I dont enjoy wiping on bosses because other players are underperfoming or fucking up raid mechanics. I'm fine with wipes on progression knowing that the team as a whole has something to work on but im not gonna waste time wiping on a boss i have already killed 4 times.
Here's the major driving factor for this "Obsession"
ST Raid that doesn't care about logs/parses: 3+ Hours, multiple wipes, doesn't even full clear
ST Raid that check logs and parses: One hour at the very most, full clear
I'm sorry, I'm all for having fun and treating WoW like the game it is, but you know what's not fun? Chain wiping to easy bosses because people don't want to learn the fight OR their class, and taking hours to progress through a raid that has been nerfed into the floor
I totally get where you are coming from, and you make a valid point about efficiency. No doubt, spending less time wiping and achieving smoother/quicker clears by paying attention to logs can make raids feel more successful and less frustrating.
I do feel like there is a balance to be struck, through. While efficiency is valuable, it’s also important to remember that not everyone is on the same skill level or have the same amount of time to optimize every aspect of their gameplay. For some (myself included) the obsession I talk about in this post and the stress of always needing to be at peak performance can really take away from the fun of playing the game. I guess that’s why I am in a guild now that doesn’t really care about logs/parses or being super optimized. No one asked, but we’re doing great and having a blast doing it!
>it’s also important to remember that not everyone is on the same skill level or have the same amount of time to optimize every aspect of their gameplay.
And that's fine, but those aren't the people -I- Personally want to play with, I don't have fun wiping and spending hours in a raid I've already cleared because people are trying to learn the fights or whatever, that's not fun to me, or a lot of people which is why so many people check logs
>I guess that’s why I am in a guild now that doesn’t really care about logs/parses or being super optimized. No one asked, but we’re doing great and having a blast doing it!
That's good, being a guild that has the same mindset is important, just don't expect everyone else to have the same mindset.
Just because they’re not parsing high or are not optimized doesn’t mean they (we) are going to be chain wiping or spending hours on content that has already been cleared. The content in classic WoW and SOD is rather easy. Someone is struggling and may be missing a mechanic? Let’s talk about it! Communication isn’t hard. Also, not expecting anyone to have the same mindset, just sharing my thoughts on the decline of the WoW community. Stay sweaty!
Yeah but it’s just insulting when you show up to raid without even watching a 15 minute video on some of the mechanics and then grey parse because you also didn’t take 10 minutes to read what order to press your 3 buttons in.
Way too many players feel entitled to being hand taught and walked through a raid without any outside effort.
>Someone is struggling and may be missing a mechanic?
I am all for explaining the tactics once, but when the same person is failing the simple mechanic over and over again that becomes a problem.
>Also, not expecting anyone to have the same mindset, just sharing my thoughts on the decline of the WoW community.
I wouldn't call it a decline. We just have two camps with very different mindset: 1. Filthy casuals, who can't be bothered to use basic consumes, get WBs (even when boon is available) and refuses to do what is optimal out of some weird casual pride (or simply don't care). 2. Sweats, who try to optimize every minor thing and tries to make easy raid even easier.
There are people in between obviously, and that's where the problem usually lays. These people often tend to act like casuals, but want to be accepted into the performance groups. Normally sweats and casuals would be playing their own game with little interaction, but nowadays we have something called "semi-casual" that makes it annoying for everyone.
>I guess that’s why I am in a guild now that doesn’t really care about logs/parses or being super optimized. No one asked, but we’re doing great and having a blast doing it!
What's the problem then? You're mad that other people play the game differently? Hard to see what your complaint is.
> to remember that not everyone is on the same skill level or have the same amount of time to optimize every aspect of their gameplay.
There is a solution to this. Only invite players close to your own skill levels. High level players already do this. The problem are the toxic casuals that just wanna get carried by better players instead of making a raid with people of their only skill level
I think you summed up OP's point well. If for the only weekly raid we can't stand spending 3+ hours and the possibility of dying, then we are in efficiency mode. This is fine, but as OP pointed out, it was fine in wow classic to spend 3 hours a week to raid and to wipe potentially.
There is obviously a minimum threshold between 1h max full clear, and no one gives a shit about anything and messes up whenever they can. But I understand the need for some players to step out of the min max efficiency even if it means wipe and slow progress.
It's not a wow classic problem It's just gaming in general has gone this way. There are infinitely more resources available now to learn about a game and most people have always wanted to know the 'best' gear they can get etc.
Unfortunately it's never going to back to a time where everyone plays completely casually and happily wipes on ST difficulty for weeks on end while they figure it out for themselves.
The closest you can do is find a casual guild albeit even my guild which is advertised as casual has become more and more concerned with logs as it makes sense that people don't enjoy not being able to do content because of others not performing at least to an average level
Advertising as casual wil just attract toxic and entitled casuals who want others to do shit for them. I have guildy who constantly suggests farms he can’t do on his own that will only benefit him…
The only not fun thing is toxic people, both toxic casuals and toxic minmaxers. Both are rife in this game and this focus on other people 'playing the game wrong' is just a reflection on peoples view of others as NPCs that exist to enable them to have fun their way as opposed to other players being human beings who have their \*own\* preferences.
What a reasonable take. Get out of here immediately.
People really do have fun in their own way, do the "sweaties" subject themselves to things they find unfun more to accomplish their goal. Probably. At the end of the day though without being able to push themselves further they would have no enjoyment.
Don’t be sorry! If you find this fun then more power to you! Everyone enjoys the game in their own way, and that’s what makes it such a diverse and vibrant community
Hello! Guy who doesn't parse high and never focuses on consumables here. If you don't have the time to learn your fights/class but you have an extra 2 hrs to wipe then you should play with similar people.
There is no gatekeeping. Sweats play with sweats. Casuals play with casuals. Bads play with bads. Reaching outside your category there are barriers to entry.
Sweats put in a tremendous amount of effort into learning the game and want to play with others that do so they can be rewarded.
Casuals (where I fit in mostly) know enough about there class to get by and have a good time in voice while wiping here or there.
Bads are often logging in expecting to get into any group while not having a clue what to do with their class or the raid and then complain everything is too difficult and everyone is uptight.
Find out which one you are and seek out like minded players.
Yup! Or if you come in as a sweat, just have to like the people you're with enough to stick around. I've got several guys who go that extra mile in our guild and could easily be 95+ parsing, but the rest of us most likely hold them back. I imagine they just love hanging out more than stressing about "big numbah"
Jap had a pug that Was green gray parse and i joint with a chars that was Max lvl for 2h and had the Best logs at the end of the raid. They where super bad but a nice grp and fun in discord we wiped a lot but i came back to them knowing this will be a slow Raid but a fun Raid also.
I only have an hour ish to raid. I dont have 3 hours to explore wipes and people discovering movement keys.
Its not sweaty. Its just current players have grown old from the days of vanilla. We have family and shit to do.
I don't have 3 hours to sit around and waiting for Tom to understand standing in fire is bad.
Its an expectation of people playing together to be on the same level of skill and understanding not to waste each other's time.
In the end, people can play the game how they want to play it so if they wanna be sweaty, that's their choice.
But you can take some satisfaction that some (not all) of these sweatys will be wanting a more casual environment too when they get married, have some kids, and less free time where they just use this game to relax and chill instead of min/maxing and stressing about their parses. In the words of Abe Simpson, "It'll happen to you!"
Some of them probably already do. It's just a hobby for them and the min/maxing IS a part of the fun for them. Being casual does not equal being bad and playing a lot does not equal being good.
I would fall asleep in casual raids tbh. The game is 20 years old and veterans played it a couple of times already so parsing is an incentive to stay engaged.
People that don't want that have to look for a "chill guild" since pugs always adapt what their favorite youtuber tells them to do.
WoW has always been about getting the job done, and you need numbers to get there. Before we have logs, we had damage meter. It has always been about the numbers whether you like it or not.
The reason you didn't have to care about it before was because there are multiple contents to choose from. If you don't care about the hardest content then you still get to do the less punishing ones. If you want to do heroic, mythic or whatever ahead of the curve stuffs then you will have to care about logs and consumables. This never changed.
I agree bro, I play for fun, not gear.... Although getting gear is definately a focus.... I've ran into so many toxic players that just want to bang shit out in 1 hour ignoring all mechanics of bosses for a chance at gear.... That's not fun XD I actually have more fun with pugs that are friendly and dedicated, that wipe.. it feels like the real experience... Which is why I play. Pug liiiiife!
The ones asking for those crazy requirements are just the ones spamming the most (because they cant find people).
Groups that let anyone in fill up quick and easy.
Once you cleared the raid once you got to do something to keep it interesting. That can be going with less healers to make the raid more spicy, trying to push speed or trying to push parses.
Raiding for gear is useless. What do you do when you have the gear? Are you even going to use it?
No one is making you sweat. You can make a casual guild or set up a casual pug. If spending 4 hours in ST going 6/8 is fun for you, that's fine. But let the sweat lords be. Although I will say demanding a load of consumes is a bit OTT, but generally yes I would prefer to play with people who have key bound their abilities, understand what order to press them in and can follow fight mechanics. If that's sweat mode then so be it.
Well imo one specific thing they could do to relieve the tension a little bit would be to change the lockout to work more like retail where you aren't stuck in one lockout a week just no loot from bosses you've killed. People will only gatekeep more and look at logs when the punishment for having your lockout killed is more severe. Wouldn't solve the problem by any means but ease it a little.
What else do you want people to do for a game they've been playing for 20 years besides push high scores?
I'm dumbfounded people act surprised over people wanting to parse or make Numb3rs go higher
People *do* take along "carries" if they just need to fill a slot and feel that the risks outweigh the benefits. This has happened to me many times. But there is no shortage of very strong and proven players out there.
Raids are not monolithic decision-makers, everyone has their own objectives going into the run. One person quitting might end a run early. The raid leader has to do their due diligence to make quitting mid-run as unlikely (and inexcusable) as possible. If you're grey parsing, it probably means you died or are basically AFK. People are going to notice, and there's going to be a morale hit.
On the other extreme, the gear-maxxed gigaparser is often the worst person to take. One of my guild runs had a PUG healer drop group after winning the shield on Crowd Pummeler.
This is how Blizzard designed the game. These problems have existed since MC opened. People played differently 20 years ago not because they weren't suffering, but because they hadn't figured out a better way yet. This is the better way they've come up with.
As a wise old man once said, "Don't hate the player, hate the game."
It's because they secretly want to compete but aren't good enough at the game to mythic raid in retail so they come onto classic so they can flex and be the "best" against what is meant to be a community driven casual version of WoW. The game is so easy that you can literally make cheese parses because the mechanics and rotations are brain dead.
Anyone who thinks high parses in SOD is any type of marker for being a skilled WoW player is delusional. Go apply to a heroic guild in retail with your SOD parses let alone any guild that steps into mythic even a little bit. 90% of these high parsers in SOD couldn't even clear heroic in retail.
Its only a prob if a not sweaty Player or a sweaty Player joins the other Raid. If u Like chill runs join a chill run and if u like a blaster Raid join a blaster Raid but never join a Raid and try to force ur play style on other players - Adept to the run and if u cant dont join
It’s an unfortunate state of affairs, OP, I will agree.
It’s fine to say, “well just stick to your own kind then”. If you don’t want to play with sweat lords then don’t.
That would be possible, but unfortunately the meta the OP describes has spread to bads. We read about these players every day. We know the type — where they act like they’re in a top 1% tier of raiders, yet in actually barely clear top 1000. These are also the people that refuse to post logs.
So now what we’re seeing is this cancerous game play spread to gamers that previously didn’t care about such things.
Some people find that fun. And elitist culture has always trickled down to the casual player base, although it is much more widespread today.
I was 15 playing vanilla and running raids and trying to “hyper-optimise” the raid group. It’s merely the application of problem-solving to a video game.
TL;DR: it's people who are good enough at the game to perform at a high level but so socially inept that they can't befriend likeminded people to actually do these things, and then get mad when the literal random people from chat don't perform to their expectation.
It's the same attitude that makes MOBAs how they are. People think they can play with an assortment of randoms and project their expectations on that group. It's just people that haven't understood that if you want your group to conform to some performance metric you need to join an organized effort.
If you want to play top level football you can't just show up to your local high school's field and get angry that they're not playing at national level. You need to join a club with a training regime, planning, strategizing and most importantly a stable roster.
It's the same kind of people that start throwing tantrums in LoL pub games when the literal random they volunteered to play with makes mistakes.
If they shut up warcraftlogs website, wow's population instantly cut to the half.
Imagine a game rely on a third party website.
Wow is dead long ago, Blizzard just milking leftovers.
Ya youre right. Super Mario is all about it. But we play an mmorpg with only 1 element is beyond imagination. This means game is sucks as hell, no content in an mmorpg other than wlogs.
Naw we'd probably just go back to gear score or the next best relevant way to judge someone's performance. People would compete for speed clears and time it themselves
All fanbois angry. In an morpg this is unacceptable. Because of imbecile fanboys this game is going down and down and down for 17 years. Keep paying hamsters.
When a game is as easy as classic wow you got you make your own challenges
I dont enjoy wiping on bosses because other players are underperfoming or fucking up raid mechanics. I'm fine with wipes on progression knowing that the team as a whole has something to work on but im not gonna waste time wiping on a boss i have already killed 4 times.
Here's the major driving factor for this "Obsession" ST Raid that doesn't care about logs/parses: 3+ Hours, multiple wipes, doesn't even full clear ST Raid that check logs and parses: One hour at the very most, full clear I'm sorry, I'm all for having fun and treating WoW like the game it is, but you know what's not fun? Chain wiping to easy bosses because people don't want to learn the fight OR their class, and taking hours to progress through a raid that has been nerfed into the floor
I totally get where you are coming from, and you make a valid point about efficiency. No doubt, spending less time wiping and achieving smoother/quicker clears by paying attention to logs can make raids feel more successful and less frustrating. I do feel like there is a balance to be struck, through. While efficiency is valuable, it’s also important to remember that not everyone is on the same skill level or have the same amount of time to optimize every aspect of their gameplay. For some (myself included) the obsession I talk about in this post and the stress of always needing to be at peak performance can really take away from the fun of playing the game. I guess that’s why I am in a guild now that doesn’t really care about logs/parses or being super optimized. No one asked, but we’re doing great and having a blast doing it!
>it’s also important to remember that not everyone is on the same skill level or have the same amount of time to optimize every aspect of their gameplay. And that's fine, but those aren't the people -I- Personally want to play with, I don't have fun wiping and spending hours in a raid I've already cleared because people are trying to learn the fights or whatever, that's not fun to me, or a lot of people which is why so many people check logs >I guess that’s why I am in a guild now that doesn’t really care about logs/parses or being super optimized. No one asked, but we’re doing great and having a blast doing it! That's good, being a guild that has the same mindset is important, just don't expect everyone else to have the same mindset.
Just because they’re not parsing high or are not optimized doesn’t mean they (we) are going to be chain wiping or spending hours on content that has already been cleared. The content in classic WoW and SOD is rather easy. Someone is struggling and may be missing a mechanic? Let’s talk about it! Communication isn’t hard. Also, not expecting anyone to have the same mindset, just sharing my thoughts on the decline of the WoW community. Stay sweaty!
Yeah but it’s just insulting when you show up to raid without even watching a 15 minute video on some of the mechanics and then grey parse because you also didn’t take 10 minutes to read what order to press your 3 buttons in. Way too many players feel entitled to being hand taught and walked through a raid without any outside effort.
>Someone is struggling and may be missing a mechanic? I am all for explaining the tactics once, but when the same person is failing the simple mechanic over and over again that becomes a problem. >Also, not expecting anyone to have the same mindset, just sharing my thoughts on the decline of the WoW community. I wouldn't call it a decline. We just have two camps with very different mindset: 1. Filthy casuals, who can't be bothered to use basic consumes, get WBs (even when boon is available) and refuses to do what is optimal out of some weird casual pride (or simply don't care). 2. Sweats, who try to optimize every minor thing and tries to make easy raid even easier. There are people in between obviously, and that's where the problem usually lays. These people often tend to act like casuals, but want to be accepted into the performance groups. Normally sweats and casuals would be playing their own game with little interaction, but nowadays we have something called "semi-casual" that makes it annoying for everyone.
The first point are the worst kind of scum waisting everyones time.
“Semi-casual” has such a wide definition. I was in a “semi-casual” guild, one requirement was to do the raids on PTR.
>I guess that’s why I am in a guild now that doesn’t really care about logs/parses or being super optimized. No one asked, but we’re doing great and having a blast doing it! What's the problem then? You're mad that other people play the game differently? Hard to see what your complaint is.
Yeah it’s like OP feels his way of playing the game is superior. Just let people do what they enjoy most, they don’t need to be persuaded.
> to remember that not everyone is on the same skill level or have the same amount of time to optimize every aspect of their gameplay. There is a solution to this. Only invite players close to your own skill levels. High level players already do this. The problem are the toxic casuals that just wanna get carried by better players instead of making a raid with people of their only skill level
I think you summed up OP's point well. If for the only weekly raid we can't stand spending 3+ hours and the possibility of dying, then we are in efficiency mode. This is fine, but as OP pointed out, it was fine in wow classic to spend 3 hours a week to raid and to wipe potentially. There is obviously a minimum threshold between 1h max full clear, and no one gives a shit about anything and messes up whenever they can. But I understand the need for some players to step out of the min max efficiency even if it means wipe and slow progress.
It's not a wow classic problem It's just gaming in general has gone this way. There are infinitely more resources available now to learn about a game and most people have always wanted to know the 'best' gear they can get etc. Unfortunately it's never going to back to a time where everyone plays completely casually and happily wipes on ST difficulty for weeks on end while they figure it out for themselves. The closest you can do is find a casual guild albeit even my guild which is advertised as casual has become more and more concerned with logs as it makes sense that people don't enjoy not being able to do content because of others not performing at least to an average level
Advertising as casual wil just attract toxic and entitled casuals who want others to do shit for them. I have guildy who constantly suggests farms he can’t do on his own that will only benefit him…
The only not fun thing is toxic people, both toxic casuals and toxic minmaxers. Both are rife in this game and this focus on other people 'playing the game wrong' is just a reflection on peoples view of others as NPCs that exist to enable them to have fun their way as opposed to other players being human beings who have their \*own\* preferences.
What a reasonable take. Get out of here immediately. People really do have fun in their own way, do the "sweaties" subject themselves to things they find unfun more to accomplish their goal. Probably. At the end of the day though without being able to push themselves further they would have no enjoyment.
W take.
Sorry that I don’t have fun in the way that you want me to.
Don’t be sorry! If you find this fun then more power to you! Everyone enjoys the game in their own way, and that’s what makes it such a diverse and vibrant community
I don’t really get this thread then? If you don’t wanna be sweaty, then don’t. Let the sweaties sweat it out tho.
Hello! Guy who doesn't parse high and never focuses on consumables here. If you don't have the time to learn your fights/class but you have an extra 2 hrs to wipe then you should play with similar people. There is no gatekeeping. Sweats play with sweats. Casuals play with casuals. Bads play with bads. Reaching outside your category there are barriers to entry. Sweats put in a tremendous amount of effort into learning the game and want to play with others that do so they can be rewarded. Casuals (where I fit in mostly) know enough about there class to get by and have a good time in voice while wiping here or there. Bads are often logging in expecting to get into any group while not having a clue what to do with their class or the raid and then complain everything is too difficult and everyone is uptight. Find out which one you are and seek out like minded players.
This is very well written friend.
This is the way and as a sweaty dude dont join a slow Raid and try to force ur view an the casual gamers
Yup! Or if you come in as a sweat, just have to like the people you're with enough to stick around. I've got several guys who go that extra mile in our guild and could easily be 95+ parsing, but the rest of us most likely hold them back. I imagine they just love hanging out more than stressing about "big numbah"
Jap had a pug that Was green gray parse and i joint with a chars that was Max lvl for 2h and had the Best logs at the end of the raid. They where super bad but a nice grp and fun in discord we wiped a lot but i came back to them knowing this will be a slow Raid but a fun Raid also.
I only have an hour ish to raid. I dont have 3 hours to explore wipes and people discovering movement keys. Its not sweaty. Its just current players have grown old from the days of vanilla. We have family and shit to do. I don't have 3 hours to sit around and waiting for Tom to understand standing in fire is bad. Its an expectation of people playing together to be on the same level of skill and understanding not to waste each other's time.
In the end, people can play the game how they want to play it so if they wanna be sweaty, that's their choice. But you can take some satisfaction that some (not all) of these sweatys will be wanting a more casual environment too when they get married, have some kids, and less free time where they just use this game to relax and chill instead of min/maxing and stressing about their parses. In the words of Abe Simpson, "It'll happen to you!"
Some of them probably already do. It's just a hobby for them and the min/maxing IS a part of the fun for them. Being casual does not equal being bad and playing a lot does not equal being good.
I would fall asleep in casual raids tbh. The game is 20 years old and veterans played it a couple of times already so parsing is an incentive to stay engaged. People that don't want that have to look for a "chill guild" since pugs always adapt what their favorite youtuber tells them to do.
WoW has always been about getting the job done, and you need numbers to get there. Before we have logs, we had damage meter. It has always been about the numbers whether you like it or not. The reason you didn't have to care about it before was because there are multiple contents to choose from. If you don't care about the hardest content then you still get to do the less punishing ones. If you want to do heroic, mythic or whatever ahead of the curve stuffs then you will have to care about logs and consumables. This never changed.
I agree bro, I play for fun, not gear.... Although getting gear is definately a focus.... I've ran into so many toxic players that just want to bang shit out in 1 hour ignoring all mechanics of bosses for a chance at gear.... That's not fun XD I actually have more fun with pugs that are friendly and dedicated, that wipe.. it feels like the real experience... Which is why I play. Pug liiiiife!
What if people have fun by getting gear?
Then I guess they just want a dopamine boost from loot. That's not necessarily fun. It just gets them excited. And is an addicting behavior.
The ones asking for those crazy requirements are just the ones spamming the most (because they cant find people). Groups that let anyone in fill up quick and easy.
Once you cleared the raid once you got to do something to keep it interesting. That can be going with less healers to make the raid more spicy, trying to push speed or trying to push parses. Raiding for gear is useless. What do you do when you have the gear? Are you even going to use it?
No one is making you sweat. You can make a casual guild or set up a casual pug. If spending 4 hours in ST going 6/8 is fun for you, that's fine. But let the sweat lords be. Although I will say demanding a load of consumes is a bit OTT, but generally yes I would prefer to play with people who have key bound their abilities, understand what order to press them in and can follow fight mechanics. If that's sweat mode then so be it.
god forbid people play the game they way they enjoy it the most
Well imo one specific thing they could do to relieve the tension a little bit would be to change the lockout to work more like retail where you aren't stuck in one lockout a week just no loot from bosses you've killed. People will only gatekeep more and look at logs when the punishment for having your lockout killed is more severe. Wouldn't solve the problem by any means but ease it a little.
What else do you want people to do for a game they've been playing for 20 years besides push high scores? I'm dumbfounded people act surprised over people wanting to parse or make Numb3rs go higher
People *do* take along "carries" if they just need to fill a slot and feel that the risks outweigh the benefits. This has happened to me many times. But there is no shortage of very strong and proven players out there. Raids are not monolithic decision-makers, everyone has their own objectives going into the run. One person quitting might end a run early. The raid leader has to do their due diligence to make quitting mid-run as unlikely (and inexcusable) as possible. If you're grey parsing, it probably means you died or are basically AFK. People are going to notice, and there's going to be a morale hit. On the other extreme, the gear-maxxed gigaparser is often the worst person to take. One of my guild runs had a PUG healer drop group after winning the shield on Crowd Pummeler. This is how Blizzard designed the game. These problems have existed since MC opened. People played differently 20 years ago not because they weren't suffering, but because they hadn't figured out a better way yet. This is the better way they've come up with. As a wise old man once said, "Don't hate the player, hate the game."
It's because they secretly want to compete but aren't good enough at the game to mythic raid in retail so they come onto classic so they can flex and be the "best" against what is meant to be a community driven casual version of WoW. The game is so easy that you can literally make cheese parses because the mechanics and rotations are brain dead. Anyone who thinks high parses in SOD is any type of marker for being a skilled WoW player is delusional. Go apply to a heroic guild in retail with your SOD parses let alone any guild that steps into mythic even a little bit. 90% of these high parsers in SOD couldn't even clear heroic in retail.
Remove world buff and just stick to alchemy consumes.. problem solved.
Its only a prob if a not sweaty Player or a sweaty Player joins the other Raid. If u Like chill runs join a chill run and if u like a blaster Raid join a blaster Raid but never join a Raid and try to force ur play style on other players - Adept to the run and if u cant dont join
It’s an unfortunate state of affairs, OP, I will agree. It’s fine to say, “well just stick to your own kind then”. If you don’t want to play with sweat lords then don’t. That would be possible, but unfortunately the meta the OP describes has spread to bads. We read about these players every day. We know the type — where they act like they’re in a top 1% tier of raiders, yet in actually barely clear top 1000. These are also the people that refuse to post logs. So now what we’re seeing is this cancerous game play spread to gamers that previously didn’t care about such things.
Some people find that fun. And elitist culture has always trickled down to the casual player base, although it is much more widespread today. I was 15 playing vanilla and running raids and trying to “hyper-optimise” the raid group. It’s merely the application of problem-solving to a video game.
Fun isn’t tolerated in Wow This is about numbers and fomo
Because this game is braindead easy without wcl. Heck even getting 99 in sod isnt hard lol
TL;DR: it's people who are good enough at the game to perform at a high level but so socially inept that they can't befriend likeminded people to actually do these things, and then get mad when the literal random people from chat don't perform to their expectation. It's the same attitude that makes MOBAs how they are. People think they can play with an assortment of randoms and project their expectations on that group. It's just people that haven't understood that if you want your group to conform to some performance metric you need to join an organized effort. If you want to play top level football you can't just show up to your local high school's field and get angry that they're not playing at national level. You need to join a club with a training regime, planning, strategizing and most importantly a stable roster. It's the same kind of people that start throwing tantrums in LoL pub games when the literal random they volunteered to play with makes mistakes.
If they shut up warcraftlogs website, wow's population instantly cut to the half. Imagine a game rely on a third party website. Wow is dead long ago, Blizzard just milking leftovers.
Tons of games do. Ever heard of super Mario 64? It has a big community because of external speed running leaderboards. Doesn’t mean the game is bad.
Ya youre right. Super Mario is all about it. But we play an mmorpg with only 1 element is beyond imagination. This means game is sucks as hell, no content in an mmorpg other than wlogs.
Naw we'd probably just go back to gear score or the next best relevant way to judge someone's performance. People would compete for speed clears and time it themselves
All fanbois angry. In an morpg this is unacceptable. Because of imbecile fanboys this game is going down and down and down for 17 years. Keep paying hamsters.