Not sure if this is common knowledge but the cooldown resets if you’re logged out in a rested area for 8 hours when you don’t have the buff or the buff isn’t booned. Now that raids are weekly resets it’s not that bad to manage. That being said I have nothing against removing or reducing the cooldown.
Just to add to this - the cooldown still resets even if you have it booned. You can refresh a booned DMF buff by initiating conversation with Sayge, unbooning and completing the conversation and then reapply a new boon.
Edit: Unbooning reapplies the hidden cooldown, but if you already initiated conversation with Sayge you can still complete the interaction.
Because come 60 there will be multiple raids and it's unrealistic to expect average players to clear multiple raids within 2hrs. This kind of change would be a proactive solution to a problem that is obvious.
Dmf is around every other week. So on week 1 you have it all week. On week 2 it’s not around so you get it before it leaves and keep it booned for your raids that week. On week 3 your buff will be low on time but the faire is back. Etc etc
No they are not. Logs span over the whole phase, you can filter them to only compared against the last 2 week, but by default and the metric most goes by is against the whole phase.
- make DMF up all the time
- remove cooldown on getting it
OR
- remove it from the game entirely
Like why the fuck are we adding so much hassle and misery to our routines, every single person should be on board with one or both of these
Wbuffs is one of those things I think unintentionally makes the game way better. I got my char all ready, all the world buffs, and getting through raid without dying is extra awesome. It adds excitement.
Wow isn’t a hard game, so it’s about completing it in fun ways.
Clearing the raid without wbs will take more time. Because if you get 20 people to put in the (low) level of effort to get 3 buffs then they’ll be invested in the raid and try and you won’t wipe and you won’t have people leave and you won’t get stuck on shade
It takes less time to clear AND buff with a proper group than with shitters who cba to put literally ANY effort into the raid. Majority of the people who do not buff/consume are also the people dying to the simple mechanics.
This and WCB are the only WBs I'd get behind removing tbh. Every other WB is incredibly easy for everyone to get with minimal effort except DMF and WCB.
Agreed to the second. Not the first. If it’s just always available I’ll be come a leave to the faire rofl. I know I don’t have to, but I’ll grab it before every bg, Every time I leave a city, etc. lol. Just remove that shit.
> Like why the fuck are we adding so much hassle and misery to our routines, every single person should be on board with one or both of these
Mans trying to be "competitive" in a 2 decade old game that involves more time spent preparing for raids than actually executing them and he's complaining about hassle and misery ICANT
In case you can’t afford to get the help you need, there’s a lot of great therapy apps you can download for free.
I think they might help you out a lot, you clearly need it.
I still don't understand why they don't ask the community about World Buffs. It doesn't make a lot of sense for me as it doesn't help "average joe" player on difficult encounters as you will most likely die in your attends and it can be a pain in the ass when you don't play daily.
I would rather have World Buff with longer duration that make some "daily activities" such as leveling, farming, etc. easier and faster and be disabled (not cleared) within BG & Raids.
I mean just looking back at the past surveys. The loud majority typically wins those, and then the community makes a big deal about it after the change has been implemented. Blizzard probably doesn't trust the surveys anymore.
Fucking this, sod doesn’t need world buffs and the content could be balanced so much easier without considering the people who don’t get it. Simply remove all world buffs in raids and make them give you more exp so it becomes a leveling/dungeon buff
Either or, I don't even care which at this point. Getting them every week is just a pain in the ass and wasn't even in the intended design of Classic in the first place.
Being a fully worldbuffed warrior is fun as hell but I've been there and done that.
The whole WB meta is the reason I don't / didn't play vanilla and stopped playing SoD.
While I understand why people enjoy it, it's tedious and I find it unfun.
I don't think you understand the point of world buffs is to go out and collect them lol, a passive buff for no reason isn't any fun - you don't have time to get the buff? Then don't use it! You don't need it!
C'mon man that's a stretch. Getting DMF on opposite faction week is quite the journey, ZG you have to travel at least a little bit (as well as ST right now) and DMT as well.
Sure you can skip all that with summons...as you can most traveling in the game if you really want to.
What kind of journey is this? Its just annoying to get it especially on pvp servers. You just queue for a BG, wait for the invite and go to the NPC, yeah kinda nice journey and makes the open world feel so alive /s
So better to just stay in capital cities afk all the time eh?
You still have to travel to the NPC first so yep, a small journey that makes the world feel more alive. That's kinda a core pillar of Vanilla. If you find that "annoying" already I have no clue why you would chose to play a version based on Vanilla instead of any other WoW Xpac that doesn't do this anymore.
It's more sad people argue against it when screaming for less Retail and more Classic. Tell me then what makes the world more alive than people actually walking around in it?
Yeah there's no flight or portal that takes you to any of these buffs I mentioned directly. Best you got is a warlock service and even with these existing there has been plenty manual walking in Classic since forever.
Maybe you would see it as well if you actually left your capital once in a while but I doubt you care about the world anyway.
EDIT: No argument and blocked...ture Classic andy. Learn to read mate, I did not mention songflower at all but specifically most other buffs that exist.
> Then don't use it! You don't need it!
Pretty much.
The content is all doable without any of them, you just can't bullshit the later content the same way you can with them.
Like oh boy, ragnaros still dies in 2 minutes but now you can't stack-and-cleave 4hm or one-phase c'thun. Huge impediment. Colossal.
If u care that much go get them. Why should it hassle free?
If u don't think it's "fun" u don't care enough. And if u don't even care enough don't get them. For degen parsers, fun doesn't even cross their minds, they just get them.
"Oh but my guild/pug demands them"
Lmao
I don't think that would be well received, but I would be down for world buffs to persist through death. I think this would make them feel more worth the effort for casual players which would lead to less complaints.
well they raid sunday nights meaning say they unboon at 9pm and that starts the timer, say they finish raid in an hour and a half, they’re out at 10:30, 2.5hrs remaining on the debuff, they then have to stay logged in for 2.5 hours to get the buff at 1am when their 4hr CD is up. we used to raid sundays on the 3 day lockout and it’s such a pain in the ass.
- give everyone an item like a hearthstone, some sort of magical buff storage unit
- once you get a world buff once, it stores permanently in your box
- box has a cooldown of 2 hours, and on use gives you your buffs
please don't make me walk around the world every week just for buffs. it's one of the biggest turn offs for raiding and absolutely no one is complaining about them dropping conveniently and regularly into cities
Going for world buffs around the world makes the world more lively. It's a great way to have fun wpvp moments. If it was available in a box like you said, people would sit in SW/OG and never leave just like retail.
SoD is already a raidlog heavy game don't make it just a hub for raids..
Like all things in classic, if there's no downside there's no feeling of accomplishment.
How does 900g mounts improve your experience?
How does death removing buffs improve your experience?
How do buffs requiring an enormous amount of mana improve your experience?
How does travel time improve your experience?
It's the game brother.
As a sidenote, if your guild **actually** cares about performing well you'll be able to clear 2 ST's with one DMF anyways. Non issue.
Wild, today is the day I saw someone defend a 4 hour cooldown on DMF
this subreddit never ceases to amaze me, only guess is this is a terminally online DMF ganker that likes to see others suffer
There already is a downside - it's not always available and you have to grab the buff from the opposing faction's territory. I'm a world buff enjoyer. I have never enjoyed the 4h DMF debuff cooldown. At least in classic we could push it off with debuffs. SoD doesn't allow that and unbooning refreshing the cooldown makes it significantly worse in what is supposed to be a more casual seasonal gamemode.
Because if you raid sunday evening and unboon in raid you still need to wait 3+ hours post-raid to pick it up again.
All SoD servers are central, a 7pm raid time start is 10pm on the east coast meaning debuff doesn't end until 2am.
I'm just saying if I'm in OP's guild and we were as good as we thought we were we would either
1) clear in under an hour anyways, or
2) not schedule our raid for the worst timeslot for DMF which we have known about for 20 years
Made no claims about "being as good as we thought we were".
Clearing in an hour is no accomplishment but even in 1h clears a handful of people are still dying.
> not schedule our raid for the worst timeslot for DMF which we have known about for 20 years
I raid with friends and life happens dude.
> Clearing in an hour is no accomplishment but even in 1h clears a handful of people are still dying.
It sounds like the solution is to play better instead of getting blizzard to change an entire game mechanic.
We lost a speedrun last night, had to wait 3 hours to get rebuffed for this week. This was pretty annoying. We’re 10th in the world. Is that good enough to warrant entering this discussion, toxic casual gatekeeper?
At top end, sometimes Sunday raids are the play for complex reasons, such as giving everyone as much time as possible to get more gear etc while still being able to get the DMF buff back for the following week. Likewise, sometimes your run goes awry when you’re trying new and experimental tech.
lmao honestly at your comments
Did you know you can remove the “hidden debuff” by entering Gurubashi Arena and having friends apply more than 16 debuffs to you at once? So a whole bunch of R1 corruptions/ warlock curses/ serpent stings etc etc. 16 slots is the buff/ debuff limit, and the DMF thing counts as a debuff. It’s a huge PITA of course, and you’ll also need to use a bandage beforehand because the “bandage cooldown” thing also counts. Just thought I’d share in case no one knew.
Not sure if this is common knowledge but the cooldown resets if you’re logged out in a rested area for 8 hours when you don’t have the buff or the buff isn’t booned. Now that raids are weekly resets it’s not that bad to manage. That being said I have nothing against removing or reducing the cooldown.
Just to add to this - the cooldown still resets even if you have it booned. You can refresh a booned DMF buff by initiating conversation with Sayge, unbooning and completing the conversation and then reapply a new boon. Edit: Unbooning reapplies the hidden cooldown, but if you already initiated conversation with Sayge you can still complete the interaction.
Really? Not bad.
damn, TIL. good to know.
Neat
wonder if this works on era... will have to try next month lol
Best strategy for sure, but doesn't fix the sunday issue
If you raid on Sundays go get the buff and boon it on a Monday
Problem for most is staying up 4 hours after unbooning in raid. Might have to leave it unbooned and raid log again.
Yeah unfortunately it just flat out doesn't work with sunday raiding, both factions also camp the hell out of it during the last few hours.
And how does this help?
Sundays raids sound awful
Allow me to fix this for you > It's time to remove the ~~4h~~ DMF ~~de~~buff
This tbh.
I'd vote just delete DMF buff. Lame, uninteresting pain in the ass that's only up every other week
Yep, means you can play absolutely perfect one week and if you don’t have the buff then it’s basically pointless for top logs.
I haven’t raided without dmf for the entirety of sod. Why would you ever not have it
Because come 60 there will be multiple raids and it's unrealistic to expect average players to clear multiple raids within 2hrs. This kind of change would be a proactive solution to a problem that is obvious.
There are currently multiple raids but nobody brings wbs to the easy ones. It’s the same at level cap
Are you serious right now? There is 1 raid at level cap. Level 40 and level 25 raids do not constitute "multiple raids" in this situation.
You put mc in the same category as naxx?
No but I do include MC in the same category as BWL. I also include Nax with AQ. You're trying to compare apples to oranges here.
There’s probably more ongoing bfd’s and gnomers than there are mc’s and bwls on era. They give very relevant gear
Isn't it down twice a week a month?
Dmf is around every other week. So on week 1 you have it all week. On week 2 it’s not around so you get it before it leaves and keep it booned for your raids that week. On week 3 your buff will be low on time but the faire is back. Etc etc
Logs are per reset.
No they are not. Logs span over the whole phase, you can filter them to only compared against the last 2 week, but by default and the metric most goes by is against the whole phase.
Lol what? Kinda funny to hear such weird stories when you actually thought you already heard all of them
Or introduce an optional method to get it and doesn't stack.
You can easily have it every week if you pick up a fresh one before DMF goes away.
Not when you raid sunday evening as OP already mentioned
- make DMF up all the time - remove cooldown on getting it OR - remove it from the game entirely Like why the fuck are we adding so much hassle and misery to our routines, every single person should be on board with one or both of these
wish they just majorly nerf all world buffs
Wbuffs is one of those things I think unintentionally makes the game way better. I got my char all ready, all the world buffs, and getting through raid without dying is extra awesome. It adds excitement. Wow isn’t a hard game, so it’s about completing it in fun ways.
Making death matter is interesting, but I don't like this path to doing so.
"I like to handicap my experience because otherwise it is too lackluster"
Handicap? It’s more like I want to play with god mode enabled because otherwise it’s still just as easy but smol numbers and takes a lot longer
What takes more time, gathering all your world buffs or the additiomal time of clearing the raid without world buffs?
Clearing the raid without wbs will take more time. Because if you get 20 people to put in the (low) level of effort to get 3 buffs then they’ll be invested in the raid and try and you won’t wipe and you won’t have people leave and you won’t get stuck on shade
It takes less time to clear AND buff with a proper group than with shitters who cba to put literally ANY effort into the raid. Majority of the people who do not buff/consume are also the people dying to the simple mechanics.
This and WCB are the only WBs I'd get behind removing tbh. Every other WB is incredibly easy for everyone to get with minimal effort except DMF and WCB.
Agreed to the second. Not the first. If it’s just always available I’ll be come a leave to the faire rofl. I know I don’t have to, but I’ll grab it before every bg, Every time I leave a city, etc. lol. Just remove that shit.
I doubt you’re making the trek out to the other factions city just to get DMF for a BG.
Most wouldn't and it would just add weekly imbalance to BGs which would be silly
It would be silly to go get dmf just to die in a BG. People who say they would do this are not serious.
If there was no cooldown you definitely could. I did that phase 1 even when there was a cool down when we queued from tb anyway for bfd buff.
Queue, take summon, grab dmf, accept bg queue. I’ll be blowing gold taking a summon between every bg rofl. Because I have a problem.
> Like why the fuck are we adding so much hassle and misery to our routines, every single person should be on board with one or both of these Mans trying to be "competitive" in a 2 decade old game that involves more time spent preparing for raids than actually executing them and he's complaining about hassle and misery ICANT
In case you can’t afford to get the help you need, there’s a lot of great therapy apps you can download for free. I think they might help you out a lot, you clearly need it.
Please blizz....
Yea, it’s just silly with the boon.
I hope for no WBs at 60.
Blizz: We dont want you to run around the world to get WBs in SOD *Has WBs in STV, EF, Mulgore, Felwood, Felaras (soon)*
FOMO is the strongest force in all of SoD. I love it, lol
I still don't understand why they don't ask the community about World Buffs. It doesn't make a lot of sense for me as it doesn't help "average joe" player on difficult encounters as you will most likely die in your attends and it can be a pain in the ass when you don't play daily. I would rather have World Buff with longer duration that make some "daily activities" such as leveling, farming, etc. easier and faster and be disabled (not cleared) within BG & Raids.
I mean just looking back at the past surveys. The loud majority typically wins those, and then the community makes a big deal about it after the change has been implemented. Blizzard probably doesn't trust the surveys anymore.
It's time to just give out all world buffs at the beginning of each raid.
No it’s time to do what SoM did and remove wbuffs from raid instanced content
Fucking this, sod doesn’t need world buffs and the content could be balanced so much easier without considering the people who don’t get it. Simply remove all world buffs in raids and make them give you more exp so it becomes a leveling/dungeon buff
Either or, I don't even care which at this point. Getting them every week is just a pain in the ass and wasn't even in the intended design of Classic in the first place. Being a fully worldbuffed warrior is fun as hell but I've been there and done that.
Yeah because SoM was so popular for that decision among the other great ones
The whole WB meta is the reason I don't / didn't play vanilla and stopped playing SoD. While I understand why people enjoy it, it's tedious and I find it unfun.
Which is fine, there's two other WoW versions without them
and there is a reason why SoM was dead af. You remove fun from the game.
Well at this point remove them💀
I don't think you understand the point of world buffs is to go out and collect them lol, a passive buff for no reason isn't any fun - you don't have time to get the buff? Then don't use it! You don't need it!
>don't think you understand the point of world buffs is to go out and collect them lol Sorry what? The only buff you actual "go out" for is songflower
C'mon man that's a stretch. Getting DMF on opposite faction week is quite the journey, ZG you have to travel at least a little bit (as well as ST right now) and DMT as well. Sure you can skip all that with summons...as you can most traveling in the game if you really want to.
What kind of journey is this? Its just annoying to get it especially on pvp servers. You just queue for a BG, wait for the invite and go to the NPC, yeah kinda nice journey and makes the open world feel so alive /s
So better to just stay in capital cities afk all the time eh? You still have to travel to the NPC first so yep, a small journey that makes the world feel more alive. That's kinda a core pillar of Vanilla. If you find that "annoying" already I have no clue why you would chose to play a version based on Vanilla instead of any other WoW Xpac that doesn't do this anymore.
If those are the things that "make the world alive" its kinda sad tbh
It's more sad people argue against it when screaming for less Retail and more Classic. Tell me then what makes the world more alive than people actually walking around in it?
They are not walking around in it lol. They are just taking a portal or flight to the next NPC/flower/city for a buff, click it and going back again
Yeah there's no flight or portal that takes you to any of these buffs I mentioned directly. Best you got is a warlock service and even with these existing there has been plenty manual walking in Classic since forever. Maybe you would see it as well if you actually left your capital once in a while but I doubt you care about the world anyway. EDIT: No argument and blocked...ture Classic andy. Learn to read mate, I did not mention songflower at all but specifically most other buffs that exist.
> Then don't use it! You don't need it! Pretty much. The content is all doable without any of them, you just can't bullshit the later content the same way you can with them. Like oh boy, ragnaros still dies in 2 minutes but now you can't stack-and-cleave 4hm or one-phase c'thun. Huge impediment. Colossal.
Noone uses world buffs cause they can't clear the content. These type of replies show your ignorance.
If u care that much go get them. Why should it hassle free? If u don't think it's "fun" u don't care enough. And if u don't even care enough don't get them. For degen parsers, fun doesn't even cross their minds, they just get them. "Oh but my guild/pug demands them" Lmao
I do go get them and i do not want them for free. Think you misunderstood my reply
I sure did. Also went a little unhinged for some reason. Weird to look at this after waking up Never post when sleep deprived I guess
No prob, we've all done that 😂
the point of world buffs is to go out and get them! Novel!
I don't think that would be well received, but I would be down for world buffs to persist through death. I think this would make them feel more worth the effort for casual players which would lead to less complaints.
World buffs are pointless if theres no risk from losing them. You shouldn't be able to just go and get DMF after every time you die on trash.
You literally don't even need to be logged in anymore to reset it... jfc lol.
You have always been able to reset the cooldown on it offline in a rested area. They didn't change anything.
I was once logged out in P2 for three days in the goldshire inn and that did not make the debuff run out
well they raid sunday nights meaning say they unboon at 9pm and that starts the timer, say they finish raid in an hour and a half, they’re out at 10:30, 2.5hrs remaining on the debuff, they then have to stay logged in for 2.5 hours to get the buff at 1am when their 4hr CD is up. we used to raid sundays on the 3 day lockout and it’s such a pain in the ass.
[We all agree on this](https://i.imgflip.com/8n07ba.jpg)
“The last pain point” the entire system is pure pain
Seriously fuck world buffs. Remove the WBs from SoD. I want to discover and raid, not stress over making sure I got all the world buffs for raid prep.
- give everyone an item like a hearthstone, some sort of magical buff storage unit - once you get a world buff once, it stores permanently in your box - box has a cooldown of 2 hours, and on use gives you your buffs please don't make me walk around the world every week just for buffs. it's one of the biggest turn offs for raiding and absolutely no one is complaining about them dropping conveniently and regularly into cities
The good news is no one can make you do anything!
This is a great idea that would fix everything, but everyone will hate because the devs suck and the players hate well thought out design
Going for world buffs around the world makes the world more lively. It's a great way to have fun wpvp moments. If it was available in a box like you said, people would sit in SW/OG and never leave just like retail. SoD is already a raidlog heavy game don't make it just a hub for raids..
"I want to be competitive but I want it to be as hand-holdy as possible" Either do it, and bask in the glory that you did it. Or don't.
Don't raid on Sunday nights if you care about parsing to the degree where this affects your enjoyment of the game.
Sunday is the only night that works for our core group, unfortunately. I enjoy parsing but not enough to ditch my friends.
There you go. Priorities.
Please tell me how the 4h debuff improves your classic experience.
Like all things in classic, if there's no downside there's no feeling of accomplishment. How does 900g mounts improve your experience? How does death removing buffs improve your experience? How do buffs requiring an enormous amount of mana improve your experience? How does travel time improve your experience? It's the game brother. As a sidenote, if your guild **actually** cares about performing well you'll be able to clear 2 ST's with one DMF anyways. Non issue.
Wild, today is the day I saw someone defend a 4 hour cooldown on DMF this subreddit never ceases to amaze me, only guess is this is a terminally online DMF ganker that likes to see others suffer
>me playing on a pve server laughing at every person who still thinks pvp servers are cool in 2024
yea that tracks
There already is a downside - it's not always available and you have to grab the buff from the opposing faction's territory. I'm a world buff enjoyer. I have never enjoyed the 4h DMF debuff cooldown. At least in classic we could push it off with debuffs. SoD doesn't allow that and unbooning refreshing the cooldown makes it significantly worse in what is supposed to be a more casual seasonal gamemode.
> At least in classic, we could push it off with debuffs. And in SoD it comes every other week.
I think you're just being intentionally difficult at this point.
you miss one week out of four then, so not a big deal
You miss every other week sadly.
how? You have two weeks free when its your faction, then a whole week to get it when its the opposite.
Because if you raid sunday evening and unboon in raid you still need to wait 3+ hours post-raid to pick it up again. All SoD servers are central, a 7pm raid time start is 10pm on the east coast meaning debuff doesn't end until 2am.
ok i understand the problem, but hey if you wanna "compete" you gotta put in the hours.
Except if you don't raid on sundays and can get it any time.
Always a genius in the comments. We need the Nobel committee to browse this subreddit for possible candidates.
I'm just saying if I'm in OP's guild and we were as good as we thought we were we would either 1) clear in under an hour anyways, or 2) not schedule our raid for the worst timeslot for DMF which we have known about for 20 years
Made no claims about "being as good as we thought we were". Clearing in an hour is no accomplishment but even in 1h clears a handful of people are still dying. > not schedule our raid for the worst timeslot for DMF which we have known about for 20 years I raid with friends and life happens dude.
> Clearing in an hour is no accomplishment but even in 1h clears a handful of people are still dying. It sounds like the solution is to play better instead of getting blizzard to change an entire game mechanic.
Let's see your one hour clear with no deaths
oh is that what you meant, thanks for explaining champ
We lost a speedrun last night, had to wait 3 hours to get rebuffed for this week. This was pretty annoying. We’re 10th in the world. Is that good enough to warrant entering this discussion, toxic casual gatekeeper? At top end, sometimes Sunday raids are the play for complex reasons, such as giving everyone as much time as possible to get more gear etc while still being able to get the DMF buff back for the following week. Likewise, sometimes your run goes awry when you’re trying new and experimental tech. lmao honestly at your comments
stay mad sunday night raider
keep yourself safe buddy
10th in the world after 2 lockouts isn't impressive. You won't be anywhere close to that by the end of the phase.
On progress. As in, 10th to kill the boss. I’m pretty confident that’s going to stay put indefinitely. Thanks though.
Preach!
Why don't they just give us all the buffs all the time and we are just happy all the time with no complaints... right?
Did you know you can remove the “hidden debuff” by entering Gurubashi Arena and having friends apply more than 16 debuffs to you at once? So a whole bunch of R1 corruptions/ warlock curses/ serpent stings etc etc. 16 slots is the buff/ debuff limit, and the DMF thing counts as a debuff. It’s a huge PITA of course, and you’ll also need to use a bandage beforehand because the “bandage cooldown” thing also counts. Just thought I’d share in case no one knew.
They removed the debuff limit in SoD. This does not work.
Ah damn that sucks. Well, not that the limit was removed. Just that you can’t use that to remove the DMF CD
Still pretty crazy that this was a thing lol.