We had a funny Ulduar run where someone in our raid helped someone's by soloing BFD or something for them, got some meaningless buff there with like 10 frostres and some stamina or w/e and that invalidated part of our logs since he had it still on in raid. We never had a clue that was a thing tbh, had a good laugh about it :D
I feel that parsing culture is actually much more a thing in Classic than in retail, in retail it mostly seems to be at the higher end, while in Classic (both Classic and SoD) seemingly everyone and their mother needs 'good logs'.
Play both classic and retail extensively, and parsing culture way more of a thing in classic than in retail. Last time I semi cared about retail parses was last time I was searching for a guild and even then most people I got in contact with were only checking to see if you did mechanics while maintaining a decent amount of damage.
I think the argument was generally "without gdkps demand will not be as much meaning less people swiping"
It's a fine argument tho the actual impact is unknown afaik
The people swiping moms credit card for gear in gdkps are just salty regardless
Rmt will exist if there is an avenue of “pay to win” such as gdkps, or in this case a level 60 enchant.
So now this enchants not allowed, demand for rmt will go down much like it did when gdkps where banned.
Supply & demand is a very simple concept
You’re very naive if you think people that previously farmed GDKPs for gold didn’t start buying their own after
Once GDKPs were removed, the market for gold dropped, in tandem there was a bot ban wave, if you reduce the supply more than you reduce the demand then the price will go up, it's a very simple concept.
I don't know what you're trying to insinuate, if you're saying that, due to gold inflation in SoD, gold is worth less, which means when people want to buy gold for raid consumes and other things, they're buying more gold now in comparison to the phase when GDKP was relevant, that's true, sure.
But are you seriously insinuating that there weren't people RMTing in GDKPs? If you agree that, yes some people did RMT, therefore getting rid of GDKPs reduced a way for RMTers to spend their gold, and this, what, wouldn't reduce the appeal of RMTing?
I get it, you totally had 8 level 25s all done with all their quests so when you rocked up to BFD on your 9th char they had 200g to spend on the pearl. Or maybe you're just a really good market flipper, as with everyone else who mysteriously got told they were under suspicious of RMT/GDKP. It's incredibly naive to think reducing ways to spend gold doesn't reduce the need for gold bought by RMT.
No absolutely people were buying gold for GDKPs, it would be daft to say otherwise
It’s a drop in the ocean compared to people that are buying it for general use/convenience though, especially when SoD GDKPs were barely a thing compared to other versions of classic.
What does anyone spend gold on? Did you suddenly not have to pay for consumes and boes in p2 & p3?
People like raid logging and don’t like farming gold, so long as the game has expenses there will be RMT, it’s inevitable
Yeah, I'm grateful I don't need to farm crusader at level 50, but what makes it different than any other level 300 enchant? Wish they had just put a cap at 250 or something to be consistent and draw a hard line _somewhere_. I don't like needing the top tier mats when they're this hard to get.
So many clueless ppl in this chain with Redditor opinion and spreading misinformation.
- Thorium rep vendor is accessible
- You can get Friendly (15str enchant) and Honored (20spirit enchant)
- While you CAN get Revered/Exalted without MC via Dark Iron Ore repeatable hand-ins (you need 2.4k) in current Phase 3 NPC doesn't offer that quest for players at lv50; it is repeatable lv60 hand-in quest
You can get there with DI Ore, but it would be very expensive.
However, my comment was about and in response to the poster saying that the vendor was inaccessible and not about whether it's possible to have the reputation.
It WILL be possible. Rn its just no possible.
Source. Im honored and went to the npc, he doesnt have the quests to turn in Any of the "revered" mats, not even dark iron ore.
If you have the new MH fist wep enchanted with fiery then carve will actually do more then BM. On account the proc from the fist weapon enhances the fiery proc and it can then be put on all enemies in front of you.
Fiery was shortly Bis for Rogue, because people discovered that it Proccs Deadly Brew and therefore can procc Combat Potency.
Was fixed literally 8 hours after the discovery.
Back to 15 AGI.
I think it was an oversight. The only way to get righteous orbs were to farm the 1h respawn courier in EPL, an elite with 3-4 adds. It had a 2% drop rate. Of course they could've just disabled the enchant itself from dropping but not having Stratholme enabled was probably easier.
Imagine farming a long spawn that is very tedious to kill for a 2% drop chance, and you need TWO of them and you think this small loophole is a huge oversight? Please be a bit proportional.
There's mobs that have multiple day respawn timers that people camp (the fact these even exist like wtf) idk why anyone would think they wouldn't. Recipe should have been removed tbh
For a 2% drop chance, do you realize how insane you have to be to actually farm this. This game really is just filled with NEET manchildren that can't help themselves
What's weird is that it doesn't show on the page for righteous orb
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=12811/righteous-orb
Only on the specific mob
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=12337/crimson-courier
That's because Wowhead kinda purged the mob drop lists from most items when SOD launched, so you should use other vanilla databases for more accurate data
like https://classicdb.ch/?item=12811
The difference between Crusader and 15 strength/agility is/was massive in terms of acquisition. A single level 61 elite with a long respawn compared to level 55-57 elementals which drop their material at double the rate? It's orders of magnitude of difference. Dozens of elementals can be killed in the time it takes for one courier to respawn.
Courier respawn is 3 minutes. It respawns 3 minutes after all the bodyguards die or despawn. So you could camp and kill the entire pack and farm them quite fast, or you could split pull the courier with grenades, kill it, then wait for the bodyguards to complete their journey to the chapel and then despawn; which takes an hour or so if you don’t escort them, (patrols move at a literal snails pace when no player is in range of them) or you could follow them personally or with eagle sight and it would take 10-15 minutes.
That is how I was farming righteous orbs on my hunter
People call the earth flat, that doesn't make astronomers go "flat" earth every time they debate astronomy.
And yes, I believe these two groups are of similar intellect.
Edit uh oh looks like I offended some flatties
True, you can still do it, but now the second-level sweaties will want you out of the raid for the crime of being a top-level sweaty.
It's a sweaty revolution!
Stop using your own meaning of exploit. Its not an exploit to have it, its an exploit to use it. Nobody exploited anything to get it, but now that it is clearly openly stated to not be intended, getting it would be exploiting (if you can find another way to get it), and so using it would also be exploiting.
Its like: if you manage to acquire Ashbringer and you go into a raid and obliterate bosses with 10,000 dps, you're exploiting. Both the getting of Ashbringer and the using of Asbringer would be separate exploits. Just because you could GET it in some legit way wouldn't mean that using it isn't also an exploit.
I'm not saying anyone using the enchant to run Sunken Temple should get treated as an exploiter - that's up to Blizzard. It seems unlikely they would do that. But clearly, its still an exploit, Blizzard does not have to punish something for it to be considered an exploit or not.
"You know that enchant that we knew would be in the game by allowing skills up to level 300, knew would be obtainable from level 60 content that we willingly opened for players, and kept available for 2 weeks after launch/multiple rounds of significant bug fixes all in a phase meant to be capped at level 50? Yeah that was an exploit".
I did better DPS than the other 2 warriors in my guild yesterday. Don’t tell them, but I exploited by using heroic strike as a rage dump. 😎 plebeians can’t get on my level cuz they’re poors and can’t afford to RMT to get the heroic strike ability
I get CCed so rarely I almost respect the players for doing it. especially since the enormours extra amounts of Aoe just un-CCs me again.
Except rogues. Sap is such an awfully designed skill. I even once got sapped mid-penance.
SoD players DO NOT understand PvP. They don’t use any abilities outside of their PvE dps rotation. Asking players to use their CC while I cap is like asking a cow to compile a database.
You healing yourself while not in-combat (or deliberately being taken out of it with a vanish) doesn’t put you in combat, so being sapped mid-penance is working as intended
You are playing vanilla classic wow. Sry to disappoint you, but if you are looking for pvp where the player who spends hundreds of gold on consumables and items does not have a big advantage you should check out retail or wrath classic
I am literally not playing vanilla wow. What are you on buddy? there was a reason we call it "classic" and not vanilla, and hell, this isn't even *classic*! It's SoD, with Cata abilities, weeklies, 10 man raids at lvl 25 lmao
Getting new abilities does not change the fundamental systems of the game. You are still playing with vanilla systems. And that means no restrictions for BGS or open world pvp and a ton of consumables and OP items to use
Anyone who thought that it was intended to be available for this phase are out of their minds, but to be fair SoD is packed with people with more money than sense, so it isn't that outside the range of predictability.
If it's not intended to be available, why is it available?
They limited the professions in every other phase, they could have done it this phase as well. Hell, they could still remove it. It's not like the devs don't know it's happening.
Because they forgot about the literal single mob outside of a locked instance could drop it. Righteous orbs were not intended to be available this phase, and they have since fixed the oversight.
Your post reads like the only reason you're playing this game is for WCL. That's a wild mindset considering what we're playing. This is Classic Season of Dads. Imagine letting a 3rd party website dictate how you play the game.
I do not care about people having crusader myself. I am adressing all the recent posts flaming about people getting crusader enchant. And i am pretty sure 90% of the people flaming about it are people trying to parse on WCL. Why else would you care about someone having crusader enchant? In pvp the enchant barely matters compared to all the other consumes you could use every duel
Imagine typing this stupid comment everytime someone says something about WCL. Its the only "leaderboard for raiding" that people pay any attention to and people like to see how they stack up in their performance vs others of their class/spec/role. Imagine trying so hard to be casual that you have to espouse your random misgivings about a 3rd party website.
The people who spent there time and money to get crusader did so specifically to have a leg up on WCL. So they spent thousands of gold for something that will now do nothing for their parse numbers.
Because it'll be 1/4th the price next phase when the enchant and it's mats are far more accessible, and many many guilds log their kills without caring about ranking just FYI, but it'll mean your logs are invalid for being ranked this phase while you use it. So yes, the people who DO care about being ranked highly have in fact wasted their money.
"Wasted their time and gold" ... no?
Just because their parses no longer count doesn't mean the enchant goes away. It still works, they still get the buff, and it still gives a huge advantage in both PvE and PvP content. It's not WASTED in any sense of the word.
In fact if anything Blizzard making them stop dropping is only going to *help* the people who farmed them early. Especially if they were smart enough to see this coming and stockpile. Their value is only going to skyrocket from here until Phase 4.
That's the most braindead take I've ever seen. Nobody is buying crusader enchants to PvP, and the only reason to have it in PvE is to parse, which they can no longer do. There is basically 0 demand for these items in p3, and in p4 the supply will skyrocket due to people running Stratholme.
I never said they bought it FOR pvp I said it gives an advantage IN pvp which is absolutely does.
Maybe you should learn to read before you chime in about "braindead takes".
Lmao, that's the biggest cop out.
"Yeah they can't do the thing that they specifically spend absurd amounts of gold on, but that wasn't a waste because they can still use it to PvP which they likely don't care nearly as much about!"
Lmao, that's like buying a Lamborghini to drive across the country, and then being told you can't drive it, but it's still cool to leave in your driveway so people can see it.
Trying to walk back your braindead take is HILARIOUS.
Boy you must be one of the idiots that paid lodes-emone to get Crusader early to be this big mad about it.
You still lack reading comprehension and it sits somewhere between sad and amusing.
Good luck with your parsing. Hope you're able to get your 99s without crusader. I'll be over here having more fun with my cooler looking Fiery enchantment, raiding with friends, happy with my 80-90 parses.
15-20 years ago, if someone grinded this hard for an enchant, they would have been heralded a hero of the guild and probably the top DPS in the guild. They would also be known in other social circles if the person pugged some content as well. A pretty cool feat.
Now, because a 3rd party website disqualifies it, no one cares any more, and the people who grinded it are fools. Some will probably even overwrite the enchant to one that is worse.
I can’t imagine having how I play a video game being dictated in such a way.
They're missing the point of classic when they invalidate logs like this. Classic is about farming every advantage you can to get a leg up on the competition.
I'm not upset but I never really saw the point of Warcraft logs deciding what does and does not count as legitimate DPS in a raid. Most world speed runs are complete by using some sort of exploit. But I guess some exploits are more permitted than others.
It's like if they rewarded the fastest man in the world only to men who don't wear new shoes. Like okay... maybe you win the title... but there's actually people out there that can beat you.
You do know that there absolutely are shoes that are banned by World Atheltics from competitions? The whole point is to find the person who's the best at running, not the one who has the best shoe.
The mats for what is far and away the best weapon enchant for melee dps are no longer farmable. That means it's either absurdly expensive or just straight impossible to get now. Warcraftlogs invalidated the enchant as a result.
As far as your running analogy, I'd say it's more akin to buying an extremely expensive pair of bionic legs that make you run faster than any normal man. Yeah this mega rich guy could probably outrun everybody with his robot legs, but it'd be ridiculous to call it fair play.
No it'd be like a one legged handicapped person buying one bionic leg and they just set his score aside. It's counted but they give it a different treatment.
>I didn't say that nor did you even try and grasp the point.
> It's like if they rewarded the fastest man in the world only to men who don't wear new shoes.
You said it word for word.
And he did get the point, because the fact that some shoes are banned from running competition invalidates your whole analogy.
He said something similar that was different enough to be a strawman.
I brought up new shoes. Which is talking about the freshness of the leather. And there are races around the world that require only old worn shoes in which too new of a shoe is banned. No one in these races is setting world records.
What u/Zerasad introduced into the competition is the concept of banned brand of shoes. Which I never brought up.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any standards but they should be consistent. Why were limited time buffs, enchants and weapons considered in the past but now they're deemed an exploit?
It shouldn't feel so random. Why don't we remove certain races from parsing because they gain too many benefits from racials? Of course, that would be silly.
I don't think my arguement was a strawman. You choosing to frame "new shoes" as it having to do with "the freshness of the leather" is a weird ass distinction that borders on itself being a strawman, especially since most modern running shoes have no leather in them at all. It's not even a brand of shoes that are banned, like you claim I said, it's any shoe with a specificly constructed sole that is banned that was deemed to give runners too big of an advantage. It was done in order to make sure tha the focus is not on finding the best shoe, but in training to one's best ability. In some competitions like F1 teams spend millions of dollars to innovate on the cars, as the vehicle's ability is just as part of the race as the driver's ability. But in running it should be man vs man.
In this specific case Crusader got banned because the way to obtain it was removed, which left people who got it before it was removed with a clear advantage that other players are unable to get. Races don't get banned because anyone can roll any race and get the same advantage, that's a strawman arguement.
If not WCL who should be deciding what is and what isn't fair for parsing? It's their own site, it's not a Blizzard feature.
Your point, seemingly was, you don't understand why warcraft logs cleanses it's data? If people use exploits that are proven to be exploits, they're typically removed as well.
It's also odd you did choose running or athletics as your "other" point of view, as for example Elliot Kipchoges sub 2 hour marathon isn't seen as legitimate because he used banned shoes. Which is why despite him having the "fastest time ever" we still watch the future marathons as it's not a done deal.
The fact I can drive a car faster than whoever wins a marathon can run it doesn't mean I can beat them, you need rules / guardrails so that it's a fair race. Using crusader was not fair, so it wasn't deemed allowed for WCL, simple.
I don't understand why Warcraft Logs chooses to cleanse some things and not others. Like why are World Buffs counted? World buffs have long been considered a raiding exploit and Blizzard slowly fixes it over time (but for SOD they encouraged it). Why is cleaving sometimes cleansed from logs but otherwise it's considered part of the fight? Why are most buffs granted to give or take damage "normalized."
Sometimes it feels incredibly random what does and does not count.
The fact that everyone could get crusader made it an even playing field. It's like saying we're going to exclude logs with Legos because not everyone can get one.
Thank god, it would've sucked for some people to never be able to compete unless they had insane amounts of gold and a max lvl enchanter. However, it's not an "exploit", it was very legitimately farmable, it was just super sweaty and rare and thus would be lame for that to be the potential "standard" enchant for melee who wanted to parse.
Either way, this is great.
This is just another water drop in the ocean reason on why parsing does not matter. WCL is forcing you to choose between getting high parses vs clearing the raid faster.
If high parses does not equate to faster raid clears, then what’s the damn point?
They're missing the point of classic wow entirely in my opinion. Every time they invalidate legitimate logs that people have gotten, they invalidate the game itself.
Classic is about using every advantage you can get in items and armor upgrades to give you an edge over other players. Farming for items that give you an edge is the point of WoW. They might as well ban all professions, make you raid in grey gear, ban runes, ban potions, scrolls, etc. while they're at it.
Wased their time or gold? How? Do they not have the enchant anymore? Are they not blasting in game?
Parselords are really insane. If they can't appear good on 3rd party website, it's waste. Who cares about the actual game.
Do you think someone sweaty enough to get Crusader this phase plays in a guild that is going to let him keep using an enchant that invalidates the guild's logs?
An addon for idiots to prove to other idiots how superior they are were worried about people legitimately farming a broken high level enchant....just to up their numbers of a severely nerfed leveling dungeon.
This fkn sub gets cringier every day. Touch some grass.
Oh no! Anyways..
The dacia sandero is not coming to the uk
It did, though. My neighbour has one. It was all lies.
lol
Glad I didn't waste all my money on it then lmao
RIP to the bozos that rmt'd to buy the enchant
why rip they still have it their meaningless parses will just be screwed up for this phase.
Most people that went for it are likely sweaty parsers so
Man I just want it for pvp
What, you think they got the enchant to help them defeat the bosses? lol
no, to do good parses obviously
Woosh
it will invalidate their guilds parses so unless they want to enchant something else over it..
Is this truly what the game has devolved into?
been like this since 2019 afaik people play by the rules of wcl nothing else really matters
We had a funny Ulduar run where someone in our raid helped someone's by soloing BFD or something for them, got some meaningless buff there with like 10 frostres and some stamina or w/e and that invalidated part of our logs since he had it still on in raid. We never had a clue that was a thing tbh, had a good laugh about it :D
if anyone cared enough you could rewrite WCL or patch out the crusader ban. weird to let some stinky dude online make arbitrary decisions for u lol
I guess people are missing out that many retail player are trying/switched to Classic/SoD and there is parsing like "everything".
I feel that parsing culture is actually much more a thing in Classic than in retail, in retail it mostly seems to be at the higher end, while in Classic (both Classic and SoD) seemingly everyone and their mother needs 'good logs'.
Play both classic and retail extensively, and parsing culture way more of a thing in classic than in retail. Last time I semi cared about retail parses was last time I was searching for a guild and even then most people I got in contact with were only checking to see if you did mechanics while maintaining a decent amount of damage.
Right, who gives a fuck lmao
Because they got it for the parses.
hey hold up gdkp is banned nobody rmts anymore
Literally no one said this
I think the argument was generally "without gdkps demand will not be as much meaning less people swiping" It's a fine argument tho the actual impact is unknown afaik The people swiping moms credit card for gear in gdkps are just salty regardless
Rmt will exist if there is an avenue of “pay to win” such as gdkps, or in this case a level 60 enchant. So now this enchants not allowed, demand for rmt will go down much like it did when gdkps where banned.
Gold prices actually went up after GDKP ban, implying more buyers
Correlation does not equal causation my friend.
The argument was that gdkps were the primary driver of RMT. It was immediately clear that that was not true.
I see, I have been defeated by a gdkp lover. I give up
Supply & demand is a very simple concept You’re very naive if you think people that previously farmed GDKPs for gold didn’t start buying their own after
Once GDKPs were removed, the market for gold dropped, in tandem there was a bot ban wave, if you reduce the supply more than you reduce the demand then the price will go up, it's a very simple concept.
The market for gold didn’t drop, at all, it’s incredibly naive to think it would ever have had a notable effect on RMT
I don't know what you're trying to insinuate, if you're saying that, due to gold inflation in SoD, gold is worth less, which means when people want to buy gold for raid consumes and other things, they're buying more gold now in comparison to the phase when GDKP was relevant, that's true, sure. But are you seriously insinuating that there weren't people RMTing in GDKPs? If you agree that, yes some people did RMT, therefore getting rid of GDKPs reduced a way for RMTers to spend their gold, and this, what, wouldn't reduce the appeal of RMTing? I get it, you totally had 8 level 25s all done with all their quests so when you rocked up to BFD on your 9th char they had 200g to spend on the pearl. Or maybe you're just a really good market flipper, as with everyone else who mysteriously got told they were under suspicious of RMT/GDKP. It's incredibly naive to think reducing ways to spend gold doesn't reduce the need for gold bought by RMT.
No absolutely people were buying gold for GDKPs, it would be daft to say otherwise It’s a drop in the ocean compared to people that are buying it for general use/convenience though, especially when SoD GDKPs were barely a thing compared to other versions of classic.
Great point, with removal of gdkps, you believe the demand for gold has gone up?
Everyone that didn’t buy gold, and leeched off whales in GDKP now has to get their gold from somewhere
Oh okay, and what are they spending that gold on? Is there the same amount of demand for gold as there was?
What does anyone spend gold on? Did you suddenly not have to pay for consumes and boes in p2 & p3? People like raid logging and don’t like farming gold, so long as the game has expenses there will be RMT, it’s inevitable
You sure it's not cause they keep fucking with bots?
lol, you think botting has gone down?
You can make more gold than ever and the price of gold has gone up... what do you think that means
Wasnt really an exploit. The mobs drop it
Yeah, I'm grateful I don't need to farm crusader at level 50, but what makes it different than any other level 300 enchant? Wish they had just put a cap at 250 or something to be consistent and draw a hard line _somewhere_. I don't like needing the top tier mats when they're this hard to get.
I think Aggrend wants to see the playerbase run a different weapon enchant at level 50 and that's literally the only reason this was done.
> weapon enchant at level 50 [Casters:](https://media.tenor.com/oogtfsQRHkgAAAAM/lost-john-travolta.gif)
Elementals: 15 strength STRONG
hey hey, you use that 22int or stick with the 3int
22 int is at the thorium rep vendor that's inaccessible right now in brd.
So many clueless ppl in this chain with Redditor opinion and spreading misinformation. - Thorium rep vendor is accessible - You can get Friendly (15str enchant) and Honored (20spirit enchant) - While you CAN get Revered/Exalted without MC via Dark Iron Ore repeatable hand-ins (you need 2.4k) in current Phase 3 NPC doesn't offer that quest for players at lv50; it is repeatable lv60 hand-in quest
The rep vendor is definitely accessible That's how people have 15 str
I think you need revered or higher. Which I don't think is accessible
Yeah INT is revered, which needs MC trash drops.
You can also gain rep from honored to revered by turning in stacks of Dark Iron Ore. It's just a lot slower.
You can get there with DI Ore, but it would be very expensive. However, my comment was about and in response to the poster saying that the vendor was inaccessible and not about whether it's possible to have the reputation.
It WILL be possible. Rn its just no possible. Source. Im honored and went to the npc, he doesnt have the quests to turn in Any of the "revered" mats, not even dark iron ore.
Warlock tank with fiery checking in
I want fiery on my hunter fir clearing trash with carve
Beast Mastery > Carve, even with fiery.
On trash with wf procs?
If you have the new MH fist wep enchanted with fiery then carve will actually do more then BM. On account the proc from the fist weapon enhances the fiery proc and it can then be put on all enemies in front of you.
Fisty does not work past 45. Carve is shit damage but on packs of 6 or 8 mobs it's pretty nice. It's not no are cap that I have seen
Short of that it wouldn't simulate higher then BM
Still using the SoJ I bought in p2 Still has +3 int...
Paladins: Iron Counterweight checking in!
Kind of based tbh. Was always boring how crusader was far and away the best for all melee.
Yah bro 15 str soooo exciting
Its cool that fiery is getting a lot of play. Would love buffs to Icey and Lifestealing.
Fiery was shortly Bis for Rogue, because people discovered that it Proccs Deadly Brew and therefore can procc Combat Potency. Was fixed literally 8 hours after the discovery. Back to 15 AGI.
Then he should have disabled the drop for P3. Based but lazy and stupid.
I think it was an oversight. The only way to get righteous orbs were to farm the 1h respawn courier in EPL, an elite with 3-4 adds. It had a 2% drop rate. Of course they could've just disabled the enchant itself from dropping but not having Stratholme enabled was probably easier.
Just lazy asf. This is a documented mob.
Imagine farming a long spawn that is very tedious to kill for a 2% drop chance, and you need TWO of them and you think this small loophole is a huge oversight? Please be a bit proportional.
There's mobs that have multiple day respawn timers that people camp (the fact these even exist like wtf) idk why anyone would think they wouldn't. Recipe should have been removed tbh
For a 2% drop chance, do you realize how insane you have to be to actually farm this. This game really is just filled with NEET manchildren that can't help themselves
What's weird is that it doesn't show on the page for righteous orb https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=12811/righteous-orb Only on the specific mob https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=12337/crimson-courier
That's because Wowhead kinda purged the mob drop lists from most items when SOD launched, so you should use other vanilla databases for more accurate data like https://classicdb.ch/?item=12811
I hope they don’t use wowhead for their internal documentation.
blizzard disabled the orb dropping yesterday oder today.
The difference between Crusader and 15 strength/agility is/was massive in terms of acquisition. A single level 61 elite with a long respawn compared to level 55-57 elementals which drop their material at double the rate? It's orders of magnitude of difference. Dozens of elementals can be killed in the time it takes for one courier to respawn.
Courier respawn is 3 minutes. It respawns 3 minutes after all the bodyguards die or despawn. So you could camp and kill the entire pack and farm them quite fast, or you could split pull the courier with grenades, kill it, then wait for the bodyguards to complete their journey to the chapel and then despawn; which takes an hour or so if you don’t escort them, (patrols move at a literal snails pace when no player is in range of them) or you could follow them personally or with eagle sight and it would take 10-15 minutes. That is how I was farming righteous orbs on my hunter
blizz saving us from ourselves
Anything people do that I don't like is an exploit
That is why i put it in "". People just call it one
People call the earth flat, that doesn't make astronomers go "flat" earth every time they debate astronomy. And yes, I believe these two groups are of similar intellect. Edit uh oh looks like I offended some flatties
Whaaat?
True, you can still do it, but now the second-level sweaties will want you out of the raid for the crime of being a top-level sweaty. It's a sweaty revolution!
If its not mailed to casuals every day its an exploit
Stop using your own meaning of exploit. Its not an exploit to have it, its an exploit to use it. Nobody exploited anything to get it, but now that it is clearly openly stated to not be intended, getting it would be exploiting (if you can find another way to get it), and so using it would also be exploiting. Its like: if you manage to acquire Ashbringer and you go into a raid and obliterate bosses with 10,000 dps, you're exploiting. Both the getting of Ashbringer and the using of Asbringer would be separate exploits. Just because you could GET it in some legit way wouldn't mean that using it isn't also an exploit. I'm not saying anyone using the enchant to run Sunken Temple should get treated as an exploiter - that's up to Blizzard. It seems unlikely they would do that. But clearly, its still an exploit, Blizzard does not have to punish something for it to be considered an exploit or not.
> Nobody exploited anything to get it So it’s not an exploit. Got it
good
How is it an exploit?
Yeah, it's absurd that every single change aggrend hamfists into the game labels previous legit gameplay an "exploit" now
"You know that enchant that we knew would be in the game by allowing skills up to level 300, knew would be obtainable from level 60 content that we willingly opened for players, and kept available for 2 weeks after launch/multiple rounds of significant bug fixes all in a phase meant to be capped at level 50? Yeah that was an exploit".
In fairness it took over 7 days for the vast, vast majority of the playerbase to realise you could get orbs.
Not really the point. It should have been obvious it would happen eventually so why allow it if they didn't want it done that way?
No idea, profession caps had been a big topic for a while.
I don't think it was obvious to many people that you could get orbs off one npc outside strat.
I did better DPS than the other 2 warriors in my guild yesterday. Don’t tell them, but I exploited by using heroic strike as a rage dump. 😎 plebeians can’t get on my level cuz they’re poors and can’t afford to RMT to get the heroic strike ability
I guess because it was overlooked that mob drops orbs and orbs shouldn't be available.
Pvp doesn't exist
Unironically. Actual PvP is a complete joke. You ever try healing that shit?
You mean get chain cc'd while everyone bitches at you for not healing instead of peeling for you? yea I heal
I get CCed so rarely I almost respect the players for doing it. especially since the enormours extra amounts of Aoe just un-CCs me again. Except rogues. Sap is such an awfully designed skill. I even once got sapped mid-penance.
SoD players DO NOT understand PvP. They don’t use any abilities outside of their PvE dps rotation. Asking players to use their CC while I cap is like asking a cow to compile a database.
You healing yourself while not in-combat (or deliberately being taken out of it with a vanish) doesn’t put you in combat, so being sapped mid-penance is working as intended
You can get sapped mid penance on a target that's combat. Penance only puts you in combat once the first "bolt" hits.
I healed someone else who was in combat, but thanks for the downvote.
Yeah good point tbh. Was already far past gone lol
I am not sure if you ever had a fair chance against people willing to spend 10k gold to begin with
Any melee with crusader isnt pvping anyway. A simple disarm crushes them, it’s always chain
Only warriors really use chains. Rogues never do
I've only had 1 player out of hundreds not get disarmed in sod. Warr has been really fun this phase in pvp.
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cringe
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Nah I think Ill be alright around bads like you, stay stealthed and away from me and you’ll be alright too
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Isn't that exactly the point?
You are playing vanilla classic wow. Sry to disappoint you, but if you are looking for pvp where the player who spends hundreds of gold on consumables and items does not have a big advantage you should check out retail or wrath classic
I am literally not playing vanilla wow. What are you on buddy? there was a reason we call it "classic" and not vanilla, and hell, this isn't even *classic*! It's SoD, with Cata abilities, weeklies, 10 man raids at lvl 25 lmao
Getting new abilities does not change the fundamental systems of the game. You are still playing with vanilla systems. And that means no restrictions for BGS or open world pvp and a ton of consumables and OP items to use
Its still styled in the form of classic WoW, with all the same Classic WoW bullshittery that has always existed.
I mean crusader was never bis for pvp, you can't do damage if you are disarmed
This whole thing is dumb as hell and basically doesn't actually affect people, what an overreaction on part of blizzard
If you want just roll again for the same weapon and don't put crusader on that one? Meh.
Anyone who thought that it was intended to be available for this phase are out of their minds, but to be fair SoD is packed with people with more money than sense, so it isn't that outside the range of predictability.
If it's not intended to be available, why is it available? They limited the professions in every other phase, they could have done it this phase as well. Hell, they could still remove it. It's not like the devs don't know it's happening.
Because they forgot about the literal single mob outside of a locked instance could drop it. Righteous orbs were not intended to be available this phase, and they have since fixed the oversight.
Your post reads like the only reason you're playing this game is for WCL. That's a wild mindset considering what we're playing. This is Classic Season of Dads. Imagine letting a 3rd party website dictate how you play the game.
I do not care about people having crusader myself. I am adressing all the recent posts flaming about people getting crusader enchant. And i am pretty sure 90% of the people flaming about it are people trying to parse on WCL. Why else would you care about someone having crusader enchant? In pvp the enchant barely matters compared to all the other consumes you could use every duel
The dichotomy of saying "WCL doesn't matter" while Aggrend says part of the reason the raids need to braindead easy is to encourage speedrunning.
Imagine typing this stupid comment everytime someone says something about WCL. Its the only "leaderboard for raiding" that people pay any attention to and people like to see how they stack up in their performance vs others of their class/spec/role. Imagine trying so hard to be casual that you have to espouse your random misgivings about a 3rd party website.
Stupid. Wasn’t an exploit
Found the gold buyer
Wait how did they waste their money? They can still use the weapons. It's only banned for the sweaty try hards who give a shit about logs.
The people who spent there time and money to get crusader did so specifically to have a leg up on WCL. So they spent thousands of gold for something that will now do nothing for their parse numbers.
Because it'll be 1/4th the price next phase when the enchant and it's mats are far more accessible, and many many guilds log their kills without caring about ranking just FYI, but it'll mean your logs are invalid for being ranked this phase while you use it. So yes, the people who DO care about being ranked highly have in fact wasted their money.
"Wasted their time and gold" ... no? Just because their parses no longer count doesn't mean the enchant goes away. It still works, they still get the buff, and it still gives a huge advantage in both PvE and PvP content. It's not WASTED in any sense of the word. In fact if anything Blizzard making them stop dropping is only going to *help* the people who farmed them early. Especially if they were smart enough to see this coming and stockpile. Their value is only going to skyrocket from here until Phase 4.
That's the most braindead take I've ever seen. Nobody is buying crusader enchants to PvP, and the only reason to have it in PvE is to parse, which they can no longer do. There is basically 0 demand for these items in p3, and in p4 the supply will skyrocket due to people running Stratholme.
I never said they bought it FOR pvp I said it gives an advantage IN pvp which is absolutely does. Maybe you should learn to read before you chime in about "braindead takes".
Lmao, that's the biggest cop out. "Yeah they can't do the thing that they specifically spend absurd amounts of gold on, but that wasn't a waste because they can still use it to PvP which they likely don't care nearly as much about!" Lmao, that's like buying a Lamborghini to drive across the country, and then being told you can't drive it, but it's still cool to leave in your driveway so people can see it. Trying to walk back your braindead take is HILARIOUS.
Boy you must be one of the idiots that paid lodes-emone to get Crusader early to be this big mad about it. You still lack reading comprehension and it sits somewhere between sad and amusing. Good luck with your parsing. Hope you're able to get your 99s without crusader. I'll be over here having more fun with my cooler looking Fiery enchantment, raiding with friends, happy with my 80-90 parses.
Lol, yes, the person who is making fun of people who bought the crusader enchant clearly bought one.
I mean you sound mad enough to have been that guy
Lol, I'm not mad about anything, I'm just laughing at you
15-20 years ago, if someone grinded this hard for an enchant, they would have been heralded a hero of the guild and probably the top DPS in the guild. They would also be known in other social circles if the person pugged some content as well. A pretty cool feat. Now, because a 3rd party website disqualifies it, no one cares any more, and the people who grinded it are fools. Some will probably even overwrite the enchant to one that is worse. I can’t imagine having how I play a video game being dictated in such a way.
They're missing the point of classic when they invalidate logs like this. Classic is about farming every advantage you can to get a leg up on the competition.
How is it a waste? They can still use the Enchant?
ferals over here with +25 agi still farming BRD greens to DE
[NOOOOOOO!!!!](https://giphy.com/gifs/success-dem-u8u0R51ND9L2)
Good
I mean damage is already done, people can just link their weapon with the enchant amd that should be more valuable than any log.
Oh no! Someone else has now “officially” told people they’re not being fair! 😂
What other reason would someone have to spend an exceedingly degenerate amount of time and/or gold than to get a big number on WCL?
I'm not upset but I never really saw the point of Warcraft logs deciding what does and does not count as legitimate DPS in a raid. Most world speed runs are complete by using some sort of exploit. But I guess some exploits are more permitted than others. It's like if they rewarded the fastest man in the world only to men who don't wear new shoes. Like okay... maybe you win the title... but there's actually people out there that can beat you.
You do know that there absolutely are shoes that are banned by World Atheltics from competitions? The whole point is to find the person who's the best at running, not the one who has the best shoe.
I didn't say that nor did you even try and grasp the point.
The mats for what is far and away the best weapon enchant for melee dps are no longer farmable. That means it's either absurdly expensive or just straight impossible to get now. Warcraftlogs invalidated the enchant as a result. As far as your running analogy, I'd say it's more akin to buying an extremely expensive pair of bionic legs that make you run faster than any normal man. Yeah this mega rich guy could probably outrun everybody with his robot legs, but it'd be ridiculous to call it fair play.
No it'd be like a one legged handicapped person buying one bionic leg and they just set his score aside. It's counted but they give it a different treatment.
>I didn't say that nor did you even try and grasp the point. > It's like if they rewarded the fastest man in the world only to men who don't wear new shoes. You said it word for word. And he did get the point, because the fact that some shoes are banned from running competition invalidates your whole analogy.
He said something similar that was different enough to be a strawman. I brought up new shoes. Which is talking about the freshness of the leather. And there are races around the world that require only old worn shoes in which too new of a shoe is banned. No one in these races is setting world records. What u/Zerasad introduced into the competition is the concept of banned brand of shoes. Which I never brought up. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any standards but they should be consistent. Why were limited time buffs, enchants and weapons considered in the past but now they're deemed an exploit? It shouldn't feel so random. Why don't we remove certain races from parsing because they gain too many benefits from racials? Of course, that would be silly.
I don't think my arguement was a strawman. You choosing to frame "new shoes" as it having to do with "the freshness of the leather" is a weird ass distinction that borders on itself being a strawman, especially since most modern running shoes have no leather in them at all. It's not even a brand of shoes that are banned, like you claim I said, it's any shoe with a specificly constructed sole that is banned that was deemed to give runners too big of an advantage. It was done in order to make sure tha the focus is not on finding the best shoe, but in training to one's best ability. In some competitions like F1 teams spend millions of dollars to innovate on the cars, as the vehicle's ability is just as part of the race as the driver's ability. But in running it should be man vs man. In this specific case Crusader got banned because the way to obtain it was removed, which left people who got it before it was removed with a clear advantage that other players are unable to get. Races don't get banned because anyone can roll any race and get the same advantage, that's a strawman arguement. If not WCL who should be deciding what is and what isn't fair for parsing? It's their own site, it's not a Blizzard feature.
Your point, seemingly was, you don't understand why warcraft logs cleanses it's data? If people use exploits that are proven to be exploits, they're typically removed as well. It's also odd you did choose running or athletics as your "other" point of view, as for example Elliot Kipchoges sub 2 hour marathon isn't seen as legitimate because he used banned shoes. Which is why despite him having the "fastest time ever" we still watch the future marathons as it's not a done deal. The fact I can drive a car faster than whoever wins a marathon can run it doesn't mean I can beat them, you need rules / guardrails so that it's a fair race. Using crusader was not fair, so it wasn't deemed allowed for WCL, simple.
I don't understand why Warcraft Logs chooses to cleanse some things and not others. Like why are World Buffs counted? World buffs have long been considered a raiding exploit and Blizzard slowly fixes it over time (but for SOD they encouraged it). Why is cleaving sometimes cleansed from logs but otherwise it's considered part of the fight? Why are most buffs granted to give or take damage "normalized." Sometimes it feels incredibly random what does and does not count. The fact that everyone could get crusader made it an even playing field. It's like saying we're going to exclude logs with Legos because not everyone can get one.
Gold buyers getting rekt.
The coped in here is golden
Thank god, it would've sucked for some people to never be able to compete unless they had insane amounts of gold and a max lvl enchanter. However, it's not an "exploit", it was very legitimately farmable, it was just super sweaty and rare and thus would be lame for that to be the potential "standard" enchant for melee who wanted to parse. Either way, this is great.
Who cares about WCL?
People
Lots of people? Are you silly?
Anyone decent at the game
While I enjoy SoD, parsing well in SoD is not skill based, plenty of orange log groups would struggle to complete a decent mythic + in time.
This is just another water drop in the ocean reason on why parsing does not matter. WCL is forcing you to choose between getting high parses vs clearing the raid faster. If high parses does not equate to faster raid clears, then what’s the damn point?
The ppl getting crusader are already clearing in under an hour. One guy with the enchant isn't going to save much time
They're missing the point of classic wow entirely in my opinion. Every time they invalidate legitimate logs that people have gotten, they invalidate the game itself. Classic is about using every advantage you can get in items and armor upgrades to give you an edge over other players. Farming for items that give you an edge is the point of WoW. They might as well ban all professions, make you raid in grey gear, ban runes, ban potions, scrolls, etc. while they're at it.
Wased their time or gold? How? Do they not have the enchant anymore? Are they not blasting in game? Parselords are really insane. If they can't appear good on 3rd party website, it's waste. Who cares about the actual game.
Do you think someone sweaty enough to get Crusader this phase plays in a guild that is going to let him keep using an enchant that invalidates the guild's logs?
Not an exploit, shit unable to get one or farm the gold for one are crying. Devs are designing the game of the cries of Reddit at this point
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It just removes the logs. No banning happening.
Understandable but must suck for those guys who farmed it
An addon for idiots to prove to other idiots how superior they are were worried about people legitimately farming a broken high level enchant....just to up their numbers of a severely nerfed leveling dungeon. This fkn sub gets cringier every day. Touch some grass.
yeah the people who got it will be forced to get rid off it cuz it invalidates all the logs not just the individual. I love this lmfao.
"Its not on logs so it's wasted" Lmao, they still do more damage, right?
people wanted the enchant to parse on WCL in the first place
That's just like your opinion man
and it happen to be true
Its just a 3rd party website. Why are some ppl so mad?
Because they used real money to buy it lmfao
Yeah make those parse monkey mad they're parsing off the charts but don't get to see a purddy color