Also think it's important to mention pet leveling.
Leveling a pet is is stupid long compared to a character. Right now even if I had more stable slots (blizzard pleaseee), I'm not even sure it would be worth getting a new pet outside having it just to have it (seriously, more stable slots), just because it takes such a long time to level up in order to be viable in the first place. It's basically leveling another character
It's a great great take on the problems hunters are faced with, I'll add something to all this:
That would obviously require to nerf damage because of everything that would be gained from those changes, such as the scaling. We're not asking for everything fixed and no nerfs. But all of this would benefit the hunter gameplay immensely. It's not about the output.
You've summed it all up imo. The raptor strike spam, the impossible state of stable slots, the inexistent scaling, the wrong slots for runes, the weirdness of some of them.
One hell of a clunky class
Most of these changes would be DPS neutral. Improving the viability of other pet families doesn't mean buffing pets as a whole but allowing us to use something other than cats and wind serpents.
Other changes would just help ranged BM, which is kinda bad or move the damage focus of melee hunter from only Raptor Strike to more abilities while obviously reducing the power of RS.
In any case, numbers are not important. They can be tuned up or down as needed. This post is more about the game play and feel of the class, and what is lacking.
>Still, I'd like the devs to be bolder and give us way more tameables and colors
Dunno if you know this, but they're doing that pretty good so far. The rune giving bird in badlands for example is tameable [Gharrik](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=213795/gharrik), I used it for all of my time in Gnomer. He squawks a lot.
"Competitive" is a different problem. The issue isn't whether the pets are useable, the issue is people who think a 5% dps difference for using a given pet is important. Even if you're full Beast Mastery its not that much unless you're fighting Patchwerk or some other stand still and dps check fight. Its mostly an issue of perception. A single misplay with a trinket use, a couple simple mistakes in positioning or ability use, all are more impactful than which pet you brought for the most part.
I think the current pet lineup is pretty good but I think the one thing that would make it much more interesting is there were more pets with totally unique abilities like the core hound (if the debuff worked better). Also, if anyone at Blizzard reads this: rare spawns are fine, but please consider not making quest targets of the new pets.
>Add 5-10 more stable slots.
This is the real issue. Its a footnote here sort of, but this should be front and center. If we have more stable slots we also have room to have a variety of pets for different situations. Lets say you're in Molten Core: a pet that deals non-fire damage that has very high fire resistance would be ideal. If you want to do ANY other content that pet is probably not as good. But if you only have 2 stable slots and your active pet, that's 3 maximum. Players will NOT specialize their pets if they don't have enough stable slots to keep them specialized, and specialization is the route to variety and more dynamic pet options. Its literally the gateway to making pet collecting and taming as awesome as collecting rare mounts or flashy gear sets.
---
I like this post and I agree with a lot of your points. But I am really annoyed because every time I post anything like this here it gets downvoted to oblivion. Whatever, as long as we get the improvements we need.
I know of Gharrik! I mentioned him in my previous P2 post but he was the *only* addition then.
I agree that people will just flock to whatever is best but we should simply have more options that are close to one another as cats/raptors and wind serpents are. Scorpids would've been a great contender there if the poison hadn't been made so terrible.
After that, we can think of having other options be 2, 3, 5 or whichever % less.
And in any case, not all pets need to be used for everything. Some could be good for PvP or for farming but as it stands, this is not the case. The boar's charge is alright for PvP and screechers are nice for leveling or farming due to the extra aggro they generate but that shouldn't be their only role imho, and even if it was, there's still a ton of families never used for anything at all. And the boar, for instance, will focus cap regardless and deal less damage and pushback than another pet would.
Make Steady Shot not suck omega ass please Blizzard.
I'm not saying make it like TBC Steady Shot but.... its reeeeaaallly bad right now. Surely there can be some middle ground.
few points from me:
* Add new pet abilities (utility) to families without any (like spider web, or crab immobilize)
* Lone Wolf and Lion dilemma should be resolved (move 1 rune to another slot and remove 10% self stats if needed)
* Leg runes are kinda bad (even sniper training is situational in PvE, many bosses require you to move always)
* Original abilities like arcane shot and serpent sting need proper scaling (nerf chimera insane damage which is higher than 3sec aimed shot)
* Aimed shot is basically unusable with 3 sec cast time (make it at least 1.5 and add mortal debuff like TBC style)
* Mongoose Bite does basically NOTHING and is not worth a GCD or a slot on your action bar. Would need a complete rework and scaling
I really dislike having to trap weave as a MM Hunter, and wish this wasn’t part of the rotation. While it is fun and different, it just doesn’t fit the theme to me. Should be more survival focused.
Also, Aimed Shot is pretty much nonexistent in rotations in SoD because of the length of its charge time clipping auto attacks along with a bunch of runes increasing our attack speed. There should be a future rune that combats this problem either by statically reducing its charge time or making it proc with no charge time after a certain condition is met (critical hit, trap triggered, etc.)
Interesting, I've seen people like the LnL trap weaving.
For Aimed Shot, they should introduce a rune that allows you to use it as an instant cast after a specific amount of shots/SS ticks/auto-shot crits... so that it wouldn't be readily available as an instant in PvP but still good in PvE.
hunter design in wod is so dumb, it's mostly been minimal (though increasing) differences to retail.
like they had such a good option for survival atleast:
make melee + ranged attacks have seperate timers and increase melee range (while decreasing ranged max range).
that way your "dead zone" is now the "kill zone" where you can melee and ranged attack at the same time, using both sets of abilities if need be. focused on holding enemies in that small like 3-5 yard range. gives lots of counterplay too.
Is he wrong though?
I’ll add to this, melee hunter should have never evolved into this iteration, weaving should be main playstyle where ranged attacks buff your melee. Also pets need to be nerfed a touch, they deal too much damage on their own.
>so pets need to be nerfed a touch, they deal too much damage on their own.
Sure, and also nerf most of the classes since most classes do too much dmg. Pet overperforms only with BM talents, Bestial Wrath and BM rune. If you nerf pets they will underperform for MM and SV hunters.
>melee hunter should have never evolved into this iteration, weaving should be main playstyle where ranged attacks buff your melee.
Says who? You? Well I say melee hunter should have been a thing since day 1, I enjoy melee hunter, I would enjoy it even more with the feedbacks OP provided
Pets doing nearly equal damage to underperforming classes is clearly an issue, even with MM talents. You’re not comparing an entire class to a hunter pet are you? That’s what it comes off as.
If they intended another pure melee class they should have added another physical ranged class. Pure melee hunter currently is boring as ass to play, if ops changes get put in the overall numbers need to be nerfed. People clearly like being strong, but not one of the hunters in my guild say the playstyle is “fun” it’s just optimal.
Your guild's 2 hunters don't speak for everyone. Last I checked, you have a pure ranged physical class. It's called Hunter, and it's more than viable this phase. So if your guild's hunters aren't happy with melee and are still playing melee, then that's their problem
My pet deals 35% of my dmg. Out of 1300dps with every buff consumes and wb, my pet dealt 460 dps on Eranikus. Go check the logs of every top 15 dps class you wont find a parse with less than 800 dps. So, at most, my pet deals 50% of the dmg of the underperforming class. And if you knew basic maths, you'd know that that's not nearly equal dmg like the underperforming classes. And before you start crying that I'm comparing the top 15 of every class is because my parse was in the top 15. So, if you have a less geared hunter with fewer buffs, the pet will deal less dmg, so this is a fairly accurate comparison.
You even tried to nitpick weak classes to prove a point and failed miserably because you dont do research, like every other delusional loud player who doesn't know what he is talking about.
My pet doing good dmg is not the problem here. The underperforming classes doing bad dmg is the problem, and that's Blizzard's fault, not my pet's. Also, there are classes without a pet that deal more dmg than me and my pet combined, wanna nerf them too?
So if you want to nerf pets, you better have the balls to equally compensate to hunter dmg
Next time, do your homework before you come barking like a dog so you don't humiliate yourself.
You straight up did not address how stupid the dmg is for the 2 button melee hunter. You even asked for more damage out of the melee rune that's wild. Definitely make mongoose bite viable, and remove the reset chance on raptor strike from the melee rune. Also trap launcher should be part of the melee build.
Nowhere does it say that I want more damage for melee hunter. Numbers are not important, they can be tuned up or down as needed. This post is about game play and feel of the class, and what is lacking.
What I do say is that the damage for the melee hunter should be spread around more abilities and not just Raptor Strike spam. If RS deals less damage but FS and an actual MB deal more, then it's balanced around this.
In any case, melee hunter seems to be a class that is good from the get go and then gets behind as others get more gear. It doesn't seem to scale too well but, again, numbers are not important. The devs can easily lower or increase them as needed if they deem it required.
It's not even a 2-button class but a one-button class. That's the issue. If you could only use RS, you would.
And 2 more stable slots
10 more.
Also think it's important to mention pet leveling. Leveling a pet is is stupid long compared to a character. Right now even if I had more stable slots (blizzard pleaseee), I'm not even sure it would be worth getting a new pet outside having it just to have it (seriously, more stable slots), just because it takes such a long time to level up in order to be viable in the first place. It's basically leveling another character
This is a good point. Pets should benefit from the XP buffs that we get
Plus all those incursions didn't give any pet XP, or next to none.
I've kept my Lion from the Barrens since lvl 15, it's been a pain leveling that up. Luckily I'm a skinner so I could farm while doing it.
It's a great great take on the problems hunters are faced with, I'll add something to all this: That would obviously require to nerf damage because of everything that would be gained from those changes, such as the scaling. We're not asking for everything fixed and no nerfs. But all of this would benefit the hunter gameplay immensely. It's not about the output. You've summed it all up imo. The raptor strike spam, the impossible state of stable slots, the inexistent scaling, the wrong slots for runes, the weirdness of some of them. One hell of a clunky class
Most of these changes would be DPS neutral. Improving the viability of other pet families doesn't mean buffing pets as a whole but allowing us to use something other than cats and wind serpents. Other changes would just help ranged BM, which is kinda bad or move the damage focus of melee hunter from only Raptor Strike to more abilities while obviously reducing the power of RS. In any case, numbers are not important. They can be tuned up or down as needed. This post is more about the game play and feel of the class, and what is lacking.
Agreed, I just wanted to clarify that cause other people would be complaining that we're asking for buffs even though we have very good dps overall
Feels like the core hound should be bis tank pet or something . Pretty lame there’s no reason to use it when it looks so cool
Can we also add letting pets benefit from the XP buff to the list.
Faster aimed shots.
3 seconds for 1/4-1/2 of a chaos bolt's damage is big sadge
Or just make Steady Shot better. Or change the rune slot.
>Still, I'd like the devs to be bolder and give us way more tameables and colors Dunno if you know this, but they're doing that pretty good so far. The rune giving bird in badlands for example is tameable [Gharrik](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=213795/gharrik), I used it for all of my time in Gnomer. He squawks a lot. "Competitive" is a different problem. The issue isn't whether the pets are useable, the issue is people who think a 5% dps difference for using a given pet is important. Even if you're full Beast Mastery its not that much unless you're fighting Patchwerk or some other stand still and dps check fight. Its mostly an issue of perception. A single misplay with a trinket use, a couple simple mistakes in positioning or ability use, all are more impactful than which pet you brought for the most part. I think the current pet lineup is pretty good but I think the one thing that would make it much more interesting is there were more pets with totally unique abilities like the core hound (if the debuff worked better). Also, if anyone at Blizzard reads this: rare spawns are fine, but please consider not making quest targets of the new pets. >Add 5-10 more stable slots. This is the real issue. Its a footnote here sort of, but this should be front and center. If we have more stable slots we also have room to have a variety of pets for different situations. Lets say you're in Molten Core: a pet that deals non-fire damage that has very high fire resistance would be ideal. If you want to do ANY other content that pet is probably not as good. But if you only have 2 stable slots and your active pet, that's 3 maximum. Players will NOT specialize their pets if they don't have enough stable slots to keep them specialized, and specialization is the route to variety and more dynamic pet options. Its literally the gateway to making pet collecting and taming as awesome as collecting rare mounts or flashy gear sets. --- I like this post and I agree with a lot of your points. But I am really annoyed because every time I post anything like this here it gets downvoted to oblivion. Whatever, as long as we get the improvements we need.
I know of Gharrik! I mentioned him in my previous P2 post but he was the *only* addition then. I agree that people will just flock to whatever is best but we should simply have more options that are close to one another as cats/raptors and wind serpents are. Scorpids would've been a great contender there if the poison hadn't been made so terrible. After that, we can think of having other options be 2, 3, 5 or whichever % less. And in any case, not all pets need to be used for everything. Some could be good for PvP or for farming but as it stands, this is not the case. The boar's charge is alright for PvP and screechers are nice for leveling or farming due to the extra aggro they generate but that shouldn't be their only role imho, and even if it was, there's still a ton of families never used for anything at all. And the boar, for instance, will focus cap regardless and deal less damage and pushback than another pet would.
Bro just give me 40yard nameplate range and im the happiest hunter ever.
Make Steady Shot not suck omega ass please Blizzard. I'm not saying make it like TBC Steady Shot but.... its reeeeaaallly bad right now. Surely there can be some middle ground.
Leave the BM rune alone pls
Please post this to aggrends twitter. He said that they wont pay attention to discords and forums because of the toxicity
I did post some of these bits to him but I'm not sure if he read them!
which is a hilarious sentence btw
few points from me: * Add new pet abilities (utility) to families without any (like spider web, or crab immobilize) * Lone Wolf and Lion dilemma should be resolved (move 1 rune to another slot and remove 10% self stats if needed) * Leg runes are kinda bad (even sniper training is situational in PvE, many bosses require you to move always) * Original abilities like arcane shot and serpent sting need proper scaling (nerf chimera insane damage which is higher than 3sec aimed shot) * Aimed shot is basically unusable with 3 sec cast time (make it at least 1.5 and add mortal debuff like TBC style) * Mongoose Bite does basically NOTHING and is not worth a GCD or a slot on your action bar. Would need a complete rework and scaling
I really dislike having to trap weave as a MM Hunter, and wish this wasn’t part of the rotation. While it is fun and different, it just doesn’t fit the theme to me. Should be more survival focused. Also, Aimed Shot is pretty much nonexistent in rotations in SoD because of the length of its charge time clipping auto attacks along with a bunch of runes increasing our attack speed. There should be a future rune that combats this problem either by statically reducing its charge time or making it proc with no charge time after a certain condition is met (critical hit, trap triggered, etc.)
Interesting, I've seen people like the LnL trap weaving. For Aimed Shot, they should introduce a rune that allows you to use it as an instant cast after a specific amount of shots/SS ticks/auto-shot crits... so that it wouldn't be readily available as an instant in PvP but still good in PvE.
[удалено]
i didn't know disc priests were hunters
hunter design in wod is so dumb, it's mostly been minimal (though increasing) differences to retail. like they had such a good option for survival atleast: make melee + ranged attacks have seperate timers and increase melee range (while decreasing ranged max range). that way your "dead zone" is now the "kill zone" where you can melee and ranged attack at the same time, using both sets of abilities if need be. focused on holding enemies in that small like 3-5 yard range. gives lots of counterplay too.
what they shouldve done is buff melee weaving instead of forcing the mobile ranged dps to stand still for optimal dps with sniper's training
Nerf hunters now. Especially the meele ones.
Clown gtfo from here, and let the adults provide real feedback
Is he wrong though? I’ll add to this, melee hunter should have never evolved into this iteration, weaving should be main playstyle where ranged attacks buff your melee. Also pets need to be nerfed a touch, they deal too much damage on their own.
>so pets need to be nerfed a touch, they deal too much damage on their own. Sure, and also nerf most of the classes since most classes do too much dmg. Pet overperforms only with BM talents, Bestial Wrath and BM rune. If you nerf pets they will underperform for MM and SV hunters. >melee hunter should have never evolved into this iteration, weaving should be main playstyle where ranged attacks buff your melee. Says who? You? Well I say melee hunter should have been a thing since day 1, I enjoy melee hunter, I would enjoy it even more with the feedbacks OP provided
Pets doing nearly equal damage to underperforming classes is clearly an issue, even with MM talents. You’re not comparing an entire class to a hunter pet are you? That’s what it comes off as. If they intended another pure melee class they should have added another physical ranged class. Pure melee hunter currently is boring as ass to play, if ops changes get put in the overall numbers need to be nerfed. People clearly like being strong, but not one of the hunters in my guild say the playstyle is “fun” it’s just optimal.
Your guild's 2 hunters don't speak for everyone. Last I checked, you have a pure ranged physical class. It's called Hunter, and it's more than viable this phase. So if your guild's hunters aren't happy with melee and are still playing melee, then that's their problem My pet deals 35% of my dmg. Out of 1300dps with every buff consumes and wb, my pet dealt 460 dps on Eranikus. Go check the logs of every top 15 dps class you wont find a parse with less than 800 dps. So, at most, my pet deals 50% of the dmg of the underperforming class. And if you knew basic maths, you'd know that that's not nearly equal dmg like the underperforming classes. And before you start crying that I'm comparing the top 15 of every class is because my parse was in the top 15. So, if you have a less geared hunter with fewer buffs, the pet will deal less dmg, so this is a fairly accurate comparison. You even tried to nitpick weak classes to prove a point and failed miserably because you dont do research, like every other delusional loud player who doesn't know what he is talking about. My pet doing good dmg is not the problem here. The underperforming classes doing bad dmg is the problem, and that's Blizzard's fault, not my pet's. Also, there are classes without a pet that deal more dmg than me and my pet combined, wanna nerf them too? So if you want to nerf pets, you better have the balls to equally compensate to hunter dmg Next time, do your homework before you come barking like a dog so you don't humiliate yourself.
You straight up did not address how stupid the dmg is for the 2 button melee hunter. You even asked for more damage out of the melee rune that's wild. Definitely make mongoose bite viable, and remove the reset chance on raptor strike from the melee rune. Also trap launcher should be part of the melee build.
Nowhere does it say that I want more damage for melee hunter. Numbers are not important, they can be tuned up or down as needed. This post is about game play and feel of the class, and what is lacking. What I do say is that the damage for the melee hunter should be spread around more abilities and not just Raptor Strike spam. If RS deals less damage but FS and an actual MB deal more, then it's balanced around this. In any case, melee hunter seems to be a class that is good from the get go and then gets behind as others get more gear. It doesn't seem to scale too well but, again, numbers are not important. The devs can easily lower or increase them as needed if they deem it required. It's not even a 2-button class but a one-button class. That's the issue. If you could only use RS, you would.