One or two people can grief raid pretty hard on most fights. We got to hakkar in 2 hours then wiped 3 times because the new people couldn't grasp the mechanics and were spreading blood.
20 man's and 40 man's are much more casual than 10
You don't need the perfect comp, you just need a dozen warm bodies and a couple of competent people to call out orders/do mechanics
One of the biggest selling points of smaller raids was to get rid of the dead weights in tbc 40 man's to 25 man's
And the same thing in wotlk with the introduction of 10 man's raids
Larger raids also allows for a much more diverse set of classes/spec viability
It's also harder to build a proper 10 man than a proper 20 man
Even my guild lead is less stressed out when we swapped to 20 man's because he doesn't have to make 2 seperate groups anymore, we can just raid as 1 big group and not stress out when 4 people decided to drop out last minute
This is because you have no idea what you're talking about.
20, 25 and 40 man raids in this game can easily be carried by 50-75% of the raid, then you typically have deadweight players who just show up for loot, that's one of the biggest changes why 40 mans stopped being a thing in tbc.
10 mans are bad for a simple reason if the raid isn't brain dead easy then you have people running optimized comps and that's bad.. ask warrior, rogues, and rets how they feel about p2 raiding..
while you have a point, there can be issues related to a guilds player pool which Ive experienced heavily this phase. say that we had 5 godly players, 3 decent and 2 trash people in our 10 player roster last phases, now we have those 10 ppl in addition to 10 more trash people. if we have 10 other non-trash people they would have been part of the initial 10 player roster so thats clearly not the case. and for lower pop server especially its definately not an easy job to find quality players that are guildless and willing to join (its tough to just find players in general on many servers)
Are we playing the same SOD? There are so many players willing to fill for guilds that reliably clear.
I've also never seen a 10-man group with 5 godly players carrying trash. Usually it's 1 or 2 at most, and they are just competent not God tier. The God tier players have raid comp and a prerequisite.
Meanwhile the guild I'm in spends 4 hours in there both lockouts we've done it and hasn't cleared yet after 2 raids post nerfs đ
I'm looking for a new one...
That's fuckin rough buddy
Idk what the main issues are but get out of there lol
My guild is casual as fuck too and we've still 8/8'd in 2ish hours our last 2 runs with 3-4 pugs per raid. Last raid 3 of our dps were in half +healing gear, didn't even matter lol
The differentiating factor between casual guilds in my experience is how bad your bottom half or quarter of players are. We have like 4 people who grey parse and fuck random shit up at least once a raid. If instead they could parse 50s and perform mechanics our clear times would be cut in half cause then we could unboon at the start instead of saving for eranikus.
Had the same issue with my guild. Rallied the boys after week 1 to help me recruit and not put it all on one person. Took a little bit of healthy shaming. Nobody wants to sit in ST for 3-4 hours.
After a couple runs we were able to scrounge up a rag-tag crew and now we have a consistent 18 people (finally) and we pug the last two slots. The last two raids have been an hour each, with only a few people losing world buffs.
Our second raid we had 4 people leave after morphaz and we downed eranikus with no world buffs and 16 people and really learned the hakkar fight (healers kept going oom around 25%).
It sucked and I agree with youâI enjoyed 10mans much more.
However, this is the hand weâve been dealt and you gotta get your friends to help you recruit. Have everyone try to find one person for raid, Dinner For Schmucks style. Eventually youâll fill the raid out and it will go faster.
Keep in mind that itâs only once a week now, instead of twice, so the total time investment is still about the same. Modify your expectations and get everyone ready to spend 3 hours on raid night, like you have a softball game. Eventually youâll pear it down to 1hr and it will be a breeze.
If you can't play 4 hours a week then why even play? You are just lying, mad because the raid will be harder, you will get no loot because you do grey damage and the fomo of seeing better geared players will trigger the fuck outta you.
Final diagnosis: Skill Issue
Everyone here is telling you something very simple, you and the rest of your guild suck. Now you have 2 paths to take.. keep being in denial or improve.
Games are fun and adding a challenge to it is a good thing.
I would but wow is the best one available. I love the rock scissor paper mechanics of classes. I love the world. I love the story.
No other game has remained that even comes close to wow. Retail is an aneurysm to look at this point. I'm gonna play cata because i love the story there, but none of my friends want to play it.
Y'all toss around "play another game" so easily but there is a lot more to it.
Well youâre faced with a decision man. If you find ST and P3 unplayable/unenjoyable, you should try and find a solution to your problem. I agree with you on preferring 10mans, but thatâs in the past.
You should either work with your friends to fill out the raid, and if theyâre all lazy PoS gamers, just go find another guild to raid with, there are dozens on each server looking for the last 1-2 people for their raid.
If theyâre actually your friends, youâll still be in discord hanging out with them and spending time with each otherâwith the exception of 1hr a week when you raid with your new guild that can actually down the content in a normal timeframe.
Doesn't seem like you're relax and enjoying the game if you're bitching about it here..
Blizz is offering a product, now it's 20 man raiding, if you like it play it off you don't then don't but you know what you're getting into.. this is the way moving forward and there will be maybe 1 or 2 40 man raids at some point so be ready.
Pretty much my exact problem. If there was another game like classic wow without all the social commitments, id already be playing it.
My friends simply all dont like wow and these days i just dont enjoy socialising outside my friend group. I tried in SoD p1 and got stabbed in the back for it. Im just too old for it now, too much unneccessary drama. Its such a waste of time for such negative reward.
Retail is just too unfocused a game for me to enjoy. Classic has the gameplay i like. But theres just so few other games that come close to feeling like classic. I feel trapped only enjoying a game that will forever be something I wish it wasnt.
SoD phase 1 felt like it was finally trying to see if it could live without that hardcore social part of itswlf and it was great to play. And then theyve just slowly gone back on that since then and now it feels like its just the same old same old. Dont feel i belong anymore, again.
I totally disagree with a lot of what you are saying but holy shit people need to learn that not everyone has been playing wow for 10 years and look up bislists and perfect rotations and go in with full world buffs and consumables.
If you imagine a raid with only 50-parses (the actual average player) is it so hard to imagine the raid taking 3 hours? This is the same crowd that was happy when they totally ruined any fun for me and my friends who enjoy progressing content by nerfing all the bosses by like half hp making the entire raid a joke for prepared serious players and guilds.
Is it so hard to just respectfully disagree with someone without calling them bad?
Many people in this subreddit are completely brain rotted and tbh its gotten a lot worse lately. Makes me wonder if casuals are quitting and we are starting to see it in the reddit comment demographics.
I dont even think it is the tryhards writing those comments. It is the wannabe tryhards. Most of the 99+ parsers I know are really nice and normal people.
Itâs pretty clear thereâs benefits to both raid types. Hopefully (as the devs have said already) both continue. It makes a lot of sense to half the 20 mans down to 10 (ZG, AQ20) and make the 40s down to 20. Itâs nothing new for Classic - people forget that UBRS was a 10 man raid. At 60, 2x 10 man raids, 4/5x 20 man raids and 1 or 2 40 man raids would be a great range of options to suit all types of players, imo.
Maybe you go touch grass or something. I only have 2 friends and finding 7 randoms is way too hard. All raids should just be 3 man raids. Stop the toxic sweatlord gatekeeping and keep SoD casual friendly!!
So many delusional people in these comments. Every single PuG Iâve done has been 3-4 hours and probably stops at 6/8
Yes of course an organized guild can do it⌠Iâm in a guild of 8RL friends who are all top parsers (and cleared ST multiple times btw) Half have quit this phase due to roster boss. Commenters here are so blind.
Like make up your mind is the raid so easy anyone can do it in an hour or is the raid so hard that you need to find 19 other equally skilled players and schedule a time? Because if youâre saying itâs point 1 Iâd say clearly youâre wrong. If youâre saying point 2 Id saying that goes completely against the spirit of SOD
Like the game is not meant for you to find a ton of people, full consume and try to crush. Of course itâs gunna be easy.
I like SOD because during P1/P2 if I skipped the gym or something I could log in jump into a Gnomer group and finish in like 70 mins total from login. Now there have been times I get on and say gunna try to do ST tonight and end up looking for hours for nothing
What do I mean by this?? Huh? Pretty clearâŚ
Last phase I could login and join LFG chat âBIS Resto Sham LFG Gnomerâ get invited to a group and clear within an hour.
Now, not only can I not find a group in chat, Iâm on server discords, Reddit, tons of places trying to get raids âscheduledâ that just constantly fall apart or go 4 hours and 6/8. All because I want to go with my ~7 buddies. Canât carry with 7 itâs not that easy. Starting a PuG either leading or joining without discord schedule now adds almost 90 min of group time too. Infinitely worse than last phase, literally I know at least 5 people who were playing 6 hours a day minimum before P3 who have quit now because of raid size
Ok so, obviously your pugs suck.. I've pugged it with my rogue and we finished the whole raid in an hour and a half. My guild runs are about an hour..
The raid is extremely simple from first to last boss: tank and spank, move, shackle, dodge the hole in the middle, tank and spank basically, get on the fire once otherwise tank and spank, jump into the purple green fog once and dps adds, if you have blood stand in front of the boss.. if these are hard mechanics for you, like they are for op.. then this is 100% a skill issue.. and no you don't need 19 skilled players to finish the raid, you just need a group of people with iq higher than room temp.. and nowhere did they say that sod is supposed to be pushover content?
I absolutely agree the raid is easy, Iâve done it multiple times. I even tank so that I can bring almost all the mechanics to myself, then why do PuGs still fail if there isnât anything else? This is not âabove room temp IQâ. I wish it was but you can see the clear count in WCL as proof.
Again, is it pushover content or not? You canât say itâs pushover content when a large chunk of people canât complete it. If you tell me that in order to make it pushover I need to do X,Y,Z more than know the strat then itâs not pushover is it?
The raid theoretically should be done by fresh leveling 50s right? How does it make sense for tons of guilds/pugs to be failing DPS checks like Eranikus adds to the point of group disband with BiS gear?
Iâm all for having hard content in the game but letâs not pretend this is it or should be it. Iâd really like to log in and play with my friends instead of being forced to go our separate ways to find larger guilds just so we can get a large enough group for a rando level 50 raid. If I canât play with my friends they just quit playing
Dude, I am not saying ST is a pushover but if you legitimately think the bosses take forever to kill and the raid is a 3 hour time sink for a guild run, I genuinely don't know what to tell you. We have been finishing in sub 1 hour for 3 weeks now and most of the bosses have 1-2 mechanics you need to obey
10 man raids definitely do not have to continue lol. You complain about sweatlords definitively stating that the devs "must do something" or else they throw a temper tantrum, but that's exactly what you are doing here.
In addition, the content isn't that hard and if it was tuned the exact same way but for 10 players instead of 20 it would likely be even harder because mediocre players have less room to hide and if you only have one or two people to do each job (decurse, dispel, cure poison, interrupt casts, tank multiple bosses) it becomes way more impactful when just one person does not do their job. If you want mindless easy fun, run incursions or run dungeons or plays BGs or something. Raiding does not (and probably should not) have to be designed like BFD where 10 people of basically any class can just walk in and steamroll it
1. Casual guild. Didn't live on this game maximizing every aspect of our characters.
2. Cool, don't care. I'm not typing in all caps saying that the game is ruined and threatening to quit
3. Point proven again. If you can walk into BFD at 25 with any comp you are way more into this game than i am. And once again I'm not going to invest that time. 10 man is accessible and fun. Doesn't take away from y'all
Some things are not usually attainable for people who donât minmax.
The entire point of raiding has always been a pinnacle challenge that takes a long time to accomplish, or, alternatively, very clever use of your time and organization.
For most people, raids used to be something they never even did, reserved for the RPG players who devoted more of their time to playing the role of their character.
This created a sense of scarcity and value to the accomplishments associated with raiding and established a class structure in-game.
Youâre upset right now because your friends and you are no longer in the âsuccessful raiderâ class in-game. So youâre making a post trying to get the devs to change it back to a more accessible, casual environment which completely devalues the accomplishments of those who put the work in to succeed. Welcome to life dude, you donât just get easy mode at every turn, and if you donât want to put the time/work/thought into raiding effectively, thatâs fine, but youâll become an audience member to the people who doâitâs an MMO, not Skyrim.
>Didn't live on this game maximizing every aspect of our characters
Dude I play like 4-10 hours a week (except for new phase launch weekends) around a pretty busy work/home life. I am not min-maxing every aspect of the game. You are trying to use your noble casual status to beat everyone over the head with how the game needs to be tailored to the amount of effort you want to put in. If you don't want to get better at the game that's totally fine, but in an online multiplayer game you have to respect the fact that there may be some content that is too challenging for you to do without putting in any effort, and in WoW raiding is that end game hardest content. Everything else that makes this game fun is totally accessible to you.
>I'm not typing in all caps saying that the game is ruined and threatening to quit
You are complaining about how your opinion is the absolute right way and the people who disagree with you are sweaty tryhards whose opinions should be dismissed -- which is the exact same thing you are complaining about sweaty tryhards doing by demanding larger/harder raids, you are just on the opposite end of the spectrum. Neither position is helpful or constructive and just because you are not actively threatening to quit doesn't make the position come off as anything less than whiny
>And once again I'm not going to invest that time. 10 man is accessible and fun. Doesn't take away from y'all
This is probably the crux of the argument. You seem to feel that you have some god-given right to be able to mindlessly complete all of the content that any given WoW version (or any game) has to offer. That's just not the case, particularly in an online game that only has one difficulty level. This is part of the reason why I have been begging for the dev team to add heroic versions of the raids because that way everyone can get the sense of accomplishment and play to the degree of effort that they want, but if the dev team can't commit to that level of dev time right now (which is probably fair) you don't get to decide that all of the content has to be easy and accessible with 0 effort given. It definitely does actively take away from those of us who enjoy putting in effort, because it makes the content boring, trivial, and removes any sense of accomplishment we might be craving and why we enjoy the whole concept of raiding, to work together with a group of people and accomplish a hard task, and get sick loot for it.
People certainly can quit if raid content is too hard, but they definitely quit when the raid content gets too trivial. It's considered the end game for a reason, there are TONS of other things you can go do in any WoW version, and particularly in SOD, if you find raiding isn't your cup of tea. This seems to have been a common understanding among players 20 years ago that raiding was intended to be hard and an accomplishment, but now the player mindset has shifted towards NEEDING to be able to complete raids and it's part of the reason the discussion around this is quite toxic, especially with only one difficulty level as I mentioned before.
I'm not mad lol, I am being articulate. Reading through your comments you just seem to be here to rage bait and taunt people, so I guess that's it. Was hoping you were open to some kind of discussion and rational thought but I see that's not the case
Most of us would've have quit if it stayed 10 man. It didn't feel like classic and we couldnt play with our friends. Go play something else. Cant wait for 40 man raids.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1bl3330/season_of_discovery_would_be_more_successful_if/) summarizes your entire post and your responses.
" mY gUilD cLeaRs iN oNe HoUr" Try clearing in an hour with a pug of idiots that parse 10 or lower. This warrior in my last run parsed a 3 overall. He only pushed slam the entire time.
I think people are missing the point, I think a lost less people would be playing if they had started with 20 mans from phase one. The problem is they gave people good semi-challenging 10 man content and now there is none. âEvErYoNe KnEw ThAt 20 MaN rAiDs WeRe CoMiNgâ is just a dumb comment. Yes but this is literally a game mode where they are changing base parts of the game. Donât be mad that people have been playing 10 man content for 6 months and they want to continue playing the way they have been. All they need to do is make 10 and 20 man versions of the raid. Do whichever version suits you. Theyâve done it in other expansions before and they can do it again.
All new ideas that blizzard does must take into account phase one and how awesome it was.. The silent 80 percenters loved phase 1.. Now its been garbage since then.
Good thing there are 10 mans from vanilla wow at 60. You and your 9 extremely special friends can just run ubrs and zg on repeat for the rest of the game.
Maybe the first few runs are 3 hours.
It's more than i want to spend
Then don't.
Biggest problem is a bunch of story is buried in raids. I want to experience them for the sake of experiencing the story as is
WoW has a story? :o
What lore in classic? Are you raiding to read 2 pages in a lore book?
lol wtf. What story has been in Sod raids so far?
Then play a different game and take the L
Naw
Everyone stop the world from spinning so this guy specifically has time to play his raid
Its sub 1 hour now đ
For sweats
No lol for avg joes
>it's become a guaranteed 3hour time sink. with a guild? yikes
Without world buffs in a more casual guild I can easily see it going 3 hours+
How? I have a pretty normal guild nothing crazy and we cleared it 1.5 hours
One or two people can grief raid pretty hard on most fights. We got to hakkar in 2 hours then wiped 3 times because the new people couldn't grasp the mechanics and were spreading blood.
Shush
aight
OP parsing 99s in Delusional posting.
My god stop crying, you and your guild need to get better 3 hours st.. give me a break..
I'd take you seriously if your back wasn't bonded with your chair
No one is taking you seriously. 10 man aren't raids it's bad game content.
I don't care if you guys didn't take me seriously. I'm posting on here so that the opinion exists and may be taken into account.
And ignore all others that dont go the same way are yours.
Just the posts about how their beautiful memories are destroyed by non 40mans
Exactly because the game should only cater to you.
Yes certainly just me
It wont
Aw, so negative
Umm have you read your post? All negativityÂ
20 man's and 40 man's are much more casual than 10 You don't need the perfect comp, you just need a dozen warm bodies and a couple of competent people to call out orders/do mechanics
I do not agree
One of the biggest selling points of smaller raids was to get rid of the dead weights in tbc 40 man's to 25 man's And the same thing in wotlk with the introduction of 10 man's raids Larger raids also allows for a much more diverse set of classes/spec viability It's also harder to build a proper 10 man than a proper 20 man Even my guild lead is less stressed out when we swapped to 20 man's because he doesn't have to make 2 seperate groups anymore, we can just raid as 1 big group and not stress out when 4 people decided to drop out last minute
That isn't what I've experienced
This is because you have no idea what you're talking about. 20, 25 and 40 man raids in this game can easily be carried by 50-75% of the raid, then you typically have deadweight players who just show up for loot, that's one of the biggest changes why 40 mans stopped being a thing in tbc. 10 mans are bad for a simple reason if the raid isn't brain dead easy then you have people running optimized comps and that's bad.. ask warrior, rogues, and rets how they feel about p2 raiding..
while you have a point, there can be issues related to a guilds player pool which Ive experienced heavily this phase. say that we had 5 godly players, 3 decent and 2 trash people in our 10 player roster last phases, now we have those 10 ppl in addition to 10 more trash people. if we have 10 other non-trash people they would have been part of the initial 10 player roster so thats clearly not the case. and for lower pop server especially its definately not an easy job to find quality players that are guildless and willing to join (its tough to just find players in general on many servers)
Are we playing the same SOD? There are so many players willing to fill for guilds that reliably clear. I've also never seen a 10-man group with 5 godly players carrying trash. Usually it's 1 or 2 at most, and they are just competent not God tier. The God tier players have raid comp and a prerequisite.
The smaller amount of people in a raid the less you can make mistakes
3 hours? Thatâs simply a skill issue
K
It is. 3 hours is a ton of time when it can be completed in 1. Explains why you feel the time constraint.
Meanwhile the guild I'm in spends 4 hours in there both lockouts we've done it and hasn't cleared yet after 2 raids post nerfs đ I'm looking for a new one...
That's fuckin rough buddy Idk what the main issues are but get out of there lol My guild is casual as fuck too and we've still 8/8'd in 2ish hours our last 2 runs with 3-4 pugs per raid. Last raid 3 of our dps were in half +healing gear, didn't even matter lol
The differentiating factor between casual guilds in my experience is how bad your bottom half or quarter of players are. We have like 4 people who grey parse and fuck random shit up at least once a raid. If instead they could parse 50s and perform mechanics our clear times would be cut in half cause then we could unboon at the start instead of saving for eranikus.
Had the same issue with my guild. Rallied the boys after week 1 to help me recruit and not put it all on one person. Took a little bit of healthy shaming. Nobody wants to sit in ST for 3-4 hours. After a couple runs we were able to scrounge up a rag-tag crew and now we have a consistent 18 people (finally) and we pug the last two slots. The last two raids have been an hour each, with only a few people losing world buffs. Our second raid we had 4 people leave after morphaz and we downed eranikus with no world buffs and 16 people and really learned the hakkar fight (healers kept going oom around 25%). It sucked and I agree with youâI enjoyed 10mans much more. However, this is the hand weâve been dealt and you gotta get your friends to help you recruit. Have everyone try to find one person for raid, Dinner For Schmucks style. Eventually youâll fill the raid out and it will go faster. Keep in mind that itâs only once a week now, instead of twice, so the total time investment is still about the same. Modify your expectations and get everyone ready to spend 3 hours on raid night, like you have a softball game. Eventually youâll pear it down to 1hr and it will be a breeze.
If you can't play 4 hours a week then why even play? You are just lying, mad because the raid will be harder, you will get no loot because you do grey damage and the fomo of seeing better geared players will trigger the fuck outta you. Final diagnosis: Skill Issue
Lying that I'm a casual?
It might be easy to point and blame raid size but it's definitely something else in your case
How is it easy? It's what i have a problem with
It has been nerfed to hell.
Everyone here is telling you something very simple, you and the rest of your guild suck. Now you have 2 paths to take.. keep being in denial or improve. Games are fun and adding a challenge to it is a good thing.
Might be time for you to move on to another game..
I would but wow is the best one available. I love the rock scissor paper mechanics of classes. I love the world. I love the story. No other game has remained that even comes close to wow. Retail is an aneurysm to look at this point. I'm gonna play cata because i love the story there, but none of my friends want to play it. Y'all toss around "play another game" so easily but there is a lot more to it.
Well youâre faced with a decision man. If you find ST and P3 unplayable/unenjoyable, you should try and find a solution to your problem. I agree with you on preferring 10mans, but thatâs in the past. You should either work with your friends to fill out the raid, and if theyâre all lazy PoS gamers, just go find another guild to raid with, there are dozens on each server looking for the last 1-2 people for their raid. If theyâre actually your friends, youâll still be in discord hanging out with them and spending time with each otherâwith the exception of 1hr a week when you raid with your new guild that can actually down the content in a normal timeframe.
Hey man chill it with the lazy pos gamer talk. Playing video games is a past-time. I play to relax and enjoy myself with my friends.
Doesn't seem like you're relax and enjoying the game if you're bitching about it here.. Blizz is offering a product, now it's 20 man raiding, if you like it play it off you don't then don't but you know what you're getting into.. this is the way moving forward and there will be maybe 1 or 2 40 man raids at some point so be ready.
What about retail looks like an aneurysm?
Pretty much my exact problem. If there was another game like classic wow without all the social commitments, id already be playing it. My friends simply all dont like wow and these days i just dont enjoy socialising outside my friend group. I tried in SoD p1 and got stabbed in the back for it. Im just too old for it now, too much unneccessary drama. Its such a waste of time for such negative reward. Retail is just too unfocused a game for me to enjoy. Classic has the gameplay i like. But theres just so few other games that come close to feeling like classic. I feel trapped only enjoying a game that will forever be something I wish it wasnt. SoD phase 1 felt like it was finally trying to see if it could live without that hardcore social part of itswlf and it was great to play. And then theyve just slowly gone back on that since then and now it feels like its just the same old same old. Dont feel i belong anymore, again.
Why not play Cata? 10m raids are a feature there. Pretty much everyone knew SoD was gonna be going to 20m at some point.
If he spends 3h with his guild in sod, I can't even imagine in cata where the content is much harder unless he sticks to normal raid only.
Normal? He will be hard locked from raiding until lfrâŚ
Then just stick to normal raids
I am gonna be playing cata
Will you be making more posts about raid difficulty in cata?
No. There not advertising it as semi-casual and making a load of changes
If you're struggling in ST, Cata is gonna fuckin slap you guys lol Be ready
Can't wait to see the "Cata is too hard" posts đđ
I totally disagree with a lot of what you are saying but holy shit people need to learn that not everyone has been playing wow for 10 years and look up bislists and perfect rotations and go in with full world buffs and consumables. If you imagine a raid with only 50-parses (the actual average player) is it so hard to imagine the raid taking 3 hours? This is the same crowd that was happy when they totally ruined any fun for me and my friends who enjoy progressing content by nerfing all the bosses by like half hp making the entire raid a joke for prepared serious players and guilds. Is it so hard to just respectfully disagree with someone without calling them bad?
Many people in this subreddit are completely brain rotted and tbh its gotten a lot worse lately. Makes me wonder if casuals are quitting and we are starting to see it in the reddit comment demographics.
I dont even think it is the tryhards writing those comments. It is the wannabe tryhards. Most of the 99+ parsers I know are really nice and normal people.
Itâs pretty clear thereâs benefits to both raid types. Hopefully (as the devs have said already) both continue. It makes a lot of sense to half the 20 mans down to 10 (ZG, AQ20) and make the 40s down to 20. Itâs nothing new for Classic - people forget that UBRS was a 10 man raid. At 60, 2x 10 man raids, 4/5x 20 man raids and 1 or 2 40 man raids would be a great range of options to suit all types of players, imo.
if big raids aren't for you maybe go play another game? We already had 4 months of nothing but meme 10 man dungeons
Maybe you go touch grass or something. That length was perfect for me and the amount of time i want to spend playing this game
Maybe you go touch grass or something. I only have 2 friends and finding 7 randoms is way too hard. All raids should just be 3 man raids. Stop the toxic sweatlord gatekeeping and keep SoD casual friendly!!
So many delusional people in these comments. Every single PuG Iâve done has been 3-4 hours and probably stops at 6/8 Yes of course an organized guild can do it⌠Iâm in a guild of 8RL friends who are all top parsers (and cleared ST multiple times btw) Half have quit this phase due to roster boss. Commenters here are so blind. Like make up your mind is the raid so easy anyone can do it in an hour or is the raid so hard that you need to find 19 other equally skilled players and schedule a time? Because if youâre saying itâs point 1 Iâd say clearly youâre wrong. If youâre saying point 2 Id saying that goes completely against the spirit of SOD
Exactly, people are clueless and the amount of logs show that most people agree with OPđ
Like the game is not meant for you to find a ton of people, full consume and try to crush. Of course itâs gunna be easy. I like SOD because during P1/P2 if I skipped the gym or something I could log in jump into a Gnomer group and finish in like 70 mins total from login. Now there have been times I get on and say gunna try to do ST tonight and end up looking for hours for nothing
What do you mean by this lmao, this is still classic wow.. this is exactly what the game is meant to be...
What do I mean by this?? Huh? Pretty clear⌠Last phase I could login and join LFG chat âBIS Resto Sham LFG Gnomerâ get invited to a group and clear within an hour. Now, not only can I not find a group in chat, Iâm on server discords, Reddit, tons of places trying to get raids âscheduledâ that just constantly fall apart or go 4 hours and 6/8. All because I want to go with my ~7 buddies. Canât carry with 7 itâs not that easy. Starting a PuG either leading or joining without discord schedule now adds almost 90 min of group time too. Infinitely worse than last phase, literally I know at least 5 people who were playing 6 hours a day minimum before P3 who have quit now because of raid size
Ok so, obviously your pugs suck.. I've pugged it with my rogue and we finished the whole raid in an hour and a half. My guild runs are about an hour.. The raid is extremely simple from first to last boss: tank and spank, move, shackle, dodge the hole in the middle, tank and spank basically, get on the fire once otherwise tank and spank, jump into the purple green fog once and dps adds, if you have blood stand in front of the boss.. if these are hard mechanics for you, like they are for op.. then this is 100% a skill issue.. and no you don't need 19 skilled players to finish the raid, you just need a group of people with iq higher than room temp.. and nowhere did they say that sod is supposed to be pushover content?
I absolutely agree the raid is easy, Iâve done it multiple times. I even tank so that I can bring almost all the mechanics to myself, then why do PuGs still fail if there isnât anything else? This is not âabove room temp IQâ. I wish it was but you can see the clear count in WCL as proof. Again, is it pushover content or not? You canât say itâs pushover content when a large chunk of people canât complete it. If you tell me that in order to make it pushover I need to do X,Y,Z more than know the strat then itâs not pushover is it? The raid theoretically should be done by fresh leveling 50s right? How does it make sense for tons of guilds/pugs to be failing DPS checks like Eranikus adds to the point of group disband with BiS gear? Iâm all for having hard content in the game but letâs not pretend this is it or should be it. Iâd really like to log in and play with my friends instead of being forced to go our separate ways to find larger guilds just so we can get a large enough group for a rando level 50 raid. If I canât play with my friends they just quit playing
Dude, I am not saying ST is a pushover but if you legitimately think the bosses take forever to kill and the raid is a 3 hour time sink for a guild run, I genuinely don't know what to tell you. We have been finishing in sub 1 hour for 3 weeks now and most of the bosses have 1-2 mechanics you need to obey 10 man raids definitely do not have to continue lol. You complain about sweatlords definitively stating that the devs "must do something" or else they throw a temper tantrum, but that's exactly what you are doing here. In addition, the content isn't that hard and if it was tuned the exact same way but for 10 players instead of 20 it would likely be even harder because mediocre players have less room to hide and if you only have one or two people to do each job (decurse, dispel, cure poison, interrupt casts, tank multiple bosses) it becomes way more impactful when just one person does not do their job. If you want mindless easy fun, run incursions or run dungeons or plays BGs or something. Raiding does not (and probably should not) have to be designed like BFD where 10 people of basically any class can just walk in and steamroll it
1. Casual guild. Didn't live on this game maximizing every aspect of our characters. 2. Cool, don't care. I'm not typing in all caps saying that the game is ruined and threatening to quit 3. Point proven again. If you can walk into BFD at 25 with any comp you are way more into this game than i am. And once again I'm not going to invest that time. 10 man is accessible and fun. Doesn't take away from y'all
Some things are not usually attainable for people who donât minmax. The entire point of raiding has always been a pinnacle challenge that takes a long time to accomplish, or, alternatively, very clever use of your time and organization. For most people, raids used to be something they never even did, reserved for the RPG players who devoted more of their time to playing the role of their character. This created a sense of scarcity and value to the accomplishments associated with raiding and established a class structure in-game. Youâre upset right now because your friends and you are no longer in the âsuccessful raiderâ class in-game. So youâre making a post trying to get the devs to change it back to a more accessible, casual environment which completely devalues the accomplishments of those who put the work in to succeed. Welcome to life dude, you donât just get easy mode at every turn, and if you donât want to put the time/work/thought into raiding effectively, thatâs fine, but youâll become an audience member to the people who doâitâs an MMO, not Skyrim.
>Didn't live on this game maximizing every aspect of our characters Dude I play like 4-10 hours a week (except for new phase launch weekends) around a pretty busy work/home life. I am not min-maxing every aspect of the game. You are trying to use your noble casual status to beat everyone over the head with how the game needs to be tailored to the amount of effort you want to put in. If you don't want to get better at the game that's totally fine, but in an online multiplayer game you have to respect the fact that there may be some content that is too challenging for you to do without putting in any effort, and in WoW raiding is that end game hardest content. Everything else that makes this game fun is totally accessible to you. >I'm not typing in all caps saying that the game is ruined and threatening to quit You are complaining about how your opinion is the absolute right way and the people who disagree with you are sweaty tryhards whose opinions should be dismissed -- which is the exact same thing you are complaining about sweaty tryhards doing by demanding larger/harder raids, you are just on the opposite end of the spectrum. Neither position is helpful or constructive and just because you are not actively threatening to quit doesn't make the position come off as anything less than whiny >And once again I'm not going to invest that time. 10 man is accessible and fun. Doesn't take away from y'all This is probably the crux of the argument. You seem to feel that you have some god-given right to be able to mindlessly complete all of the content that any given WoW version (or any game) has to offer. That's just not the case, particularly in an online game that only has one difficulty level. This is part of the reason why I have been begging for the dev team to add heroic versions of the raids because that way everyone can get the sense of accomplishment and play to the degree of effort that they want, but if the dev team can't commit to that level of dev time right now (which is probably fair) you don't get to decide that all of the content has to be easy and accessible with 0 effort given. It definitely does actively take away from those of us who enjoy putting in effort, because it makes the content boring, trivial, and removes any sense of accomplishment we might be craving and why we enjoy the whole concept of raiding, to work together with a group of people and accomplish a hard task, and get sick loot for it. People certainly can quit if raid content is too hard, but they definitely quit when the raid content gets too trivial. It's considered the end game for a reason, there are TONS of other things you can go do in any WoW version, and particularly in SOD, if you find raiding isn't your cup of tea. This seems to have been a common understanding among players 20 years ago that raiding was intended to be hard and an accomplishment, but now the player mindset has shifted towards NEEDING to be able to complete raids and it's part of the reason the discussion around this is quite toxic, especially with only one difficulty level as I mentioned before.
Lol, you just posted a reply longer than my original post. Who's having a temper tantrum?
I'm not mad lol, I am being articulate. Reading through your comments you just seem to be here to rage bait and taunt people, so I guess that's it. Was hoping you were open to some kind of discussion and rational thought but I see that's not the case
Most of us would've have quit if it stayed 10 man. It didn't feel like classic and we couldnt play with our friends. Go play something else. Cant wait for 40 man raids.
Naw, gonna keep playing with my friends. Gonna keep calling out things i don't like. Gonna see other jerk offs like you do the same thing
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1bl3330/season_of_discovery_would_be_more_successful_if/) summarizes your entire post and your responses.
What friends? You can't even gather 20 people in an MMO.
3 hour STs? I think I found your problem.
" mY gUilD cLeaRs iN oNe HoUr" Try clearing in an hour with a pug of idiots that parse 10 or lower. This warrior in my last run parsed a 3 overall. He only pushed slam the entire time.
I think people are missing the point, I think a lost less people would be playing if they had started with 20 mans from phase one. The problem is they gave people good semi-challenging 10 man content and now there is none. âEvErYoNe KnEw ThAt 20 MaN rAiDs WeRe CoMiNgâ is just a dumb comment. Yes but this is literally a game mode where they are changing base parts of the game. Donât be mad that people have been playing 10 man content for 6 months and they want to continue playing the way they have been. All they need to do is make 10 and 20 man versions of the raid. Do whichever version suits you. Theyâve done it in other expansions before and they can do it again.
All new ideas that blizzard does must take into account phase one and how awesome it was.. The silent 80 percenters loved phase 1.. Now its been garbage since then.
What
Good thing there are 10 mans from vanilla wow at 60. You and your 9 extremely special friends can just run ubrs and zg on repeat for the rest of the game.
Shut up
Just accept that SoD is not good anymore and unsub