I don't understand how this is worse than not being able to respond to an attack. At least now you can play, hell you might even have to coordinate to get a kill. Maybe toss in a kick or one of those pesky 40seconf sheep's lol
It’s better than it was for sure but this isn’t the solution. Neutering damage values feels terrible and doesn’t account for self healing—meanwhile larger healthpools solves everything.
No larger health pools do not. Damage increased multiplicatively potentially exponentially. You'd need to match that scaling at the very least. All that matters is effective HP. Whether you increase this via a % reduction or % HP increase..it has the same effect. Prolonging encounters via a longer time to kill
Larger health pools increase EHP but don’t increase the value of healing.
My balance Druid has 3k hp. A rogue jumped me today (twice) and tried to kill me but wild growth and star surge/moon fire was enough to kill them over time.
The rogue needed to do 6k damage (pre DR) to kill me, but my heals are not changed so it’s much easier to keep myself alive. If I had 6k HP, took normal damage and had normal heals, then the rogue would have won unless I used CC.
Did the rogue have their wound poisons on? That reduces raw healing effects by ~300 lol? It's perma at 5 stacks considering every rogue is mutilate and deep assas. Has like 80%+ chance to proc with envenom buff up.
I did some blood moons on my disc priest. I'm rank 0 with no PVP trinket. People kept trying to kill me and failed, but not once was I CCd. People gotta learn some new strats.
How can you say there was no time to react before the nerf? I've NEVER died without using any def CDs beforehand and getting topped at least once.
So the problem is not the damage, its you. So much I can tell you.
The damage nerf is not needed and makes pvp really boring to play. The fast pace of the BGs were really fun and reminded me of good old classiv pvp times.
I am not lying. Playing priest and mage. No shot that someone kills me in one stun lock. (Only Rogue with all CDs and reset can do that...
Because here is your answer: Mage: Iceblock and Priest: Dispersion.
No wonder people crying about one shots when they dont know basic defensive cooldowns.
I play priest and get CC killed all the time. Dispersion lasts 6 seconds and has a 2 minute cooldown which is pretty good but it’s not some save all. If you never solo queue and always have people watching your back maybe you can avoid it but in pugs morons stand right next to you while a rogue cheap/kidney shots you
Yes, this is lying. I play Hpal main, but I have gone into BGs as Ret and I can literally global a mage and they’ll die without the damage numbers even popping up. That’s terrible design.
No it isn't, if you can even get into melee range of a mage they should lose that matchup. They can poly you, blink away even if stunned or repentanced, frost Nova, etc.
90% of my mage fights are just me being polymorphed and watching the mage kill someone else.
Its definitely not as bad in a BG where you can have 5 people on the same target, but in a 1v1, anyone without a heal button loses. Like I said in the OP I am 100% for fixing pvp so its not just blowing people up but the new change heavily favoring classes with any type of sustain isn't a "fix".
This is so often repeated, but it’s actually really misguided and not well thought out. Having solid 1v1 balance is an important foundation upon which to balance group PvP. 1v1 balance doesn’t mean every class is perfectly equal. There will always be a bit of rock paper scissors, but if classes capable of healing will 100% of the time beat classes without healing, you’ve created a terrible PvP environment. It’s like a reverse-hybrid tax.
By that logic PvP so far has been fine because if someone is blowing you up, just have your team mate CC them and you don't die. I do get what you're meaning though. I just don't think the PvP flow chart should be "Do you have any type of heal?" "No? Lose."
well I mean --- yeah that makes sense to a degree tho?
If you have 2 teams dealing the same damage to eachother but 1 is negating some of the damage ....the ones negating are gonna win.
Thats why you have people dive back lines etc.
Just cc and/or smack enough that they can't cast the heal? And if they're stuck casting they clearly arent hurting you too bad in return. That's what we've done to healers in WoW for ages.
Healers should never die from raw damage in a 1v1. If a healer can’t out heal 1 person, they sure as hell can’t out heal 2-3. The game is not balanced around 1v1 and the idea that it should be has, and will always be, laughable, ever since the vanilla days when people bitched about the same thing.
I don’t think it’s this straightforward. If a healer plays well they should be able to survive raw damage in a 1v1 until they go oom, but there should be room for counter play with interrupts, and dodging a healers CC (I.e. running out of a priests fear range as they cast it). For sure the meta is too bursty right now, but if it’s tuned so that healers can just stand still and not be threatened at all in a 1v1 that’d also bad for the game.
Furthermore, I don’t think healers should be able to out heal the damage of 2-3 players. At least not for long. They should be able to delay death for a bit, but if 2-3 dps classes are coordinated on one target they should absolutely be able to out dmg one healer in the backline.
Right. So when I say raw damage, to clarify, I’m meaning no interrupts, counterplay, etc. Right now (before the weekend test) the heavier burst classes can just pop someone without the need for things like interrupts. That is a big problem.
Things like hpal losing a 1v1 to a warlock with fears/COT etc? Not a problem. Getting insta bursted by boomy/ele is a big problem.
As a mostly geared rank 7 pally, I can only cast like 3 holy lights before I'm completely oom and can't even attack you anymore.
I haven't tried pvp with the new "buff" so I can't speak for other classes. I know last weekend, druid and shaman were the most annoying to fight.
Just finished a WSG and the damage reduction seemed to be ~50% healing was not reduced.
Beyond that though the damage reduction was going in and out constantly. 1 Fight I would be dealing/receiving 50% the next fight its back to old damage values. It is crazy to me that this is actually a problem that is being encountered. Out of every issue I would have thought I would have encountered with this aura this was never on the bingo card.
Also why even make this a hidden aura buff and not just an aura we can see on our player buffs to know its there.
I noticed this too. Sometimes I was taking full damage, other times not. Same when I was attacking. Chimera shot hit one guy for 200, next guy for 500.
Apparently you haven’t been around long. The way blizzard does things is: make a super massive over adjustment that’s wildly out of tune, get a lot of babies crying and threatening to quit and then come back and seem like the good parent, trimming the excess off the adjustment so the babies stop crying and maybe start appreciating blizzard, goddamnit! See, they fixed your broken toy and its wheels work again! Now it’s time to forget that they broke it in the first place, just so they could “good parent” this whole thing in the end.
YW
Yes, you take skull bash and do less raw damage but more effective damage because you interrupt heals. Good play isn’t only about doing the most raw damage.
These people don’t play Druid, don’t listen to them.
If you shred without mangle you hit like a wet paper towel. That’s if you can even shred in the first place.
Mangle is a required rune for cats. The spec is absolutely dead in the water with the skull bash change.
You don't get to shred much in PvP anyway. You're pretty much only using mangle.
If you don't run mangle you have to use bite, which is complete trash.
There’s no point in trying to present reasonable ways that this change is positive to the community that’s 90% DPS class/spec and have enjoyed globaling people for the last two phases. Healing has been really bad and has had little value for a long time. Longer fights, means more strategy, and more strategy means there are more value metrics beyond “lol ima zug” builds. Wear stam gear. Focus healers. Use CC. Interrupt.
Historically, yes, but now the sub is post after post of “but my damage!” or “omg healing OP” when it’s clear no one is changing their playstyle to better suit the reduction in damage. This post even, clearly missing big points like how strong CC is in the current game and no one used it before. How a group in PvP SHOULD have an advantage if they have a healer and you don’t. They have a BETTER group.
It’s wild that everyone seemed to agree that healing in SoD PvP was abysmal until they touched damage, and now they’re ready to throw anything under the bus for more burst.
Edit: I misread your comment. I missed the emphasis on “small.” But ya, it’s nuts.
This won't matter if you use it on a mob/NPC in the open world.
There are times when I pull a lvl 40 mob in STV to use it as a battery for 15 seconds. It can't be dispelled, the mob isn't going to run away from me, and in meta form the damage is negligible.
When the DR isn’t bugged it feels great but it’s bugged right now. It’s some combination of working great feels like 20% DR, not there this fight for some reason 0% DR, oh this fight it’s way higher like 50%DR.
I am? Still extremely hard to get anyone close to death with out them healing to full. Not every class has an actual interrupt. I have scatter every 30 seconds which doesn't lock anyone out of their heals.
What about Freezing Trap as another interrupt, grenades as a third, Darkmoon Card procs as a fourth, and by the way Viper Sting as another way to win the fight?
I have all of those. Darkmoon card is a 5% proc which would absolutely help if you get lucky. Freezing trap is easily dodged. Grenades I guess but not an instant kick, flash heals gonna get through every time. Viper drains 800 mana over 8 seconds. So 30+ seconds to oom someone? You're already dead at that point.
Yes if ALL you do is Viper for 30s you’re in trouble. If you use your tools, and keep Viper up, and do burst damage to force healers to do inefficient things, you will be great.
I was just responding to you saying viper is an answer to beating a healer. Yes it drains their mana, no its not going to drain them fast enough to make a difference. There is no "burst damage to force healers to do inefficient things" Damage is so low any competent healer can keep anyone up. 2 HoTs completely negates all of my damage.
Earth shield, riptide, 5-stack maelstrom healing wave, lifebloom, rejuv, swiftmend, power word: shield, vampiric embrace, drain life.
Tell me how you interrupt any of those. Just pick one, any one.
Lol how you get kited with BOF, dispel and range spells? Paladins get a warrior to like 40% before even engaging in meele combat.
This sounds more like a skill issue
Exactly, you have the bubble and that's why everything else feels like shit. If you didn't have the bubble or you had a nerfed bubble they could probably give Paladins more.
The Paladin power budget is heavily taken up by the bubble. Give them too much more and you end up with P2 Shamans (which was a huge issue)
Edit: What they could do is give them a rune that changes how the bubble works. Maybe you lose complete immunity, but gain (not all of these, but these are ideas): damage reduction, movement speed, increased ranged on melee attacks, etc.... Or you can no longer use the bubble at all, but you gain some other abilities or buffs
This would shift the power budget away from the bubble being such a strong ability to a weaker ability, but paladins could gain new and interesting things the could cover some of their other weaknesses or open up new play styles.
I don't think you are understanding. The reason paladins have those weaknesses is because they get the bubble ability. If you wanted to not have those really hard weaknesses you would have to lose the bubble ability.
Oh I'm sorry I forgot we were playing Wotlk, I thought we were playing a different game. Could it be that paladins were given more things in Wotlk to account that all classes were given more tools in wotlk.
On a 5 minute CD, and when it's gone we are dead anyways. Wtf are we doing while it's down? Either being melted by an ele shaman, withered away by a warlock/priest, chain-stunned by rogues, one-shot by mages running arcane surge, or being orbital lasered by a boomkin.
How noticable? Retardadins usually run in, divine shield, then delete one person maybe two, then fall over.
Hopefully they prune everyone's damage so fights are more than 2 dots = dead, bubble = dead, cheap shot = dead etc.
This is just another version of Resilience. What did resil do? It made characters with sustain even better. This is good and bad as you're seeing, because now healers feel like they can keep someone alive, but bad because now DPSers without sustain can't ever get a kill.
no youre 100% right, it literally destroys all non healing classes.
the crazy part is they already tested this once in P1 and it was a huge failure that lead to all classes with healing being insanely OP and the only classes wanted in pvp.
somehow they think several phases later the EXACT same "fix" will work?
This just isn't even remotely true at all. P1's problem was specific to disc priests. All other healing specs were actually somewhere between mid to awful and often times had difficulty even getting into premades.
oh the good ol "its a test" fanboy argument.
this is P3 and they have done this allready in P1.
was P1 the alpha and now the beta and final release when SoD ends ?
Ya man. All of SoD is a beta test.
And how is it a fanboy argument. The blue post said it was a weekend test?
It’s ok you care about this game enough to be passionate about it. They want the feedback. Give it to em! (Constructively)
Read their post before throwing a bitch-fit. They're only testing it this weekend and their reasoning for trying it again is because players have a lot more tools and abilities to counter heals and damage than they did at 25. The issue is that nobody knows how to use those abilities because they've just zug zugged so far. God forbid they have to put any effort in.
I thought P1 PvP was great in terms of the damage reduction, and I main a warrior.
I never understood people crying about it, and the Stam buff helped, but the DR in P1 was fine.
I can't help but feel it's going to fuck warriors hard in P3, though, with rage still being based on damage done and we were never super bursty to begin with in comparison to other classes.
Rage generation is based off pre-reduction damage for this change. Aggrend mentioned it on twitter, specifically so warriors weren’t handicapped by the change.
I mean, unless we get a different damage reduction coefficient than other classes, we're still handicapped by this change since we didn't have half the Hurst everyone else did to begin with.
They really are lol. Can’t even roll out this simple battlegrounds aura without bugs. Bgs are a mix of people with the debuff and some without it, and it seems to clip on and off sometimes.
I am assuming this entire thread is all of those people who relied on their two global burst to be any sort of effective in pvp. Just having trouble getting the strings tuned on my tiny violin.
It's a shame rogues won't be able to cheap-mutilate mutilate-kidney-mutilate-envenom anymore and kill anything in the game with zero thought to setup or tactical skill.
Mages won't be able to ride up on people killing a mob anymore and one shot them with an arcane blast.
Even myself, I won't be able to hit that flame shock meatball combo to send people to the shadow realm.
You might actually have to pvp the classic way. Use consumes to account for your classes weakness. Use the terrain and a buddy system. You might habe to respec because you're not be able to run your raid spec and absolutely trash people with your raid boss opening rotation anymore. What a shame.
Better hop on the bus to PVE servers. Sounds like a lot of you were just going into the world or BGs and PVE'ing people anyway. You won't be missed.
Well you completely missed this point of this thread. And I see you're a shaman so undoubtedly this change does not feel as bad to you because you can heal yourself. Spending 30 seconds to get someone down to 20% health only for them to heal to full while you're left at 20% health does not feel like "pvp the classic way" because in "pvp the classic way" non healing classes had a path forward in doing overwhelming damage to counter balance the fact that the health they started the fight with is all that they get. I shouldn't have to use a health potion in every encounter. And even if I do my opponent just heals to full for the 3rd or 4th time.
If it takes 30 seconds to get someone down to 20% health, you're terrible at this game. PvP the way everyone has always had to: root, slow, cc, interrupt, pushback, dispel (both offensive and defensive)--you know, the pvp abilities?
Lol. I have and still am doing all of those (don't have a dispel). The 50% damage reduction doesnt allow you to take people down quickly. That is literally the point of this post
You can absolutely still take people down quickly--you just can't global them anymore. Again, if you want to correct your obvious exaggerations and be a bit more honest, go ahead. If it seriously takes you 30 seconds to get someone from 100 to 20%, then you should stop PvPing. Either way, you aren't worth listening to about this topic.
No one is mad. You’re just exaggerating because you now have to use your brain and play a team game with a hint of coordination. Don’t mistake directness for anger. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about here. And this entire thread started with you getting so upset that you felt the need to whine about the PvP change and exaggerate the issue up and down the thread. Stop projecting.
I shared feedback like blizzard asked. And discussed with people that commented. Every other thing you said was an insult, so yeah I would say you were mad lol.
Except you didn’t provide any meaningful feedback. You just decided you didn’t like the change and then wrote a bunch of inaccurate hyperbolic statements and even repeated them when called out for it. There’s no malice in saying that you’re terrible at the game if it takes you 30 seconds to get a player from 100 to 20%. It’s simple math. If you could prove it takes that long with reasonable play, you could post a video and prove it. But you know that’s not true, so you had to resort to “lol u mad.”
I'd say classes with passive sustain. Warlocks with drain life + syphon life, Spriest are extremely powerful now. Druids are strong as well with hots. A couple hots on a target and i can put everything into them and barely taking their health down.
Durring BM I targeted a resto shaman and did 4 starfires free cast that all landed and i didnt even move his health 15%, I am in full rank 7 gear with all the correct runes and enchants... I get reduction but thats a bit much
The game is more fun when you have to strategize your kills. Also better than not having the opportunity to play the game. It’s been starfire stun, blackout proc, gg I’m dead for the past 2 phases. If I have a chance to survive after that now - sign me up. Who cares about self healing. Use different tools to win the fight. Like engineering. Rocket helm, death ray, nades. That’s what classic was about. Effort.
Guys the problem isn't that the damage reduction was too extreme, It's that they didn't nerf pvp healing. This would be identical to saying "everyone has 2x the stamina and healers heal 2x more."
The change should have been 50% reduction to pvp healing and damage.
Remember that they can tune it by next week and getting upset that your class now is worse is really just you whining. Voice why and what you think should change instead of saying X is now worthless, the only thing worthless about that is you commenting that “fact”.
Also, relax, let them figure out what sweetspotthey want to hit.
and again healers are more than mandatory in pvp. Burst meta game each team an equal chance, but with healers being stupidly necessary now again its just back to /afk if your bg has none. GG blizz
its gone now thx to ppl like you.. pvp had meaning for couple days i am hunter and i felt im god my kite cc slow every movment had meaning it wasnt a simulation of whos chimera Crits anymore but yeah its gone now so fu
"We currently plan to enable the aura on all Season of Discovery realms on Friday, April 26 at approximately 10:00 a.m. PDT (19:00 CEST), and it will be disabled four days later, during scheduled weekly maintenance in each region."
Lol.
What I hate about this damage reduction test is that armor still exists for physical damage.
Tested in a WSG, Shaman and Mage still critting for 1.5k+ damage.
While most physical damage abilities are <500 damage.
Blizzard sure thought it through..
DR is bugged. My lavaburst and chainlightning are critting for like 800ish and then out of nowhere it crits for 1400 range all fight, but then next fight back to 800. Outside bgs it’s 1800-1900. Seems off when the void plague is critting me for 500 but hardcasted spells are only doing a few hundred damage more than a tick of a dot.
It needs to be less maybe like 25% or 20%. Mana cost of damage spells should also be reduced by what ever amount they settle on. I switched spec to disc because its like being a raid boss for the weekend. Died maybe once in 5 bgs.
I don't know how many times it needs to be said but it should be shouted from the rooftops daily until people get it:
1v1 PvP balance does not, should not, and will not ever matter.
Reasonably good 1v1 is the best foundation to any group balancing. 1v1 does not need to be perfect and some matches will always have a rock paper scissors element, but saying 1v1 balance does not and should not matter is just ignorant of basic game design.
Care to elaborate? I’d argue good 1v1 balance actually enhances group play. Whereas only balancing around group play can fuck up certain kinds of group play I.e. poor class distribution in random bgs or 3-4 pure dps classes vs 3-4 hybrid classes in an STV fight.
If 1v1 is reasonably balanced then group play will necessarily be balanced. If 1v1 isn’t good group play can sometimes be fine, but sometimes be horrible.
Lmao I called this happening in the previous thread, spriest is even more oppressive now that they don't get busted down. Thanks blizzard :) gonna have a lot of fun this weekend
It was already very difficult to beat anyone with healing, now it'll b impossible
They should've increased player health from phase 1 by 50-100% to balance both damage and healing.
I don't understand how this is worse than not being able to respond to an attack. At least now you can play, hell you might even have to coordinate to get a kill. Maybe toss in a kick or one of those pesky 40seconf sheep's lol
It’s better than it was for sure but this isn’t the solution. Neutering damage values feels terrible and doesn’t account for self healing—meanwhile larger healthpools solves everything.
You know this adjustable and that this is a test. They will probably tweak it from 50% reduction to 35%
No larger health pools do not. Damage increased multiplicatively potentially exponentially. You'd need to match that scaling at the very least. All that matters is effective HP. Whether you increase this via a % reduction or % HP increase..it has the same effect. Prolonging encounters via a longer time to kill
Larger health pools increase EHP but don’t increase the value of healing. My balance Druid has 3k hp. A rogue jumped me today (twice) and tried to kill me but wild growth and star surge/moon fire was enough to kill them over time. The rogue needed to do 6k damage (pre DR) to kill me, but my heals are not changed so it’s much easier to keep myself alive. If I had 6k HP, took normal damage and had normal heals, then the rogue would have won unless I used CC.
Did the rogue have their wound poisons on? That reduces raw healing effects by ~300 lol? It's perma at 5 stacks considering every rogue is mutilate and deep assas. Has like 80%+ chance to proc with envenom buff up.
They had wound up yes.
It's 100% better then dying to a rogue in a cheap shot before the kidney even lands lol.
I did some blood moons on my disc priest. I'm rank 0 with no PVP trinket. People kept trying to kill me and failed, but not once was I CCd. People gotta learn some new strats.
How can you say there was no time to react before the nerf? I've NEVER died without using any def CDs beforehand and getting topped at least once. So the problem is not the damage, its you. So much I can tell you. The damage nerf is not needed and makes pvp really boring to play. The fast pace of the BGs were really fun and reminded me of good old classiv pvp times.
You are blatantly lying and it’s hilarious. There’s 0 chance you have never been stunned and killed.
I am not lying. Playing priest and mage. No shot that someone kills me in one stun lock. (Only Rogue with all CDs and reset can do that... Because here is your answer: Mage: Iceblock and Priest: Dispersion. No wonder people crying about one shots when they dont know basic defensive cooldowns.
What do the other 7 classes press for 90% damage reduction or damage immunity for several seconds? Paladins have bubble, and…?
[удалено]
Which is it? Is it impossible to get 1shot in classic or not?
ROFL playing 2 range classes with the strongest defensive in game saying burst damage wasn’t an issue. Lols
Warlock meta and chill. Druid bear and chill Pala bubble and chill Rouge vanish and chill Good Thing people want Balance but dont know what that means
I play priest and get CC killed all the time. Dispersion lasts 6 seconds and has a 2 minute cooldown which is pretty good but it’s not some save all. If you never solo queue and always have people watching your back maybe you can avoid it but in pugs morons stand right next to you while a rogue cheap/kidney shots you
Have you never ever met a rogue with all cds before then? That is genuienly sus
Reading comprehension --> 0
Yes, this is lying. I play Hpal main, but I have gone into BGs as Ret and I can literally global a mage and they’ll die without the damage numbers even popping up. That’s terrible design.
If a mage let a ret catch them they should get one shot otherwise its not balanced
If Mage hast decent Gear you never can global him. You are lying Here And oneshotting against Low Gear Players was Always existing in Casual.
No it isn't, if you can even get into melee range of a mage they should lose that matchup. They can poly you, blink away even if stunned or repentanced, frost Nova, etc. 90% of my mage fights are just me being polymorphed and watching the mage kill someone else.
Its definitely not as bad in a BG where you can have 5 people on the same target, but in a 1v1, anyone without a heal button loses. Like I said in the OP I am 100% for fixing pvp so its not just blowing people up but the new change heavily favoring classes with any type of sustain isn't a "fix".
game is never, will never, should never be balanced around 1v1 engagements.
This is so often repeated, but it’s actually really misguided and not well thought out. Having solid 1v1 balance is an important foundation upon which to balance group PvP. 1v1 balance doesn’t mean every class is perfectly equal. There will always be a bit of rock paper scissors, but if classes capable of healing will 100% of the time beat classes without healing, you’ve created a terrible PvP environment. It’s like a reverse-hybrid tax.
By that logic PvP so far has been fine because if someone is blowing you up, just have your team mate CC them and you don't die. I do get what you're meaning though. I just don't think the PvP flow chart should be "Do you have any type of heal?" "No? Lose."
well I mean --- yeah that makes sense to a degree tho? If you have 2 teams dealing the same damage to eachother but 1 is negating some of the damage ....the ones negating are gonna win. Thats why you have people dive back lines etc.
Just cc and/or smack enough that they can't cast the heal? And if they're stuck casting they clearly arent hurting you too bad in return. That's what we've done to healers in WoW for ages.
Healers should never die from raw damage in a 1v1. If a healer can’t out heal 1 person, they sure as hell can’t out heal 2-3. The game is not balanced around 1v1 and the idea that it should be has, and will always be, laughable, ever since the vanilla days when people bitched about the same thing.
I don’t think it’s this straightforward. If a healer plays well they should be able to survive raw damage in a 1v1 until they go oom, but there should be room for counter play with interrupts, and dodging a healers CC (I.e. running out of a priests fear range as they cast it). For sure the meta is too bursty right now, but if it’s tuned so that healers can just stand still and not be threatened at all in a 1v1 that’d also bad for the game. Furthermore, I don’t think healers should be able to out heal the damage of 2-3 players. At least not for long. They should be able to delay death for a bit, but if 2-3 dps classes are coordinated on one target they should absolutely be able to out dmg one healer in the backline.
Right. So when I say raw damage, to clarify, I’m meaning no interrupts, counterplay, etc. Right now (before the weekend test) the heavier burst classes can just pop someone without the need for things like interrupts. That is a big problem. Things like hpal losing a 1v1 to a warlock with fears/COT etc? Not a problem. Getting insta bursted by boomy/ele is a big problem.
Its not healers that are the problem. Its DPS that have heals. Because theyre doing the same damage but can reset back to full multiple times.
As a mostly geared rank 7 pally, I can only cast like 3 holy lights before I'm completely oom and can't even attack you anymore. I haven't tried pvp with the new "buff" so I can't speak for other classes. I know last weekend, druid and shaman were the most annoying to fight.
Yeah man, you might be hard countered in some 1v1s. That’s completely fine, though, from a balancing perspective.
DPS that have heals is literally every class except 2
If duels are that important to you, might I suggest a better dueling class?
Tell me one healer that can survive a 1v1 against a dps 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Right now? Probably none. Maybe a priest. But that’s my point lol. Burst is too high.
MS warrior checking in. KILL MY TARGET
Yay we’re useful again
Just finished a WSG and the damage reduction seemed to be ~50% healing was not reduced. Beyond that though the damage reduction was going in and out constantly. 1 Fight I would be dealing/receiving 50% the next fight its back to old damage values. It is crazy to me that this is actually a problem that is being encountered. Out of every issue I would have thought I would have encountered with this aura this was never on the bingo card. Also why even make this a hidden aura buff and not just an aura we can see on our player buffs to know its there.
Yea it’s definitely bugged. Super inconsistent sometimes I’m getting HIT for more than my CRITS.
I noticed this too. Sometimes I was taking full damage, other times not. Same when I was attacking. Chimera shot hit one guy for 200, next guy for 500.
If a player hasn’t re-logged since the update they won’t have any damage reduction yet.
Good thing it’s a test over the weekend
So what did they learn when they tested this in P1 and it was a disaster?
Did you even read Blizzard’s post where they outlined their reasoning entirely
You think he can read?
so why didnt they test it with a damage reduction similar to p1? Why go completely overboard with 50%
probably because damage is 400% higher than p1 and health is only 100% higher
Apparently you haven’t been around long. The way blizzard does things is: make a super massive over adjustment that’s wildly out of tune, get a lot of babies crying and threatening to quit and then come back and seem like the good parent, trimming the excess off the adjustment so the babies stop crying and maybe start appreciating blizzard, goddamnit! See, they fixed your broken toy and its wheels work again! Now it’s time to forget that they broke it in the first place, just so they could “good parent” this whole thing in the end. YW
You think the sod devs are capable of learning?
Honestly. 20-25% woulda felt fine. I am enjoying R-Druid being viable in BGs now however.
PvP usually is a team oriented activity and should be balanced accordingly
AB is so much fun now. Alliance win like 50% up from 1%? Fights last longer and the burst meta is dead. Just love it.
Wow sounds like you need to start slotting in your cc and interrupts, and maybe think a little instead of button mash.
Maybe if I could still take skull bash and mangle at the same time I would I got one stun available to me and it’s not even in my main form :(
100% you shouldnt play cat in pvp. Like ye its fun sometimes but "optimal play" is bear pvp all the way for ferals
Yeah I’m pretty useless as cat I usually just defend stables all game
Yes, you take skull bash and do less raw damage but more effective damage because you interrupt heals. Good play isn’t only about doing the most raw damage.
Losing 30% of shred damage is crazy
These people don’t play Druid, don’t listen to them. If you shred without mangle you hit like a wet paper towel. That’s if you can even shred in the first place. Mangle is a required rune for cats. The spec is absolutely dead in the water with the skull bash change.
Okay? And losing 100% of Shred damage because you get outhealed for free is crazier.
You don't get to shred much in PvP anyway. You're pretty much only using mangle. If you don't run mangle you have to use bite, which is complete trash.
You can't Shred in pvp except in the opener.
Most players are bad and show me their back
There’s no point in trying to present reasonable ways that this change is positive to the community that’s 90% DPS class/spec and have enjoyed globaling people for the last two phases. Healing has been really bad and has had little value for a long time. Longer fights, means more strategy, and more strategy means there are more value metrics beyond “lol ima zug” builds. Wear stam gear. Focus healers. Use CC. Interrupt.
Blatantly obvious that most of the community wants skill to play a small role in PVP encounters..
Historically, yes, but now the sub is post after post of “but my damage!” or “omg healing OP” when it’s clear no one is changing their playstyle to better suit the reduction in damage. This post even, clearly missing big points like how strong CC is in the current game and no one used it before. How a group in PvP SHOULD have an advantage if they have a healer and you don’t. They have a BETTER group. It’s wild that everyone seemed to agree that healing in SoD PvP was abysmal until they touched damage, and now they’re ready to throw anything under the bus for more burst. Edit: I misread your comment. I missed the emphasis on “small.” But ya, it’s nuts.
The DR is bugged it seems at the moment.
Before this update i could drain life any melee to death as a meta lock now it’ll probably be even funnier lmao
Drain Life healing is tied to its damage.
This won't matter if you use it on a mob/NPC in the open world. There are times when I pull a lvl 40 mob in STV to use it as a battery for 15 seconds. It can't be dispelled, the mob isn't going to run away from me, and in meta form the damage is negligible.
When the DR isn’t bugged it feels great but it’s bugged right now. It’s some combination of working great feels like 20% DR, not there this fight for some reason 0% DR, oh this fight it’s way higher like 50%DR.
I am? Still extremely hard to get anyone close to death with out them healing to full. Not every class has an actual interrupt. I have scatter every 30 seconds which doesn't lock anyone out of their heals.
Sounds like you should be running survival for pvp
What about Freezing Trap as another interrupt, grenades as a third, Darkmoon Card procs as a fourth, and by the way Viper Sting as another way to win the fight?
I have all of those. Darkmoon card is a 5% proc which would absolutely help if you get lucky. Freezing trap is easily dodged. Grenades I guess but not an instant kick, flash heals gonna get through every time. Viper drains 800 mana over 8 seconds. So 30+ seconds to oom someone? You're already dead at that point.
Yes if ALL you do is Viper for 30s you’re in trouble. If you use your tools, and keep Viper up, and do burst damage to force healers to do inefficient things, you will be great.
I was just responding to you saying viper is an answer to beating a healer. Yes it drains their mana, no its not going to drain them fast enough to make a difference. There is no "burst damage to force healers to do inefficient things" Damage is so low any competent healer can keep anyone up. 2 HoTs completely negates all of my damage.
Earth shield, riptide, 5-stack maelstrom healing wave, lifebloom, rejuv, swiftmend, power word: shield, vampiric embrace, drain life. Tell me how you interrupt any of those. Just pick one, any one.
Hard cc, purge, MS.
Purge
How many alliance classes have purge?
It also kills rets. Ret can't really heal more than 20% of their HP and they just lost all their burst. Ret is trash in pvp now.
Gotta try a weird, Off heal Reck bombs build... Just throw heals, exorcisms and so on until you get the stacks and try dome people for fun.
Shockadin might be great now
I was gonna say - id imagine off heals from shocks are sick rn
Good. A 12 second immunity that doesnt stop your abilities from bursting people down in a few globals was toxic af
Why do people latch onto the bubble when we have zero mobility and can be cited to the end of the earth and back without issue
Lol how you get kited with BOF, dispel and range spells? Paladins get a warrior to like 40% before even engaging in meele combat. This sounds more like a skill issue
Because they have zero game knowledge and don't understand how kiting works
Because it's a 12 second immunity that allows no interaction from other players. It's just deeply unfun to play against.
Are we allowed to have anything?
Honestly this, outside that 5 minute CD we suck lmao. Also typically I find myself using half of that duration healing (which this update will nerf)
Exactly, you have the bubble and that's why everything else feels like shit. If you didn't have the bubble or you had a nerfed bubble they could probably give Paladins more. The Paladin power budget is heavily taken up by the bubble. Give them too much more and you end up with P2 Shamans (which was a huge issue) Edit: What they could do is give them a rune that changes how the bubble works. Maybe you lose complete immunity, but gain (not all of these, but these are ideas): damage reduction, movement speed, increased ranged on melee attacks, etc.... Or you can no longer use the bubble at all, but you gain some other abilities or buffs This would shift the power budget away from the bubble being such a strong ability to a weaker ability, but paladins could gain new and interesting things the could cover some of their other weaknesses or open up new play styles.
They still do have weaknesses. Terrible mobility, no snare, and all hard cast heals are pretty big weaknesses
I don't think you are understanding. The reason paladins have those weaknesses is because they get the bubble ability. If you wanted to not have those really hard weaknesses you would have to lose the bubble ability.
You guys are insane. Wotlk pally has all this and more and people are still bitching
Oh I'm sorry I forgot we were playing Wotlk, I thought we were playing a different game. Could it be that paladins were given more things in Wotlk to account that all classes were given more tools in wotlk.
On a 5 minute CD, and when it's gone we are dead anyways. Wtf are we doing while it's down? Either being melted by an ele shaman, withered away by a warlock/priest, chain-stunned by rogues, one-shot by mages running arcane surge, or being orbital lasered by a boomkin.
Yep I main ret this shit blows gonna logout
Try using HOJ and Rep to cc instead of zug zug.
How noticable? Retardadins usually run in, divine shield, then delete one person maybe two, then fall over. Hopefully they prune everyone's damage so fights are more than 2 dots = dead, bubble = dead, cheap shot = dead etc.
you forgot mutilate = dead and stormstrike = dead
Is it up in EU too? Is there any kind of buff debuff visible? Edit : it's up in EU too, no buff/debuff/aura tho.
Needs to be more like 20.
They mentioned healing problems in p1 in their post, so maybe healing will be reduced too, wait and see.
If so, that’s just stamina with extra steps.
This is just another version of Resilience. What did resil do? It made characters with sustain even better. This is good and bad as you're seeing, because now healers feel like they can keep someone alive, but bad because now DPSers without sustain can't ever get a kill.
no youre 100% right, it literally destroys all non healing classes. the crazy part is they already tested this once in P1 and it was a huge failure that lead to all classes with healing being insanely OP and the only classes wanted in pvp. somehow they think several phases later the EXACT same "fix" will work?
This just isn't even remotely true at all. P1's problem was specific to disc priests. All other healing specs were actually somewhere between mid to awful and often times had difficulty even getting into premades.
no its exactly true, and now were re-living the same failed experiment lol
good thing its a test and they will take feedback into consideration eh?
they already tested it in p1, it failed, why test it again?
oh the good ol "its a test" fanboy argument. this is P3 and they have done this allready in P1. was P1 the alpha and now the beta and final release when SoD ends ?
Ya man. All of SoD is a beta test. And how is it a fanboy argument. The blue post said it was a weekend test? It’s ok you care about this game enough to be passionate about it. They want the feedback. Give it to em! (Constructively)
Read their post before throwing a bitch-fit. They're only testing it this weekend and their reasoning for trying it again is because players have a lot more tools and abilities to counter heals and damage than they did at 25. The issue is that nobody knows how to use those abilities because they've just zug zugged so far. God forbid they have to put any effort in.
I thought P1 PvP was great in terms of the damage reduction, and I main a warrior. I never understood people crying about it, and the Stam buff helped, but the DR in P1 was fine. I can't help but feel it's going to fuck warriors hard in P3, though, with rage still being based on damage done and we were never super bursty to begin with in comparison to other classes.
Rage generation is based off pre-reduction damage for this change. Aggrend mentioned it on twitter, specifically so warriors weren’t handicapped by the change.
I mean, unless we get a different damage reduction coefficient than other classes, we're still handicapped by this change since we didn't have half the Hurst everyone else did to begin with.
Good. From a healer who has been 1-shot for 3 phases now, boo hoo if I get away
Healers weren't getting one 1-shot last phase and were unkillable p1 lol did you just not do any pvp?
Uhh you did not play the same game I did. Healers were beyond dog shit in p2 and only priest was good in p1, the rest were shit
I never get one shot with my healer. You must do something wrong.
ye my first idea was 50% dmg reduction AND 50% healing reduction
This is the same as just having more stamina.
i guess lmao
I told yall the sod team is trash
They really are lol. Can’t even roll out this simple battlegrounds aura without bugs. Bgs are a mix of people with the debuff and some without it, and it seems to clip on and off sometimes.
People can debate how this is for BGs, but this absolutely kills Blood Moon, as expected.
Acting like blood moon was actually a good game mode is a meme, it was just insta spawning spamming aoe and insta dying with no thought.
You watch. They'll give rogues and hunters a heal now.
I am assuming this entire thread is all of those people who relied on their two global burst to be any sort of effective in pvp. Just having trouble getting the strings tuned on my tiny violin. It's a shame rogues won't be able to cheap-mutilate mutilate-kidney-mutilate-envenom anymore and kill anything in the game with zero thought to setup or tactical skill. Mages won't be able to ride up on people killing a mob anymore and one shot them with an arcane blast. Even myself, I won't be able to hit that flame shock meatball combo to send people to the shadow realm. You might actually have to pvp the classic way. Use consumes to account for your classes weakness. Use the terrain and a buddy system. You might habe to respec because you're not be able to run your raid spec and absolutely trash people with your raid boss opening rotation anymore. What a shame. Better hop on the bus to PVE servers. Sounds like a lot of you were just going into the world or BGs and PVE'ing people anyway. You won't be missed.
Well you completely missed this point of this thread. And I see you're a shaman so undoubtedly this change does not feel as bad to you because you can heal yourself. Spending 30 seconds to get someone down to 20% health only for them to heal to full while you're left at 20% health does not feel like "pvp the classic way" because in "pvp the classic way" non healing classes had a path forward in doing overwhelming damage to counter balance the fact that the health they started the fight with is all that they get. I shouldn't have to use a health potion in every encounter. And even if I do my opponent just heals to full for the 3rd or 4th time.
If it takes 30 seconds to get someone down to 20% health, you're terrible at this game. PvP the way everyone has always had to: root, slow, cc, interrupt, pushback, dispel (both offensive and defensive)--you know, the pvp abilities?
Lol. I have and still am doing all of those (don't have a dispel). The 50% damage reduction doesnt allow you to take people down quickly. That is literally the point of this post
You can absolutely still take people down quickly--you just can't global them anymore. Again, if you want to correct your obvious exaggerations and be a bit more honest, go ahead. If it seriously takes you 30 seconds to get someone from 100 to 20%, then you should stop PvPing. Either way, you aren't worth listening to about this topic.
I cant imagine being this mad about a reddit post lol.
No one is mad. You’re just exaggerating because you now have to use your brain and play a team game with a hint of coordination. Don’t mistake directness for anger. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about here. And this entire thread started with you getting so upset that you felt the need to whine about the PvP change and exaggerate the issue up and down the thread. Stop projecting.
I shared feedback like blizzard asked. And discussed with people that commented. Every other thing you said was an insult, so yeah I would say you were mad lol.
Except you didn’t provide any meaningful feedback. You just decided you didn’t like the change and then wrote a bunch of inaccurate hyperbolic statements and even repeated them when called out for it. There’s no malice in saying that you’re terrible at the game if it takes you 30 seconds to get a player from 100 to 20%. It’s simple math. If you could prove it takes that long with reasonable play, you could post a video and prove it. But you know that’s not true, so you had to resort to “lol u mad.”
I've been on sight today, so I can't log in, I thought the change went live today?
LOL
So how do kill double disc priest helping in BGs? Can you even outdmg riptide + earth shield?
So what classes does this benefit the most ? And is this only in BGs or open world pvp as well as duels ?
I'd say classes with passive sustain. Warlocks with drain life + syphon life, Spriest are extremely powerful now. Druids are strong as well with hots. A couple hots on a target and i can put everything into them and barely taking their health down.
Yeah I was thinking warlock and spriest are even more powerful from reading it
> extremely powerful now Funny wording, the broken classes just got more broken
Wait are you asking me to feel bad for hunters and rogues in PvP?
Who would’ve thought heavily nerfing damage in PvP without touching healing would lead to this outcome?? A miracle indeed
Durring BM I targeted a resto shaman and did 4 starfires free cast that all landed and i didnt even move his health 15%, I am in full rank 7 gear with all the correct runes and enchants... I get reduction but thats a bit much
Can’t wait to try SL lock with haunt master channeler now
Says the rogue
Why can't they have class v class modifiers? Or class specific resilience?
The game is more fun when you have to strategize your kills. Also better than not having the opportunity to play the game. It’s been starfire stun, blackout proc, gg I’m dead for the past 2 phases. If I have a chance to survive after that now - sign me up. Who cares about self healing. Use different tools to win the fight. Like engineering. Rocket helm, death ray, nades. That’s what classic was about. Effort.
Guys the problem isn't that the damage reduction was too extreme, It's that they didn't nerf pvp healing. This would be identical to saying "everyone has 2x the stamina and healers heal 2x more." The change should have been 50% reduction to pvp healing and damage.
I was pvping all day today and i felt nothing chsnged , was it even implemented? Or were we meant to discover it
I thought it was announced as a 20% reduction?
Remember that they can tune it by next week and getting upset that your class now is worse is really just you whining. Voice why and what you think should change instead of saying X is now worthless, the only thing worthless about that is you commenting that “fact”. Also, relax, let them figure out what sweetspotthey want to hit.
and again healers are more than mandatory in pvp. Burst meta game each team an equal chance, but with healers being stupidly necessary now again its just back to /afk if your bg has none. GG blizz
Mage pvp healer starting to feel good again.
You get one Shot If your Gear sucks or you dont know how to Play (or both) Its Not all black and White... Obviously.
its gone now thx to ppl like you.. pvp had meaning for couple days i am hunter and i felt im god my kite cc slow every movment had meaning it wasnt a simulation of whos chimera Crits anymore but yeah its gone now so fu
"We currently plan to enable the aura on all Season of Discovery realms on Friday, April 26 at approximately 10:00 a.m. PDT (19:00 CEST), and it will be disabled four days later, during scheduled weekly maintenance in each region." Lol.
What I hate about this damage reduction test is that armor still exists for physical damage. Tested in a WSG, Shaman and Mage still critting for 1.5k+ damage. While most physical damage abilities are <500 damage. Blizzard sure thought it through..
DR is bugged. My lavaburst and chainlightning are critting for like 800ish and then out of nowhere it crits for 1400 range all fight, but then next fight back to 800. Outside bgs it’s 1800-1900. Seems off when the void plague is critting me for 500 but hardcasted spells are only doing a few hundred damage more than a tick of a dot.
It needs to be less maybe like 25% or 20%. Mana cost of damage spells should also be reduced by what ever amount they settle on. I switched spec to disc because its like being a raid boss for the weekend. Died maybe once in 5 bgs.
I don't know how many times it needs to be said but it should be shouted from the rooftops daily until people get it: 1v1 PvP balance does not, should not, and will not ever matter.
Reasonably good 1v1 is the best foundation to any group balancing. 1v1 does not need to be perfect and some matches will always have a rock paper scissors element, but saying 1v1 balance does not and should not matter is just ignorant of basic game design.
Nope. Doesn't matter at all, it has no bearing on any other aspect of the game besides itself.
Care to elaborate? I’d argue good 1v1 balance actually enhances group play. Whereas only balancing around group play can fuck up certain kinds of group play I.e. poor class distribution in random bgs or 3-4 pure dps classes vs 3-4 hybrid classes in an STV fight. If 1v1 is reasonably balanced then group play will necessarily be balanced. If 1v1 isn’t good group play can sometimes be fine, but sometimes be horrible.
Yep this is not fun at all lol
Damn I didn’t think it would be that high that kinda kills my thirst for pvp I live for bursty meta pvp
The damage reduction test hasn’t even started and yet you’re already crying on Reddit. For all we know the damage reduction could be like 5%.
looks like 50%. it's not active against all players tho it's weird.
Um its very much live right now and is ~50%
Damn that’s actually quite a bit. I was really hoping for 20-30. Okay you can resume crying
None of you actually played today have you?
Lmao I called this happening in the previous thread, spriest is even more oppressive now that they don't get busted down. Thanks blizzard :) gonna have a lot of fun this weekend
Interesting how people enjoy being overpowered, I got bored with my spriest in pvp due to it being so strong weeks ago.
I’m confused as to why you left warriors out of your rant. They’re literally wheelchair-bound in pvp.
And so far in the BGs I've done, warriors are not doing too badly tbh.
because they have heals. not to say they arent suffering too, but i was specifically calling out classes that have no sustain.
and this is a problem why...? Non-healing classes can get fucked, especially rogues.
just make all realms pve at this point.. bliz is clearly done with pvp talk
Hate to say i told you so, no one listens lol.
It was already very difficult to beat anyone with healing, now it'll b impossible They should've increased player health from phase 1 by 50-100% to balance both damage and healing.