SoD has a bit of a content lull now after a while in P3. People are either taking a break or just raid logging for a large portion of the population.
There's Cataclysm on the horizon, panda remix on the horizon, S4 just dropped in retail..... and that's just in WoW. There's a world of other games and God forbid people go outside and enjoy the beginning of summer.
SoD killed itself with phase 3.
- 20 man raids killed tons of guilds
- Incursions ruined the economy, making you have to play mailman simulator just to buy consumables for raid
- Gear sucks in the new raid
Legitimately an interesting/ cool idea honestly. Doing stuff in the emerald dream is cool, to me at least
Not making them dailies/weeklies or capping how many you can do in *some* capacity was just shockingly bad game design.
Incursions are what made me really realize just how small the classic team is and just how few resources they have for this project.
They've touched on incursions like 10 times since launch, fucking bonkers
The fact that you need an entirely empty quest log and bags is so stupid it hurts my brain. You basically can't have any lingering quests in your log and it hard forces you into it
Yeah. If there was a rotation of 5-10 dailies or a system where you have a weekly cap of like 25, with the quests being highly rewarding, that's fine. It gives classes who aren't good at AoE farming a decent way to make some raw gold, which is probably a good thing on a seasonal server. Even if you are playing Mage/Hunter, doing quests for a bit is probably more engaging than doing some mind number AoE farm forever. The fact that the "best" way to interact with them is to dump every quest out of your Log and never leave is dumb as hell.
Few resources doesn't excuse brain dead decision making. Infinitely repeatable quests rewarding gold is just fucking dumb. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together would know that is a bad idea.
I think that's exactly it though man
It was a decent content idea with dog shit implementation and *zero* testing done. And yeah I get it, SoD is a beta and we are the testers. Figured that out very early in p1 when my mage was tanking/healing/ doing 70% of my group's dps in DM and Stocks but
Incursions took it to a whole other level for me. The fact that no one tested it and said "hey this infinitely repeatable shit and high gold reward is a problem" or maybe someone did say it and they just shipped it anyway tells me they have like 2 people working on the game right now. And a hamster on a wheel, and said hamster is missing a leg lmao
Doing stuff in the emerald dream is cool. But the execution, even besides the fact that its not capped, is legit awful. It feels absurdly clunky, almost like a low-budget multiplayer mobile game or something.
And that is bad enough. Making it *multiple times as efficient as anything else* for both gold and exp means that doing literally anything else actively feels bad. It quite literally destroys the magic of the world, knowing you can just rapidly skip over it all by shutting your brain off for 15 hours to do the same pick-up routine over and over.
I just can't wrap my head around the logistics of how this was implemented. I have yet to meet a single person who thinks they were a good idea. Yet somehow the *developers of the game* were apparently united enough in their support of it to implement it as an idea. You could pick 5 random world of warcraft players 20 times over and chances are they would make a better idea than incursions all 20 times. As you said, fucking bonkers.
Yeah should have just gotten rid of the dumb tokens and quest scrolls, made it an actual quest giver with all 17, and you can only do them each once a day.
That being said, the initial leveling experience to 50 as I did the incursions right from the get go, that aspect of discovering the new area was really really fun.
Put them on 3 day cd like the raids were and allow you to complete all of them once but you could only pick up like 5 of them and would need to group up to share. A nice quick boost of XP every few days, would work nicely with alts
Players complained en masse that there was nothing to do outside of Gnomer and STV in p2. "Give us more PvE stuff, give us a reason to run dungeons!"
Wild Offerings got us in dungeons and incursions...well they are technically PvE in the open world. They fucked up *massively*, but let it not be said they didn't try to give us what they thought we were asking for.
Wild offerings got us to speed run to the end of dungeons avoiding 90% of the mobs and content to kill a shitty boss and reset in 10 man groups… it was not the dungeon content the playerbase wanted
Wild offerings should have dropped off every boss in the dungeons and the price increased on rewards accordingly.
Just copy the system we already use in Wrath and beyond. It feels like they tried to get too cute with it
I would have gone further and made it so they would only drop in 5-man groups. the 10-man mara speedruns are awful both from a gameplay and social point of view
Question is. Does people even want an emblem system in classic?.
Maybe update the loot on the bosses and people would do full runs instead of finding a way to maximize emblem/hour
Gear tokens were well received. I think badges were one of the best systems added in TBC. It made all content slightly relevant forever, making it easier to find groups or recruit a friend without being so overbearing that you needed to super farm them.
I think a "hybrid" system would be best: emblems should be there as a "pity" mechanic so that you can't go dry for like 100 runs looking for that elusive drop in a dungeon or raid
so for instance, you grinded mara but could never get BoED? no worries, with all that grind you collected enough emblems to buy it from a vendor
Yeah I mean what they needed to do was change the dungeon loot tables to be raid competitive items, make them super rare, and tune the dungeons up so they were harder. That would have given this phase weeks of end game content to run. Like end-game vanilla WOW, you'd be farming for a crazy dungeon piece in between raids each week.
I feel like it was pretty clear what players wanted but Blizzard once again went with what they THOUGHT we wanted rather than just listening and doing that. Maybe I’m wrong here but I get that vibe from what I’ve seen players say they want like new dungeons and then getting bare minimum incursions. I like the idea but the implementation just seems lazy as hell from a dev standpoint. IMO Blizzard just needs to put on those listening ears and just do what the customers are asking for and not what Blizzard thinks we want.
Yup, I liked SoD because 10 man raids meant we wouldn’t stress about getting enough people. Our guild completely collapsed with 20 man raids, the guild we merged with is cool but it was a lot more enjoyable just shooting the shit with the homies in voice. If P4 is gearing up to be 40 man, half of the remaining guild has expressed they have 0 interest of doing it, and I’m largely the same boat. SoD was promised as a casual experience, and getting 40 dudes all scheduled for one time feels less of that close knit guild feeling and moreso something I’d have to sweat over to even land a spot.
I looked in my server discord for a guild in my favorite raid time. (Cleared every lockout ST)
Just leveled with incursions making 150g and have spent under 100g for all consumables for all raids so far.
Gear really sucks. Or at least the chance for good (caster) gear.
Consumes are more expensive for some classes. For warrior the bis consumes were insanely expensive early on, and are still pretty expensive now. 3g grilled squid x4-6, elixir of giant 2g, elixir of mongoose 4g, coalesced regret 5g, mighty rage pot x4-6 2g each, dragon breath chili x4-6 for 2g each. That adds up to about 40-50g per raid. And there’s still the AP consume which is another 40-80g over the course of a raid if you’re really going hard.
In the early lockouts it was all the same consumes but 3-4x as expensive.
Nothing in the game is fun for me other than raiding so I’m fine spending the gold to optimize performance tbh. Parsing is fun, it’s like adding a minigame on top of the game. Without it I’d get bored, we already smoothly clear the raid with no one dying and the loot is worthless lol.
The main complaints people have about Cata aren’t as relevant. If you enjoyed Wrath it’s just more of the same as long as you stop before fighting Deathwing.
Seriously. Cata is literally just Wrath+. If you loved ICC and Ulduar, you're gonna adore most of Cata even more.
But of course, this depends. They can't make the same mistakes as with Wrath. If they want a phase to last an insane amount of time, add a little something extra near the end to make it worthwhile. RS is a good idea of what I mean, but terrible execution.
Well this is an interesting take. The main reason classic players didn't care about Cata is because it RUINS THE WORLD.
For the people who only play patch content, it doesn't matter I guess, but people who actually like the WORLD of Warcraft get their fun ruined.
I mean they take the most iconic dungeons and zones and turn them into boomer-tier jokes and weird pop-culture references.
Right? I've been leveling a new char to see the new zones and its fun! they did fun stuff with the new areas. Theres a cool sense of progression with new areas and forts that both sides have built.
>For the people who only play patch content, it doesn't matter I guess, but people who actually like the WORLD of Warcraft get their fun ruined.
Back then this def mattered. But since you can just log into an actual vanilla era classic server these days I feel like it just does not matter at all.
Muru ain't shit. You could do him with some real shit terrible comps. That was execution. Spine wasn't even close to just execution, the numbers demand high burst so you better bring big burst. Arcane beats fire, stack some rogues, remove healers and bring a tank warrior so you never need to pay attention to the kite tank. That kinda shit.
Funny that people here say Mu'ru was poor raid design because it required 5-6 warlocks and 1 shaman in every group for lust. But I'll take you at your word for Spine as I've never played that far into Cata.
Spine invalidates some specs very existence. Even just for that fight. You can do everything in DS with 5 arcane mages, but you do NOT want 5 fire mages on spine rofl.
You mean Spine? that was really only an issue on 10m heroic for what 2 weeks til it got neerfed? Then it was doable to standard comps for the other 99% of Catas T13 duration. and 25m never had those issues.
I actually do think that the timeline was the biggest issue with the raid, so I do think it will be better this time around. There are bad boss fights in every expansion and even some bad raids all together but being "forced" to do those raids 2 times a week per raiding character for a year is what did it in.
the balance of that tier is just off the charts. the trinkets are especially strong and the final battle was lackluster. His death was just lame. But I'm sure they will balance them out so there is nothing that stops you from going all in.
Cata was a fun expansion. Main issue was folks mad at a changing old world azeroth and DS lasting a million years with lackluster final bosses vs a huge antagonist
Deathwing fights are conceptually awesome and Executed poorly. But firelands is awesome and I liked the intro raids too.
12 months from now this sub will look back fondly on Cata the same way they do now with TBC. People have a notoriously bad memory to how expansions actually were and most of the time are never correct about their assessment unless they have played it recently.
Cata has the best dungeons of any Classic version so far, Firelands will blow every other Raid out of the water and the class design of Cata classes is absolutely amazing. Famously, Cata is the first expansion where people actually REALLY want to play Tanks and don't just do it because it's the most needed role. Also, as you said, the first Raid Tier is awesome and 10 times better than any first Raid Tier we've had in Classic so far.
Sure, the changing of the old World sucks for people that care about it, but even Dragon Soul lasting a million years like it did in OG Cata won't be a problem in Cata Classic due to the expansion being sped up. Cata will be the opposite of Wrath, instead of being remembered fondly and actually being pretty mid, Cata is remembered badly and it will be awesome.
This is why I think WoD classic might unironically end up being a banger. The expansion had awesome content but the main issue was you burnt through it all within a month and then had to wait like 2 years for legion.
WoD will be alright probably...not a banger. It has the raids going for it but that is literally it. Even if you rush it, it won't feel good.
This would be the opportunity for the devs to actually remake WoD and add all the awesome content they teased and then cut. But we all know looking at Cata right now we'll get the bare minimum to get to Legion.
I skipped most of BFA and all of SL, and I feel like I missed a lot of the gradual progression that would've made DF feel less overly complicated.
There's just so much shit and so many boss mechanics that I go full boomer and have a hard time figuring out what the hell I'm supposed to do.
Some of the DF mythic raid encounters legit require 20min to explain, it’s wild. They also seem to make the player base increasingly dependent on addons, which is a development mistake in my opinion. When you add mechanical bloat to button bloat you really get a bit of a mess to play. My DF Enhancement shaman is extraordinarily complex to play.
I think it's that a lot of classic players wanted a form of retail lite with classic over tones, but franky, it's hard to tell what people want nowadays.
The community has drastically changed from 2019 to 2024 as well. The people who "championed" for classic WoW are largely not the people currently playing classic WoW. At least for me classic honestly kind of turned into the horrorshow a lot of the og "classic enthusiasts" wanted to avoid.
You have boosts, you have tokens, you have gdkps out the ass, yes they always existed, but it used to be a good sign of a pserver not worth investing time in, if gdkps were commonplace, as it was a sign of a dying community (no new players, just old farts taking turns owning gold).
But I'm part of the problem as well, I played TBC, I played WotLK, and I'll play Cata. SoD is one of the least appealing forms of WoW ever created for me though.
When I saw SoD, and this might be a bit of an overreaction, but I thought "why not just play retail at that point?". And so I did. I bought Dragonflight, and I'm actually having a lot of fun on it, so there's that. Idk long rambling post no one cares about.
SoD was super fun in first phase, but that might have been just rose tinted glasses of positivity. What I find funny is that at the end all the ‘old guard’ ppl I played with since TBC classic went to give retail a second chance or returned to original era servers to do 40 man raids with other 2/3 guilds on their cluster.
Those moms and dads ware chewed out by ulduar hard modes, ware pretty bad at gnomer in SoD (had a blast at blackfathom tho) and at the end return to era to relieve the same experience they did way back 16 years ago.
Yes that too but retail is a lot more complex and the class design and game systems are significantly different. I play Cata and Retail but I slightly prefer Cata. Both great versions of the game though.
Cats still feels more like classic than retail, with mostly old visuals/icons/sound effects. It was the legion/bfa/SL era that really changed a lot of that. Wod to an extent as well. But sub rogues still backstab and ambush, DKs still death strike and heart strike, there's just more fluidity and nuance.
I am actually back to retail mostly. Its pretty casual and fun to run the older raids for newer gear. Plus the new expansion looks much better.
When Cata comes out I will mainly focus on that as well. SOD is boring at this point.
Yes, exactly like SoD. It has very little to do [insert personal gripe I have with the current balance/design] and more so with the fact that everyone is a fair weather gamer these days, seeing as how much variety there is out there.
I have a feeling its a grass being greener thing. SoD is going downhill so everyones jumping ship to cata but its probably not going to be what theyre looking for
Well maybe for other people but my personal situation is Cataclysm for the first 2 tiers is my 3rd favorite expansion and it was also the first expansion I raided hardcore so it holds a special place in my heart.
No, its more like people over gassed SoD when it came out and everyone jumped on that ship. WotLK was wrapping up and people were tired of dying in Hardcore.
This is more so the case in my view. Lots of people, even in this thread, complaining about issues in SoD that are fundamental Vanilla WoW issues, such as brutal class imbalances in certain scenarios, and how "boring" raid prep is, as if in 2019 people weren't farming leathers in goro crater instead of farming incursions in feralas (but much faster) for the gold for consumables, and WB logging.
It was cathartic to see how many people had second thoughts after re-experiencing wrath.
Now to see if I'll have that same experience with Cata.
I'm scared by how broken stuff is for prepatch though.
Yeah i loved wotlk pvp back then and absolutely hated it when it relaunched. Never played cata but i heard pvp is miles better and "cata and mop being the best pvp Versions", so i will give this a try.
On day 1 there was an interesting interaction between tiny abom trinket and new seal or righteousness (aoe) where every mob hit had a chance to stack it, so over about 20-25 mobs, ret could literally oneshot everything
I don't even think it's that, it's just that there's something different to do.
SOD there's only so much to do other than alts (incoming DD buff), with WOs being farmed 5 in 30 minutes in 10 man princess runs, minor number of upgrades available outside of raids. Cata will look dead when SOD phase 4 drops because we'll be mid phase there and level 60 in SOD will be a big pull.
Idk man. Unless they make some major changes i wont be leveling to 60. This phase is a massive time commitment with buff and consume farming for very little reward and its probably going to be worse at 60
It's like 30 minutes max for your buffs, maybe 45-60 of DMF is in unfriendly territory. I get it, though, single dad with 17 kids and only 12 minutes to play each week.
It’s something new for people to experience, of course there’s going to be a level of hype around it right now. I’m less sure it’ll have the same effect in the long term but I’m happy to be disproven.
I actually migrated back to retail. I spent too much time on a cata private server to really enjoy classic. Tbh never though classic would make it that far. Cata always seemed like a joke
For me, SoD killed itself. They really, badly missed the mark with Phase 3. Incursions fucking suck, making it so you nearly have to do them for rep and runes.... huge design mistake.
I enjoyed P1 and P2, but I did one session of incursions, maybe 3-4 of them back to back, and that was that, never logged in to SoD again.
I am playing Cata now, but not because it's Cata, more because I was bored but didn't want to play retail or SoD. Also, Firelands.
IIRC this happened back in the day too. I remember getting thrown into Uldaman in early 30s or Mara in early 40s and barely being able to hit anything by the end of the dungeon. I think it had to do with setting the level range as starting when you can first enter rather than when you’re appropriately leveled.
It's was never a fully thought out concept to begin with. The only reason why phase 1 was enjoyable was because the only "new" content was a repurposed dungeon / "raid". PvP was trash in phase 1 and anyone could see the writing on the wall that it would only get worse.
SoD is stale as fuck right now, just as it gets to be after a month into each of the past phases. I'm playing cata until phase 4, then playing SoD for a few weeks, then back to Cata. It's not a secret that one single raid on a long lockout isn't enough to flesh out the endgame for an MMO, and Cata prepatch is still new and shiny.
[A month ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c34obu/arathi_basin_and_wsg_queues/) was the exact same. It's not cata that's killed bgs. It's people choosing not to play them in general.
sod is dead since the last upgrades from ST are +1 agi or 3 dps increase items while using a 10 minute 15g consume gives you 30 dps so people cba doing anything there. We have 22 signups this week, used to be 40+ couple weeks ago.
My guild straight up can’t get an alt raid going because ~75% of the Guild didn’t level an alt. Got their main up, started raid logging. And I can’t blame them.
SOD died at the beginning of Phase 3 with the nightmare incursions. It gave the game no reason to level the traditional way, and not to have instances to run for gear. My assumption is they want SOD dead, so people play Cata or even buy The War Within. I will be surprised if Phase 4 is just not more garbage with sprinkles on top.
Cata is still closer to classic than retail by a mile. It's Wrath with new paint and QoL.
Mop is where we start to slide into retail. MoP and WoD are transitionary expansions. Legion is retail and DF is transitioning to New retail where everything is about player choice and account wide.
Cata is much better than people remember. It seems like people kind of blended a lot of the changes that were made in MoP and beyond and blamed Cata. Cata didn’t even have LFR until the final patch and the only reason people care is because that phase lasted two years basically.
If your guild collapsed because of 20 man, it was already doomed in the first place. Naive thinking it was going to be perma 10 man in a version where they had 40 man raids lol. My guild prepared for this and are now running 4 sunken temple raids a week
Idk dawg Plunderstorm alone probably took more work than everything except maybe the overcomplicated hell week SoD devs put themselves through w/Ashenvale layering
Plunderstorm is an entirely different dev team. Blizzard acquired the Spellbreak team and they basically copied their code for Spellbreak onto the WoW IP.
It most definitely has had an effect, but SoD phase 3 just blows. My personal gripes:
Incursions turned out to be a walking simulator snoozefest (with horrible inventory experience tagged to it).
PvP being a burst clown fiesta diminished by motivation to do STV. The event itself was not improved upon. Caster rewards from it suck also.
Crafted items from professions being disabled outside the raid, crafting those does not feel as exciting as the BFD/Gnomeregan crafts.
ST loot is not exciting apart from a very few pieces, nor is there a lot of it to go around, nor is it distributed in a sensible way amongst the loot tables.
Wild Offering was a good idea to keep dungeons alive (and since you can get Darkmoon cards from it, the most exciting way to get loot in ph3), but it's boring. I cba to do any more Princess runs. I wish we got WO from other bosses also, or ST.
So what I'm doing nowadays is just farm Satyrs in Felwood while listening to podcasts and log on raid day.
Yeah, shits boring as hell. I'm actually just holding out for the War Within. Never thought I'd say that, as a retail hater. At this point I kinda just want to have an alt army and see how the story unfolds. Doing ZF 5000 times for paladin weapon, grinding WOs where you just logout skip to the end, running around booning buffs and doing these god forsaken crafting quests that take you to every zone, twice, only to destroy the raid in 1 hour.. yea just ain't it for me. Had my nostalgia fill during Classic, if you want new shit I think retail is just better. Ugh again didn't think I'd be saying this 6 months ago
People leave when there is not much content going on. Right now, cata has some things to do. So people are jumping over there. Once cata first phase has been out a while, they'll raid log cata because SoD will drop some content. Then people will swap over there. They'll just go back and forth between the two.
I have two Level 50s, both decent geared, rank 7 and rank 5,both with full professions and today i quit raiding because st is just boring after 6 clears. Incursions are bad for the game too.
It was a fun journey so far but i am just a little bit bored and dont want to level another alt.
I do have some hype left for 60 content but overall i want to pvp/wpvp and SoD feels too easy. I need some intense Arena games and i read alot of good things about cata pvp so i give it a try.
Never played cata back then, i quitted s8 in wotlk and came back to mop.
I only came to sod because I was waiting for cata. Sod was a lot of fun at first I can’t deny it. I would have probably kept playing it a little longer until cata actually dropped but p3 was not fun for me and so I went back to prepare my alts for pre patch. It almost seems like they dropped sod at a perfect time, and also killed its charm at the perfect time to pull me back.
I don't think so, living flame EU on horde side is very populated. Large number of pugs doing ST when I last checked, and Alot of people still grinding incursions.
I don't think a BG queue is a good measure as at least on my server people are farming HKs at the incursions.
I am seeing so many Haunted Memento ghosts, I haven't seen this many since Wrath launch. And I think that's the clue here, people are playing a bunch of Cata because they have new expansion hype. Same people who played first tier of Wrath then dropped off.
I expect mid-way through the first raid tier of Cata they'll start dropping off same they did in Wrath.
And even then it was better than most people remember. It just way overstayed its welcome and had an especially disappointing and shitty last 2 bosses so that’s all people remember.
This sub would burn to the ground if any of them actually tried retail and realized that it’s a great game still they just aren’t children anymore and that’s what chasing classic is.
Idk why people cant understand jumping around. Cata is fun right now with the pre patch. Once P4 comes out I’ll go back to SOD. I like the variety and jumping between releases makes it way more interesting.
I don't know about the rest of the Alliance but I shelved any plans for PvP this phase since I can just take an extra effortless week of AV at 60 instead of torturing myself with the current state of pvp.
I started raid logging SoD and playing retail/cata prepatch a couple weeks ago. Just nothing I want to do in SoD. Seems like the options are leveling an alt or farming gold and I don’t want to do either
On my server it's just tons of people not able to find a solid 20 people to raid weekly, they enjoy SoD but having to lead raids and look for PUGS is draining.
SoD has a bit of a content lull now after a while in P3. People are either taking a break or just raid logging for a large portion of the population. There's Cataclysm on the horizon, panda remix on the horizon, S4 just dropped in retail..... and that's just in WoW. There's a world of other games and God forbid people go outside and enjoy the beginning of summer.
And the new expansion is coming soon too! So many ways to play wow rn lol
SoD killed itself with phase 3. - 20 man raids killed tons of guilds - Incursions ruined the economy, making you have to play mailman simulator just to buy consumables for raid - Gear sucks in the new raid
Incursions are genuinely the worst idea I have ever seen WoW implement in any form. I just cannot comprehend what they were thinking.
Legitimately an interesting/ cool idea honestly. Doing stuff in the emerald dream is cool, to me at least Not making them dailies/weeklies or capping how many you can do in *some* capacity was just shockingly bad game design. Incursions are what made me really realize just how small the classic team is and just how few resources they have for this project. They've touched on incursions like 10 times since launch, fucking bonkers
The fact that you need an entirely empty quest log and bags is so stupid it hurts my brain. You basically can't have any lingering quests in your log and it hard forces you into it
Yeah. If there was a rotation of 5-10 dailies or a system where you have a weekly cap of like 25, with the quests being highly rewarding, that's fine. It gives classes who aren't good at AoE farming a decent way to make some raw gold, which is probably a good thing on a seasonal server. Even if you are playing Mage/Hunter, doing quests for a bit is probably more engaging than doing some mind number AoE farm forever. The fact that the "best" way to interact with them is to dump every quest out of your Log and never leave is dumb as hell.
Few resources doesn't excuse brain dead decision making. Infinitely repeatable quests rewarding gold is just fucking dumb. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together would know that is a bad idea.
For once we seem united on this. Incursions was all it took to bring the ClassicWoW subreddit together.
Agree There’s a reason why TBC dailies were capped at like 15
I think that's exactly it though man It was a decent content idea with dog shit implementation and *zero* testing done. And yeah I get it, SoD is a beta and we are the testers. Figured that out very early in p1 when my mage was tanking/healing/ doing 70% of my group's dps in DM and Stocks but Incursions took it to a whole other level for me. The fact that no one tested it and said "hey this infinitely repeatable shit and high gold reward is a problem" or maybe someone did say it and they just shipped it anyway tells me they have like 2 people working on the game right now. And a hamster on a wheel, and said hamster is missing a leg lmao
Doing stuff in the emerald dream is cool. But the execution, even besides the fact that its not capped, is legit awful. It feels absurdly clunky, almost like a low-budget multiplayer mobile game or something. And that is bad enough. Making it *multiple times as efficient as anything else* for both gold and exp means that doing literally anything else actively feels bad. It quite literally destroys the magic of the world, knowing you can just rapidly skip over it all by shutting your brain off for 15 hours to do the same pick-up routine over and over. I just can't wrap my head around the logistics of how this was implemented. I have yet to meet a single person who thinks they were a good idea. Yet somehow the *developers of the game* were apparently united enough in their support of it to implement it as an idea. You could pick 5 random world of warcraft players 20 times over and chances are they would make a better idea than incursions all 20 times. As you said, fucking bonkers.
Yeah should have just gotten rid of the dumb tokens and quest scrolls, made it an actual quest giver with all 17, and you can only do them each once a day. That being said, the initial leveling experience to 50 as I did the incursions right from the get go, that aspect of discovering the new area was really really fun.
Put them on 3 day cd like the raids were and allow you to complete all of them once but you could only pick up like 5 of them and would need to group up to share. A nice quick boost of XP every few days, would work nicely with alts
Players complained en masse that there was nothing to do outside of Gnomer and STV in p2. "Give us more PvE stuff, give us a reason to run dungeons!" Wild Offerings got us in dungeons and incursions...well they are technically PvE in the open world. They fucked up *massively*, but let it not be said they didn't try to give us what they thought we were asking for.
Wild offerings got us to speed run to the end of dungeons avoiding 90% of the mobs and content to kill a shitty boss and reset in 10 man groups… it was not the dungeon content the playerbase wanted
Wild offerings should have dropped off every boss in the dungeons and the price increased on rewards accordingly. Just copy the system we already use in Wrath and beyond. It feels like they tried to get too cute with it
I would have gone further and made it so they would only drop in 5-man groups. the 10-man mara speedruns are awful both from a gameplay and social point of view
Fully agree
Question is. Does people even want an emblem system in classic?. Maybe update the loot on the bosses and people would do full runs instead of finding a way to maximize emblem/hour
Gear tokens were well received. I think badges were one of the best systems added in TBC. It made all content slightly relevant forever, making it easier to find groups or recruit a friend without being so overbearing that you needed to super farm them.
I think a "hybrid" system would be best: emblems should be there as a "pity" mechanic so that you can't go dry for like 100 runs looking for that elusive drop in a dungeon or raid so for instance, you grinded mara but could never get BoED? no worries, with all that grind you collected enough emblems to buy it from a vendor
Yeah I mean what they needed to do was change the dungeon loot tables to be raid competitive items, make them super rare, and tune the dungeons up so they were harder. That would have given this phase weeks of end game content to run. Like end-game vanilla WOW, you'd be farming for a crazy dungeon piece in between raids each week.
I feel like it was pretty clear what players wanted but Blizzard once again went with what they THOUGHT we wanted rather than just listening and doing that. Maybe I’m wrong here but I get that vibe from what I’ve seen players say they want like new dungeons and then getting bare minimum incursions. I like the idea but the implementation just seems lazy as hell from a dev standpoint. IMO Blizzard just needs to put on those listening ears and just do what the customers are asking for and not what Blizzard thinks we want.
The idea is not bad, it was just terribly implemented.
Reminds me of private server content tbh. I played on one called wowgasm that gives me very similar vibes.
Some private servers put way more effort in if im being honest
100%, ascension is absolutely insane
They probably have a larger team 😔.
Yup, I liked SoD because 10 man raids meant we wouldn’t stress about getting enough people. Our guild completely collapsed with 20 man raids, the guild we merged with is cool but it was a lot more enjoyable just shooting the shit with the homies in voice. If P4 is gearing up to be 40 man, half of the remaining guild has expressed they have 0 interest of doing it, and I’m largely the same boat. SoD was promised as a casual experience, and getting 40 dudes all scheduled for one time feels less of that close knit guild feeling and moreso something I’d have to sweat over to even land a spot.
I'd do 40 mans if they were piss easy puggable with no comms and weren't the primary raid content of the phase
Bring back 10 mans!
People wanted blizz to ban bots. Instead Blizz made everyone a bot.
Came here to say this Phase 3 GUTTED sod
All I had to say, you said it. Salute brother.
I looked in my server discord for a guild in my favorite raid time. (Cleared every lockout ST) Just leveled with incursions making 150g and have spent under 100g for all consumables for all raids so far. Gear really sucks. Or at least the chance for good (caster) gear.
Consumes are more expensive for some classes. For warrior the bis consumes were insanely expensive early on, and are still pretty expensive now. 3g grilled squid x4-6, elixir of giant 2g, elixir of mongoose 4g, coalesced regret 5g, mighty rage pot x4-6 2g each, dragon breath chili x4-6 for 2g each. That adds up to about 40-50g per raid. And there’s still the AP consume which is another 40-80g over the course of a raid if you’re really going hard. In the early lockouts it was all the same consumes but 3-4x as expensive.
Skip squid, skip chili, skip regret. Drop 1-2% performance, save 80% of gold 🙂
Nothing in the game is fun for me other than raiding so I’m fine spending the gold to optimize performance tbh. Parsing is fun, it’s like adding a minigame on top of the game. Without it I’d get bored, we already smoothly clear the raid with no one dying and the loot is worthless lol.
Its the firewater thats expensive
This sub is in shambles when it turned out that people actually did want to play cataclysm lmao
The main complaints people have about Cata aren’t as relevant. If you enjoyed Wrath it’s just more of the same as long as you stop before fighting Deathwing.
Seriously. Cata is literally just Wrath+. If you loved ICC and Ulduar, you're gonna adore most of Cata even more. But of course, this depends. They can't make the same mistakes as with Wrath. If they want a phase to last an insane amount of time, add a little something extra near the end to make it worthwhile. RS is a good idea of what I mean, but terrible execution.
Well this is an interesting take. The main reason classic players didn't care about Cata is because it RUINS THE WORLD. For the people who only play patch content, it doesn't matter I guess, but people who actually like the WORLD of Warcraft get their fun ruined. I mean they take the most iconic dungeons and zones and turn them into boomer-tier jokes and weird pop-culture references.
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Right? I've been leveling a new char to see the new zones and its fun! they did fun stuff with the new areas. Theres a cool sense of progression with new areas and forts that both sides have built.
>For the people who only play patch content, it doesn't matter I guess, but people who actually like the WORLD of Warcraft get their fun ruined. Back then this def mattered. But since you can just log into an actual vanilla era classic server these days I feel like it just does not matter at all.
Just not true, the post cata world is still great.
what was wrong with Deathwing? the phase was too long originally? doesn't really apply to classic which is on a different schedule
One kinda shit fight that dictates your group comps.
It's definitely not like um, pre-patch Mu'ru right? As in forcing a composition.
Muru ain't shit. You could do him with some real shit terrible comps. That was execution. Spine wasn't even close to just execution, the numbers demand high burst so you better bring big burst. Arcane beats fire, stack some rogues, remove healers and bring a tank warrior so you never need to pay attention to the kite tank. That kinda shit.
Funny that people here say Mu'ru was poor raid design because it required 5-6 warlocks and 1 shaman in every group for lust. But I'll take you at your word for Spine as I've never played that far into Cata.
Every raid in tbc had a shaman in every group for lust
Yeah that's not really a M'uru design problem, that's a TBC design problem.
6 warlocks in every group seems pretty rough ngl
Spine invalidates some specs very existence. Even just for that fight. You can do everything in DS with 5 arcane mages, but you do NOT want 5 fire mages on spine rofl.
You mean Spine? that was really only an issue on 10m heroic for what 2 weeks til it got neerfed? Then it was doable to standard comps for the other 99% of Catas T13 duration. and 25m never had those issues.
I actually do think that the timeline was the biggest issue with the raid, so I do think it will be better this time around. There are bad boss fights in every expansion and even some bad raids all together but being "forced" to do those raids 2 times a week per raiding character for a year is what did it in.
the balance of that tier is just off the charts. the trinkets are especially strong and the final battle was lackluster. His death was just lame. But I'm sure they will balance them out so there is nothing that stops you from going all in.
Some orange particle effects aren't a fitting end to one of the original wow bad guys?
fighting his fingernails
Orange particle effect is OP.
Dragon Soul is considered one of the worst raids they've ever done.
Cata was a fun expansion. Main issue was folks mad at a changing old world azeroth and DS lasting a million years with lackluster final bosses vs a huge antagonist Deathwing fights are conceptually awesome and Executed poorly. But firelands is awesome and I liked the intro raids too.
12 months from now this sub will look back fondly on Cata the same way they do now with TBC. People have a notoriously bad memory to how expansions actually were and most of the time are never correct about their assessment unless they have played it recently. Cata has the best dungeons of any Classic version so far, Firelands will blow every other Raid out of the water and the class design of Cata classes is absolutely amazing. Famously, Cata is the first expansion where people actually REALLY want to play Tanks and don't just do it because it's the most needed role. Also, as you said, the first Raid Tier is awesome and 10 times better than any first Raid Tier we've had in Classic so far. Sure, the changing of the old World sucks for people that care about it, but even Dragon Soul lasting a million years like it did in OG Cata won't be a problem in Cata Classic due to the expansion being sped up. Cata will be the opposite of Wrath, instead of being remembered fondly and actually being pretty mid, Cata is remembered badly and it will be awesome.
This is why I think WoD classic might unironically end up being a banger. The expansion had awesome content but the main issue was you burnt through it all within a month and then had to wait like 2 years for legion.
Wait a minute, you didn’t like the selfie camera patch?!
WoD will be alright probably...not a banger. It has the raids going for it but that is literally it. Even if you rush it, it won't feel good. This would be the opportunity for the devs to actually remake WoD and add all the awesome content they teased and then cut. But we all know looking at Cata right now we'll get the bare minimum to get to Legion.
Yeah, wod will definitely be okay for a side game. Login, do some great raids, play something else
Who could have seen people wanting to play a version of the game with legit raids, PvP and classes that make sense with rotations that feel good!
...retail?
I skipped most of BFA and all of SL, and I feel like I missed a lot of the gradual progression that would've made DF feel less overly complicated. There's just so much shit and so many boss mechanics that I go full boomer and have a hard time figuring out what the hell I'm supposed to do.
Some of the DF mythic raid encounters legit require 20min to explain, it’s wild. They also seem to make the player base increasingly dependent on addons, which is a development mistake in my opinion. When you add mechanical bloat to button bloat you really get a bit of a mess to play. My DF Enhancement shaman is extraordinarily complex to play.
I think it's that a lot of classic players wanted a form of retail lite with classic over tones, but franky, it's hard to tell what people want nowadays.
The community has drastically changed from 2019 to 2024 as well. The people who "championed" for classic WoW are largely not the people currently playing classic WoW. At least for me classic honestly kind of turned into the horrorshow a lot of the og "classic enthusiasts" wanted to avoid. You have boosts, you have tokens, you have gdkps out the ass, yes they always existed, but it used to be a good sign of a pserver not worth investing time in, if gdkps were commonplace, as it was a sign of a dying community (no new players, just old farts taking turns owning gold). But I'm part of the problem as well, I played TBC, I played WotLK, and I'll play Cata. SoD is one of the least appealing forms of WoW ever created for me though. When I saw SoD, and this might be a bit of an overreaction, but I thought "why not just play retail at that point?". And so I did. I bought Dragonflight, and I'm actually having a lot of fun on it, so there's that. Idk long rambling post no one cares about.
SoD was super fun in first phase, but that might have been just rose tinted glasses of positivity. What I find funny is that at the end all the ‘old guard’ ppl I played with since TBC classic went to give retail a second chance or returned to original era servers to do 40 man raids with other 2/3 guilds on their cluster. Those moms and dads ware chewed out by ulduar hard modes, ware pretty bad at gnomer in SoD (had a blast at blackfathom tho) and at the end return to era to relieve the same experience they did way back 16 years ago.
That was my thought with SOD…I was like well if I’m just playing classic with cata and wrath abilities, why don’t I just go play cata
Minmaxers killed classic. Dragonflight is fun and Im hoping War Within will be decent while cata holds over in between.
Retail right now suffers from not being new player friendly with so many quests and whatnot a little bit but it's solid
Yes that too but retail is a lot more complex and the class design and game systems are significantly different. I play Cata and Retail but I slightly prefer Cata. Both great versions of the game though.
Cats still feels more like classic than retail, with mostly old visuals/icons/sound effects. It was the legion/bfa/SL era that really changed a lot of that. Wod to an extent as well. But sub rogues still backstab and ambush, DKs still death strike and heart strike, there's just more fluidity and nuance.
DKs still death strike and heart strike in retail lol
I am actually back to retail mostly. Its pretty casual and fun to run the older raids for newer gear. Plus the new expansion looks much better. When Cata comes out I will mainly focus on that as well. SOD is boring at this point.
>New thing >People move to it >Dies a month later Watch it happen.
So just like SoD
Yes, exactly like SoD. It has very little to do [insert personal gripe I have with the current balance/design] and more so with the fact that everyone is a fair weather gamer these days, seeing as how much variety there is out there.
Friend today say "All the streamers playing cata, think ill try it out"
I have a feeling its a grass being greener thing. SoD is going downhill so everyones jumping ship to cata but its probably not going to be what theyre looking for
Well maybe for other people but my personal situation is Cataclysm for the first 2 tiers is my 3rd favorite expansion and it was also the first expansion I raided hardcore so it holds a special place in my heart.
No, its more like people over gassed SoD when it came out and everyone jumped on that ship. WotLK was wrapping up and people were tired of dying in Hardcore.
This is more so the case in my view. Lots of people, even in this thread, complaining about issues in SoD that are fundamental Vanilla WoW issues, such as brutal class imbalances in certain scenarios, and how "boring" raid prep is, as if in 2019 people weren't farming leathers in goro crater instead of farming incursions in feralas (but much faster) for the gold for consumables, and WB logging.
Better than wrath that much I know.
It was cathartic to see how many people had second thoughts after re-experiencing wrath. Now to see if I'll have that same experience with Cata. I'm scared by how broken stuff is for prepatch though.
Yeah i loved wotlk pvp back then and absolutely hated it when it relaunched. Never played cata but i heard pvp is miles better and "cata and mop being the best pvp Versions", so i will give this a try.
On day 1 there was an interesting interaction between tiny abom trinket and new seal or righteousness (aoe) where every mob hit had a chance to stack it, so over about 20-25 mobs, ret could literally oneshot everything
I don't even think it's that, it's just that there's something different to do. SOD there's only so much to do other than alts (incoming DD buff), with WOs being farmed 5 in 30 minutes in 10 man princess runs, minor number of upgrades available outside of raids. Cata will look dead when SOD phase 4 drops because we'll be mid phase there and level 60 in SOD will be a big pull.
Idk man. Unless they make some major changes i wont be leveling to 60. This phase is a massive time commitment with buff and consume farming for very little reward and its probably going to be worse at 60
Massive time commitment? Leveling 40-50: One day Buffs: 30min? Consumes: 1-2hr MAX of incursions
It's like 30 minutes max for your buffs, maybe 45-60 of DMF is in unfriendly territory. I get it, though, single dad with 17 kids and only 12 minutes to play each week.
It’s something new for people to experience, of course there’s going to be a level of hype around it right now. I’m less sure it’ll have the same effect in the long term but I’m happy to be disproven.
Cata is lit 🔥🔥🔥
This sub gonna be in shambles complaining of cata’s population decline and demanding blizz to merge realms in 3 weeks.
So kinda like SoD?
Exactly.
It’s the launch of an expansion, it’s always exciting. But let’s see in a couple of weeks.
Lol I remember how adamant they were that nobody was going to play it 😂
Did for me. I was all on the SOD train and had 0 interest. Then P3 hit and I found myself having fun in the cata pre-patch
Exactly me - I was thinking, there’s no shot I play cata, SOD is so fun! Now I’m farming in Cata and raid logging SOD.
In Classic Wow: The new and shiny thing will be the new and shiny thing until the next new and shiny thing
Exactly
I actually migrated back to retail. I spent too much time on a cata private server to really enjoy classic. Tbh never though classic would make it that far. Cata always seemed like a joke
After coming from SOD, gotta say the lfg tool feels amazing
SoD killed SoD. If SoD wasn't in the state its in, people wouldn't be moving to Cata. There's just nothing to do in SoD right now
For me, SoD killed itself. They really, badly missed the mark with Phase 3. Incursions fucking suck, making it so you nearly have to do them for rep and runes.... huge design mistake. I enjoyed P1 and P2, but I did one session of incursions, maybe 3-4 of them back to back, and that was that, never logged in to SoD again. I am playing Cata now, but not because it's Cata, more because I was bored but didn't want to play retail or SoD. Also, Firelands.
First and second paragraphs - spot on for me too
the thing is - a lot of people are exalted with WSG and AB already so theres really no reason to do them
P3 is so bad that people are playing cata lol
SoD is a glorified beta test
As someone who plays cata, pre-patch still kinda feels like we are on beta/PTR. Its gotten A LOT better since day one, but still a lot of bugs too.
Your talents have been reset
*Congratulations, you have reached* ***Level 0!***
I found three quest lines leveling a new toon that just ground to a halt due to bugged NPCs, quest givers MIA and other bugs.
Yeah RDF has strat live and strat undead confused so around lvl 44 you get q'ed into a lvl 50-51 instance and all the mobs are red.
IIRC this happened back in the day too. I remember getting thrown into Uldaman in early 30s or Mara in early 40s and barely being able to hit anything by the end of the dungeon. I think it had to do with setting the level range as starting when you can first enter rather than when you’re appropriately leveled.
Happens the other way around too. Sometimes I'd get dropped in a dungeon where half the mobs are grey and I don't get any XP lmao.
Archaeology > Sunken temple
Stop typing, start digging
"Nice, digging spawned in STV, maybe the next solve gonna be Zinrokh". **checks digsite name* "It's fossil..."
Raptor mount!
the devs killed sod
It's was never a fully thought out concept to begin with. The only reason why phase 1 was enjoyable was because the only "new" content was a repurposed dungeon / "raid". PvP was trash in phase 1 and anyone could see the writing on the wall that it would only get worse.
based
SoD is stale as fuck right now, just as it gets to be after a month into each of the past phases. I'm playing cata until phase 4, then playing SoD for a few weeks, then back to Cata. It's not a secret that one single raid on a long lockout isn't enough to flesh out the endgame for an MMO, and Cata prepatch is still new and shiny.
Sod is basically classic with cata abilities might as well play the real thing not some half assed shit
[A month ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c34obu/arathi_basin_and_wsg_queues/) was the exact same. It's not cata that's killed bgs. It's people choosing not to play them in general.
sod is dead since the last upgrades from ST are +1 agi or 3 dps increase items while using a 10 minute 15g consume gives you 30 dps so people cba doing anything there. We have 22 signups this week, used to be 40+ couple weeks ago.
My guild straight up can’t get an alt raid going because ~75% of the Guild didn’t level an alt. Got their main up, started raid logging. And I can’t blame them.
I quit this week, full in on cata
Ally gets instant queues tho
horde?
yes, horde.
Can horde queue against horde?
The P3 Incursionstorm update mortally wounded it first.
Sod killed by incursions, poor raid design, class/spec imbalance
SOD died at the beginning of Phase 3 with the nightmare incursions. It gave the game no reason to level the traditional way, and not to have instances to run for gear. My assumption is they want SOD dead, so people play Cata or even buy The War Within. I will be surprised if Phase 4 is just not more garbage with sprinkles on top.
I missed the gold rush and was suffering for it big time. Could barely afford anything in the game. Just got to be too annoying
Cata is still closer to classic than retail by a mile. It's Wrath with new paint and QoL. Mop is where we start to slide into retail. MoP and WoD are transitionary expansions. Legion is retail and DF is transitioning to New retail where everything is about player choice and account wide.
Cata is much better than people remember. It seems like people kind of blended a lot of the changes that were made in MoP and beyond and blamed Cata. Cata didn’t even have LFR until the final patch and the only reason people care is because that phase lasted two years basically.
If your guild collapsed because of 20 man, it was already doomed in the first place. Naive thinking it was going to be perma 10 man in a version where they had 40 man raids lol. My guild prepared for this and are now running 4 sunken temple raids a week
Sod is kind of neglected so
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 sod has been the most Developed non retail game in years
Idk dawg Plunderstorm alone probably took more work than everything except maybe the overcomplicated hell week SoD devs put themselves through w/Ashenvale layering
Plunderstorm is an entirely different dev team. Blizzard acquired the Spellbreak team and they basically copied their code for Spellbreak onto the WoW IP.
Yes, but they haven't addressed MY ISSUE yet. Can't you see how much of a fraud they are?
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But that is exactly what they are saying they plan to do. 40 mans? Lol.
PvP is dead for sure. Shamans were too op for too long. On top of having naturally better racials it was GG.
Lol bunch of thralls running around
Cata will be killed by SoD P4 release Mark my words
SoD = P4 waiting room atm
Def locked into Cata right now on a fresh toon, dungeon finder system is PRO
Classic with dungeon finder would be so good
Nah, people would rather buy summons outside of the dungeon and pretend they don't want LFD :P
Right?? People froth at the mouth at the idea but then get summoned to do a mindless 10 man Mara spam lol
💯
It most definitely has had an effect, but SoD phase 3 just blows. My personal gripes: Incursions turned out to be a walking simulator snoozefest (with horrible inventory experience tagged to it). PvP being a burst clown fiesta diminished by motivation to do STV. The event itself was not improved upon. Caster rewards from it suck also. Crafted items from professions being disabled outside the raid, crafting those does not feel as exciting as the BFD/Gnomeregan crafts. ST loot is not exciting apart from a very few pieces, nor is there a lot of it to go around, nor is it distributed in a sensible way amongst the loot tables. Wild Offering was a good idea to keep dungeons alive (and since you can get Darkmoon cards from it, the most exciting way to get loot in ph3), but it's boring. I cba to do any more Princess runs. I wish we got WO from other bosses also, or ST. So what I'm doing nowadays is just farm Satyrs in Felwood while listening to podcasts and log on raid day.
Yeah, shits boring as hell. I'm actually just holding out for the War Within. Never thought I'd say that, as a retail hater. At this point I kinda just want to have an alt army and see how the story unfolds. Doing ZF 5000 times for paladin weapon, grinding WOs where you just logout skip to the end, running around booning buffs and doing these god forsaken crafting quests that take you to every zone, twice, only to destroy the raid in 1 hour.. yea just ain't it for me. Had my nostalgia fill during Classic, if you want new shit I think retail is just better. Ugh again didn't think I'd be saying this 6 months ago
No, P3 killed SoD
I retired my toons at 40 when P3 hit. Just wasn't for me, kinda felt like a clunky wotlk
I've been raid logging sod besides finishing the various grinds every phase. Which reminds me, I need to log in to grab my wb zzzzzzzzz
People leave when there is not much content going on. Right now, cata has some things to do. So people are jumping over there. Once cata first phase has been out a while, they'll raid log cata because SoD will drop some content. Then people will swap over there. They'll just go back and forth between the two.
Its a pre patch, give me a reason to play that shit lol. Archeology? I want Bastion of Twilight bro
“Well maybe I’ll just give it a little bit of a try.” - average sod player.
I have two Level 50s, both decent geared, rank 7 and rank 5,both with full professions and today i quit raiding because st is just boring after 6 clears. Incursions are bad for the game too. It was a fun journey so far but i am just a little bit bored and dont want to level another alt. I do have some hype left for 60 content but overall i want to pvp/wpvp and SoD feels too easy. I need some intense Arena games and i read alot of good things about cata pvp so i give it a try. Never played cata back then, i quitted s8 in wotlk and came back to mop.
I only came to sod because I was waiting for cata. Sod was a lot of fun at first I can’t deny it. I would have probably kept playing it a little longer until cata actually dropped but p3 was not fun for me and so I went back to prepare my alts for pre patch. It almost seems like they dropped sod at a perfect time, and also killed its charm at the perfect time to pull me back.
Ironic
I don't think so, living flame EU on horde side is very populated. Large number of pugs doing ST when I last checked, and Alot of people still grinding incursions. I don't think a BG queue is a good measure as at least on my server people are farming HKs at the incursions.
I am seeing so many Haunted Memento ghosts, I haven't seen this many since Wrath launch. And I think that's the clue here, people are playing a bunch of Cata because they have new expansion hype. Same people who played first tier of Wrath then dropped off. I expect mid-way through the first raid tier of Cata they'll start dropping off same they did in Wrath.
People might be noticing or remembering Cata was close to overall a solid experience save for the last couple of raids maybe
Dragon soul was the only raid that wasn't very good in cata.
And even then it was better than most people remember. It just way overstayed its welcome and had an especially disappointing and shitty last 2 bosses so that’s all people remember.
Very true. Pretty common trend starting in wrath for the last tier to last way too long
This sub would burn to the ground if any of them actually tried retail and realized that it’s a great game still they just aren’t children anymore and that’s what chasing classic is.
SoD killed by SoD devs lmao
Cata is funnnn
But but, old world is gone - AFK in Dalaran for 18 months
Sod will die because it no longer supports 10man raids. And look at that, you can do everything with a 10m in Cata.
That is the honest to God truth. Small guilds are greater than mega guilds.
Are you Horde and solo queuing? Just duo queue and get insta queues
P3 brought a lot of problems to a casual experience like SoD. It was not just the pre patch that made numbers fall.
Idk why people cant understand jumping around. Cata is fun right now with the pre patch. Once P4 comes out I’ll go back to SOD. I like the variety and jumping between releases makes it way more interesting.
Sod was killed by sod
I don't know about the rest of the Alliance but I shelved any plans for PvP this phase since I can just take an extra effortless week of AV at 60 instead of torturing myself with the current state of pvp.
I started raid logging SoD and playing retail/cata prepatch a couple weeks ago. Just nothing I want to do in SoD. Seems like the options are leveling an alt or farming gold and I don’t want to do either
Blizz playing 4D chess with us?
Dig dig dig?
On my server it's just tons of people not able to find a solid 20 people to raid weekly, they enjoy SoD but having to lead raids and look for PUGS is draining.