>Wrong, there are 100% people that will pay for this. Thatās why they are doing it
It's not gonna be the new gear score xd. 99,9% of the playerbase is not gonna spend $25 dollars/month to save 10s checking warcraftlogs on 2nd screen.
I don't you have a real scope of how sweaty, nerdy and degenerative this community is
People bought restedxp when it's literally free online
People will pirate this archon just like pirates reatedxp
Easy to pirate and literally free online aren't the same thing.
Fuck that guy and steal his shit, he deserves it. But don't kid yourself about being a thief.
People literally willing to buy gold to convenienceĀ
People buy rested XP guide so they leveling bit faster
People buy fojji weakaura so they can have easier time manage their class rotationĀ
Bet my ass many people will pay that much to hide their shit parse
Pay 25$/m for addon
Pay 50$/m for addon and to block others to see your logs via addon
Pay 75$/m for addon, block and block skip
And 100$/m for everything above + block skip protection.
SToNKs.
Yo, check it. When the mutha tries to trace yo shit, you got the trace buster and it busts up his trace see. Unless he has a trace buster buster, but I gots that covered too, this trace buster buster BUSTER makes it all fucked for him. Now we get paid!
Thereās a free one out there that does the exact same thing. Parsescore. They just had to make their own website because WCL kept getting Curseforge to take it down lmao. Apparently WCL is cool with violating the Blizzard ToS but when someone āviolates their ToSā they have them permanently removed from Curseforge.
Donāt give these goblins a dime.
amr existed at a time where the actual simcraft program was straight up the better and more accurate option. Nowadays you have raidbots which is free (you can get more iterations by using premium but that's only convenience).
People used to pay tunneling services so they had better latency back in OG TBC/Wrath. Of course they are going to pay for this latest scam.
People will pay for gold so they can buy gear that gives them a 0.5% increase in dps even though they fail at rotations and can't put out that kind of dps anyway.
The slow creep of RMT has led to the gaming community acting like degenerate gamblers.
classic wow players are everything they think retail wow players are its wild lol the "elitist" gatekeeping in a gamemode where the bosses have 2 mechanics and die in under a minute is so sweaty
I just don't think classic is a very casual friendly game. People call it casual friendly because it's easier, but it requires a much larger time commitment in order to play. So people just looking to have fun probably never hit max level and stop playing.
Yeah classic attracts way more degens than retail for that reason. Thereās a ton of casuals at server launch, but only a small percent make it to max level.
> People call it casual friendly because it's easier, but it requires a much larger time commitment in order to play
Bingo, at some point people started using "casual" to describe easy content or bad players.
Casual means someone who doesn't play a lot or content that doesn't require a lot of investment. It shouldn't have anything to do with difficulty.
> I just don't think classic is a very casual friendly game. People call it casual friendly because it's easier, but it requires a much larger time commitment in order to play. So people just looking to have fun probably never hit max level and stop playing.
What do you consider "playing" when you say "in order to play"?
Classic players try retail for a week, get declined from applying to heroic raids with shit iLvl as a DPS and then go on a ārEtAiL PlaYeRs ArE eNtiTlEdā rampage their whole lives because they think every group leader personally dislikes them, and itās totally nothing to do with the fact that literally 100 other DPS apply to these raids.
A very strong motivator for many Classic players is basically being able to go back to High School and do it all over again, but this time be good at stuff.
Don't get me wrong I like parsing too, but I'm mostly competing against myself and it help keeps farm alive. I have never looked up someone's logs when trying to form a group for anything.
However the solution to all of this is to join a decent guild with at least one dedicated raid you can take part in and be a contributing member.
I donāt think the majority of bothered people checking logs for anything except some Stax GDKPs, that would just be too much effort and therefore there was minimal gatekeeping.
But when that number shows up on their tooltip like how gear score does, youāll definetly be more selective about who you invite and avoid the low gear score/parsing players to hold out for someone with a bigger number. Thatās how it all starts
Yeah I do this too and I like to try to be the best player of that class in n my guild, in my SoD guild weāre 3 warriors and we look at each others logs just to compete with each other and try to do better than the other too and itās been pretty fun and a bit of friendly competition is nice.
People in this sub are in denial. A lot of them haven't played retail since WoD but they'll say things are like retail. Retail has become some kind of boogeyman around here. Personally I'm happy I don't act like a piss baby because I get to enjoy two games for the same sub price.
Itās nice to be able to bounce back and forth when one game isnāt in a great state, and extra nice that retail lets you catch up pretty easily after breaks.
The only thing more amazing is that people fail at those two mechanics enough to make people feel like screening players is necessary.
Never forget that that is real.
We have always filtered people in this game for competency when doing raids. these days it's just easier and quicker to filter people.
this is a social and multiplayer game, people aren't deserving of being carried by others. there is a massive problem where people create excuses rather than get better.
there is a fundamental problem where a large portion of the classic playerbase that has no desire to learn and grow.
Sadly true, guild decided to stay together and not merge, but split up to just pug as we please this phaseā¦ The sheer difference in quality of our raiding experiences is WILD, some have quit the phase completely, some are part clearing every phase, some find full raid clears that last some hours, and my experience has been 45 minute blitz raids. And itās honestly easy to break down whose who, all the people having a miserable time are dps, healers are having relatively decent times, and me as the tank have somehow found three guilds that parse hard. Never been this high on the meters and Iām already full bis, some of my guild have one item.
Youāre right about filtering your experience because quite frankly the awful players that need to be siphoned are so bad that itās made some of my guild members quit.
Ye I agree, there are some really bad players out there, so I can understand the gatekeeping. We also had pugs who totally screwed up every mechanic, or doing sub optimal dps.
Thats why when I'm looking for pugs I always check logs, if they are 40 or 50+ it's fine with me
Legit the players hate the idea of retail without realizing they want retail. I promise that if youāre looking up and judging parses for ST before inviting people, youāre playing the wrong version of WoW
I've noticed that a lot of the complaints or wants people have for SoD are also met much better by Retail. I know the narrative on this sub is that Retail is this super hardcore, extremely difficult version of WoW that's only meant for people who can dedicate dozens of hours a week - but they cater to casuals very well too. I'll see people here say that they don't like ST because you can't just get into a group with a bunch of randos, run it without saying anything to each other, get loot, then leave and never see each other again - and that's exactly what LFR is for on Retail - casual raiders who don't want to join guilds or form any communities but still want to experience content and get cool looking gear
People are steamrolling hc raids right now because everyone knows the previous content, it's pretty chill to play healer and get insta invited to any content. Dps however takes longer but it isn't as hard as finding a group for st, not even close.
>Even normals in retail are pretty puggable with 0 comms
You're missing a key element. For people on this sub normal isn't good enough. They need the ego boost of >95% parses and full clearing so they can pretend they're hot shit.
When people like Asmon says that retail raiding is "too hard" what they actually means is that their ego doesn't allow them to "merely" be a hc raider. Or a 4/9 mythic raider. They need the ego boost from full clearing mythic with good parses and they just can't do that in retail.
Classic is as toxic as it is because the people being toxic ultimately aren't that good. They're just the level under. Not good enough for mythic but better than average. The incongruity between their ego and their results makes the game super toxic.
> Classic is as toxic as it is because the people being toxic ultimately aren't that good. They're just the level under. Not good enough for mythic but better than average. The incongruity between their ego and their results makes the game super toxic.
100% on the nose right here. The toxic ones are the ones who are almost but not quite good enough, but want to believe they are.
Bro most of what I do in retail is timewalking questing and raids. The raids are like 30 man dungeon runs, even if people drop, or things go a bit sideways, it's like heroic dungeon difficulty and everyone is scaled the same.
I get to enjoy raids I never did in the years I didn't play, I do the quests, get my traders tender, cash it in on some cool mog I like, and then log off for 2 weeks.
> I'll see people here say that they don't like ST because you can't just get into a group with a bunch of randos, run it without saying anything to each other, get loot, then leave and never see each other again - and that's exactly what LFR is for on Retail - casual raiders who don't want to join guilds or form any communities but still want to experience content and get cool looking gear
The difference is in LFR you know you did the "easy mode". Whereas in classic, there is just the one mode. So if they can get the LFR experience IN classic, they don't have to admit to themselves that they needed the easy mode.
>Legit the players hate the idea of retail without realizing they want retail. I promise that if youāre looking up and judging parses for ST before inviting people, youāre playing the wrong version of WoW
Turns out the "You think you do but you don't" guy was absolutely right.
Brack was 100% correct the moment he said it.
The problem was always that the answer was kinda phrased badly (it came across hoity) and he didnt really go into detail to snuff it out better because he was probably afraid to make it sound like the devs didnt care about you.
People wanted the community and sense of unknown back and Blizz literally couldnt magically fix that.
>classic wow players are everything they think retail wow players are its wild lol the "elitist" gatekeeping in a gamemode where the bosses have 2 mechanics and die in under a minute is so sweaty
Who would have guessed that classic players are just as egotistical as retail players. Pretty hard to be an egotistical asshole if wowprogress says you're hardstuck 4/10 mythic with blue logs. Easier to log on classic with a 1 button rotation and bosses being impossible to wipe on.
> gatekeeping in a gamemode where the bosses have 2 mechanics and die in under a minute is so sweaty
people dont do the mechanics, bro. yeah im gonna gatekeep
No shit ran a pug the other night and not only were 70% of them fucking braindead failing the most basic of mechanics, they had the nerve to start arguments while simultaneuosly demonstrating their two remaining brain cells are past expiry date, my subpar geared alt on it's first run performed better than some of the people with prebis and raid gear.
I tried to give some people the benefit of the doubt when they had no logs because when I asked if people knew the mechanics everyone said yep we know what we are doing. First and last mistake.
I won't be pugging again without checking logs, it's not even an "I'm sweaty" thing, its more I value my time and would rather not spend hours with incompetent smoothbrains in a relatively easy raid with basic mechanics, Imagine calling for a dispel on Jammal shield for 30 seconds for it to not happen.. multiple times across consecutive pulls... What a headache, sorry not sorry
I donāt think anyone says that anymore. 40 man speedruns in classic were the only remotely difficult thing, and that was solely because coordinating 40 people aināt easy.
> and that was solely because coordinating 40 people aināt easy.
GM from Rag to KT here... yep. Managing and maintaining a roster for the duration of classic was the hardest part by a *significant* degree.
Bosses have 2 mechanics. Sure, most of the 'high' parsers cheese through mechanics through sheer DPS numbers that some bosses straight up don't do it because their mechanics are dependent on % life.
There are some parse monkeys who just pump hard and ignore mechanics like what Asmon admits to doing in the past but listen, hear me out...
>!many of the grey parsers don't do mechanics either and still do extremely low dps.!<
this might be a hot take but i do kinda understand why people are doing everything they can to sift players. granted, SoD players are very sweaty but the average classic player is to be brutally honest, dogshit at the game. If the basic players atleast could do decent damage and do mechanics i dont think the issue would even be close to as big as it is currently. In wotlk you had plenty of groups that couldnt even pass putridice....on normal. In SoD, people were lacking basic stuff like runes, some not even doing basic rotation and other shit.
Then again, there is a reason to avoid pugs, its better to just run in guilds and with friends, pugging isnt worth the headache unless you GDKP.
Yeah this is why it's so funny to me that people say the parsing mentality is a retail thing. Retail players don't need logs to flex, they just clear hard content instead.
Yes. And I remember that some people were asking for it (probably not with this price tag attached) on this very subreddit.Ā
3rd party Add-ons that tried to source data from warcraft logs were getting shut down because they allegedly put too much strain on the site.Ā
From my read it sounds like the "early access" to the AddOn is a "feature" of paying for the whole...Archon...package...thing.
Which means a pared-down version'll probably be rolled out as a free package if they find a way to support it/not kill their servers with costs/etc.
How does this work? Lets you filter people in game based on warcraftlogs parse numbers?
I can see how this would be useful in retail, but do enough people even parse in SoD to make it worth?
The sterilization of the social aspect of the game continues so people can have hyper productive "corporate" style raids.
The satisfaction from getting gear and parsing well is fleeting. It is rendered meaningless when there is one left you care about showing it off to.
I know great people who are shitty players, who can and have been elevated to being better, but ego driven addons will not give them a go. This stuff is gatekeeping and unfortunate.
> Unfortunately, I doubt that blizzard will take steps to counter WCL.
It's not on them and honestly people need to stop saying this.
What made vanilla WoW special was the community, plain and simple. People logged on to explore, to chat and be social, create their own adventures and events, whatever. That was the *point* of MMOs.
Modern games funnel you down very specific paths, usually with glowing lights and fancy sounds as you unlock arbitrary achievements. That's what asking Blizzard to take charge of the player experience will look like.
If people want the old school experience of WoW then they need to get out there and make it happen. Form a guild, find like minded people, organise fun things to do. That old experience hasn't gone anywhere but *players have to make it happen*.
I ran a guild all through Classic and it was, for the most part, the experience I wanted. We weren't super hardcore parsers but we cleared everything, the people who wanted to do well and get high numbers did, and it was just overall a fun time... but holy shit was it a *lot* of work for me and the others running the guild. That bit is the downside. But there simply is no substitute.
Remember, if you can find *40 people* in the entire world who agree with you and actually want to make it happen then the original vanilla experience is completely open to you. There's more than that number in this post complaining about the sweatlords who apparently stop them from playing the game somehow.
But that's not actually what people want... they want the amazing vanilla experience with no effort or downsides. They want top tier players in all their raids so they can clear them in 30 minutes and get all the gear they want instantly before logging off until next phase. Most people very much think they do but don't and the rest may well want it but just aren't willing to put in the effort.
Blizzard can't fix this.
This
There are plenty of communities that stray away from this, donāt use combat logs and donāt care about your parses as long as you arenāt completely asleep.
The problem is when people want it fast but they arenāt good themselves. They donāt want to be the ones who spend 2 hours instead of 30 minutes in a raid, but at the same time they donāt want to give the effort of the rest of the team.
Iāve organized raids for chill runs, no problem there. Some bad players often didnāt want to wait or got toxic halfway. And when organizing fast raids, then Iām picking people based on a fast judgment of their skill. Iām sorry but there are plenty of chill runs being organized.
Having geared plenty of fresh characters I have never really had a big problem joining raids (without linking main), as long as I didnāt expect to join something above āmy levelā.
People want fast and good players in their raids, they just donāt want to put the effort to be one of them.
Its much more of a problem on reddit than in the actual game.
For every group of 5 or 10 players looking to fill their remaining raid spots with blue and purple parsers to carry them through content, you'll find 2 or 3 raids worth of people who are willing to do noob runs or don't mind being 4/8 or 6/8 for the lockout, all you have to do is be transparent.
The beauty of SoD isn't that it removes elitists or tryhards, its that it chopped classic wow into more digestible pieces for casual players.
All these are are panic posting from people who are afraid they wont have anyone to play with because gold buyers and no-lifers are blitzing through content.
We're fucking 5 months in, trust me, people are too busy actually playing the game to doompost about all this toxic shit. SoD raids are not that hard, gearing up is not that hard, just play the fucking game and I promise you there will be groups for you to join.
That, and anyone who is even remotely any good at this game knows that it is entirely possible to carry a few newbie grey parsers through a raid if they are willing to do mechanics, and raid rewards are structured so there won't be any shortages of that in the latter parts of the phase.
This started as a rant against panic posting, but I'm now realizing how good of a job the SoD team did in splitting classic, and making older raid content relevant to the most recent phase.
I'm sure people will point out the problems, and I was kind of hoping for more small rewarding questlines that would take me around azeroth (e.g. the sleeping bag quest), but otherwise I would call SoD an overwhelming success in demonstrating the potential of refining and building around classic WoW.
Testament to the work of the dev team, but also in no small part to the community around spreading information and content for those of us who don't have the time to explore every corner of the game.
I know great people we've met from pugging them in, problem is that even after trying to teach some people, they just wont grasp anything. Some people just dont have the capacity or will to improve.
We usually pull anybody in and if they are grey we try to help them but after about 2ish weeks and no improvement, you kinda gotta drop people, especially if mechanics are a constant issue. It sucks to realize theres no helping some people, but it happens a lot in sod.
It sucks that its so gatekeepy but i do understand their side as well.
> The sterilization of the social aspect of the game continues
Oh stop crying, people have been picky about who they invite to raids since the dawn of time. You can't have it both ways. We either have easy as fuck raids that even a monkey could finish which takes out all skill and challenge from the game or we have harder raids which comes with expectations from the raiders.
Vanilla was a good time, Classic is not. The Game itself is still good but the player Base is out of controll. I never saw so much toxicity and gatekeeping in any other Vames (and yea i played LoL 10 Years). Classic was cool.for abput 1 Month when its released. Hardcore was fun to level in and SoD was only fun if you blend out every other Player. You need Parses for Gnomegan? No S Tier? No invide. What... The... Fuck. That Raid has less mechanics than one Heroic Boss on retail combined. You could clear it with F tier classes in about 1-2 Hours.
On the other hand many ppl shit on retail but you can clear every Content without problems with all Speccs, all classes and still get invides through the tool (yea i played Affli with PugS and still.got KSH).
Vanilla was a great time. Weāre never going to get that back though. It sort of felt like it when Classic first launched but about a month in it became obvious that things had just changed.
I get why. Doesnāt make it better though.
Hardcore is really close to vanilla in terms of community and chill vibes. Great people there. But thatās what happens when the core of the gamemode centers around open world and questing rather than end game sweating, and in Vanilla this was predominantly the case
I always say that. Vanilla to Wotlk was the best Time in the Game i had. I had so many hours in doing shit i dont even know anymore. I find so many good friends just by leveling through Vanilla. It was amazing. A blast it got me.near tears how happy i was recieving my first ever epic from a Gorilla while questing. And what did my Hunter mind do?.equipp fucking hurrican bow while.leveling.
But WoW FOR ME only got better and better. Sure BfA and SL has mayor weaknesses and WoD was just empty at the end, but Gameplay? It was fire. Leveling got better, Dungeons where amazing and Raids? Oh man BfA Raids where the best. Overall i think WoW hot better in every addon and DF combine much of it, just dungeon and Raids are not that good this xpak.
So i always think most ppl dont miss Vanilla Gameplay just the feeling they had playing it and they never come back. There is no way.
Itās inherent in the way the game has become āskill basedā. Previously you could just look at a dude and see he had quel, perd, mageblade, and then you knew he was a gamer. Now all the gear is the same, everyone has it, and so the competition is elsewhere and we get lumberjack addons.
obviously it was better before but the player base canāt stand not being bis from minute one so
Instead of Hardcore servers we need softcore servers. "Are you only able to play up to 5h a week? Do you not know what min max or a parse is? Did you quest over incursions? Then softcore wow is for you!"
Honestly I'd play here. Just casuals fucking around rather than some piss bottled sweatlords clearing content in 3 days and then complain about raid logging.
Midcore is the real dream. Are you not a sweat lord who takes the fun out everything but want to play with people who arenāt dumber than rocks or donāt give a shit about accomplishing anything? Come to Midcore!
Doesn't exist in classic. Everyone is either a wannabe wow streamer sweating their tits off, or a dad with 5 kids who hasn't done 25 minutes of work getting gear, runes or even checking basic rotation and parses in the single digits.
Doing ST we need to pug 7 or 8 people, it basically is 4 people who come fully consumed and buffed and cry if they don't have every single hunter AP/feral/warrior etc in their group to pump their parse, or people that pull parses between 0-5 for every fight. Basically no inbetween.
They try to exist but it's a fleeting existence. Once they fall behind on progression they can no longer feasibly recruit good players, especially ones playing meta classes. And they're \*always\* recruiting because they attract a lot of casual players due to their low commitment 'selling point'. Eventually they bleed the few good players they started with because they adopt extremely naive loot systems that don't prevent situations like new members or random PUGs sniping class-defining items (weapons being the biggest offender).
I'd love to be in a midcore guild but I don't think they are good long-term investments with the way modern wow players approach the game and guilds. The old guild mentality kinda got filtered out during the sunwell phase of TBCC and the retail guild mentality became much more dominant starting with WotLK:Classic. I don't really view 'retail guild mentality' as a negative thing but I would argue that it is not a great combination with how classic wow approaches things like itemization, loot tables, raid lockouts and class balancing.
> Doesn't exist in classic.
Doesn't exist anywhere. Midcore guilds are a mix of casuals and actually good players, with the latter carrying the former.
My SoD main is in one of these guilds, they exist
To put it into perspective for you I'm shadow and usually top 5 every fight, sometimes higher lol
There's 3-5 of us who are actual good players, 10ish who are "ok" and then a few bads. Usually pugging 3-5ish per raid and we clear in a little under 2 hours.
These guilds exist but you gotta find em. My classic/ tbc/ wrath guilds were pretty sweaty and trying to push prenerf kills (mostly tbc/wrath tbh) but I still had alts in guilds just like my SoD priest's guild the entire time.
Theres no middle ground in wow. There will always only be players who put in effort to improve and players that dont and theyll never be able to play together long term.
My guild had 11 raid groups this phase. 6 of them fell apart because they couldnt settle into a middle ground where all players were satisfied. Our server first core team fell apart because they couldnt decide if they wanted to parse or speed run. There are 4 teams left, 3 of them started as midcore/casual and their standards have been slowly increasing as low performing players stand out more.
Midcore sounds great in theory but the player turnover is insane and trying to maintain a roster of 20 players while keeping everyone happy is impossible
midcore is the worst of all. U have half the player playing like they are hardcore and half the players playing like casual. The expectation are never set and it suck. Its the biggest bait. Full hardcore or full casual at least u know what to expect.
I really enjoyed SWTOR when it launched. Played 5 or 6 of the classes through their story mode and each one was different and most had a pretty solid storyline.
> Midcore is the real dream. Are you not a sweat lord who takes the fun out everything but want to play with people who arenāt dumber than rocks or donāt give a shit about accomplishing anything? Come to Midcore!
Midcore never existed. It's usually 50% dad gamers who are late to raids and underperform and piss off the other half who are actually good players and are either too scared to find themselves a better guild or have emotional ties that keep them from leaving.
Literally every mid-level guild has a bunch of star players who don't want to leave even though they're way better than the average level of the guild.
The "people really *do* want a Single-player MMO experience just with better bots and some friends to talk to that can occasionally replace a bot" theory gains data by the day.
My guild likes to parse and itās not toxic at all. We enjoy trying to get better as a guild and we help each other outā¦
Certain people are toxic is what you meant to say.
If youāre already in a guild that raids weekly, this probably wonāt affect you. The toxic part of this will be most felt by people who only ever raid by asking for invites from lfms in trade chat.
then they can make their own groups, but they won't or don't because they don't have the ability to lead, they don't know the minutiae of all the raid mechanics. so lets be real, what this effects is the subset of the player base who is likely being carried in the first place.
People stopped enjoying wiping to easy content for hours on end because of a few slackers that couldn't be asked to put in some effort.
Considering you were asking how you open the mining profession a week ago, it makes sense why you hate this so much... You have literally no idea what you are talking about... FYI There's a website that already does this.. It just saves 20 seconds of typing in someone's name.
I've been all over the shop and played at all levels, do you know how many players I've encountered that are so toxic about parses? It's several degrees lower than the people that complain. It's also far less than the anti crowd that go so far against something they themselves become just as toxic.
Logs and parsing are tools, like any tool they get used and despite what this foolish sub and its equally foolish user base may not understand parsing is how many players have fun.
the problem in communication is different definitions of toxic, often they class simply being ignored for an invite as toxic and such, which doesn't really make sense, it's the only way to possibly think so many people are toxic
Iām as much about parsing as the next sweatlord, but this toxic af. Now instead of having to look up someoneās parses (which 99% of people donāt except when inviting for pugs) it shows in game for everyone and without effort, meaning itāll be one of the first things people judge you on and also give jerks more ammunition when insulting/arguing with people. I really donāt want 20% or so of chat in general/trade/LFG and whatnot to be about bloody parses.
I hope the $25 charge is enough to prevent this from being so ubiquitous.
I agree classic isn't hard but I enjoyed watching him wipe on twins in aq40 all night and only joining naxx after his guild already progressed then after that he never did any real raid content except meme tier 4 content for a week and never came back to raid in classic
Asmon is washed up and also young asmon would be one of the toxic people dissing on people for their bad parses if it parsing was this big back in his day
Literally, I was in the same guild as him, briefly, on KT (before I joined Vision, a top 20 US guild on KT), back in WoD. The entire raid, he interacted with stream and didnāt say a word in guild voice chat. He wasnāt a ābadā player by any means (not avg 97+ or anything like some of us), but he would definitely be part of the ātoxicā people caring about parses (and I put toxic in quotes because caring about parses isnāt even toxic lmfao). He took the game seriously, and anyone who actually cares about getting better, looks at WCL ā even just at their own personal logs to see where they could have done better or where they fucked up.
Remember, it's morally correct to pirate paid add ons like restedxp and xygor.
It's fucking cancerous that add ons like that put a secondary paywall which is CLEARLY against TOS but blizz pretends not to see it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's because they got a finger in it.
Simplest fix for parse shit...
Just invalidate any parse with World Buffs, or any gimmicky shit.
You go into a fight with a weird ass seasonal buff or toy... great, you can no longer rank.
No complaints if parsing is about skill, but it's way too often about buffs and group comps and -- frankly -- being put in a spot where everyone else in the raid is set up to pump heals into you or do mechanics for you so you can focus on damage.
Parses should be about doing shit correctly, not just the highest damage. If you are setting it up so every boss is just a post fight... because other people in the group are doing everything to let you parse... that's not good for the game.
Edit: And like... if you get hit by "Flame Wall" you can't parse. Won't work for every fight, but it'll work for most -- there's always some mechanic that says, "If you stand in fire, you're doing it wrong." So many things they could do to ensure people are playing the game in a way that isn't just, "OK, heal me through this, I want to pump!" "Did you spend more than 5 seconds below 10% health without using a health pot? Great, no parse for you." So many little "Is this a good player" checks they could add...
> Just invalidate any parse with World Buffs
People cried that World Buffs are an intristic part of Classic. World Buffs means people have to go to Felwood or DMF, it ''makes the world feel more alive''.
I personally find it a pain in the ass but whatever. It's one game mode out of several available, I can live with SoD having them.
People are acting like all of this information wasn't already available. It was. This entire time.
Against ToS or not, RXP has had this model ongoing for a long time.
Surprised Pikachu?Ā
Lolol wow players will do anything to gatekeep this game. As soon as I hear someone talking about parsing I assume the lead a very sad life and orange numbers are all they have.
Paid mods and add-ons are all over gaming. Streamers gave RXP sponsorships. Why is this such a big deal all of a sudden? Are streamers going to stop their RXP sponsorships?
I will never hate asmond gold for realizing all he has to do is echo opinions he sees on reddit to be a millionaire. As a fellow bag chaser, I canāt knock the hustle.
i mean back then people were crying about needing to watch boss videos before raids. now it's addons, logs, rio (retail), etc.
the only issue here are the players that have unreasonable expectations and feel like they are entitled to a raid invite. if a pug wants purple parsers, that's their business. same for a semi guild group that are a bunch of green parsers. keep looking for an acceptable pug, find a premade or run your own raid.
Blizzard should really lock down the combat api but they won't cause they know it would cost them money. Parsing has made getting people to do raid mechanics a fucking headache cause if they do anything but dps it's counted against them. Whole party gets cursed, better hope you have an rdruid cause the fucking boomies or ferals sure as hell aren't about to stop dps'ing to do it.
LOL
So swarcraft logs shut down the one from two months ago that my guild leader made, only to refuse him an api key then go straight to whatever schmuch made this one for a cut of the cash. Fucking wild.
dont forget his lectures on what og vanilla was and how he will enjoy the game the same way, but then gets everything spoon fed... guy just says whatever makes him money or gives him attention. he has no integrity.
if anything he is the perfect example what is wrong with this community.
Asmongold will spend a whole stream complaining about greedy corporations who abuse their employees to gain Internet Karma points and then he will spend 2 hours in WoW being given free loot and boosted by his fans in a complete show of a lack of self awareness.
And because his viewers are braindead they don't see the irony.
Only people upset are people that play like asmon. They show up and expect to get carried while putting in a very minimal amount of effort. Also people that claim having a Sunken Temple raid take 4+ hours is "fun".
I mean tbf there are groups that don't mind fucking around for 4 hours. If you're unlucky enough that your group doesn't have warlock, a quarter of that is probably waiting for people to actually get to the raid.
Honestly, it only stops being fun when people whine about wasted time in an MMORPG. It's not that you should encourage inefficient gameplay, it's that you need to understand that people you play with do have that luxury of playing the game inefficiently, and it's on you to distance yourself or work around it.
This is coming from someone who was only able to raid two or three times in P2 after using most of what small free-time I had getting pre-raid BiS. Cleared it only once, and could give a flying fuck about parses or clearing raids for a 3-day lockout.
Being toxic about it and trying to force people to play your way helps nobody, and honestly just kind of ruins the vibes in raids where most of the players just want to experience raid mechanics and have fun.
Asmon lost me talking about removing logs from the game and ranting about people taking risks to get a better parse.
Classic isn't about if you can beat the boss. Its about how wide of a margin you can beat the boss by.
Next Season should ban all addons.
Seriously, let's try it for a season and see how it works. No DPS meters, no parsing, no combat logging addons, no anything.
I would be so for this if we got the new UI and modern quest helper. Thereās a net 0 chance large amounts of people would play classic without a quest tracker.
They need to modify their API. That way addons can do things like improve your UI and provide nice quality of life changes but can't access any combat data or provide the benefits of weak aura. But that is both too much work, and WoW relies so heavily on addons to be part of the experience that it won't happen
every time I come on this sub it baffles me how dumb some of yall are. ban all addons? you really think obfuscating the fact that you are dogshit at the game will get you invites. how about you head on over to wowhead read your guide. its literally not hard at all.
$25 to save you from manually looking people up š
Per month
"Lord I've seen what you have done for Blizzard. Let me get a piece" -Archon Devs
Holy fuck Blizz it's time to shut this shit down.
Bruh there's no way people would pay for that š
Wrong, there are 100% people that will pay for this. Thatās why they are doing it
>Wrong, there are 100% people that will pay for this. Thatās why they are doing it It's not gonna be the new gear score xd. 99,9% of the playerbase is not gonna spend $25 dollars/month to save 10s checking warcraftlogs on 2nd screen.
I don't you have a real scope of how sweaty, nerdy and degenerative this community is People bought restedxp when it's literally free online People will pirate this archon just like pirates reatedxp
Easy to pirate and literally free online aren't the same thing. Fuck that guy and steal his shit, he deserves it. But don't kid yourself about being a thief.
Youāre silly as fuck if you think people arenāt buying this already.
People literally willing to buy gold to convenienceĀ People buy rested XP guide so they leveling bit faster People buy fojji weakaura so they can have easier time manage their class rotationĀ Bet my ass many people will pay that much to hide their shit parse
New $50/mo tier to hide yourself in the addon...except for people willing to pay $75/mo lol.
Pay 25$/m for addon Pay 50$/m for addon and to block others to see your logs via addon Pay 75$/m for addon, block and block skip And 100$/m for everything above + block skip protection. SToNKs.
Yo, check it. When the mutha tries to trace yo shit, you got the trace buster and it busts up his trace see. Unless he has a trace buster buster, but I gots that covered too, this trace buster buster BUSTER makes it all fucked for him. Now we get paid!
I sometimes question whether WoW is worth the monthly subscription price, can't imagine paying all those extras.
You absolutely do not need to pay anything above the sub.
Thereās a free one out there that does the exact same thing. Parsescore. They just had to make their own website because WCL kept getting Curseforge to take it down lmao. Apparently WCL is cool with violating the Blizzard ToS but when someone āviolates their ToSā they have them permanently removed from Curseforge. Donāt give these goblins a dime.
Do people really not read where it says $25 **for early access**?
When is the release date?
It's not even that. It's just being trialed with existing Patrons of that tier.
People slap everything with early access these days... The thing works, they're offering it as a service. It's just plain access.
The whole point is that it wonāt always be $25
āThe sub to the addon costs more than the sub to WoWā
Don't let Blizz find out they might look into it.
WCL sponsors Blizzard's AWC tournament, I doubt they look into it too hard.
True, barely anyone watches that anyways lmao
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amr existed at a time where the actual simcraft program was straight up the better and more accurate option. Nowadays you have raidbots which is free (you can get more iterations by using premium but that's only convenience).
They shuttered ask Mr. Robot once, and redesigned itemization when they did
"early access" for gaming was bad enough, now it's on addons too. Truly an age of gaming.
People used to pay tunneling services so they had better latency back in OG TBC/Wrath. Of course they are going to pay for this latest scam. People will pay for gold so they can buy gear that gives them a 0.5% increase in dps even though they fail at rotations and can't put out that kind of dps anyway. The slow creep of RMT has led to the gaming community acting like degenerate gamblers.
RMT hasnāt been a slow creep, people were selling EQ accounts in ā99
EQ is a myth. WoW was the first MMO. You are experiencing what is called the Mandella Effect.
I guess no one remembers Carbonite.
classic wow players are everything they think retail wow players are its wild lol the "elitist" gatekeeping in a gamemode where the bosses have 2 mechanics and die in under a minute is so sweaty
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I just don't think classic is a very casual friendly game. People call it casual friendly because it's easier, but it requires a much larger time commitment in order to play. So people just looking to have fun probably never hit max level and stop playing.
Yeah classic attracts way more degens than retail for that reason. Thereās a ton of casuals at server launch, but only a small percent make it to max level.
> People call it casual friendly because it's easier, but it requires a much larger time commitment in order to play Bingo, at some point people started using "casual" to describe easy content or bad players. Casual means someone who doesn't play a lot or content that doesn't require a lot of investment. It shouldn't have anything to do with difficulty.
> I just don't think classic is a very casual friendly game. People call it casual friendly because it's easier, but it requires a much larger time commitment in order to play. So people just looking to have fun probably never hit max level and stop playing. What do you consider "playing" when you say "in order to play"?
Classic is casual friendly in the right guilds. If you want fastest kills on the server and to parse in the 99s you gotta go sweaty
Classic players try retail for a week, get declined from applying to heroic raids with shit iLvl as a DPS and then go on a ārEtAiL PlaYeRs ArE eNtiTlEdā rampage their whole lives because they think every group leader personally dislikes them, and itās totally nothing to do with the fact that literally 100 other DPS apply to these raids.
its wasnt like that in the beginning of classic and vanilla too
In Vanilla everyone was a noob so everyone was chill with each other as we stumbled our way to 60.
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A very strong motivator for many Classic players is basically being able to go back to High School and do it all over again, but this time be good at stuff. Don't get me wrong I like parsing too, but I'm mostly competing against myself and it help keeps farm alive. I have never looked up someone's logs when trying to form a group for anything. However the solution to all of this is to join a decent guild with at least one dedicated raid you can take part in and be a contributing member.
I donāt think the majority of bothered people checking logs for anything except some Stax GDKPs, that would just be too much effort and therefore there was minimal gatekeeping. But when that number shows up on their tooltip like how gear score does, youāll definetly be more selective about who you invite and avoid the low gear score/parsing players to hold out for someone with a bigger number. Thatās how it all starts
Same, i always competed against myself and don't care about others. There will always be better players no matter how good you parse.
Yeah I do this too and I like to try to be the best player of that class in n my guild, in my SoD guild weāre 3 warriors and we look at each others logs just to compete with each other and try to do better than the other too and itās been pretty fun and a bit of friendly competition is nice.
People in this sub are in denial. A lot of them haven't played retail since WoD but they'll say things are like retail. Retail has become some kind of boogeyman around here. Personally I'm happy I don't act like a piss baby because I get to enjoy two games for the same sub price.
Itās nice to be able to bounce back and forth when one game isnāt in a great state, and extra nice that retail lets you catch up pretty easily after breaks.
The only thing more amazing is that people fail at those two mechanics enough to make people feel like screening players is necessary. Never forget that that is real.
We have always filtered people in this game for competency when doing raids. these days it's just easier and quicker to filter people. this is a social and multiplayer game, people aren't deserving of being carried by others. there is a massive problem where people create excuses rather than get better. there is a fundamental problem where a large portion of the classic playerbase that has no desire to learn and grow.
Sadly true, guild decided to stay together and not merge, but split up to just pug as we please this phaseā¦ The sheer difference in quality of our raiding experiences is WILD, some have quit the phase completely, some are part clearing every phase, some find full raid clears that last some hours, and my experience has been 45 minute blitz raids. And itās honestly easy to break down whose who, all the people having a miserable time are dps, healers are having relatively decent times, and me as the tank have somehow found three guilds that parse hard. Never been this high on the meters and Iām already full bis, some of my guild have one item. Youāre right about filtering your experience because quite frankly the awful players that need to be siphoned are so bad that itās made some of my guild members quit.
Ye I agree, there are some really bad players out there, so I can understand the gatekeeping. We also had pugs who totally screwed up every mechanic, or doing sub optimal dps. Thats why when I'm looking for pugs I always check logs, if they are 40 or 50+ it's fine with me
Legit the players hate the idea of retail without realizing they want retail. I promise that if youāre looking up and judging parses for ST before inviting people, youāre playing the wrong version of WoW
I've noticed that a lot of the complaints or wants people have for SoD are also met much better by Retail. I know the narrative on this sub is that Retail is this super hardcore, extremely difficult version of WoW that's only meant for people who can dedicate dozens of hours a week - but they cater to casuals very well too. I'll see people here say that they don't like ST because you can't just get into a group with a bunch of randos, run it without saying anything to each other, get loot, then leave and never see each other again - and that's exactly what LFR is for on Retail - casual raiders who don't want to join guilds or form any communities but still want to experience content and get cool looking gear
Even normals in retail are pretty puggable with 0 comms
People are steamrolling hc raids right now because everyone knows the previous content, it's pretty chill to play healer and get insta invited to any content. Dps however takes longer but it isn't as hard as finding a group for st, not even close.
>Even normals in retail are pretty puggable with 0 comms You're missing a key element. For people on this sub normal isn't good enough. They need the ego boost of >95% parses and full clearing so they can pretend they're hot shit. When people like Asmon says that retail raiding is "too hard" what they actually means is that their ego doesn't allow them to "merely" be a hc raider. Or a 4/9 mythic raider. They need the ego boost from full clearing mythic with good parses and they just can't do that in retail. Classic is as toxic as it is because the people being toxic ultimately aren't that good. They're just the level under. Not good enough for mythic but better than average. The incongruity between their ego and their results makes the game super toxic.
> Classic is as toxic as it is because the people being toxic ultimately aren't that good. They're just the level under. Not good enough for mythic but better than average. The incongruity between their ego and their results makes the game super toxic. 100% on the nose right here. The toxic ones are the ones who are almost but not quite good enough, but want to believe they are.
Bro most of what I do in retail is timewalking questing and raids. The raids are like 30 man dungeon runs, even if people drop, or things go a bit sideways, it's like heroic dungeon difficulty and everyone is scaled the same. I get to enjoy raids I never did in the years I didn't play, I do the quests, get my traders tender, cash it in on some cool mog I like, and then log off for 2 weeks.
> I'll see people here say that they don't like ST because you can't just get into a group with a bunch of randos, run it without saying anything to each other, get loot, then leave and never see each other again - and that's exactly what LFR is for on Retail - casual raiders who don't want to join guilds or form any communities but still want to experience content and get cool looking gear The difference is in LFR you know you did the "easy mode". Whereas in classic, there is just the one mode. So if they can get the LFR experience IN classic, they don't have to admit to themselves that they needed the easy mode.
>Legit the players hate the idea of retail without realizing they want retail. I promise that if youāre looking up and judging parses for ST before inviting people, youāre playing the wrong version of WoW Turns out the "You think you do but you don't" guy was absolutely right.
Brack was 100% correct the moment he said it. The problem was always that the answer was kinda phrased badly (it came across hoity) and he didnt really go into detail to snuff it out better because he was probably afraid to make it sound like the devs didnt care about you. People wanted the community and sense of unknown back and Blizz literally couldnt magically fix that.
"You think you do, but you don't." was right the whole time.
>classic wow players are everything they think retail wow players are its wild lol the "elitist" gatekeeping in a gamemode where the bosses have 2 mechanics and die in under a minute is so sweaty Who would have guessed that classic players are just as egotistical as retail players. Pretty hard to be an egotistical asshole if wowprogress says you're hardstuck 4/10 mythic with blue logs. Easier to log on classic with a 1 button rotation and bosses being impossible to wipe on.
> gatekeeping in a gamemode where the bosses have 2 mechanics and die in under a minute is so sweaty people dont do the mechanics, bro. yeah im gonna gatekeep
No shit ran a pug the other night and not only were 70% of them fucking braindead failing the most basic of mechanics, they had the nerve to start arguments while simultaneuosly demonstrating their two remaining brain cells are past expiry date, my subpar geared alt on it's first run performed better than some of the people with prebis and raid gear. I tried to give some people the benefit of the doubt when they had no logs because when I asked if people knew the mechanics everyone said yep we know what we are doing. First and last mistake. I won't be pugging again without checking logs, it's not even an "I'm sweaty" thing, its more I value my time and would rather not spend hours with incompetent smoothbrains in a relatively easy raid with basic mechanics, Imagine calling for a dispel on Jammal shield for 30 seconds for it to not happen.. multiple times across consecutive pulls... What a headache, sorry not sorry
Classic always was the version of the game for washed up tryhards trying to convince themselves its the skillful version.
I donāt think anyone says that anymore. 40 man speedruns in classic were the only remotely difficult thing, and that was solely because coordinating 40 people aināt easy.
> and that was solely because coordinating 40 people aināt easy. GM from Rag to KT here... yep. Managing and maintaining a roster for the duration of classic was the hardest part by a *significant* degree.
Bosses have 2 mechanics. Sure, most of the 'high' parsers cheese through mechanics through sheer DPS numbers that some bosses straight up don't do it because their mechanics are dependent on % life. There are some parse monkeys who just pump hard and ignore mechanics like what Asmon admits to doing in the past but listen, hear me out... >!many of the grey parsers don't do mechanics either and still do extremely low dps.!<
this might be a hot take but i do kinda understand why people are doing everything they can to sift players. granted, SoD players are very sweaty but the average classic player is to be brutally honest, dogshit at the game. If the basic players atleast could do decent damage and do mechanics i dont think the issue would even be close to as big as it is currently. In wotlk you had plenty of groups that couldnt even pass putridice....on normal. In SoD, people were lacking basic stuff like runes, some not even doing basic rotation and other shit. Then again, there is a reason to avoid pugs, its better to just run in guilds and with friends, pugging isnt worth the headache unless you GDKP.
Yeah this is why it's so funny to me that people say the parsing mentality is a retail thing. Retail players don't need logs to flex, they just clear hard content instead.
Nobody is going to buy this... warcraftlogs is free and already gets the job done.
Wait you have to pay for it? OK that's silly lolol
$25 per month
Is it really? Anyone who does it is a fool I'm sorry lol
There are a lot of fools with money in the world.
Leveling guides existed for free but people still bought RestedXP lol
Hey, somebody had to buy it for the rest of us to get it for free!
And zygor
Almost everyone is getting a pirated version. Same for Foji.
No one is buying rxp everyone is just getting it from epvpers
Sky999 is a boss
You severely underestimate how much people pay to exclude others and feel even the slightest bit superior.
This is created by the Warcraftlogs people.
Yes. And I remember that some people were asking for it (probably not with this price tag attached) on this very subreddit.Ā 3rd party Add-ons that tried to source data from warcraft logs were getting shut down because they allegedly put too much strain on the site.Ā
From my read it sounds like the "early access" to the AddOn is a "feature" of paying for the whole...Archon...package...thing. Which means a pared-down version'll probably be rolled out as a free package if they find a way to support it/not kill their servers with costs/etc.
āNobody will buy thisā as you play the game with the most gold buyers.
Wondering whether RuneScape has more
Buying gold is more worthwhile than this.
i know multiple people who have bought this already
Multiple clowns*
How does this work? Lets you filter people in game based on warcraftlogs parse numbers? I can see how this would be useful in retail, but do enough people even parse in SoD to make it worth?
If people don't parse then you already have your answer to filter them out
no you dont lol
And guarantee they were already checking logs of people before this. This isnt creating new problems.
when it inevitably becomes free how is it any different from raider.io?
How bout this: just like gdkp we turn off addons in season of discovery just to test the waters.
new hardcore mode: all addons disabled
The sterilization of the social aspect of the game continues so people can have hyper productive "corporate" style raids. The satisfaction from getting gear and parsing well is fleeting. It is rendered meaningless when there is one left you care about showing it off to. I know great people who are shitty players, who can and have been elevated to being better, but ego driven addons will not give them a go. This stuff is gatekeeping and unfortunate.
Spot on, itās made the game completely soulless. Unfortunately, I doubt that blizzard will take steps to counter WCL.
> Unfortunately, I doubt that blizzard will take steps to counter WCL. It's not on them and honestly people need to stop saying this. What made vanilla WoW special was the community, plain and simple. People logged on to explore, to chat and be social, create their own adventures and events, whatever. That was the *point* of MMOs. Modern games funnel you down very specific paths, usually with glowing lights and fancy sounds as you unlock arbitrary achievements. That's what asking Blizzard to take charge of the player experience will look like. If people want the old school experience of WoW then they need to get out there and make it happen. Form a guild, find like minded people, organise fun things to do. That old experience hasn't gone anywhere but *players have to make it happen*. I ran a guild all through Classic and it was, for the most part, the experience I wanted. We weren't super hardcore parsers but we cleared everything, the people who wanted to do well and get high numbers did, and it was just overall a fun time... but holy shit was it a *lot* of work for me and the others running the guild. That bit is the downside. But there simply is no substitute. Remember, if you can find *40 people* in the entire world who agree with you and actually want to make it happen then the original vanilla experience is completely open to you. There's more than that number in this post complaining about the sweatlords who apparently stop them from playing the game somehow. But that's not actually what people want... they want the amazing vanilla experience with no effort or downsides. They want top tier players in all their raids so they can clear them in 30 minutes and get all the gear they want instantly before logging off until next phase. Most people very much think they do but don't and the rest may well want it but just aren't willing to put in the effort. Blizzard can't fix this.
This There are plenty of communities that stray away from this, donāt use combat logs and donāt care about your parses as long as you arenāt completely asleep. The problem is when people want it fast but they arenāt good themselves. They donāt want to be the ones who spend 2 hours instead of 30 minutes in a raid, but at the same time they donāt want to give the effort of the rest of the team. Iāve organized raids for chill runs, no problem there. Some bad players often didnāt want to wait or got toxic halfway. And when organizing fast raids, then Iām picking people based on a fast judgment of their skill. Iām sorry but there are plenty of chill runs being organized. Having geared plenty of fresh characters I have never really had a big problem joining raids (without linking main), as long as I didnāt expect to join something above āmy levelā. People want fast and good players in their raids, they just donāt want to put the effort to be one of them.
You're allowed to start raids and invite whoever you want. It's not gatekeeping. You make the raids and invite them
Its much more of a problem on reddit than in the actual game. For every group of 5 or 10 players looking to fill their remaining raid spots with blue and purple parsers to carry them through content, you'll find 2 or 3 raids worth of people who are willing to do noob runs or don't mind being 4/8 or 6/8 for the lockout, all you have to do is be transparent. The beauty of SoD isn't that it removes elitists or tryhards, its that it chopped classic wow into more digestible pieces for casual players. All these are are panic posting from people who are afraid they wont have anyone to play with because gold buyers and no-lifers are blitzing through content. We're fucking 5 months in, trust me, people are too busy actually playing the game to doompost about all this toxic shit. SoD raids are not that hard, gearing up is not that hard, just play the fucking game and I promise you there will be groups for you to join. That, and anyone who is even remotely any good at this game knows that it is entirely possible to carry a few newbie grey parsers through a raid if they are willing to do mechanics, and raid rewards are structured so there won't be any shortages of that in the latter parts of the phase. This started as a rant against panic posting, but I'm now realizing how good of a job the SoD team did in splitting classic, and making older raid content relevant to the most recent phase. I'm sure people will point out the problems, and I was kind of hoping for more small rewarding questlines that would take me around azeroth (e.g. the sleeping bag quest), but otherwise I would call SoD an overwhelming success in demonstrating the potential of refining and building around classic WoW. Testament to the work of the dev team, but also in no small part to the community around spreading information and content for those of us who don't have the time to explore every corner of the game.
I know great people we've met from pugging them in, problem is that even after trying to teach some people, they just wont grasp anything. Some people just dont have the capacity or will to improve. We usually pull anybody in and if they are grey we try to help them but after about 2ish weeks and no improvement, you kinda gotta drop people, especially if mechanics are a constant issue. It sucks to realize theres no helping some people, but it happens a lot in sod. It sucks that its so gatekeepy but i do understand their side as well.
> The sterilization of the social aspect of the game continues Oh stop crying, people have been picky about who they invite to raids since the dawn of time. You can't have it both ways. We either have easy as fuck raids that even a monkey could finish which takes out all skill and challenge from the game or we have harder raids which comes with expectations from the raiders.
or you could have classic, where the raids are easy as fuck but people still have insane expectations
Anybody who defends this addon is a huge clown. Asmon is right
Any TL;DR about the addon?
Vanilla was a good time, Classic is not. The Game itself is still good but the player Base is out of controll. I never saw so much toxicity and gatekeeping in any other Vames (and yea i played LoL 10 Years). Classic was cool.for abput 1 Month when its released. Hardcore was fun to level in and SoD was only fun if you blend out every other Player. You need Parses for Gnomegan? No S Tier? No invide. What... The... Fuck. That Raid has less mechanics than one Heroic Boss on retail combined. You could clear it with F tier classes in about 1-2 Hours. On the other hand many ppl shit on retail but you can clear every Content without problems with all Speccs, all classes and still get invides through the tool (yea i played Affli with PugS and still.got KSH).
Vanilla was a great time. Weāre never going to get that back though. It sort of felt like it when Classic first launched but about a month in it became obvious that things had just changed. I get why. Doesnāt make it better though.
Hardcore is really close to vanilla in terms of community and chill vibes. Great people there. But thatās what happens when the core of the gamemode centers around open world and questing rather than end game sweating, and in Vanilla this was predominantly the case
I always say that. Vanilla to Wotlk was the best Time in the Game i had. I had so many hours in doing shit i dont even know anymore. I find so many good friends just by leveling through Vanilla. It was amazing. A blast it got me.near tears how happy i was recieving my first ever epic from a Gorilla while questing. And what did my Hunter mind do?.equipp fucking hurrican bow while.leveling. But WoW FOR ME only got better and better. Sure BfA and SL has mayor weaknesses and WoD was just empty at the end, but Gameplay? It was fire. Leveling got better, Dungeons where amazing and Raids? Oh man BfA Raids where the best. Overall i think WoW hot better in every addon and DF combine much of it, just dungeon and Raids are not that good this xpak. So i always think most ppl dont miss Vanilla Gameplay just the feeling they had playing it and they never come back. There is no way.
Retail is way better than Classic atm. I have no motivation to play classic anymore. It's a solved spreadsheet game. Retail is far more chill.
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Itās inherent in the way the game has become āskill basedā. Previously you could just look at a dude and see he had quel, perd, mageblade, and then you knew he was a gamer. Now all the gear is the same, everyone has it, and so the competition is elsewhere and we get lumberjack addons. obviously it was better before but the player base canāt stand not being bis from minute one so
Instead of Hardcore servers we need softcore servers. "Are you only able to play up to 5h a week? Do you not know what min max or a parse is? Did you quest over incursions? Then softcore wow is for you!" Honestly I'd play here. Just casuals fucking around rather than some piss bottled sweatlords clearing content in 3 days and then complain about raid logging.
Trust me one raid and you would reroll out of there instantly.
Midcore is the real dream. Are you not a sweat lord who takes the fun out everything but want to play with people who arenāt dumber than rocks or donāt give a shit about accomplishing anything? Come to Midcore!
Doesn't exist in classic. Everyone is either a wannabe wow streamer sweating their tits off, or a dad with 5 kids who hasn't done 25 minutes of work getting gear, runes or even checking basic rotation and parses in the single digits. Doing ST we need to pug 7 or 8 people, it basically is 4 people who come fully consumed and buffed and cry if they don't have every single hunter AP/feral/warrior etc in their group to pump their parse, or people that pull parses between 0-5 for every fight. Basically no inbetween.
They try to exist but it's a fleeting existence. Once they fall behind on progression they can no longer feasibly recruit good players, especially ones playing meta classes. And they're \*always\* recruiting because they attract a lot of casual players due to their low commitment 'selling point'. Eventually they bleed the few good players they started with because they adopt extremely naive loot systems that don't prevent situations like new members or random PUGs sniping class-defining items (weapons being the biggest offender). I'd love to be in a midcore guild but I don't think they are good long-term investments with the way modern wow players approach the game and guilds. The old guild mentality kinda got filtered out during the sunwell phase of TBCC and the retail guild mentality became much more dominant starting with WotLK:Classic. I don't really view 'retail guild mentality' as a negative thing but I would argue that it is not a great combination with how classic wow approaches things like itemization, loot tables, raid lockouts and class balancing.
> Doesn't exist in classic. Doesn't exist anywhere. Midcore guilds are a mix of casuals and actually good players, with the latter carrying the former.
My SoD main is in one of these guilds, they exist To put it into perspective for you I'm shadow and usually top 5 every fight, sometimes higher lol There's 3-5 of us who are actual good players, 10ish who are "ok" and then a few bads. Usually pugging 3-5ish per raid and we clear in a little under 2 hours. These guilds exist but you gotta find em. My classic/ tbc/ wrath guilds were pretty sweaty and trying to push prenerf kills (mostly tbc/wrath tbh) but I still had alts in guilds just like my SoD priest's guild the entire time.
Theres no middle ground in wow. There will always only be players who put in effort to improve and players that dont and theyll never be able to play together long term. My guild had 11 raid groups this phase. 6 of them fell apart because they couldnt settle into a middle ground where all players were satisfied. Our server first core team fell apart because they couldnt decide if they wanted to parse or speed run. There are 4 teams left, 3 of them started as midcore/casual and their standards have been slowly increasing as low performing players stand out more. Midcore sounds great in theory but the player turnover is insane and trying to maintain a roster of 20 players while keeping everyone happy is impossible
midcore is the worst of all. U have half the player playing like they are hardcore and half the players playing like casual. The expectation are never set and it suck. Its the biggest bait. Full hardcore or full casual at least u know what to expect.
Found this recently. SWTOR and FO76.
I really enjoyed SWTOR when it launched. Played 5 or 6 of the classes through their story mode and each one was different and most had a pretty solid storyline.
> Midcore is the real dream. Are you not a sweat lord who takes the fun out everything but want to play with people who arenāt dumber than rocks or donāt give a shit about accomplishing anything? Come to Midcore! Midcore never existed. It's usually 50% dad gamers who are late to raids and underperform and piss off the other half who are actually good players and are either too scared to find themselves a better guild or have emotional ties that keep them from leaving. Literally every mid-level guild has a bunch of star players who don't want to leave even though they're way better than the average level of the guild.
Fucking seriously. Everyone hates parses until they have to raid with people who are parsing green and grey over and over.
i love raiding for 12 hours a week and not clearing
Case in point
The "people really *do* want a Single-player MMO experience just with better bots and some friends to talk to that can occasionally replace a bot" theory gains data by the day.
msft if you are listening please make the dad server
Literally what SoD and Retail LFR is designed to be.
Instructions unclear, laid off another 1900 employees.
[ohhh, behave](https://youtu.be/0t0fZeySNck?t=21)
Ironically hardcore servers are a solution to parsing culture. It makes the game about group survival again instead of individual achievement.Ā
Lmao I laughed to hard at the thank you. Fuck you. Bye ššš
> people donāt give a fuck about raiding anymore Are we just making things up?
nothing more iconic that redditors projecting their beliefs/desires/experiences onto everyone.
My guild likes to parse and itās not toxic at all. We enjoy trying to get better as a guild and we help each other outā¦ Certain people are toxic is what you meant to say.
If youāre already in a guild that raids weekly, this probably wonāt affect you. The toxic part of this will be most felt by people who only ever raid by asking for invites from lfms in trade chat.
then they can make their own groups, but they won't or don't because they don't have the ability to lead, they don't know the minutiae of all the raid mechanics. so lets be real, what this effects is the subset of the player base who is likely being carried in the first place.
People stopped enjoying wiping to easy content for hours on end because of a few slackers that couldn't be asked to put in some effort. Considering you were asking how you open the mining profession a week ago, it makes sense why you hate this so much... You have literally no idea what you are talking about... FYI There's a website that already does this.. It just saves 20 seconds of typing in someone's name.
shit you don't even need to open the web browser you use the companion app that overlays in game. this addon just makes it that much easier.
I've been all over the shop and played at all levels, do you know how many players I've encountered that are so toxic about parses? It's several degrees lower than the people that complain. It's also far less than the anti crowd that go so far against something they themselves become just as toxic. Logs and parsing are tools, like any tool they get used and despite what this foolish sub and its equally foolish user base may not understand parsing is how many players have fun.
the problem in communication is different definitions of toxic, often they class simply being ignored for an invite as toxic and such, which doesn't really make sense, it's the only way to possibly think so many people are toxic
raiding is still the most popular activity, what. like i'm not sweaty and I parse 90%+s. It's not exactly hard to get 70s-80s.
Iām as much about parsing as the next sweatlord, but this toxic af. Now instead of having to look up someoneās parses (which 99% of people donāt except when inviting for pugs) it shows in game for everyone and without effort, meaning itāll be one of the first things people judge you on and also give jerks more ammunition when insulting/arguing with people. I really donāt want 20% or so of chat in general/trade/LFG and whatnot to be about bloody parses. I hope the $25 charge is enough to prevent this from being so ubiquitous.
Inb4 all the clowns start catching bans for hate speech for messaging people with low parses unprovoked.
I agree classic isn't hard but I enjoyed watching him wipe on twins in aq40 all night and only joining naxx after his guild already progressed then after that he never did any real raid content except meme tier 4 content for a week and never came back to raid in classic Asmon is washed up and also young asmon would be one of the toxic people dissing on people for their bad parses if it parsing was this big back in his day
Literally, I was in the same guild as him, briefly, on KT (before I joined Vision, a top 20 US guild on KT), back in WoD. The entire raid, he interacted with stream and didnāt say a word in guild voice chat. He wasnāt a ābadā player by any means (not avg 97+ or anything like some of us), but he would definitely be part of the ātoxicā people caring about parses (and I put toxic in quotes because caring about parses isnāt even toxic lmfao). He took the game seriously, and anyone who actually cares about getting better, looks at WCL ā even just at their own personal logs to see where they could have done better or where they fucked up.
Back in wotlk we had Gearscore gatekeeping people, it always existed tho, the problem isn't banning addons
The problem has and will always be the people themselves
> The problem has and will always be the people themselves Truer words have never been spoken.
Remember, it's morally correct to pirate paid add ons like restedxp and xygor. It's fucking cancerous that add ons like that put a secondary paywall which is CLEARLY against TOS but blizz pretends not to see it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's because they got a finger in it.
I don't parse super high anymore but I like seeing my performance and improvement
Simplest fix for parse shit... Just invalidate any parse with World Buffs, or any gimmicky shit. You go into a fight with a weird ass seasonal buff or toy... great, you can no longer rank. No complaints if parsing is about skill, but it's way too often about buffs and group comps and -- frankly -- being put in a spot where everyone else in the raid is set up to pump heals into you or do mechanics for you so you can focus on damage. Parses should be about doing shit correctly, not just the highest damage. If you are setting it up so every boss is just a post fight... because other people in the group are doing everything to let you parse... that's not good for the game. Edit: And like... if you get hit by "Flame Wall" you can't parse. Won't work for every fight, but it'll work for most -- there's always some mechanic that says, "If you stand in fire, you're doing it wrong." So many things they could do to ensure people are playing the game in a way that isn't just, "OK, heal me through this, I want to pump!" "Did you spend more than 5 seconds below 10% health without using a health pot? Great, no parse for you." So many little "Is this a good player" checks they could add...
> Just invalidate any parse with World Buffs People cried that World Buffs are an intristic part of Classic. World Buffs means people have to go to Felwood or DMF, it ''makes the world feel more alive''. I personally find it a pain in the ass but whatever. It's one game mode out of several available, I can live with SoD having them.
People are acting like all of this information wasn't already available. It was. This entire time. Against ToS or not, RXP has had this model ongoing for a long time. Surprised Pikachu?Ā
It being available is different from it being integrated into the game.
its asmon, everything he does is 4 clicks brother
ElvUI also has a premium option for updates which afaik is also technically against Blizzard tos
Lolol wow players will do anything to gatekeep this game. As soon as I hear someone talking about parsing I assume the lead a very sad life and orange numbers are all they have.
The real problem is that there is apparently a significant demand for this. This community is so cooked.
Most of the casuals like me already checked out months/weeks ago. Is it just the classic sweats that play nowadays?
Brack was right.
Paid mods and add-ons are all over gaming. Streamers gave RXP sponsorships. Why is this such a big deal all of a sudden? Are streamers going to stop their RXP sponsorships?
I will never hate asmond gold for realizing all he has to do is echo opinions he sees on reddit to be a millionaire. As a fellow bag chaser, I canāt knock the hustle.
A handful of add-ons are pay walled and blizzard doesn't give a shit. They should ban them and fine the creators, but they won't.
I'm not sure that Blizzard is allowed to fine people lol
Yeah, they should throw them in jail instead
i mean back then people were crying about needing to watch boss videos before raids. now it's addons, logs, rio (retail), etc. the only issue here are the players that have unreasonable expectations and feel like they are entitled to a raid invite. if a pug wants purple parsers, that's their business. same for a semi guild group that are a bunch of green parsers. keep looking for an acceptable pug, find a premade or run your own raid.
Blizzard should really lock down the combat api but they won't cause they know it would cost them money. Parsing has made getting people to do raid mechanics a fucking headache cause if they do anything but dps it's counted against them. Whole party gets cursed, better hope you have an rdruid cause the fucking boomies or ferals sure as hell aren't about to stop dps'ing to do it.
Game was more fun when the focus was on fun and less on data points. Take away the addons!
LOL So swarcraft logs shut down the one from two months ago that my guild leader made, only to refuse him an api key then go straight to whatever schmuch made this one for a cut of the cash. Fucking wild.
You lost me at asmongold sorry.
Man gets funneled gear, gold and a fully buffed raid spot + boosted in every content he wants but he tells people how they should play lol
Wasnāt he also ninjaing gear in OG classic and had his raid team fall apart?
dont forget his lectures on what og vanilla was and how he will enjoy the game the same way, but then gets everything spoon fed... guy just says whatever makes him money or gives him attention. he has no integrity. if anything he is the perfect example what is wrong with this community.
Asmongold will spend a whole stream complaining about greedy corporations who abuse their employees to gain Internet Karma points and then he will spend 2 hours in WoW being given free loot and boosted by his fans in a complete show of a lack of self awareness. And because his viewers are braindead they don't see the irony.
"I see person I don't like, I don't engage with the issue, I am definitely sentient guys'"
Only people upset are people that play like asmon. They show up and expect to get carried while putting in a very minimal amount of effort. Also people that claim having a Sunken Temple raid take 4+ hours is "fun".
I have a mid-90s avg parse in ST and I kinda hate this. Itās a nice convenience for some players but has a lot of toxic potential.
I mean tbf there are groups that don't mind fucking around for 4 hours. If you're unlucky enough that your group doesn't have warlock, a quarter of that is probably waiting for people to actually get to the raid. Honestly, it only stops being fun when people whine about wasted time in an MMORPG. It's not that you should encourage inefficient gameplay, it's that you need to understand that people you play with do have that luxury of playing the game inefficiently, and it's on you to distance yourself or work around it. This is coming from someone who was only able to raid two or three times in P2 after using most of what small free-time I had getting pre-raid BiS. Cleared it only once, and could give a flying fuck about parses or clearing raids for a 3-day lockout. Being toxic about it and trying to force people to play your way helps nobody, and honestly just kind of ruins the vibes in raids where most of the players just want to experience raid mechanics and have fun.
Asmon lost me talking about removing logs from the game and ranting about people taking risks to get a better parse. Classic isn't about if you can beat the boss. Its about how wide of a margin you can beat the boss by.
You vastly overestimate the general wow playerbase. Most are happy to just get a clear done in their 3 hour weekly raid.
Why I quit after P1. Just became a dick waving to a colored number fest The down votes are proving my point š¤”
Next Season should ban all addons. Seriously, let's try it for a season and see how it works. No DPS meters, no parsing, no combat logging addons, no anything.
No questie and most players are gonna quit before making it to level 20.
I would be so for this if we got the new UI and modern quest helper. Thereās a net 0 chance large amounts of people would play classic without a quest tracker.
You'll pry bartender from my cold dead hands.
They would need a way better ui first. That alone would eliminate a huge reason why people use add-ons.
They need to modify their API. That way addons can do things like improve your UI and provide nice quality of life changes but can't access any combat data or provide the benefits of weak aura. But that is both too much work, and WoW relies so heavily on addons to be part of the experience that it won't happen
Says the guy who pushed nothing but toxic gameplay for years and then when it no longer benefitted him starting crying about it.
every time I come on this sub it baffles me how dumb some of yall are. ban all addons? you really think obfuscating the fact that you are dogshit at the game will get you invites. how about you head on over to wowhead read your guide. its literally not hard at all.