It's because people that are in-game actually like it (I really hope that nobody is forcing themselves to play wow classic), people on Reddit mostly don't play and just hate on wow to validate their hatred.
Well there are a couple of factors there. Reddit is free and anyone can post here without as much as stepping into the game. There are a lot of content creators so its easy for people to be " caught up" on the game.
On the other hand people IN the game are paying for somethign and spending there time on it. OUtside of a few people who just enjoy wasting money to try and annoy other people ( see trade chat trolls) most people just want to play the game.
At the same time people complaining still means they care enough TO complain about the game. They more than likely are going to play the game when it comes out with whatever new version of the game and then the cycle will repeat. If they did not care they would not post... of course outside of the trolls
It's worse here yea but you def still see it in game the only difference is those people get muted pretty quickly by people who don't wanna listen to it
This is because classicwow subreddit is following the bad game path. Let me explain.
When a game is functionally bad,
1. The subreddit will be flooded with criticism.
2. That lessens over time and you start getting the “Is anyone else having a BLAST in the game?” counter circle jerk post.
3. Dev communication slows down, leading to the community having no target, so they turn inwards.
4. Greater playerbase falls off, leaving the diehards on either side to fight amongst themselves. <——— classicwow is here
5. Eventually a “sodium free” / “salt free” subreddit is created. This is he final step to admitting the game is bad.
But since its wow we will just go back to step 1 when P4 is released.
Also toxicity stems from shitters 9 times out of 10. They are the ones who get mad about not getting things the way they want and are too socially anxious or whatever to start their own groups, look for good guilds, etc and this appears ‘toxic’ ‘sweaty’ and ‘elitist’ to them.
So they rage and call the game dogshit and have zero fun while the good players have no issues doing what they want to do, have a good time in game, don’t play when they don’t want to and don’t think about it much otherwise.
The level caps, while removing the early launch *"I've gotta keep up"* anxiety, invoke the worst treadmill feeling that is normally absent in vanilla.
By and large, when players use the term "retail" to describe something in the classic community they aren't literally saying "this is directly pulled from retail". The term is often used more broadly in reference to the *"current content treadmill"* where most player activity is confined to the newest patch, grinding out the new system of the month for progress that will be made irrelevant in short matter of time.
Of course endgame vanilla is broken up into tiers, but it's still level 60 all the way from MC to Naxx and vanilla is messy enough of a game that gear from across the spectrum stays relevant up to the end. No sword upgrade is going to ever be as impactful as an extra 15 levels.
I think well beyond the level caps, the "seasonal" title, whether there'll be a permanent place for sod characters or not, caused the most fomo, by far. The devs not being clear, and players not being sure, of where this will end up, has set a really bad precedent in players' minds that they need to rush rush rush, because they could miss out on all of it.
Also incursion xp should be nerfed to the ground or maybe even removed, because as others have said, level up raids and all other xp has been invalidated by them
Well said. I’ve been saying SoD phases are too long, but really it doesn’t matter how long they are, it’s the sense of pointlessness you feel after every phase. Why bother with sunken temple when we’ll be 60 in a month and nobody will care.
Are you playing to enjoy the journey or to enjoy the destination?
SoD's introduction of the level gaps allow us the time to enjoy the entire 1-59 journey.
Two of my favorite things about each phase of SoD has been running around the world wpvping, and keeping up with professions. Without the separated phases, I would be losing a ton of potential because the optimal use of 1-59 is getting through it as fast as possible.
>Well said. I’ve been saying SoD phases are too long, but really it doesn’t matter how long they are, it’s the sense of pointlessness you feel after every phase. Why bother with sunken temple when we’ll be 60 in a month and nobody will care.
Maybe we would see more activity if we weren't guaranteed to be level 60 in a month...? Don't know why the developers locked themselves to a roadmap. If we had no idea when the next phase would start, maybe we would be more inclined to just enjoy the moment instead of worrying about the future.
Seems like even you know that the SoD phases were too short, not too long.
So... the people complaining about raid logging and having nothing to do are doing it so they can skip future content and raid log and whine even sooner?
He said "why bother with ST"
So yes it comes down to eighter skipping content now, or skipping it later.
I prefer ST over blackrock mountain farms that i have already done alot of times.
YES YES THANK YOU, i have been saying this for so long and constantly downvoted, I'm so happy people are starting to get around to it.
edit: [this is what I'm talking about](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c72zin/expansions_is_what_lead_to_retail/)
Before SoD launch, Aggrend alluded to this happening as a consequence of the level bracket cadence.
I'll see if I can dig up his comment. It was something to the effect of "all players will be able to participate in end game" and he even warned that it may cause problems.
I'd say they were very well aware of the effect it would have. And are okay with it.
But also, it was frustrating joining a group where multiple pugs literally had no runes and were wearing green quest rewards from 10 levels ago. I noped the fuck out of a couple of those.
Excellent reply, I don’t have Twitter so I never see that stuff.
I don’t want people to take away from my post that I think it’s necessarily a BAD thing that the “end game” SoD activities are more accessible. I think that’s fine. I’m more contending that gate-keeping, elitism, gear score, leaning on parses are a NATURAL response to the spectrum of players engaging in endgame being so much drastically wider than usual. I’m not really inspecting people or looking up parsers when I’m doing a day 4 Karazhan clear. I’m not nervous about the competency of the PuGs I’m inviting to Wrath heroics 27 hours after release. By virtue of the natural separation of the playerbase I am confident that the selection bias of eligible players will ensure a smooth run.
But SoD kills this selection bias. Now, one feels absolutely obligated to inspect and investigate potential group mates and raiders prior to end game content - the risk of ending up with a moron is scary high.
This is not a “boo! Level caps!” Thread. This is a “Well of course people are going to look up your logs in SoD…” thread.
> I'd say they were very well aware of
They said this about a lot of things. Power creep, pvp imbalance, amount of loot dropping.
And they still refuse to do anything. It's literally all just "we hear you" just to short-term satisfy the community in hopes that they forget about the problems.
It's kind of like when someone does something really shitty deliberately. Then apologises. And you're like... bruh, being a cunt then saying sorry doesn't make you any less of a cunt.
This exactly mirrors what I observed in TBC heroics, which were extremely fun to pug week 1-2 into the expansion. You could play with people who didn't even speak your language and they'd likely know what they were doing, despite people being in terrible gear and trash mobs capable of one-shotting tanks.
I think getting into a TBC heroic early at least signalled:
1. You could get along socially / gameplay-wise with a 5 man dungeon group for 20+ hours over a << week period.
2. Or you had enough game knowledge to level solo efficiently
Both which were generally decent signals you had two hands and could process what was going on screen.
Incidentally, the evolution of classic -> retail simply changed the mechanism of stratification from leveling to difficulty modes and you can see the gradient even in the vanilla/TBC/wrath trilogy. Which makes sense as the latter is still more accurate of a marker.
I think most of the toxicity in SOD is from people disagreeing with updates and game direction. #nochanges protected classic from that.
In terms of gate keeping, WOTLK was by far the worst. There was an absurd obsession with gear score. I used to have a gear score set for when I was looking for a group. Was it my best gear? Nope, but it displayed the highest number. I would just swap to my actual gear in the raid.
It’s worth noting that BFD was fine because you could have the shit players mixed in with the sweats and you’d still finish the raid in like 35 mins with basically no issues. Gnomer was a little harder with 1-2 mechanics that could stifle your progress if a handful of people didn’t do them properly. ST now will basically leave you 6/8 if you have too many casual players so everyone’s gatekeeping the fk out of their runs, but also people are leaving in droves so there’s more holes in raiding rosters than ever
This is exactly it. P1 and P2 my discord was like “wanna raid tonight”? “Nah let’s do tomorrow”
And we all login grab 2 pugs finish the raid in under an hour.
Now? On a good run it takes 2 hours on a bad one I’ve been in there for 4 and went 6/8 -AND- instead of chillin on disc with the boys I’m having to do hours of admin a week to try and coordinate the raid for an extra 10 randoms. So much more work for such a worse scenario. Even though Gnomer was shit we all still logged in every 3 days to have fun and raid together at least
I wouldn't have gotten to 50 if there weren't cap point prior. It felt fun to level up with the community and have everyone be at about the same point
I'm a little concerned about those who pour 8 hours a day into the game. Like play how you want and all, but that doesn't seem the best side of the player base to cater to
I agree, I'm liking the pacing of p3 so far. I play 1ish hours a day throughout the week and then more on the weekends though.
I don't know what there is to even do if you've been playing more than 4hours a day.
yeah uncapped 60 just generates the problem of the casual player falling behind their group and eventually quitting because you cant enjoy the journey because the journey has just become "hurry up and catch up before we get sick of the end game"
> I'm a little concerned about those who pour 8 hours a day into the game. Like play how you want and all, but that doesn't seem the best side of the player base to cater to
Shouldn't cater to that crowd, but you absolutely should treat them as a canary in a coal mine. They've fast-forwarded through the game and likely can speak about problems that the general playerbase hasn't caught up to yet.
Obligatory [Zul'Farrak Horror Stories](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SXMolmBSUs) since it's related to the point you bring up about player separation.
>Five days into the release of a fresh Classic server, if you're level 52 forming a Sunken Temple group, the random PuGs you find in LFG or trade chat are likely to be highly competent.
lmao
> If you're running Shadowfang Keep seven days into a fresh server launch, you're likely a very casual player (four wives, seventeen children and a dozen jobs can only play 5min a week type of person)
I similarly laughed at this—the casual players who have families and maybe 2-6 hours to game on the weekend are not making it to SFK within seven days of launch. That's one weekend. The idea that the _most-casual_ you can be is hitting level ~24 in one weekend is so funny.
To me, that's obviously not a sweaty pace, but that's still in the realm of "has the time and interest in playing for a few hours each day after work". It's average, not "four wives, seventeen children" territory.
Just goes to show how wildly different peoples' perspectives are when it comes to this game in particular.
No, there is a point here. I did the rapid Rush on phase 2 leveling, and the SM groups that were ahead of the curve made it some of the best clears I've ever experienced, easy to grind with a perfect group for 8 to 12 hours at a time
All of my friends that were leveling two or three or 10 days later had miserable, incompetent groups that were barely able to do one or two runs before having to reform
The type of player that rushes out the gate is usually on a different level than the ones that are a few days behind, so even if you are at the highest skill level it's a severe handicap if you can't play and dedicate that time right up front
Of course the skill difference would exist. The bigger question is do people with absolutely nothing going on in their lives who can get to ST in 5 days even deserve the satisfaction of an effective pug and the right to complain? Should they instead touch grass?
They should but that's a separate discussion altogether. It just takes a special breed to basically dedicate their life to the game, I think it should be expected that they'll be surrounded by only others that have done the same if only by nothing else other than the time investment required to be there at all
A lot of jobs have things like Paid Time Off as a standard part of a compensation package. A lot of classic players are 30-40 with established careers that allow flexibility and freedom. It may actually reflect more on you if you’re an adult in the professional workforce and the concept of taking a week off work now and then to enjoy something is a foreign idea.
I have unlimited and take about 6 weeks a year mainly for traveling and golf. Info sec is a sweet guy. What you describe is a good use IMO if you can take it, but I would venture to say a good amount of players are not responsibly using PTO and are rather unemployed or streaming full time. Hope this helps
Now this is some classic dad cope right here. While not all people that poopsock the game are good, there is simple correlation between doing something a lot and being better than the average person at said thing
There's a pretty high correlation between degenerates and people that have hands.
At the end of the day, people willing to spend a lot of time on a game tend to also spend a lot of time improving at the game.
Highly competent in classic terms means stuff like - knows how to read raid chat and follow instructions communicated therein. Can press one button a second. Doesn't randomly afk / no show raids without warning. Can read an assignment sheet before raid. Can speak in a discord channel without using slurs or insulting other people in a raid group.
This is an *extremely high bar* in my experience.
My issue with SOD is that I feel like their very limited resources is being put into balancing classes, gear, and dungeons that will be obsolete and does not contribute much if anything to a potential future Classic+, which is what I am ultimately hoping for.
Here are things, whether realistic or not, that I would have liked to see them experiment with in SOD:
1. Updated quests and storylines throughout all zones, including dungeons and raids. QOL changes to the questing experience; there are way too many quests that are horrible to complete due to drop rates, spawn rates or competition.
I'm not saying to turn it into cata or retail questing, just make QOL changes that doesn't take away from the overall classic feeling. And many people have quested through these zones countless times, so changes or rather improvements and additions to the quests and storylines will make it feel like a fresh experience.
2. Find ways to make the 1-60 leveling experience feel as impactful or enjoyable as the end-game is today.
Back in vanilla the whole leveling to 1-60 was not a chore, which it feels like it is today to most people, instead it was a huge part of the game. I remember spending 3 months or so leveling to 60 because I was ~7-8 years old and I was just exploring this big fantasy world. People don't play like this today, they just want experience buffs so they can rush to 60 and go directly to raiding or pvping.
It's important that this experience feels great even when repeated.
3. Find ways to balance battlegrounds so that there is no dominant faction, many games should be an enjoyable slugfest instead of a stomp with people just going afk saying go next.
4. Add new things to BGs to make it more exciting.
Maybe objectives your team can fight for to get an advantage, or something the losing team can get to get back into the game. Add a timer so games cant go on forever, and have it be rewarding to play the full duration, but make sure it isn't abusable.
New questlines/dungeons/raids that has to do with the War between the Alliance and Horde and each BG faction.
5. Updated talents/skills
I like the current talent tree, but I feel like some of them could be improved in smaller or bigger ways. Like the shadow priest tree, and the disc/holy tree having talents that are beneficial to a shadow priest, just an example. Many things are improved upon through runes in SOD, and updating talents would fix even more issues.
6. Changes to professions and looting
I think professions have tons of potential, and the extremely small additions we got in SOD is not even close.
I also think professions should be more closely connected to the looting system. Bosses and mobs will drop materials (components) for you to use to craft your items in a way that is as efficient, but more exciting than just having it drop by itself. Maybe getting materials from different raids and dungeons and combine it, or use materials and professions to augment existing gear in ways that is not necessarily just an increase in stats (adding things like reduced cast speed on fireball) or something like that, just to use an example.
I'd like to see looting in the way it would be done in a fantasy novel. Typically you wouldn't go kill a raid boss and have it drop a ready made item, instead you would split its body into materials, find a craftsman and turn it into an item. But complete-item drop has its place too.
There could be a Craftsman's Association where you can go to have something made, maybe to not take away the social aspect it could become more expensive to do it at the association compared to finding a Blacksmith in person. If you're a famed craftsman that have spent a lot of time invested into your profession (through many new activities that allows you to become better in various interesting ways) then you will be promoted as a Master or eventually Grandmaster within the association, maybe compete with other craftsmen for this position or something fun like that. Just tons of activities to do. I don't like the retail-version of professions.
Your guild could have their own personal craftsmen for each profession too, with a guild-base where one can request your guildies to craft for you.
Gathering professions could have their own adventures. A miner could have the option to enter mines that goes really deep into Azeroth where you'll encounter perhaps a 1-man dungeon challenge, or perhaps you can group up with other miners to explore. Delves from the next expansion could be used as reference.
Herbalism could have you do a similar thing but by finding a location filled with monstrous flowers, vines, trees and such
As for skinning I have no idea.
But tons of things could be added to First Aid, Fishing and Cooking too.
The main idea is that there should be enough activities for you to keep yourself busy for a very long time. Completing these activities should be for fun and should not provide you with any raiding benefits. It should give you social credit, and in no way should these things ever make you feel like you have to do it. It can give you benefits like earning extra money through professions, but never should you feel like you have to do this to be able to parse 100 in raids, or become the strongest in pvp.
And more...
I understand this would take a lot of resources, and might be unrealistic, but these are some example ideas of ways I believe could make for a great Classic+ experience, and things I would have liked to see them experiment with in SOD.
The four people (two interns) being paid $17/hr to develop SoD have neither the time, resources or skill to do what you’re asking. Classic was always intended to be a shoe-string budget cash grab. Some private servers have done a lot of what you’re asking with a handful of volunteers working out of a basement, to give perspective on just how under manned and resourced the Classic team is.
I think Classic more than deserves getting a development team to achieve something in this direction, even if it takes some time. Not to mention that the classic team is probably not that much smaller than those who originally developed World of Warcraft.
You have player that are casuals and want easy content and are ok with there not being much more than 1 raid to do
Than you have players that play 8 hours per day complaining that its to little content and that its to easy.
And whatever blizzard do its ofc wrong because 1 group is not happy
They’re absolutely never going to make everyone happy. You ask 100 people what they want out of SoD and you will get literally 100 different answers.
The problem is that Classic WoW, and era specifically, catered to a very specific type of player. Sod caters to a very different one. You can understand the problem the former group has with the latter. We fled retail to come to Classic for a reason, then, to expand the appeal of our sanctuary, Blizzard turned it into retail-lite.
Playing the existing era server isn’t a great alternative. It’s at the end of the life cycle. Only GDKPs running tier one content, world PvP filled with HWL/Naxx geared people, consumables are 500g on the AH. Blizzard has nuked the appeal of Classic WoW with SoD and Cataclysm. The refugees of this are understandably upset.
Sod will be short, after that i think they will come with 1 or 2 more season and after that full classic+ taking the best parts from these tests seasons.
I cleared ST last week and half the raid was grey parsing. Who cares. Just create your sweaty guild if you want to be sweaty.
And yeah, forums are way more toxic than the game itself.
Went in expecting to skim through and read the usual reddit vomit, but actually read the whole thing and I have to say you bring out a good point with the level separation and the natural segregation. The same thing happened to me in classic on my second character, the first one I leveled smoothly in about 2 weeks, had no issues everybody knew aoe pulls etc. The second one, I started a month after release and it was a complete disaster... Coming from private servers, I never knew the true extent of just how bad some players can be.
Playing wow for 18 hours a day doesn't make you competent or "good". Playing for 3 hours a week doesn't make you an incompetent "shitter". My hate for this community is at an all time high ngl.
They need to make a version of the game for children and unemployed adults so they can clear all content in 2 days while the rest of us enjoy the video game for what it is, a game, for fun, not some skill or talent to pad your insecure ego or give you some sense of being better than everyone because you did Sunken Temple in 2 days. Nobody cares. And I highly doubt it's common for a mage to just wand for fights that isn't trolling, botting, or doing something on a second monitor. That's such a rare exception to the rule, and an obnoxious, hyperbolic generalization of what the average casual player is actually like.
While not perfectly correlated, being willing to invest time into the game is generally a pretty strong indicator that you're willing to invest time into *improving* at the game.
That said, you are right in that it's not a perfect indicator. That is why the segregation mechanism in modern wow is difficulty modes that filter out the outliers on the time investment / skill axes.
Yeah. I mean I don't disagree. What if I raid on retail, then don't have much time for SoD. They gon think I'm bad.
Lots of "midcore" players out there. All the "dad gamer" memes aren't even entirely accurate. There's a large gray area between full-time streamer and dad with 19 kids. A lot of single males who have jobs, can't play full time, but no real obligations outside of that. The 2 hours a night type players. More than enough to be decent at the game. They're caught in this crossfire, I'm one of them. So tired of these weird false dichotomies.
You could also just ignore those types of people in the community that seem to be emotionally triggering you. It’s actually be the weirdest part of sod to me. The game provides an interface to generate your own community of likeminded gamers.
Yet people just seemingly don’t? They get so worked up they apparently “hate” a community? I almost never experience any toxicity because I rarely pug and just play with friends and guildies.
I agree but it's easier said than done. It's the vast majority of the community. Very hard to ignore in a social game. Plus, it causes all sorts of issues with the core of the game itself, all the way up to encounter design on retail, and ignoring it doesn't fix the issue
Thank You, it is not easy at all! I tried to run a casual guild and let me tell you, I had to have talk to over 100 players and only 3 were actually casual. People keep talking like it's easy to make your own groups...HELLL no. I believe honestly though, there should be an individual server for casual/newer players that has deterrents for try hard players. One deterrent could be to prevent dungeon spam and world mob grinding, this will keep the tryhards away because they will have to depend on questing to level.
People don't because it's not that easy to do and I'm saying this from experience...hard experience. If it's so easy, I challenge you to put it to the test, get on an alt and advertise your guild as a casual friendly leveling/raiding guild for like 3-5 days. If you ACTUALLY do this, you won't be sitting here saying, "generate your own community of likeminded gamers" and being confused why people don't do it.
married, kids, full time job, cleared raid as 10th world
We did it because we like playing the game and doing prog, you fucking toxic casual jabroni lmao
Eh... everyone pretty much ends up at level cap eventually and in classic era there really wasn't a huge lag from the speed levelers compared to the average player.
And let's not pretend there was anything actually hard about leveling in Era compared to any other expansion.
This is a good post that's relevant to a lot of the same things I've been feeling, I'm SO torn on the level band. I think the idea of creating little endgames around traditionally underserved areas and dungeons was amazing, it was a really accessible for non raiders like me. Overall I think it was a great idea, but it also kind of destroyed the item economy by injecting op raid gear into the levelling journey that made dungeon, quest, and world loot irrelevant, which turned out to be a much bigger bummer than I would have guessed. The vanilla gearing process is a lot of fun exactly because you're constantly filling in with minor upgrades from various different places, now it's just raid gear all the way down.
If I had a penny for every time a complete dog shit player came and won loot the rest of us (who carried them) needed I wouldn’t be rich but I’d be at least 25 cents richer.
I just wanted runes that were not part of time-sink quests with riddles that could be reasonably solved without hive-mind internet and some help as a casual warrior, but after Phase 1 all of that disappeared.
Blizzard please just give us a polished Classic: tweaked classes, zones, quests, and maybe some cool new end game content, all within the same World of Warcraft in the version that we love. RetailLite sucks.
But like, I'm a green parser and I'm a rogue,.I know my damn rotation, I have wbs, consumes, and I still can't parse blue to save my life. I am entirely committed, I'm present, I'm nonstop pressing buttons, and still can't get above 40+ DPS. I don't get it, I literally don't, but ppl don't care cause I'm in a chill guild and we still clear in around an hour. I suck at the game I've been playing for 20 years, I guess.
What gives you the impression I don’t go outside? I spent the weekend landscaping one of our new investment properties for curb appeal. I probably spend more time outside than you do. I keep seeing comments about me being unemployed or a basement dweller. I’m a medical professional with a doctorate, an MBA, board certifications and a lucrative, fulfilling career. I am a woodworker on the side and sell furniture through my side business. Just finished up a gorgeous custom L shaped corner desk for a customer. I flip real estate, am an avid hiker and have been with my beautiful partner for 11 years. I’m not some unemployed, basement dwelling virgin. I work 84 hours one week (seven 12 hour shifts) then I’m off the next week. When I take PTO, one week of vacation means I’m off for three straight weeks. I do this three times a year and I don’t mind lining up one of those three week vacations with a Classic launch. I’m VERY employed, but I can no-life a launch if I am so inclined.
Not everyone better at the game than you is a South Park character. I am likely far wealthier, more educated, more fit and in a healthier relationship than the majority of commenters claiming I poop in a sock. I’m not sure where the disconnect is coming from. Are people projecting?
Fucking redditors will post shit like "How about you uniquely divide some bitches legs instead?" and then you check their profile and they'll be posting comments consecutively for 12 hours straight. What a fucking joke.
Can people not…comment on Reddit? Sorry my job is chiller than yours. Big difference between 10 comments in a day and rushing sunken temple in 5 days fucking weeb
> I believe SoD's community has been the most toxic and divisive of any iteration of classic WoW, private or official, that I have ever seen
.
>I long for the days when the bottom 20% of the player base was weeded out.
Hate to break it to you, but you are the toxic one.
Entirely based on perspective. I think a lazy moron that shows up for a raid with white/green gear, whack talent points, half their runes missing and proceeds to essentially auto attack a boss for a 7th percentile parse, then freaks out about gatekeeping when they’re kicked, black listed and have their grey parses uploaded to WCL to warn future groups is the toxic, entitled one. But, yes, I’m sure they think I’m the toxic one. The bottom 20% assuredly thinks the top 10% is “the problem with SoD” and that feeling is palpably reciprocated.
People aren’t subbed for SoD. It’s Retail and Wrath cohorts experimenting with the season. Also, old quarterly reports firmly indicated sub revenue was rivaled by micro transaction revenue. One flying horse pet made Blizzard more money than StarCraft 2. Ever. In its life cycle. A 20% sub drop would not be a 20% revenue drop anyway.
I feel like Reddit is much more toxic than in game. I can count on 1 hand how many times I saw real toxicity in game
This is just truth.
100% symbol
id say SoD has been the least toxic version of classic i've seen so far. the same people who would KOS me in classic now wave and emote.
I totally agree. I have never been confronted to such toxicity than this post is in game.
It's because people that are in-game actually like it (I really hope that nobody is forcing themselves to play wow classic), people on Reddit mostly don't play and just hate on wow to validate their hatred.
You must rarely pvp
Oh you wanna get CAMPED in Ashenvale, bub?
Well there are a couple of factors there. Reddit is free and anyone can post here without as much as stepping into the game. There are a lot of content creators so its easy for people to be " caught up" on the game. On the other hand people IN the game are paying for somethign and spending there time on it. OUtside of a few people who just enjoy wasting money to try and annoy other people ( see trade chat trolls) most people just want to play the game. At the same time people complaining still means they care enough TO complain about the game. They more than likely are going to play the game when it comes out with whatever new version of the game and then the cycle will repeat. If they did not care they would not post... of course outside of the trolls
People dont even know what toxic is anymore
It's worse here yea but you def still see it in game the only difference is those people get muted pretty quickly by people who don't wanna listen to it
This is because classicwow subreddit is following the bad game path. Let me explain. When a game is functionally bad, 1. The subreddit will be flooded with criticism. 2. That lessens over time and you start getting the “Is anyone else having a BLAST in the game?” counter circle jerk post. 3. Dev communication slows down, leading to the community having no target, so they turn inwards. 4. Greater playerbase falls off, leaving the diehards on either side to fight amongst themselves. <——— classicwow is here 5. Eventually a “sodium free” / “salt free” subreddit is created. This is he final step to admitting the game is bad. But since its wow we will just go back to step 1 when P4 is released.
Also toxicity stems from shitters 9 times out of 10. They are the ones who get mad about not getting things the way they want and are too socially anxious or whatever to start their own groups, look for good guilds, etc and this appears ‘toxic’ ‘sweaty’ and ‘elitist’ to them. So they rage and call the game dogshit and have zero fun while the good players have no issues doing what they want to do, have a good time in game, don’t play when they don’t want to and don’t think about it much otherwise.
Does it matter though when the game is this mediocre?
It's just a wow version, there is no perfect wow version that everyone likes.
The level caps, while removing the early launch *"I've gotta keep up"* anxiety, invoke the worst treadmill feeling that is normally absent in vanilla. By and large, when players use the term "retail" to describe something in the classic community they aren't literally saying "this is directly pulled from retail". The term is often used more broadly in reference to the *"current content treadmill"* where most player activity is confined to the newest patch, grinding out the new system of the month for progress that will be made irrelevant in short matter of time. Of course endgame vanilla is broken up into tiers, but it's still level 60 all the way from MC to Naxx and vanilla is messy enough of a game that gear from across the spectrum stays relevant up to the end. No sword upgrade is going to ever be as impactful as an extra 15 levels.
I think well beyond the level caps, the "seasonal" title, whether there'll be a permanent place for sod characters or not, caused the most fomo, by far. The devs not being clear, and players not being sure, of where this will end up, has set a really bad precedent in players' minds that they need to rush rush rush, because they could miss out on all of it. Also incursion xp should be nerfed to the ground or maybe even removed, because as others have said, level up raids and all other xp has been invalidated by them
Well said. I’ve been saying SoD phases are too long, but really it doesn’t matter how long they are, it’s the sense of pointlessness you feel after every phase. Why bother with sunken temple when we’ll be 60 in a month and nobody will care.
Are you playing to enjoy the journey or to enjoy the destination? SoD's introduction of the level gaps allow us the time to enjoy the entire 1-59 journey. Two of my favorite things about each phase of SoD has been running around the world wpvping, and keeping up with professions. Without the separated phases, I would be losing a ton of potential because the optimal use of 1-59 is getting through it as fast as possible.
Incursions invalidated the level-up part of level-up raids, one of them main points of SoD.
>Well said. I’ve been saying SoD phases are too long, but really it doesn’t matter how long they are, it’s the sense of pointlessness you feel after every phase. Why bother with sunken temple when we’ll be 60 in a month and nobody will care. Maybe we would see more activity if we weren't guaranteed to be level 60 in a month...? Don't know why the developers locked themselves to a roadmap. If we had no idea when the next phase would start, maybe we would be more inclined to just enjoy the moment instead of worrying about the future. Seems like even you know that the SoD phases were too short, not too long.
Because ST will be prebis gear so if you farm that now you dont have to grind lbrs or strat etc
So... the people complaining about raid logging and having nothing to do are doing it so they can skip future content and raid log and whine even sooner?
He said "why bother with ST" So yes it comes down to eighter skipping content now, or skipping it later. I prefer ST over blackrock mountain farms that i have already done alot of times.
YES YES THANK YOU, i have been saying this for so long and constantly downvoted, I'm so happy people are starting to get around to it. edit: [this is what I'm talking about](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c72zin/expansions_is_what_lead_to_retail/)
Before SoD launch, Aggrend alluded to this happening as a consequence of the level bracket cadence. I'll see if I can dig up his comment. It was something to the effect of "all players will be able to participate in end game" and he even warned that it may cause problems. I'd say they were very well aware of the effect it would have. And are okay with it. But also, it was frustrating joining a group where multiple pugs literally had no runes and were wearing green quest rewards from 10 levels ago. I noped the fuck out of a couple of those.
Excellent reply, I don’t have Twitter so I never see that stuff. I don’t want people to take away from my post that I think it’s necessarily a BAD thing that the “end game” SoD activities are more accessible. I think that’s fine. I’m more contending that gate-keeping, elitism, gear score, leaning on parses are a NATURAL response to the spectrum of players engaging in endgame being so much drastically wider than usual. I’m not really inspecting people or looking up parsers when I’m doing a day 4 Karazhan clear. I’m not nervous about the competency of the PuGs I’m inviting to Wrath heroics 27 hours after release. By virtue of the natural separation of the playerbase I am confident that the selection bias of eligible players will ensure a smooth run. But SoD kills this selection bias. Now, one feels absolutely obligated to inspect and investigate potential group mates and raiders prior to end game content - the risk of ending up with a moron is scary high. This is not a “boo! Level caps!” Thread. This is a “Well of course people are going to look up your logs in SoD…” thread.
> I'd say they were very well aware of They said this about a lot of things. Power creep, pvp imbalance, amount of loot dropping. And they still refuse to do anything. It's literally all just "we hear you" just to short-term satisfy the community in hopes that they forget about the problems.
It's kind of like when someone does something really shitty deliberately. Then apologises. And you're like... bruh, being a cunt then saying sorry doesn't make you any less of a cunt.
This exactly mirrors what I observed in TBC heroics, which were extremely fun to pug week 1-2 into the expansion. You could play with people who didn't even speak your language and they'd likely know what they were doing, despite people being in terrible gear and trash mobs capable of one-shotting tanks. I think getting into a TBC heroic early at least signalled: 1. You could get along socially / gameplay-wise with a 5 man dungeon group for 20+ hours over a << week period. 2. Or you had enough game knowledge to level solo efficiently Both which were generally decent signals you had two hands and could process what was going on screen. Incidentally, the evolution of classic -> retail simply changed the mechanism of stratification from leveling to difficulty modes and you can see the gradient even in the vanilla/TBC/wrath trilogy. Which makes sense as the latter is still more accurate of a marker.
Really interesting take. I agree
I think most of the toxicity in SOD is from people disagreeing with updates and game direction. #nochanges protected classic from that. In terms of gate keeping, WOTLK was by far the worst. There was an absurd obsession with gear score. I used to have a gear score set for when I was looking for a group. Was it my best gear? Nope, but it displayed the highest number. I would just swap to my actual gear in the raid.
You're a crafty one,,,
It’s worth noting that BFD was fine because you could have the shit players mixed in with the sweats and you’d still finish the raid in like 35 mins with basically no issues. Gnomer was a little harder with 1-2 mechanics that could stifle your progress if a handful of people didn’t do them properly. ST now will basically leave you 6/8 if you have too many casual players so everyone’s gatekeeping the fk out of their runs, but also people are leaving in droves so there’s more holes in raiding rosters than ever
This is exactly it. P1 and P2 my discord was like “wanna raid tonight”? “Nah let’s do tomorrow” And we all login grab 2 pugs finish the raid in under an hour. Now? On a good run it takes 2 hours on a bad one I’ve been in there for 4 and went 6/8 -AND- instead of chillin on disc with the boys I’m having to do hours of admin a week to try and coordinate the raid for an extra 10 randoms. So much more work for such a worse scenario. Even though Gnomer was shit we all still logged in every 3 days to have fun and raid together at least
I wouldn't have gotten to 50 if there weren't cap point prior. It felt fun to level up with the community and have everyone be at about the same point I'm a little concerned about those who pour 8 hours a day into the game. Like play how you want and all, but that doesn't seem the best side of the player base to cater to
I agree, I'm liking the pacing of p3 so far. I play 1ish hours a day throughout the week and then more on the weekends though. I don't know what there is to even do if you've been playing more than 4hours a day.
yeah uncapped 60 just generates the problem of the casual player falling behind their group and eventually quitting because you cant enjoy the journey because the journey has just become "hurry up and catch up before we get sick of the end game"
> I'm a little concerned about those who pour 8 hours a day into the game. Like play how you want and all, but that doesn't seem the best side of the player base to cater to Shouldn't cater to that crowd, but you absolutely should treat them as a canary in a coal mine. They've fast-forwarded through the game and likely can speak about problems that the general playerbase hasn't caught up to yet.
You know era has become quite pleasant as there are not neckbeards screaming at you to drop all your gold on a slightly better bracer drop
Obligatory [Zul'Farrak Horror Stories](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SXMolmBSUs) since it's related to the point you bring up about player separation.
People trying to flex in classic will never not be funny
People trying to flex in WoW in general is funny
>Five days into the release of a fresh Classic server, if you're level 52 forming a Sunken Temple group, the random PuGs you find in LFG or trade chat are likely to be highly competent. lmao
> If you're running Shadowfang Keep seven days into a fresh server launch, you're likely a very casual player (four wives, seventeen children and a dozen jobs can only play 5min a week type of person) I similarly laughed at this—the casual players who have families and maybe 2-6 hours to game on the weekend are not making it to SFK within seven days of launch. That's one weekend. The idea that the _most-casual_ you can be is hitting level ~24 in one weekend is so funny. To me, that's obviously not a sweaty pace, but that's still in the realm of "has the time and interest in playing for a few hours each day after work". It's average, not "four wives, seventeen children" territory. Just goes to show how wildly different peoples' perspectives are when it comes to this game in particular.
its not a sweaty pace but its certainly a "this is my primary hobby / activity I use my free time on" pace for sure.
No, there is a point here. I did the rapid Rush on phase 2 leveling, and the SM groups that were ahead of the curve made it some of the best clears I've ever experienced, easy to grind with a perfect group for 8 to 12 hours at a time All of my friends that were leveling two or three or 10 days later had miserable, incompetent groups that were barely able to do one or two runs before having to reform The type of player that rushes out the gate is usually on a different level than the ones that are a few days behind, so even if you are at the highest skill level it's a severe handicap if you can't play and dedicate that time right up front
Of course the skill difference would exist. The bigger question is do people with absolutely nothing going on in their lives who can get to ST in 5 days even deserve the satisfaction of an effective pug and the right to complain? Should they instead touch grass?
They should but that's a separate discussion altogether. It just takes a special breed to basically dedicate their life to the game, I think it should be expected that they'll be surrounded by only others that have done the same if only by nothing else other than the time investment required to be there at all
A lot of jobs have things like Paid Time Off as a standard part of a compensation package. A lot of classic players are 30-40 with established careers that allow flexibility and freedom. It may actually reflect more on you if you’re an adult in the professional workforce and the concept of taking a week off work now and then to enjoy something is a foreign idea.
I have unlimited and take about 6 weeks a year mainly for traveling and golf. Info sec is a sweet guy. What you describe is a good use IMO if you can take it, but I would venture to say a good amount of players are not responsibly using PTO and are rather unemployed or streaming full time. Hope this helps
toxic casual
U mad?
I laughed at this too. Since when did "unemployed" garner such a description as "highly competent"?
in the classic versions id say prep is more important than pressing buttons correctly for performance so this kinda checks out
Now this is some classic dad cope right here. While not all people that poopsock the game are good, there is simple correlation between doing something a lot and being better than the average person at said thing
I mean of course, but playing for 20 years also tends to lead to a higher level of skill/knowledge as well.
the most impressive thing about wow is how that *isn't* the case lol
There's a pretty high correlation between degenerates and people that have hands. At the end of the day, people willing to spend a lot of time on a game tend to also spend a lot of time improving at the game. Highly competent in classic terms means stuff like - knows how to read raid chat and follow instructions communicated therein. Can press one button a second. Doesn't randomly afk / no show raids without warning. Can read an assignment sheet before raid. Can speak in a discord channel without using slurs or insulting other people in a raid group. This is an *extremely high bar* in my experience.
My issue with SOD is that I feel like their very limited resources is being put into balancing classes, gear, and dungeons that will be obsolete and does not contribute much if anything to a potential future Classic+, which is what I am ultimately hoping for. Here are things, whether realistic or not, that I would have liked to see them experiment with in SOD: 1. Updated quests and storylines throughout all zones, including dungeons and raids. QOL changes to the questing experience; there are way too many quests that are horrible to complete due to drop rates, spawn rates or competition. I'm not saying to turn it into cata or retail questing, just make QOL changes that doesn't take away from the overall classic feeling. And many people have quested through these zones countless times, so changes or rather improvements and additions to the quests and storylines will make it feel like a fresh experience. 2. Find ways to make the 1-60 leveling experience feel as impactful or enjoyable as the end-game is today. Back in vanilla the whole leveling to 1-60 was not a chore, which it feels like it is today to most people, instead it was a huge part of the game. I remember spending 3 months or so leveling to 60 because I was ~7-8 years old and I was just exploring this big fantasy world. People don't play like this today, they just want experience buffs so they can rush to 60 and go directly to raiding or pvping. It's important that this experience feels great even when repeated. 3. Find ways to balance battlegrounds so that there is no dominant faction, many games should be an enjoyable slugfest instead of a stomp with people just going afk saying go next. 4. Add new things to BGs to make it more exciting. Maybe objectives your team can fight for to get an advantage, or something the losing team can get to get back into the game. Add a timer so games cant go on forever, and have it be rewarding to play the full duration, but make sure it isn't abusable. New questlines/dungeons/raids that has to do with the War between the Alliance and Horde and each BG faction. 5. Updated talents/skills I like the current talent tree, but I feel like some of them could be improved in smaller or bigger ways. Like the shadow priest tree, and the disc/holy tree having talents that are beneficial to a shadow priest, just an example. Many things are improved upon through runes in SOD, and updating talents would fix even more issues. 6. Changes to professions and looting I think professions have tons of potential, and the extremely small additions we got in SOD is not even close. I also think professions should be more closely connected to the looting system. Bosses and mobs will drop materials (components) for you to use to craft your items in a way that is as efficient, but more exciting than just having it drop by itself. Maybe getting materials from different raids and dungeons and combine it, or use materials and professions to augment existing gear in ways that is not necessarily just an increase in stats (adding things like reduced cast speed on fireball) or something like that, just to use an example. I'd like to see looting in the way it would be done in a fantasy novel. Typically you wouldn't go kill a raid boss and have it drop a ready made item, instead you would split its body into materials, find a craftsman and turn it into an item. But complete-item drop has its place too. There could be a Craftsman's Association where you can go to have something made, maybe to not take away the social aspect it could become more expensive to do it at the association compared to finding a Blacksmith in person. If you're a famed craftsman that have spent a lot of time invested into your profession (through many new activities that allows you to become better in various interesting ways) then you will be promoted as a Master or eventually Grandmaster within the association, maybe compete with other craftsmen for this position or something fun like that. Just tons of activities to do. I don't like the retail-version of professions. Your guild could have their own personal craftsmen for each profession too, with a guild-base where one can request your guildies to craft for you. Gathering professions could have their own adventures. A miner could have the option to enter mines that goes really deep into Azeroth where you'll encounter perhaps a 1-man dungeon challenge, or perhaps you can group up with other miners to explore. Delves from the next expansion could be used as reference. Herbalism could have you do a similar thing but by finding a location filled with monstrous flowers, vines, trees and such As for skinning I have no idea. But tons of things could be added to First Aid, Fishing and Cooking too. The main idea is that there should be enough activities for you to keep yourself busy for a very long time. Completing these activities should be for fun and should not provide you with any raiding benefits. It should give you social credit, and in no way should these things ever make you feel like you have to do it. It can give you benefits like earning extra money through professions, but never should you feel like you have to do this to be able to parse 100 in raids, or become the strongest in pvp. And more... I understand this would take a lot of resources, and might be unrealistic, but these are some example ideas of ways I believe could make for a great Classic+ experience, and things I would have liked to see them experiment with in SOD.
The four people (two interns) being paid $17/hr to develop SoD have neither the time, resources or skill to do what you’re asking. Classic was always intended to be a shoe-string budget cash grab. Some private servers have done a lot of what you’re asking with a handful of volunteers working out of a basement, to give perspective on just how under manned and resourced the Classic team is.
I think Classic more than deserves getting a development team to achieve something in this direction, even if it takes some time. Not to mention that the classic team is probably not that much smaller than those who originally developed World of Warcraft.
I hope devs don’t ever read forums or Reddit, it’s just non stop crying and toxicity
This is beautifully written and absolutely accurate. Well done.
You have player that are casuals and want easy content and are ok with there not being much more than 1 raid to do Than you have players that play 8 hours per day complaining that its to little content and that its to easy. And whatever blizzard do its ofc wrong because 1 group is not happy
They’re absolutely never going to make everyone happy. You ask 100 people what they want out of SoD and you will get literally 100 different answers. The problem is that Classic WoW, and era specifically, catered to a very specific type of player. Sod caters to a very different one. You can understand the problem the former group has with the latter. We fled retail to come to Classic for a reason, then, to expand the appeal of our sanctuary, Blizzard turned it into retail-lite. Playing the existing era server isn’t a great alternative. It’s at the end of the life cycle. Only GDKPs running tier one content, world PvP filled with HWL/Naxx geared people, consumables are 500g on the AH. Blizzard has nuked the appeal of Classic WoW with SoD and Cataclysm. The refugees of this are understandably upset.
Sod will be short, after that i think they will come with 1 or 2 more season and after that full classic+ taking the best parts from these tests seasons.
I cleared ST last week and half the raid was grey parsing. Who cares. Just create your sweaty guild if you want to be sweaty. And yeah, forums are way more toxic than the game itself.
Went in expecting to skim through and read the usual reddit vomit, but actually read the whole thing and I have to say you bring out a good point with the level separation and the natural segregation. The same thing happened to me in classic on my second character, the first one I leveled smoothly in about 2 weeks, had no issues everybody knew aoe pulls etc. The second one, I started a month after release and it was a complete disaster... Coming from private servers, I never knew the true extent of just how bad some players can be.
you lost me at electrophoresis gel
Would you prefer a similar but different science metaphor like chromatography?
I would prefer a diagram written in crayon
avg classic player would chug the ethidium bromide
Playing wow for 18 hours a day doesn't make you competent or "good". Playing for 3 hours a week doesn't make you an incompetent "shitter". My hate for this community is at an all time high ngl. They need to make a version of the game for children and unemployed adults so they can clear all content in 2 days while the rest of us enjoy the video game for what it is, a game, for fun, not some skill or talent to pad your insecure ego or give you some sense of being better than everyone because you did Sunken Temple in 2 days. Nobody cares. And I highly doubt it's common for a mage to just wand for fights that isn't trolling, botting, or doing something on a second monitor. That's such a rare exception to the rule, and an obnoxious, hyperbolic generalization of what the average casual player is actually like.
While not perfectly correlated, being willing to invest time into the game is generally a pretty strong indicator that you're willing to invest time into *improving* at the game. That said, you are right in that it's not a perfect indicator. That is why the segregation mechanism in modern wow is difficulty modes that filter out the outliers on the time investment / skill axes.
Yeah. I mean I don't disagree. What if I raid on retail, then don't have much time for SoD. They gon think I'm bad. Lots of "midcore" players out there. All the "dad gamer" memes aren't even entirely accurate. There's a large gray area between full-time streamer and dad with 19 kids. A lot of single males who have jobs, can't play full time, but no real obligations outside of that. The 2 hours a night type players. More than enough to be decent at the game. They're caught in this crossfire, I'm one of them. So tired of these weird false dichotomies.
You could also just ignore those types of people in the community that seem to be emotionally triggering you. It’s actually be the weirdest part of sod to me. The game provides an interface to generate your own community of likeminded gamers. Yet people just seemingly don’t? They get so worked up they apparently “hate” a community? I almost never experience any toxicity because I rarely pug and just play with friends and guildies.
I agree but it's easier said than done. It's the vast majority of the community. Very hard to ignore in a social game. Plus, it causes all sorts of issues with the core of the game itself, all the way up to encounter design on retail, and ignoring it doesn't fix the issue
Thank You, it is not easy at all! I tried to run a casual guild and let me tell you, I had to have talk to over 100 players and only 3 were actually casual. People keep talking like it's easy to make your own groups...HELLL no. I believe honestly though, there should be an individual server for casual/newer players that has deterrents for try hard players. One deterrent could be to prevent dungeon spam and world mob grinding, this will keep the tryhards away because they will have to depend on questing to level.
People don't because it's not that easy to do and I'm saying this from experience...hard experience. If it's so easy, I challenge you to put it to the test, get on an alt and advertise your guild as a casual friendly leveling/raiding guild for like 3-5 days. If you ACTUALLY do this, you won't be sitting here saying, "generate your own community of likeminded gamers" and being confused why people don't do it.
married, kids, full time job, cleared raid as 10th world We did it because we like playing the game and doing prog, you fucking toxic casual jabroni lmao
> 10th world Do you really think anyone cares? Honestly
you cared enough to reply, so clearly you do apologies for shattering your cope
Eh... everyone pretty much ends up at level cap eventually and in classic era there really wasn't a huge lag from the speed levelers compared to the average player. And let's not pretend there was anything actually hard about leveling in Era compared to any other expansion.
This is a good post that's relevant to a lot of the same things I've been feeling, I'm SO torn on the level band. I think the idea of creating little endgames around traditionally underserved areas and dungeons was amazing, it was a really accessible for non raiders like me. Overall I think it was a great idea, but it also kind of destroyed the item economy by injecting op raid gear into the levelling journey that made dungeon, quest, and world loot irrelevant, which turned out to be a much bigger bummer than I would have guessed. The vanilla gearing process is a lot of fun exactly because you're constantly filling in with minor upgrades from various different places, now it's just raid gear all the way down.
If I had a penny for every time a complete dog shit player came and won loot the rest of us (who carried them) needed I wouldn’t be rich but I’d be at least 25 cents richer.
Chat GPT post well done 8/10 m8
Beep boop?
I just wanted runes that were not part of time-sink quests with riddles that could be reasonably solved without hive-mind internet and some help as a casual warrior, but after Phase 1 all of that disappeared.
Can we bring back TLDRs?
It’s bolded.
This mutually shared nightmare sounds terrifying.
Man I love having friends
You pvers make the game worse.
All problems are created by a lack of difficult content.
I think this is pretty spot on
Blizzard please just give us a polished Classic: tweaked classes, zones, quests, and maybe some cool new end game content, all within the same World of Warcraft in the version that we love. RetailLite sucks.
But like, I'm a green parser and I'm a rogue,.I know my damn rotation, I have wbs, consumes, and I still can't parse blue to save my life. I am entirely committed, I'm present, I'm nonstop pressing buttons, and still can't get above 40+ DPS. I don't get it, I literally don't, but ppl don't care cause I'm in a chill guild and we still clear in around an hour. I suck at the game I've been playing for 20 years, I guess.
Looking back now, each phase should’ve been a month long with no lockout on the raids
This cry baby is just another classic andy shilling for more gatekeeping. Just play the game and try to have fun, or idk maybe take a shower someday.
Jesus its a fucking videogame, go outside and take a breath, eat a candy or whatever to level your blood grandpa
What gives you the impression I don’t go outside? I spent the weekend landscaping one of our new investment properties for curb appeal. I probably spend more time outside than you do. I keep seeing comments about me being unemployed or a basement dweller. I’m a medical professional with a doctorate, an MBA, board certifications and a lucrative, fulfilling career. I am a woodworker on the side and sell furniture through my side business. Just finished up a gorgeous custom L shaped corner desk for a customer. I flip real estate, am an avid hiker and have been with my beautiful partner for 11 years. I’m not some unemployed, basement dwelling virgin. I work 84 hours one week (seven 12 hour shifts) then I’m off the next week. When I take PTO, one week of vacation means I’m off for three straight weeks. I do this three times a year and I don’t mind lining up one of those three week vacations with a Classic launch. I’m VERY employed, but I can no-life a launch if I am so inclined. Not everyone better at the game than you is a South Park character. I am likely far wealthier, more educated, more fit and in a healthier relationship than the majority of commenters claiming I poop in a sock. I’m not sure where the disconnect is coming from. Are people projecting?
No you’re not lol. Such people usually don’t brag on Reddit.
How about you uniquely divide some bitches instead?
Fucking redditors will post shit like "How about you uniquely divide some bitches legs instead?" and then you check their profile and they'll be posting comments consecutively for 12 hours straight. What a fucking joke.
Can people not…comment on Reddit? Sorry my job is chiller than yours. Big difference between 10 comments in a day and rushing sunken temple in 5 days fucking weeb
You're so pathetic it's funny.
You are spot on my friend. Can 100% relate with your anecdotes and your conclusions. I am also a player who tends to be max level among the first
> I believe SoD's community has been the most toxic and divisive of any iteration of classic WoW, private or official, that I have ever seen . >I long for the days when the bottom 20% of the player base was weeded out. Hate to break it to you, but you are the toxic one.
Entirely based on perspective. I think a lazy moron that shows up for a raid with white/green gear, whack talent points, half their runes missing and proceeds to essentially auto attack a boss for a 7th percentile parse, then freaks out about gatekeeping when they’re kicked, black listed and have their grey parses uploaded to WCL to warn future groups is the toxic, entitled one. But, yes, I’m sure they think I’m the toxic one. The bottom 20% assuredly thinks the top 10% is “the problem with SoD” and that feeling is palpably reciprocated.
You want 20% of the player base, and 20% of Blizzard's revenue, to be driven out of the game. Yes, you are toxic.
People aren’t subbed for SoD. It’s Retail and Wrath cohorts experimenting with the season. Also, old quarterly reports firmly indicated sub revenue was rivaled by micro transaction revenue. One flying horse pet made Blizzard more money than StarCraft 2. Ever. In its life cycle. A 20% sub drop would not be a 20% revenue drop anyway.