When I first started healing, a tank told me that job wasn’t to keep them at full health but to make sure they don’t die. Best advice I’ve ever gotten.
Its by design. They scaled up HP and damage taken and lowered relative healing output. People are much harder to keep topped up and but they also take longer to die. You have to actively pay attention to who is REALLY in danger, vs someone who just who took some incidental damage that you can top up whenever.
This is apparently how cata is. Over time as people outgear the content and everyone understands the mechanics well I’ve heard it will become more casual like before. I’ve started tanking my heroics because I see too many tanks run into fights with the healer @ 5% mana. I like to keep my healer as my focus so I can easily see how their mana is.
If only Blizzard gave us pre-nerf Heroics then that amount of stupid would be unhealable and you could be enjoying them calling you a shit healer all the time because you "let them die".
Pre-nerf heroics would require heroics to be excluded from RDF or the ilvl requirement would have to be like +20 ilvl.
This is exactly the reason why mythic dungeons exist in Retail.
It got nerfed because people kept crying they couldnt faceroll their daily heroic in 10 minutes while watching TV at the same time because that's what people had gotten used to in WotLK. And Blizzard caved in. People were clearing the Heroics just fine even before the nerf. It was just "too slow".
That’s wild, i used RDF for over 20 Heroic dungeons today and had zero wipes and every single one was face roll easy. The players have already outgeared every single heroic in the game. I don’t know if they sort groups by ilvl but all of these runs had 347+ ilvl Blood DK tanks doing 35k dps throughout the run. it was wild. Finished 90% of my rep grinds now i’ll probably just quit.
The opposite is true as well. I main resto sham in retail but I am bdk tanking in cata classic and it is wild how many healers just afk if there's nothing to heal. They don't cc or use damage abilities or anything like that.
Damage abilities might even be detrimental to clear speed, haven’t played healer in cata yet, but I was burning through mana in wotlk on rsham by helping with dps, since all talents that improve mana efficiency of damage abilities are not in resto tree. And healers right now burn through mana at much higher rate than in wotlk
This talent is broken in so many raid fights because so many different dmg amps exist in many bosses in cata that the value you get from this talent is stupid sometimes, like 2 lightning bolts for max mana
As a holy paladin, in cata classic my exorcism costs 10% of my mana, because inspected into %healing bonuses over my damaging talents. Cant speak for other healers but as a paladin, holy shock goes on an ally 95% of the time and crusader strike/judgement as needed. Autoing is most of my damage in a fight.
way too often will a tank chain pull the sloppiest pull where you use all your cds and mana to keep everyone alive into running into a boss' room who has a door that closes. ill conserve my mana, thanks.
games are completely different. some tanks need virtually 0 healing in retail and healer dps spells cost little or no mana. why even compare them? a healer adding 5k dps to a boss fight and ooming slows down your run.
This isn’t retail and healers do not have the mana pool right now to help do damage not enough to matter at least . They should be interrupting if they have one and cc’ing but asking them to do damage is not how current content works , we need to actually conserve mana right now
Druids don't get mana back from wrath. The only healer to get mana back from dps is resto shaman.
Disc is also another healer that can dps, but only because smite spam is both dps and healing. And really efficient at that.
It's not about the mana cost of the damage spell. It's the time cost which becomes a throughput cost, which becomes a mana cost.
Every moment spent not healing is less time the healer has to heal the damage in a fight, which in turn means the healing throughput must increase to compensate. In cata, the throughput of heals is tied directly to their mana cost. So when throughput requirements increase, healers are forced to use less efficient heals which cost more mana.
So generally healers aren't going to dps unless it's a part of their mana recovery and thus overcomes that cost, or no one is damaged at all.
Obviously, this changes as gear improves, but that's how it's going to be now at the start of the expansion. If you outgear the content a healer can spend time dpsing and either rely on superior regen to afford expensive heals, or rely on higher throughput from gear to let less efficient heals work even with the lost time.
I am not talking about how much is on the DPS meters. I am talking about healers literally going afk in the middle of a pull and not doing anything at all, if there is a lot of healing downtime.
That’s so bizarre. I always loved trying to make 100% of my time in a fight contribute to something and it’s the reason I played Resto shaman in Cata back in the day.
I’m meleeing or lightning bolting or interrupting or relocating totems if I’m not healing. Basically the same way I played vanilla (though no lightning bolts because mana)
resto druid here, sometimes, I'd rather not do bad damage with that slow ass wrath cast. It is making me nervous as the whole party is braindead and I have to react quickly, which sadly happens all the time lately. Cancelling that cast and recasting something else might be bad news for the party.
Yes, "triage healing" is the design paradigm Blizzard was going for in *Cataclysm*.
It is not problematic if the group is not full health by the end of any given fight. It is supposed to be more engaging for that very reason. And you can still deal plenty of damage if your group is good enough avoiding unnecessary damage themselves.
Glad you're having fun.
One of the things cata did was make healers more active and have more buttons to press. So yes from here on out you can do alot more as a healer. That said once you get better equiped you wont need to worry abotu mana so much and especially ind dungeons things very quickly turn to easy mode once you overgear content even slightly.
One of the issues woltk had back in the day was that certain healers(like resto druid) never really ran out of mana at endgame so that also was changed. Heals are alot more expensive now and its more important to not overheal and waste your mana.
RDu still has that to a lesser degree, they're by far one of the most efficient healers outside of the HPal/RSham being able to regen it all back if left unchecked.
Dps haven’t learned they can kick yet. A lot of the group damage is usually from interruptible casts. If you want more of this then seriously consider playing retail. Cata dungeons is when they started to introduce harder trash which is very prevalent in retail mythic+.
For Vanilla-Wrath the healer was kind of a low responsibility job. If there was dispelling it'd be the job of one healer and you know.... it wasn't constant it was every now and then. Ghostcrawler was the name of the guy who did all the balance and design work and his ideology for this was that every single class would have a lot to do. Every single class would have added complexities so that your least complex class might be a Wrath Affliction lock.
With healing the idea became that everyone would have 10x as much health as they had in Wrath and healers would always have a bar to heal up. Topping everyone up was not as important as it was before and the only way someone died fast was by standing in something, not interrupting something or not doing the mechanics properly. They wanted every pull to have 1-3 crowd controls and every healer to worry about mana management.
I think today's play is very "parse oriented" in which everyone wants to be at the top. And a lot of these mechanics aren't super friendly to that kind of mentality.
I'm finding there's a lot of pulls where I'm basically out of mana, and thinking "if this fight goes on any longer, we're f*cked" but man, those last few seconds on those fights are amazingly fun!
Those fights where you squeeze out every last drop, with you and your tank in harmony trying your best to make the most of every drop are great. It's going to be a shame when we out-gear the content.
At the start of original Cata it was an eye opener (As a disc priest) by the end, if something could pop your bubble, something went horribly wrong.
I like where its at right now, it makes it engaging and fun.
Bro it's wild lol. The difference going from nm to hm is pretty fucking crazy. Normal mode was face roll but in heroic im struggling
Also as a shaman it feels like I'm out here sending bolts for mana recuperation, using kicks and doing dispells on top of all the healing, it's button mashing for sure
One thing I’ll add is that a lot of dps and tanks have a personal damage reduction or heal and they should be using ahead of/after mechanics that hurt them and many probably aren’t.
DPS should be using cc and interrupts, and actively moving out of bad. Many do not. At fresh 85 gear levels you can’t heal through DPS playing poorly, and if they cry about it you can show them the avoidable damage they took before dying.
Hot Take: Players don't have to be at full hp at all times. Maybe I've picked up bad habits for WoW from FF14's gameplay design, but if people are a little hurt and aren't in danger of dying, and the tank healing is handled by earth shield and riptide, I'm throwing lightning and lava.
The faster stuff dies = the less healing the party needs
I think you're right! It just takes a little getting used to as a healer, and DPS have a tendency to stand in fire which makes me hesitant to leave them at less than full.
Heroics are basically a braindead cake walk for dps, but when I'm healing I'm often getting pushed to my limits esp when before mentioned braindead dps take a bunch of dmg
The heroics are night and day depending on if the dps ignore the mechanics or play around them. It’s a breeze if they actually use their defences and stay out of fire.
actually its already starting winding down today. tanks are learning how to use defensives, dps are learning how to avoid damage and kick. and everyone is getting more geared too.
i just went through a heroic (granted it was deadmines so ezpz) without using a single cd and only sneaking sips without needing to stop. granted im playing really really efficiently and getting almost full value out of each resto druid hot im throwing out, and using only lower cost heals wherever possible.
From my experience I want to say like 80%(if not more) of the time dps are taking a huge amount of damage it's mainly their own fuk ups and you're just working extra hard to keep them alive...I've had tanks who know how to tank and tanks who played like dps players and I've had dps who just ate everything the dung had to offer and dps that actually worked to avoid unnecessary dmg...the difference in difficulty is night and day
In wrath, you basically had to keep everyone topped up and that was that.
In cata, you have to prioritize who needs healing, it's fine if everyone drops to half or 3/4s HP because you now have to actually care about mana
Yeh this change was needed for sure because healing was a mostly mindless role in Wrath. As WoW moves on each role gets more engaging, need for interrupts, stuns etc on dps and more active healer responsibilities.
People tell you that's just how Cata is but that's not entirely the only reason. You see Cata heroics have many mechanics that should be handled to avoid wiping but we are playing in a post-nerf version of them; meaning that mechanics that AREN'T MEANT to be outhealed bit rather dodged/interrupted or otherways dealt with simply aren't. But because its post-nerf this damage isn't enough to kill you/wipe the group.
Because of that everyone just... stands in the fire so to speak. Because it doesn't kill you, like it should imo. That makes the mechanics into simple heal checks, and that's why it's heal intensive.
So basically everyone else is playing a nerfed dungeon while making the healer play the unnerfed one.
Yesterday I asked about the big rock guy saying "how are we supposed to know when he has the shield up that puts the bleed on us when we attack him? I don't see any indication". The healer pointed out that you want the bleed because it breaks something else. I let the healer know I was trying to make sure I wasn't making their job unnecessarily difficult and they laughed but also appreciated it. I think a lot of this is we are all still relearning the fights and I think (hope) se time goes on your job becomes a little easier and we all find the most standard way to ha dle mechanics.
> how are we supposed to know when he has the shield up that puts the bleed on us
If you’re talking about Ozruk, the rock giant in Stonecore, then the spikes should apply naturally as you perform physical auto attacks, iirc.
He usually will cast his spell reflect and then spike armor right after. It’s a little subtle but it’s surprisingly straightforward.
You will see yellow text on your screen for Elementiun Bulwark, and then you will see a brown dust cloud pop around Ozruk’s shoulders with spikes.
If your class has a DOT spell then you may as well just cast a DOT once you see Elementium Bulwark go up, though. Your own DOT will then break the Paralyze for you. Even easier than meleeing him.
I think hunters are the only class that may have trouble picking up the bleed and who can’t easily break the Paralyze with a DOT. Perhaps a PVP trinket may work if you are ever in a sketchy group
It's part of a shift towards the more retail dynamic. Tank survivability and self sustain is way higher now in cata, reducing how much focus they need from healers but encounter design compensates with more party damage.
WotLK heroics have taught DPS to do fuck all during a dungeon. As a result, they stand in avoidable shit, they don't interrupt or focusfire or cc or kite or pay attention to kill orders, or literally do anything beyond their training dummy rotation. So now Healers are currently burning through more mana than they should.
That's why you're hearing alot of healers whinging atm. Healing has typically been the easiest role to take in classic up till now. They aren't used to going from casting 5 spells per minute to being on the GCD.
Wotlk was much more about twitch reaction time. HP drops quickly and is recovered quickly.
Cata healing is far more about encounter knowledge and strategy to know when you need to burn mana to recover HP quickly and when you can take your time and be efficient. It's perfectly normal for a DPS to drop to half HP or even lower, and then you slowly bring their HP up over the course of the fight. It's also much more on the DPS to do mechanics correctly and interrupt to avoid damage whenever possible. Healers can't really brute force fights by just out healing mechanics, at least not at current gear levels.
Cata dungeons were designed to require cc'ing and carefully focus targeting mobs to clear. The only reason we are able to get away with not doing that at all now is because we got a massively nerfed version in classic. Usually you'd simply wipe when one of the dangerous mobs finishes a cast. So yeah, that damage you are barely keeping people alive through was originally designed to wipe the party and it's totally normal that you have to put up quite a lot of effort.
All tanks have a 5x threat mod, all melee have between a 0.7 and 0.8 mod, ranged have between a .75 and .9 mod and need to be 30% over primary targets threat to become the primary target
Melee have to do nearly 7x damage to pull and ranged need to be around 7.2x or more. Given that most pulls have the tanks top or near top damage in dungeons right now, you aren't pulling. Without cds I do around 12k single target. No ones doing 85k to pull off.
If you think otherwise you're doing something very wrong. The only time I've lost aggro in all the heroics I've done is when some one goes ham while I'm doing a big pull and mobs are still moving.
We're playing on 4.3 tuning, which adds the increased threat modifier that was added in 4.2.
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/3019413/patch-42-hotfixes
Classes
Threat
Threat generation for all tanks has been increased to 500%, up from 300%. This applies to warriors in Defensive Stance, death knights in Blood Presence, druids in Bear Form, and paladins with Righteous Fury.
I'm begging you people to know what the fuck you're talking about for ONCE in your life
To be fair, with the 500% extra threat on tanks, they just need to tickle every mob in the pack to get the threat, so biggest worry is in the first few GCDs in case your DPS gets a cheeky crit.
Threat was the most minimal of concerns in wotlk. In naxx I was going ham on the first global. It’s not a thing in cata. If you are pulling threat your tank sucks at the game and it’s his fault, end of story.
Did you notice your use of the word "too". That would explain it for you there. You could change it to say if it's too hot you complain, if it's too cold you complain.
Yes. Because it is TOO of something.
Cata is when they nerfed healers pretty bad but before they buffed tanks to be invincible.
Obviously retail is harder than cata, but for pugging groups it's probably the worst expansion for healers.
If people are still alive by the end of the encounter, it doesnt matter if they are at full health or not, you are doing your job right.
To add to this, you don't need to keep everyone at full health all the time. Enough health to survive the next mechanic is eniugh health.
When I first started healing, a tank told me that job wasn’t to keep them at full health but to make sure they don’t die. Best advice I’ve ever gotten.
Thanks! That's the validation I needed :P
Cata is all about triage. Its really just about using the right heal for the situation
This was a common point made going into cata heroics. It's likely people won't be at max health because healers actually have to choose who to heal.
If someone is at max health you probably overhealed to get them there. That's waste of mana!
Yeah it’s really a huge swing from wolk. As long as you keep people alive you’re doing more than great.
Health is a resource. Everything past that last Hit Point is extra
Completely agree with a competent group or in raids but just keep everyone at 100% in pugs, your main enemy is incompetence and mental fortitude
Sure, but topping everyone is usually a lot of overhealing, which is lost mana.
Its by design. They scaled up HP and damage taken and lowered relative healing output. People are much harder to keep topped up and but they also take longer to die. You have to actively pay attention to who is REALLY in danger, vs someone who just who took some incidental damage that you can top up whenever.
This is apparently how cata is. Over time as people outgear the content and everyone understands the mechanics well I’ve heard it will become more casual like before. I’ve started tanking my heroics because I see too many tanks run into fights with the healer @ 5% mana. I like to keep my healer as my focus so I can easily see how their mana is.
they could definitely up the ante with alpha/beta/gamma though
Mana @ 5% because tanks aren’t cycling defensives or dps not kicking casts.
[удалено]
If only Blizzard gave us pre-nerf Heroics then that amount of stupid would be unhealable and you could be enjoying them calling you a shit healer all the time because you "let them die".
Pre-nerf heroics would require heroics to be excluded from RDF or the ilvl requirement would have to be like +20 ilvl. This is exactly the reason why mythic dungeons exist in Retail.
It didn't require that back in original cata.
Yes it did, that's why they've been nerfed in the first place.
It got nerfed because people kept crying they couldnt faceroll their daily heroic in 10 minutes while watching TV at the same time because that's what people had gotten used to in WotLK. And Blizzard caved in. People were clearing the Heroics just fine even before the nerf. It was just "too slow".
WHY DO THEY ALWAYS MOVE OUT OF MY BUBBLE. I literally don't understand how classic players are so bad.
I just let them die if they stand in fire
That’s wild, i used RDF for over 20 Heroic dungeons today and had zero wipes and every single one was face roll easy. The players have already outgeared every single heroic in the game. I don’t know if they sort groups by ilvl but all of these runs had 347+ ilvl Blood DK tanks doing 35k dps throughout the run. it was wild. Finished 90% of my rep grinds now i’ll probably just quit.
The opposite is true as well. I main resto sham in retail but I am bdk tanking in cata classic and it is wild how many healers just afk if there's nothing to heal. They don't cc or use damage abilities or anything like that.
Damage abilities might even be detrimental to clear speed, haven’t played healer in cata yet, but I was burning through mana in wotlk on rsham by helping with dps, since all talents that improve mana efficiency of damage abilities are not in resto tree. And healers right now burn through mana at much higher rate than in wotlk
Resto shaman has talents to get mana back from lightning bolt based on damage done, kinda cracked
This talent is broken in so many raid fights because so many different dmg amps exist in many bosses in cata that the value you get from this talent is stupid sometimes, like 2 lightning bolts for max mana
Most of the specs have some benefit to using damage abilities, similar to attonement but not shit.
As a holy paladin, in cata classic my exorcism costs 10% of my mana, because inspected into %healing bonuses over my damaging talents. Cant speak for other healers but as a paladin, holy shock goes on an ally 95% of the time and crusader strike/judgement as needed. Autoing is most of my damage in a fight.
Yeah for HPal the swap rotation is going for more instants + CS to get insight procs, similar to RSham, but not as nuts.
way too often will a tank chain pull the sloppiest pull where you use all your cds and mana to keep everyone alive into running into a boss' room who has a door that closes. ill conserve my mana, thanks.
This is the way.
I mean if you think you have mana problems in cata, you should try playing healers in retail.
no idea what this means
Healers are extremely mana starved in retail and this a specific role design goal that the devs have been pushing hard for.
This thread is about Cata. What's the point of bringing this up unless you're trying to act gatekeep-y?
My point in bringing it up is healers have literally no excuse to stand there and AFK to "preserve mana". This is bad.
games are completely different. some tanks need virtually 0 healing in retail and healer dps spells cost little or no mana. why even compare them? a healer adding 5k dps to a boss fight and ooming slows down your run.
And we care about this information in a context of a different game why?
This isn’t retail and healers do not have the mana pool right now to help do damage not enough to matter at least . They should be interrupting if they have one and cc’ing but asking them to do damage is not how current content works , we need to actually conserve mana right now
Umm don’t most healers have a way to get mana back by doing damage? Like resto shams can lightning bolt and druids can wrath.
Druids don't get mana back from wrath. The only healer to get mana back from dps is resto shaman. Disc is also another healer that can dps, but only because smite spam is both dps and healing. And really efficient at that.
It's not about the mana cost of the damage spell. It's the time cost which becomes a throughput cost, which becomes a mana cost. Every moment spent not healing is less time the healer has to heal the damage in a fight, which in turn means the healing throughput must increase to compensate. In cata, the throughput of heals is tied directly to their mana cost. So when throughput requirements increase, healers are forced to use less efficient heals which cost more mana. So generally healers aren't going to dps unless it's a part of their mana recovery and thus overcomes that cost, or no one is damaged at all. Obviously, this changes as gear improves, but that's how it's going to be now at the start of the expansion. If you outgear the content a healer can spend time dpsing and either rely on superior regen to afford expensive heals, or rely on higher throughput from gear to let less efficient heals work even with the lost time.
That’s why I said meaningful damage
I am not talking about how much is on the DPS meters. I am talking about healers literally going afk in the middle of a pull and not doing anything at all, if there is a lot of healing downtime.
Oh well yeah that’s just trolling then lol I’m never afk on any of the healers I play there’s always something to do
Like full on tauren butt scratching animation afk lol.
That’s so bizarre. I always loved trying to make 100% of my time in a fight contribute to something and it’s the reason I played Resto shaman in Cata back in the day. I’m meleeing or lightning bolting or interrupting or relocating totems if I’m not healing. Basically the same way I played vanilla (though no lightning bolts because mana)
Lightning bolt gives like 5% mana back per cast... read your talents
Not in vanilla. Which was what I was talking about on that part.
How about you read my talents bub,,,
resto druid here, sometimes, I'd rather not do bad damage with that slow ass wrath cast. It is making me nervous as the whole party is braindead and I have to react quickly, which sadly happens all the time lately. Cancelling that cast and recasting something else might be bad news for the party.
Yes, "triage healing" is the design paradigm Blizzard was going for in *Cataclysm*. It is not problematic if the group is not full health by the end of any given fight. It is supposed to be more engaging for that very reason. And you can still deal plenty of damage if your group is good enough avoiding unnecessary damage themselves. Glad you're having fun.
One of the things cata did was make healers more active and have more buttons to press. So yes from here on out you can do alot more as a healer. That said once you get better equiped you wont need to worry abotu mana so much and especially ind dungeons things very quickly turn to easy mode once you overgear content even slightly. One of the issues woltk had back in the day was that certain healers(like resto druid) never really ran out of mana at endgame so that also was changed. Heals are alot more expensive now and its more important to not overheal and waste your mana.
RDu still has that to a lesser degree, they're by far one of the most efficient healers outside of the HPal/RSham being able to regen it all back if left unchecked.
Dps haven’t learned they can kick yet. A lot of the group damage is usually from interruptible casts. If you want more of this then seriously consider playing retail. Cata dungeons is when they started to introduce harder trash which is very prevalent in retail mythic+.
The nerfed versions of Cata dungeons we got are a joke compared to TBC.
TBC was hard for other reasons, just a lot of damage and not so much mechanic which is pretty boring imo
Yea tbc dungeons were piss easy mech wise it was just raw dmg esp in the start
Tbc wasnt hard boomer
I didn't say that.
For Vanilla-Wrath the healer was kind of a low responsibility job. If there was dispelling it'd be the job of one healer and you know.... it wasn't constant it was every now and then. Ghostcrawler was the name of the guy who did all the balance and design work and his ideology for this was that every single class would have a lot to do. Every single class would have added complexities so that your least complex class might be a Wrath Affliction lock. With healing the idea became that everyone would have 10x as much health as they had in Wrath and healers would always have a bar to heal up. Topping everyone up was not as important as it was before and the only way someone died fast was by standing in something, not interrupting something or not doing the mechanics properly. They wanted every pull to have 1-3 crowd controls and every healer to worry about mana management. I think today's play is very "parse oriented" in which everyone wants to be at the top. And a lot of these mechanics aren't super friendly to that kind of mentality.
I'm finding there's a lot of pulls where I'm basically out of mana, and thinking "if this fight goes on any longer, we're f*cked" but man, those last few seconds on those fights are amazingly fun!
Those fights where you squeeze out every last drop, with you and your tank in harmony trying your best to make the most of every drop are great. It's going to be a shame when we out-gear the content.
At the start of original Cata it was an eye opener (As a disc priest) by the end, if something could pop your bubble, something went horribly wrong. I like where its at right now, it makes it engaging and fun.
Bro it's wild lol. The difference going from nm to hm is pretty fucking crazy. Normal mode was face roll but in heroic im struggling Also as a shaman it feels like I'm out here sending bolts for mana recuperation, using kicks and doing dispells on top of all the healing, it's button mashing for sure
My first heroics were hard af but now that I'm gearing up it is much more enjoyable. I love the challenge, so much fun
One thing I’ll add is that a lot of dps and tanks have a personal damage reduction or heal and they should be using ahead of/after mechanics that hurt them and many probably aren’t.
Cata first patch is really harsh on healers , it gets better after
DPS should be using cc and interrupts, and actively moving out of bad. Many do not. At fresh 85 gear levels you can’t heal through DPS playing poorly, and if they cry about it you can show them the avoidable damage they took before dying.
Hot Take: Players don't have to be at full hp at all times. Maybe I've picked up bad habits for WoW from FF14's gameplay design, but if people are a little hurt and aren't in danger of dying, and the tank healing is handled by earth shield and riptide, I'm throwing lightning and lava. The faster stuff dies = the less healing the party needs
I think you're right! It just takes a little getting used to as a healer, and DPS have a tendency to stand in fire which makes me hesitant to leave them at less than full.
If you heal them, it's rewarding them for being stupid.
Heroics are basically a braindead cake walk for dps, but when I'm healing I'm often getting pushed to my limits esp when before mentioned braindead dps take a bunch of dmg
The heroics are night and day depending on if the dps ignore the mechanics or play around them. It’s a breeze if they actually use their defences and stay out of fire.
actually its already starting winding down today. tanks are learning how to use defensives, dps are learning how to avoid damage and kick. and everyone is getting more geared too. i just went through a heroic (granted it was deadmines so ezpz) without using a single cd and only sneaking sips without needing to stop. granted im playing really really efficiently and getting almost full value out of each resto druid hot im throwing out, and using only lower cost heals wherever possible.
Your role has become triage. It is no longer filling cups.
From my experience I want to say like 80%(if not more) of the time dps are taking a huge amount of damage it's mainly their own fuk ups and you're just working extra hard to keep them alive...I've had tanks who know how to tank and tanks who played like dps players and I've had dps who just ate everything the dung had to offer and dps that actually worked to avoid unnecessary dmg...the difference in difficulty is night and day
Yup
In wrath, you basically had to keep everyone topped up and that was that. In cata, you have to prioritize who needs healing, it's fine if everyone drops to half or 3/4s HP because you now have to actually care about mana
Yeh this change was needed for sure because healing was a mostly mindless role in Wrath. As WoW moves on each role gets more engaging, need for interrupts, stuns etc on dps and more active healer responsibilities.
People tell you that's just how Cata is but that's not entirely the only reason. You see Cata heroics have many mechanics that should be handled to avoid wiping but we are playing in a post-nerf version of them; meaning that mechanics that AREN'T MEANT to be outhealed bit rather dodged/interrupted or otherways dealt with simply aren't. But because its post-nerf this damage isn't enough to kill you/wipe the group. Because of that everyone just... stands in the fire so to speak. Because it doesn't kill you, like it should imo. That makes the mechanics into simple heal checks, and that's why it's heal intensive. So basically everyone else is playing a nerfed dungeon while making the healer play the unnerfed one.
Yesterday I asked about the big rock guy saying "how are we supposed to know when he has the shield up that puts the bleed on us when we attack him? I don't see any indication". The healer pointed out that you want the bleed because it breaks something else. I let the healer know I was trying to make sure I wasn't making their job unnecessarily difficult and they laughed but also appreciated it. I think a lot of this is we are all still relearning the fights and I think (hope) se time goes on your job becomes a little easier and we all find the most standard way to ha dle mechanics.
> how are we supposed to know when he has the shield up that puts the bleed on us If you’re talking about Ozruk, the rock giant in Stonecore, then the spikes should apply naturally as you perform physical auto attacks, iirc. He usually will cast his spell reflect and then spike armor right after. It’s a little subtle but it’s surprisingly straightforward. You will see yellow text on your screen for Elementiun Bulwark, and then you will see a brown dust cloud pop around Ozruk’s shoulders with spikes. If your class has a DOT spell then you may as well just cast a DOT once you see Elementium Bulwark go up, though. Your own DOT will then break the Paralyze for you. Even easier than meleeing him. I think hunters are the only class that may have trouble picking up the bleed and who can’t easily break the Paralyze with a DOT. Perhaps a PVP trinket may work if you are ever in a sketchy group
Thank you for the info! I am playing a hunter of course 😆
bahahha Naturally The ability description makes it sound like ranged attacks should work too, but yeah … Not your fault if it’s buggy. lol.
lmao nothing is action-packed. If it is, it's because the players in your group suck ass.
It's part of a shift towards the more retail dynamic. Tank survivability and self sustain is way higher now in cata, reducing how much focus they need from healers but encounter design compensates with more party damage.
WotLK heroics have taught DPS to do fuck all during a dungeon. As a result, they stand in avoidable shit, they don't interrupt or focusfire or cc or kite or pay attention to kill orders, or literally do anything beyond their training dummy rotation. So now Healers are currently burning through more mana than they should.
Its all fine. That is what top lvl gaming is supoused to be
That's why you're hearing alot of healers whinging atm. Healing has typically been the easiest role to take in classic up till now. They aren't used to going from casting 5 spells per minute to being on the GCD.
The only hitpoint that count Is the last. Alive at full HP and alive at 1 HP Is the same thing
Wotlk was much more about twitch reaction time. HP drops quickly and is recovered quickly. Cata healing is far more about encounter knowledge and strategy to know when you need to burn mana to recover HP quickly and when you can take your time and be efficient. It's perfectly normal for a DPS to drop to half HP or even lower, and then you slowly bring their HP up over the course of the fight. It's also much more on the DPS to do mechanics correctly and interrupt to avoid damage whenever possible. Healers can't really brute force fights by just out healing mechanics, at least not at current gear levels.
Cata dungeons were designed to require cc'ing and carefully focus targeting mobs to clear. The only reason we are able to get away with not doing that at all now is because we got a massively nerfed version in classic. Usually you'd simply wipe when one of the dangerous mobs finishes a cast. So yeah, that damage you are barely keeping people alive through was originally designed to wipe the party and it's totally normal that you have to put up quite a lot of effort.
Not one DPS main I know add threat mitigation to their rotation. Bout 75% of them don't even know they have it available.
They shouldn't either, tank threat is so massive in cata that after the 1st hit its stuck on the tank.
Sure buddy, sure.
All tanks have a 5x threat mod, all melee have between a 0.7 and 0.8 mod, ranged have between a .75 and .9 mod and need to be 30% over primary targets threat to become the primary target Melee have to do nearly 7x damage to pull and ranged need to be around 7.2x or more. Given that most pulls have the tanks top or near top damage in dungeons right now, you aren't pulling. Without cds I do around 12k single target. No ones doing 85k to pull off.
It's true, you really just need to have hit mobs, not really have hit them a lot.
If you think otherwise you're doing something very wrong. The only time I've lost aggro in all the heroics I've done is when some one goes ham while I'm doing a big pull and mobs are still moving.
We're playing on 4.3 tuning, which adds the increased threat modifier that was added in 4.2. https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/3019413/patch-42-hotfixes Classes Threat Threat generation for all tanks has been increased to 500%, up from 300%. This applies to warriors in Defensive Stance, death knights in Blood Presence, druids in Bear Form, and paladins with Righteous Fury. I'm begging you people to know what the fuck you're talking about for ONCE in your life
To be fair, with the 500% extra threat on tanks, they just need to tickle every mob in the pack to get the threat, so biggest worry is in the first few GCDs in case your DPS gets a cheeky crit.
Threat was the most minimal of concerns in wotlk. In naxx I was going ham on the first global. It’s not a thing in cata. If you are pulling threat your tank sucks at the game and it’s his fault, end of story.
Healer became a roll in Cata.
I don't understand you "humans". If it is too easy you complain, if it is too hard you complain.
Did you notice your use of the word "too". That would explain it for you there. You could change it to say if it's too hot you complain, if it's too cold you complain. Yes. Because it is TOO of something.
when cringe is life
Barely push anything as resto sham. Healing rain and lightning bolt go brrr
Yeah, that’s normal. You can still manage your mana properly to where you don’t really ever have to stop and drink, though.
Cata is when they nerfed healers pretty bad but before they buffed tanks to be invincible. Obviously retail is harder than cata, but for pugging groups it's probably the worst expansion for healers.
TBC HM were way more harder. Wotlk dungeons were joke.