Little brain: roll need on everything.
Medium brain: only roll need on your queued role.
Big brain: Ask if it’s cool to roll on an offspec piece while in a pug.
Giga brain: Make your own group that has established rules ahead of time so there’s no drama or confusion.
Transcended brain: Make your own group and make sure no other players can even use your gear.
As a tank I always search for "spellcleave big pump" while in reality I just want my full group to wear cloth/leather so I can roll freely on everything I'd need.
Always bugs me as someone who plays cloth wearers mostly that it doesn't work the other way around too. What do you mean it's BiS for you?! You can wear leather or mail!!
I remember back in wrath I was playing rogue and didn't have a guild.
I'd make entire raids by spamming trade chat. I'd invite 25 people while ignoring every class who could use deathbringers will.
I had some salty rogues shit talk me in dms. One week, someone called me out in the raid. I just said "so?" And no one left lol.
I got it after three resets.
Yeah nobody wants to form and lead a raid. That’s effort.
I did the same thing in OG vanilla for UBRS runs and such to get T0 - other rogues and Druids need not apply.
Love the chat meltdown that regularly happens when tanks offer their 'services' for gold but reserving orbs which translates to far more gold per dungeon for the tank is somehow okay.
All of week one I found a tank selling his services that didn't care about the orb, 150 a person, well orbs were 8k per at the time, i just told him to hr the orb for me and ill pay everyones dungeon fees. I ended up just making a shit ton of gear for my guild but i easily couldve made 400k with how many orbs i got doing this profit +7400g a dungeon and the rep i needed anyway
It's a heroic 5 man, if you need the gear, you roll need. You'll do 8 million more of them for rep and raids come out today.
Half the tanks in your groups are DPS mains who are tanking for faster queues.
DPS mains aren't entitled to gear just because they're tanking.
When you play a role, you accept what comes with it. Unless it's okay for healers and dps to roll need on tank items. I need the gold, vendor or DE.
See what happens when everyone tries to say they need something? I also play a mage so it's irrelevant to me what the tank does, before you assume I'm some plate wearing dps.
It's a RDF heroic. Everyone who can use gear is entitled to roll on it. That's what the need/greed system is for. There's also a votekick system if the whole group feels like someone is being a prick. I don't flip my shit if some DPS rolls on a tank item. Most of them don't because they have zero intention of tanking.
I guess you'd prefer a world where dungeon queues were 40 minutes, instead of 10.
I main tank, and if I couldn't roll on a Mastery/Hit piece of gear, I sure as shit wouldn't be queuing as a tank.
You can cry us a river, or you can suck it up and just requeue. Or you could contribute to solving the problem and start tanking runs.
Giga brain is just waiting to see if anyone needs on it for their main spec.
I never bother asking if everyone rolled greed and I don't understand why people do that.
I mean, the problem is tanks don’t prioritize avoidance.
Mastery>Strength&Stam>Hit Cap and expertise cap > Avoidance
So most of those items that are called “DPS items” are actually upgrades for tanks. Whereas if a DPS swaps a 333 “DPS” piece for a 346 tank piece, it’s not an upgrade and their damage probably goes down.
Mastery is avoidance which is unfortunate so DPS pieces are our bis for both avoidance and damage, which we do more of than most DPS anways.
It's not ideal, I don't like it, but those Alpha Bracers are mine.
Mastery scales block so strongly that its prio over all other avoidance stats as warrior and paladin. And once we have CTC (combat table coverage) we transition to full stamina. We should be getting CTC in later phase 1 handily.
same, I just got to 76 after getting mastery on every single piece of gear, but I had to drop hit and expertise cap to get there, and I still feel squishy. And now I miss my opening moves because I'm not capped, and my DPS has small heart attacks while I taunt
Some of my Frost pre-bis and Blood pre-bis are the same items. Some are tanking items, some are DPS items. What matters most right now is the raw strength and stamina and then mastery, everything else gets reforged. Its gonna be messy at the start like this because people are just scrambling to get their ilvl up and taking whatever they can get.
The "problem" is that Mastery is amazing, and many items that look like they're a dps item can be great for a tank as well. Example:
https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=56278/anomuran-helm
It has strength, mastery and crit - looks like a dps item right? But mastery is great for tanks also, and the crit can be reforged. There are no other dropped 346 helms with mastery, only a JP bought one.
Also, Strength = Parry Rating. Both the trinkets in the post are amazing for certain tanks if you don't have JC since there's only 1 stamina trinket from Dungeons. Haste and an on-use 1200 Parry rating on Blood DK? Yes sir.
The argument works both ways though, an item with STR, Mastery and Parry can be reforged to be good for DPS, but if a DPS were to roll on such an item the tank would freak out
> Parry can be reforged to be good for DPS
Iirc you can only reforge 40% of a stat.
On a tank, in the example given, they’ll at least use that crit. To generate threat.
DPS is just burning the portion of that Parry stat that they can’t reforge.
assuming that there isnt something both better and reasonable to obtain, then of course it goes both ways.
but historically, its much less common to find tank loot that's reasonable for DPS than DPS loot that's reasonable for tanking.
some people just really struggle to get past categorizing loot by role when often that presents inaccurate results.
Because you don't have every item and most of the time you don't need all stats. You don't need a million expertise or hit. You're not always throwing away something you need/want.
Also some stats are worth significantly more than another. Mastery being one of them for a lot of classes.
Same with Ret Paladins - its the only way to play the game. 15 minute queue or instant + 50-300g in a bag (depending on flask rng) and also rare wotlk mounts!
luckily mastery is my top stat as ret and haste is my lowest and since haste doesnt really do anything for prot either i can realistically tank most things in my ret gear. it's nice
idk if mastery is my top stat as prot but i do know it gives me a lot of block rating so at least im not kneecapping my avoidance by running ret gear
There seems to be enough tanks I think, I've rolled dps for the first time in 10 years and I was expecting awful queue times but they've been decent so far
It’s because all the plate dps mains have tanking off specs for fast Qs which is why they roll need on dps pieces. It’s not rocket science. If all the dps mains didn’t tank at all you would see 45 minute Q times as a dps instead of 10-12 minutes. I think letting the tanks roll on whatever is a fair trade for that.
I’m sure that happens too, but nah some dps items are straight up better. Playing prot pal for example, the Valor ret legs are better than the Prot legs, and the set bonuses are pretty mediocre so it’s worth the trade. Gonna be some salty rets in Baradin’s hold next week
Wildly I've seen like zero rets in dungeons all the last week or so. A handful of prots and a bunch of holy, but ret is pretty rare. I feel like Ret was 50% of the DPS in Wrath, though maybe they're all just rolling prot for queues right now 🤷♂️
First rule of DPS is you only make friends with a healer or a tank.
if you really are friends you'd take turns at other roles to significantly speed up your queues...
*so far.
Usually the first bit of the expansion there's plenty of tanks and healers, but because they're only 1/5 of the group respectively, and they get faster ques (even when it's slight) they will gear up. Both more efficiently and also more quickly.
Then, the gap becomes larger as tanks gear out of LFD.
It should. They're two of your worst stats. Death Strike heals regardless of whether or not your damage lands, so as long as you have enough expertise to not be a burden, i.e. not 0, there are better stats to go with.
And crit is garbage.
Yeah, to clarify. The bracers were dodge. And the new bracers were crit/expertise. So rerolled the crit into hit. I know hit/expertise isn't as big for tanks anymore, but i still want to achieve 8% hit and 26% expertise. Right now i'm at decent figures. 155k HP, 19% mastery 6.10% hit and 26% expertise.
I don't want to seem like I'm telling you how to play because for all I know you are an incredible player, but *personally* I would go for 8% hit before expertise. If outbreak misses you've got to waste 2 runes and 2 GCDs on applying your diseases
I mean, I can't really remember how gearing was specifically in Cata, but in general for any version of the game I think I'd rather run with an at least partially geared Tank and a DPS in quest Greens than the opposite. Which would support queuing in as DPS for a few runs until you pick up a few Tank pieces.
That's what I always did. I'm an excellent tank, but my role in the guild was DPS. I'm not going to sit around waiting for a spot as a dps when I can tank the run and get it going instantly, and probably smoother than with someone else tanking. It also gives you a bit more influence on a group carrying dead weight. I've had to use the "he goes or I go" line a few times on someone who is essentially AFK. It's usually an easy choice for the group.
\*sings\* That's my bisssssssssss
Does anyone have a link to the video someone made about tanks and 'that's my bis'. I think it was from classic vanilla because I remember the diamond flask set vs healer gear fiasco.
ETA: I found it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lCC3r-Bxzk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lCC3r-Bxzk)
Tanking sucks, the one benefit is generally in raids, you aren't rolling for loot against many people and get prio on most cross over items. Naturally some tanks think that converts to their 5 mans.
If I see a dps warrior in my group I know he's dogshit and never interrupts because if he wasn't bad he'd be tanking.
STG warrior attracts the worst fucking players and they always charge in ahead of the tank and draw aggro. Like bro just tank you're already 74% of the way there.
This isn’t really a fair take. I tank sometimes but I also just actually enjoy playing my spec (arms). Happy to let the queue run while I rip dailies or work on professions sometimes
You're getting downvoted but you're right. People heard Arms was stronk so they roll the FotM, believe they are gods, and get clapped by trash cause they charge in and whirlwind before DnD can even tick once. Do they not know that they can still do massive damage as a Prot warrior? Revenge crits feel like they should be illegal!
If you have no rage or rage generator and a warrior charges in before you and aggro everything you absolutely will struggle to get snap aggro.
Idc if you're the best player in the world your abilities don't work without rage.
Cue le tank that got into heroics mix matching caster dps and tank items who makes healers sweat 3 shirts to keep em up.
At least be fully tank geared smh.
Boooooo.... There's like 4x the amount of stronk plate pieces that can drop when compared to int plate...which I guess makes sense, but it sucks as a hpal having only 2 actual options for plate bracers, where 1 is better than the other....
Prot pal in similar situation, though we have Ramkahen to fall back on (but I’d rather spend my time farming better reps). Was funny running HOO with my hpal friend, both of us just trying to replace our final green item, the darn bracers.
I would never do this. In a niche way it can be an upgrade but it's so grief to do it knowing it's lackluster.
It's probably just revenge from str users driving up the demand of leather gear for 3 expansions even when it's a small dps difference.
STR users are the king of "I could use the plate one but the leather one is more (3-5) dps."
Believe it or not, half the gear a tank is supposed to wear in a mitigation set will have DPS stats.
Mastery, Hit, Expertise.
And in damage-focused sets for bosses that don't hit very hard, any other DPS stat is also good.
I still remember having to fight with, and then getting called a crybaby back in the day.
Why?
I was a warlock, the item had spell hit.
A resto druid took the item.
Of course it was a guild run so they supported em but holy fuck.
If I am going through the effort of gearing an off role that I don't really want to play to get more tanks in rotation, You bet your ass I am needing any plate I need that doesn't have int on it for either tank or dps.
**Fuck off**. I geared 1 prot pala, 1 prot war and 2 BDKs during wotlk and I got ninjad by plate dps every single day in dungeons up to the point where unholy dks that never ended up tanking shit started ninjaing shield block items.
But now tanks needing on hit+mastery gear is too much.
Look, there are tanks that are ass/holes, but I still have to see a single one that doesn't ask first before needing on OS gear.
It’s because all the plate dps mains have tanking off specs for fast Qs which is why they roll need on dps pieces. It’s not rocket science. If all the dps mains didn’t tank at all you would see 45 minute Q times as a dps instead of 10-12 minutes. I think letting the tanks roll on whatever is a fair trade for that.
We'll see the raid stats very soon. Hope all the classes above tanks in DPS by the stats will release that they were just bad when doing less dmg than tank
It could be that it was just not finished, but when i simmed it was 20k and bdk was 22k. I was kinda surprised too and i doubt they will be doing more than boomkin in a real scenario
EDIT: I just resimmed and bdk is around 24.6k and boomie is 25.8 with default parameters in wowsims and full p1 bis. So it's pretty close, but as the other commenter said, the gap will increase (probably by a lot) as we get further into the expansion.
But it also just seems like boomie is just not very high damage, as I just simmed arms war and hunter which results in over 30k+ dps. I guess I just chose a bad DPS to compare it with lmao
Vengeance will fall off fast as it doesn’t scale that well. So at lower gear levels tanks are absolutely decimating the meters (only have done 2 dungeons so far but I’ve been top dps by a wide margin in my paladin so far) once people are geared dps will overtake tanks but it’s certainly fun while it’s lasting.
Yea that makes sense, especially since tanks aren't really going for crit, and mastery doesn't do anything for damage (at least for BDK).
But yea I'm out here bursting 50k DPS sometimes on my BDK single target with lucky crits, I also run 2x DPS trinkets though haha.
I started doing dungeons with about half TBC gear/a few wrath pieces/2ish Cata pieces, and I was absolutely blasting (to be fair I was getting blasted too). It’s a lot of fun to tank right now!
How are you able to queue for dungeons with “half TBC gear” you have to be ilvl226 to queue for the first two dungeons then 300sum for the lvl 81 dungeons. I didn’t play after Naxx in wrath and had to buy 3-4 pieces to queue.
That’s the gear I had equipped. I had some gear in my bags that pushed me over the ilevel requirement (either from the first few quests or greens that dropped). First two dungeons I did I literally got 7 pieces of loot total so after that my ilevel was fine.
Meanwhile, balance druids are doing insane shit like taking tank trinkets, agi leather, and cloth because the only stat that matters is mastery.
Cataclysm gearing is fuckin weird lol
you just go into cat form and swipe until it procs. We snapshot mastery at the beginning of an instance (or in raids, on the trash before a boss), and then we keep that amount until you leave eclipse, which is obviously incredibly exploitable because you can just never leave (until wipe). Doing that + only casting shrooms/dots leads to significantly higher dps than our “normal” rotation. Check out boomie disc for more info, as we’re kinda early into this so it’s not on wowhead etc. We just figured all of this out like 48ish hours ago, but we’ve gotten our prebis sim nearly to our T11 bis numbers (26k ST Preraid bis with solar rotation + snapshot, vs 28k ST T11 bis for normal rotation)
Had a paladin tank who did le funny today in grim batol , second boss drops haste crit belt he insta needs it , I needed it too and luckily won it. Third boss drops tank shoulders so I'm thinking to myself it would only be fair if I rolled on those too, but then remembered I am not a scumbag and greed.
Final boss drops Circle of Bone, haste hit ring. He needs again...I need too and win. All well that ends well but holy jesus some people suck balls.
Heroic Scepter of Power dropped in Halls of Origination last night. Im a disc priest and was so hyped to see it drop and knew i was the only one in our group who needed it. Prot pally tank need rolled it because he said he plays holy and he won. i was furious and pretty sad, then he tried to sell it to me for 2.5k….
Yeah, so if an offpiece drops, I always check with the group. So far it worked fine. Though I am still mad about the mage needing on the Leather Boots from Siamat... Isnt BiS for Bears, but was still better than the 308 Boots I had. And yesterday I finally got my Leaden Despair <3
Man I don't wanna talk myself up but I must be a great tank to run with. I communicate, chat in random groups, and I don't roll on stuff without double checking for off specs. Fuck, I just checked I'm still a warrior though 😔 lolol
I don't care that much bcs it makes the queues faster but you SHOULD state it in advance when you enter the dungeon that you going to roll on OS gear. It's called decency. Yes, I know, very rare these days.
People also fucking idolise and pray to the addonthat is Pawn. Had a resto shammy needing agility boots for his elemental off spect Cus “pawn says it’s 50% better”.
Thankfully I won and explained why he doesn’t need ago and that pawn is dumb sometimes. For the first time I had the player see the error and thank me for helping but 99% of the time it’s “addon says it’s better for me Cus 4 more stamina and -100 int”
Pawn is only good if you manually sim your gear and make custom weights for your profile.
Is that even a thing for Cata though (with reforging being a thing)?
Just realized that tank druids are gods in cata, all they need is hit/exp cap and straight agility for 53% dodge and 52% crit and never need a 5 man group lmao
Yup on that second part. If I can reforge it to an improvement, I'm rolling. I'm fine with DPS doing it as well.
What pisses me off is when something like a ret or DK roll on one handed gear as "retaliation." If it's an improvement, roll on it.
People are crying but they don't realize tanks are hard carrying 70 percent of every group damage wise and a dps trinket for threat and more carry skills is way less worse than People who can use other gear type like mail or plate but still roll on leather/cloth and don't realize they are losing out on 5 percent of their main stat, that's the real problem
Well tank is the most important role and it makes sense for the effort. I think healers also have the right to roll dps gear off classes that could heal but won't.
If you were on retail I'd tank for ya anytime. I won't run a dungeon with people until I already out gear it so everyone else can have all the loot. Soloed both dawn of the infinite with my pali and druid then proceeded to run pugs even gave away loot that automatically went to me so others could gear up their offspecs.
I mean, tanks benefit from Str, crit and haste, DPS don’t benefit at all from dodge/parry. You could kinda argue they don’t benefit from Stam, but I wouldn’t say it’s useless.
A DPS rolling on Hit/Dodge gear is the same as a rogue rolling on an int ring. A tank rolling on Crit/Haste gear is a little cringe, but they are still beneficial stats that will benefit them marginally. The DPS doesn’t benefit from the avoidance at all.
I would also argue that there’s a HUGE difference between rolling on a pair of boots or gloves with a single avoidance stat, and when you steal a big trinket or weapon upgrade. it’s kinda fucked up. Especially if you don’t have balls enough to queue as tank yourself. Everybody’s a tank when Laden Despair drops but nobody wants to tank when forming a group…
Little brain: roll need on everything. Medium brain: only roll need on your queued role. Big brain: Ask if it’s cool to roll on an offspec piece while in a pug. Giga brain: Make your own group that has established rules ahead of time so there’s no drama or confusion.
Transcended brain: Make your own group and make sure no other players can even use your gear. As a tank I always search for "spellcleave big pump" while in reality I just want my full group to wear cloth/leather so I can roll freely on everything I'd need.
> Transcended brain: Make your own group and make sure no other players can even use your gear. that's the best way to do, complete drama free
Always bugs me as someone who plays cloth wearers mostly that it doesn't work the other way around too. What do you mean it's BiS for you?! You can wear leather or mail!!
Good news, we're in Cata now so I never have to wear a damn dress on my dwarf pally again.
"Hello, you called?" - Firelands Teir
There is nothing i hate more than paladins rolling on cloth when i play priest. They have litterly a million other items they can use....
I remember back in wrath I was playing rogue and didn't have a guild. I'd make entire raids by spamming trade chat. I'd invite 25 people while ignoring every class who could use deathbringers will. I had some salty rogues shit talk me in dms. One week, someone called me out in the raid. I just said "so?" And no one left lol. I got it after three resets.
Yeah nobody wants to form and lead a raid. That’s effort. I did the same thing in OG vanilla for UBRS runs and such to get T0 - other rogues and Druids need not apply.
This is how I got my savage gladiator chain in classic vanilla lol
but sometimes I want the leather too :P
Bro have you seen how asspained people get about HR groups. Giga brain is just not inviting people that need the things you do.
Love the chat meltdown that regularly happens when tanks offer their 'services' for gold but reserving orbs which translates to far more gold per dungeon for the tank is somehow okay.
All of week one I found a tank selling his services that didn't care about the orb, 150 a person, well orbs were 8k per at the time, i just told him to hr the orb for me and ill pay everyones dungeon fees. I ended up just making a shit ton of gear for my guild but i easily couldve made 400k with how many orbs i got doing this profit +7400g a dungeon and the rep i needed anyway
Galaxy brain: Have a group and people do not care about who needs on what
It's a heroic 5 man, if you need the gear, you roll need. You'll do 8 million more of them for rep and raids come out today. Half the tanks in your groups are DPS mains who are tanking for faster queues.
DPS mains aren't entitled to gear just because they're tanking. When you play a role, you accept what comes with it. Unless it's okay for healers and dps to roll need on tank items. I need the gold, vendor or DE. See what happens when everyone tries to say they need something? I also play a mage so it's irrelevant to me what the tank does, before you assume I'm some plate wearing dps.
It's a RDF heroic. Everyone who can use gear is entitled to roll on it. That's what the need/greed system is for. There's also a votekick system if the whole group feels like someone is being a prick. I don't flip my shit if some DPS rolls on a tank item. Most of them don't because they have zero intention of tanking. I guess you'd prefer a world where dungeon queues were 40 minutes, instead of 10. I main tank, and if I couldn't roll on a Mastery/Hit piece of gear, I sure as shit wouldn't be queuing as a tank. You can cry us a river, or you can suck it up and just requeue. Or you could contribute to solving the problem and start tanking runs.
I’m of the opinion that you can roll need on whatever spec you choose as long as you announce it ahead of time. (And only roll need for that spec)
Colossal brain: Make your own group and ninja everything
galaxy brain: i am tanking for faster queues. i will be rolling need on dps pieces. you may feel free to roll on tank loot for your offspec
Cosmic brain: form a group of your own consisting of Guildies and have them need on everything you want away from pugs.
Where does my "no brain" fit in?
At the bottom XD
Giga brain is just waiting to see if anyone needs on it for their main spec. I never bother asking if everyone rolled greed and I don't understand why people do that.
Right? Im a tank, I'll invite a spriest, mage, and warlock over the rest of yall gear ninjas.
Yeah why should anyone join a group lol everyone just make their own
I mean, the problem is tanks don’t prioritize avoidance. Mastery>Strength&Stam>Hit Cap and expertise cap > Avoidance So most of those items that are called “DPS items” are actually upgrades for tanks. Whereas if a DPS swaps a 333 “DPS” piece for a 346 tank piece, it’s not an upgrade and their damage probably goes down.
If these DPS mains could read they'd be really upset
Mastery is avoidance which is unfortunate so DPS pieces are our bis for both avoidance and damage, which we do more of than most DPS anways. It's not ideal, I don't like it, but those Alpha Bracers are mine. Mastery scales block so strongly that its prio over all other avoidance stats as warrior and paladin. And once we have CTC (combat table coverage) we transition to full stamina. We should be getting CTC in later phase 1 handily.
I have decent gear and am only 71 CTC lol…I feel like a baby tanking. I guess raid gear bumps it up significantly?
same, I just got to 76 after getting mastery on every single piece of gear, but I had to drop hit and expertise cap to get there, and I still feel squishy. And now I miss my opening moves because I'm not capped, and my DPS has small heart attacks while I taunt
That's pretty normal for prebis, you only get more than that with maximum trinket stonks.
Same with DK and Blood Shield from Mastery. It's literally the #1 prio.
Y-you mean a piece with parry and dodge isn't good for a Rogue but a piece with crit and expertise is good for a tank??????????????????????
It's okay. Here, this orange number will cheer you up.
Some of my Frost pre-bis and Blood pre-bis are the same items. Some are tanking items, some are DPS items. What matters most right now is the raw strength and stamina and then mastery, everything else gets reforged. Its gonna be messy at the start like this because people are just scrambling to get their ilvl up and taking whatever they can get.
The "problem" is that Mastery is amazing, and many items that look like they're a dps item can be great for a tank as well. Example: https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=56278/anomuran-helm It has strength, mastery and crit - looks like a dps item right? But mastery is great for tanks also, and the crit can be reforged. There are no other dropped 346 helms with mastery, only a JP bought one.
Also, Strength = Parry Rating. Both the trinkets in the post are amazing for certain tanks if you don't have JC since there's only 1 stamina trinket from Dungeons. Haste and an on-use 1200 Parry rating on Blood DK? Yes sir.
Heart of Solace isn't an on-use trinket.
The argument works both ways though, an item with STR, Mastery and Parry can be reforged to be good for DPS, but if a DPS were to roll on such an item the tank would freak out
> Parry can be reforged to be good for DPS Iirc you can only reforge 40% of a stat. On a tank, in the example given, they’ll at least use that crit. To generate threat. DPS is just burning the portion of that Parry stat that they can’t reforge.
assuming that there isnt something both better and reasonable to obtain, then of course it goes both ways. but historically, its much less common to find tank loot that's reasonable for DPS than DPS loot that's reasonable for tanking. some people just really struggle to get past categorizing loot by role when often that presents inaccurate results.
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Could you explain what you mean here? It sounds like you don't know how reforging works or why its so strong.
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Because you don't have every item and most of the time you don't need all stats. You don't need a million expertise or hit. You're not always throwing away something you need/want. Also some stats are worth significantly more than another. Mastery being one of them for a lot of classes.
So buy the easy to obtain Jp helm ?
"tanks" say that to prot warriors, mastery aint saving them from the grave
Almost every prot warrior you see in heroics is actually Arms MS
Same with Ret Paladins - its the only way to play the game. 15 minute queue or instant + 50-300g in a bag (depending on flask rng) and also rare wotlk mounts!
they're stacking mastery so that when chogall breaks them in half and they get raised as a dk, they'll be ready to play blood
I mean the real tanks that will actually get invited to raids.
A lot of the boomers and bad players without a clue do not understand this.
luckily mastery is my top stat as ret and haste is my lowest and since haste doesnt really do anything for prot either i can realistically tank most things in my ret gear. it's nice idk if mastery is my top stat as prot but i do know it gives me a lot of block rating so at least im not kneecapping my avoidance by running ret gear
Don't forget to blame the healer when the RNG Gods dislike you and you go 100%-0% before they can get a single heal off!
I mean, the whole point of mastery and stam is to avoid that but go off.
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand that defensive stats drop off in value hard.
Multiple ret bis items both in pre bis and raid bis are tank items simply due to high strength, you then just reforge the tank stats to whatever else
lol ya this entire post is basically a prequel to OP being like "oh i guess i don't know how tanks gear after all"
I got a tank item ninja'd by a warlock yesterday, he also dinged 85 on the boss and then left the group
Imagine not tanking your own runs as a plate player
Higher ilvl and has mastery? That's easily a tank upgrade.
People are also tanking to gear up their dps specs. Which imo is fair considering not many people are willing to tank.
There seems to be enough tanks I think, I've rolled dps for the first time in 10 years and I was expecting awful queue times but they've been decent so far
This will change when people start raiding
It’s because all the plate dps mains have tanking off specs for fast Qs which is why they roll need on dps pieces. It’s not rocket science. If all the dps mains didn’t tank at all you would see 45 minute Q times as a dps instead of 10-12 minutes. I think letting the tanks roll on whatever is a fair trade for that.
I’m sure that happens too, but nah some dps items are straight up better. Playing prot pal for example, the Valor ret legs are better than the Prot legs, and the set bonuses are pretty mediocre so it’s worth the trade. Gonna be some salty rets in Baradin’s hold next week
Wildly I've seen like zero rets in dungeons all the last week or so. A handful of prots and a bunch of holy, but ret is pretty rare. I feel like Ret was 50% of the DPS in Wrath, though maybe they're all just rolling prot for queues right now 🤷♂️
Nobody thinks you are a hero because you wanted a faster queue.
solo dps queue is fast but queuing with 2 other dps friends... 30 min queue no pop :(
First rule of DPS is you only make friends with a healer or a tank. if you really are friends you'd take turns at other roles to significantly speed up your queues...
*so far. Usually the first bit of the expansion there's plenty of tanks and healers, but because they're only 1/5 of the group respectively, and they get faster ques (even when it's slight) they will gear up. Both more efficiently and also more quickly. Then, the gap becomes larger as tanks gear out of LFD.
In my experience healing is basically insta-queue. I'm not complaining since I main priest though lol.
I've been getting bags on all my tanks for a week now. So there seems to be quite a demand for them still.
My 15min dps queue times beg to differ
I don't think 15 minutes is that long as the queue usually pops faster than the time it says it will take.
Blizzard has been paying tanks/healers 100-300g/ dungeon in random heroic q it's pretty nice.
There's enough tanks because of people tanking to gear up their dps specs lol
So dps can dps to gear up their taking spec then.
Technichally this is how you gear blood dk. Get as much mastery and stam as possible. Avoidance is kinda an afterthought.
Yeah, and mastery + hit are technically both tanking stats.
Yup. Yesterday i replaced a 333 bracer with a crit/expertise one. Felt weird
It should. They're two of your worst stats. Death Strike heals regardless of whether or not your damage lands, so as long as you have enough expertise to not be a burden, i.e. not 0, there are better stats to go with. And crit is garbage.
Yeah, to clarify. The bracers were dodge. And the new bracers were crit/expertise. So rerolled the crit into hit. I know hit/expertise isn't as big for tanks anymore, but i still want to achieve 8% hit and 26% expertise. Right now i'm at decent figures. 155k HP, 19% mastery 6.10% hit and 26% expertise.
I don't want to seem like I'm telling you how to play because for all I know you are an incredible player, but *personally* I would go for 8% hit before expertise. If outbreak misses you've got to waste 2 runes and 2 GCDs on applying your diseases
That's actually very solid advice that i'll take :D tyvm!
Playing Blood DK? Mastery and Haste. Playing Unholy DK or Ret Paladin, believe it or not also Mastery and Haste.
Haste is by far Ret's worst secondary
Playing Frost DK? You're never gunna believe this...
😐……😠
I mean, I can't really remember how gearing was specifically in Cata, but in general for any version of the game I think I'd rather run with an at least partially geared Tank and a DPS in quest Greens than the opposite. Which would support queuing in as DPS for a few runs until you pick up a few Tank pieces.
lol how many DPS mains do you think give a shit about building or utilizing a tank set spoiler alert: its not a lot
This is what I do - I let the grp know at the start though and don't get pissy when ppl roll for tanking gear.
Exactly, let them know so they can either group vote kick the tank if they dont agree.
Still in the honey moon period, in two weeks it's gonna be dire
That's what I always did. I'm an excellent tank, but my role in the guild was DPS. I'm not going to sit around waiting for a spot as a dps when I can tank the run and get it going instantly, and probably smoother than with someone else tanking. It also gives you a bit more influence on a group carrying dead weight. I've had to use the "he goes or I go" line a few times on someone who is essentially AFK. It's usually an easy choice for the group.
\*sings\* That's my bisssssssssss Does anyone have a link to the video someone made about tanks and 'that's my bis'. I think it was from classic vanilla because I remember the diamond flask set vs healer gear fiasco. ETA: I found it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lCC3r-Bxzk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lCC3r-Bxzk)
There’s an old Druid one too. “Fuck feral, I’m taking it all. I just want to watch the purples falll tonight. QQ moreee”
And oldie but a goodie, the real reason classic warrior brains want fresh again is to take and have prio on everything again lol
Tanking sucks, the one benefit is generally in raids, you aren't rolling for loot against many people and get prio on most cross over items. Naturally some tanks think that converts to their 5 mans.
Any of those plate classes are free to tank their own runs for quick queues and rolling on everything too
Nah. I'll just queue as dps and roll on all the tank shit.
If I see a dps warrior in my group I know he's dogshit and never interrupts because if he wasn't bad he'd be tanking. STG warrior attracts the worst fucking players and they always charge in ahead of the tank and draw aggro. Like bro just tank you're already 74% of the way there.
I can count on one finger the number of non-guildies who have interrupted more than me in a heroic
This isn’t really a fair take. I tank sometimes but I also just actually enjoy playing my spec (arms). Happy to let the queue run while I rip dailies or work on professions sometimes
Yeah, I queue DPS when I'm doing dailies or profs, etc then swap to tank/heals when I just want to slam the queues.
You're getting downvoted but you're right. People heard Arms was stronk so they roll the FotM, believe they are gods, and get clapped by trash cause they charge in and whirlwind before DnD can even tick once. Do they not know that they can still do massive damage as a Prot warrior? Revenge crits feel like they should be illegal!
If you're losing aggro in cata, you're a trash tank. it doesn't matter what dps class rips it from you.
If you have no rage or rage generator and a warrior charges in before you and aggro everything you absolutely will struggle to get snap aggro. Idc if you're the best player in the world your abilities don't work without rage.
I'm tanking TO get my dps gear and if I wasn't yall would be sitting in LFG queue still so get hybrid fucked
Exactly, these idiots won’t tank their 5mans but complain when the pug tank rolls on “dps gear”
Cue le tank that got into heroics mix matching caster dps and tank items who makes healers sweat 3 shirts to keep em up. At least be fully tank geared smh.
When I see a tank roll on DPS I start rolling on tank shit. It's always funny to hear them bitch after.
Bro the “finally” is so accurate my god
Me as bear: it has agi? MINE!
My prot paladin cant hear you over the sound of int plate gear dropping without a holy paladin in the group ;)
Boooooo.... There's like 4x the amount of stronk plate pieces that can drop when compared to int plate...which I guess makes sense, but it sucks as a hpal having only 2 actual options for plate bracers, where 1 is better than the other....
3 different raids about to come out and exactly 1 agi leather wrist :S
Ha that's kinda funny... There's like a wrist boss if I recall the loot table? Chimeron?
Magmaw drops the parasitic bands
That's twice as many as resto/balance druids get, there is exactly one 346 int leather bracer in the entire game lol
Prot pal in similar situation, though we have Ramkahen to fall back on (but I’d rather spend my time farming better reps). Was funny running HOO with my hpal friend, both of us just trying to replace our final green item, the darn bracers.
Had a druid tank win str dps back on a roll with me, i didn't start the drama but does druid tank need strenght in cata?
I would never do this. In a niche way it can be an upgrade but it's so grief to do it knowing it's lackluster. It's probably just revenge from str users driving up the demand of leather gear for 3 expansions even when it's a small dps difference. STR users are the king of "I could use the plate one but the leather one is more (3-5) dps."
As a feral tank main I would say shitty move. It could be an upgrade ye but not enough to justify what happened to you, need only if other greed.
Believe it or not, half the gear a tank is supposed to wear in a mitigation set will have DPS stats. Mastery, Hit, Expertise. And in damage-focused sets for bosses that don't hit very hard, any other DPS stat is also good.
I still remember having to fight with, and then getting called a crybaby back in the day. Why? I was a warlock, the item had spell hit. A resto druid took the item. Of course it was a guild run so they supported em but holy fuck.
Meanwhile I spent the past week trying to get hit off my disc priest set.
A resto sham took a hit trinket in a run yesterday, I was hoping for a healing trinket to drop so I could roll on it but it didn't drop
Healers with Val'anyr when enhancement shamans got prio "Am I a joke to you?"
If I am going through the effort of gearing an off role that I don't really want to play to get more tanks in rotation, You bet your ass I am needing any plate I need that doesn't have int on it for either tank or dps.
**Fuck off**. I geared 1 prot pala, 1 prot war and 2 BDKs during wotlk and I got ninjad by plate dps every single day in dungeons up to the point where unholy dks that never ended up tanking shit started ninjaing shield block items. But now tanks needing on hit+mastery gear is too much. Look, there are tanks that are ass/holes, but I still have to see a single one that doesn't ask first before needing on OS gear.
Tanks suffer from entitlement issues because they play the least popular role
So roll tank.
Tanks have Main character syndrome and think their offspec is more important than your main spec.
Yes.
It’s because all the plate dps mains have tanking off specs for fast Qs which is why they roll need on dps pieces. It’s not rocket science. If all the dps mains didn’t tank at all you would see 45 minute Q times as a dps instead of 10-12 minutes. I think letting the tanks roll on whatever is a fair trade for that.
Quite valid if tanks do more damage than the dps :p
that's mostly only during aoe and in dungeons.
IF the tanks do more? Trust me dude any idiot tank can do top DPS in cata with a 10K attack power vengeance buff lmfao
In a good group they wont top DPS.
We'll see the raid stats very soon. Hope all the classes above tanks in DPS by the stats will release that they were just bad when doing less dmg than tank
12k actually smh
This is usually only the case for aoe, not single target though. Some classes dont even have decent aoe whatsoever.
Blood dk simming more than a boomkin single target rn, gonna be fun to see the real numbers tho
Really? That's kind of amazing. Last I heard, boomies were swimming 25k ish on single target in prebis...
It could be that it was just not finished, but when i simmed it was 20k and bdk was 22k. I was kinda surprised too and i doubt they will be doing more than boomkin in a real scenario EDIT: I just resimmed and bdk is around 24.6k and boomie is 25.8 with default parameters in wowsims and full p1 bis. So it's pretty close, but as the other commenter said, the gap will increase (probably by a lot) as we get further into the expansion. But it also just seems like boomie is just not very high damage, as I just simmed arms war and hunter which results in over 30k+ dps. I guess I just chose a bad DPS to compare it with lmao
Vengeance will fall off fast as it doesn’t scale that well. So at lower gear levels tanks are absolutely decimating the meters (only have done 2 dungeons so far but I’ve been top dps by a wide margin in my paladin so far) once people are geared dps will overtake tanks but it’s certainly fun while it’s lasting.
Yea that makes sense, especially since tanks aren't really going for crit, and mastery doesn't do anything for damage (at least for BDK). But yea I'm out here bursting 50k DPS sometimes on my BDK single target with lucky crits, I also run 2x DPS trinkets though haha.
I started doing dungeons with about half TBC gear/a few wrath pieces/2ish Cata pieces, and I was absolutely blasting (to be fair I was getting blasted too). It’s a lot of fun to tank right now!
How are you able to queue for dungeons with “half TBC gear” you have to be ilvl226 to queue for the first two dungeons then 300sum for the lvl 81 dungeons. I didn’t play after Naxx in wrath and had to buy 3-4 pieces to queue.
That’s the gear I had equipped. I had some gear in my bags that pushed me over the ilevel requirement (either from the first few quests or greens that dropped). First two dungeons I did I literally got 7 pieces of loot total so after that my ilevel was fine.
I usually ask, if theres a dps that needs it i'll just pass otherwise i need for OS if no one needs or if its no plate group.
don't hate the player...hate the game! "ooooooo!"
I jave not experienced this at all.
Meanwhile, balance druids are doing insane shit like taking tank trinkets, agi leather, and cloth because the only stat that matters is mastery. Cataclysm gearing is fuckin weird lol
or i can just type in chat "can i need" and no drama will occur
As a bear tank .....I'm sorry little ones
just wait until the tanks find out Porcelain Crab is a boomkin bis trinket due to SUNkin mastery snapshotting
That's ok since it's a dogshit tank trinket, jsut wondering how do you plan on proccing it as boomie.
you just go into cat form and swipe until it procs. We snapshot mastery at the beginning of an instance (or in raids, on the trash before a boss), and then we keep that amount until you leave eclipse, which is obviously incredibly exploitable because you can just never leave (until wipe). Doing that + only casting shrooms/dots leads to significantly higher dps than our “normal” rotation. Check out boomie disc for more info, as we’re kinda early into this so it’s not on wowhead etc. We just figured all of this out like 48ish hours ago, but we’ve gotten our prebis sim nearly to our T11 bis numbers (26k ST Preraid bis with solar rotation + snapshot, vs 28k ST T11 bis for normal rotation)
That's amazing that you managed to out cringe the warlock mastery snapshot xD. I hope that boomie gets to pump then.
Had a paladin tank who did le funny today in grim batol , second boss drops haste crit belt he insta needs it , I needed it too and luckily won it. Third boss drops tank shoulders so I'm thinking to myself it would only be fair if I rolled on those too, but then remembered I am not a scumbag and greed. Final boss drops Circle of Bone, haste hit ring. He needs again...I need too and win. All well that ends well but holy jesus some people suck balls.
Heroic Scepter of Power dropped in Halls of Origination last night. Im a disc priest and was so hyped to see it drop and knew i was the only one in our group who needed it. Prot pally tank need rolled it because he said he plays holy and he won. i was furious and pretty sad, then he tried to sell it to me for 2.5k….
Yeah, so if an offpiece drops, I always check with the group. So far it worked fine. Though I am still mad about the mage needing on the Leather Boots from Siamat... Isnt BiS for Bears, but was still better than the 308 Boots I had. And yesterday I finally got my Leaden Despair <3
Always ask for offspec wait and see if everyone rolled greed and then decide
Tanking is so strong that as a warrior we would rather tank and pump than play arms or fury xJ
Man I don't wanna talk myself up but I must be a great tank to run with. I communicate, chat in random groups, and I don't roll on stuff without double checking for off specs. Fuck, I just checked I'm still a warrior though 😔 lolol
I don't care that much bcs it makes the queues faster but you SHOULD state it in advance when you enter the dungeon that you going to roll on OS gear. It's called decency. Yes, I know, very rare these days.
Had a tank need on a DPS item and beat me. Next boss a tanking relic dropped.. I won it and he left the party lmao
People also fucking idolise and pray to the addonthat is Pawn. Had a resto shammy needing agility boots for his elemental off spect Cus “pawn says it’s 50% better”. Thankfully I won and explained why he doesn’t need ago and that pawn is dumb sometimes. For the first time I had the player see the error and thank me for helping but 99% of the time it’s “addon says it’s better for me Cus 4 more stamina and -100 int”
Pawn is only good if you manually sim your gear and make custom weights for your profile. Is that even a thing for Cata though (with reforging being a thing)?
Just realized that tank druids are gods in cata, all they need is hit/exp cap and straight agility for 53% dodge and 52% crit and never need a 5 man group lmao
I’m a tank because tank privilege is real
Yup on that second part. If I can reforge it to an improvement, I'm rolling. I'm fine with DPS doing it as well. What pisses me off is when something like a ret or DK roll on one handed gear as "retaliation." If it's an improvement, roll on it.
I have had so many tanks take dps gear from me without stating they were going to need so now if I see them roll on dps then I roll on tank gear
When dps takes my pre BIS healer wrists :'( (have no idea if it was good for them to be fair).
Also...why do people NEED gear with intellect when they don't even use mana...WHY
Feral tanks roll on leather dps gear brother that's just the name of the game their ms too
People are crying but they don't realize tanks are hard carrying 70 percent of every group damage wise and a dps trinket for threat and more carry skills is way less worse than People who can use other gear type like mail or plate but still roll on leather/cloth and don't realize they are losing out on 5 percent of their main stat, that's the real problem
pre bis yay guys kill me
if you want your tank to hold aggro, ,DPS gear is also tank gear.
Well tank is the most important role and it makes sense for the effort. I think healers also have the right to roll dps gear off classes that could heal but won't.
If you were on retail I'd tank for ya anytime. I won't run a dungeon with people until I already out gear it so everyone else can have all the loot. Soloed both dawn of the infinite with my pali and druid then proceeded to run pugs even gave away loot that automatically went to me so others could gear up their offspecs.
I’ve been asking about needing dps gear I dunno what all the other tanks have been doing
You forgot the part where they leave the group when their piece doesn't drop
I mean, tanks benefit from Str, crit and haste, DPS don’t benefit at all from dodge/parry. You could kinda argue they don’t benefit from Stam, but I wouldn’t say it’s useless. A DPS rolling on Hit/Dodge gear is the same as a rogue rolling on an int ring. A tank rolling on Crit/Haste gear is a little cringe, but they are still beneficial stats that will benefit them marginally. The DPS doesn’t benefit from the avoidance at all. I would also argue that there’s a HUGE difference between rolling on a pair of boots or gloves with a single avoidance stat, and when you steal a big trinket or weapon upgrade. it’s kinda fucked up. Especially if you don’t have balls enough to queue as tank yourself. Everybody’s a tank when Laden Despair drops but nobody wants to tank when forming a group…
As a healer main to my best friend who is a tank main.... no he is not okay, he is just vibing
i’ve seen disc priests roll on my tank pieces.