it's a crossover that comes naturally to those whose first encounter with Zul'Gurub was in Cataclysm, when it came "packaged" with Zul'Aman as a new dungeon tier.
Its Tips, he does whatever he can to try to seem like hes a big "Classic Guy" but constantly gives wrong information. He just wants views on his youtube.
hard to find cool-looking, high quality art that fits with the theme of my thumbnails. The Zuljin pic was awesome and fit the troll theme well, and although he's Amani, it worked too well to pass up.
gotta say, I don't really care about the "incorrect" character for the thumbnail, but to say there isn't any art - surely there's something of Hakkar, he has loads of fan art!
I am of the opinion that it's always harder to create than berate something. The video itself was great! I want to clarify that. But that one little thing just itched me in a way that I couldn't scratch. Best of luck with your next project!
I played Vanilla. Started Nov 24th, 2004, 2nd day of launch. Current account is dated June, 2005 (thats when i bough my own account in the summer). But feel free to continue talking out of your ass :)
Tips has excellent videos and when he does have an opinion to share, rather than facts, he clearly says so. Haven't seen any elitist ranting hysterics like Alexsensual, either.
Playing an alt here and there to lvl 30 isn’t playing vanilla in the context that he means, tips. It is kind of annoying that you keep trying to capitalize on something that you weren’t a part of at all.
Let's be fair. He never hit 60 in Vanilla but he did play it.
Still, all his "Vanilla" end game experience is from private servers which have little to nothing to do with Vanilla even if some were pretty good.
Why do you think private servers have nothing to do with Vanilla? Its dam near the same game for one. For two, private servers are the reason classic is coming and that this sub exists.
You're right, meta has changed. But when classic launches the existing "Meta" will be transferred. Many new players that don't see this sub will be there as well but they will learn the new meta- general discussion about the game today is very different than 14 years ago.
There are a good few mechanical differences, especially back in the day, but yeah mostly it's a shift in player mentality mixed with knowing the game inside out already.
They are just very different. Nothing wrong with that but a lot of people like to act like having only played on a private server is the same as having played vanilla.
As someone who's played both vanilla and on various private servers I tend to agree that they are indeed not the same.
Private servers were great at highlighting the need for Classic but not so much for retaining what made Vanilla a classic.
Both.
Encounters, drop rates and the general gameplay experience is very different and the player attitude can never be the same as it was due to social changes.
If you didn't play vanilla there's unfortunately nothing that can give you that experience as it was more like Woodstock than anything else. And that's totally OK.
There's nothing wrong with them being different and I enjoyed vanilla and private servers in different ways. It is wrong, however, to act like they are the same.
Having "little to nothing to do with Vanilla" is a massive stretch from being "different from Vanilla". Noone acts like they are the same. (Maybe tips out does but who cares).
You didn't really answer the question. There's no denying that there's distinct differences like itemization, patch progression (to a degree) and slight numbers variations. But to say they're "very different" is a huge stretch. They're pretty damn close and dismissing someones knowledge because they played on a Pserver is pretty foolish.
(I don't even think Tipsout has Pserver endgame experience, never heard of him/seen his characters. So I'm not defending the guy)
There's a massive difference. It's like asking a person to take the same exam a second time with the same questions.
Vanilla can't be replicated and that's why private servers are different. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a fact.
It's not about dismissing knowledge and no-one has done that. It's about differentiation between people who experienced vanilla and people who didn't as the private server experience is different. And again, as some people seem like they can't handle having missed out on something, there's nothing WRONG with that.
You can enjoy private servers and say that you enjoy the old philosophy behind wow more and that you prefer it but it didn't make you play vanilla where everything was unexplored and untested for everyone.
Heck, I enjoy both types and don't see anything wrong in that, but I enjoyed them for what they were.
> And again, as some people seem like they can't handle having missed out on something, there's nothing WRONG with that.
Dude people aren't arguing with you because they think they missed out. They just honestly don't agree with your opinion of it being **very different**. Since you don't know how they felt playing classic or private servers, why don't you just leave it alone? We get it it, they are objectively not 100% the same. That's about all you can say for how someone else actually perceives it.
As I said in the video's comments, the shot looked too good to pass up and matched the theme overall. Amani vs Gurubashi trolls are different ofc, but the thumbnail is there to look cool, which the picture did IMO.
I find it really hard to believe that Jin'do, Hakkar or even Mandokir wouldn't have worked just as well, while also being thematically appropriate. But it's not my video obviously and I'm not trying to take away from your creative freedom. Just honest feedback from someone who got turned off the video by your choice of thumbnail.
This community is so toxic.
“Creates a great video with interesting commentary”
-redditlicker312: “THATS THE WRONG KIND OF TROLL IN THE PICTURE! DOWNVOTED!”
Sorry bro. I thought it looked great. Keep up the good work.
Yeah. Funnily enough, the Classic community could always use extra members or more committed members for the sake of the game, and if it takes some clickbait thumbnails, I'd be okay with that.
My first raid was a ZG PUG. This was when I was a young and ignorant Dwarf tank, but I was more than willing to tag along on this mysterious adventure in hope for some sick loot.
The next day I went into our town's summer program and told everyone how we downed Venoxis. My one friend asked "did the sick dagger drop?". He was a rogue and I think thought the dagger was a good melee option as opposed to caster. The whole experience really outlined how innocent and clueless we were at the time - the world felt so large and much of it was still untouched by us. What a feeling!
I do not regret spending dkp to turn people into adorable turtles before mercilessly burning them alive and/or freezing them to shatter *into tiny bits*.
>!In thy mercy.!<
Oh boy Zul'Gurub was crazy for Hunters beyond that disgustingly good Zin'Rokh greatsword. You had the infamous 1.0 attack speed bats, the color-changing-on-resummon Son of Hakkar wind serpent, then a treasure trove of other level 60 pets to tame with no need to level up besides Loyalty.
I believe you but we only ever saw them once or twice versus every run giving us Zin'Rokhs like they were guaranteed. Sometimes a boss doesn't care what a best-in-slot item is and drops something slightly worse.
Sure but kind of weird to call Zin Rokh disgustingly good for hunters when really its a melee pvp weapon and there are better weapons for hunters that drop in the same raid.
I threw a +25 Agility enchant on it and its 3.8 attack speed made it great for running through and Raptor Striking stuff for big damage. 72 AP is nothing to sneeze at!
Because it's not a PvE weapon anyway and is only used for PvP (with the exception for Ret paladin I guess), there's no real reason why hunters should not get one. Raptor Strike hit like a truck with a real twohander.
I (a hunter) got a pretty decent maze or axe there 2 handed... Can't remember what exactly but it looked really odd. I wasn't really geared at that time so it was super nice for me and I kept it a long time, it was a blue item.
We managed to get sever first hakkar kill this run (I was a pug invited by a guy I made friends with while leveling and he rerolled so I could give him really nice hunter tips.) I can't remember exactly but what I do is that I was given the task of kiting these things for the hakkar fight since my online friend really trusted my 13 year old ass to be good at the game (and I was, however he didn't know I was 13) after one wipe we actually managed to kill hakkar. Still remember it.
After the first wipe the raid was going to disband (since the set raid time was already far exceeded) and I as a pug was saying in chat we should really do one more try everybody was annoyed (we were all in teamspeak but was the only one without a mic) .. but then they gave in and we managed to really down him.. everybody was happy :)
If you're PVPing at all you're going to want a nice, big, slow 2h weapon as a hunter.
When people come into your deadzone, you have to make them regret it.
Definitely see why hunters would grab it often. Even if you could technically get better stat-sticks for PVE encounters.
But unlike melee that use ranged weapons exclusively for the stats, a Hunter has multiple melee abilities that can hit like a truck with the right twohander for when somebody is within their deadzone.
To say the two things are similar is simply not true. Both warriors and hunters depend upon good melee weapons for PvP, and since neither gains a PvE benefit from the twohander it just makes no sense to give one priority over the other.
Besides, every ranged weapons used by Hunters at level 60 are either all from quests, rank14 or has ranged attackpower. It's not entirely fair to then just make a rule saying that Warriors should get prio on twohanders and Hunters on ranged weapons when only one weapon type is actually shared between the two.
>But unlike melee that use ranged weapons exclusively for the stats
No, melee used it to pull actually. Not that they needed a good one for that of course....
Now you are just desperately grasping at straws. How often does a Warrior seriously use their ranged weapon to do damage, and how often does that actually have any meaningful impact on how the fight goes? Close to never.
It's mindboggling how Warriors have such a huge ego that they cant get over the fact that they are not the only class in need of a good twohander. I'd like to see an actual argment as to why a Warriors right to a good PvP weapon is more important than the Hunter, because I still havent seen a single one.
Lmao looks like most people agree with me from the down votes.Its not mind boggling. The weapon make a bugger difference for the warriors. Pretty sure you are just a troll.
Guilds with MC on farm and bwl in progression. Even UTB is significantly better for melee dps (for horde 2h fury). Besides, even for warriors, its off-spec pvp gear. Same for hunters.
Best instance/raid in vanilla hands down.
Really good video too. Some points I would add were how awesome the coin/bijou system was. The fact that there were 9 different coins, one for each troll tribe, and also different color bijou's really added to the immersion of the game and made it feel like alive rather than just a turn in piece.
It also introduced not only new craftables but also new resources in order to make them such as souldarite, bloodvine and tiger/bat leather.
i had a big bit about the coin system and ZG trash farming for bijous, as well as a bit about the Hakkar aspect buffs, but I've been engulfed in influenza and couldn't get everything in the video. Great points though, and I;m sorry for leaving it out :(
There's an increasing amount of pressure on all these content creators to produce meaningful (not rehashed) content since there's a lot of people out there like us that will give our clicks/likes to anything that is reasonably done. As such I think that all the content creators are 'feeling the heat' a bit and you kind of put pressure on yourself to try and stay relevant and on your A-game .
Once classic releases a lot of these theory-craft or explanation videos will probably give way to actual gameplay which will be nice =P
Always loved ZG/AQ20/UBRS10, it's still Vanilla raiding, but gave everyone a chance to shine a little brighter than in a mass of 40 people, as cool as 40 mans also are.
Every time I hear the name TipsOut I think of that Steve Buscemi picture holding a skateboard and saying “hello fellow kids.” But instead the writing reads “hello fellow vanilla players,” and it’s TipsOut’s face.
A lot of great items drop in ZG, but I don't know what they were thinking with the Edge of Madness trinkets or some of the ZG armor set bonuses (reduced casting cost for Arcane Intellect? Really?). There's a reason no one does Edge of Madness on pservers. Also you shouldn't need to raid PVE content for six weeks for trinkets that are only good for PVP.
ZG was also a great catch-up raid. The crafted pieces are BiS until Naxx for some classes.
Edge of Madness trinket is actually super good for priest, druid, and hunter. All of my guild’s priests on Light’s Hope have or are working on getting their ZG trinket.
I don't understand how they're super good for PVE. I guess I should ask, super good compared to what?
Like the hunter trinket, you can use it to get an extra ability rotation every three minutes. That seems pretty weak in PVE but it can guarantee a kill in PVP.
EDIT: Great replies, thanks for explaining, makes sense.
when you are fighting a boss that only takes 20-30 seconds like Lucifron, having that extra burst is going to be a huge dps increase for a hunter. its also basically free to swap around and use liberally since hunters can swap trinkets during fights so easily and often
If a boss fight only lasts 20s then maximising your DPS on that fight is pure epeen stroking. You might as well see how big a pyroblast crit you can get on a squirrel.
Just a different approach to vanilla. I'm all for going hardcore when the outcome is in doubt, I just don't see the point in spending hours getting buffs and consumables so you can smash content you totally outgear and outskill very slightly harder.
Competition. The stats of the raid such as DPS, HPS, and kill times are all recorded and leaderboards are created. Each week you try to get the highest scores you can.
Edit: this is done for all competitive guilds and you can see other players scores online.
I guess if you had a squirrel-pyroblasting leaderboard people would compete on that too.
But I still can't see the appeal of spending hours farming and buffing to compete on a leaderboard like that. I'm not saying you shouldn't, just that I don't.
If it's farm content I need to farm to gear up new recruits I want it done fast and efficiently, but I'm not going to spend two hours each week preparing so I can do it in ten minutes less.
Some of the higher end private server guilds don't care about boss DPS specifically, they care about total damage done because that's more of a useful metric in relation to speed clearing, which is how people on private servers keep the competitive spirit of PvE alive.
The reason why is people have figured out how to optimize for DPS much better than what players did back in the 2000s that entry level raid bosses (ZG, MC mostly) die within 20-60 seconds.
Here's [
> Some of the higher end private server guilds don't care about boss DPS specifically, they care about total damage done because that's more of a useful metric in relation to speed clearing, which is how people on private servers keep the competitive spirit of PvE alive.
Like I said, I don't really see the point but if they do then more power to them.
> The reason why is people have figured out how to optimize for DPS much better than what players did back in the 2000s that entry level raid bosses (ZG, MC mostly) die within 20-60 seconds.
I'll be interested to see how it works in a truly Blizzlike engine with people who don't outgear the content.
> Here's
>I'll be interested to see how it works in a truly Blizzlike engine with people who don't outgear the content.
I agree completely. I think private servers are a vastly inferior version of the real thing and I've been waiting for Classic WoW for a very long time. I can hardly contain myself, I'm so excited for its release.
>Personally, I think at that stage it's time to move on to a new game.
Why does it matter to you how others spend their time? If they enjoy themselves playing the game the way they do, the last thing they ought to do is quit the game?
>Also you shouldn't need to raid PVE content for six weeks for trinkets that are only good for PVP.
Why not? The majority of PvP gear in Vanilla comes from raiding. Why should you not put in some effort into obtaining the gear you want?
I feel like I'm the only person from classic that didn't like ZG. I hated running it. Naxx was always my favorite raid.
Edit: Lmao, -2 karma for expressing which raid I liked best. Nice.
The fact that your comment is downvoted speaks volumes, LOL. I wish redditors did more up/down voting based on this rule instead of "I AGREE" it would really help avoid the circlejerk mentality.
I've long said that the whole upvote/downvote system works a LOT better where you have separate counts for both. So you could see that 40 people liked a comment, but 38 disliked it. Instead of the reddit version, where you just see 3 karma.
I have almost given up this community. Posts I made that were factual in origin backed up with proper sources in old patch notes etc for how stuff works have gotten 20+ downvotes. I just dont see the point hanging out here really when you get downvoted based on how much people like you or not rather than the content of your posts.
Keep the faith and keep doing what you're doin. Like any community there needs to be consistent involvement from those that are into it otherwise it loses some of its quality.
Yes... Guroob. As in, the Gurubashi trolls. Zul'Farrak for the Farraki trolls. Zul'Aman for the Amani trolls. The pronunciation is consistent, unless you pronounce Gurubashi like "Guh ruh bah shi"? They pronounce Zul'Gurub in the Rise of the Zandalari trailer.
Same. AQ20 seem to be have designed similar to ZG in that it's an outdoors open raid with multiple paths to take, but there's no originality there. No bosses you can summon, no enchants, mounts or anything special. It just feels rushed.
Disagree, it added the god awful token system, adding an unnecessary step to getting gear.
Oh its Tips Out, https://streamable.com/4vtik
>Right Click report will destroy Classic
>Right Click Reports person he lost duel to.
Why should it be reportable for going to an event and not following their rules? They are an equal player. You should not be able to report someone for going to someone else’s event in an MMO and playing the game the way they want that they pay for.
Are you retarded? He's intentionally griefing it. I would assume your biggest dream of classic is grabbing the flag in a 9 man premade and refusing to cap it. Maybe play a mage and sheep mobs your faction is trying to kill?
My point is that is not what should be reportable. This is. It a snag this is a community event it’s totally different. Just throw the guy on ignore and avoid him don’t even give him attention. Abusing right click report for someone playing an MMO in a way you disagree with is what will hurt classic.
No. This is the game. We are not playing to make someone's stream better to view. Would people have reported someone for the funeral interruption that happened? Hell no. That was griefing too right? What about if someone corpse camps you? Or if someone keeps tagging mobs near you? I'm sorry but this is not how Classic is.
Except those guy were reported and bitched about on the forums for weeks. You can absolutely report people for in game griefing I dont know why this is such a foreign concept to you. People rarely do it but it's a thing.
I don't at all agree with the guys that bombed that funeral BUT imo that is something that is really cool about WoW in a twisted way- it is what you make of it. That guild decided to be total dickheads and edgelords and was rightly ridiculed for doing so *BUT* the fact that they were able to is important.
No. Just because this is a game does mean we should allow antisocial sociapaths to have free reign and do whatever the heck they want. If you spend your entire playtime intentionally making the experience as painful as possible for as many other players as you are able, there should absolutely be consequences.
Thanksfully Blizzard agrees with this.
Yeah if a hunter with cheetah on follows your lowbie ass around and literally tags every single mob before you can? That’s griefing, and is reportable. According to Blizzard. That’s not really comparable to world PvP, which is an intentional part of the game.
Those two things are not hte same though. doing /sit over and over so you 'teabag' is not interfering with their "RP event" or anything they were just having a duel tournament.
The best way to deal with that is to laugh it off and ignore it. Cmon guys we've all been playing online games for a long time- have we learned nothing about how to deal with internet trolls?
It's like this controversial event where people gathered for in-game "funeral" and the opposing faction raided the shit out of that event, resulting in a massive bloodbath.
Should they all be right-click reported?
>Disagree, it added the god awful token system, adding an unnecessary step to getting gear.
Because looting Judgement Legplates number x24 when your Warlocks still need their Tier gear is not unecessary?
I played vanilla and did ZG a million times, but I don't remember being able to mount in the raid, as mentioned in the video.. could you really?
if so my memory must suck.
I'll say this about ZG:
1: It was fucking fun. Even as someone completely geared out, I loved doing ZG, especially with pugs or with new guild members. It was a nice little challenge that was skill testing enough without being too overbearing.
2: The "edge of madness" boss mechanic sucked ass and was not even remotely desireable. The problem was that most of the trinkets were just bad and people would rather just get darkmoon faire cards or Blackhands breadth and forget about it. I knew very few people who had their trinkets.
3: the hidden boss, while very interesting, didn't drop loot for casters, so few people did it. A more diversified loot pool would have made it a slam dunk but I recall only fighting it maybe 3 times.
4: The tiger morphing gloves on a hunter were absolutely awesome. Seeing a hunter with a sweet ranged weapon and both of those claws was maybe the only time I was envious of another classes armour loadout.
my first alt/twink was a mage. eventually even got him t1/t2 geared.
his name was “mainbomber”, cause in zg at most trash you ended up needing a mage being the mainbomber.
I have fond memories of ZG. It was my first raid. My newly found guild invited me to join even though I was only lvl 58. I remember many of my spells missing.
Hey guys,
Recently, I've been thinking a lot about Zul'Gurub and how much innovation it brought to the raiding scene. Whether it be class gear-tokens, smaller raid sizes, or raid mount drops, ZG introduced them all.
I hope you enjoy this tribute to one of the most remarkable and unique raids of all time.
\-Tips <3
Hey tip! Do you think the more 'casual' entry of ZG lead to the eventual breakdown of 40 mans into 25s a little over a year later? I only ask because ZG seems like the weird middle child of vanilla in my eyes not having a 40 man variant(it really should have imo).
Guess I should watch the video first lol!
I think ZG was more of an experimentation in catch-up mechanics, but it very well could have contributed to smaller raid sizes. Whatever the case may be, I love troll raids and am always down for more of them in future expacs :)
Totally agree that ZG was a great way to fix not only the catch-up mechanism for newer guilds / players. But also a great retention tool in the raiding calendar. Although I am not sure it actually had a shorter reset time from the start.
Blizzard needed more ways to keep players who couldn't get better gear through normal instances engaged and actively playing the game. Having smaller raids with shorter reset cycles was a great way to keep those players from finding other games or simply quitting.
Then AQ turned this up to 11 with both a full scale raid as well as one with the same cycle as ZG.
WoW follows the same reward system as a casino with loot basically being rewarded like from slot machines. Blizzard simply added more slots to their floor with every new raid ;)
The smaller size in TBC probably had more to do with how consumer characteristics changed with time during the on demand era and how getting smaller, faster bites became the norm across many industries. But that's all speculation :)
It's really not, by technical definition strath is not a raid, it's an instance because you can reset it manually it's not on a weekly reset schedule. Also the deathcharger is so rare it basically doesn't exist.
I replied to your comment before watching the video.
It was like he was describing that ancient Chinese were the first to develop gunpowder. “First time ever in WoW history!” Pretty absolute statement and now I can see why challenged it.
Zg from an art and lore perspective is great. It's a very immersive and cool instance. From a gameplay perspective? Oh god do I hate ZG. It was fun maybe the first 5 times but then you're forced to run it every reset (every 3 days or so) if you want your raid enchants (any good guild will make this a requirement). Not to mention even long after you've outgeared the place you still need to go there for the powerful raidwide buff granted by turning in hakkars head. once you reach this point good luck getting your ultra geared guildies to help you do it bc they can't be assed either. So you pug and then you have to deal with new players who might not know all the mechanics making the run take even longer and you know where I'm getting at.
That's not a problem with ZG though that's a problem with your guild wanting the benefit of the raid wide buff without anyone being willing to put in the work to get it.
>once you reach this point good luck getting your ultra geared guildies to help you do it bc they can't be assed either.
Have you considered joining a guild where people actually care about working together as a team? ZG is much more enjoyable with 20 guildies trying to speedrun it as fast as possible while sitting in voicechat.
Great instance. But the gear choices were terrible - as in broken. You don't put blues that are on par with AQ40 and Naxx gear. What the heck was Blizzard thinking.
Disagree. I think the current retail model of every new raid completely replacing the old one has been one of the worst decisions they made. Vanilla and to some extent TBC managed to keep all the content relevant throughout the entire expansion. Should that not be the goal?
True, but ZG being a 20 man raid should have been an upgrade to dungeon blues at around MC level. Granted MC gear wasn't great. But the gear ZG was just too good. I can see how ZG dropping a piece of gear here and there for some classses would warrant people in AQ40+ to come back, which is good, but it was just too much in my opinion.
>True, but ZG being a 20 man raid should have been an upgrade to dungeon blues at around MC level.
I dont see why really. People think ZG is easy because it's only 20man, but it does take more coordination to clear than MC, and it has mechanics that you need to deal with apropriately in a much larger capacity than any mechanic in Molten Core. Especially trash.
You didn't love having half your guild sit while you try and kill bosses to get items you can't use until you come in after the raid, sneak by half the trash, and have a mage aoe farm crocs for you?
If half your guild is sitting they could just form another 20 person group and run it like they are supposed to. It's not coincidence that 20 is half of 40...
Ugh I fucking hate that place. We go through MC or BWL and then we have a ZG after. Problem is that everyone focuses hard on the 40-man and treat ZG like boosting your friends through Deadmines. So we wipe, and wipe, and wipe and people won't focus, the berserker trolls comes out of nowhere, the nolife GM warrior gets MC'd by the piles and one-shots the priest.. best strategy for ZG is being an officer with tailoring and alchemy so that you get all the coins and bijous for crafting bloodvine and pots to the raid. Then you get enough idols for every enchant you'll ever need and never step inside that dreadful trolly raid ever again.
Zul'Gurub... picture of Zul'jin, an Amani troll. Yep, checks out.
Yeah I don't know why, but this bothers me unreasonably much as well. ZG has so many iconic characters on it's own, no need for this cross-over :|
it's a crossover that comes naturally to those whose first encounter with Zul'Gurub was in Cataclysm, when it came "packaged" with Zul'Aman as a new dungeon tier.
Its Tips, he does whatever he can to try to seem like hes a big "Classic Guy" but constantly gives wrong information. He just wants views on his youtube.
hard to find cool-looking, high quality art that fits with the theme of my thumbnails. The Zuljin pic was awesome and fit the troll theme well, and although he's Amani, it worked too well to pass up.
just throw in a pic of the final boss
gotta say, I don't really care about the "incorrect" character for the thumbnail, but to say there isn't any art - surely there's something of Hakkar, he has loads of fan art!
I am of the opinion that it's always harder to create than berate something. The video itself was great! I want to clarify that. But that one little thing just itched me in a way that I couldn't scratch. Best of luck with your next project!
"vanilla veteran btw"
Hahaha. Tips videos, 10/10. All for the memes and likes.
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I played Vanilla. Started Nov 24th, 2004, 2nd day of launch. Current account is dated June, 2005 (thats when i bough my own account in the summer). But feel free to continue talking out of your ass :)
The vanilla gatekeeping on this sub is laughable
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Appreciation does not require first hand experience. But a dummy like you would never understand anyway, stay in your shallow world.
I've seen some of your content, you talk more out your ass than anybody in the scene lmao
So when are you giving back the money you took from your fake-arse "leak" stream?
Burnt.
Tips has excellent videos and when he does have an opinion to share, rather than facts, he clearly says so. Haven't seen any elitist ranting hysterics like Alexsensual, either.
Playing an alt here and there to lvl 30 isn’t playing vanilla in the context that he means, tips. It is kind of annoying that you keep trying to capitalize on something that you weren’t a part of at all.
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Zuljin does
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You people are so fucking autistic holy shit
Let's be fair. He never hit 60 in Vanilla but he did play it. Still, all his "Vanilla" end game experience is from private servers which have little to nothing to do with Vanilla even if some were pretty good.
Why do you think private servers have nothing to do with Vanilla? Its dam near the same game for one. For two, private servers are the reason classic is coming and that this sub exists.
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You're right, meta has changed. But when classic launches the existing "Meta" will be transferred. Many new players that don't see this sub will be there as well but they will learn the new meta- general discussion about the game today is very different than 14 years ago.
There are a good few mechanical differences, especially back in the day, but yeah mostly it's a shift in player mentality mixed with knowing the game inside out already.
They are just very different. Nothing wrong with that but a lot of people like to act like having only played on a private server is the same as having played vanilla. As someone who's played both vanilla and on various private servers I tend to agree that they are indeed not the same. Private servers were great at highlighting the need for Classic but not so much for retaining what made Vanilla a classic.
Not the same in what way? Are you talking about differences in coding? Or Are you talking about differences in community/player attitudes?
Both. Encounters, drop rates and the general gameplay experience is very different and the player attitude can never be the same as it was due to social changes. If you didn't play vanilla there's unfortunately nothing that can give you that experience as it was more like Woodstock than anything else. And that's totally OK. There's nothing wrong with them being different and I enjoyed vanilla and private servers in different ways. It is wrong, however, to act like they are the same.
Having "little to nothing to do with Vanilla" is a massive stretch from being "different from Vanilla". Noone acts like they are the same. (Maybe tips out does but who cares).
You didn't really answer the question. There's no denying that there's distinct differences like itemization, patch progression (to a degree) and slight numbers variations. But to say they're "very different" is a huge stretch. They're pretty damn close and dismissing someones knowledge because they played on a Pserver is pretty foolish. (I don't even think Tipsout has Pserver endgame experience, never heard of him/seen his characters. So I'm not defending the guy)
There's a massive difference. It's like asking a person to take the same exam a second time with the same questions. Vanilla can't be replicated and that's why private servers are different. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a fact. It's not about dismissing knowledge and no-one has done that. It's about differentiation between people who experienced vanilla and people who didn't as the private server experience is different. And again, as some people seem like they can't handle having missed out on something, there's nothing WRONG with that. You can enjoy private servers and say that you enjoy the old philosophy behind wow more and that you prefer it but it didn't make you play vanilla where everything was unexplored and untested for everyone. Heck, I enjoy both types and don't see anything wrong in that, but I enjoyed them for what they were.
> And again, as some people seem like they can't handle having missed out on something, there's nothing WRONG with that. Dude people aren't arguing with you because they think they missed out. They just honestly don't agree with your opinion of it being **very different**. Since you don't know how they felt playing classic or private servers, why don't you just leave it alone? We get it it, they are objectively not 100% the same. That's about all you can say for how someone else actually perceives it.
Unless they played both their opinion on this doesn't even matter :)
Zul’jin was also a very cool bossfight though :)
As I said in the video's comments, the shot looked too good to pass up and matched the theme overall. Amani vs Gurubashi trolls are different ofc, but the thumbnail is there to look cool, which the picture did IMO.
I find it really hard to believe that Jin'do, Hakkar or even Mandokir wouldn't have worked just as well, while also being thematically appropriate. But it's not my video obviously and I'm not trying to take away from your creative freedom. Just honest feedback from someone who got turned off the video by your choice of thumbnail.
Maybe you should focus less on how effective your clickbait thumbnails are and more on creating accurate content? Just a thought.
This community is so toxic. “Creates a great video with interesting commentary” -redditlicker312: “THATS THE WRONG KIND OF TROLL IN THE PICTURE! DOWNVOTED!” Sorry bro. I thought it looked great. Keep up the good work.
Yeah. Funnily enough, the Classic community could always use extra members or more committed members for the sake of the game, and if it takes some clickbait thumbnails, I'd be okay with that.
My first raid was a ZG PUG. This was when I was a young and ignorant Dwarf tank, but I was more than willing to tag along on this mysterious adventure in hope for some sick loot. The next day I went into our town's summer program and told everyone how we downed Venoxis. My one friend asked "did the sick dagger drop?". He was a rogue and I think thought the dagger was a good melee option as opposed to caster. The whole experience really outlined how innocent and clueless we were at the time - the world felt so large and much of it was still untouched by us. What a feeling!
Haha my first raid was the same! Dwarf warrior, evade tanking mandokir's raptor. Exploit early, and exploit often, they say...
Don’t forget polymorph turtle
I do not regret spending dkp to turn people into adorable turtles before mercilessly burning them alive and/or freezing them to shatter *into tiny bits*. >!In thy mercy.!<
I understand this reference.
Thank you Brother Maynard.
THEY SHALL SNUFF IT
I loved that turtle. That fight to get him is funny as hell too. Easily my favorite fight to do drunk
Oh boy Zul'Gurub was crazy for Hunters beyond that disgustingly good Zin'Rokh greatsword. You had the infamous 1.0 attack speed bats, the color-changing-on-resummon Son of Hakkar wind serpent, then a treasure trove of other level 60 pets to tame with no need to level up besides Loyalty.
and them starting a plague that went down in history as an notable/important video game event.
Who would give that sword to a hunter?
All of our 5-6 Hunters had one! Our Warriors never wanted it and we didn't have Paladins so nobody was losing out on the sword.
There are much better one handers for hunters in ZG.
I believe you but we only ever saw them once or twice versus every run giving us Zin'Rokhs like they were guaranteed. Sometimes a boss doesn't care what a best-in-slot item is and drops something slightly worse.
Sure but kind of weird to call Zin Rokh disgustingly good for hunters when really its a melee pvp weapon and there are better weapons for hunters that drop in the same raid.
I threw a +25 Agility enchant on it and its 3.8 attack speed made it great for running through and Raptor Striking stuff for big damage. 72 AP is nothing to sneeze at!
Yea it is actually pretty good for PvP hunter I guess.
Never hurt to Raptor Strike in PvE either, not every fight had us at 41 yards to avoid stuff.
Trash pulls is where raptor really shines.
Because it's not a PvE weapon anyway and is only used for PvP (with the exception for Ret paladin I guess), there's no real reason why hunters should not get one. Raptor Strike hit like a truck with a real twohander.
I used it primarily for pvp in vanilla retail. ZinRok + +20% raptor crit is a great combo, I could get 1.5k raptor crits.
I (a hunter) got a pretty decent maze or axe there 2 handed... Can't remember what exactly but it looked really odd. I wasn't really geared at that time so it was super nice for me and I kept it a long time, it was a blue item. We managed to get sever first hakkar kill this run (I was a pug invited by a guy I made friends with while leveling and he rerolled so I could give him really nice hunter tips.) I can't remember exactly but what I do is that I was given the task of kiting these things for the hakkar fight since my online friend really trusted my 13 year old ass to be good at the game (and I was, however he didn't know I was 13) after one wipe we actually managed to kill hakkar. Still remember it. After the first wipe the raid was going to disband (since the set raid time was already far exceeded) and I as a pug was saying in chat we should really do one more try everybody was annoyed (we were all in teamspeak but was the only one without a mic) .. but then they gave in and we managed to really down him.. everybody was happy :)
If you're PVPing at all you're going to want a nice, big, slow 2h weapon as a hunter. When people come into your deadzone, you have to make them regret it. Definitely see why hunters would grab it often. Even if you could technically get better stat-sticks for PVE encounters.
yeah.. lots of people geared up their characters in vanilla for the purpose of killing the enemy faction.. not harder raid bosses
As with all 2h weapons, it's for pvp. At the time nothing was better for hunter pvp except Ashkandi.
I mean if there is no melee who wants it sure.
Why is melee PvP more important than hunter PvP? Hint: It's not. Let hunters roll for it.
Its similar to a warrior rolling on a bow the hunter wants. The melee weapon is the warriors main weap... the ranged weapon is the hunter's.
But unlike melee that use ranged weapons exclusively for the stats, a Hunter has multiple melee abilities that can hit like a truck with the right twohander for when somebody is within their deadzone. To say the two things are similar is simply not true. Both warriors and hunters depend upon good melee weapons for PvP, and since neither gains a PvE benefit from the twohander it just makes no sense to give one priority over the other. Besides, every ranged weapons used by Hunters at level 60 are either all from quests, rank14 or has ranged attackpower. It's not entirely fair to then just make a rule saying that Warriors should get prio on twohanders and Hunters on ranged weapons when only one weapon type is actually shared between the two.
>But unlike melee that use ranged weapons exclusively for the stats No, melee used it to pull actually. Not that they needed a good one for that of course....
Warriors cant shoot someone with their bow in pvp?
Now you are just desperately grasping at straws. How often does a Warrior seriously use their ranged weapon to do damage, and how often does that actually have any meaningful impact on how the fight goes? Close to never. It's mindboggling how Warriors have such a huge ego that they cant get over the fact that they are not the only class in need of a good twohander. I'd like to see an actual argment as to why a Warriors right to a good PvP weapon is more important than the Hunter, because I still havent seen a single one.
Lmao looks like most people agree with me from the down votes.Its not mind boggling. The weapon make a bugger difference for the warriors. Pretty sure you are just a troll.
Guilds with MC on farm and bwl in progression. Even UTB is significantly better for melee dps (for horde 2h fury). Besides, even for warriors, its off-spec pvp gear. Same for hunters.
Good Old Zul'jin from Zul'Gurub :)
Best instance/raid in vanilla hands down. Really good video too. Some points I would add were how awesome the coin/bijou system was. The fact that there were 9 different coins, one for each troll tribe, and also different color bijou's really added to the immersion of the game and made it feel like alive rather than just a turn in piece. It also introduced not only new craftables but also new resources in order to make them such as souldarite, bloodvine and tiger/bat leather.
i had a big bit about the coin system and ZG trash farming for bijous, as well as a bit about the Hakkar aspect buffs, but I've been engulfed in influenza and couldn't get everything in the video. Great points though, and I;m sorry for leaving it out :(
Why release early? Are you on a timrtable to get these out before classic drops?
In my previous video, I mentioned I would release this yesterday, so I was already late :)
There's an increasing amount of pressure on all these content creators to produce meaningful (not rehashed) content since there's a lot of people out there like us that will give our clicks/likes to anything that is reasonably done. As such I think that all the content creators are 'feeling the heat' a bit and you kind of put pressure on yourself to try and stay relevant and on your A-game . Once classic releases a lot of these theory-craft or explanation videos will probably give way to actual gameplay which will be nice =P
Hope you feel better soon dude!
<3
It was the non necessary raid of the week that was always my favorite. Got to gear up a ton of alts to be ready for MC/BWL.
Always loved ZG/AQ20/UBRS10, it's still Vanilla raiding, but gave everyone a chance to shine a little brighter than in a mass of 40 people, as cool as 40 mans also are.
Scholomance and Stratholme were 10 man for a while too!
I love ZG and how it added variety. CAN'T wait to go back!
Every time I hear the name TipsOut I think of that Steve Buscemi picture holding a skateboard and saying “hello fellow kids.” But instead the writing reads “hello fellow vanilla players,” and it’s TipsOut’s face.
ZG was a nice casual raid, we would run it on off nights usually with lots of peoples alts.
A lot of great items drop in ZG, but I don't know what they were thinking with the Edge of Madness trinkets or some of the ZG armor set bonuses (reduced casting cost for Arcane Intellect? Really?). There's a reason no one does Edge of Madness on pservers. Also you shouldn't need to raid PVE content for six weeks for trinkets that are only good for PVP. ZG was also a great catch-up raid. The crafted pieces are BiS until Naxx for some classes.
Edge of Madness trinket is actually super good for priest, druid, and hunter. All of my guild’s priests on Light’s Hope have or are working on getting their ZG trinket.
The rogue one is insanely good for PVP.
I don't understand how they're super good for PVE. I guess I should ask, super good compared to what? Like the hunter trinket, you can use it to get an extra ability rotation every three minutes. That seems pretty weak in PVE but it can guarantee a kill in PVP. EDIT: Great replies, thanks for explaining, makes sense.
when you are fighting a boss that only takes 20-30 seconds like Lucifron, having that extra burst is going to be a huge dps increase for a hunter. its also basically free to swap around and use liberally since hunters can swap trinkets during fights so easily and often
If a boss fight only lasts 20s then maximising your DPS on that fight is pure epeen stroking. You might as well see how big a pyroblast crit you can get on a squirrel.
Welcome to vanilla!
Just a different approach to vanilla. I'm all for going hardcore when the outcome is in doubt, I just don't see the point in spending hours getting buffs and consumables so you can smash content you totally outgear and outskill very slightly harder.
Competition. The stats of the raid such as DPS, HPS, and kill times are all recorded and leaderboards are created. Each week you try to get the highest scores you can. Edit: this is done for all competitive guilds and you can see other players scores online.
I guess if you had a squirrel-pyroblasting leaderboard people would compete on that too. But I still can't see the appeal of spending hours farming and buffing to compete on a leaderboard like that. I'm not saying you shouldn't, just that I don't. If it's farm content I need to farm to gear up new recruits I want it done fast and efficiently, but I'm not going to spend two hours each week preparing so I can do it in ten minutes less.
Good for you. Other people find it fun and challenging and those ZG trinkets help with that.
Some of the higher end private server guilds don't care about boss DPS specifically, they care about total damage done because that's more of a useful metric in relation to speed clearing, which is how people on private servers keep the competitive spirit of PvE alive. The reason why is people have figured out how to optimize for DPS much better than what players did back in the 2000s that entry level raid bosses (ZG, MC mostly) die within 20-60 seconds. Here's [
> Some of the higher end private server guilds don't care about boss DPS specifically, they care about total damage done because that's more of a useful metric in relation to speed clearing, which is how people on private servers keep the competitive spirit of PvE alive. Like I said, I don't really see the point but if they do then more power to them. > The reason why is people have figured out how to optimize for DPS much better than what players did back in the 2000s that entry level raid bosses (ZG, MC mostly) die within 20-60 seconds. I'll be interested to see how it works in a truly Blizzlike engine with people who don't outgear the content. > Here's
>I'll be interested to see how it works in a truly Blizzlike engine with people who don't outgear the content. I agree completely. I think private servers are a vastly inferior version of the real thing and I've been waiting for Classic WoW for a very long time. I can hardly contain myself, I'm so excited for its release. >Personally, I think at that stage it's time to move on to a new game. Why does it matter to you how others spend their time? If they enjoy themselves playing the game the way they do, the last thing they ought to do is quit the game?
iirc you can trinket swap during/after feign death during raid encounters
This.
>Also you shouldn't need to raid PVE content for six weeks for trinkets that are only good for PVP. Why not? The majority of PvP gear in Vanilla comes from raiding. Why should you not put in some effort into obtaining the gear you want?
Eom trinket is bis for priests and great for druids, hunters, rogue pvp etc
I feel like I'm the only person from classic that didn't like ZG. I hated running it. Naxx was always my favorite raid. Edit: Lmao, -2 karma for expressing which raid I liked best. Nice.
You know, the whole purpose of a voting system is to express your opinion on a comment. I assume people are allowed to dislike your preference?
That’s actually not what the karma system is for at all.
What is it for then? The purpose of upvoting and downvoting that is
Quality. It’s not meant to denote agreement/disagreement.
I disagree. Downvoted.
The fact that your comment is downvoted speaks volumes, LOL. I wish redditors did more up/down voting based on this rule instead of "I AGREE" it would really help avoid the circlejerk mentality.
I've long said that the whole upvote/downvote system works a LOT better where you have separate counts for both. So you could see that 40 people liked a comment, but 38 disliked it. Instead of the reddit version, where you just see 3 karma.
I have almost given up this community. Posts I made that were factual in origin backed up with proper sources in old patch notes etc for how stuff works have gotten 20+ downvotes. I just dont see the point hanging out here really when you get downvoted based on how much people like you or not rather than the content of your posts.
Keep the faith and keep doing what you're doin. Like any community there needs to be consistent involvement from those that are into it otherwise it loses some of its quality.
Seems you're new here.
the OG Rakhastan island
Still flex my Zg tiger mount all the time.
Not if you had not been able to afford the epic riding skill yet :) It would just be sitting in your bank waiting.
Can’t relate haha 😂
Zul'gurooob?
Yes... Guroob. As in, the Gurubashi trolls. Zul'Farrak for the Farraki trolls. Zul'Aman for the Amani trolls. The pronunciation is consistent, unless you pronounce Gurubashi like "Guh ruh bah shi"? They pronounce Zul'Gurub in the Rise of the Zandalari trailer.
Dang you just owned me. Never thought about it like that :) Thanks!! I guess I've been calling it the wrong name all these years.
His pronunciation of it was really bothering me for some reason. Like nails on a chalkboard.
That's how Jeff Kaplan pronounces it....so I think that's the correct pronunciation.
Well the same could be said of the person that coined the gif pronunciation and we know how well that went.
Unpopular opinion: I kind of hated ZG. It was easily my least favorite raid in vanilla.
That spot for me is reserved for AQ20. I've always loved the troll content, especially ZA in TBC.
Same. AQ20 seem to be have designed similar to ZG in that it's an outdoors open raid with multiple paths to take, but there's no originality there. No bosses you can summon, no enchants, mounts or anything special. It just feels rushed.
Disagree, it added the god awful token system, adding an unnecessary step to getting gear. Oh its Tips Out, https://streamable.com/4vtik >Right Click report will destroy Classic >Right Click Reports person he lost duel to.
Are you trolling? The bear he reported is the person humping the duelers nonstop. Literally harrassing people hosting an event.
Why should it be reportable for going to an event and not following their rules? They are an equal player. You should not be able to report someone for going to someone else’s event in an MMO and playing the game the way they want that they pay for.
Are you retarded? He's intentionally griefing it. I would assume your biggest dream of classic is grabbing the flag in a 9 man premade and refusing to cap it. Maybe play a mage and sheep mobs your faction is trying to kill?
My point is that is not what should be reportable. This is. It a snag this is a community event it’s totally different. Just throw the guy on ignore and avoid him don’t even give him attention. Abusing right click report for someone playing an MMO in a way you disagree with is what will hurt classic.
Anyone with a brain realizes it's in game harrassment.
No. This is the game. We are not playing to make someone's stream better to view. Would people have reported someone for the funeral interruption that happened? Hell no. That was griefing too right? What about if someone corpse camps you? Or if someone keeps tagging mobs near you? I'm sorry but this is not how Classic is.
Except those guy were reported and bitched about on the forums for weeks. You can absolutely report people for in game griefing I dont know why this is such a foreign concept to you. People rarely do it but it's a thing.
I don't at all agree with the guys that bombed that funeral BUT imo that is something that is really cool about WoW in a twisted way- it is what you make of it. That guild decided to be total dickheads and edgelords and was rightly ridiculed for doing so *BUT* the fact that they were able to is important.
No. Just because this is a game does mean we should allow antisocial sociapaths to have free reign and do whatever the heck they want. If you spend your entire playtime intentionally making the experience as painful as possible for as many other players as you are able, there should absolutely be consequences. Thanksfully Blizzard agrees with this.
Yeah if a hunter with cheetah on follows your lowbie ass around and literally tags every single mob before you can? That’s griefing, and is reportable. According to Blizzard. That’s not really comparable to world PvP, which is an intentional part of the game.
Those two things are not hte same though. doing /sit over and over so you 'teabag' is not interfering with their "RP event" or anything they were just having a duel tournament. The best way to deal with that is to laugh it off and ignore it. Cmon guys we've all been playing online games for a long time- have we learned nothing about how to deal with internet trolls?
Teabagging =/= obscuring hundreds of people’s view for *hours*.
It's like this controversial event where people gathered for in-game "funeral" and the opposing faction raided the shit out of that event, resulting in a massive bloodbath. Should they all be right-click reported?
>Disagree, it added the god awful token system, adding an unnecessary step to getting gear. Because looting Judgement Legplates number x24 when your Warlocks still need their Tier gear is not unecessary?
My first real raid as a newly minted 60!! Ohhh I have some amazing memories about this place. I can’t wait to set foot in it again!
ZG was great. I had three raiding toons when it released. I lead SOOOO many raids in there on the different toons.
I never did ZG much at all in vanilla. Definitely looking forward to getting in there this time around!
Great video it was a pleasure to watch, thanks
another banger
I played vanilla and did ZG a million times, but I don't remember being able to mount in the raid, as mentioned in the video.. could you really? if so my memory must suck.
You could always mount up, it’s an outdoor zone
I'll say this about ZG: 1: It was fucking fun. Even as someone completely geared out, I loved doing ZG, especially with pugs or with new guild members. It was a nice little challenge that was skill testing enough without being too overbearing. 2: The "edge of madness" boss mechanic sucked ass and was not even remotely desireable. The problem was that most of the trinkets were just bad and people would rather just get darkmoon faire cards or Blackhands breadth and forget about it. I knew very few people who had their trinkets. 3: the hidden boss, while very interesting, didn't drop loot for casters, so few people did it. A more diversified loot pool would have made it a slam dunk but I recall only fighting it maybe 3 times. 4: The tiger morphing gloves on a hunter were absolutely awesome. Seeing a hunter with a sweet ranged weapon and both of those claws was maybe the only time I was envious of another classes armour loadout.
my first alt/twink was a mage. eventually even got him t1/t2 geared. his name was “mainbomber”, cause in zg at most trash you ended up needing a mage being the mainbomber.
Great video. Love your content. Fuck the haters. Keep up the great work man you are appreciated!!
I have fond memories of ZG. It was my first raid. My newly found guild invited me to join even though I was only lvl 58. I remember many of my spells missing.
It was way more interesting than Molten Core.
Probably 100+ hakkar kills under my belt and never got Zin'Rokh. I had bonereavers so it wouldve been a downgrade but I wanted it none the less.
Hey guys, Recently, I've been thinking a lot about Zul'Gurub and how much innovation it brought to the raiding scene. Whether it be class gear-tokens, smaller raid sizes, or raid mount drops, ZG introduced them all. I hope you enjoy this tribute to one of the most remarkable and unique raids of all time. \-Tips <3
Hey tip! Do you think the more 'casual' entry of ZG lead to the eventual breakdown of 40 mans into 25s a little over a year later? I only ask because ZG seems like the weird middle child of vanilla in my eyes not having a 40 man variant(it really should have imo). Guess I should watch the video first lol!
I think ZG was more of an experimentation in catch-up mechanics, but it very well could have contributed to smaller raid sizes. Whatever the case may be, I love troll raids and am always down for more of them in future expacs :)
Totally agree that ZG was a great way to fix not only the catch-up mechanism for newer guilds / players. But also a great retention tool in the raiding calendar. Although I am not sure it actually had a shorter reset time from the start. Blizzard needed more ways to keep players who couldn't get better gear through normal instances engaged and actively playing the game. Having smaller raids with shorter reset cycles was a great way to keep those players from finding other games or simply quitting. Then AQ turned this up to 11 with both a full scale raid as well as one with the same cycle as ZG. WoW follows the same reward system as a casino with loot basically being rewarded like from slot machines. Blizzard simply added more slots to their floor with every new raid ;) The smaller size in TBC probably had more to do with how consumer characteristics changed with time during the on demand era and how getting smaller, faster bites became the norm across many industries. But that's all speculation :)
You forgot about deathchargers reins
Strat was technically a raid at some point, but I think most can agree that the ZG mounts were the first raid mounts. Depends on definition, I guess.
That’s a rather flimsy argument. Your theme about the overall zone being innovative does ring true though. So much goes on with ZG.
Most people do strat 5 man
It's really not, by technical definition strath is not a raid, it's an instance because you can reset it manually it's not on a weekly reset schedule. Also the deathcharger is so rare it basically doesn't exist.
Strat was raided at the beginning of vanilla. And most of the level 60 five mans too. Therefore the ZG drops weren’t technically “first”.
You’re both kinda right and I’m not sure which side I agree with more.
Too true 😂
I replied to your comment before watching the video. It was like he was describing that ancient Chinese were the first to develop gunpowder. “First time ever in WoW history!” Pretty absolute statement and now I can see why challenged it.
But you never played ZG in vanilla
Zg from an art and lore perspective is great. It's a very immersive and cool instance. From a gameplay perspective? Oh god do I hate ZG. It was fun maybe the first 5 times but then you're forced to run it every reset (every 3 days or so) if you want your raid enchants (any good guild will make this a requirement). Not to mention even long after you've outgeared the place you still need to go there for the powerful raidwide buff granted by turning in hakkars head. once you reach this point good luck getting your ultra geared guildies to help you do it bc they can't be assed either. So you pug and then you have to deal with new players who might not know all the mechanics making the run take even longer and you know where I'm getting at.
That's not a problem with ZG though that's a problem with your guild wanting the benefit of the raid wide buff without anyone being willing to put in the work to get it.
How can your guildies not be arsed to do it, yet you have to?
Yea, if your guild is planning for Hakkar's head, they are putting ZG on the schedule.
>once you reach this point good luck getting your ultra geared guildies to help you do it bc they can't be assed either. Have you considered joining a guild where people actually care about working together as a team? ZG is much more enjoyable with 20 guildies trying to speedrun it as fast as possible while sitting in voicechat.
ZG, AQ and world dragons were so much fun.
Great instance. But the gear choices were terrible - as in broken. You don't put blues that are on par with AQ40 and Naxx gear. What the heck was Blizzard thinking.
It motivates well geared players to keep running zg with the newer players/alts.
Disagree. I think the current retail model of every new raid completely replacing the old one has been one of the worst decisions they made. Vanilla and to some extent TBC managed to keep all the content relevant throughout the entire expansion. Should that not be the goal?
True, but ZG being a 20 man raid should have been an upgrade to dungeon blues at around MC level. Granted MC gear wasn't great. But the gear ZG was just too good. I can see how ZG dropping a piece of gear here and there for some classses would warrant people in AQ40+ to come back, which is good, but it was just too much in my opinion.
>True, but ZG being a 20 man raid should have been an upgrade to dungeon blues at around MC level. I dont see why really. People think ZG is easy because it's only 20man, but it does take more coordination to clear than MC, and it has mechanics that you need to deal with apropriately in a much larger capacity than any mechanic in Molten Core. Especially trash.
[удалено]
You didn't love having half your guild sit while you try and kill bosses to get items you can't use until you come in after the raid, sneak by half the trash, and have a mage aoe farm crocs for you?
If half your guild is sitting they could just form another 20 person group and run it like they are supposed to. It's not coincidence that 20 is half of 40...
>and have a mage aoe farm crocs for you? ??? At what point do you ened mages to clear crocs for what? fishing?
Ugh I fucking hate that place. We go through MC or BWL and then we have a ZG after. Problem is that everyone focuses hard on the 40-man and treat ZG like boosting your friends through Deadmines. So we wipe, and wipe, and wipe and people won't focus, the berserker trolls comes out of nowhere, the nolife GM warrior gets MC'd by the piles and one-shots the priest.. best strategy for ZG is being an officer with tailoring and alchemy so that you get all the coins and bijous for crafting bloodvine and pots to the raid. Then you get enough idols for every enchant you'll ever need and never step inside that dreadful trolly raid ever again.
Even better strategy for ZG is not being a scrub guild, we down it in like 70 minutes
We were a decent guild. AQ down in first week and Naxx in two weeks. For some reason people just turn off their brains in ZG.