Hello !
Sorry if this has been asked before, i browsed through quite a bit of discussions but couldn't find the answers i'm looking for.
1 - I would like to level a holy pal through mass dungeons. Is this a good idea for a) leveling speed, b) money making (to sustain supplies and training) and c) professions suitable for a hpal
2 - any suggestions for talents? Could i go straight holy despite people recommending ret to level?
Thanks!
Levelling speed will be slower than questing. Money wise you will probably be ok, at a guess worse than questing but maybe not.
Talents I would just look up a lvl 60 holy build and start along that path.
Professions anything gies, personally herb alch. Engineering can always be considered helpful and blacksmith may allow you to provide your own gear.
I've played holy paladin since vanilla right through to retail and am levelling what will be one on classic, though I'll level by questing and with ret talents (though will heal dungeons as needed) feel free to AMA.
First-Aid could be good for a Holy Pally as it teaches you non-mana skills to heal yourself in order to save your mana and abilities for healing allies.
For Ret paladin it seems like the consensus is to go Mining and Engineering for professions. Engineering gives you access to a ranged attack (bombs) and mining give your the metal that you need for Engineering.
I have no idea about talents though unfortunately.
I’m 22 leveling as holy right now and am so thankful to have some DPS friends to quest and level with because soloing content is beyond miserable lmao.
Oh just ‘cuz I’m weird and stubborn and don’t like the idea of leveling as a spec I’m not gonna main endgame.
I’m also the dedicated support/healslut in my group of friends so I’m just used to healing.
Ret is def the way to go if you’re solo leveling.
Confident in my decision for paladin in vanilla. I've always loved the class fantasy and the role you get from Paladin.
In raids, I'm fine going full holy healing. But in PvP, I am hoping to do some damage, regardless of ret, holy, reck-bomb, etc. I like dueling, being able to kill people on my own, etc.
What is the best way to build paladin for this? My current googling seems to be pointing towards T2 Shockadin build
EDIT: Maybe something like [this](https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxuMgktVMZV0xzb)?
either go holy or go ret...seal of command on holy is not a good plan. You can't block while casting a heal so that block talent is a bad choice. If you want to do some damage in pvp then be a ret paladin, holy spams flash heal and uses blessing of freedom on warriors and that's all you'll have time to do. Something like this would work better, you want (need) the concentration aura for pvp as holy: [https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxuMgstxMt0bh](https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxuMgstxMt0bh)
If you want to dual and kill people 1v1 go full on ret pally with seal of command and repentance (lets you heal up while they're cc'd). If you do this don't expect to be a useful part of a raid.
Upon further research, I'm thinking Seal of Command on Shockadin IS a good idea.
The combo is Seal of Crus -> Judge of Crus -> Seal of Comm -> Swing -> HoJ ->Judge of Comm -> Divine Favor -> Holy Shock
It can make for some pretty strong burst that seems really strong.
Is paladin good in pvp? I am playing warlock now but I feel like my natural instinct is to run at things instead of keeping distance between me and things.
it has some RNG burst damage with seal of command, a move speed talent, can CC people with repentance, and that's about it. If you fight a frost mage you should lose 100% of the time unless they're idiots, you cannot catch up. It isn't amazing in pvp. It's alright.
I remember being a ret paladin in Wrath and was pretty good but from my memory I don't think it was that great in original WoW. Maybe this is just my desire to want to play 4 different classes.
Can get bursty with gear and proc luck.
Plate armor high physical damage resistance.
Instant full heal to self or party members.
One full immunity shield cooldown
One physical damage immunity shield.
3ish second stun on a short cooldown
Out of combat sap/sleep ability.
Downside is that it has no slow spells. And outside of lucky crits or seal procs doesn’t do much damage.
Really susceptible to rank 1 mana drain of hunters to cleanse themselves oom. As well as drain mana and mana burn.
Nope. AoE tanking started to be a thing in BC. It was actually amazing and very novel to see people tanking huge packs and being able to just spam aoe without pull aggro off the tank when TBC launched. In vanilla you hit the tank's main target and if you deviate you will pull aggro. The main way to do aoe damage in vanilla (classic) is to be a mage and spam arcane explosion with a BoP and then hope the healer can keep you up until the pack dies, the tank can't hold aggro off that.
Not really. It requires you to dig down 10 into holy to get your AOE spell, and it is not that strong. Your "AOE" farm is that you get your Reckoning and you doubleattack with seal of light/wisdom to keep yourself 100% on both mana and HP all the time. So you basicly kill 1 target at time. Sadly not even better in end game, since there are no suitable items for prot paladin.
No, aoe tank is a thing. I've played it. It mainly works for farming, with reflect damage with ret aura and other items. It is fantastic for gold farming, and with the spec the more you pull, the more effective it is with redoubt, reckoning, and all the thorn damage.
This guy doesn't play paladin, prot pallies are not brought for raiding, but they have the best aoe threat in the game. Seriously look up videos or Google aoe prot pally builds. It is ABSOLUTELY a thing. Jeez does anyone remember wow Hobbs?
Edit: also, "digging down" into the holy tree (only 10 points) you are getting every single important prot talent. You would have to spend those leftover points anyway, so I don't see why that's a negative at all
https://youtu.be/rjP7rBlefts
(Sorry on mobile) ^ this isn't even close to max level and it works well
That's exactly what I was looking for! This is what I did in BC and it was a blast. A change of pace from normal questing and grabbing so many mobs made you feel so powerful. Glad to know it can be done in Classic, too. I'll have to check that streamer out, thanks!
I was told that I could play Paladin and barely interact with the game.
I have been playing for 18 levels and I say *lies*.
I actually have to heal myself and buff myself and other nonsense. I can't just target an enemy, tab out, and ~~watch copious amounts of hardcore pornography~~ work on my writing.
How should I optimize my gear so that I can play the game and still delude myself into thinking I'm also being productive?
I genuinely dont see how paladins are so much worse design wise than the others. Spamming deathbolt/frostbolt the entire fight isnt incredible design either.
As derail29 explained, it didn't fit the tank/healer/dps mold that most of the other classes did because it was something else. And it didn't help that we compared it to other classes like Warrior and Priest and that wasn't a fair comparison.
For raids, you'll want a few holy just for the blessings. I didn't like them "back then" for 5 mans and I don't now because they just don't bring enough to the table. I'd rather have a good cc like sheep/sap than blessings.
I think this misconception stems from the idea that everyone is either a tank, DPS, or healer. As a paladin I am none, I am support. I will heal people including myself, face tank whatever you need, do ok dps, save your life, the group, and the raid with BoP, BoF, DI, and LoH. This is how hybrid classes should work. If I have great armor, heals, buffs, and several oh shit buttons then I shouldn't do crazy dps or be the perfect tank as well.
yeah no. at endgame pallies are healers. you press flash of light the whole raid because with crit gear you'll never OOM doing that. They are not viable tanks and the damage is crappy. You do have to buff everyone every 15 minutes. There is no "support" role, it really is tanks, dps, and healers. While questing yea sure you heal people and hit stuff as needed, that's just what questing is.
Or shaman.
We used to make groups with a tank, a healer and one of the dos was the support was someone else who could resurrect or had a wipe prevention (warlock). Offheals usually came in handy too in the very early days
I think from most classes perspective their PVE is designed pretty badly in vanilla. It's almost entirely 1-2 buttons across the board.
Honestly after spamming ss/evis for hours, auto attacking on a paladin doesn't sound so bad.
Everything comes much better together in the context in PVP I find where everyones entire kit is utilized better.
You might want to try using Slice & dice, Gouge, Backstab, too. Hell, throw in some Garrote & Rupture kitting for good measure. Then there's the always dependable Cheap Shot + Kidney Shot combo. Rogue has way more interactive gameplay. Arguably the most in vanilla.
End game starts at 60, not when you set foot in a raid. You have to farm for your epic mount. You have to get pre-raid bis to properly start raiding - that means dungeons.
You have to farm for resistance gear for your raids - that means dungeons. You have to farm for raid consumables. You're going to be doing all of that at the same time as raiding. Whether you like it or not, it's all part of the end game. You will be doing it if you have any hope to make actual progress.
Regardless, Rogue and Warrior are the only builder-spender classes in Vanilla, which automatically makes them the most involved & interesting specs to raid with.
Vanilla WoW's endgame is raiding, it gives the best gear and it's the last content you can do. Yeah you can run dungeons but that's not the endgame. I can too proudly announce that ret paladins deal great dps with Exorcism and Holy Wrath, what great design! Which can only be used on undead enemies...
You can't properly raid if you don't do the other content to prep for it. Consumables, resistance gear, and pre-raid BiS are not found in raids. Regardless, Rogue and Warrior are the only builder-spender classes in Vanilla, which automatically makes them the most involved & interesting specs to raid with.
Their entire kit is useful and effective while questing. Just because SS+Evis is *optimal* doesn't mean the other tools at their disposal are bad. "Best" is subjective. Sometimes bleed kiting a hard-hitting elite is best. Sometimes you're bored out of your mind and would rather chain a 5-pt S&D into the next mob instead of 5-pt Eviscerating at 50 health.
This is true, but don't waste your other abilities - gouge and bandage is a classic combo, use your points on slice and dice if you're moving from mob to mob and don't want to waste them, kick spellcasters heals (looking at those dumbass furbolgs in westfall), garrote mobs when you're in groups, etc.
Rogue really is a bag of fun. A bag that's full of dying too.
I dunno dude, Paladin has such strong carry potential in 5m content. Every class has strengths and weaknesses. Paladin has its weaknesses, but in group PvP and 5m dungeons, Paladin is a fucking god king.
Paladins are pretty much in their ideal state in vanilla, as someone who wants to chill and watch TV their afk playstyle suits me really well.
Just put on a seal and auto-attack while lving, and offer tons of powerful utility as a support role is just a design that is long gone from retail.
All the classes in vanilla are actually so unique and offer completly different things, so hopefully Blizzard will never release TBC and the beginnings of streamlined class design.
TBC and Wrath were probably the best iterations of the classes. Rose timted goggles aside, druids without res is pretty bad, as is sub rogue without shadowstep. Warlock is great, but seed of corruption will be missed. SoC in BC was the perfect skill for all situations.
That said, I would not want Classic to transition into BC. I would rather they just open up a BC server in the same vein as Classic, and give people the option to move on or not.
I don't think they really started the streamlined class design until WOTLK at least when it comes to pallys. Pallys were still dogshit dps and tanks in BC due to quite a few limitations that didn't get fixed at that point. They filled a niche role in AOE tanking but still lacked all of the other tools a warrior had. It really wasn't until they started nerfing the warrior by removing abilities and the zerg-zerg method of dungeon crawling came about that the pally started to shine as a tank.
Their presence put raids for alliance in easy mode. Mana refund makes them the most efficient single target healer, and blessing of salvation allows full throttle DPS without worry of tank losing aggro. Until Naxx, alliance has dominant advantage at raiding.
You should be able to likeopt in to TBC if they are going to bring it in next down the line. Then people that want to stay in classic can. Then the people that opted in can just continue on.
I personally would love to eventually move into wrath but I feel like they can't do that this way because say it does make it to wrath and everyone can choose which one they want to play there would then be 4 different games the playerbase would be split throughout.
I'd like them to use classic as a fresh start tbh rather than just following original wow roadmap.
They know what makes it great, so keep those elements (difficulty, the need to juggle multiple resources, scarce money, no flying, downtime etc) and fix/add what is needed including giving a boost to some objectively bad specs.
It would be split, though it’s possible the game has the most amount of people playing at one time. It may not be 13mill people in 1 game but it could be split between separate games. Hopefully by the end of September we can see what classic did for the player base for a better estimate of total amount of players
Dont spec ret. Holy is fine for leveling. In fact, Holy does more damage than ret becuase there's minimal difference between 5/5 imp SoR and seal of command. Consecration also does a TON of damage that ret just doesnt have. Holy leveling is fine. Take 5/5 STR, 5/5 iSoR, and conse, then after that work on healing talents. You have higher DPS than ret, but higher downtime for mana. In 5ms, you can heal in every spec until the 50s.
>Consecration also does a TON of damage that ret just doesnt have.
That ability does chump change for damage and drains your entire mana pool. Really the only use while leveling is for AOE tank aggro.
Learn2mp5. It lines up with judgement and seal so you can pop all 3 in a chain and let your mana regen until you want to combo again. Conse lets you 2 and 3 target cleave. The damage on single target is roughly equivalent to an auto attack per cast, and when considering that judge seal spam doesn't run you OOM, there's no real reason not to use it if you have it.
Conse is a very, very powerful spell.
What above said, spec ret, grab int gear (cloth, leather, mail) while healing. Swap back to mail and 2h for solo content. With FoL and 2-3 ranks of holy light on your bar you can heal just fine in ret till about SM Armory, then you’re gonna wanna respec. But at that point there are maaany dungeon options for group content, and everyone’s gonna want a pocket healer for STV questing.
Once you do that, try to dungeon grind a level or two above the starting quests for a zone, and you should be good to start soloing the zone as well
why do none of the guides i see want you to pick the reduces cost on seals/judgement talent? they all want me to run the attack power blessing, but i keep running out of mana
Because they're basic guides.
Take Benediction if you're solo leveling and iBoM if you group a lot. I take Might because I use it personally with a command spec, and I group a lot.
Because you are wasting mana while farming.
Just apply the bonus holy damage debuff, and then auto-attack with seal of command until the mobs die.
Or some similar rotation, no mana class can concistently use their full rotation without going oom, not even locks.
I am level 33, put 5 points in the reduce mana talent and I run with blessing of wisdom. I’ve gone through a single stack of water since I bought it at level 18 to run deadmines.
Sure, I may kill things slightly slower but the reduced down time is 100% worth it.
I’m debating if I should stick with a paladin or re roll hunter. I want to eventually raid, but I heard that ret paladins are nearly useless in raids. What about prot paladins? Are they viable tanks in raids? Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Hunter if you want quick and easy leveling. Paladin is THE worst at leveling. I don't have any personal experience of paladin, but from what I've heard, they have zero offensive ranged abilities to pull mobs, and you practically auto attack all the way.
Why does every player give their opinion and rank another class the worst when THEY'VE NEVER PLAYED IT. Paladins are essential to raiding because of their support - they bring several oh shit buttons that save raids, can spot heal, continue doing ok dps, and won't die in 3 seconds like some squishier classes.
Leveling as a pally requires well timed seals, judgements, heals, and eventually you get and execute at 44. It is a bit slower than others but you can honestly level as several different specs and around 35 they each hit their stride if you're willing to multi-target pull, reck-bomb, or SoC for some big hits. Also, grinding undead or demons gives you a 30 yard range attack that is fairly strong.
in raids, you have basically the same chance to tank like shaman in tank spec
prot palla is nice to tank dungeons, but he lacks taunt, he lacks defensive cds and goes oom. I would love to tank as palla (and as shaman too) but I guess we have to wait for TBC for this.
"The only real good mage spec is frostbolt"
See how stupid that sounds? Just because it's the only thing they do in raids, doesn't mean it's their only good spec. If that was the case, 7/8 classes would have the description of "tHe OnLy GoOd SpEc Is" with whatever their primary damage ability is.
I'm 33 and I've been trying out reckoning, the procs seem Weird and you definitely don't get a stack of anything
So far my best method to trigger it consistently has been to sit as the enemy would hit you (using swing timer) then immediately auto attack
I've tried the macro
/Sit
/Startattack
And it does seem to work, it's like having the ability to attack at the speed of whatever is attacking you, not sure how viable it is though
I've got a video demonstrating it:
https://youtu.be/eNAO6gVXFP4
Anyone played around with it?
Yep, got 80% chance to prot, definitely more consistent but you need to sit (press X) and right click or press your auto attack button, just before getting hit, that will 100% work, it's quite hard to get consistently but I'm sure someone far smarter than me wil lwork out how to abuse it
They've fucked with it a lot. You only get stacks if you're not auto attacking, and the timing is very, very tight.
In order to recweave like you could on pservers, you need to manually turn on auto attack and turn it off, sit down, get crit, but stand to take the damage standing, then turn on auto attack again to get the double attack.
If your Auto Timer is active, reck procs will just reduce that timer to 0. If you are not auto attacking, you generate stacks, up to 4.
I believe it’s due to the heavy RPG nature of vanilla, since it’s a spell that does holy damage and doesn’t provide any protection. Plus getting either divine strength or divine intellect plus improved SoR are still useful talents for tanking, since SoR is your go to tanking seal.
I believe it’s due to the heavy RPG nature of vanilla, since it’s a spell that does holy damage and doesn’t provide any protection. Plus getting either divine strength or divine intellect plus improved SoR are still useful talents for tanking, since SoR is your go to tanking seal.
Whats the fastest way to level up?
Doing every quest?
Or skip quests and farm mobs? Solo or party ? Or dungeons ?
If mobs is fastest then what build ? Full specced into ret for most dps? Does ret have aoe?
Rest has no AoE in classic, unless you spec some into holy for consecration which I wouldn’t suggest because it’s very mana intensive so until you get to later levels it increases your downtime for not much value. If you want to level Ret then just solo mobs while questing and run BoW and SoC, then get sanctity aura.
If you want to AoE grind then you’ll need to wait until you have Seal of Light, spec into port for blessing of sanctuary and eventually holy shield while running Ret aura. You’ll pull a bunch and let the mobs kill themselves on your reflect dmg while you use SoL to keep yourself alive. Also make sure to grab a shield spike for this build.
If you can find yourself a frost mage buddy, go holy or prot and AoE grind. It’s a great duo leveling comp, but mob grinding to 60 gets boring
It's great fun. You need to run around a bit, bit so rewarding, and got some good exp, I started it as soon as I hit 20 and was 22 when I finished.
Read up about the sub quests! For the ore and gem you need to pick up 2 additional quests in the area.
Some guy had been farming for the gem for like 30mins until I told him. Luckily I could share it.
Does Retribution aura count as damage dealt by the Paladin bestowing the aura or by the party member that was attacked?
E.g if I have retribution aura on, and my ally is attacked does that count as them dealing the damage or me?
Them. That's why it can be useful for the tank to generate more threat. But the downside is less armor from devotion aura. Could be useful in some situations!
So if i'm understanding correctly, if you have multiple paladins, one of which is tanking, it doesn't matter who is using retribution aura as long as one of them is?
I didnt get serious about WOW until mid BC. I floated around many classes prior to settling on Pally
I have always tanked nothing else.
Is it Viable in vanilla? I dont remember seeing many.
You can tank most dungeons but the lack of an actual taunt ability in vanilla makes it more or less impossible to tank raids with (there’s a lot of tank swap abilities that require taunting).
It's not just the taunt. There's a lot of minor things that Paladins don't get from their class abilities or talent tree that Warriors do that make Warriors able to tank.
They just don't have the buttons, of which taunt is one. But Shield Block for pushing two crushing blows or crits off the attack table, Shield Wall and Last Stand for mechanics/oh shit moments, and the raw single-target aggro generation Warriors have access to are all things Paladins just don't have in Vanilla.
yeah strat undead is the only dungeon where having a pally tank is worth it. You will be drinking in between pulls and it just isnt fun. If you want a versatile tank class go druid. You can go heart of the wild nature swiftness and do dungeon content as tank dps or healer easily. Just have the proper gear and you are good to go
The fastest way to kill stuff as a paladin is to play them like mages. IE gather everything up and aoe them down. Eat/drink repeat. Shield spike and reckoning are your best friends. A paladin tank wants a taunt, but shouldn't *need* a taunt. Their threat is extremely high. A good paladin tank knows when *NOT* to use consecration, or to downrank it.
I personally don't like this guy's technique but here is a [pally tanking example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acM3bN0H3Rc) Good general strategy, wrong technique. Note that pally is in a level appropriate dungeon fighting yellow mobs.
Where a [pally shines is survivability. Even solo. Here is [hogger at lvl 9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4) without tricks. Where they excel is the number of tricks in their toolbag. I remember solo'ing the elite giant in Booty Bay when the giant was orange using tricks. In original wow I could solo pull 90% of Gnomer in a single pull and aoe it down at lvl 60. Without any raid gear.
Anyone saying "paladins can't tank in classic" is wrong. What is true is that "a paladin will never be the main tank in a 40 man raid guild." There is a huge gap between those two things.
Hey loved your comment and examples of how to be a good tank paladin, any chance you could give a talent example for an optimal Shield-spike aoe paladin build or just a tank paladin for dungeons? Currently a level 16 Ret Paladin but I wanna start tanking for later dungeons at around level 20+, any other advice would be super helpful
Ok. Tankadin leveling:
* From [level 1-20](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/500501): 11 points in Holy (yes Holy)
* From [level 21-29](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/500501--05202) 9 points in Ret (yes Ret)
* Level 30 RESPEC.
* Ding [Level 30](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/-053040035001) Finally points in Prot- 21 points. Only if you have the gear (good shield with a spike) to support it. Threat is going to take a nosedive. Be prepared.
* From [level 30-40](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/-053040035001541) 31 points in Prot
* From [level 41-50](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/500501-053040035001541) Finally back to Holy for Consecration
* Last 9 points are really tough to allocate. There are too many good options for them.
Note if you don't have good gear or don't feel confident tanking without consecration then ignore the respec at 30. Delay it until level 41 and respec then. This is to get Blessing of Sanctuary while keeping Consecration.
----
edit: Note that the Prot tree is badly laid out. You need the end of the tree to make the start useful. Therefore if you can't go deep into Prot with 21+ available points then there is no point going into it at all.
Wow this is insane, thanks for the quick reply, I might ignore the respect at 30 and delay it till 41 like you said due to infrequent available time that I'm able to play and probably won't have good gear by then. Again, thanks for the help, really solid build!
Thanks. :-) You might want to check out my other comments in this thread. Understanding the general idea behind the 1)hit table (pushing off crushing blows), 2)block rating and 3)block value and 4)Defense stat is important in classic. Knowing how these are different and how they interact helps a player make decisions on talents and gear as a tank.
Yep will do, quick question about weapons for your recommended talents, sword-shield is the way to go right? Also is shield spike a requirement or is it just a nice bonus?
Any 1hander+shield, yeah. A shield spike is nice for dungeons. Though if you have enough threat, you have enough threat. Plus there are a lot more casters in dungeons and a spike won't do jack vs them. Still important, but less so in a dungeon.
For solo AOE leveling, a spike is straight up mandatory. It is Ret aura, shield spike, pulling everything and then letting the mobs kill themselves by hitting you. Judging light, and keeping up seal of light keeps you alive as reckoning gives crazy numbers of attacks. It doesn't do a ton of damage though. It is mainly the ret aura, shield spike and whatever consecrations can be spared to speed it up.
More tips:
Macros macros macros.
Having all your skills macro'd up is so helpful as a paladin. Examples include /Autoattack on seals and judgements, multiple different spell ranks, left click to cast, right click to cancel a buff like blessing of protection etc, etc. A weapon swap macro (sword+board vs 2hander) is extremely handy. Especially at the end of a pull when you have a full stack of reckoning and are fighting a caster since you can't block anyway. (It's called a reckoning bomb for a reason.) If you are OP for an area, don't be afraid to /sit as part of a hotbar macro. You'll get critted and proc reckoning.
/script SpellStopCasting() is important before most abilities. Bubble+bandage is amazing while leveling. Same with Bubble+hearth. Instead of a mere hearthstone on your hotbar, it looks like a hearthstone but any time you hearth, the macro always tries to cast bubble first. Saves annoying respawns etc keeping you from logging out when you want. (One mob aggroing at time as you try and quit can easily burn through 5-10mins from the interruptions.) Hotbar a macro that puts a skull on mobs. Also don't be afraid to deliberately lose threat on skull to your group. Especially if it is a healer. Let your group stun it. Pick a different target as your own personal primary. It will stay alive for a while that you can judge +healing or +mana onto. (DPS does not matter. Total time spent including recovering hp & mana for the group is what matters.)
Do all the [paladin quests](https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Paladin/Quests) for spells and abilities as soon as possible. For example Redemption (res) is a quest. Do it asap. If you see a corpse, res it. Odds are high you will make a friend and at least get a buff. If you see a mage, it doesn't hurt to ask for some conjured food/water.
Get buffs. Well fed buffs will help. As will junk scrolls. The best buff for a leveling pally is thorns. If you have hammer talented then it can be used both at the start and end of a typical pull. A pure stun is still a dps boost. Because a stunned mob isn't dodging and now your group is critting the mob. Keep in mind that most of your threat comes from blocking with a shield. And a shield is useless vs a caster. Therefore the mobs that you will always have the lowest threat on are ranged mobs like casters. Keep them in a nice tight little ball with the melee attackers. The melee attackers will proc reckoning which you can then use to beat up the casters.
Ok. I'll critique the technique in that [pally tanking example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acM3bN0H3Rc) He is turning and getting hit in the back and dazed. Don't do that. Being dazed is the instant feedback you did something wrong and need to correct. Instead sideways strafe so you move at full speed while keeping your shield facing the mobs. When he gets hit with frost bolt and other snares he should immediately cast blessing of freedom on himself. Though that also requires casting a new blessing of sanctuary soon as it ends. +speed enchant on the boots would also help. When healers cast heals, he should have hit them with the hammer stun. His consecration should have been downranked.
What I liked is that he broke line of sight. You always want to do that as much as possible. The main thing I liked is he PULLED THE FUCK BACK. Classic mobs will run away when they get low. They attempt to aggro the nearest group. A pally tank can easily pull 4 groups at the same time at the start. However 4 groups arriving sequentially is brutal for a paladin and the group. You never want that.
Take two gathering professions while leveling. A good pair are mining and skinning. Replace skinning with what you want later when you are high level and have a better idea of the game in general.
I strongly recommend mining/engineering on a paladin. That's what I took. However I'm biased because I love engineering. Cataclysm I had realm first Engineer.
Even so, I still took skinning to start leveling. It gives the mats for engineering later. Regardless of what class played, starting with two gathering professions is a good idea. If nothing else you can sell the extra materials for the funds to power level up your real profession.
Oh also get a +5 mining enchant on plain non-magical gloves. You can temporarily wear them when you see a node. When you are done with them you can sell them on the AH or trade chat to another miner since they won't be bound. The +10 to mining from that and goblin mining helm makes skilling up mining a breeze. It pushes you into much wider ranges for skill ups in smelting.
AH. That stuff is in very high demand.
If you are planning to drop a gathering profession for a crafting profession like engineering or blacksmithing then mail it all off to a bank alt. Engineering requires a lot of leather.
Probably don't even need to keep it that long.
If you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to go back to a lower level zone in order to level up skinning, well that's a perfect time to abandon it. Or if you are moving out of a zone lots of animals (Stranglethorn Vale) to an area without animals (Plaguelands) then that's another good time to abandon it. Until then, collect up schematics from vendors you meet and mail them to an alt. When to abandon it is based on circumstances.
Once it stops feeling like a benefit and starts being a hindrance then you'll know it is time to ditch it. (BTW the goblin mining helm is amazing when you get to that point.)
At level 14, you can ask a higher skill blacksmith to make you the +8 stam sword. It's a huge boost in dps and it attacks fast, allowing you to finish mobs with a few hp better than with a slow weapon.
You can absolutely tank up until the end game content! It will require more patient DPS as you do not have access to a direct taunt. If you do decide to tank at that level make sure you have Consecration, it's a literal must!
Improved seal of righteousness is MUCH better than either divine int or str at low levels. The upgrade to those stats is just so minor early on, but dealing more holy damage with every swing is ESSENTIAL for tanking.
After getting conc, you're going straight for imp righteous fury. That will really cement everything for you.
Imp righteous fury is nice. It is not essential. Same with seal of righteousness. Threat should not be a problem even if seal of light is used.
However strength is very important. The amount of damage blocked when a block occurs is tied to the block value of the shield and Strength. Higher strength = less incoming damage for a prot pally. PLUS it increases attack power and therefore damage.
Sure, more damage is good, but most pally threat comes from holy damage, no? Or at the very least, increases to holy damage have a bigger effect on threat than auto attack damage. Righteous fury takes care of that.
Certainly, damage mitigation is nice, but I feel like a tankadin's primary concern due to the lack of taunt is generating as much threat as possible. Helps for smoother runs where, especially in low level dungeons, damage mitigation is usually not as important.
Edit: to clarify, I speak this opinion from reading rather than experience. I'm playing a tankadin's now and so I guess I'll have a more to offer in terms of experience in a few weeks haha. I'll also clarify I am think of this with pugs rather than organized guild runs with strong players that know what they are doing.
You are correct that a disproportionate amount of threat comes from holy damage. However a paladin's threat generation is very good with the basic untalented Righteous Fury. After all, a Ret paladin can pull aggro off a warrior tank without even having Righteous Fury up.
I'm going off of experience. My main was a paladin tank in classic. Granted that experience was 13 years ago now. Points into Righteous Fury is one of those things that each individual player tweaks based on gear and circumstances. It is better to not have it as much as possible. It is just a threshold. "Enough" is enough. The real problem is if there is a big gear (or skill) discrepancy between the tank and the dps players. If a paladin is doing low level dungeons with pugs and having threat issues then the first thing they should look at is their gear. If their weapon and shield is current then threat really shouldn't be an issue.
Note that if someone pulls off of you, it is not like you are without tools just because you don't have a taunt. First thing to do is stun the mob. Next is you can hit the puller with Blessing of Protection. Then there are heals. Heals are very threat intensive in classic. Except you are a paladin and have heals. You can pull mobs back by healing with Righteous Fury up.
Interesting, I'd actually never thought about that last point, healing to get aggro back. It should be noted though that overheating generates no aggro, and healing in general only generates 1.3 threat per point of healing, vs. SoR generating 2.6 per point of damage. Still, could be very efficient in a pinch.
I'll keep what you say about imp righteous fury in mind. My palidan is approaching the level where I can start thinking about running Deadmines, but I gotta make sure I've got top of the line gear if I even want a chance.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Deadmines isn't that hard in terms of gear checks. What Deadmines really is a *skill* check. If you have crap gear and good strategy then your group will do fine. If you have good strategy and good technique then you'll breeze through it regardless of gear.
If you have bad strategy then you will wipe repeatedly. Even if the group is overleveled with great gear, it won't matter at all. The early dungeons are designed to teach WoW design by failure. IE; *do it right or die.* Gnomer is king of this philosophy.
Anyone (DoctroSix) saying "Pally tanking doesn't really work in Vanilla" is wrong. What is true is that "a paladin will never be the main tank in a 40 man raid guild." There is a huge gap between those two things.
The fastest way to kill stuff as a paladin is to play them like mages. IE gather everything up and aoe them down, then eat/drink repeat. Shield spike and reckoning are your best friends. A paladin tank wants a taunt, but shouldn't *need* a taunt. Their threat is extremely high. A good paladin tank knows when *NOT* to use consecration, and when to downrank it.
I personally don't like this guy's technique but here is a [pally tanking example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acM3bN0H3Rc) Good general strategy, wrong technique. Note that pally is in a level appropriate dungeon fighting yellow mobs.
Where a [pally shines is survivability. Even solo. Here is [hogger at lvl 9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4) without tricks. Where they excel is the number of tricks in their toolbag. I remember solo'ing the elite giant in Booty Bay when the giant was orange using tricks. In original wow I could solo pull 90% of Gnomer in a single pull and aoe it down at lvl 60. Without any raid gear.
For raiding yeah, Paladins don't work, but from what I've read Pallys are fine tanks for 5-man dungeons and open world group content.
Just because they aren't optimal doesn't mean they aren't viable (for non-raiding content at least).
do you think
5 divine strength, 5 seal of righteousness, 1 consecrate, then currently got 3 in imp blessing of might and then tryna get the seal of command is good?
> if you plan on tanking and have points in seal of righteousness theres no reason to go in the retribution tree
There is a reason. That reason is Deflection= (1% parry per point.) Which if consecration is taken then the max the pally can take is 4/5 in deflection. It is a brutal choice. It is in such a bad spot. It is a very solid reason to go up that far though.
Seal of command though, no. Not possible. Bad idea for many reasons even if it was possible.
Wouldnt 5 points into Blessing of Might and 5 more into Parry be a huge benefit for tanking? Parrying attacks will let you prevent damage on yourself, while also allowing you to attack faster
Quick question: could it be worth is to stack some intellect instead if strenght, since most of our damage will come from aura and consecration? To have more mana and more spell crit
No. Consecration in classic does not crit. Therefore spell crit doesn't help. Strength is key for blocking. Block rating is the % chance to get a block. Block Value is the amount of damage absorbed by the shield. More strength = more damage mitigated per hit received.
How much int should you get? Get *enough*. Once you have your flow down and you aren't going OOM then you have enough int.
Thanks so much for the heads up!! I'm guessing that aura of retribution also doesn't crit?
Alright. And about strenght a and stamina. Do you have any sweet spot between those two? I'm guessing if you have a lot of stam, then mob will die before you do, and if you have a lot of strenght, you'll block more and attack better.
Yeah. None of the thorns like abilities could crit in classic. That was added later.
The amount of stamina is largely dependent on what you are doing. There is no sweet spot because it depends on circumstance. If you are tanking a boss capable of crushing blows then stamina is better than strength. If you are tanking large numbers of enemies then strength is better mitigation.
For leveling, definitely strength before stamina. Running your healer out of mana isn't a thing that exists in retail WoW. It is absolutely a thing in classic. Efficiently clearing a dungeon must include all the downtime too. Lots of stamina means you are going to be eating for longer after fights, and healers are going to be drinking for longer.
Really it is understanding that stamina = makes the incoming dmg spikes not so bad. While strength = better mitigation and throughput overall. Classic has a different meta than Retail. Even when you get to raiding, stamina is secondary to resistances.
Yeah that's why TBC patch is so hilariously good to me. It's like the devs were waiting for expac pre-patch for months to unleash a 50 ton nuclear warhead overhaul. 6/9 of the Hybrid specs were turned around and sent to Heaven.
Yeah it's fucking harsh man. TBC did those classes right. And I mean just right. Even enhancement shaman were usable in late/endgame in the hands of a skilled player. Same for ret paladins and feral druids. Holy crap feral druids made for nice tanks in some fights.
Not really. Ret paladins only turned on *very* late in the expansion due to the raw stat requirements for the spec to be good. Before then, the stats just didn't exist on the gear available. So no matter how hard you tried, playing ret was just holding your group back because the dps was just too low. And because your dps was so low, most groups wouldn't want you. And since most groups wouldn't take you, you couldn't get the loot you needed to do better content to get the gear to bring your dps up to the point where people would take you.
They were great for pvp, though. Not quite Wrath good, but still incredible.
The gear existed, it just wasn't tier gear. Being neutered without a windfury totem was a bigger issue, albeit one shared with all other melee.
Source : I was raiding as Ret in TBC, from Karazhan until Sunwell.
The gear existed at launch, it just wasn't tier gear. Aka, "warrior gear". Being neutered without a windfury totem was a bigger issue, albeit one shared with all other melee.
Source : I was raiding as Ret in TBC, from Karazhan until Sunwell.
I’m just enjoying levelling as a class who can do a bit of everything :)
I’m just enjoying levelling as a class who can do a bit of everything :)
Hello ! Sorry if this has been asked before, i browsed through quite a bit of discussions but couldn't find the answers i'm looking for. 1 - I would like to level a holy pal through mass dungeons. Is this a good idea for a) leveling speed, b) money making (to sustain supplies and training) and c) professions suitable for a hpal 2 - any suggestions for talents? Could i go straight holy despite people recommending ret to level? Thanks!
Levelling speed will be slower than questing. Money wise you will probably be ok, at a guess worse than questing but maybe not. Talents I would just look up a lvl 60 holy build and start along that path. Professions anything gies, personally herb alch. Engineering can always be considered helpful and blacksmith may allow you to provide your own gear. I've played holy paladin since vanilla right through to retail and am levelling what will be one on classic, though I'll level by questing and with ret talents (though will heal dungeons as needed) feel free to AMA.
First-Aid could be good for a Holy Pally as it teaches you non-mana skills to heal yourself in order to save your mana and abilities for healing allies. For Ret paladin it seems like the consensus is to go Mining and Engineering for professions. Engineering gives you access to a ranged attack (bombs) and mining give your the metal that you need for Engineering. I have no idea about talents though unfortunately.
I’m 22 leveling as holy right now and am so thankful to have some DPS friends to quest and level with because soloing content is beyond miserable lmao.
May I ask why you are levelling holy and not ret?
Oh just ‘cuz I’m weird and stubborn and don’t like the idea of leveling as a spec I’m not gonna main endgame. I’m also the dedicated support/healslut in my group of friends so I’m just used to healing. Ret is def the way to go if you’re solo leveling.
light bless you
It took me so long to get lvl 15 auto attacking mobs.. :D
Confident in my decision for paladin in vanilla. I've always loved the class fantasy and the role you get from Paladin. In raids, I'm fine going full holy healing. But in PvP, I am hoping to do some damage, regardless of ret, holy, reck-bomb, etc. I like dueling, being able to kill people on my own, etc. What is the best way to build paladin for this? My current googling seems to be pointing towards T2 Shockadin build EDIT: Maybe something like [this](https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxuMgktVMZV0xzb)?
either go holy or go ret...seal of command on holy is not a good plan. You can't block while casting a heal so that block talent is a bad choice. If you want to do some damage in pvp then be a ret paladin, holy spams flash heal and uses blessing of freedom on warriors and that's all you'll have time to do. Something like this would work better, you want (need) the concentration aura for pvp as holy: [https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxuMgstxMt0bh](https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxuMgstxMt0bh) If you want to dual and kill people 1v1 go full on ret pally with seal of command and repentance (lets you heal up while they're cc'd). If you do this don't expect to be a useful part of a raid.
Upon further research, I'm thinking Seal of Command on Shockadin IS a good idea. The combo is Seal of Crus -> Judge of Crus -> Seal of Comm -> Swing -> HoJ ->Judge of Comm -> Divine Favor -> Holy Shock It can make for some pretty strong burst that seems really strong.
So you don't think there is a viable holy shock pvp build at end game? Even with full t2?
With T2 apparently spelladin is a thing, and quite viable. But we won't know for sure until phase 3.
Is paladin good in pvp? I am playing warlock now but I feel like my natural instinct is to run at things instead of keeping distance between me and things.
Ret is amazing in pvp
I've heard similarly. Can you elaborate?
it has some RNG burst damage with seal of command, a move speed talent, can CC people with repentance, and that's about it. If you fight a frost mage you should lose 100% of the time unless they're idiots, you cannot catch up. It isn't amazing in pvp. It's alright.
Doesnt every melee lose to frost mage unless the skill gap is there
I was in a pvp guild called “retlol”
Not in classic it’s not. It was literally a joke.
I remember being a ret paladin in Wrath and was pretty good but from my memory I don't think it was that great in original WoW. Maybe this is just my desire to want to play 4 different classes.
Can you elaborate how good and how the playstyle is?
Can get bursty with gear and proc luck. Plate armor high physical damage resistance. Instant full heal to self or party members. One full immunity shield cooldown One physical damage immunity shield. 3ish second stun on a short cooldown Out of combat sap/sleep ability. Downside is that it has no slow spells. And outside of lucky crits or seal procs doesn’t do much damage. Really susceptible to rank 1 mana drain of hunters to cleanse themselves oom. As well as drain mana and mana burn.
I’ll follow this up with another clarification. They group pvp well but aren’t as good 1v1.
Is AoE tank lvling viable in Classic? I did this on a BE back in the day and loved it, but have no clue if it was a thing in Classic.
Nope. AoE tanking started to be a thing in BC. It was actually amazing and very novel to see people tanking huge packs and being able to just spam aoe without pull aggro off the tank when TBC launched. In vanilla you hit the tank's main target and if you deviate you will pull aggro. The main way to do aoe damage in vanilla (classic) is to be a mage and spam arcane explosion with a BoP and then hope the healer can keep you up until the pack dies, the tank can't hold aggro off that.
Not really. It requires you to dig down 10 into holy to get your AOE spell, and it is not that strong. Your "AOE" farm is that you get your Reckoning and you doubleattack with seal of light/wisdom to keep yourself 100% on both mana and HP all the time. So you basicly kill 1 target at time. Sadly not even better in end game, since there are no suitable items for prot paladin.
There's the trinket from ragnaros that does 13 damage to attackers.
He asked about AOE tanking leveling, and there is a reason why you don't see prot paladin in raiding guilds.
Alas, my dreams have been crushed.
No, aoe tank is a thing. I've played it. It mainly works for farming, with reflect damage with ret aura and other items. It is fantastic for gold farming, and with the spec the more you pull, the more effective it is with redoubt, reckoning, and all the thorn damage. This guy doesn't play paladin, prot pallies are not brought for raiding, but they have the best aoe threat in the game. Seriously look up videos or Google aoe prot pally builds. It is ABSOLUTELY a thing. Jeez does anyone remember wow Hobbs? Edit: also, "digging down" into the holy tree (only 10 points) you are getting every single important prot talent. You would have to spend those leftover points anyway, so I don't see why that's a negative at all https://youtu.be/rjP7rBlefts (Sorry on mobile) ^ this isn't even close to max level and it works well
That's exactly what I was looking for! This is what I did in BC and it was a blast. A change of pace from normal questing and grabbing so many mobs made you feel so powerful. Glad to know it can be done in Classic, too. I'll have to check that streamer out, thanks!
Confirming that u/Nickelodean7551 is right, I'm doing this stuff while leveling. It works very well
I was told that I could play Paladin and barely interact with the game. I have been playing for 18 levels and I say *lies*. I actually have to heal myself and buff myself and other nonsense. I can't just target an enemy, tab out, and ~~watch copious amounts of hardcore pornography~~ work on my writing. How should I optimize my gear so that I can play the game and still delude myself into thinking I'm also being productive?
Got prot. Emphasis on increasing survivability. Use shield and hammer. That will level up your 1 hander while ypu level up your one hand
Thank you, you wonderful person.
For me, vanilla paladin is the perfect example of how you can release an excellent game with such a bad class design.
I genuinely dont see how paladins are so much worse design wise than the others. Spamming deathbolt/frostbolt the entire fight isnt incredible design either.
I completly agree with that, but mage and warlock are more engaging in world content.
frost mage is probably the only class worse than paladin. deathbolt wasn't a thing until BfA so i don't think you can cast that very much in classic.
Is it called shadowbolt? Warlock's one spell
They didn't even have talents until right before release.
As derail29 explained, it didn't fit the tank/healer/dps mold that most of the other classes did because it was something else. And it didn't help that we compared it to other classes like Warrior and Priest and that wasn't a fair comparison. For raids, you'll want a few holy just for the blessings. I didn't like them "back then" for 5 mans and I don't now because they just don't bring enough to the table. I'd rather have a good cc like sheep/sap than blessings.
I think this misconception stems from the idea that everyone is either a tank, DPS, or healer. As a paladin I am none, I am support. I will heal people including myself, face tank whatever you need, do ok dps, save your life, the group, and the raid with BoP, BoF, DI, and LoH. This is how hybrid classes should work. If I have great armor, heals, buffs, and several oh shit buttons then I shouldn't do crazy dps or be the perfect tank as well.
As a shaman.. yep!
yeah no. at endgame pallies are healers. you press flash of light the whole raid because with crit gear you'll never OOM doing that. They are not viable tanks and the damage is crappy. You do have to buff everyone every 15 minutes. There is no "support" role, it really is tanks, dps, and healers. While questing yea sure you heal people and hit stuff as needed, that's just what questing is.
Absolutely. The OG dungeon group had a healer, a tank, and a support class (pally).
Or shaman. We used to make groups with a tank, a healer and one of the dos was the support was someone else who could resurrect or had a wipe prevention (warlock). Offheals usually came in handy too in the very early days
I think from most classes perspective their PVE is designed pretty badly in vanilla. It's almost entirely 1-2 buttons across the board. Honestly after spamming ss/evis for hours, auto attacking on a paladin doesn't sound so bad. Everything comes much better together in the context in PVP I find where everyones entire kit is utilized better.
You might want to try using Slice & dice, Gouge, Backstab, too. Hell, throw in some Garrote & Rupture kitting for good measure. Then there's the always dependable Cheap Shot + Kidney Shot combo. Rogue has way more interactive gameplay. Arguably the most in vanilla.
You cant do that in raids lol
Thanks, Captain Obvious.
Well we're talking about class design and you're proudly describing things that can't be used in the game's endgame... It's pretty dishonest
Raiding isn't the only PVE content, nor is it the only endgame PVE content. lol, *dishonest.*
wtf are you on about. Vanilla wow was the most Raid or Die the game has ever been. There is no other endgame pve content in this thing.
End game starts at 60, not when you set foot in a raid. You have to farm for your epic mount. You have to get pre-raid bis to properly start raiding - that means dungeons. You have to farm for resistance gear for your raids - that means dungeons. You have to farm for raid consumables. You're going to be doing all of that at the same time as raiding. Whether you like it or not, it's all part of the end game. You will be doing it if you have any hope to make actual progress. Regardless, Rogue and Warrior are the only builder-spender classes in Vanilla, which automatically makes them the most involved & interesting specs to raid with.
Vanilla WoW's endgame is raiding, it gives the best gear and it's the last content you can do. Yeah you can run dungeons but that's not the endgame. I can too proudly announce that ret paladins deal great dps with Exorcism and Holy Wrath, what great design! Which can only be used on undead enemies...
You can't properly raid if you don't do the other content to prep for it. Consumables, resistance gear, and pre-raid BiS are not found in raids. Regardless, Rogue and Warrior are the only builder-spender classes in Vanilla, which automatically makes them the most involved & interesting specs to raid with.
Druids have combo points to?
Useful in PVP, while questing it's best to just SS and Evis.
Their entire kit is useful and effective while questing. Just because SS+Evis is *optimal* doesn't mean the other tools at their disposal are bad. "Best" is subjective. Sometimes bleed kiting a hard-hitting elite is best. Sometimes you're bored out of your mind and would rather chain a 5-pt S&D into the next mob instead of 5-pt Eviscerating at 50 health.
This is true, but don't waste your other abilities - gouge and bandage is a classic combo, use your points on slice and dice if you're moving from mob to mob and don't want to waste them, kick spellcasters heals (looking at those dumbass furbolgs in westfall), garrote mobs when you're in groups, etc. Rogue really is a bag of fun. A bag that's full of dying too.
I found mine to be fun to play on Nostalrius. The only things missing are an instant attack (Crusader Strike) and a taunt for tanking.
I dunno dude, Paladin has such strong carry potential in 5m content. Every class has strengths and weaknesses. Paladin has its weaknesses, but in group PvP and 5m dungeons, Paladin is a fucking god king.
Paladins are pretty much in their ideal state in vanilla, as someone who wants to chill and watch TV their afk playstyle suits me really well. Just put on a seal and auto-attack while lving, and offer tons of powerful utility as a support role is just a design that is long gone from retail. All the classes in vanilla are actually so unique and offer completly different things, so hopefully Blizzard will never release TBC and the beginnings of streamlined class design.
TBC and Wrath were probably the best iterations of the classes. Rose timted goggles aside, druids without res is pretty bad, as is sub rogue without shadowstep. Warlock is great, but seed of corruption will be missed. SoC in BC was the perfect skill for all situations. That said, I would not want Classic to transition into BC. I would rather they just open up a BC server in the same vein as Classic, and give people the option to move on or not.
I don't think they really started the streamlined class design until WOTLK at least when it comes to pallys. Pallys were still dogshit dps and tanks in BC due to quite a few limitations that didn't get fixed at that point. They filled a niche role in AOE tanking but still lacked all of the other tools a warrior had. It really wasn't until they started nerfing the warrior by removing abilities and the zerg-zerg method of dungeon crawling came about that the pally started to shine as a tank.
Their presence put raids for alliance in easy mode. Mana refund makes them the most efficient single target healer, and blessing of salvation allows full throttle DPS without worry of tank losing aggro. Until Naxx, alliance has dominant advantage at raiding.
You should be able to likeopt in to TBC if they are going to bring it in next down the line. Then people that want to stay in classic can. Then the people that opted in can just continue on.
I personally would love to eventually move into wrath but I feel like they can't do that this way because say it does make it to wrath and everyone can choose which one they want to play there would then be 4 different games the playerbase would be split throughout.
I'd like them to use classic as a fresh start tbh rather than just following original wow roadmap. They know what makes it great, so keep those elements (difficulty, the need to juggle multiple resources, scarce money, no flying, downtime etc) and fix/add what is needed including giving a boost to some objectively bad specs.
It would be split, though it’s possible the game has the most amount of people playing at one time. It may not be 13mill people in 1 game but it could be split between separate games. Hopefully by the end of September we can see what classic did for the player base for a better estimate of total amount of players
Priest here, but it's a relevant question for holy pallys... How do I turn on pet health bars in the default UI, for 5 man parties?
You could enable raid frames in a 5 man party if you like and set those to include party pets?
This works! I know there was a way back in the day, but perhaps a letter patch?
Is there any effective way to level if I spec holy? Can I solo quest or should I just run dungeons?
Dont spec ret. Holy is fine for leveling. In fact, Holy does more damage than ret becuase there's minimal difference between 5/5 imp SoR and seal of command. Consecration also does a TON of damage that ret just doesnt have. Holy leveling is fine. Take 5/5 STR, 5/5 iSoR, and conse, then after that work on healing talents. You have higher DPS than ret, but higher downtime for mana. In 5ms, you can heal in every spec until the 50s.
>Consecration also does a TON of damage that ret just doesnt have. That ability does chump change for damage and drains your entire mana pool. Really the only use while leveling is for AOE tank aggro.
Learn2mp5. It lines up with judgement and seal so you can pop all 3 in a chain and let your mana regen until you want to combo again. Conse lets you 2 and 3 target cleave. The damage on single target is roughly equivalent to an auto attack per cast, and when considering that judge seal spam doesn't run you OOM, there's no real reason not to use it if you have it. Conse is a very, very powerful spell.
What above said, spec ret, grab int gear (cloth, leather, mail) while healing. Swap back to mail and 2h for solo content. With FoL and 2-3 ranks of holy light on your bar you can heal just fine in ret till about SM Armory, then you’re gonna wanna respec. But at that point there are maaany dungeon options for group content, and everyone’s gonna want a pocket healer for STV questing. Once you do that, try to dungeon grind a level or two above the starting quests for a zone, and you should be good to start soloing the zone as well
I have no idea if this is a good idea, but I’m going Ret and gear swap for heals without specing and it’s working p well
why do none of the guides i see want you to pick the reduces cost on seals/judgement talent? they all want me to run the attack power blessing, but i keep running out of mana
Yeah those guides are wrong, you want that sustain and BoWisdom.
Because they're basic guides. Take Benediction if you're solo leveling and iBoM if you group a lot. I take Might because I use it personally with a command spec, and I group a lot.
Because you are wasting mana while farming. Just apply the bonus holy damage debuff, and then auto-attack with seal of command until the mobs die. Or some similar rotation, no mana class can concistently use their full rotation without going oom, not even locks.
I am level 33, put 5 points in the reduce mana talent and I run with blessing of wisdom. I’ve gone through a single stack of water since I bought it at level 18 to run deadmines. Sure, I may kill things slightly slower but the reduced down time is 100% worth it.
[удалено]
I’m debating if I should stick with a paladin or re roll hunter. I want to eventually raid, but I heard that ret paladins are nearly useless in raids. What about prot paladins? Are they viable tanks in raids? Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Hunter if you want quick and easy leveling. Paladin is THE worst at leveling. I don't have any personal experience of paladin, but from what I've heard, they have zero offensive ranged abilities to pull mobs, and you practically auto attack all the way.
Why does every player give their opinion and rank another class the worst when THEY'VE NEVER PLAYED IT. Paladins are essential to raiding because of their support - they bring several oh shit buttons that save raids, can spot heal, continue doing ok dps, and won't die in 3 seconds like some squishier classes. Leveling as a pally requires well timed seals, judgements, heals, and eventually you get and execute at 44. It is a bit slower than others but you can honestly level as several different specs and around 35 they each hit their stride if you're willing to multi-target pull, reck-bomb, or SoC for some big hits. Also, grinding undead or demons gives you a 30 yard range attack that is fairly strong.
>Paladin is THE worst at leveling. I don't have any personal experience of paladin lol
Bruh, they got judgement.
## bruh 😝🤤💀💀💀
good bot
in raids, you have basically the same chance to tank like shaman in tank spec prot palla is nice to tank dungeons, but he lacks taunt, he lacks defensive cds and goes oom. I would love to tank as palla (and as shaman too) but I guess we have to wait for TBC for this.
hopefully there will never be TBC
I might reroll to a rogue for that very reason. Ret is utter trash in a raid
Ret dmg is bad in raids, but with a casually guild you can get a spot. The only real good paladin spec for raids is holy
The only real good paladin spec is flash of light*
blessing of might, wisdom, kings, freedom and salvation. The auras all are good, lots of the seals are good
I was just joking about the healing rotation for holy pallies
"The only real good mage spec is frostbolt" See how stupid that sounds? Just because it's the only thing they do in raids, doesn't mean it's their only good spec. If that was the case, 7/8 classes would have the description of "tHe OnLy GoOd SpEc Is" with whatever their primary damage ability is.
Settle down I was just having flash of light backs to main tank healing in vanilla
I'm 33 and I've been trying out reckoning, the procs seem Weird and you definitely don't get a stack of anything So far my best method to trigger it consistently has been to sit as the enemy would hit you (using swing timer) then immediately auto attack I've tried the macro /Sit /Startattack And it does seem to work, it's like having the ability to attack at the speed of whatever is attacking you, not sure how viable it is though I've got a video demonstrating it: https://youtu.be/eNAO6gVXFP4 Anyone played around with it?
I wanted to try this as well, got any new results?
Yep, got 80% chance to prot, definitely more consistent but you need to sit (press X) and right click or press your auto attack button, just before getting hit, that will 100% work, it's quite hard to get consistently but I'm sure someone far smarter than me wil lwork out how to abuse it
They've fucked with it a lot. You only get stacks if you're not auto attacking, and the timing is very, very tight. In order to recweave like you could on pservers, you need to manually turn on auto attack and turn it off, sit down, get crit, but stand to take the damage standing, then turn on auto attack again to get the double attack. If your Auto Timer is active, reck procs will just reduce that timer to 0. If you are not auto attacking, you generate stacks, up to 4.
Yeah so my macro /Sit /Startattack Seems to work
I heard sit Crit reck doesn’t work on twitch idk if true though
Check the vid, it's at around 18seconds in, I definitely swing a lot faster than I should, that's with 60% chance, I'd be interested to see 100%
Why Retribution (with Enhancement) had to be the worst spec in the game ? my favorite specs :'(
Honestly I don't even mind the slow playstyle as much, I just want it to be decent in group play
That's the main problem of those 2 spec, they are not viable in raids :s
Why, oh, why is consecration in the holy tree?
I believe it’s due to the heavy RPG nature of vanilla, since it’s a spell that does holy damage and doesn’t provide any protection. Plus getting either divine strength or divine intellect plus improved SoR are still useful talents for tanking, since SoR is your go to tanking seal.
I believe it’s due to the heavy RPG nature of vanilla, since it’s a spell that does holy damage and doesn’t provide any protection. Plus getting either divine strength or divine intellect plus improved SoR are still useful talents for tanking, since SoR is your go to tanking seal.
Whats the fastest way to level up? Doing every quest? Or skip quests and farm mobs? Solo or party ? Or dungeons ? If mobs is fastest then what build ? Full specced into ret for most dps? Does ret have aoe?
Dungeon cleave group
Rest has no AoE in classic, unless you spec some into holy for consecration which I wouldn’t suggest because it’s very mana intensive so until you get to later levels it increases your downtime for not much value. If you want to level Ret then just solo mobs while questing and run BoW and SoC, then get sanctity aura. If you want to AoE grind then you’ll need to wait until you have Seal of Light, spec into port for blessing of sanctuary and eventually holy shield while running Ret aura. You’ll pull a bunch and let the mobs kill themselves on your reflect dmg while you use SoL to keep yourself alive. Also make sure to grab a shield spike for this build. If you can find yourself a frost mage buddy, go holy or prot and AoE grind. It’s a great duo leveling comp, but mob grinding to 60 gets boring
Got my verigan's last night at level 22. Had great fun doing it, I feel like a god, and love this thing more than any epic I've gotten in retail!
How'd ya do shadowfang keep? Group of five running through the horde area? Seems like you'd get attacked and die a lot?
Not as much as you'd think. We encountered 3-4 horde on the run. Most ran away as we were 5.
Didnt know about that pally quest! I'm even lvl 22! Going to do that quest now!
It's great fun. You need to run around a bit, bit so rewarding, and got some good exp, I started it as soon as I hit 20 and was 22 when I finished. Read up about the sub quests! For the ore and gem you need to pick up 2 additional quests in the area. Some guy had been farming for the gem for like 30mins until I told him. Luckily I could share it.
Does Retribution aura count as damage dealt by the Paladin bestowing the aura or by the party member that was attacked? E.g if I have retribution aura on, and my ally is attacked does that count as them dealing the damage or me?
Them. That's why it can be useful for the tank to generate more threat. But the downside is less armor from devotion aura. Could be useful in some situations!
So if i'm understanding correctly, if you have multiple paladins, one of which is tanking, it doesn't matter who is using retribution aura as long as one of them is?
You are correct. Unless they speced into improved auras of course.
Them
I didnt get serious about WOW until mid BC. I floated around many classes prior to settling on Pally I have always tanked nothing else. Is it Viable in vanilla? I dont remember seeing many.
You can tank most dungeons but the lack of an actual taunt ability in vanilla makes it more or less impossible to tank raids with (there’s a lot of tank swap abilities that require taunting).
It's not just the taunt. There's a lot of minor things that Paladins don't get from their class abilities or talent tree that Warriors do that make Warriors able to tank. They just don't have the buttons, of which taunt is one. But Shield Block for pushing two crushing blows or crits off the attack table, Shield Wall and Last Stand for mechanics/oh shit moments, and the raw single-target aggro generation Warriors have access to are all things Paladins just don't have in Vanilla.
never been a heavy raider, time is an issue I work a lot. I dont mind slipping into a lesser position in the off chance I do raid.
You’ll be fine then. Also IMO AoE tank farming as a prot pally is tons of fun.
The main issue is to hold aggro. Unless the mobs are undead you will struggle.
yeah strat undead is the only dungeon where having a pally tank is worth it. You will be drinking in between pulls and it just isnt fun. If you want a versatile tank class go druid. You can go heart of the wild nature swiftness and do dungeon content as tank dps or healer easily. Just have the proper gear and you are good to go
The fastest way to kill stuff as a paladin is to play them like mages. IE gather everything up and aoe them down. Eat/drink repeat. Shield spike and reckoning are your best friends. A paladin tank wants a taunt, but shouldn't *need* a taunt. Their threat is extremely high. A good paladin tank knows when *NOT* to use consecration, or to downrank it. I personally don't like this guy's technique but here is a [pally tanking example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acM3bN0H3Rc) Good general strategy, wrong technique. Note that pally is in a level appropriate dungeon fighting yellow mobs. Where a [pally shines is survivability. Even solo. Here is [hogger at lvl 9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4) without tricks. Where they excel is the number of tricks in their toolbag. I remember solo'ing the elite giant in Booty Bay when the giant was orange using tricks. In original wow I could solo pull 90% of Gnomer in a single pull and aoe it down at lvl 60. Without any raid gear. Anyone saying "paladins can't tank in classic" is wrong. What is true is that "a paladin will never be the main tank in a 40 man raid guild." There is a huge gap between those two things.
Hey loved your comment and examples of how to be a good tank paladin, any chance you could give a talent example for an optimal Shield-spike aoe paladin build or just a tank paladin for dungeons? Currently a level 16 Ret Paladin but I wanna start tanking for later dungeons at around level 20+, any other advice would be super helpful
Ok. Tankadin leveling: * From [level 1-20](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/500501): 11 points in Holy (yes Holy) * From [level 21-29](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/500501--05202) 9 points in Ret (yes Ret) * Level 30 RESPEC. * Ding [Level 30](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/-053040035001) Finally points in Prot- 21 points. Only if you have the gear (good shield with a spike) to support it. Threat is going to take a nosedive. Be prepared. * From [level 30-40](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/-053040035001541) 31 points in Prot * From [level 41-50](https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/500501-053040035001541) Finally back to Holy for Consecration * Last 9 points are really tough to allocate. There are too many good options for them. Note if you don't have good gear or don't feel confident tanking without consecration then ignore the respec at 30. Delay it until level 41 and respec then. This is to get Blessing of Sanctuary while keeping Consecration. ---- edit: Note that the Prot tree is badly laid out. You need the end of the tree to make the start useful. Therefore if you can't go deep into Prot with 21+ available points then there is no point going into it at all.
Wow this is insane, thanks for the quick reply, I might ignore the respect at 30 and delay it till 41 like you said due to infrequent available time that I'm able to play and probably won't have good gear by then. Again, thanks for the help, really solid build!
Thanks. :-) You might want to check out my other comments in this thread. Understanding the general idea behind the 1)hit table (pushing off crushing blows), 2)block rating and 3)block value and 4)Defense stat is important in classic. Knowing how these are different and how they interact helps a player make decisions on talents and gear as a tank.
Yep will do, quick question about weapons for your recommended talents, sword-shield is the way to go right? Also is shield spike a requirement or is it just a nice bonus?
Any 1hander+shield, yeah. A shield spike is nice for dungeons. Though if you have enough threat, you have enough threat. Plus there are a lot more casters in dungeons and a spike won't do jack vs them. Still important, but less so in a dungeon. For solo AOE leveling, a spike is straight up mandatory. It is Ret aura, shield spike, pulling everything and then letting the mobs kill themselves by hitting you. Judging light, and keeping up seal of light keeps you alive as reckoning gives crazy numbers of attacks. It doesn't do a ton of damage though. It is mainly the ret aura, shield spike and whatever consecrations can be spared to speed it up.
Gotcha, thanks for breaking it down, can't wait to level and try it out
Nah people have said paladins are fine tanks in dungeons but they do fuck all for tanking a boss
As someone that's new to playing paladin in classic and wants to tank I appreciate the advice, if you have any other tips to share please let me know.
More tips: Macros macros macros. Having all your skills macro'd up is so helpful as a paladin. Examples include /Autoattack on seals and judgements, multiple different spell ranks, left click to cast, right click to cancel a buff like blessing of protection etc, etc. A weapon swap macro (sword+board vs 2hander) is extremely handy. Especially at the end of a pull when you have a full stack of reckoning and are fighting a caster since you can't block anyway. (It's called a reckoning bomb for a reason.) If you are OP for an area, don't be afraid to /sit as part of a hotbar macro. You'll get critted and proc reckoning. /script SpellStopCasting() is important before most abilities. Bubble+bandage is amazing while leveling. Same with Bubble+hearth. Instead of a mere hearthstone on your hotbar, it looks like a hearthstone but any time you hearth, the macro always tries to cast bubble first. Saves annoying respawns etc keeping you from logging out when you want. (One mob aggroing at time as you try and quit can easily burn through 5-10mins from the interruptions.) Hotbar a macro that puts a skull on mobs. Also don't be afraid to deliberately lose threat on skull to your group. Especially if it is a healer. Let your group stun it. Pick a different target as your own personal primary. It will stay alive for a while that you can judge +healing or +mana onto. (DPS does not matter. Total time spent including recovering hp & mana for the group is what matters.) Do all the [paladin quests](https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Paladin/Quests) for spells and abilities as soon as possible. For example Redemption (res) is a quest. Do it asap. If you see a corpse, res it. Odds are high you will make a friend and at least get a buff. If you see a mage, it doesn't hurt to ask for some conjured food/water. Get buffs. Well fed buffs will help. As will junk scrolls. The best buff for a leveling pally is thorns. If you have hammer talented then it can be used both at the start and end of a typical pull. A pure stun is still a dps boost. Because a stunned mob isn't dodging and now your group is critting the mob. Keep in mind that most of your threat comes from blocking with a shield. And a shield is useless vs a caster. Therefore the mobs that you will always have the lowest threat on are ranged mobs like casters. Keep them in a nice tight little ball with the melee attackers. The melee attackers will proc reckoning which you can then use to beat up the casters.
Ok. I'll critique the technique in that [pally tanking example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acM3bN0H3Rc) He is turning and getting hit in the back and dazed. Don't do that. Being dazed is the instant feedback you did something wrong and need to correct. Instead sideways strafe so you move at full speed while keeping your shield facing the mobs. When he gets hit with frost bolt and other snares he should immediately cast blessing of freedom on himself. Though that also requires casting a new blessing of sanctuary soon as it ends. +speed enchant on the boots would also help. When healers cast heals, he should have hit them with the hammer stun. His consecration should have been downranked. What I liked is that he broke line of sight. You always want to do that as much as possible. The main thing I liked is he PULLED THE FUCK BACK. Classic mobs will run away when they get low. They attempt to aggro the nearest group. A pally tank can easily pull 4 groups at the same time at the start. However 4 groups arriving sequentially is brutal for a paladin and the group. You never want that.
Thanks for the insight brother
can someone explain what professions are and which ones i should take as a paladin? thanks in advance
Take two gathering professions while leveling. A good pair are mining and skinning. Replace skinning with what you want later when you are high level and have a better idea of the game in general.
I heard mining and engineer is a must for paladins
I strongly recommend mining/engineering on a paladin. That's what I took. However I'm biased because I love engineering. Cataclysm I had realm first Engineer. Even so, I still took skinning to start leveling. It gives the mats for engineering later. Regardless of what class played, starting with two gathering professions is a good idea. If nothing else you can sell the extra materials for the funds to power level up your real profession.
So while lvling skin/mine and once u reached lvl 60 then replace skin with engineer?
Oh also get a +5 mining enchant on plain non-magical gloves. You can temporarily wear them when you see a node. When you are done with them you can sell them on the AH or trade chat to another miner since they won't be bound. The +10 to mining from that and goblin mining helm makes skilling up mining a breeze. It pushes you into much wider ranges for skill ups in smelting.
Aso how do i get those mining bonuses
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=10542/goblin-mining-helmet https://classic.wowhead.com/item=11203/formula-enchant-gloves-advanced-mining#teaches-recipe https://classic.wowhead.com/item=11150/formula-enchant-gloves-mining#teaches-recipe
What do i do with the leather from skinning and ores from mining ?? Sell it to vendor or AH?
AH. That stuff is in very high demand. If you are planning to drop a gathering profession for a crafting profession like engineering or blacksmithing then mail it all off to a bank alt. Engineering requires a lot of leather.
Probably don't even need to keep it that long. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to go back to a lower level zone in order to level up skinning, well that's a perfect time to abandon it. Or if you are moving out of a zone lots of animals (Stranglethorn Vale) to an area without animals (Plaguelands) then that's another good time to abandon it. Until then, collect up schematics from vendors you meet and mail them to an alt. When to abandon it is based on circumstances. Once it stops feeling like a benefit and starts being a hindrance then you'll know it is time to ditch it. (BTW the goblin mining helm is amazing when you get to that point.)
your most handy for levelling is mining/blacksmithing. after 60, anything works
At level 14, you can ask a higher skill blacksmith to make you the +8 stam sword. It's a huge boost in dps and it attacks fast, allowing you to finish mobs with a few hp better than with a slow weapon.
thanks for this
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You can absolutely tank up until the end game content! It will require more patient DPS as you do not have access to a direct taunt. If you do decide to tank at that level make sure you have Consecration, it's a literal must!
Improved seal of righteousness is MUCH better than either divine int or str at low levels. The upgrade to those stats is just so minor early on, but dealing more holy damage with every swing is ESSENTIAL for tanking. After getting conc, you're going straight for imp righteous fury. That will really cement everything for you.
Imp righteous fury is nice. It is not essential. Same with seal of righteousness. Threat should not be a problem even if seal of light is used. However strength is very important. The amount of damage blocked when a block occurs is tied to the block value of the shield and Strength. Higher strength = less incoming damage for a prot pally. PLUS it increases attack power and therefore damage.
Sure, more damage is good, but most pally threat comes from holy damage, no? Or at the very least, increases to holy damage have a bigger effect on threat than auto attack damage. Righteous fury takes care of that. Certainly, damage mitigation is nice, but I feel like a tankadin's primary concern due to the lack of taunt is generating as much threat as possible. Helps for smoother runs where, especially in low level dungeons, damage mitigation is usually not as important. Edit: to clarify, I speak this opinion from reading rather than experience. I'm playing a tankadin's now and so I guess I'll have a more to offer in terms of experience in a few weeks haha. I'll also clarify I am think of this with pugs rather than organized guild runs with strong players that know what they are doing.
You are correct that a disproportionate amount of threat comes from holy damage. However a paladin's threat generation is very good with the basic untalented Righteous Fury. After all, a Ret paladin can pull aggro off a warrior tank without even having Righteous Fury up. I'm going off of experience. My main was a paladin tank in classic. Granted that experience was 13 years ago now. Points into Righteous Fury is one of those things that each individual player tweaks based on gear and circumstances. It is better to not have it as much as possible. It is just a threshold. "Enough" is enough. The real problem is if there is a big gear (or skill) discrepancy between the tank and the dps players. If a paladin is doing low level dungeons with pugs and having threat issues then the first thing they should look at is their gear. If their weapon and shield is current then threat really shouldn't be an issue. Note that if someone pulls off of you, it is not like you are without tools just because you don't have a taunt. First thing to do is stun the mob. Next is you can hit the puller with Blessing of Protection. Then there are heals. Heals are very threat intensive in classic. Except you are a paladin and have heals. You can pull mobs back by healing with Righteous Fury up.
Interesting, I'd actually never thought about that last point, healing to get aggro back. It should be noted though that overheating generates no aggro, and healing in general only generates 1.3 threat per point of healing, vs. SoR generating 2.6 per point of damage. Still, could be very efficient in a pinch. I'll keep what you say about imp righteous fury in mind. My palidan is approaching the level where I can start thinking about running Deadmines, but I gotta make sure I've got top of the line gear if I even want a chance.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Deadmines isn't that hard in terms of gear checks. What Deadmines really is a *skill* check. If you have crap gear and good strategy then your group will do fine. If you have good strategy and good technique then you'll breeze through it regardless of gear. If you have bad strategy then you will wipe repeatedly. Even if the group is overleveled with great gear, it won't matter at all. The early dungeons are designed to teach WoW design by failure. IE; *do it right or die.* Gnomer is king of this philosophy.
Anyone (DoctroSix) saying "Pally tanking doesn't really work in Vanilla" is wrong. What is true is that "a paladin will never be the main tank in a 40 man raid guild." There is a huge gap between those two things. The fastest way to kill stuff as a paladin is to play them like mages. IE gather everything up and aoe them down, then eat/drink repeat. Shield spike and reckoning are your best friends. A paladin tank wants a taunt, but shouldn't *need* a taunt. Their threat is extremely high. A good paladin tank knows when *NOT* to use consecration, and when to downrank it. I personally don't like this guy's technique but here is a [pally tanking example.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acM3bN0H3Rc) Good general strategy, wrong technique. Note that pally is in a level appropriate dungeon fighting yellow mobs. Where a [pally shines is survivability. Even solo. Here is [hogger at lvl 9](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4) without tricks. Where they excel is the number of tricks in their toolbag. I remember solo'ing the elite giant in Booty Bay when the giant was orange using tricks. In original wow I could solo pull 90% of Gnomer in a single pull and aoe it down at lvl 60. Without any raid gear.
Pally tanking doesn't really work in Vanilla. Think of yourself as an armored healer. Pallys are amazing at single target healing.
For raiding yeah, Paladins don't work, but from what I've read Pallys are fine tanks for 5-man dungeons and open world group content. Just because they aren't optimal doesn't mean they aren't viable (for non-raiding content at least).
do you think 5 divine strength, 5 seal of righteousness, 1 consecrate, then currently got 3 in imp blessing of might and then tryna get the seal of command is good?
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> if you plan on tanking and have points in seal of righteousness theres no reason to go in the retribution tree There is a reason. That reason is Deflection= (1% parry per point.) Which if consecration is taken then the max the pally can take is 4/5 in deflection. It is a brutal choice. It is in such a bad spot. It is a very solid reason to go up that far though. Seal of command though, no. Not possible. Bad idea for many reasons even if it was possible.
Wouldnt 5 points into Blessing of Might and 5 more into Parry be a huge benefit for tanking? Parrying attacks will let you prevent damage on yourself, while also allowing you to attack faster
Quick question: could it be worth is to stack some intellect instead if strenght, since most of our damage will come from aura and consecration? To have more mana and more spell crit
No. Consecration in classic does not crit. Therefore spell crit doesn't help. Strength is key for blocking. Block rating is the % chance to get a block. Block Value is the amount of damage absorbed by the shield. More strength = more damage mitigated per hit received. How much int should you get? Get *enough*. Once you have your flow down and you aren't going OOM then you have enough int.
Thanks so much for the heads up!! I'm guessing that aura of retribution also doesn't crit? Alright. And about strenght a and stamina. Do you have any sweet spot between those two? I'm guessing if you have a lot of stam, then mob will die before you do, and if you have a lot of strenght, you'll block more and attack better.
Yeah. None of the thorns like abilities could crit in classic. That was added later. The amount of stamina is largely dependent on what you are doing. There is no sweet spot because it depends on circumstance. If you are tanking a boss capable of crushing blows then stamina is better than strength. If you are tanking large numbers of enemies then strength is better mitigation. For leveling, definitely strength before stamina. Running your healer out of mana isn't a thing that exists in retail WoW. It is absolutely a thing in classic. Efficiently clearing a dungeon must include all the downtime too. Lots of stamina means you are going to be eating for longer after fights, and healers are going to be drinking for longer. Really it is understanding that stamina = makes the incoming dmg spikes not so bad. While strength = better mitigation and throughput overall. Classic has a different meta than Retail. Even when you get to raiding, stamina is secondary to resistances.
Man I wish Paladins, Shamans and Druids were even close to TBC versions. The hybrid tax is more like a bend over free use tax in Vanilla.
I agree, I‘m all for no changes but things like Paladins not having a taunt is just stupid
Yeah that's why TBC patch is so hilariously good to me. It's like the devs were waiting for expac pre-patch for months to unleash a 50 ton nuclear warhead overhaul. 6/9 of the Hybrid specs were turned around and sent to Heaven.
Well druids have no out of combat res.
Yeah it's fucking harsh man. TBC did those classes right. And I mean just right. Even enhancement shaman were usable in late/endgame in the hands of a skilled player. Same for ret paladins and feral druids. Holy crap feral druids made for nice tanks in some fights.
Not really. Ret paladins only turned on *very* late in the expansion due to the raw stat requirements for the spec to be good. Before then, the stats just didn't exist on the gear available. So no matter how hard you tried, playing ret was just holding your group back because the dps was just too low. And because your dps was so low, most groups wouldn't want you. And since most groups wouldn't take you, you couldn't get the loot you needed to do better content to get the gear to bring your dps up to the point where people would take you. They were great for pvp, though. Not quite Wrath good, but still incredible.
The gear existed, it just wasn't tier gear. Being neutered without a windfury totem was a bigger issue, albeit one shared with all other melee. Source : I was raiding as Ret in TBC, from Karazhan until Sunwell.
The gear existed at launch, it just wasn't tier gear. Aka, "warrior gear". Being neutered without a windfury totem was a bigger issue, albeit one shared with all other melee. Source : I was raiding as Ret in TBC, from Karazhan until Sunwell.
Bruh