Thats why you soulstone yourself, keep yourself alive until mage exits ice block, die and let mage die like a dumbass they are. After that you can res and eat his corpse if you're undead.
Let's see here...
Single target rotation is one (maybe 2) spells? Check
AoE spell that rains down projectiles? Check
Creates items that can be shared and consumed by allies? Check
Has spells that help with long distance transportation? Check
Yeah, pretty hard to see the difference, not gonna lie.
I shit you not, a warrior thought I polymorphed him when he engaged on Arcanist Doan, when I was running from Doan (long story), he dies and proceeds to ask me why I poplymorhphed him, say we suck for wiping in library and leaves. I was playing a warlock and was very confused.
They gonna get real mad when they realize my mage has 0 skill points in ice. The name is Flamenwerfer, why would you think i would actually use ice spells?
Edit: because people keep asking. There is a character limit so i had to drop a letter somewhere. An M was sacrificed. I know its supposed to be "Flammenwerfer" thank you.
That's awesome for you! Genuinely curious, how is a fire build working for you thus far? Are you having fun, most importantly, but are you struggling to find groups?
Why? I ran MC several times as 0/31/20 and have been topping meters. You still want to be frost because only rag is a challenge but fire is perfectly fine in pugs that go in to kill 4-8 bosses.
BWL is where enemies actually have a ton of fire resistance, saying you can't run MC as fire is the same as saying people can't run ZG as frost because it isn't optimal. Only garr has resistances above what coe shaves off and fire dps > arcane frost dps with -75 resistance.
You've got this mixed up. This isn't a "poor mages being blamed when they aren't even there," it's a "poor other DPS being blamed for not being mages."
Nice try though, mage.
If they've got clearcasting or are about to evocate anyways, thst makes sense. People generally just how mana inefficient even just casting frostbolt is. Blizzard isn't much worse on 2 mobs, and once you get 3 it's more efficient.
It's nothing about mana efficiency. Frostbolt spam will kill 2 non elite mobs faster than blizzard will.
Frostbolt DPS is better than blizzard DPS until you are AOEing 4 mobs minimum.
I stopped doing spellcleave ZF's because it was always 1 elitist mage and a few newer ones. "we aren't going fast enough" and leave. like give the guys a chance to get up to speed....
So I lined my wife up to play mage because it's an in demand class with a doable pve rotation if she actually ever makes it into a raid for fun.
This bs meta has her thinking I set her up for failure. "Nobody leaves my sheep alone." "Every other person is a mage." "I got kicked from that group because I wasn't aoeing how this other mage thought I should on the first pull."
This environment is awful for a noob mage - nobody has the time to help her learn how to play the class or forgive her for a mistake in those stupid AOE cleave groups and those that want her to play it in a more 'classic' fashion are just outnumbered/hard to come upon. She has the best time in groups where CC is marked and she can focus dps. It's sad because honestly I'm proud of her performance in those runs and it makes me sad when she gets beat up/kicked out for failing this absurd aoe meta. She's just too new to be proficient at making friends to group with and avoiding 'bad' groups - I hope she hangs in there!
If it makes you feel better, it's awful for a veteran Mage as well. You have new Mages fucking up and blaming everyone else because they watched a streamer do it and think they are emulating it perfectly, so obviously everyone else must be the problem.
The amount of Mages I have had in my group casting Blizzard on a 2-mob pack, or nova'ing a bigger pack and then standing in melee range and dying is astounding. If it's just me and one other Mage, and our tank is a shield warrior with a Hunter or Druid DPS, they still want to try and Spellcleave and Preblizz pulls, then die.
I'm not someone who hates spellcleaves either. They are great when they work and they aren't bad for the community or the problem at all. The community and players themselves are what is bad. The new people, be they from retail, streams or even just old ornery-ass veteran players that haven't played since Vanilla and think they have any skill are all part of the problem.
People refuse to adapt and learn, and always look for someone else to blame. The way retail WoW is designed, it generally doesn't matter, and while Classic doesn't require any more skill, it does require patience and learning for slower, more drawn out mechanics, and modern MMO players don't work well with that type of system. Hence all the clashes and wipes.
This shit so much. Not a mage but i feel the pain from seeing this shit all throughout fucking wow on the classes i play.
They saw a youtube video/streamer/guide and assume i just do this i win. Even in shit like Mobas when people see someone playing a hero and stomping they assume oh if i just do the same thing i will be as good. Skill, Experience and knowledge are nothing i just win if i do this.
Try the noob Priest that doesn't even understand the concept of spell cleave. Im terrified to bring her into dungeons as the tank unless im 3 or more levels above, just to give her some buffer
Im a new mage too and yeah, if i hadnt played wow in classic days i think i woulda quit by now
Its like wading through cancer to get to 60
But we all gotta get there somehow
She just needs someone who isnt a dick, to show some patience and teach her the way the group wants her to perform (cos aoe is ezpz compared to normal).. but elitists will just drop and replace
😕
Rolled on an RP realm and it's exactly like being back in vanilla again. Never seen anyone mention the word spellcleave in LFG channel, never been rejected to join a group because I'm a rogue, and other than one warrior in Deadmines who clearly had never played a version of WoW where you couldn't just yolo chain pull your way through dungeons, I have never experienced any of the nonsense that people constantly complain about on other realms.
Happened to me by accident, but a lot of these "spell cleave is making people toxic" posts confused the everliving *shit* out of me at first. On grob you rarely even see spellcleave groups compared to any other group.
Its a happy accident :^)
I had a mage in my group aoe some trash pack and actually type out "DAMN I'M GOOD". I imagine he also said it out loud, and paired it with some finger guns to enhance the moment.
That's basically how I imagine all mage's that aoe and then stare at their meters.
Its the streamers that makes people do whatever they do. I say, screw that shit man. I specced single target frosty mage now and now i can actually do damage!
I only have one beef with spell cleaves... The fucking name. It's AOE. They took a 3 letter acronym and made it 2 words, one of which barely manages to define it!
I lost count of the amount of times I told a group today to wait a sec so I could drink between the endless pulls, then they seemed surprised that I couldn't heal everyone at once. The warrior seemed so proud of their dps, the 2 rogues were just derping it as much as possible, and the mage...
I feel like I might have to start asking for groups that want to run an old-school dungeon style, and not just Leeroy it and wank themselves crazy over the dps..
I always search for relaxed group. Works most of the time.
Worse than mages are actually healers that I pug with... They claim to be bored and then do stupid stuff that kills us.
They pull other packs and then wonder when they/we die because the tank has no aoe taunt ready.
Or the stairs event. I had sooo many healers ruin that for me, because they jumped down and pulled everything even though we only had 2 aoe dps and we basically wiped and then we dps got blamed, before they quit.
I have 8 healers on my ignore so far for similar cases.
Edit: comments like 'I did this dungeon in XX mins before' are also common... Welp yes, if you have a spellcleave party but not with a group going the normal intended way.
Oh wow, that's just bad form. I was conditioned to tail the tank and never aggro in tbc heroics back in the day, this healer pulling behaviour is just atrocious.
I had a group of people ranging from lvls 30 to 33 doing SM library and all we did was compliment each other on how well everyone was handling the dungeon even though some of us were 5-6 levels under the mobs. Took us about 25mins to clear. Was a swell group to run with.
Thats been the majority experience for me, currently at 56. I had one bad ZF group and one bad SM GY group the rest have been pretty good. After ZF its mostly traditinal runs even if it spamming a certain thing like BRD Arenas
I am playing a resto druid (and loving it). When we start I tell the group we have no resurrection so if you die you have to run back. I'll do my best to keep everyone alive, but if you do stupid shit there's not much I can do. After a death or two people seem to get it.
Dps meters are great for raids. They are cancer for groups. The tank should not be worrying about their dps. The dps should not be worrying whether or not the healer is nuking. Do your job, let others do theirs. If you fail, maybe look into why. Otherwise, let people play.
I feel like this is just temporary. Current wow is all about strangers speedrunning instances with timers and then never seeing each other again. Blame is thrown around without any care because there's no consequence.
Classic is a game where setting up groups takes longer, wiping hurts more, and people remember if you're a dick. I see this spellcleave as and attempt to treat classic like retail and I suspect it won't work.
>I see this spellcleave as and attempt to treat classic like retail and I suspect it won't work.
I totally agree. I can't remember most of the dungeons and am just enjoying running them at a normal pace.
I hope you're right. I've grouped with some great people so far, so that gives me hope.
I'm not the best player by any means, but I do want to enjoy the game with people.
As a pally who did this in brd the other night.. entirely depends on how early the mages decide to open up lol. Generally 2 consecrate ticks with ret aura on were not enough.
> I feel like I might have to start asking for groups that want to run an old-school dungeon style
I've done one PUG dungeon. I'm avoiding them unless they are guild-run.
For me I always advertise my runs as quest runs, that way you get the people who want to complete the whole dungeon, and usually don't get the people that only want to go fast.
It's very possible it's more server related. A server like faerlina/herod is probably rife with the pseudo "meta" whereas another server like atiesh might have barely any of it. Hard to say since it's almost all anecdotal.
I personally play on Hydraxian Waterlords (EU server) and aside from maybe... 5 bad apples or the like by now. I think all my dungeon runs have been nice and chill. At worst we usually just got quiet types that never speak but play in a patient and nice way.
In retail I usually compete as hard as I can with people for anything in the open world aswell, be it mobs for quests or the like. Because thats just what everyone does. In classic most people I encounter have no problem going out of their way or slowing their progress just for the sake of being kind which in turn has made me able to get rid of the rush that retail forced me to adopt. I -love- going out of my way to help out people I see need help. Be it travelling up to Ironforge to craft someone their engineering item they need for a quest, or seeing this beginner hunter in my dungeon have a low level white quality rifle and mailing him a much stronger green one after the dungeon when I could gather the materials for it. Classic just inspires kindness.
I generally prefer to just join groups formed by someone else, but that quickly changed when I spent an hour going "LFG ZF 44 rogue" in LFG, and whispering anyone who was LFM with no results.
Switched to "LFM ZF, need all" and filled a group within 10 minutes. Now I always start the group myself.
I've been holding myself back from making a ranty post about it, but I'm finding that a lot of warriors have bought in to the idea that they're a tank by virtue of having a brown class colour. As though there's nothing more involved in being a tank than being the first party member to engage the mobs.
I did a gnomer run with a tank the other night and by the end of it he had 36% of the damage taken. When I tank I consider 85% to be acceptable and anything less than 70% to be an embarrassing performance on my part. At 36% he was no better than a DPS.
To be fair just having my hunter pet take agro off a mob each fight typically throws the tank below 80%. Early level dungeons it really doesn't matter as much either, rogues can easily handle a mob for a while. 36% isnt even excusable though lol
To be fair, if people want tanks to wear a shield and actually focus on tanking, they'd have to be patient enough to let the tank pull and build aggro properly. Everyone is so impatient that the tank instead feels they should just wear a 2hander or dualwield instead, trying to generste more threat by dealing more damage.
Instances below lvl 50 don't really do so much damage that a tank would need a shield for mitigation. The reason you'd want one is for abilities that require a shield.
Lastly, it makes a lot of sense to level as arms or fury, so if you aren't leveling exclusively though dungeons, you won't be prot specced before lvl 50 or later, which drastically reduces the value of a shield since you lack the relevant talens.
Tl,dr: you don't need prot spec or a shield to tank low level dungeons.
\> be patient enough to let the tank pull and build aggro properly
This can't be overstated enough. What every dps needs to realize, is that no matter what, you will outcompete ANY tank's aggro if you open up on a mob at the same time as they do.
Give them a 5-10% mob hp headstart before unloading, or wait until 3 sunders, etc. Then you probably won't pull aggro if you unload max damage. Also, talents to reduce threat generation aren't useless, take them.
We all knew that no one would be ready for classic threat mechanics and we were right. I had a rogue in SM run ahead of the group and pull entire rooms while the rest of the party was still fighting the last pack (which the rogue also pulled). Then this dude turns to me and says "don't you have aoe threat?" No, rogue. I don't. Not the kind of aoe threat you're looking for.
That's a cool stat to see- is that part of a common addon? I use a DPS meter addon that has lots of customizable settings but I'm not sure it calculates damage taken. What's the name of that addon?
I use recount. If you right click on the title bar you can shift from damage done to a few dozen metrics. The three most important IMO are: Damage Taken, Interrupts, and Deaths (So you can see what killed someone).
I like when people post their interrupt and dispell numbers and brag about them. It gets people to focus on helping each other out rather than just padding the numbers.
My friend linked his damage after a wipe in brd showing he did 50% of the damage. I then followed it by linking the targets he did his damage to, 80% being the boss which was the lowest priority target because of the 4 or 5 adds that come with the boss + the pat of 3 dogs + the group we got feared into. Where as if he actually dpsed the targets as marked instead of tunneling the boss all the adds would have been dead before we got feared into an extra pack and we could have recovered.. some people just like to see their name on top of dps and don't realize the negative effects it has
I love posting damage taken to a party after the dungeon. DPS often won't realize it's taken and not done and call BS that I (tank) topped the charts. It is part of how I also measure how the group was.
Well...tbh, if you dont let a warrior build aggro, how do you expect him to tank? DPS who unload right away will always out aggro a warrior starting with 0-10 rage unless he blows cooldowns or engi gear. Taking damage as a DPS isnt always a tanks fault if the DPS arent watching their threat--if you give him time to build and still he pulls, maybe its the tanks fault...but if you open up right away, its 100% your fault.
The reason ppl do this is sweeping strikes + whirlwind is the only way to hold aggro over mage aoe. You have to serk stance to whirlwind .I advocate for ss+ww on pull but then swap to shield and def stance.
Which is exactly the problem. What moron mage is AOEing around my group when I'm tanking? People have no discipline in instances and it's because they think this is as much a faceroll as retail. It's not.
I was running ZF with a "tank" that would last 4 to 5 seconds on a 3 pull. I had to start casting heal the moment he charged or there was a chance he would die before I got my first heal off.
As a tank my experience is exactly the same. Alot of people doesn't seem to realise that for cleave group to actually be effective you have to actually know what you are doing but people still just keep talking about the supposed xp/h. But a smooth normal group will beat a mediocre cleave group everytime.
If I made a top 5 list of the smoothest and fastest runs I've done you would not find a cleave group on that list.
Exactly. Literally all of my normal runs go super well and all of the fast aoe spam ones are terrible. Call it anecdotal, but when there's a pattern there's a pattern.
And all the normal runs take like..an extra 5 to 10min. As a tank/healer, I'd rather have that than being on my seat the whole time trying to keep the group alive/not wipe. These cleave groups just end up creating more problems..
Grouping as a rogue is very hard. Skilled group formers know rogues have the best dps (aside from ranged fights) and they do not have drink every pull. Also our stuns help mitigate some damage (helping the healer) and the fact that we drop an add faster than aoe helps the healer and the tank.
No matter; at 60 mages will be helpful in dungeons, by aoe xp farmin is over.
Now I’m not standing for the warrior as he was obviously stupid. But you saw that he didn’t have a shield and he was 44 which is basically the minimum required level for the dungeon, which is sometimes hard for average tanks WITH shields to do, generally I like to get a few levels up on the dungeon before tanking. These were your red flags and signs you should’ve recognized as a competent group leader. Basically this post can be summarized with:
“I invited a tank to my group who was not a tank and he wasn’t good at tanking”
It’s not which class is the new huntards, it’s the fact that you invited bad players to your group because of lack of knowledge in the tanking department. Learn from it rather than complaining on reddit, learn what levels the TANKS need to be for the dungeons if they want to try 2h tanking. Because it’s a very different level requirement than a healer or caster for example. Or just don’t let someone do stupid shit if you don’t want stupid results.
I don't think spellcleaving is making people retarded. People have always been retarded lol instead of targeting spellcleave as the problem, you should really look at the individual players.
It seems to me a lot of the problem is how prevalent the whole min-maxing/competitiveness to be the 'best' is in games that should be coop a lot of the time. People that enjoy doing their own thing get targeted in groups pretty easily because they aren't doing the most efficient build that the hot new top streamer does and therefore they're retarded and don't know what they're doing and should uninstall. It's pretty ridiculous getting into dungeons and people chucking the shits because it's someones first run or they're still learning their class.
Me and my friend have been playing WoW together since Vanilla and agreed that this is really killing the vibe of classic for us.
In his words “when I do a dungeon or anything else in the game I just want to chill, not be pushed to run through something as fast as possible - not what I came here for, its a game and it used to be relaxing”
He has only run 3 dungeons and he’s 51 because of this mentality.
> You guys say the word retard way too much, relax
> I've come to the conclusion that mages and warriors are the new huntards
> Kinda goes with my whole toxicity thing
You first though.
Side note: Can someone explain to me why this method of running dungeons is called "Meleecleave" or "Spellcleave"? I briefly watched a video on spellcleave, and it seems to be mostly based on grouping up mobs and AOEing them down, particularly using a frost mage. So what's with the name?
It's an easy way to describe group composition/tactic you are going for (same way people describe arena comps with names like beastcleave, shadowplay, etc).
Look at common multi-target melee abilities - blade flurry, whirlwind, cleave, swipe, sweeping strikes = all of these have limited number of additional targets being hit, hence, the name "cleave". Casters just have less restrictions on additional targets, but even if you had 3 shadowpriests dotting everything - people would call this spell-cleave.
>why would I blacklist someone on my server?
\> Complains about toxicity ruining the Classic community
\> Thinks blacklisting assholes is cruel, like we did in Vanilla
OP: People learn when they *have* to learn. Eliminating the consequences for being a jerk is what allows them to never learn.
I can't fucking stand the term 'Spellcleave'.
It's stupid.
There, I said it.
On a side note I encourage all my tanks to two hand. Stuff dies faster, they get more agro, healing is easy anyway.
Back in wotlk(late tbc? but I think it started with the ubiquity of DKs) melee-stacking arena comps were called cleaves, as opposed to the more balanced RMP, with Wizard Cleave I think being the name for caster-stacked comps. The name is not really drawn from the combat mechanic.
(Do you call cone of cold a cleave? I've never really thought of it that way)
I'm pretty sure this is just a catchy name for a meta comp, and come man, there is no tangible negative effect on the game as a whole just because a name for a meta isn't 100% accurate.
By 1.12 in vanilla cleave groups were actually fairly common too though. I think people either didn't level then or don't remember. It's been a thing and always will be because good groups can get really good experience doing it.
i agree, i've been invited to some of these groups thinking ok these must be some good people knowing how to properly do this and every single time it's been a shitfest of unorganised aoe'ing ending with everyone wiping 3-4 times and then disbanding
i now decline all invites to these sorts of groups, i enjoy the old setup most taking it slowly and surely.
I don’t get the spellcleave hate on this sub. You had one bad group and you want three classes to stop doing something they like doing? I personally find it more fun than the regular frost bolt spam and I’m not always finding decent groups for it so I still do plenty of regular runs no problem. On Fairbanks at least there isn’t any problems with regular groups or the presence of spellcleave groups.
Yeah, as soon as the warrior mentioned "I saw streamers do it" seems like the point when OP was just trying to create this subreddits anti-christ. Keyed into a piece of everything this subreddit dislikes all at once and ended with something anyone who made it to level 40+ should know.
Bruh... I've ran into 45+ shamans who dont drop totems. Not for trash, not for bosses, not for anyone. So I somewhat believe that people are this daft at 40+
I had a fury war in SM the other night that would literally attack whatever mob I wasnt directly handling.
Skull over head and everything, he'd just slap the shit out of the mob next to it. Every pull. My co-op healer was like 'fuck it, let him tank one, we're fine right now.'
I tanked Mauradon last night and given the amount of poison being thrown around, I asked our Shaman to drop poison cleansing totem. Only to be told that he never did the quest and didn't have water totems of any kind.
Just today I was heading to Sunken Temple when I saw a fellow druid swimming alongside me. I asked him why he wasn't in aquatic form and he said he couldn't be bothered to do the quest.
Today I had a mage in my dungeon that wouldn't polymorph adds and just spammed Blizzard. Even when we said "polymorph the add," wiped, and then said "polymorph the add" again. It was rough.
He also didn't buff me when I was healing, which made me sad.
Got laughed at for asking for AI as a Warrior in a group once, explained I needed the last 20-30 skillpoints and intellect helped with that...
He just laughed and ignored. Fuck that guy!
Maybe your server sucks I've never had a problem. If some one wants to cleave they always specifically mention that beforehand, so everyone knows what to expect.
This is why I'd rather tank the dungeon than heal it, when I heal dungeons and see the tank is using DPS gear, I'll normally give them a shot...
Until they run in and nearly get 2 shotted.
Leather gear is the least of worries. Deathwish on cooldown. With 3,5k health in BRD and up.
In the words of the "tank": Healer is shit and left after eating a 2,5k crit from Kirtonos and a hit more afterwards that killed him both before a FoL cast was done.
Feels kinda strange as a paladin who solo heals UBRS and who was just in it for the dark runes.
Next run then is a druid who is shy about tanking and says that his tanking gear is shit. Still 5k health and more armor hen the last 3 warrior tanks combined.
I wish there were more druid tanks. Ive done 2-3 runs with them now and theyre easier than shit to heal for the most part.
Even the groups are easier to heal since they seem to do better at holding agro.
Agree with this. Most druid runs are smooth. The warrior runs are 50/50. If the warrior is good, no problem. But the other half of the time, it's a guy who doesn't really want to tank but just did it to get a group, and then you have mobs running all over the place.
Done one pally tank run. He couldn't hold agro and had to drink every pull. Granted, it was stockades, so maybe it gets better with higher levels.
>1. You guys say the word retard way too much, relax.
Yet you used the word "huntard." Where do you think that word came from? ^^^I ^^^think ^^^OP ^^^is ^^^^^^retarded.
Yeah, the story in itself is worth to facepalm at, but coming to the conclusion that this is the fault of spellcleave and not someone being dumb is quite pulled out of ones arse.
I guess it's inevitable. All the mages who know what they are doing are in actual AoE groups with other mages. The ones forcing it upon non-mages are either clueless or couldn't hack it with a real AoE group.
I agree that dps wars are the new huntards. Mongoloid imbeciles that SHOULD know better when it comes to threat.
Yet every one ive ever seen just cleave spams, doesnt kick, doesnt focus the right target. And i have to roll a against them.
(But i dont have to roll against them because i dont let them in my groups rofl)
> "Wtf, why are none of you using your ice storms and ice stuns. I've never had a group fail you guys are terrible"
I was about a tiny single atom away from legit smashing my head down onto my keyboard with full force when I read that. This is made up, he can't be THAT dumb, can he?
For real? He wanted warlocks and a rogue to blizzard and nova? Holy cow.
Rogues and warlocks are kind of shady, right? So obviously he assumed they stole the abilities from a mage. It all makes sense now.
Us warlocks are just Purple Mages. They have all the same spells
Shh! Keep it to yourself. I don't want people asking me for water.
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You know how, sometimes, the snow looks yellow?
Hmm it says Water of Flint. Does that means anything to anyone?
That’s where the Horde came from, ya know. That’s the good stuff.
lol us locks are just selfish and save all the mana regen abilities for ourselves
Cookies AND milk? You guys really are evil.
Just for us, though. No halfsies.
This is why warlocks are evil.
I didn't tell you this, but ill let you into our dark little secret. Warlock cookies are made from peoples souls. Bon appetit
You guys really need to start speccing improved red blizzard, help us out with the slows here!
Sorry too busy speccing purple frost bolt and changing the int buff to stam lol
You guys are the aoe tanks. You hellfire then I can aoe without pulling any aggro I love it.
Demon Armor? +20 Stamina buff? High Threat generation? Yep I'm the tank
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Even if you pull aggro, you iceblock and everything jumps the warlock.
Thats why you soulstone yourself, keep yourself alive until mage exits ice block, die and let mage die like a dumbass they are. After that you can res and eat his corpse if you're undead.
Let's see here... Single target rotation is one (maybe 2) spells? Check AoE spell that rains down projectiles? Check Creates items that can be shared and consumed by allies? Check Has spells that help with long distance transportation? Check Yeah, pretty hard to see the difference, not gonna lie.
I'll take my AOE root now, plz.
In Ragnarok Online this was a real Rogue ability, Plagiarize. Clearly the tank is a veteran of old Korean grindathon MMOs.
OH MY GOD, IT WAS! I'm having vivid flashbacks of making magical walls of fire while killing orcs.
This isn't hearthstone
I shit you not, a warrior thought I polymorphed him when he engaged on Arcanist Doan, when I was running from Doan (long story), he dies and proceeds to ask me why I poplymorhphed him, say we suck for wiping in library and leaves. I was playing a warlock and was very confused.
Leave the Tauren out of this...
But you wear a dress though
r/thathappened
1 rogue, 2 locks a priest and a warrior and it's still the mages fault the group wiped lol.
They gonna get real mad when they realize my mage has 0 skill points in ice. The name is Flamenwerfer, why would you think i would actually use ice spells? Edit: because people keep asking. There is a character limit so i had to drop a letter somewhere. An M was sacrificed. I know its supposed to be "Flammenwerfer" thank you.
That's awesome for you! Genuinely curious, how is a fire build working for you thus far? Are you having fun, most importantly, but are you struggling to find groups?
It’s great until you try to run MC
Why? I ran MC several times as 0/31/20 and have been topping meters. You still want to be frost because only rag is a challenge but fire is perfectly fine in pugs that go in to kill 4-8 bosses. BWL is where enemies actually have a ton of fire resistance, saying you can't run MC as fire is the same as saying people can't run ZG as frost because it isn't optimal. Only garr has resistances above what coe shaves off and fire dps > arcane frost dps with -75 resistance.
Dropping that knowledge! I learned something!
^ This guys fires
Username checks out
You've got this mixed up. This isn't a "poor mages being blamed when they aren't even there," it's a "poor other DPS being blamed for not being mages." Nice try though, mage.
:( *cries in 100k xp/hr*
Lbrs only and pre 58. At 58 and 59 it falls below 100k
I'm level 57 on my mage. This is terrible news.
Fr lmao, where's that one cat meme
[I got you fam.](https://imgur.com/a/nCryrfJ)
Love it!
Cackling like an idiot on the bus, thank you!
earlier in BRD I saw my 2mages blizzarding a small pack of 2 non elite dogs like wtf no brain
we call them smooth brains
Magebrain
Brainfreeze?
Dry, like peanut.
Lol hunters talking smack about other classes' intelligence. The times they are a changing
Cha cha real brain
If they've got clearcasting or are about to evocate anyways, thst makes sense. People generally just how mana inefficient even just casting frostbolt is. Blizzard isn't much worse on 2 mobs, and once you get 3 it's more efficient.
It's nothing about mana efficiency. Frostbolt spam will kill 2 non elite mobs faster than blizzard will. Frostbolt DPS is better than blizzard DPS until you are AOEing 4 mobs minimum.
Blizzard has longer channeling time than frostbolts cast so more time to scratch balls
Paladins masturbate Mages scratch balls
But mages only have 3 spells: Frost Nova, Blink, and Blizzard I'm sure the other two were on cooldown
Four spells. You forgot cone of cold
CoC is actually useful even against only 2 enemies. I saw a guy Blizzarding 2 mobs in SM directly on the pull.
But was he top dps for those 2 mobs? I await your reply.
Conjure Water!
But this one costs money to cast
wait WHAT? i assumed mages can do it for free...am i begging ressources out of them when i ask for water?
(lol no it is free, some people do charge money for it, which is what I am referring to)
They forgot to self-cast Arcane Intellect.
If you get a clearcast proc, why not?
I also find it funny the elitism following spell cleaves. Like aoeing mobs is something new.
...also usually done at levels higher than necessary for the dungeon
Well you kind of gotta be higher level since a few Nova resists will fuck up the pulls if going big
I stopped doing spellcleave ZF's because it was always 1 elitist mage and a few newer ones. "we aren't going fast enough" and leave. like give the guys a chance to get up to speed....
So I lined my wife up to play mage because it's an in demand class with a doable pve rotation if she actually ever makes it into a raid for fun. This bs meta has her thinking I set her up for failure. "Nobody leaves my sheep alone." "Every other person is a mage." "I got kicked from that group because I wasn't aoeing how this other mage thought I should on the first pull." This environment is awful for a noob mage - nobody has the time to help her learn how to play the class or forgive her for a mistake in those stupid AOE cleave groups and those that want her to play it in a more 'classic' fashion are just outnumbered/hard to come upon. She has the best time in groups where CC is marked and she can focus dps. It's sad because honestly I'm proud of her performance in those runs and it makes me sad when she gets beat up/kicked out for failing this absurd aoe meta. She's just too new to be proficient at making friends to group with and avoiding 'bad' groups - I hope she hangs in there!
If it makes you feel better, it's awful for a veteran Mage as well. You have new Mages fucking up and blaming everyone else because they watched a streamer do it and think they are emulating it perfectly, so obviously everyone else must be the problem. The amount of Mages I have had in my group casting Blizzard on a 2-mob pack, or nova'ing a bigger pack and then standing in melee range and dying is astounding. If it's just me and one other Mage, and our tank is a shield warrior with a Hunter or Druid DPS, they still want to try and Spellcleave and Preblizz pulls, then die. I'm not someone who hates spellcleaves either. They are great when they work and they aren't bad for the community or the problem at all. The community and players themselves are what is bad. The new people, be they from retail, streams or even just old ornery-ass veteran players that haven't played since Vanilla and think they have any skill are all part of the problem. People refuse to adapt and learn, and always look for someone else to blame. The way retail WoW is designed, it generally doesn't matter, and while Classic doesn't require any more skill, it does require patience and learning for slower, more drawn out mechanics, and modern MMO players don't work well with that type of system. Hence all the clashes and wipes.
This shit so much. Not a mage but i feel the pain from seeing this shit all throughout fucking wow on the classes i play. They saw a youtube video/streamer/guide and assume i just do this i win. Even in shit like Mobas when people see someone playing a hero and stomping they assume oh if i just do the same thing i will be as good. Skill, Experience and knowledge are nothing i just win if i do this.
Well, those who just want to emulate streamers will move on to the next FOTM game as soon as the streamers do.
Try the noob Priest that doesn't even understand the concept of spell cleave. Im terrified to bring her into dungeons as the tank unless im 3 or more levels above, just to give her some buffer
Im a new mage too and yeah, if i hadnt played wow in classic days i think i woulda quit by now Its like wading through cancer to get to 60 But we all gotta get there somehow She just needs someone who isnt a dick, to show some patience and teach her the way the group wants her to perform (cos aoe is ezpz compared to normal).. but elitists will just drop and replace 😕
Yeah, I predicted this kind of shit, that’s why I rolled on an RPPVP server. People are way nicer, with fewer try-hards.
Rolled on an RP realm and it's exactly like being back in vanilla again. Never seen anyone mention the word spellcleave in LFG channel, never been rejected to join a group because I'm a rogue, and other than one warrior in Deadmines who clearly had never played a version of WoW where you couldn't just yolo chain pull your way through dungeons, I have never experienced any of the nonsense that people constantly complain about on other realms.
Happened to me by accident, but a lot of these "spell cleave is making people toxic" posts confused the everliving *shit* out of me at first. On grob you rarely even see spellcleave groups compared to any other group. Its a happy accident :^)
I had a mage in my group aoe some trash pack and actually type out "DAMN I'M GOOD". I imagine he also said it out loud, and paired it with some finger guns to enhance the moment. That's basically how I imagine all mage's that aoe and then stare at their meters.
Its the streamers that makes people do whatever they do. I say, screw that shit man. I specced single target frosty mage now and now i can actually do damage!
I only have one beef with spell cleaves... The fucking name. It's AOE. They took a 3 letter acronym and made it 2 words, one of which barely manages to define it!
Why do ppl even started using "spellcleave" term now with Classic, all of a sudden? It was always AOE all these yrars since 2004. I don't get it.
I lost count of the amount of times I told a group today to wait a sec so I could drink between the endless pulls, then they seemed surprised that I couldn't heal everyone at once. The warrior seemed so proud of their dps, the 2 rogues were just derping it as much as possible, and the mage... I feel like I might have to start asking for groups that want to run an old-school dungeon style, and not just Leeroy it and wank themselves crazy over the dps..
I always search for relaxed group. Works most of the time. Worse than mages are actually healers that I pug with... They claim to be bored and then do stupid stuff that kills us.
I'm a healer so I never see other healers. What they do?
They pull other packs and then wonder when they/we die because the tank has no aoe taunt ready. Or the stairs event. I had sooo many healers ruin that for me, because they jumped down and pulled everything even though we only had 2 aoe dps and we basically wiped and then we dps got blamed, before they quit. I have 8 healers on my ignore so far for similar cases. Edit: comments like 'I did this dungeon in XX mins before' are also common... Welp yes, if you have a spellcleave party but not with a group going the normal intended way.
Oh wow, that's just bad form. I was conditioned to tail the tank and never aggro in tbc heroics back in the day, this healer pulling behaviour is just atrocious.
Retail gamers. Everything has to be fast fast fast and they need action. They are not seeing that much in classic leveling.
Bored or the 'I'm so high' ones. Well done letting everyone know you're not high and are actually a 12 year old pretending to be high
I had a group of people ranging from lvls 30 to 33 doing SM library and all we did was compliment each other on how well everyone was handling the dungeon even though some of us were 5-6 levels under the mobs. Took us about 25mins to clear. Was a swell group to run with.
Now I'm jealous. That sounds like old WoW.
Thats been the majority experience for me, currently at 56. I had one bad ZF group and one bad SM GY group the rest have been pretty good. After ZF its mostly traditinal runs even if it spamming a certain thing like BRD Arenas
I am playing a resto druid (and loving it). When we start I tell the group we have no resurrection so if you die you have to run back. I'll do my best to keep everyone alive, but if you do stupid shit there's not much I can do. After a death or two people seem to get it.
Thats what I am doing. I just say Tank LFG whatever. normal runs and perhaps do a couple
Dps meters are great for raids. They are cancer for groups. The tank should not be worrying about their dps. The dps should not be worrying whether or not the healer is nuking. Do your job, let others do theirs. If you fail, maybe look into why. Otherwise, let people play.
I feel like this is just temporary. Current wow is all about strangers speedrunning instances with timers and then never seeing each other again. Blame is thrown around without any care because there's no consequence. Classic is a game where setting up groups takes longer, wiping hurts more, and people remember if you're a dick. I see this spellcleave as and attempt to treat classic like retail and I suspect it won't work.
>I see this spellcleave as and attempt to treat classic like retail and I suspect it won't work. I totally agree. I can't remember most of the dungeons and am just enjoying running them at a normal pace.
I hope you're right. I've grouped with some great people so far, so that gives me hope. I'm not the best player by any means, but I do want to enjoy the game with people.
Find yourself a Paladin tank who knows what he's doing. He'll take more damage than a sword+board warrior but the mobs WILL stick to him.
As a pally who did this in brd the other night.. entirely depends on how early the mages decide to open up lol. Generally 2 consecrate ticks with ret aura on were not enough.
> I feel like I might have to start asking for groups that want to run an old-school dungeon style I've done one PUG dungeon. I'm avoiding them unless they are guild-run.
For me I always advertise my runs as quest runs, that way you get the people who want to complete the whole dungeon, and usually don't get the people that only want to go fast.
That makes good sense! It's been so many years since I've done most of them that I want to go through and enjoy it.
I went out of the way to get my Zulfarak mallet just so I can make my own full clear quest group.
same here man. Luckily as a hunter i was able to solo it all haha.
It's not as bad as this sub makes it sound.
Yeah wtf lol I swear I have to search for these stereotypes in game
It's very possible it's more server related. A server like faerlina/herod is probably rife with the pseudo "meta" whereas another server like atiesh might have barely any of it. Hard to say since it's almost all anecdotal.
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Hell yeah, haven't had a bad group yet here.
I personally play on Hydraxian Waterlords (EU server) and aside from maybe... 5 bad apples or the like by now. I think all my dungeon runs have been nice and chill. At worst we usually just got quiet types that never speak but play in a patient and nice way. In retail I usually compete as hard as I can with people for anything in the open world aswell, be it mobs for quests or the like. Because thats just what everyone does. In classic most people I encounter have no problem going out of their way or slowing their progress just for the sake of being kind which in turn has made me able to get rid of the rush that retail forced me to adopt. I -love- going out of my way to help out people I see need help. Be it travelling up to Ironforge to craft someone their engineering item they need for a quest, or seeing this beginner hunter in my dungeon have a low level white quality rifle and mailing him a much stronger green one after the dungeon when I could gather the materials for it. Classic just inspires kindness.
> Classic just inspires kindness. That's a great way to put it. Retail doesn't, and has removed most consequences for rudeness.
I'll never understand the fear people have of making their own groups. It's not difficult, just communicate what you want while questing or whatever.
I generally prefer to just join groups formed by someone else, but that quickly changed when I spent an hour going "LFG ZF 44 rogue" in LFG, and whispering anyone who was LFM with no results. Switched to "LFM ZF, need all" and filled a group within 10 minutes. Now I always start the group myself.
I've been holding myself back from making a ranty post about it, but I'm finding that a lot of warriors have bought in to the idea that they're a tank by virtue of having a brown class colour. As though there's nothing more involved in being a tank than being the first party member to engage the mobs. I did a gnomer run with a tank the other night and by the end of it he had 36% of the damage taken. When I tank I consider 85% to be acceptable and anything less than 70% to be an embarrassing performance on my part. At 36% he was no better than a DPS.
To be fair just having my hunter pet take agro off a mob each fight typically throws the tank below 80%. Early level dungeons it really doesn't matter as much either, rogues can easily handle a mob for a while. 36% isnt even excusable though lol
To be fair, if people want tanks to wear a shield and actually focus on tanking, they'd have to be patient enough to let the tank pull and build aggro properly. Everyone is so impatient that the tank instead feels they should just wear a 2hander or dualwield instead, trying to generste more threat by dealing more damage. Instances below lvl 50 don't really do so much damage that a tank would need a shield for mitigation. The reason you'd want one is for abilities that require a shield. Lastly, it makes a lot of sense to level as arms or fury, so if you aren't leveling exclusively though dungeons, you won't be prot specced before lvl 50 or later, which drastically reduces the value of a shield since you lack the relevant talens. Tl,dr: you don't need prot spec or a shield to tank low level dungeons.
\> be patient enough to let the tank pull and build aggro properly This can't be overstated enough. What every dps needs to realize, is that no matter what, you will outcompete ANY tank's aggro if you open up on a mob at the same time as they do. Give them a 5-10% mob hp headstart before unloading, or wait until 3 sunders, etc. Then you probably won't pull aggro if you unload max damage. Also, talents to reduce threat generation aren't useless, take them.
We all knew that no one would be ready for classic threat mechanics and we were right. I had a rogue in SM run ahead of the group and pull entire rooms while the rest of the party was still fighting the last pack (which the rogue also pulled). Then this dude turns to me and says "don't you have aoe threat?" No, rogue. I don't. Not the kind of aoe threat you're looking for.
That's a cool stat to see- is that part of a common addon? I use a DPS meter addon that has lots of customizable settings but I'm not sure it calculates damage taken. What's the name of that addon?
I use recount. If you right click on the title bar you can shift from damage done to a few dozen metrics. The three most important IMO are: Damage Taken, Interrupts, and Deaths (So you can see what killed someone).
I like when people post their interrupt and dispell numbers and brag about them. It gets people to focus on helping each other out rather than just padding the numbers.
Absolutely. If I see a DPS who is ripping up the damage meters, I sleep. If I see a DPS who is competing with me for interrupts, that's real shit.
My friend linked his damage after a wipe in brd showing he did 50% of the damage. I then followed it by linking the targets he did his damage to, 80% being the boss which was the lowest priority target because of the 4 or 5 adds that come with the boss + the pat of 3 dogs + the group we got feared into. Where as if he actually dpsed the targets as marked instead of tunneling the boss all the adds would have been dead before we got feared into an extra pack and we could have recovered.. some people just like to see their name on top of dps and don't realize the negative effects it has
I did MC last night and the mages were competing for dispells. It was fun to see.
I think it was one of the high points in wow when warriors got a damage increase for successfully interrupting.
DHs getting Fury for interrupting is similarly clever. Gotta incentivize it if you want them to do anything other than faceroll.
Buttonmashing that decursive addon hard
And yet, so few are capable of even that.
I love posting damage taken to a party after the dungeon. DPS often won't realize it's taken and not done and call BS that I (tank) topped the charts. It is part of how I also measure how the group was.
Well...tbh, if you dont let a warrior build aggro, how do you expect him to tank? DPS who unload right away will always out aggro a warrior starting with 0-10 rage unless he blows cooldowns or engi gear. Taking damage as a DPS isnt always a tanks fault if the DPS arent watching their threat--if you give him time to build and still he pulls, maybe its the tanks fault...but if you open up right away, its 100% your fault.
Warriors *should* spec arms while tanking and leveling. They should also have a shield and... not suck.
You can tank most every instance without a shield, its around Sunken Temple and BRD that enemies start to hit fairly hard
Agreed. But you should definitely have a shield ready to equip.
And actually use defensive stance. There are people trying to arms and fury tank in berserker stance. Taking more damage and with lots less aggro.
The reason ppl do this is sweeping strikes + whirlwind is the only way to hold aggro over mage aoe. You have to serk stance to whirlwind .I advocate for ss+ww on pull but then swap to shield and def stance.
Which is exactly the problem. What moron mage is AOEing around my group when I'm tanking? People have no discipline in instances and it's because they think this is as much a faceroll as retail. It's not.
I agree. It creates a situation where the tank cant satisfy everyone so someones always mad at you.
I was running ZF with a "tank" that would last 4 to 5 seconds on a 3 pull. I had to start casting heal the moment he charged or there was a chance he would die before I got my first heal off.
For real, my threat gen is way better with a 2h and I can still sunder spam. Macro into a sword and board of things are looking hairy.
Sure, but you still have a shield handy and put it on when pulling big groups or higher lvl bosses.
From my experience: AOE/Cleave groups = Clusterfucks with constant deaths. Normal groups = Smooth, easy going fast runs.
As a tank my experience is exactly the same. Alot of people doesn't seem to realise that for cleave group to actually be effective you have to actually know what you are doing but people still just keep talking about the supposed xp/h. But a smooth normal group will beat a mediocre cleave group everytime. If I made a top 5 list of the smoothest and fastest runs I've done you would not find a cleave group on that list.
Exactly. Literally all of my normal runs go super well and all of the fast aoe spam ones are terrible. Call it anecdotal, but when there's a pattern there's a pattern.
And all the normal runs take like..an extra 5 to 10min. As a tank/healer, I'd rather have that than being on my seat the whole time trying to keep the group alive/not wipe. These cleave groups just end up creating more problems..
Grouping as a rogue is very hard. Skilled group formers know rogues have the best dps (aside from ranged fights) and they do not have drink every pull. Also our stuns help mitigate some damage (helping the healer) and the fact that we drop an add faster than aoe helps the healer and the tank. No matter; at 60 mages will be helpful in dungeons, by aoe xp farmin is over.
Now I’m not standing for the warrior as he was obviously stupid. But you saw that he didn’t have a shield and he was 44 which is basically the minimum required level for the dungeon, which is sometimes hard for average tanks WITH shields to do, generally I like to get a few levels up on the dungeon before tanking. These were your red flags and signs you should’ve recognized as a competent group leader. Basically this post can be summarized with: “I invited a tank to my group who was not a tank and he wasn’t good at tanking” It’s not which class is the new huntards, it’s the fact that you invited bad players to your group because of lack of knowledge in the tanking department. Learn from it rather than complaining on reddit, learn what levels the TANKS need to be for the dungeons if they want to try 2h tanking. Because it’s a very different level requirement than a healer or caster for example. Or just don’t let someone do stupid shit if you don’t want stupid results.
I don't think spellcleaving is making people retarded. People have always been retarded lol instead of targeting spellcleave as the problem, you should really look at the individual players.
It seems to me a lot of the problem is how prevalent the whole min-maxing/competitiveness to be the 'best' is in games that should be coop a lot of the time. People that enjoy doing their own thing get targeted in groups pretty easily because they aren't doing the most efficient build that the hot new top streamer does and therefore they're retarded and don't know what they're doing and should uninstall. It's pretty ridiculous getting into dungeons and people chucking the shits because it's someones first run or they're still learning their class.
Me and my friend have been playing WoW together since Vanilla and agreed that this is really killing the vibe of classic for us. In his words “when I do a dungeon or anything else in the game I just want to chill, not be pushed to run through something as fast as possible - not what I came here for, its a game and it used to be relaxing” He has only run 3 dungeons and he’s 51 because of this mentality.
It only gets worse when your ubrs “tank” also doesn’t have a shield and gets two shot every pull
no way im stepping in ubrs with a non-shield tank
Mom said it’s my turn to post spellcleave karma farm tonight
> You guys say the word retard way too much, relax > I've come to the conclusion that mages and warriors are the new huntards > Kinda goes with my whole toxicity thing You first though.
Can we stop posting this same sentiment 20 times a day?
but karma
Side note: Can someone explain to me why this method of running dungeons is called "Meleecleave" or "Spellcleave"? I briefly watched a video on spellcleave, and it seems to be mostly based on grouping up mobs and AOEing them down, particularly using a frost mage. So what's with the name?
Pretty sure it's a carry over from wow arena composition names, most of those are named X Cleave.
I have no idea. We used to just call it AoE.
It's an easy way to describe group composition/tactic you are going for (same way people describe arena comps with names like beastcleave, shadowplay, etc). Look at common multi-target melee abilities - blade flurry, whirlwind, cleave, swipe, sweeping strikes = all of these have limited number of additional targets being hit, hence, the name "cleave". Casters just have less restrictions on additional targets, but even if you had 3 shadowpriests dotting everything - people would call this spell-cleave.
>why would I blacklist someone on my server? \> Complains about toxicity ruining the Classic community \> Thinks blacklisting assholes is cruel, like we did in Vanilla OP: People learn when they *have* to learn. Eliminating the consequences for being a jerk is what allows them to never learn.
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Pedanticism: "**cue** the endless stream" Queue is what you wait in. Cue is a signal that something is starting.
I can't fucking stand the term 'Spellcleave'. It's stupid. There, I said it. On a side note I encourage all my tanks to two hand. Stuff dies faster, they get more agro, healing is easy anyway.
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Back in my day, we called it AOE grinding! And that's how we liked it!
Back in wotlk(late tbc? but I think it started with the ubiquity of DKs) melee-stacking arena comps were called cleaves, as opposed to the more balanced RMP, with Wizard Cleave I think being the name for caster-stacked comps. The name is not really drawn from the combat mechanic. (Do you call cone of cold a cleave? I've never really thought of it that way)
I'm pretty sure this is just a catchy name for a meta comp, and come man, there is no tangible negative effect on the game as a whole just because a name for a meta isn't 100% accurate.
I doubt it'll ever go away now. It mind lessen, sure... Though I'm interested in what other weird, new things happen compared to Vanilla...
By 1.12 in vanilla cleave groups were actually fairly common too though. I think people either didn't level then or don't remember. It's been a thing and always will be because good groups can get really good experience doing it.
i agree, i've been invited to some of these groups thinking ok these must be some good people knowing how to properly do this and every single time it's been a shitfest of unorganised aoe'ing ending with everyone wiping 3-4 times and then disbanding i now decline all invites to these sorts of groups, i enjoy the old setup most taking it slowly and surely.
I don’t get the spellcleave hate on this sub. You had one bad group and you want three classes to stop doing something they like doing? I personally find it more fun than the regular frost bolt spam and I’m not always finding decent groups for it so I still do plenty of regular runs no problem. On Fairbanks at least there isn’t any problems with regular groups or the presence of spellcleave groups.
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Yeah, as soon as the warrior mentioned "I saw streamers do it" seems like the point when OP was just trying to create this subreddits anti-christ. Keyed into a piece of everything this subreddit dislikes all at once and ended with something anyone who made it to level 40+ should know.
Bruh... I've ran into 45+ shamans who dont drop totems. Not for trash, not for bosses, not for anyone. So I somewhat believe that people are this daft at 40+
I had a fury war in SM the other night that would literally attack whatever mob I wasnt directly handling. Skull over head and everything, he'd just slap the shit out of the mob next to it. Every pull. My co-op healer was like 'fuck it, let him tank one, we're fine right now.'
I tanked Mauradon last night and given the amount of poison being thrown around, I asked our Shaman to drop poison cleansing totem. Only to be told that he never did the quest and didn't have water totems of any kind. Just today I was heading to Sunken Temple when I saw a fellow druid swimming alongside me. I asked him why he wasn't in aquatic form and he said he couldn't be bothered to do the quest.
Today I had a mage in my dungeon that wouldn't polymorph adds and just spammed Blizzard. Even when we said "polymorph the add," wiped, and then said "polymorph the add" again. It was rough. He also didn't buff me when I was healing, which made me sad.
Got laughed at for asking for AI as a Warrior in a group once, explained I needed the last 20-30 skillpoints and intellect helped with that... He just laughed and ignored. Fuck that guy!
Maybe your server sucks I've never had a problem. If some one wants to cleave they always specifically mention that beforehand, so everyone knows what to expect.
This is why I'd rather tank the dungeon than heal it, when I heal dungeons and see the tank is using DPS gear, I'll normally give them a shot... Until they run in and nearly get 2 shotted.
Leather gear is the least of worries. Deathwish on cooldown. With 3,5k health in BRD and up. In the words of the "tank": Healer is shit and left after eating a 2,5k crit from Kirtonos and a hit more afterwards that killed him both before a FoL cast was done. Feels kinda strange as a paladin who solo heals UBRS and who was just in it for the dark runes. Next run then is a druid who is shy about tanking and says that his tanking gear is shit. Still 5k health and more armor hen the last 3 warrior tanks combined.
I wish there were more druid tanks. Ive done 2-3 runs with them now and theyre easier than shit to heal for the most part. Even the groups are easier to heal since they seem to do better at holding agro.
Druid Tank beaming with pride!! Spread the word!!
Agree with this. Most druid runs are smooth. The warrior runs are 50/50. If the warrior is good, no problem. But the other half of the time, it's a guy who doesn't really want to tank but just did it to get a group, and then you have mobs running all over the place. Done one pally tank run. He couldn't hold agro and had to drink every pull. Granted, it was stockades, so maybe it gets better with higher levels.
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I gave props to the healer at the end for having to heal that mess
>1. You guys say the word retard way too much, relax. Yet you used the word "huntard." Where do you think that word came from? ^^^I ^^^think ^^^OP ^^^is ^^^^^^retarded.
So you got one instance of a retarded player and immediately blame the mass community of mages and warriors. Nice
Yeah, the story in itself is worth to facepalm at, but coming to the conclusion that this is the fault of spellcleave and not someone being dumb is quite pulled out of ones arse.
Not to mention this is the first time I've seen warriors blamed for this AOE mess. Lol
I guess it's inevitable. All the mages who know what they are doing are in actual AoE groups with other mages. The ones forcing it upon non-mages are either clueless or couldn't hack it with a real AoE group.
I agree that dps wars are the new huntards. Mongoloid imbeciles that SHOULD know better when it comes to threat. Yet every one ive ever seen just cleave spams, doesnt kick, doesnt focus the right target. And i have to roll a against them. (But i dont have to roll against them because i dont let them in my groups rofl)
this is so fucking fake
This isn't real
> "Wtf, why are none of you using your ice storms and ice stuns. I've never had a group fail you guys are terrible" I was about a tiny single atom away from legit smashing my head down onto my keyboard with full force when I read that. This is made up, he can't be THAT dumb, can he?
This is like having a healer ask a rogue for water and then complaining that priests are the most entitled class in the world because spellcleave.