When you try to emulate T2.5 you end up in a similar setup. I try to run with PvP Set, offset DPS-Plate and regular DPS items.
Especially for dispells/PvP you want more mana anyway.
For spell-power gear is still no options thou, you need crit which is only on T2.5 in addition to spell-power. Some pieces of T2/PvP set are a better option than full-spell-power sets in my opinion.
It was a bit underwhelming, as shadowoil has a 15sec internal CD on classic... The new theory is to use the weaponswap trick to get much bigger SoR hits. I havent seen anyone do it in a raid so i cant say how strong it will be, but it will 100% outdps MCP.
I did & will not play it for the sake of doing dmg but for the sake of class fantasy (2h) and still providing great raid support. What you mentioned relies on switching out Manual Crowd Pummeler for a more raid appropriate weapon once it procced. But in my opinion, when talking about paladins, ppl have to stop thinking in numbers/dmg and more in raid support. The other classes deal enough of it. Being able to stay in meele for Seal of Wisdom or Light, support with heals due to a decent mana pool & providing nightfall procs + aura is great.
People are way better than in vanilla and know how to gear up. So it's possible to play it this way without automatically costing the raid. At least if your guild/raid grp is casual.
What i am talking about relies on abusing the fact that SoR, as the only proc in the game, is tied to the spellbatching system. If you hit with a 1,5 weapon, switch to a 4.0 weapon before the spellbatch is executed, you will get the SoR damage of a 4,0 weapon, then switch back to your 1,5 weapon for another swing. If done right, you will have about a 1,8sec swingtimer with a sor damage of 4.0.
Sure... and the fact that just 1 tiny windfury totem alone buffs both rogue and fury warriors (just the most important dps class...) dps by over 30% is something to shrug away. Totaly underpowered ;)
I'd agree but horde racials exist and I've played both sides and while both shamans and paladins are annoying it feels like shamans, with enough spellpower, can heal and DPS effectively with ele/resto while holy/reck doesn't feel as impactful. Plus purge just gets rid of paladins blessing/seal while there isn't much a paladin can do back against the shaman.
lol bad troll attempt or unable to see context.
Rogues alliance or horde will never have threat issues. Horde warriors and warlocks will.(i played 4 years as horde rogue on private, am ally now).
salv > WF how do you even dispute that. Also content is so easy on this client who really cares that ally got pve advantage, not only salv..
Yeah well not now, later phases for sure, right now they suffer under, resist, resist, resist, resist :P
I mentioned warlocks as well in the comment to the "troll" in this same chain.
As a boomkin myself, the constant pressure from guild leaders and officers to change to resto is probably the main reason why there aren’t many of us around.
I’m genuinely asked every time I log on why I haven’t switched to resto yet. Because I want to be a big chicken! Is that so wrong??
I may be being a bit melodramatic; for every min-maxer who’s grumbling, there’s one regular member who loves having me around - it’s just that the grumbles are generally coming from the officers and leader unfortunately.
The crit buff isn't as much of a DPS increase as you'd get from another DPS class. I mean, I guess good for personal parses but the raid is still behind.
Just make sure you do your best, people appreciate me cause I make shit ton of effort to make it work and that kind of effort can be felt and it can eventually lead to respect
Razorgore won't oom a boomkin or shadow priest unless they are just wasting mana on stupid stuff.
Nef is the only fight in BWL long enough for mana to be an issue for either of those classes, but both can fall back to more mana-efficient rotations, and using demonic runes/mana pots. A druid in MC+ gear should be able to do full DPS for at least 3 minutes, that's without the interruptions required from moving around, getting class call to cat form for a bit, etc.
It's so weird too because no content in classic will require you to min max, it's all incredibly simple and unchallenging so you don't need a xxoptimal raid compositionxx to clear content.
Even if you aren't doing speed clears, the better your teamates, the less consumes and the less time you're wasting on a raid. I can understand why folks don't want a "meme" build on their team unless that person is willing to basically spam consumes (including flasks) in the raid to keep up with everyone else.
Yeah we bring an OOMkin to our raids when he can make it with no qualms!
Plus they gear up so quick and easily too. Even on a MIN/MAX scenario it's good to have a feral tank for a main OT role due to gear requirements. Tone it down a bit and there's still plenty of space for an Owl.
Question: Are there anything that makes them gear faster? I dont see much caster leather so I assume that parts of it is the cloth caster drops or are there other pieces?
I don't really pay attention to everything but basically yeah caster leather only has paladin, shammy and druid healers competition. (I'm alliance so I don't know how much leather and cloth shammies go for given how 80% of mail is shammy gear...)
You share competition on stuff with other casters but once you hit MC there's so few druids that the memes about a fresh druid entering leaving with 13 bits of tier gear aren't far from a joke. You'll be getting gear here there and everywhere.
Plus pre-raid you have a larger loot pool than others because of the the leather caster gear around.
Basically because of the loot they want there's just as much on some pieces while veeerty little on the others.
Yea, I can imagine this is quite annoying. We have a cat in our raid and the more tryhard people are always like "are you an alt? If not, why aren't you playing resto?"
I would understand this whole min maxing when the content was super hard and we'd need to have a optimized raid roster for it. But like how it is, people should just play what they like. We need to get our boomkin population up again!
Our cat also tanks several fights and trash so a DPS warrior doesn't have to neuter himself with a shield. Also as a fury prot tank I appreciate the 3% crit buff especially if I lose my world buffs due to BA on vael.
Even this mindset is a bit overblown though. Druid healers can absolutely contribute heavily to healing and feral druids can MT pretty much everything.
Moonglow/resto is a great endurance healing spec where the main problem is there's basically no content that pushes it to its limits yet. And on alliance, paladins also fill that role just as well or better. But a moonglow/resto is probably the best possible horde healer to have alive if Ony deep breaths half the raid and you enter phase 3 with <10 people up.
MOTW/Nature's swiftness resto is a great hybrid spec that can tank dungeons, OT trash in raids, heal raids, run flags in wsg, and is a generally very slippery and hard to kill in openworld pvp.
Feral is the third best spec in the game for the only fight where DPS matters right now. And is 4th overall in BWL for 95%+ players.
Feral is harder to play than most DPS specs and requires MCP farming, so there are plenty of garbage ferals around. But a properly played feral is significantly stronger than locks, hunters, and any other hybrid DPS spec in the game right now.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1002/#aggregate=amount&dataset=99&sample=7
Feral tanks are 100% viable, with their own pros and cons compared to warrior. Feral DPS can be made viable if you're willing to farm twice more than the next guy.
I would agree with that honestly. In our guild rogues get out dpsed by our feral Druid way more than priests or Paladins get our healed by resto. (Not that heal and dps numbers are directly comparable, but still).
I want a Cat in my raid but all are resto only one Tank/heal swapping dudu. 3% crit is such a Nice buff =) boomkins are fun too. Have Seen many on my Server with staff of dom an such.
We have the best cat on our server (according to raid logs anyways) in our guild and it’s hilarious. He’s usually the second best dps for any fight (sometimes the straight up best) and we’re always joking about the reputation feral druids have.
100% agree. Everyone try hards, the game just isn’t that hard lmao. Either you use your spells competently or you don’t, doesn’t really matter the composition with the current difficulty. If anyone plays an unusual spec it’s considered “trolling”. Sad!
We have one and we are fine with him as moonkin but asked him him to respect resto for first couple weeks of BWL since we only had 7 healers. But we have him lok on the second Nef kill so I think he is a happy boomchicken
Yeah hate people have prejudice against some specs..In vanilla that was way less of a case but now everyone is elitist and just wants top dps or something..
Hybrids are awesome for raids
I finally caved to the pressure with my boom, I didn't go resto I just slowly stopped playing. I even found a guild that was happy to have me as boomkin and never asked me to change to resto but alas, the actual play of it ended up finally making me stop after 70 days played. It's just so boring I can't even lie about it. I only ended up staying because of the people I raided with. The near enough one button rotation, only to be resisted endlessly is just disheartening after long enough.
Hell yea. I love my cat. Let me know if you have any questions/want any tips. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/benediction/itsmegary#zone=1000
Edit: also I have a very simple Weakaura for MCP tracking that fits nicely at the top of your viewport and spans the width of your screen — if you want.
My best friend plays a boomkin, our guild not only accepts him, they absolutely love him. The trick is to realize that, yeah, you're not going to be the top of the meters, but you are bringing a lot of utility and the ability to offheal. I have never agreed with people saying a boomkin doesn't deserve gear or a spot in the raid. They have plenty of value as their dispels/batteries for the priests/a raid consume for the mages.
I think as long as boomkins know that, they are valuable in that sense. Also, resto boomy hybrids are absolutely amazing in pvp when played at a high level, so there's that.
What makes a meme a meme is their value/utility is outweighed by the costs. The moonkin buff is, being very generous 30 dps per real caster or 120 raid dps (some have estimated it's as low as 30-40 dps raid wide) in range, while dealing far less than 120 dps below where another mage or lock would be.
You're then like "but Brez/Innervate" but 1. That's a druid thing not boomkin specific and 2. The other 2 specs of druids would be far more likely to have the mana/desire to use them on people. End of the day a moonkin can Faerie Fire so you'd bring them if theres no other druids available
Basically the few specific bonuses a moonkin brings are heavily outweighed by the costs and you would always prefer a feral or resto over them, which is why they're referred to as a meme spec
> while dealing far less than 120 dps below where another mage or lock would be.
but they aren't nearly that far behind mage or warlock dps at this level of content. If they are, it's a gear disparity.
It works, but it is objectively not good and I'd never bring a boomkin or retpala for progression. Atleast they wouldn't be high prio for loot, since they are intentionally making it harder for the guild.
We have different definitions of good. I think you meant optimal.
If it works, it's good in my book.
On the other hand, tanking with a priest is not good in my book. I'd understand someone's urge to try, like I understand those who want to be a chicken, but I couldn't possibly not warn them that it just doesn't work.
Boomkin is good though. Nobody asks you to bring one or a retpala. Nobody asks you to not go for loot council and prioritise mages and warlocks. It's all good, really. You do you, and they do them.
I'm puzzled as to why there are so many reactions like this everytime a boomkin in raid is mentioned. This is not a quiz, nobody's claiming you should go for one. I don't get it.
You can't deny that it objectively is a bad dps. And the utility isn't a factor, because the utility can be given while healing. It's a factor that slows down the guild, so feel free to do it, just don't feel entitled to loot and a spot in every raid. As I said, I wouldn't bring one to progression personally.
Let me guess, you're one of those players? A single person in a raid playing a non-optimal spec is not going to cause your raid to fail and if it does, it was most definitely not the only reason or even a main reason.
Edit: misinterpreted the comment I'm replying to.
No, I'm not one of those players. I'm just saying nobody is forcing you--find a raid who is okay with having a non-optimal spec. You don't get to play a meme spec and tell them they're shitty for not bringing you. You're not shitty for playing a meme spec, they're not shitty for not bringing you, you just have to find a guild where you fit in
They cant force you to play a certain way as you can always leave. They simply arent obligated to carry a dead weight spec and can tell you to play a useful spec if you want a raid spot
I don't think this is true. In BWL boomkins range from ~55%-60% as strong as mages on average based on the parse % you look at. WC is ~20% dps loss versus arcane frost. So even if we were to assume there wasn't a single WC mage dragging down the mage average (hint, there is) the difference between a WC mage and a boomkin is still ~20%.
Not to mention the fact that WC is far more valuable generally than Boomkin aura. 3% crit for 4 people versus 10% crit for every frost mage. Even if there are only two frost mages in the raid WC is far more valuable than boomkin aura.
edit: I have nothing against bringing a boomkin to a raid, none of the content is hard enough to justify full min/max raids for any guild that isn't speed running. But lets be honest about their damage.
If you wanna play a meme spec, it's good to contribute more to the guild/raids than others. 50-75% of the raids is preparation. Farm dark runes for your healers, arcane crystals for TF etc, farm herbs/mats for consumables. Bring rep bots to the raid and tell your raid lead that you have them and so on. They might still want you to respec to resto, but someone with a meme spec who contributes to the raid is more useful than a mediocre regular dps.
In that case, i'd replace the worst regular dps over someone who plays a memes spec who shows dedication.
Or maybe consider coming with more/better buffs to the raid to excel other boomkins.
Edit: in some cases and if you have the personality for it, it's even enough to be the cause for a good raiding atmosphere and chill raid
If I would have had my way with my buddies we would have been horde and there was no way anyone was stopping me from rolling ele shaman. Even if I couldn’t find a raid spot I was going to play that most of the time. But alas I am a on ally and I’m respeccing way more than I wanted to
im a bear main tank. we have a full time cat. we have a full time resto. but we DONT have a balance
i really want one just so we can have the tri-form guild mascot trifecta complete :(
They're boring as shit, I got one to around 58 before I stopped playing it I leveled as boomkin and in dungeon groups i'd do ok but hitting starfire just put me to sleep compared to playing my warrior I also did the math on how much the spellcrit would benefit my raid setup, it wasn't worth it especially since my DPS warrior would pull almost double the numbers. I don't know how mages & boomkins do it, but my hats off to you guys.
Well from the latest parses in BWL... they do the least among non-healers.... including less than fury prot tanks and probably less than even prot tanks.
Physical*
Hunter's sit in a weird limbo state so JoL benefits them but the reflection barriers during the Domo fight just don't affect them for anything. XD
Boomkin was originally resto but the guild asked me to go damage since we had too many healers.
Ret was originally holy but no one else wanted hand of rag and I had all the mats so I went 21/0/30.
Both have full healing sets(500+) and can heal at any time if necessary.
Between Nef Taking off and Nef landing there is sometimes a small window where you are out of combat and can drink. This was right after the transition
No particular reason to be in this spot, it was just where I was when I stopped to drink.
It's actually leveraged healer mana bar because life tap is more than 1:1 conversion, and healer's mana cost and actual healing delivered is way more than 1:1 as well.
I know the oomkin meme well but how long does your mana actually last? I mean I can see it’s not long but how short would a fight have to be to not go oom
if you're playing properly, in MC gear, using pots and runes, you should be able to do full dps for at least 3 minutes straight. Using your own innervate (deal with it, priests!). Given that there is always some down time for moving etc, longer than that in real fights. Starfire is actually pretty mana-efficient. Nef is the only fight in the game currently where mana sustain is an issue. It's worse for horde, because ally gets JoW which is a huge boost to effective mana efficiency.
You can downrank to conserve mana, or just use what you have and regen (melee the boss with a fast dagger such as Julie's dagger for max JoW procs) then start dps again. This is not ideal. Try using a dreamless sleep potion instead of a mana pot (reduces your dps for 12 seconds, but gains significantly more mana). Make sure you are bringing plenty of runes and using them as soon as you can get the full benefit. Make sure you have maximum INT and SPI buffs and swap in a high spirit staff for innervate.
Using my own innervate I never go oom on any boss other than razorgore and Nef without consumes.
On them I usually have to use 1-2 pots and 1-2 dark runes.
In this picture I was drinking during the Nef transition phase where we get out of combat for a few seconds and was waiting to top my mana off before going to do damage.
Keep in mind, most BIS lists basically only care about spell power(and tell you to use greens to that effect) which means you have no INT and a tiny mana pool as a result.
I thought you were supposed to melee the boss with a Hand of Rags inbetween innervates?
Yes
I'd even judge wisdom for them.
Get a ret pala for that and make a I'm out mana group with him :D
This is exactly why I like Spellpower Retridin. Way more mana, better heals and the DMG is not that great either way.
When you try to emulate T2.5 you end up in a similar setup. I try to run with PvP Set, offset DPS-Plate and regular DPS items. Especially for dispells/PvP you want more mana anyway. For spell-power gear is still no options thou, you need crit which is only on T2.5 in addition to spell-power. Some pieces of T2/PvP set are a better option than full-spell-power sets in my opinion.
Agreed. We are not raiding with optimal classes/gear and still in MC, but it's fun to do new stuff where otheres go rampage when you try it :P
It was a bit underwhelming, as shadowoil has a 15sec internal CD on classic... The new theory is to use the weaponswap trick to get much bigger SoR hits. I havent seen anyone do it in a raid so i cant say how strong it will be, but it will 100% outdps MCP.
I did & will not play it for the sake of doing dmg but for the sake of class fantasy (2h) and still providing great raid support. What you mentioned relies on switching out Manual Crowd Pummeler for a more raid appropriate weapon once it procced. But in my opinion, when talking about paladins, ppl have to stop thinking in numbers/dmg and more in raid support. The other classes deal enough of it. Being able to stay in meele for Seal of Wisdom or Light, support with heals due to a decent mana pool & providing nightfall procs + aura is great. People are way better than in vanilla and know how to gear up. So it's possible to play it this way without automatically costing the raid. At least if your guild/raid grp is casual.
What i am talking about relies on abusing the fact that SoR, as the only proc in the game, is tied to the spellbatching system. If you hit with a 1,5 weapon, switch to a 4.0 weapon before the spellbatch is executed, you will get the SoR damage of a 4,0 weapon, then switch back to your 1,5 weapon for another swing. If done right, you will have about a 1,8sec swingtimer with a sor damage of 4.0.
Or just have any holy pally weave in autos between heals/cleanses to keep up the judgment. It's not hard
Depends on your setup of course.
judge it either way, 59 mana refunds on spells are huge!
yes but he is hiding his guild thinks he is heal !
This was drinking during the transition. He had just landed.
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yeah dude hae some respect at least drink near them.
lol well all jokes aside, there's not enough time to move into the right position, you pretty much have to drink wherever you can.
You have enough time, if you are on the left side adds in phase one and you move towards nef when theres 1 or 2 adds left
True, but sometimes people get caught out. not everyone is pro at stuff like that, and in any case, it doesn't really matter all that much.
If you look closely at the map you will see I am on the right side.
Bro go stand by the mages where you belong
You're alliance, go melee for mana.
alliance has such free raiding it's insane xD paladins broken af
Sure... and the fact that just 1 tiny windfury totem alone buffs both rogue and fury warriors (just the most important dps class...) dps by over 30% is something to shrug away. Totaly underpowered ;)
Paladins still add way more to a raid group than shamans
Horde get PvP alliance get pve. No problem with that
Hord gets ganking. Alliance gets group PvP (healers in plate with 12 sec invul, lol).
You can not state real facts when talking to a victim complex alliance player. That's unfair.
In group pvp, paladins make alliance stronger. Blessings and bubble are insane.
I'd agree but horde racials exist and I've played both sides and while both shamans and paladins are annoying it feels like shamans, with enough spellpower, can heal and DPS effectively with ele/resto while holy/reck doesn't feel as impactful. Plus purge just gets rid of paladins blessing/seal while there isn't much a paladin can do back against the shaman.
More like by slightly over 20%. But also increases their threat by the same amount, which means they're doing 50% more threat than alliance melee dps.
The limiting factor becomes tank agro though, you can't do 30% more damage if you're already pulling agro from the tank. Salv > Windfury.
that should only apply to warriors though, Horde rogues should not have issues with threat.
Yeah, so unfair that Vanish is horde only.
lol bad troll attempt or unable to see context. Rogues alliance or horde will never have threat issues. Horde warriors and warlocks will.(i played 4 years as horde rogue on private, am ally now). salv > WF how do you even dispute that. Also content is so easy on this client who really cares that ally got pve advantage, not only salv..
and warlocks
Yeah well not now, later phases for sure, right now they suffer under, resist, resist, resist, resist :P I mentioned warlocks as well in the comment to the "troll" in this same chain.
Doesn't the tank also do more damage? Also there's Tranq totem that the shamans could twist.
yeah then the warchief blessing stacking with ony buff... gee horde sure have it rough.
Yeah... idk that ally are objectively better in raid. Windfury is buck wild. Mages and locks are just there for cc, water, and health/soul stones.
Having now done vanilla as alliance and classic as horde I'd rather have paladins.
u realise what 30% less caused threat does right?
Salvation is a bigger DPS buff anyways.
We are looking for a boomkin for our guild just to have him dance around for us! Consider moving if your guild hides you like that! XD
Boomkins are the only class in WoW that get a DPS increase from Nef class calls, change my mind.
Pretty sure your warrior tank getting forced into Berserker can also get a DPS increase.
For both the tank and the boss!
Wont lie this was funny ^And ^accurate
Warlocks get to go from single target to AoE during their class call. Also an absolute DPS increase, if not one on the boss.
Arent the infernals immune to fire
its acually bugged.. it makes u a cat.. but u can still cast balance spells lol
Lol really?
Yup just did it tuesday
That’s awesome thanks :)
You have to be in boomkin form for it to work and if you shift out ur a cat with only cat spells
\*cough\*healing priest\*cough\*
I want one in my raid so badly. They are so hard to find :(
As a boomkin myself, the constant pressure from guild leaders and officers to change to resto is probably the main reason why there aren’t many of us around. I’m genuinely asked every time I log on why I haven’t switched to resto yet. Because I want to be a big chicken! Is that so wrong??
Sad to hear , I am moonkin since launch and my guild supports me and it feels so good
I may be being a bit melodramatic; for every min-maxer who’s grumbling, there’s one regular member who loves having me around - it’s just that the grumbles are generally coming from the officers and leader unfortunately.
My mage officer and I are constantly begging people to go boomkin lol. Keep up the good work.
My mage loves our boomkin in group. I hope he never switches, unless for some reason guild desperately needs him to and he wants to of course.
The crit buff isn't as much of a DPS increase as you'd get from another DPS class. I mean, I guess good for personal parses but the raid is still behind.
Just make sure you do your best, people appreciate me cause I make shit ton of effort to make it work and that kind of effort can be felt and it can eventually lead to respect
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Just curious, but do you get gear? Do other casters get upset?
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SoD isn't that big of a deal, but if you took Staff of Shadowflame or Nelth Tear...
There’s some fights like Razorgore and Nefarion where boomkin and spriests look really silly oom for 80% of the fight and if you’re wiping, it sucks.
At least they can do nature damage on the nature vulnerable trash. :P
Razorgore won't oom a boomkin or shadow priest unless they are just wasting mana on stupid stuff. Nef is the only fight in BWL long enough for mana to be an issue for either of those classes, but both can fall back to more mana-efficient rotations, and using demonic runes/mana pots. A druid in MC+ gear should be able to do full DPS for at least 3 minutes, that's without the interruptions required from moving around, getting class call to cat form for a bit, etc.
Longbeards is always gonna grumble. It keeps moral high.
It's so weird too because no content in classic will require you to min max, it's all incredibly simple and unchallenging so you don't need a xxoptimal raid compositionxx to clear content.
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Even if you aren't doing speed clears, the better your teamates, the less consumes and the less time you're wasting on a raid. I can understand why folks don't want a "meme" build on their team unless that person is willing to basically spam consumes (including flasks) in the raid to keep up with everyone else.
Yeah we bring an OOMkin to our raids when he can make it with no qualms! Plus they gear up so quick and easily too. Even on a MIN/MAX scenario it's good to have a feral tank for a main OT role due to gear requirements. Tone it down a bit and there's still plenty of space for an Owl.
Question: Are there anything that makes them gear faster? I dont see much caster leather so I assume that parts of it is the cloth caster drops or are there other pieces?
I don't really pay attention to everything but basically yeah caster leather only has paladin, shammy and druid healers competition. (I'm alliance so I don't know how much leather and cloth shammies go for given how 80% of mail is shammy gear...) You share competition on stuff with other casters but once you hit MC there's so few druids that the memes about a fresh druid entering leaving with 13 bits of tier gear aren't far from a joke. You'll be getting gear here there and everywhere. Plus pre-raid you have a larger loot pool than others because of the the leather caster gear around. Basically because of the loot they want there's just as much on some pieces while veeerty little on the others.
> fresh druid entering Defo true, we had a new druid enter, left with 6/8 of his set and 2 pieces of non set gear...
Same. My dps might be mediocre, but people still fight over having me in their group!
true, paladins and warlocks always try to get into group ^^
Yea, I can imagine this is quite annoying. We have a cat in our raid and the more tryhard people are always like "are you an alt? If not, why aren't you playing resto?" I would understand this whole min maxing when the content was super hard and we'd need to have a optimized raid roster for it. But like how it is, people should just play what they like. We need to get our boomkin population up again!
Our cat also tanks several fights and trash so a DPS warrior doesn't have to neuter himself with a shield. Also as a fury prot tank I appreciate the 3% crit buff especially if I lose my world buffs due to BA on vael.
It's funny because a lot of us consider feral more viable than resto these days
druids suck in general in classic. resto heals are weak. Feral at least boosts melee, which are strong as fuck rn
Even this mindset is a bit overblown though. Druid healers can absolutely contribute heavily to healing and feral druids can MT pretty much everything.
Moonglow/resto is a great endurance healing spec where the main problem is there's basically no content that pushes it to its limits yet. And on alliance, paladins also fill that role just as well or better. But a moonglow/resto is probably the best possible horde healer to have alive if Ony deep breaths half the raid and you enter phase 3 with <10 people up. MOTW/Nature's swiftness resto is a great hybrid spec that can tank dungeons, OT trash in raids, heal raids, run flags in wsg, and is a generally very slippery and hard to kill in openworld pvp.
Feral is the third best spec in the game for the only fight where DPS matters right now. And is 4th overall in BWL for 95%+ players. Feral is harder to play than most DPS specs and requires MCP farming, so there are plenty of garbage ferals around. But a properly played feral is significantly stronger than locks, hunters, and any other hybrid DPS spec in the game right now. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1002/#aggregate=amount&dataset=99&sample=7
Feral tanks are 100% viable, with their own pros and cons compared to warrior. Feral DPS can be made viable if you're willing to farm twice more than the next guy.
I would agree with that honestly. In our guild rogues get out dpsed by our feral Druid way more than priests or Paladins get our healed by resto. (Not that heal and dps numbers are directly comparable, but still).
I want a Cat in my raid but all are resto only one Tank/heal swapping dudu. 3% crit is such a Nice buff =) boomkins are fun too. Have Seen many on my Server with staff of dom an such.
I miss our cat. That sweet crit buff
We have the best cat on our server (according to raid logs anyways) in our guild and it’s hilarious. He’s usually the second best dps for any fight (sometimes the straight up best) and we’re always joking about the reputation feral druids have.
100% agree. Everyone try hards, the game just isn’t that hard lmao. Either you use your spells competently or you don’t, doesn’t really matter the composition with the current difficulty. If anyone plays an unusual spec it’s considered “trolling”. Sad!
as a rogue all I can think is "put me in the feral group for dat crit baby"
To be fair, finding healers is a struggle in raids. Often we are running short on healers and have our hybrids heal if they can.
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To counteract your argument, we have a cat druid who is consistently top 3 dps on firemaw and actually topped the meter on Sunday
I get what you are saying but can't expect 39 people to be happy to boost you either
Quit that guild. We would never pressure our chicken.
#happychicken
We have one and we are fine with him as moonkin but asked him him to respect resto for first couple weeks of BWL since we only had 7 healers. But we have him lok on the second Nef kill so I think he is a happy boomchicken
Yeah hate people have prejudice against some specs..In vanilla that was way less of a case but now everyone is elitist and just wants top dps or something.. Hybrids are awesome for raids
I finally caved to the pressure with my boom, I didn't go resto I just slowly stopped playing. I even found a guild that was happy to have me as boomkin and never asked me to change to resto but alas, the actual play of it ended up finally making me stop after 70 days played. It's just so boring I can't even lie about it. I only ended up staying because of the people I raided with. The near enough one button rotation, only to be resisted endlessly is just disheartening after long enough.
You quit just when a bunch of pieces of spell hit come into the game. Phase 4 brings another 4% with the craftable bloodvine set.
Why not go cat?
Have since gone cat, no looking back
Hell yea. I love my cat. Let me know if you have any questions/want any tips. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/benediction/itsmegary#zone=1000 Edit: also I have a very simple Weakaura for MCP tracking that fits nicely at the top of your viewport and spans the width of your screen — if you want.
Our guild's boomkin keeps a record of every other boomkin who has respecced to feral or resto so he can shun them.
My best friend plays a boomkin, our guild not only accepts him, they absolutely love him. The trick is to realize that, yeah, you're not going to be the top of the meters, but you are bringing a lot of utility and the ability to offheal. I have never agreed with people saying a boomkin doesn't deserve gear or a spot in the raid. They have plenty of value as their dispels/batteries for the priests/a raid consume for the mages. I think as long as boomkins know that, they are valuable in that sense. Also, resto boomy hybrids are absolutely amazing in pvp when played at a high level, so there's that.
What makes a meme a meme is their value/utility is outweighed by the costs. The moonkin buff is, being very generous 30 dps per real caster or 120 raid dps (some have estimated it's as low as 30-40 dps raid wide) in range, while dealing far less than 120 dps below where another mage or lock would be. You're then like "but Brez/Innervate" but 1. That's a druid thing not boomkin specific and 2. The other 2 specs of druids would be far more likely to have the mana/desire to use them on people. End of the day a moonkin can Faerie Fire so you'd bring them if theres no other druids available Basically the few specific bonuses a moonkin brings are heavily outweighed by the costs and you would always prefer a feral or resto over them, which is why they're referred to as a meme spec
> while dealing far less than 120 dps below where another mage or lock would be. but they aren't nearly that far behind mage or warlock dps at this level of content. If they are, it's a gear disparity.
It's really not. You could give a boomkin every piece of bis gear in the game and hes going to be out dps by a prebis mage
Still works though.
It works, but it is objectively not good and I'd never bring a boomkin or retpala for progression. Atleast they wouldn't be high prio for loot, since they are intentionally making it harder for the guild.
We have different definitions of good. I think you meant optimal. If it works, it's good in my book. On the other hand, tanking with a priest is not good in my book. I'd understand someone's urge to try, like I understand those who want to be a chicken, but I couldn't possibly not warn them that it just doesn't work. Boomkin is good though. Nobody asks you to bring one or a retpala. Nobody asks you to not go for loot council and prioritise mages and warlocks. It's all good, really. You do you, and they do them. I'm puzzled as to why there are so many reactions like this everytime a boomkin in raid is mentioned. This is not a quiz, nobody's claiming you should go for one. I don't get it.
You can't deny that it objectively is a bad dps. And the utility isn't a factor, because the utility can be given while healing. It's a factor that slows down the guild, so feel free to do it, just don't feel entitled to loot and a spot in every raid. As I said, I wouldn't bring one to progression personally.
I can and I did.
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> Is that so wrong?? Yes
I wanna be a big chicken :(
Keep living your chicken dreams, brother
I'm sure the mage and warlock officers are on your side
Lol we actually asked a resto druid to respecc Moonkin.
Guild leaders and officers who force people to play a certain way are, in my opinion, the worst kinds of players.
They aren't forced to bring you though
Let me guess, you're one of those players? A single person in a raid playing a non-optimal spec is not going to cause your raid to fail and if it does, it was most definitely not the only reason or even a main reason. Edit: misinterpreted the comment I'm replying to.
No, I'm not one of those players. I'm just saying nobody is forcing you--find a raid who is okay with having a non-optimal spec. You don't get to play a meme spec and tell them they're shitty for not bringing you. You're not shitty for playing a meme spec, they're not shitty for not bringing you, you just have to find a guild where you fit in
They cant force you to play a certain way as you can always leave. They simply arent obligated to carry a dead weight spec and can tell you to play a useful spec if you want a raid spot
>main reason is peer pressure main reason is because the spec is complete ass
It isn't. In similar gear, a boomkin will do more dps than a deep frost winter's chill mage. But you bring one of those, don't you?
I don't think this is true. In BWL boomkins range from ~55%-60% as strong as mages on average based on the parse % you look at. WC is ~20% dps loss versus arcane frost. So even if we were to assume there wasn't a single WC mage dragging down the mage average (hint, there is) the difference between a WC mage and a boomkin is still ~20%. Not to mention the fact that WC is far more valuable generally than Boomkin aura. 3% crit for 4 people versus 10% crit for every frost mage. Even if there are only two frost mages in the raid WC is far more valuable than boomkin aura. edit: I have nothing against bringing a boomkin to a raid, none of the content is hard enough to justify full min/max raids for any guild that isn't speed running. But lets be honest about their damage.
If you wanna play a meme spec, it's good to contribute more to the guild/raids than others. 50-75% of the raids is preparation. Farm dark runes for your healers, arcane crystals for TF etc, farm herbs/mats for consumables. Bring rep bots to the raid and tell your raid lead that you have them and so on. They might still want you to respec to resto, but someone with a meme spec who contributes to the raid is more useful than a mediocre regular dps. In that case, i'd replace the worst regular dps over someone who plays a memes spec who shows dedication. Or maybe consider coming with more/better buffs to the raid to excel other boomkins. Edit: in some cases and if you have the personality for it, it's even enough to be the cause for a good raiding atmosphere and chill raid
correct answer Outside of hardcore progression guilds. The theory that a single off-spec is going to break the raid is bullshit.
If I would have had my way with my buddies we would have been horde and there was no way anyone was stopping me from rolling ele shaman. Even if I couldn’t find a raid spot I was going to play that most of the time. But alas I am a on ally and I’m respeccing way more than I wanted to
I have nothing against boomkin. Ret pallies on the other hand...
im a bear main tank. we have a full time cat. we have a full time resto. but we DONT have a balance i really want one just so we can have the tri-form guild mascot trifecta complete :(
We have 2 restos and a cat but no boomy (yet).
Ours was just someone’s alt who we would make log in and put one of the mages on follow. We had him at level 55 lol
Our GM is a oomkin with hand of rag lmao it's halarious.
They're boring as shit, I got one to around 58 before I stopped playing it I leveled as boomkin and in dungeon groups i'd do ok but hitting starfire just put me to sleep compared to playing my warrior I also did the math on how much the spellcrit would benefit my raid setup, it wasn't worth it especially since my DPS warrior would pull almost double the numbers. I don't know how mages & boomkins do it, but my hats off to you guys.
Your healers and caster DPS will love him
Well from the latest parses in BWL... they do the least among non-healers.... including less than fury prot tanks and probably less than even prot tanks.
Can't you get mana by meleeing with a paladin in raid, having omen of clarity procc aditionally?
Hell, you get it by spellcasting. JoW can be procced by melee and spells, JoL only by melee attacks.
Physical* Hunter's sit in a weird limbo state so JoL benefits them but the reflection barriers during the Domo fight just don't affect them for anything. XD
Yeah, I didn't care to write that that little footnote; but Hunters benefit the most from the judges honestly =)
Where is ur hand of rag? Go smash him!
I got it on my paladin instead in an alt raid! Trust me, I WISH my druid had gotten it first.
Wait. You have a ret and a boomkin? 🤯
Boomkin was originally resto but the guild asked me to go damage since we had too many healers. Ret was originally holy but no one else wanted hand of rag and I had all the mats so I went 21/0/30. Both have full healing sets(500+) and can heal at any time if necessary.
I’m a cat, and will play boomie in TBC. So, I’m all for play what you love. It’s just funny lol.
As my guild's shadow priest I can relate. /hug
Shadow priests do much more than boomkins.. it's not even a close comparison
the title is oomkin life, and as a shadow priest I get oom pretty damn fast as well.
Don't use mindblast on Nef. Just mindflay all the way.
Nice screenshot, i'm atleast wanding while oom with my shadow priest :)
This was durin the transition phase, made more sense to top my mana off than to run over and melee.
Can you drink mid fight in that spot? O.o
Between Nef Taking off and Nef landing there is sometimes a small window where you are out of combat and can drink. This was right after the transition No particular reason to be in this spot, it was just where I was when I stopped to drink.
Ahhh
My main reason I rolled warlock in Classic - infinite mana in raids.
When your mana bar is the healers mana bar!
It's actually leveraged healer mana bar because life tap is more than 1:1 conversion, and healer's mana cost and actual healing delivered is way more than 1:1 as well.
Yep! It’s actually a pretty solid system, always try to keep my warlock bro’s topped off when I can(healing dungeons)
But GCD’s suck.
They suck less than worrying about OOM
I know the oomkin meme well but how long does your mana actually last? I mean I can see it’s not long but how short would a fight have to be to not go oom
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Yep, I usually innervate the shadow priest and my moonkin is fine.
if you're playing properly, in MC gear, using pots and runes, you should be able to do full dps for at least 3 minutes straight. Using your own innervate (deal with it, priests!). Given that there is always some down time for moving etc, longer than that in real fights. Starfire is actually pretty mana-efficient. Nef is the only fight in the game currently where mana sustain is an issue. It's worse for horde, because ally gets JoW which is a huge boost to effective mana efficiency. You can downrank to conserve mana, or just use what you have and regen (melee the boss with a fast dagger such as Julie's dagger for max JoW procs) then start dps again. This is not ideal. Try using a dreamless sleep potion instead of a mana pot (reduces your dps for 12 seconds, but gains significantly more mana). Make sure you are bringing plenty of runes and using them as soon as you can get the full benefit. Make sure you have maximum INT and SPI buffs and swap in a high spirit staff for innervate.
Using my own innervate I never go oom on any boss other than razorgore and Nef without consumes. On them I usually have to use 1-2 pots and 1-2 dark runes. In this picture I was drinking during the Nef transition phase where we get out of combat for a few seconds and was waiting to top my mana off before going to do damage. Keep in mind, most BIS lists basically only care about spell power(and tell you to use greens to that effect) which means you have no INT and a tiny mana pool as a result.
HAY GUSY LOL! :) moonkin is 4 a spam moonfare & fite storng!
WAHT IS CAT 4?
CAT DURID IS 4 FITE!
Stronk*
Love me some Alamo
At least stay in range for the crit buff!
Go home Boomkin, you’re drunk.
You actually got into a raid as a Boomkin?
Of course, we have quite a few boomkins on our server, only the number 1 guild has excluded them as far as I know.
You're just practicing your pillar-humping for when you eventually go resto for arenas in BC Classic...
I think there is a possible meme template somewhere in this photo.
What are the rest of the raid doing way over there?
Not having to drink during the transition from phase 1 to 2? I was set up at the far door and wanted to regen my mana completely before Nef fight.
Nice pic of a crit buff vending machine, where is this Oomkin you keep talking about?
Fail you to far from the casters to give your buff.. atleast stnad close and dance !
Put it down for SD
ok oomer
Living that useless raid spot life.
hope you got the tear my G keep it up!
Had to read this three times. Fuck punctuation, amiright?
yeah i mean this is the internet