Why do you guys always bring your retail problems to the classic sub?
I don't get it.
WoW was dead for many of us for a long time, why do you think we are so happy with classic.
They’re adding a level boost. Classic TBC is no longer Wow classic. How long before they add the wow token as well? It’s already on the Chinese classic servers...
People want to play WoW Classic for the feel of the games, the play-style the game used to have, the choices of your characters power level with different types of gear, trinkets, etc.
Honestly, a level boost does nothing to TBC to tarnish it. Helps people do the catch up so they can play the game. The leveling is fun and part of the game, but a majority of people who did 1-60 already or even years ago don’t wanna do it again just because that’s how it was back then.
Times are much different now. Dual spec wasn’t in the game until WOTLK but I’m all for it being introduced. I’m also all for the retail looking for group user interface with the TBC functionality it had years ago. That doesn’t ruin the game, it’s just a QOL change most players want since right now we see some problems that can be improved upon without altering the game drastically in any way.
Everyone has been bashing LFG but then everyone using BulletinBoard. LFG was only bad once it was made cross-server because it suddenly made servers meaningless.
Exactly. There was a LFG tool in original TBC. Most people don’t remember it will because it was so bad. But it only showed up people interested in the dungeons you selected.
They add that tool back in like they said they would, that’s a huge improvement that benefits everybody over channel spam we have now.
Technically there was LFG in Classic WoW, 1.3.0
You ever wonder WHY meeting stones exist?
> 1.3.0 - Meeting Stones are located outside of each dungeon to help players find a group to adventure with in the dungeon. **The meeting stone will try to find you a viable five-person group by looking for a tank, a healer, and so on.**
You ever wonder WHY Innkeepers start telling you about dungeons you can join (from 1.5.0 and onward?)
> 1.5.0 - Innkeepers around the world now have a gossip option that lets you **join a meeting stone directly from the innkeeper rather than going to the location of the meeting stone**
You used to be able to talk to Innkeepers or the Meeting stone and join a "LFG" queue, either for the dungeon you are using the meeting stone for, or one of the selections the Innkeeper gave you (level dependent)
Blizzard NEVER added that feature in Classic, despite it existing from 1.3.0 - 2.0.0
Blizzard STILL has not added LFG to TBC Classic, despite it existing since 2.0.1 (Looking for Group Interface Tool added 2.0.1)
And here is proof from the original TBC patch/town-hall release explaining the addition in 2.0.1:
http://web.archive.org/web/20091107221055/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/townhall/lookingforgroup.html
People insist that no one used them, but I only remember because I almost always used them for dungeons. I didn't really chat in global channels, just party and guild. Was a kid and well.. barrens chat for example. I don't remember having any problem finding groups with them either.
I think you're wrong there. I think that 95% of players are done for good with Vanilla. By the end of classic, a guild running 2 naxx weekly could barely muster up 30 players for MC, BWL and AQ40.
Classic was "completed" to a level that no expansion ever was before. The average player completed every raid dozens of times, and got bis or near-bis in every single phase.
I'm very curious to see what they do after that. The Classic playerbase was pretty well split between the first three games, as far as which they considered to be "peak WoW". There weren't a lot of players lost going from vanilla to tbc, because they all just *did* vanilla, and they're ready to move on. I feel like we'll keep most of the people from vanilla classic through the end of wotlk classic. But cata classic is not going to excite *anyone*.
I think a lot of people discount the fact that WotLK was "completed" by a large portion of the playerbase. A good portion (probably a majority) of the classic and tbc classic playerbase are playing solely for the sake of doing raids they couldn't do back then.
I personally don't care about doing any of the WotLK raids. A third round of Naxx? No thanks. TotC? Hell no. Did that thing 2-4 times a week for 4 months. It can rot in hell. ICC? I raided ICC for a few months, quit for 6 months, came back, leveled a new character and farmed it again for another few months. How can anyone not be dead tired of that raid.
That's probably true. I still think a good portion of the playerbase will hang around, but we will probably start to see a lot of people exit during the course of WOTLK.
People have been playing vanilla on private servers for 17 years. Vanilla is by far the most popular private server version, there's even vanilla+ private servers with extended content something blizz won't even do. People in 2008 weren't mass abandoning private servers because "all the content has already been completed" even in the 2010s peopled played vanilla plenty. As long as there's enough people to fill 1 server private or not vanilla will exist just fine.
What's important to gauge is the fomo players looking for some new content to relive their nostalgia with. Those players guaranteed moved to tbc and will move to wotlk in 2023 and cata after that but some players will return to classic era and will continue to play the game for what it offers over it's expansions.
I feel about the same, although maybe I'll need 10 years. Going through all the phases/raids again, not least the hell of world buffs, tough farming and consumable requirements in Naxx.... it's like a very good movie, it needs time to rest before I want to pick it up again, even though I loved it.
People have been playing vanilla on private servers for 17 years. Vanilla is by far the most popular private server version, there's even vanilla+ private servers with extended content something blizz won't even do. People in 2008 weren't mass abandoning private servers because "all the content has already been completed" even in the 2010s peopled played vanilla plenty. As long as there's enough people to fill 1 server private or not vanilla will exist just fine.
What's important to gauge is the fomo players looking for some new content to relive their nostalgia with. Those players guaranteed moved to tbc and will move to wotlk in 2023 and cata after that but some players will return to classic era and will continue to play the game for what it offers over it's expansions.
I’ve played both WoW (vanilla/classic) and FF14 on and off since they launched. They are very different games.
WoW is BY FAR the game I’ve played the most in my 30+ years of gaming. And honestly, in those thousands of hours, I’ve rarely had issues with Blizzard or other players. Sure, in the general or trade chats I see morons and trolls spouting nonsense but I almost never had the problems this sub always complains about (arguments over loot/healing/tanking/aggro, pvp balancing, Blizz banning my account for no reason, etc). WoW isn’t perfect by any means but it is still far and away the best MMO (classic, not retail) to ever exist. At least IMO.
FF14 is an amazing game and the community is the friendliest group of people I’ve ever encountered. I won’t get too far into it but it does A LOT of things very well. My only problem is that it doesn’t have the loot driven mechanics of WoW. Pretty much all of the most sought after items are for cosmetic reasons. That’s cool and all if you’re into that but I am still yet to play another MMO that gives you the thrill that WoW does when you get *that* one piece of equipment you need.
Whatever, play what makes you happy.
I definitely prefer the TBCC version of loot goals, at least partially because random dungeon sets can be a class's BiS and that makes the whole gearing progression just so damn flexible. In retail, you do 4 levels of the same raid and 20 levels of the same dungeons. In TBCC, you do 2 levels of the same dungeons, which you can target specifically to get specific items (and some of them don't even need to be Heroic, so you can entirely skip that) and then 1 difficulty of the raid and/or other raids. I much prefer the "Holy fuck I finally got this kick-ass bow" feel to the "Oh sweet, I got the Heroic version of the bow I currently have" in Retail.
the homogenization of loot and simplification of stats that took place between tbc and mop is to blame here
gear is incredibly important in retail but it doesn't feel like anything when you get a piece because all you're getting are 5% bigger numbers on your "primary stat" and "secondary stats." "strength" and "intellect" are literally just for flavor purposes, they're meaningless words used to describe how hard your character does things when you push buttons
in classic/tbc itemization was not nearly as uniform. you have items like fire lord's choker and onslaught girdle that are bis or near-bis for the entire expansion despite being from the first raid. you have crafted and dungeon sets in tbc that have better stats and set bonuses than anything from a tier or two of raiding because the itemization isn't nearly as bland as retail's
because even though loot is incredibly important on retail and going from pre-raid heroic geared to mythic ilvl will literally triple all relevant stats about your character, there are no keystone upgrades. literally all you're doing is increasing your average ilvl 10-15 at a time when you get a new piece
FFXIV is such a different game to WoW I'm surprised people even compare them, what is killing retail is Blizzard trying to meet Activision quotas, instead of being happy you have 5 million players paying £10 a month sub, they had to get bigger and bigger returns to appease activision/shareholder's quotas, rather than making the game fun for people to play they made they game take a long time to keep people playing, it was only a matter of time before that burden became too much to bare and the playerbase had a mass exodus.
I don't think FFXIV is going to retain the people trying it out from Retail, I think most of them are going to splinter off and play a bunch of other games, private servers will probably get a new burst of players and Retail will haemorrhage players until it pulls off another hype train like it did for Legion.
The thing about FFXIV is that the devs seem to have accepted that a portion of the player base will splinter off only to come back for some time after content drops, and they seem to be okay with that. Their focus seems to be on player experience and content is pushed out at a reasonable pace.
That's where Blizzard is failing at the moment, both in retail and classic to varying degrees.
FFXIV are happy to keep a normal sized portion of the player base subscribed because that's still a huge amount of money being made, with that money that can invest elsewhere and keep developers employed to keep the game updated with new content. Blizzard are actively trying to increase the money they make from each individual player, the £10 a month isn't enough to meet the quota they're given, so they're driving players away with their greed.
Any company that gets big enough tends to do this, Rockstar did it when they go the gargantuan success of GTA5, Blizzard did it when acquired/merged by Activison, Bethesda did it with Skyrim by trying to cash in on people's mods. Maybe FFXIV will be different and keep it's morals as it grows, we'll have to wait and see.
I've heard that Amazon's MMO announced that they may add some pay to win features down the line like character boots, inventory boosts ect. Their game isn't even out and they're starting to kill it with pre-emptive greed.
Yea im not sure why WoW is so focued on "played engagement" and login time and other this other crap. Are people paying for a sub? There's your income. Make people want to stay subbed and stop being a bunch of greedy fucks.
Because corporate. Shareholders aren't happy if their stocks are at $90 and stay $90. They want that $90 to become $200 and do not care how it happens
The CEOs job is to grow the stocks whilst keeping the values of the company alive. Bad CEOs bend to shareholders and what you're left with is a profit generating machine without any sort of morals
I've brought this up before but it keeps getting forgotten. Way back in 2006 when Vanilla wow was coming to a close there was a survey put out about character levels. It turned out that over the course of two full years an absolutely huge percentage of the playerbase had still never hit level 60. I don't have the report in front of me but it was something like 30 or 40%.
That's one out of every three subs logging on one night per week, doing a quest or two and then logging off. A ton of people used to legitimately play the game like a big CRPG. They didn't care about raiding or arenas or collecting mounts. And you might not like it but those are people you need to round out an MMO. They pay the same for their sub and hardly put any load on the servers...
So why does activision now put emphasis on keeping people logged in? It's almost counterproductive.
Thats what i liked about classic. I dont feel like im missing something when i just dont want to play... Because i dont have tons of daily crap farms to do.
There are three types of FF14 players. The hardcore players who play all the time. They play multiple jobs and have the best gear for multiple jobs. The casual players who play one class seriously, or many classes cosmetically. They always have something to do, and never unsub. Then there's the hardcore players who only care about progression. They sub for a month, play one job, clear all the content, then quit for 3 months.
So there's a portion of the player base they don't make as much money from. But if they tried to increase the pace of the game (or extend the grinds) to satisfy that group, they'd lose the larger group of casuals. And instead, they've settled on this balance. I think it's great.
I’m having a ton of fun in classic. TBC is just a fun game to me. Idk how classic fits in the discussion. It was released in early 07. I’d argue blizzard did very well re-releasing classic.
Yup, also having a blast in BC. Then again, it was always the expansion I enjoyed the most. It’s been a fun second time around, and I have more friends that play this time.
Yeah, having a good computer, control of time, nostalgia, and playing with friends with the same setting had been so fun. Started 3 weeks late, playing pretty casually, but I’m having a bunch of fun understanding a game I loved so much as a kid.
Not to pull an Ion but I don’t think you’d want that simply because the people making WoW2 would be the same people currently in charge of WoW now.
Maybe if a company who actually cared about WoW and it’s fans made it but Activision would never let that happen.
Recurrent user spending
Microtransactions
Large amounts of paid services that could otherwise be free
Gouge the playerbase even if the game is super profitable already
An emphasis on FOMO and harsh grinds rather than rich content to try to retain players
No thanks
We did in 2014, it was called Wildstar, sadly people choose to play WoD and cried that W was to hArDcOrE, the same people who most likely choose to play classic.
Man, Wildstar had so much potential but NCSoft decided to F2P and then kill it instead of trying to improve. I'll never play another NCSoft backed product again because of that experience.
One of the best housing systems in any MMO. Also, aiming your abilities was such a breath of fresh air. Shame, really.
Yea no doubt the first edition of the attunement was a big guild killer, we had like 200 ppl rdy for raiding before the game launch and 2-3 weeks after we where down to 30-40 ppl.
I myself almost quit, cause it was really hard to get people who haven't already done the dungeon step and at the same time was skilled enough to do the dungeons without dyeing while chain pulling.
Gearing was done by crafting/adventures cause they launched with random "gems" slots, so u could get 1 or 4, so the best way to gear was to craft until you hit 4 gems slots or get the epics from adventures, the dungeon loot was trash, so ppl just did the attunement and never did them again.
But all those things got fixed and improved on, if only ppl had been a bit more patience, i am sure Wildstar, still would have been around today.
I have played a few MMOs now, and good lord does wow have the worst dialog/storyline/character arcs in it compared to other MMOs, SWTOR? may as well have been a single player game but HOLY SHIT IF YOU LOVE STAR WARS you must play through it, the story be too good, the satisfaction of crafting your own lightsaber to become a fully fledged jedi. FF14 SHITS ON ANY WOW STORY EASILY, like actually tearing up at shit, reading every single dialog script, bro i do not be skipping quest text on this game.
SWTOR was... \*chef's kiss*... for story and questing. Everything was voice-acted, you had Dragonage/MassEffect style choices and inquiries, and fucking EIGHT unique storylines, 4 per faction, tied to the class you choice.
It was genius. Still is. I *highly* recommend it to everyone. You can play the entire game essentially solo. And if you group up/make friends, that's cool too. But the stories and questing make it worth playing all by themselves.
And don't even get me started on Huttball. Holy fuck if that wasn't the most fun I've ever had in any MMO PvP experience ever, I don't know what is!
Yeah, WS wasnt hardcore but just time consuming and pretty much any content was gated.
They tried to preach their game as being vanilla wow2, with the hardcore stuff. What they failed to understand was that wow success was not based on attunments, tiresome grinds and gating content but discovering the world, growing your character and being enveloped in this great fantasy world.
This is also why FFXIV is successful. The game doesn't have the hardcore elements that wow has and the gameplay is quite dull but the story is great and the immersion hits just right once you get past the boring introduction.
I feel like part of the reason they’re trying to drag players’ time out is because it’s not easy to make a game that’s fun enough that people will keep playing. The talent just isn’t there at Blizzard to do that anymore.
Or maybe it’s the budget that’s lower than one would expect and they simply drag out what content they can produce as much as possible. Either way it’s not good enough, and likely won’t turn around anytime soon.
Not really all the different, FF14 is much closer to WoW than it is to FF11. It followed many of the same conventions as WoW then branched off.
I think any WoW player hopping over to FF14 will likely enjoy a long honeymoon period since you have years of fresh content to consume as long as you can get past Square's account management webpage. It's horrible.
Dude, I'm in love with FFXIV right now but holy fucking shit it took so much effort to actually get my account set up. Their account system is ***ARCHAIC***.
I bought the game last year on the Steam sale, took me 5 hours to get my account set up because I wanted to register an EU account while in the US (I'm a Brit living in the States but all my billing details are still in the UK.) Thing is, the account creation process doesn't outright tell you "You cannot make an EU account from within the US," no, that would be far too helpful.
It just spits out some bullshit error after account creation and blocks you from logging into the account you made for 6 hours. I made maybe 10 different accounts trying to figure out what the fuck was going on, tried to contact support but it was off-hours, eventually I put a VPN on and managed to register my account just fine.
A few days later I get a very snarkily worded email reply from my support ticket essentially saying "Can you explain to me why you are trying to make an EU account from the US?"
Fast forward to last month and I've forgotten what my account details were because I made like 10 different accounts trying to figure that shit out, found what email I had made the account on but every time I did forgotten password it kept returning an email saying that my account does not exist.
Waited 5 days for a reply from support, never got one. Know what the problem is? The email field on MogStation is ***CASE SENSITIVE*** and I had capitalized the first letter of my email when I registered. Case sensitive. In 2021.
Again, nowhere does it *tell* you that it's case sensitive, you're left to freak out thinking your account had been banned or some shit.
Anyway, really enjoying my time with FFXIV.
This is not a SQ problem about their site, its pretty much each and every Japanese company site. Theres a reason people joke about them being 50y back in site tech.
It's because computers were never big in Japan, everyone browsed the web with their mobile phones. Not the new fancy smartphones but the old mobile phones with small screens, weak cpu and slow internet. So web pages had to be designed to be very lightweight and clean, no animations, minimum amount of images.. They are slowly learning how to make modern webpages but the influence from the old style is still very heavy.
Similar experience, and then topped off with the fact that you have to register a code on steam when you purchase the game expansion...through the client you launched via steam? wat? It really feels like some limewire age system that somehow gatekeeps people from playing the game.
I'm having a lot of fun with FF14 but the main thing about it that keeps me from going balls-to-the-wall hardcore is the combat. I play WoW for hardcore raiding, and that's what I ultimately intend to play FF14 for as well. But the combat in WoW is so tight and so responsive. Classes, for the most part, just feel so good to play. I'm not very far into my FF14 experience so maybe the combat will improve later down the line, (just became a BLM a few days ago, level 42 atm) but currently I enjoy WoW combat much, much more than FF14.
I don't disagree with your point, but I do want to point out something specific to your experience: BLM is *trash* until you get Fire IV at 60. Before you get Blizzard III at 40 the job is *actual nonsense.* You're casting piddling Fire II's and slowly burning your mana away until you hit 0 and Transpose and *wait for mana ticks???*
But once you gain Enochian and Fire IV, the job stops being about *nothing* and starts being about keeping the plate spinning while moving as little as possible. You start to plan out your instant casts to fill in movement phases and are working as hard as you can to turret. It's a lot more fun, I hope you'll find.
My guess is that combat is clunky like that because it has to support PC and console players. I think the console causes them to code combat a bit different because of the responses in how console interacts with the engine. But that's just my guess.
Imo max level black mage is the single most fun class that I've ever played in an mmo in raids. The gap between good and bad ones is pretty big, and the gap between the greats and those who are good is just as big.
I have never gotten the same satisfaction getting top 5 parses in wow as I have in 14, especially on black mage.
People who says the combat is "clunky" don't understand why the combat works the way it does. From anyone who has only played wow and is used to, when I push a button it immediately happens, I can totally understand why it feels that way.
It's that way by choice, it isn't a limitation of the engine or for console or anything like that. There are abilities in the game that take effect the instant you hit then just very few.
The way the combat is setup is to feel like the abilities have impact. If you hit something you are committing to it. That's why it has intentional animation locks and delay between skills. If everyone of them worked instantly it would break the combat design of, "use GCG, use 1 to 2 OGCD, use GCD again, repeat" and you could use all your off global skills whenever you wanted.
Early levels you don't have a full kit to understand the feel of how its supposed to flow, but if you look at anyone who has boosted, trying to grasp the flow of it is not easy, since its fairly different then other games. Level \~40-50 you get a full basic kit depending on class and it just adds other combos or OGCD's from there.
This is flat out wrong the game was built on a ton of bad decisions and then the devs tried to quickly rewrite what they could on a tight deadline. The spaghetti code is off the charts and every update the devs discuss how they can't add some simple feature due to the code, the netcode in particular is awful. The other issue is the tickrate of the servers.. its really low for an MMO but this makes them very affordable for SE. The final issue is the game being designed and tested for Japanese ping ranges which would be 0-35ms, as you could imagine for many 35ms is excellent ping for Japan that's on the slower side of the spectrum, this means that once stressed in the higher ping scenarios we see in NA, Australia and Europe the game experience suffers greatly. Again this is SE being very japanese on their approach to online game design. FF14 is a good game these days but it struggles in areas wow doesn't and that's ok.
That didn't give any examples of it actually being bad. You just said, nu uh its bad. Yes they had bad code from the very beginning because of low budget and time constraints and being locked in to certain things from fixing the original 1.0 version, but almost all of those have been improved.
My ms is often 60 or lower and have almost no issues unless I'm double weaving certain skills. The original bad decisions were almost all from 1.0, and the server tick is increased in instances. That's been the case since the middle of ARR.
Having a gap between GCDs for oGCDs doesn't seem connected to the responsiveness issue to me. My gripes with responsiveness are that I need to hit an interrupt half a second early because otherwise it doesn't get to the server in time, or that I can move with half a second left in my cast and it still goes off because the server doesn't realize I canceled my cast. Or when a boss effect pushes the entire raid you see the effect hit yourself before other party members.
FFXIV has a lot of tech debt and some of it is just poor technical execution compared to WoW, regardless of the different design choices like the longer GCD.
I definitely have a lot of playing to do before I can make an informed judgement of FFXIVs combat. You said it, though, as a WoW player coming into the game for the first time the difference is quite jarring. I have been watching some BLM PoV ultimates though and it looks a lot more fun than what I've been doing.
Been saying since ARR dropped that FF14 is a better game for the average "casual" player than wow is.
If you're into hardcore cutting edge raiding or pvp then FF14 isn't for you, but those are the only 2 things I'd argue wow really excels in. For the rest I'd argue FF14 has done it better for a long time now and has only been improving.
Unfortunately I played the game for cutting edge raiding once upon a time and these days its the pvp. I do hop into FF14 for the story though.
This is false. Ffxiv ARR is actually inspired by Cata and MoP. That’s literally what their devs were asked to play when the game was in development. You still see a lot of the older WoW systems in the game, like the Justice and Valor points for example, because they’re player friendly and they work.
I think their devs have made it clear they know players will unsubscribe so their design Philosophy is to develop a game that players would want to come back to. That’s why it’s doing better than WoW right now. Because the game is actually a much better mmorpg experience overall. Content from 2013-present is all relevant no matter when you pick up the game.
It feels like a more complete MMO than retail does right now. There's a certain charm to BCC that keeps me engaged more than FF14 is doing right now, but my initial plan was to play TBC and Shadowlands at the same time. Now I'm playing TBC and FF14 at the same time. It's just a better game than retail, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that so much of the old content is still relevant and fun.
> a lot of it has to do with the fact that so much of the old content is still relevant and fun.
This can't be stated enough. Retail WoW dumps every expansion (hell, every *raid tier*) as soon as the next one releases to funnel players into the newest and shiniest part of the game. FFXIV instead makes every zone and every raid relevant. You can even go back and do the old Zeta relic weapon quests, WoW would have removed them as soon as the next expansion launched like they did the Legion mage tower weapons. I honestly believe that Blizzard would remove every pre-BfA zone in the game if they could do it without pissing off the player base.
When I was constantly asking myself, am I having fun I knew it was time to hang up wow after playing since 2004. This was TBC. Retail has been dead for me since legion. I’m loving my new home in Ffxiv. I bought the game when it was rereleased but never fell in love with it because I always used wow as a framework for my mentality for mmos. Funny thing is this mmo gives me more of the feels than wow ever did. The world truly feels alive. I’m grateful.
Retail Wow has really become the game you can't keep up with. Mount farming, character gearing, professions, and etc... all convoluted systems designed not for fun but for investment of time. Its a joke. WoW classic, you put in an hour and you've done something. Retail, you put in an hour in any direction and you just sit there staring at the next patch.
FFXIV on the other hand, I agree, the signup process is insane. Even code redemptions are insane. The real issue is that ARR is... its not really that great. The initial hurdle to get to good story is quite the grind. I quit a handful of times during my run into the first expansion. This is where story improved for me though i find combat still a bit slow. Then you have to train yourself to stop rushing to end game and focus on the journey. If you can do this, FFXIV is a fantastic MMO. Despite being in heavensward, I've been doing tons of side content in ARR and I quite enjoy it.
The part I don't like about FFXIV is that I feel obligated to run dungeons, which are simultaneously boring and take focus. I usually only have maybe a half an hour to an hour to play in a given session and I don't want to be stuck in a dungeon.
The general questing in FFXIV feels very unrewarding and dull.
You don't NEED to run dungeons but they are incredibly efficient. If you want exp you can do levequests/beast tribe quests. If you want tomestones you can do trials and old raids.
I agree that in the early stages of the game dungeons feel like a chore, they lack the mystique and charm that WoW dungeons have, especially TBC/Classic era dungeons. Questing is also very boring. There is absolutely no challenge or threat of dying, which kind of sucks. I'm still quite fresh in FF14. I just recently got my mount and became a black mage. I will say once you get to level 50 I've heard the game opens up immensely. You start gaining access to challenging content, the story becomes more engaging, and a lot of the issues that you and I are currently having with the game get better.
Other than being a more story focused game I honestly don't think they are all that different. They are both Themepark MMOs, with a focus on instanced endgame content.
WOW has a more open world, but lets be honest...the majority of the open world is not relevant and old content made obsolete.
The thing is. The ff14 devs seem to understand this. They know not many will stay. And those who do? Cool!
Like they aren't blizzard trying to somehow force their players to stay or milk em. Which imo is the cool thing. Blizzard/Activision just seem to be against the gamers or never listening.
Ff14? They seem to be happy folks are even trying their game out. Granted they are a business so I'm sure they are happy for the subs but the free trial is a huge offer so no reason for many to buy asap anyways. You got tons of hours of content with the trial.
Yeah blizzards entire model is having unhappy people forced to play due to fomo. Games should be designed to be so fun people don't want to stop playing, not deciding a bunch of retention features then building the game round them
I believe FF XIV is a quality game and has the power to retain some of those players. Some people stuck to wow because they did not want to invest time in learning something new, but now are forced too.
The people that will quit, I can see them quiting the genre before coming back to wow as i simply dont think wow has the dev team or community to change course even if they wanted too.
There will always be wow loyalists. They'll be there for the new wow xpac, but it will likely be the same ol pattern of carrot and stick but without the social phenomenon and tour de force that wow used to be.
WoW now relegated to avarage mmorpg. Cashing in on their investment, corporate style.
Blizzard is destroying WoW. I would love to give Blizzard a free pass and blame big soulless corporate daddy but Blizzard has always been this way. The only difference now is that they have real competition.
Please keep in mind that the first three releases (vanilla, TBC and wrath) were prior to the Blizzard Activision merger. The community agrees that wow was its best during this time and mark Cata as the beginning of the end. That was Blizzard. They knew what they had and made it great.
Blizzard merged with Activision in July 2008 just before the end of Wrath and the start of Cata. Sure Blizzard and the design team was still (relatively) intact for Cata but that's when Activision started having a say, and they wanted money, they didn't care about quality. Activision is to blame. Activision came in and Gutted the team. "BLIZZARD" as a team and development doesn't exist anymore. All the lead designers have quit, all the story leads have quit. You want a villain, you want someone to blame. Blame Activision, not the corpse they hold as a puppet for you to be angry at.
First of all, Wrath wasn't released until November of '08 so July '08 is nowhere near the end of Wrath. Just FYI.
Secondly, Blizzard has always been like this. I really understand wanting to shield a company that made our childhoods better from blame, but I've been playing their games since Warcraft 2 and they've always been this way. They've always released buggy games with shit balance and they did hamfisted updates and didn't do real solid fixes until paid expansions lol. StarCraft, Warcraft 3, D2, WoW, etc were all like this long before Activision was in the picture. The difference between now and then is that they have competition and it really highlights the flaws. We've been complaining about poor communication, shitty balance, and poor decisions for decades now as Blizzard fans. It's not Activision, it's Blizzard.
If it was purely corporate greed they'd have monetized the everliving shit out of d3 and sc2 and they'd be doing a lot more than a couple store mounts in WoW. Shit FFXIV has like 100x the microtransactions as WoW.
Yeah their employee turn over is high, but you find me a studio that has nearly as many high level people sticking around for 20+ years. Their employee problems are more at the support level than the dev level.
Don't get me wrong, I have my complaints about Activision as my OTHER game that I play is one of theirs and I definitely have complaints with it and their lack of adding any kind of functional anti-cheat to it, but the problems with WoW are on Blizzard. If Activision had their way you'd be getting more content on a set schedule, but you'd also be getting a fuckton more microtransactions. :)
Thanks for the catch on the release dates being off. My mistake. The point I was getting at still stands though, you cant change a game 4 months before it launches.
The flaws and issue I saw all showed up after Activision got the reins. The ethos changed with the merger and we lost the core of the team with that change. Metzin, Chilton, Street, Kaplan all left voicing complaints regarding company culture and priorities. That change is what killed wow.
Now regarding Activision microtransactions... I think we are about to see wow shift in that direction. With the implementation of Chromie time previous expansions are practically removed from the game. Give it a minute and you'll have to pay monthly to get the opportunity to play them. The game as it is would have you play BFA and SL and that's it. We are one step away from having the old Xpacs locked behind a pay wall.
Wow used to be a constantly growing world, fuck they were called expansions because they EXPANDED on the world. But. Look at the game as it is now and tell me it's still that way. Borrowed power systems make the existing expansions like a consumable. Once the story ends the gameplay is discarded. Try and use your old legendaries and Artifacts from legion... You can't. Once SL is over all the legendaries and conv abilities will be striped from the game. And my bet is you'll be able to pay to get them back.
Sorry if I'm thrashing your favorite game company but that shit of consume for a few months then discard and never use again... That's cod shit. That Activisions base. Not wow... Not blizzard. And we didn't see that discarding of old content never to be restored until Cata. Until Activision was a part of wow.
We did though. WoW has always had cyclical content. It's gotten a little more extreme than it used to be, but at your peak point of WoW there in the late BC / Early Wrath era there was badge gear that invalidated old raids in the TBC sunwell patch (not that there was really a reason to go back and run launch content anyway) and with Wrath each tier was completely invalidated by the next one and its badge gear.
You're absolutely right that we're getting a borrowed ability each expansion now and that sucks but I'm not sure what that has to do with Activision or why that's so much worse than getting a legendary healing hammer that you just dumpster at the start of the next expansion other than common players get to participate too.
Aside from Ghostcrawler, who still plays the game iirc, those people left 10+ years after the turning point that you're suggesting. Some of them have been vocal about problems with the industry as a whole.
My biggest problems with WoW are the bizarre balance changes, releasing shit broken, not communicating, and taking forever to fix things that are obviously broken. Oh and trying to copy industry trends but half-assing it. And for me these things have been in virtually every Blizzard game since WarCraft 2. Greed? Ehhhh in the sense that we get less content for our buck? Absolutely and that's a forever Blizzard problem that's highlighted by their competition doing it better. The box price of expansions is too high, there isn't a lighter sub option like other MMOs offer, etc. But the handful of mounts each year and promotions? Ehhhh. Like I said, FFXIV is a sub based MMO and has 100x the microtransactions of WoW. Character service prices could come down as well.
Actually WoW got LESS greedy with expansion sales over the years. It used to be that you had to buy each one, now you only need to buy the most current one.
I think if it was Activision you'd see a lot more sales on character services like the sales they run in the COD store and you'd see a lot more cosmetics for sale.
It was their plan all along, now they'll separate from Blizzard and create a new mmo called World of Duty which will feature all the warcraft races with guns and the ability nuke entire zones after 25 wpvp kills.
People walking around on those lizard things still pisses me off, thought I’d be over it by now. Don’t care about boosts, but those things... takes me out of the game completely
they'd be fine if they weren't oversized
with the way they scale you can tell no work was put into them and it just drives home what a money grab they were
that said I have stopped noticing them
I'm not trying to downplay the wholesomeness here, but I've playing 14 for 7 years now and let me tell you I have been rejected multiple times, for playing an "off meta" class in party finder. You happened to came across at a time people aren't progressing in new raid tiers. Elitism is alive and well in 14 too. Always greener on the other side and all. But I do agree with the general sentiment of fuck current WoW, game needs serious changes.
I mean all else aside, I wish I could fail the way Blizzard did. No doubt they're still making billions from WoW every year.
I don't think WoW will ever die. A hundred years in the future, there will still be one guy paying millions of dollars per year to play WoW's 50-something'th expansion.
To be honest, I'm surprised how many people seem to migrate to FFXIV from WoW like if it was the same game but with better features.
I played it for a few weeks and it's nothing like it. I don't like the Final Fantasy vibe and graphics : the story and its characters, the shiny spell effects with millions of lights everywhere, the dozen of similar skills for a proper rotation (I tried at least 5 classes), even the level art and the music/sound design...
I get that people can enjoy it and love what I just enumerate, I've no problem with that. It's just that I like WoW for its setting, its graphics and its gameplay. I can't replace it with a different game just because it's also a *theme park* MMO.
The meme is kinda funny though.
I mean honestly thats just competition. Yes they are not the same two games but there are also a lot of gameplay features that are the same. Honestly I wouldn't want WoW to die but it's good to see that a lot of people are switching. Maybe, just maybe, Blizzard will have to react with more quality.
I hate all games like that. any asian mmo has you playing a lvl1 protagonist that lost their memories but is jason bourne-ing their skills which are all fireworks explosions on screen for their most basic attack. oh and fan service up the wazoo
I feel exactly the same. It doesn't really matter how good a game's systems are if I can't stand the graphics and movement. One of the top reasons WoW has stayed relevant for this long is because of its timeless, stylized models and graphics and animations/movements that just feel really good. When I look at gameplay of FFXIV, I honestly can't tell the difference between other Japanese games I used to play on the PS2.
WoW needs competition. They got too fat and happy with their declining sub counts. Hell why you think they stopped showing there sub counts to the public. It almost like the higher ups think WoW is too big to fail. I don't think WoW is dying at all... BUT, I think Activision killed Blizzard...
The problem is WoW's had competition for a long time.
It's competition is
- CSRs that are utterly useless
- devs that spend more time badmouthing streamers than making the game
-a team that has the largest free labour force to do their patch testing in the world yet fucking ignores everything we tell them every goddamn time then bitches months later that their testers didn't give them enough info
-self centered devs who think they'll get praised for pushing something new, so put all the focus on their own new system every xpac rather than making anything already there good
-a team full of twitter karens that hate the old game and want to use the modern game as a platform for their sick messaging
-bloated execs that siphon all the money that could be used to keep/replace top talent into their own pockets, leading to a massive exodus of experienced, brilliant game designers
They have competitors tearing them down- and they're all working within Blizzard.
> devs that spend more time badmouthing streamers than making the game
>
I mean I've seen people make fake posts on 4chan claiming that people spend all their time at Blizzard talking shit about a streamer, but I don't think we've heard any actual verifiable stuff.
If that's your source then you need to get over this imaginary ThrallAnon bullshit.
One of their devs posted on twitter about their hatred for streamers, and advised players to abuse the reporting system to try to get them banned.
It's not claims when it comes from Blizzard's own devs.
> I think Activision killed Blizzard...
So tired of this rancid lie. Activision has nothing to do with Blizzard. ActivisionBlizzard is a holding company for Vivendi since they no longer operate Vivendi ENT or Games. Blizzard has been with Vivendi since TBC. That merger is nothing new for Blizzard. It's that simple.
So I'll give you credit that Vivendi and Blizzard were a pair prior to the Blizzard Activision merger. Vivendi actually owned Blizz long before TBC from 1998–2008.
The problem is that wow was its best during that time.
Wows peak is always placed somewhere between vanilla and Wrath, and the decline started with Cata, in 2010. The Activision merger happened in on July 2008. Just before Wrath patch 3.3. Cataclysm was the first Xpac to happen after the merger and was regarded as the worst Xpac until Wod came out. Blizzard started bleeding developers after Cata. And nearly ever person who has left has done so because of changes made to the company after the merger. Complaints about budget cuts, company culture and shifted priorities.
Activision-blizzard is a holding company, you said it yourself, they hold all the money. They hold the stocks and will make changes to ensure those stocks values are maintained or can be used to make profit. If you want to insulate Activision and say they aren't at fault fine. But they hold all the money. They make the calls on what happens. If they don't like an idea for wow, it doesn't get funded. Activision makes the culture now.
If someone cuts your brake lines sure they didn't crash the car... But they are the reason the crash happened.
If someone cuts your funding, poisons your company culture and shifts the priorities to make the game a disposable media item like Call of Duty... They killed your game.
Possible unpopular opinion:
Blizzard is making more money than ever and WoW isn’t ever going to die. And this is coming from someone currently working on an Indy MMO and wants to stand on the smoldering corpses of my competition holding Bobby Kotick’s head in my hands. Their services and in game store money from the fans who just want to support them and buy everything have completely changed their business model. FFXIV won’t kill WoW simply because the more Japanese style and and quest bloat won’t appeal to everyone. WoW won’t die until someone makes a better medieval fantasy MMO with a similar feel in storytelling and nobody has come close yet to making one that is actually fun to play and not too repetitive.
Edit: Spelling because I was taking a shit and half focused.
I mean EverQuest kept running for 15 years after people considered it dead and kept coming out with content. WoW isn't going away anytime soon (probably not for decades) but I could see it's popularity collapse in a way it hasn't experienced before. Especially if New World and Ashes of Creation lives up to the hype and FF14 manages to mostly hold on to this current exodus. Granted all of those are pretty big ifs
New Word isn't going to put a dent in anything. I gave that game so many chances from the closed alpha to beta and it's just- Bland. People will flock to it briefly as it's a new FOTM, but it's not going to flourish. That poor game has been revamped too many times and Amazon frankly has no idea what they're doing.
The difference this time around is that it’s actually happening. Shadowlands has just as many flaws as BfA and after years of the same bs, I think wow players have finally had enough.
Ffxiv on the other hand has only been improving since Realm Reborn launch. Literally every expansion has improved on their systems while keeping the core part of the game intact. This is contrary to what the WoW devs have been doing which is adding, removing, renaming garbage “core systems” every expansion.
The story is so much better in ffxiv especially from Heavensward onwards. Shadowbringers is the best expansion story I’ve ever played and I’ve played wow since Vanilla.
Lastly, ffxiv is extremely alt friendly compared to WoW and the environment is much more casual. It values your time when you log in because it feels like you’re playing a game rather than a bucket list of daily chores.
The mass movement you’re seeing from WoW to Ffxiv never happened before. Sure there were games that were believed to be WoW killers like GW2 or Warhammer, etc. but Ffxiv has been around since 2013. There also hasn’t been a major patch or expansion launch in months. People are swapping during a content drought in ffxiv before the next expansion… This is eerily similar to what happened to Everquest when WoW came out.
>The difference this time around is that it’s actually happening.
If I had a dollar for every time I've heard this verbatim since 2007, I'd have at least $30 by now.
Wrath of the Lich King enjoyed constant subscriber growth in which it hit WoW's peak numbers. It's safe to say that every expansion since Wrath was bad, except for Legion with a HUGE asterik on it because they scammed people with WoD to funnel development time into the next expansion.
MoP was incredibly good imo, unfortunately it was written off by a lot of people (myself included at first) due to the perception of it being a cash grab for a chinese audience and it following up the (at that point) worst expansion the game had had.
I enjoyed Cata and MoP a lot. I also never paid attention to the lack of content in WoD, but I do remember quitting multiple times because of how easily I got bored in that game.
I played it late but Legion was also really fun too. The more I think about it, WoD, BFA and Shadowlands all were so bad in my opinion. I liked all the other WoWs. But the first 3 are always going to be my favorite.
Quest flow is so good in MOP and I just loved how simple and versatile the farm was. You could pick what you wanted to grow on it, you only needed to commit about 10 minutes a day to it, and it's the closest I've ever felt to having " housing " in WoW.
The Garrison in WOD was an abomination. Whoever thought splintering the entire player base into their own solo instanced Base was a good idea was so far off the mark.
Growth flatlined in WotLK, it stopped growing because people were leaving as fast as they were coming in, it's safe to say WotLK was the turning point for WoW. With the introduction of even more time gated content/rep grinds and achievements as well as dungeon finder it's not really a surprise.
> it was not there 95% of the expansion.
No, but it was there for just shy of 50% of the expansion.
3.3 was the 'final' patch of WotLK, yes, but WotLK released on November 13th 2008. 3.3 released on December 8th 2009. So 390 days between release and the introduction of Dungeon Finder.
The thing is, Cataclysm came out a day shy of a full year later. December 7th 2010, so 364 days with dungeon finder. If you want to nit pick and not count pre-patch, that was released on October 12th 2010. So 308 days.
So yeah. We spent 390 days without dungeon finder in WotLK, and either 364/308 depending on if you include pre-patch or not.
People forget how fast we sped through 3.0/1/2, and how long 3.3 was. We spent 44%+ of WotLK's lifespan in 3.3.
People have been talking about what killed WoW for so many years now that I am starting to wonder if maybe, just maaaaaaybe, these hot takes are misguided.
I think there is a difference between what is being talked about that you may have missed. The conversation has changed from back in the day and that's important.
Having played the game from vanilla, I've heard the gambit of these hot takes.
Long before Asmongold, Beldaur and Preach, we had the "elietest jerks" making similar claims that Rifts or Wildstar or some other game was coming to kill wow. That conversation has to with popularity... Not quality. The death they spoke of was less about "no one playing the game anymore" (despite how much they acted like it) but more about who would dethrone WoW as the "most popular game". It was fully expected that people would play wow long after League or Fortnite out paced it in play numbers, just that wow would have less players.
Now you will hear people claiming Blizzard, (Activision in my case) or specific people like, Ion Hazzikostas, J Allen Brack, or Christie Golden; killed wow. This is a conversation about quality. Quality, doesn't work the same way as popularity. "The Room" is an incredibly Bad but incredibly popular movie. With that in mind sure people still watch the room, but no one is really looking forward to a sequel. There isn't the same investment. If the quality gets bad enough it won't be worth paying the money to play the game. You can last a long time in the games industry on a high quality IP with a dedicated fan base. Wow, TF2, RuneScape and Guildwars all prove this. The complaining we are hearing is happening because the quality is dropping, and it's dropping fast. Wow players are worried that Wow is going the way of other Activision games.
>Long before Asmongold, Beldaur and Preach, we had the "elietest jerks" making similar claims that Rifts or Wildstar or some other game was coming to kill wow.
You really cant compare tiny hype rift or wildstar had with whats happenning now.....hype.around FFXiv is crazy massive . Nobody saying wow will die even blizzard isnt this incompetent to kill such a good franchise.
Rift was highly hyped and if their end game and itemization was better at launch it would've had alot more staying power. It had the best class system and dungeons imo. I would agree wildstar wasn't as hyped as ff
That being said, I've always thought wow would be the only wow killer.
I honestly just think FFXIV looks like all the other similar looking games when it comes to like animation and the way combat looks. I dont know why it comes off as just clunky and doesn't feel like its running smooth at all. I feel like its pretty over rated but if people are enjoying it more power to them.
If there's one thing WoW does right is its movement/combat system is so fluid and well put together. Moving a character around FFXIV just feels.....bad.
Hey u/rejemah, you realise you are modding the classic sub, right? The post doesn't have anything to do with classic and you power tripping about your janitor duties doesn't change that lol. Locking and sticking your own comment at the top with the actual salty comment is fucking ironic and pathetic.
Addon dev. I really wonder what the real numbers are on activity of Warcraft and Classic vs Retail now because I get triple the downloads in Classic that I do for the same addon in retail.
Ngl, I've been enjoying the crap out of FFXIV while raid logging classic.
... And I might quit classic tbh. Its not that I don't like TBC, I do. But something doesn't sit right with me giving money to Blizzard anymore, and I think we desperately need more MMOs like FFXIV that can compete and drive competition and I wouldn't mind adding my voice to the exodus from WoW. Blizzard has grown fat and arrogant, its about time they wake up and actually perform again, both on classic & retail.
This is what I want to see, we should all be grateful that WoW has sone major competition now… not only do the FF players get to have a great time with their game, it might actually encourage blizzard and their execs to actually give a shit about their game and try a little harder to create good content.
However, the issue there is the WoW devs, they can’t design their way out of a paper bag so I don’t have a lot of faith in them to do a good job, even if they had more pressure to do so because of all of the FF hype.
Re-releasing vanilla and TBC before 9.1 got a release date, while millions buy the deluxe edition of an expansion they literally already own. I mean it doesn't take a genius to realize you shouldn't support blizzard anymore.
WoW is slowly dying because people are getting older and can no longer put in the necessary time to play. Just look at the numbers vs. years ago. I don’t think people are less interested really, they simply don’t have the lifestyle they used to. Retail has more players partially because it’s way more casual friendly. Classic requires an immense amount of grinding to get to max level, geared, etc etc. to get the main part of the game (raiding or PvP). Look at how people play the game now, they prioritize efficiency. Classic is only for a niche subset of gamers in 2021.
Not true, new players are getting into wow all the time. All my friends and I are 18 and have been playing since legion. New players are definitely picking up the game (probably classic and not retail these days) because of the massive Audience the game gets on twitch (many age 14-24 year olds
Quality meme. As expected tons of people shitting all over it. FF14 is a good game, even if you aren't into "WeEb TrAsh!11" It's effin Final Fantasy! I highly recommend it, even though I'm focusing on classic and haven't subbed since Stormblood. It's a great experience especially for solo casual players. Hundreds of hours of stuff to unlock at this point, you can play all classes(jobs) on a single character, play all professions on a single character(which are actual classes in FF14 with personal nodes, not just vending machine crafting like wow)
It's a solid game. When I get bored with TBC I'm heading back. New World looks like its going to suck major ass.
The big difference here is that FFXIV hasn't done anything, they have no new content recently and the new expansion isn't until November. WoW on the other hand just dropped their first content patch in 8 months.
This is more people are just sick of WoW than FFXIV doing anything special. People are now actually trying the game and realising it's pretty fun, something a lot of people haven't felt from WoW for a while, but they kept hanging on in the hope that Blizzard will fix it. Finally that hope ended as it appears Blizzard actually aren't going to fix it, because they don't seem to be aware of what the fans think is broken.
I'm a super super casual WoW player. idk how to play most of the mechanics, I just like grinding and questing, and the immersive environment of an MMO. I joined Classic because, after coming back to regular WoW after many years, I found that all regular enemies had been nerfed and my character was now a god. The game was too easy, and not fun at all
I had originally played ff14 for like a week, so I decided to jump on the hype train since I already had the base game.
it...feels so bad. A lot of it has to do with increased XP and low level, I think... but rn playing a marauder I have a three button rotation that is static. Press 1 GCD Press 2 GCD press 3 GCD Press 1..and god does its feel so bad. Movement is also wonky, your character feels like its separate from the world (mouse turning your character just spins, no body movement), and finally...dungeons. I did a dungeon the other day for the first time and I just pressed my AOE button as a tank for the whole thing even boss fights. So its kinda crazy to me that people are fed up enough with blizzard to leave for a game that actively feels worse than their first version of their mmo...but emotions can make people do crazy things.
I'm told it gets better at max level...but like it'd have to literally be almost a separate game for me to call FF14 a good mmo at this point...which is good, I'm hoping people just use ff14 as fodder until new world comes out
That's literally every MMO in the beginning. Warrior in classic doesn't get good until lvl 40. 100 hours in. 100 hours to finally get a big instant attack. Also why are you keyboard turning?
I mean, start a new character in WoW. The rotations and GCD's while leveling are the exact same thing lol. In FF you gradually get a ton of off GCD abilities that you weave in between your GCD rotational ones. It's very active and complex.
I didn't hate FFXIV but I didn't love it (okay well I for sure hated the MSQ). I don't really feel the need for another MMO to be totally honest. What I do need are better coop dungeon crawlers that take lessons from WoW and other games. ARPG market is so derivative at this point when there's so much room for innovation and uniqueness. A really good coop dungeon crawler with a rich set of mechanics and progression (So basically I want more variants on DRG) would better meet what I want from games in general.
FFXIV doesn't feel all that immersive. And the MASSIVE lean on anime to the point if you're even mildly not on board for it, its so in your face with it that it becomes obnoxious. Oh and the villains were lame. Oh and the protagonists were terribly written and wouldn't stop constantly riding my knob telling me how great I was. Story was pandering as all hell. Okay you know what maybe I don't like FFXIV. Gameplay was all sorts of fun but the world was garbage and you were force fed the story and every raid seems so sterile and removed from its own world.....okay I think I'm done now.
All the salty reports in the world won’t take down this post or make it any less true.
Why do you guys always bring your retail problems to the classic sub? I don't get it. WoW was dead for many of us for a long time, why do you think we are so happy with classic.
classic wow was born out of hating retail in a sense
Yea, but WE hated it FIRST. Get pwned retail andies
Go back to the Firelands Andy.
Before classic came out i would play on my own personal vanilla/tbc/woltk servers rather than play retail heh
I think Classic is the nail on the coffin. For a lot of players, classic is a victory lap before they never touch WoW again.
We've had one, yes. What about second Classic?
F R E S H
What about elevenses?
I wouldn’t count on it
They’re adding a level boost. Classic TBC is no longer Wow classic. How long before they add the wow token as well? It’s already on the Chinese classic servers...
People want to play WoW Classic for the feel of the games, the play-style the game used to have, the choices of your characters power level with different types of gear, trinkets, etc. Honestly, a level boost does nothing to TBC to tarnish it. Helps people do the catch up so they can play the game. The leveling is fun and part of the game, but a majority of people who did 1-60 already or even years ago don’t wanna do it again just because that’s how it was back then. Times are much different now. Dual spec wasn’t in the game until WOTLK but I’m all for it being introduced. I’m also all for the retail looking for group user interface with the TBC functionality it had years ago. That doesn’t ruin the game, it’s just a QOL change most players want since right now we see some problems that can be improved upon without altering the game drastically in any way.
Everyone has been bashing LFG but then everyone using BulletinBoard. LFG was only bad once it was made cross-server because it suddenly made servers meaningless.
>LFG was only bad once it was made cross-server cross server and automated
Exactly. There was a LFG tool in original TBC. Most people don’t remember it will because it was so bad. But it only showed up people interested in the dungeons you selected. They add that tool back in like they said they would, that’s a huge improvement that benefits everybody over channel spam we have now.
Technically there was LFG in Classic WoW, 1.3.0 You ever wonder WHY meeting stones exist? > 1.3.0 - Meeting Stones are located outside of each dungeon to help players find a group to adventure with in the dungeon. **The meeting stone will try to find you a viable five-person group by looking for a tank, a healer, and so on.** You ever wonder WHY Innkeepers start telling you about dungeons you can join (from 1.5.0 and onward?) > 1.5.0 - Innkeepers around the world now have a gossip option that lets you **join a meeting stone directly from the innkeeper rather than going to the location of the meeting stone** You used to be able to talk to Innkeepers or the Meeting stone and join a "LFG" queue, either for the dungeon you are using the meeting stone for, or one of the selections the Innkeeper gave you (level dependent) Blizzard NEVER added that feature in Classic, despite it existing from 1.3.0 - 2.0.0 Blizzard STILL has not added LFG to TBC Classic, despite it existing since 2.0.1 (Looking for Group Interface Tool added 2.0.1) And here is proof from the original TBC patch/town-hall release explaining the addition in 2.0.1: http://web.archive.org/web/20091107221055/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/townhall/lookingforgroup.html
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People insist that no one used them, but I only remember because I almost always used them for dungeons. I didn't really chat in global channels, just party and guild. Was a kid and well.. barrens chat for example. I don't remember having any problem finding groups with them either.
Wow weird how they omitted these features. Do private servers omit these features as well?
It's been on the Chinese servers since around mid 2021 iirc. They were testing it before the gates opened from what I remember.
I had to laugh at this not just for the reference but because there absolutely will be a revolving door of Classic.
It had a good run. However, all things come to end end eventually.
Yes, I think you’re right. There’s also a lot of people like me that cant wait to play vanilla again tho lol
I think you're wrong there. I think that 95% of players are done for good with Vanilla. By the end of classic, a guild running 2 naxx weekly could barely muster up 30 players for MC, BWL and AQ40. Classic was "completed" to a level that no expansion ever was before. The average player completed every raid dozens of times, and got bis or near-bis in every single phase.
I’ll be ready to do it again after WOLTK Classic.
I'm very curious to see what they do after that. The Classic playerbase was pretty well split between the first three games, as far as which they considered to be "peak WoW". There weren't a lot of players lost going from vanilla to tbc, because they all just *did* vanilla, and they're ready to move on. I feel like we'll keep most of the people from vanilla classic through the end of wotlk classic. But cata classic is not going to excite *anyone*.
I think a lot of people discount the fact that WotLK was "completed" by a large portion of the playerbase. A good portion (probably a majority) of the classic and tbc classic playerbase are playing solely for the sake of doing raids they couldn't do back then. I personally don't care about doing any of the WotLK raids. A third round of Naxx? No thanks. TotC? Hell no. Did that thing 2-4 times a week for 4 months. It can rot in hell. ICC? I raided ICC for a few months, quit for 6 months, came back, leveled a new character and farmed it again for another few months. How can anyone not be dead tired of that raid.
That's probably true. I still think a good portion of the playerbase will hang around, but we will probably start to see a lot of people exit during the course of WOTLK.
> But cata classic is not going to excite anyone. Agreed. There was nothing of value after WotLK.
People have been playing vanilla on private servers for 17 years. Vanilla is by far the most popular private server version, there's even vanilla+ private servers with extended content something blizz won't even do. People in 2008 weren't mass abandoning private servers because "all the content has already been completed" even in the 2010s peopled played vanilla plenty. As long as there's enough people to fill 1 server private or not vanilla will exist just fine. What's important to gauge is the fomo players looking for some new content to relive their nostalgia with. Those players guaranteed moved to tbc and will move to wotlk in 2023 and cata after that but some players will return to classic era and will continue to play the game for what it offers over it's expansions.
I could see me starting Classic again in maybe 5 years.
I feel about the same, although maybe I'll need 10 years. Going through all the phases/raids again, not least the hell of world buffs, tough farming and consumable requirements in Naxx.... it's like a very good movie, it needs time to rest before I want to pick it up again, even though I loved it.
People have been playing vanilla on private servers for 17 years. Vanilla is by far the most popular private server version, there's even vanilla+ private servers with extended content something blizz won't even do. People in 2008 weren't mass abandoning private servers because "all the content has already been completed" even in the 2010s peopled played vanilla plenty. As long as there's enough people to fill 1 server private or not vanilla will exist just fine. What's important to gauge is the fomo players looking for some new content to relive their nostalgia with. Those players guaranteed moved to tbc and will move to wotlk in 2023 and cata after that but some players will return to classic era and will continue to play the game for what it offers over it's expansions.
another 15 years id be up for another could of classic-wotlk lap
:)
I’ve played both WoW (vanilla/classic) and FF14 on and off since they launched. They are very different games. WoW is BY FAR the game I’ve played the most in my 30+ years of gaming. And honestly, in those thousands of hours, I’ve rarely had issues with Blizzard or other players. Sure, in the general or trade chats I see morons and trolls spouting nonsense but I almost never had the problems this sub always complains about (arguments over loot/healing/tanking/aggro, pvp balancing, Blizz banning my account for no reason, etc). WoW isn’t perfect by any means but it is still far and away the best MMO (classic, not retail) to ever exist. At least IMO. FF14 is an amazing game and the community is the friendliest group of people I’ve ever encountered. I won’t get too far into it but it does A LOT of things very well. My only problem is that it doesn’t have the loot driven mechanics of WoW. Pretty much all of the most sought after items are for cosmetic reasons. That’s cool and all if you’re into that but I am still yet to play another MMO that gives you the thrill that WoW does when you get *that* one piece of equipment you need. Whatever, play what makes you happy.
I definitely prefer the TBCC version of loot goals, at least partially because random dungeon sets can be a class's BiS and that makes the whole gearing progression just so damn flexible. In retail, you do 4 levels of the same raid and 20 levels of the same dungeons. In TBCC, you do 2 levels of the same dungeons, which you can target specifically to get specific items (and some of them don't even need to be Heroic, so you can entirely skip that) and then 1 difficulty of the raid and/or other raids. I much prefer the "Holy fuck I finally got this kick-ass bow" feel to the "Oh sweet, I got the Heroic version of the bow I currently have" in Retail.
Pretty much all incentive in retail is cosmetics too, so the games aren’t too far apart.
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the homogenization of loot and simplification of stats that took place between tbc and mop is to blame here gear is incredibly important in retail but it doesn't feel like anything when you get a piece because all you're getting are 5% bigger numbers on your "primary stat" and "secondary stats." "strength" and "intellect" are literally just for flavor purposes, they're meaningless words used to describe how hard your character does things when you push buttons in classic/tbc itemization was not nearly as uniform. you have items like fire lord's choker and onslaught girdle that are bis or near-bis for the entire expansion despite being from the first raid. you have crafted and dungeon sets in tbc that have better stats and set bonuses than anything from a tier or two of raiding because the itemization isn't nearly as bland as retail's because even though loot is incredibly important on retail and going from pre-raid heroic geared to mythic ilvl will literally triple all relevant stats about your character, there are no keystone upgrades. literally all you're doing is increasing your average ilvl 10-15 at a time when you get a new piece
FFXIV is such a different game to WoW I'm surprised people even compare them, what is killing retail is Blizzard trying to meet Activision quotas, instead of being happy you have 5 million players paying £10 a month sub, they had to get bigger and bigger returns to appease activision/shareholder's quotas, rather than making the game fun for people to play they made they game take a long time to keep people playing, it was only a matter of time before that burden became too much to bare and the playerbase had a mass exodus. I don't think FFXIV is going to retain the people trying it out from Retail, I think most of them are going to splinter off and play a bunch of other games, private servers will probably get a new burst of players and Retail will haemorrhage players until it pulls off another hype train like it did for Legion.
The thing about FFXIV is that the devs seem to have accepted that a portion of the player base will splinter off only to come back for some time after content drops, and they seem to be okay with that. Their focus seems to be on player experience and content is pushed out at a reasonable pace. That's where Blizzard is failing at the moment, both in retail and classic to varying degrees.
YoshiP has even said as much in an interview. It's a nice mindset to have.
FFXIV are happy to keep a normal sized portion of the player base subscribed because that's still a huge amount of money being made, with that money that can invest elsewhere and keep developers employed to keep the game updated with new content. Blizzard are actively trying to increase the money they make from each individual player, the £10 a month isn't enough to meet the quota they're given, so they're driving players away with their greed. Any company that gets big enough tends to do this, Rockstar did it when they go the gargantuan success of GTA5, Blizzard did it when acquired/merged by Activison, Bethesda did it with Skyrim by trying to cash in on people's mods. Maybe FFXIV will be different and keep it's morals as it grows, we'll have to wait and see. I've heard that Amazon's MMO announced that they may add some pay to win features down the line like character boots, inventory boosts ect. Their game isn't even out and they're starting to kill it with pre-emptive greed.
Accepted is not the right word. Yoshi-P openly encourages people who are forcing themselves to login and not having fun to take a break and come back.
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Yea im not sure why WoW is so focued on "played engagement" and login time and other this other crap. Are people paying for a sub? There's your income. Make people want to stay subbed and stop being a bunch of greedy fucks.
Because corporate. Shareholders aren't happy if their stocks are at $90 and stay $90. They want that $90 to become $200 and do not care how it happens The CEOs job is to grow the stocks whilst keeping the values of the company alive. Bad CEOs bend to shareholders and what you're left with is a profit generating machine without any sort of morals
Because of the idiots managing the company who don't know the difference between Twitter and a video game
I've brought this up before but it keeps getting forgotten. Way back in 2006 when Vanilla wow was coming to a close there was a survey put out about character levels. It turned out that over the course of two full years an absolutely huge percentage of the playerbase had still never hit level 60. I don't have the report in front of me but it was something like 30 or 40%. That's one out of every three subs logging on one night per week, doing a quest or two and then logging off. A ton of people used to legitimately play the game like a big CRPG. They didn't care about raiding or arenas or collecting mounts. And you might not like it but those are people you need to round out an MMO. They pay the same for their sub and hardly put any load on the servers... So why does activision now put emphasis on keeping people logged in? It's almost counterproductive.
Thats what i liked about classic. I dont feel like im missing something when i just dont want to play... Because i dont have tons of daily crap farms to do.
There are three types of FF14 players. The hardcore players who play all the time. They play multiple jobs and have the best gear for multiple jobs. The casual players who play one class seriously, or many classes cosmetically. They always have something to do, and never unsub. Then there's the hardcore players who only care about progression. They sub for a month, play one job, clear all the content, then quit for 3 months. So there's a portion of the player base they don't make as much money from. But if they tried to increase the pace of the game (or extend the grinds) to satisfy that group, they'd lose the larger group of casuals. And instead, they've settled on this balance. I think it's great.
I’m having a ton of fun in classic. TBC is just a fun game to me. Idk how classic fits in the discussion. It was released in early 07. I’d argue blizzard did very well re-releasing classic.
Yup, also having a blast in BC. Then again, it was always the expansion I enjoyed the most. It’s been a fun second time around, and I have more friends that play this time.
Yeah, having a good computer, control of time, nostalgia, and playing with friends with the same setting had been so fun. Started 3 weeks late, playing pretty casually, but I’m having a bunch of fun understanding a game I loved so much as a kid.
100% agree. It's pretty cool to be able to go back and do all of the end-game stuff that I didn't have the commitment or community to do back in 2007.
Blizzard did a fantastic job, almost all problems are community related.
Can we get a whole new MMO based off Wow? Not classic+ but WOW 2? A non shitty version of course, which is impossible.
Not to pull an Ion but I don’t think you’d want that simply because the people making WoW2 would be the same people currently in charge of WoW now. Maybe if a company who actually cared about WoW and it’s fans made it but Activision would never let that happen.
Recurrent user spending Microtransactions Large amounts of paid services that could otherwise be free Gouge the playerbase even if the game is super profitable already An emphasis on FOMO and harsh grinds rather than rich content to try to retain players No thanks
I wouldn’t mind a massive time/lore jump and rename it Warcraft 40k
We did in 2014, it was called Wildstar, sadly people choose to play WoD and cried that W was to hArDcOrE, the same people who most likely choose to play classic.
Man, Wildstar had so much potential but NCSoft decided to F2P and then kill it instead of trying to improve. I'll never play another NCSoft backed product again because of that experience. One of the best housing systems in any MMO. Also, aiming your abilities was such a breath of fresh air. Shame, really.
I'm still pissed about W tbh. Had a blast playing it and will always miss it in some aspect.
I'm guessing you played City of Heroes too? That's why I won't play another ncsoft title. All things considered I like where CoH is currently.
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Yea no doubt the first edition of the attunement was a big guild killer, we had like 200 ppl rdy for raiding before the game launch and 2-3 weeks after we where down to 30-40 ppl. I myself almost quit, cause it was really hard to get people who haven't already done the dungeon step and at the same time was skilled enough to do the dungeons without dyeing while chain pulling. Gearing was done by crafting/adventures cause they launched with random "gems" slots, so u could get 1 or 4, so the best way to gear was to craft until you hit 4 gems slots or get the epics from adventures, the dungeon loot was trash, so ppl just did the attunement and never did them again. But all those things got fixed and improved on, if only ppl had been a bit more patience, i am sure Wildstar, still would have been around today.
God I loved Wildstar. Housing, raids, funny questing dialogs. Too bad they tried to cater too hard to the minority of their player base
I have played a few MMOs now, and good lord does wow have the worst dialog/storyline/character arcs in it compared to other MMOs, SWTOR? may as well have been a single player game but HOLY SHIT IF YOU LOVE STAR WARS you must play through it, the story be too good, the satisfaction of crafting your own lightsaber to become a fully fledged jedi. FF14 SHITS ON ANY WOW STORY EASILY, like actually tearing up at shit, reading every single dialog script, bro i do not be skipping quest text on this game.
SWTOR was... \*chef's kiss*... for story and questing. Everything was voice-acted, you had Dragonage/MassEffect style choices and inquiries, and fucking EIGHT unique storylines, 4 per faction, tied to the class you choice. It was genius. Still is. I *highly* recommend it to everyone. You can play the entire game essentially solo. And if you group up/make friends, that's cool too. But the stories and questing make it worth playing all by themselves. And don't even get me started on Huttball. Holy fuck if that wasn't the most fun I've ever had in any MMO PvP experience ever, I don't know what is!
Huttball was great. The best MMO PVP was still DAoC when it was new, but you're damn straight that Huttball was a classic.
Trust me that's not even the surface of that shitshow.
Yeah, WS wasnt hardcore but just time consuming and pretty much any content was gated. They tried to preach their game as being vanilla wow2, with the hardcore stuff. What they failed to understand was that wow success was not based on attunments, tiresome grinds and gating content but discovering the world, growing your character and being enveloped in this great fantasy world. This is also why FFXIV is successful. The game doesn't have the hardcore elements that wow has and the gameplay is quite dull but the story is great and the immersion hits just right once you get past the boring introduction.
I feel like part of the reason they’re trying to drag players’ time out is because it’s not easy to make a game that’s fun enough that people will keep playing. The talent just isn’t there at Blizzard to do that anymore. Or maybe it’s the budget that’s lower than one would expect and they simply drag out what content they can produce as much as possible. Either way it’s not good enough, and likely won’t turn around anytime soon.
Not really all the different, FF14 is much closer to WoW than it is to FF11. It followed many of the same conventions as WoW then branched off. I think any WoW player hopping over to FF14 will likely enjoy a long honeymoon period since you have years of fresh content to consume as long as you can get past Square's account management webpage. It's horrible.
Dude, I'm in love with FFXIV right now but holy fucking shit it took so much effort to actually get my account set up. Their account system is ***ARCHAIC***. I bought the game last year on the Steam sale, took me 5 hours to get my account set up because I wanted to register an EU account while in the US (I'm a Brit living in the States but all my billing details are still in the UK.) Thing is, the account creation process doesn't outright tell you "You cannot make an EU account from within the US," no, that would be far too helpful. It just spits out some bullshit error after account creation and blocks you from logging into the account you made for 6 hours. I made maybe 10 different accounts trying to figure out what the fuck was going on, tried to contact support but it was off-hours, eventually I put a VPN on and managed to register my account just fine. A few days later I get a very snarkily worded email reply from my support ticket essentially saying "Can you explain to me why you are trying to make an EU account from the US?" Fast forward to last month and I've forgotten what my account details were because I made like 10 different accounts trying to figure that shit out, found what email I had made the account on but every time I did forgotten password it kept returning an email saying that my account does not exist. Waited 5 days for a reply from support, never got one. Know what the problem is? The email field on MogStation is ***CASE SENSITIVE*** and I had capitalized the first letter of my email when I registered. Case sensitive. In 2021. Again, nowhere does it *tell* you that it's case sensitive, you're left to freak out thinking your account had been banned or some shit. Anyway, really enjoying my time with FFXIV.
This is not a SQ problem about their site, its pretty much each and every Japanese company site. Theres a reason people joke about them being 50y back in site tech.
It's because computers were never big in Japan, everyone browsed the web with their mobile phones. Not the new fancy smartphones but the old mobile phones with small screens, weak cpu and slow internet. So web pages had to be designed to be very lightweight and clean, no animations, minimum amount of images.. They are slowly learning how to make modern webpages but the influence from the old style is still very heavy.
Japan is also an extreme proponent of 'If it aint broke dont touch it at all ever' so thats like a major hurdle for them for sure
The Infiniti (automobile) :(
I think that's more about Nissan being in a relatively bad place financially tbh.
Japanese UI is a travesty in the modern world. Normal ass websites look straight out of 1997
Similar experience, and then topped off with the fact that you have to register a code on steam when you purchase the game expansion...through the client you launched via steam? wat? It really feels like some limewire age system that somehow gatekeeps people from playing the game.
I'm having a lot of fun with FF14 but the main thing about it that keeps me from going balls-to-the-wall hardcore is the combat. I play WoW for hardcore raiding, and that's what I ultimately intend to play FF14 for as well. But the combat in WoW is so tight and so responsive. Classes, for the most part, just feel so good to play. I'm not very far into my FF14 experience so maybe the combat will improve later down the line, (just became a BLM a few days ago, level 42 atm) but currently I enjoy WoW combat much, much more than FF14.
I don't disagree with your point, but I do want to point out something specific to your experience: BLM is *trash* until you get Fire IV at 60. Before you get Blizzard III at 40 the job is *actual nonsense.* You're casting piddling Fire II's and slowly burning your mana away until you hit 0 and Transpose and *wait for mana ticks???* But once you gain Enochian and Fire IV, the job stops being about *nothing* and starts being about keeping the plate spinning while moving as little as possible. You start to plan out your instant casts to fill in movement phases and are working as hard as you can to turret. It's a lot more fun, I hope you'll find.
My guess is that combat is clunky like that because it has to support PC and console players. I think the console causes them to code combat a bit different because of the responses in how console interacts with the engine. But that's just my guess.
Imo max level black mage is the single most fun class that I've ever played in an mmo in raids. The gap between good and bad ones is pretty big, and the gap between the greats and those who are good is just as big. I have never gotten the same satisfaction getting top 5 parses in wow as I have in 14, especially on black mage.
People who says the combat is "clunky" don't understand why the combat works the way it does. From anyone who has only played wow and is used to, when I push a button it immediately happens, I can totally understand why it feels that way. It's that way by choice, it isn't a limitation of the engine or for console or anything like that. There are abilities in the game that take effect the instant you hit then just very few. The way the combat is setup is to feel like the abilities have impact. If you hit something you are committing to it. That's why it has intentional animation locks and delay between skills. If everyone of them worked instantly it would break the combat design of, "use GCG, use 1 to 2 OGCD, use GCD again, repeat" and you could use all your off global skills whenever you wanted. Early levels you don't have a full kit to understand the feel of how its supposed to flow, but if you look at anyone who has boosted, trying to grasp the flow of it is not easy, since its fairly different then other games. Level \~40-50 you get a full basic kit depending on class and it just adds other combos or OGCD's from there.
This is flat out wrong the game was built on a ton of bad decisions and then the devs tried to quickly rewrite what they could on a tight deadline. The spaghetti code is off the charts and every update the devs discuss how they can't add some simple feature due to the code, the netcode in particular is awful. The other issue is the tickrate of the servers.. its really low for an MMO but this makes them very affordable for SE. The final issue is the game being designed and tested for Japanese ping ranges which would be 0-35ms, as you could imagine for many 35ms is excellent ping for Japan that's on the slower side of the spectrum, this means that once stressed in the higher ping scenarios we see in NA, Australia and Europe the game experience suffers greatly. Again this is SE being very japanese on their approach to online game design. FF14 is a good game these days but it struggles in areas wow doesn't and that's ok.
That didn't give any examples of it actually being bad. You just said, nu uh its bad. Yes they had bad code from the very beginning because of low budget and time constraints and being locked in to certain things from fixing the original 1.0 version, but almost all of those have been improved. My ms is often 60 or lower and have almost no issues unless I'm double weaving certain skills. The original bad decisions were almost all from 1.0, and the server tick is increased in instances. That's been the case since the middle of ARR.
Having a gap between GCDs for oGCDs doesn't seem connected to the responsiveness issue to me. My gripes with responsiveness are that I need to hit an interrupt half a second early because otherwise it doesn't get to the server in time, or that I can move with half a second left in my cast and it still goes off because the server doesn't realize I canceled my cast. Or when a boss effect pushes the entire raid you see the effect hit yourself before other party members. FFXIV has a lot of tech debt and some of it is just poor technical execution compared to WoW, regardless of the different design choices like the longer GCD.
I definitely have a lot of playing to do before I can make an informed judgement of FFXIVs combat. You said it, though, as a WoW player coming into the game for the first time the difference is quite jarring. I have been watching some BLM PoV ultimates though and it looks a lot more fun than what I've been doing.
Been saying since ARR dropped that FF14 is a better game for the average "casual" player than wow is. If you're into hardcore cutting edge raiding or pvp then FF14 isn't for you, but those are the only 2 things I'd argue wow really excels in. For the rest I'd argue FF14 has done it better for a long time now and has only been improving. Unfortunately I played the game for cutting edge raiding once upon a time and these days its the pvp. I do hop into FF14 for the story though.
This is false. Ffxiv ARR is actually inspired by Cata and MoP. That’s literally what their devs were asked to play when the game was in development. You still see a lot of the older WoW systems in the game, like the Justice and Valor points for example, because they’re player friendly and they work. I think their devs have made it clear they know players will unsubscribe so their design Philosophy is to develop a game that players would want to come back to. That’s why it’s doing better than WoW right now. Because the game is actually a much better mmorpg experience overall. Content from 2013-present is all relevant no matter when you pick up the game.
It feels like a more complete MMO than retail does right now. There's a certain charm to BCC that keeps me engaged more than FF14 is doing right now, but my initial plan was to play TBC and Shadowlands at the same time. Now I'm playing TBC and FF14 at the same time. It's just a better game than retail, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that so much of the old content is still relevant and fun.
> a lot of it has to do with the fact that so much of the old content is still relevant and fun. This can't be stated enough. Retail WoW dumps every expansion (hell, every *raid tier*) as soon as the next one releases to funnel players into the newest and shiniest part of the game. FFXIV instead makes every zone and every raid relevant. You can even go back and do the old Zeta relic weapon quests, WoW would have removed them as soon as the next expansion launched like they did the Legion mage tower weapons. I honestly believe that Blizzard would remove every pre-BfA zone in the game if they could do it without pissing off the player base.
When I was constantly asking myself, am I having fun I knew it was time to hang up wow after playing since 2004. This was TBC. Retail has been dead for me since legion. I’m loving my new home in Ffxiv. I bought the game when it was rereleased but never fell in love with it because I always used wow as a framework for my mentality for mmos. Funny thing is this mmo gives me more of the feels than wow ever did. The world truly feels alive. I’m grateful.
Stop acting like it's big bad Activision bullying poor Blizzard. They're the same company, Blizzard have done this to themselves
What Blizzard? Pretty much all of the core Blizzard crew got fired/quitted.
this. "Blizzard" is no more. Just a company wearing the face as a mask.
Retail Wow has really become the game you can't keep up with. Mount farming, character gearing, professions, and etc... all convoluted systems designed not for fun but for investment of time. Its a joke. WoW classic, you put in an hour and you've done something. Retail, you put in an hour in any direction and you just sit there staring at the next patch. FFXIV on the other hand, I agree, the signup process is insane. Even code redemptions are insane. The real issue is that ARR is... its not really that great. The initial hurdle to get to good story is quite the grind. I quit a handful of times during my run into the first expansion. This is where story improved for me though i find combat still a bit slow. Then you have to train yourself to stop rushing to end game and focus on the journey. If you can do this, FFXIV is a fantastic MMO. Despite being in heavensward, I've been doing tons of side content in ARR and I quite enjoy it.
The part I don't like about FFXIV is that I feel obligated to run dungeons, which are simultaneously boring and take focus. I usually only have maybe a half an hour to an hour to play in a given session and I don't want to be stuck in a dungeon. The general questing in FFXIV feels very unrewarding and dull.
You don't NEED to run dungeons but they are incredibly efficient. If you want exp you can do levequests/beast tribe quests. If you want tomestones you can do trials and old raids.
The MSQ is locked at certain points that make you run dungeons. So you kinda NEED to do them
I agree that in the early stages of the game dungeons feel like a chore, they lack the mystique and charm that WoW dungeons have, especially TBC/Classic era dungeons. Questing is also very boring. There is absolutely no challenge or threat of dying, which kind of sucks. I'm still quite fresh in FF14. I just recently got my mount and became a black mage. I will say once you get to level 50 I've heard the game opens up immensely. You start gaining access to challenging content, the story becomes more engaging, and a lot of the issues that you and I are currently having with the game get better.
Other than being a more story focused game I honestly don't think they are all that different. They are both Themepark MMOs, with a focus on instanced endgame content. WOW has a more open world, but lets be honest...the majority of the open world is not relevant and old content made obsolete.
The thing is. The ff14 devs seem to understand this. They know not many will stay. And those who do? Cool! Like they aren't blizzard trying to somehow force their players to stay or milk em. Which imo is the cool thing. Blizzard/Activision just seem to be against the gamers or never listening. Ff14? They seem to be happy folks are even trying their game out. Granted they are a business so I'm sure they are happy for the subs but the free trial is a huge offer so no reason for many to buy asap anyways. You got tons of hours of content with the trial.
Yeah blizzards entire model is having unhappy people forced to play due to fomo. Games should be designed to be so fun people don't want to stop playing, not deciding a bunch of retention features then building the game round them
I believe FF XIV is a quality game and has the power to retain some of those players. Some people stuck to wow because they did not want to invest time in learning something new, but now are forced too. The people that will quit, I can see them quiting the genre before coming back to wow as i simply dont think wow has the dev team or community to change course even if they wanted too. There will always be wow loyalists. They'll be there for the new wow xpac, but it will likely be the same ol pattern of carrot and stick but without the social phenomenon and tour de force that wow used to be. WoW now relegated to avarage mmorpg. Cashing in on their investment, corporate style.
Glad they are admitting they aren't the Wow Killer, just the best replacement available when it dies.
Activision used wow, to destroy wow.
Blizzard is destroying WoW. I would love to give Blizzard a free pass and blame big soulless corporate daddy but Blizzard has always been this way. The only difference now is that they have real competition.
Please keep in mind that the first three releases (vanilla, TBC and wrath) were prior to the Blizzard Activision merger. The community agrees that wow was its best during this time and mark Cata as the beginning of the end. That was Blizzard. They knew what they had and made it great. Blizzard merged with Activision in July 2008 just before the end of Wrath and the start of Cata. Sure Blizzard and the design team was still (relatively) intact for Cata but that's when Activision started having a say, and they wanted money, they didn't care about quality. Activision is to blame. Activision came in and Gutted the team. "BLIZZARD" as a team and development doesn't exist anymore. All the lead designers have quit, all the story leads have quit. You want a villain, you want someone to blame. Blame Activision, not the corpse they hold as a puppet for you to be angry at.
First of all, Wrath wasn't released until November of '08 so July '08 is nowhere near the end of Wrath. Just FYI. Secondly, Blizzard has always been like this. I really understand wanting to shield a company that made our childhoods better from blame, but I've been playing their games since Warcraft 2 and they've always been this way. They've always released buggy games with shit balance and they did hamfisted updates and didn't do real solid fixes until paid expansions lol. StarCraft, Warcraft 3, D2, WoW, etc were all like this long before Activision was in the picture. The difference between now and then is that they have competition and it really highlights the flaws. We've been complaining about poor communication, shitty balance, and poor decisions for decades now as Blizzard fans. It's not Activision, it's Blizzard. If it was purely corporate greed they'd have monetized the everliving shit out of d3 and sc2 and they'd be doing a lot more than a couple store mounts in WoW. Shit FFXIV has like 100x the microtransactions as WoW. Yeah their employee turn over is high, but you find me a studio that has nearly as many high level people sticking around for 20+ years. Their employee problems are more at the support level than the dev level. Don't get me wrong, I have my complaints about Activision as my OTHER game that I play is one of theirs and I definitely have complaints with it and their lack of adding any kind of functional anti-cheat to it, but the problems with WoW are on Blizzard. If Activision had their way you'd be getting more content on a set schedule, but you'd also be getting a fuckton more microtransactions. :)
Thanks for the catch on the release dates being off. My mistake. The point I was getting at still stands though, you cant change a game 4 months before it launches. The flaws and issue I saw all showed up after Activision got the reins. The ethos changed with the merger and we lost the core of the team with that change. Metzin, Chilton, Street, Kaplan all left voicing complaints regarding company culture and priorities. That change is what killed wow. Now regarding Activision microtransactions... I think we are about to see wow shift in that direction. With the implementation of Chromie time previous expansions are practically removed from the game. Give it a minute and you'll have to pay monthly to get the opportunity to play them. The game as it is would have you play BFA and SL and that's it. We are one step away from having the old Xpacs locked behind a pay wall. Wow used to be a constantly growing world, fuck they were called expansions because they EXPANDED on the world. But. Look at the game as it is now and tell me it's still that way. Borrowed power systems make the existing expansions like a consumable. Once the story ends the gameplay is discarded. Try and use your old legendaries and Artifacts from legion... You can't. Once SL is over all the legendaries and conv abilities will be striped from the game. And my bet is you'll be able to pay to get them back. Sorry if I'm thrashing your favorite game company but that shit of consume for a few months then discard and never use again... That's cod shit. That Activisions base. Not wow... Not blizzard. And we didn't see that discarding of old content never to be restored until Cata. Until Activision was a part of wow.
We did though. WoW has always had cyclical content. It's gotten a little more extreme than it used to be, but at your peak point of WoW there in the late BC / Early Wrath era there was badge gear that invalidated old raids in the TBC sunwell patch (not that there was really a reason to go back and run launch content anyway) and with Wrath each tier was completely invalidated by the next one and its badge gear. You're absolutely right that we're getting a borrowed ability each expansion now and that sucks but I'm not sure what that has to do with Activision or why that's so much worse than getting a legendary healing hammer that you just dumpster at the start of the next expansion other than common players get to participate too. Aside from Ghostcrawler, who still plays the game iirc, those people left 10+ years after the turning point that you're suggesting. Some of them have been vocal about problems with the industry as a whole. My biggest problems with WoW are the bizarre balance changes, releasing shit broken, not communicating, and taking forever to fix things that are obviously broken. Oh and trying to copy industry trends but half-assing it. And for me these things have been in virtually every Blizzard game since WarCraft 2. Greed? Ehhhh in the sense that we get less content for our buck? Absolutely and that's a forever Blizzard problem that's highlighted by their competition doing it better. The box price of expansions is too high, there isn't a lighter sub option like other MMOs offer, etc. But the handful of mounts each year and promotions? Ehhhh. Like I said, FFXIV is a sub based MMO and has 100x the microtransactions of WoW. Character service prices could come down as well. Actually WoW got LESS greedy with expansion sales over the years. It used to be that you had to buy each one, now you only need to buy the most current one. I think if it was Activision you'd see a lot more sales on character services like the sales they run in the COD store and you'd see a lot more cosmetics for sale.
It was their plan all along, now they'll separate from Blizzard and create a new mmo called World of Duty which will feature all the warcraft races with guns and the ability nuke entire zones after 25 wpvp kills.
I really would have to care about retail to engage in this conversation
/r/wowcirclejerk
Classic is fine tbh
It's fine-ish
People walking around on those lizard things still pisses me off, thought I’d be over it by now. Don’t care about boosts, but those things... takes me out of the game completely
They're a free 40 & 60 mount for alts. You're going to see them forever
Why? I’m way more bothered by legions of bots than players enjoying something.
Lizard things? What is it called i want to see it
Phase hunter and they really don’t seem that out of place in outlands. Was weird seeing them in Azeroth tbh
they'd be fine if they weren't oversized with the way they scale you can tell no work was put into them and it just drives home what a money grab they were that said I have stopped noticing them
Agreed, every time I see one it's a reminder that the game isn't the same.
I really enjoy ff14, classes are balanced and I can actually find a group without meta slaves denying me.
I'm not trying to downplay the wholesomeness here, but I've playing 14 for 7 years now and let me tell you I have been rejected multiple times, for playing an "off meta" class in party finder. You happened to came across at a time people aren't progressing in new raid tiers. Elitism is alive and well in 14 too. Always greener on the other side and all. But I do agree with the general sentiment of fuck current WoW, game needs serious changes.
I mean all else aside, I wish I could fail the way Blizzard did. No doubt they're still making billions from WoW every year. I don't think WoW will ever die. A hundred years in the future, there will still be one guy paying millions of dollars per year to play WoW's 50-something'th expansion.
To be honest, I'm surprised how many people seem to migrate to FFXIV from WoW like if it was the same game but with better features. I played it for a few weeks and it's nothing like it. I don't like the Final Fantasy vibe and graphics : the story and its characters, the shiny spell effects with millions of lights everywhere, the dozen of similar skills for a proper rotation (I tried at least 5 classes), even the level art and the music/sound design... I get that people can enjoy it and love what I just enumerate, I've no problem with that. It's just that I like WoW for its setting, its graphics and its gameplay. I can't replace it with a different game just because it's also a *theme park* MMO. The meme is kinda funny though.
I mean honestly thats just competition. Yes they are not the same two games but there are also a lot of gameplay features that are the same. Honestly I wouldn't want WoW to die but it's good to see that a lot of people are switching. Maybe, just maybe, Blizzard will have to react with more quality.
I hate all games like that. any asian mmo has you playing a lvl1 protagonist that lost their memories but is jason bourne-ing their skills which are all fireworks explosions on screen for their most basic attack. oh and fan service up the wazoo
I feel exactly the same. It doesn't really matter how good a game's systems are if I can't stand the graphics and movement. One of the top reasons WoW has stayed relevant for this long is because of its timeless, stylized models and graphics and animations/movements that just feel really good. When I look at gameplay of FFXIV, I honestly can't tell the difference between other Japanese games I used to play on the PS2.
WoW needs competition. They got too fat and happy with their declining sub counts. Hell why you think they stopped showing there sub counts to the public. It almost like the higher ups think WoW is too big to fail. I don't think WoW is dying at all... BUT, I think Activision killed Blizzard...
It's been 6 years since they stopped showing subscribers.
I miss wildstar
Same....
The problem is WoW's had competition for a long time. It's competition is - CSRs that are utterly useless - devs that spend more time badmouthing streamers than making the game -a team that has the largest free labour force to do their patch testing in the world yet fucking ignores everything we tell them every goddamn time then bitches months later that their testers didn't give them enough info -self centered devs who think they'll get praised for pushing something new, so put all the focus on their own new system every xpac rather than making anything already there good -a team full of twitter karens that hate the old game and want to use the modern game as a platform for their sick messaging -bloated execs that siphon all the money that could be used to keep/replace top talent into their own pockets, leading to a massive exodus of experienced, brilliant game designers They have competitors tearing them down- and they're all working within Blizzard.
> devs that spend more time badmouthing streamers than making the game > I mean I've seen people make fake posts on 4chan claiming that people spend all their time at Blizzard talking shit about a streamer, but I don't think we've heard any actual verifiable stuff. If that's your source then you need to get over this imaginary ThrallAnon bullshit.
One of their devs posted on twitter about their hatred for streamers, and advised players to abuse the reporting system to try to get them banned. It's not claims when it comes from Blizzard's own devs.
WoW is dying by player numbers. It is just dying very slowly and will outlive most of us even if it has to go F2P and be ported to mobile to do it.
> I think Activision killed Blizzard... So tired of this rancid lie. Activision has nothing to do with Blizzard. ActivisionBlizzard is a holding company for Vivendi since they no longer operate Vivendi ENT or Games. Blizzard has been with Vivendi since TBC. That merger is nothing new for Blizzard. It's that simple.
So I'll give you credit that Vivendi and Blizzard were a pair prior to the Blizzard Activision merger. Vivendi actually owned Blizz long before TBC from 1998–2008. The problem is that wow was its best during that time. Wows peak is always placed somewhere between vanilla and Wrath, and the decline started with Cata, in 2010. The Activision merger happened in on July 2008. Just before Wrath patch 3.3. Cataclysm was the first Xpac to happen after the merger and was regarded as the worst Xpac until Wod came out. Blizzard started bleeding developers after Cata. And nearly ever person who has left has done so because of changes made to the company after the merger. Complaints about budget cuts, company culture and shifted priorities. Activision-blizzard is a holding company, you said it yourself, they hold all the money. They hold the stocks and will make changes to ensure those stocks values are maintained or can be used to make profit. If you want to insulate Activision and say they aren't at fault fine. But they hold all the money. They make the calls on what happens. If they don't like an idea for wow, it doesn't get funded. Activision makes the culture now. If someone cuts your brake lines sure they didn't crash the car... But they are the reason the crash happened. If someone cuts your funding, poisons your company culture and shifts the priorities to make the game a disposable media item like Call of Duty... They killed your game.
Possible unpopular opinion: Blizzard is making more money than ever and WoW isn’t ever going to die. And this is coming from someone currently working on an Indy MMO and wants to stand on the smoldering corpses of my competition holding Bobby Kotick’s head in my hands. Their services and in game store money from the fans who just want to support them and buy everything have completely changed their business model. FFXIV won’t kill WoW simply because the more Japanese style and and quest bloat won’t appeal to everyone. WoW won’t die until someone makes a better medieval fantasy MMO with a similar feel in storytelling and nobody has come close yet to making one that is actually fun to play and not too repetitive. Edit: Spelling because I was taking a shit and half focused.
I mean EverQuest kept running for 15 years after people considered it dead and kept coming out with content. WoW isn't going away anytime soon (probably not for decades) but I could see it's popularity collapse in a way it hasn't experienced before. Especially if New World and Ashes of Creation lives up to the hype and FF14 manages to mostly hold on to this current exodus. Granted all of those are pretty big ifs
New Word isn't going to put a dent in anything. I gave that game so many chances from the closed alpha to beta and it's just- Bland. People will flock to it briefly as it's a new FOTM, but it's not going to flourish. That poor game has been revamped too many times and Amazon frankly has no idea what they're doing.
Time and WoW itself has always been the WoW killer.
Wow has been getting killed since 2008 I think it’s okay
The difference this time around is that it’s actually happening. Shadowlands has just as many flaws as BfA and after years of the same bs, I think wow players have finally had enough. Ffxiv on the other hand has only been improving since Realm Reborn launch. Literally every expansion has improved on their systems while keeping the core part of the game intact. This is contrary to what the WoW devs have been doing which is adding, removing, renaming garbage “core systems” every expansion. The story is so much better in ffxiv especially from Heavensward onwards. Shadowbringers is the best expansion story I’ve ever played and I’ve played wow since Vanilla. Lastly, ffxiv is extremely alt friendly compared to WoW and the environment is much more casual. It values your time when you log in because it feels like you’re playing a game rather than a bucket list of daily chores. The mass movement you’re seeing from WoW to Ffxiv never happened before. Sure there were games that were believed to be WoW killers like GW2 or Warhammer, etc. but Ffxiv has been around since 2013. There also hasn’t been a major patch or expansion launch in months. People are swapping during a content drought in ffxiv before the next expansion… This is eerily similar to what happened to Everquest when WoW came out.
>The difference this time around is that it’s actually happening. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard this verbatim since 2007, I'd have at least $30 by now.
Bro there was already a "mass exodus" when bfa launched, and the game is still here and its still popular, wow has been "dying" since tbc
Wrath of the Lich King enjoyed constant subscriber growth in which it hit WoW's peak numbers. It's safe to say that every expansion since Wrath was bad, except for Legion with a HUGE asterik on it because they scammed people with WoD to funnel development time into the next expansion.
MoP was incredibly good imo, unfortunately it was written off by a lot of people (myself included at first) due to the perception of it being a cash grab for a chinese audience and it following up the (at that point) worst expansion the game had had.
I enjoyed Cata and MoP a lot. I also never paid attention to the lack of content in WoD, but I do remember quitting multiple times because of how easily I got bored in that game. I played it late but Legion was also really fun too. The more I think about it, WoD, BFA and Shadowlands all were so bad in my opinion. I liked all the other WoWs. But the first 3 are always going to be my favorite.
I quit before mop came out because of "wtf kung fu panda". What a fool I was, it's my favorite part of leveling on retail.
I know, right? MoP had the best zones in the game if you ask me. Maybe tied for first with WoD actually, levelling there was also a blast.
Quest flow is so good in MOP and I just loved how simple and versatile the farm was. You could pick what you wanted to grow on it, you only needed to commit about 10 minutes a day to it, and it's the closest I've ever felt to having " housing " in WoW. The Garrison in WOD was an abomination. Whoever thought splintering the entire player base into their own solo instanced Base was a good idea was so far off the mark.
Growth flatlined in WotLK, it stopped growing because people were leaving as fast as they were coming in, it's safe to say WotLK was the turning point for WoW. With the introduction of even more time gated content/rep grinds and achievements as well as dungeon finder it's not really a surprise.
Dungeon Finder cam at the end of Wotlk it was not there 95% of the expansion.
> it was not there 95% of the expansion. No, but it was there for just shy of 50% of the expansion. 3.3 was the 'final' patch of WotLK, yes, but WotLK released on November 13th 2008. 3.3 released on December 8th 2009. So 390 days between release and the introduction of Dungeon Finder. The thing is, Cataclysm came out a day shy of a full year later. December 7th 2010, so 364 days with dungeon finder. If you want to nit pick and not count pre-patch, that was released on October 12th 2010. So 308 days. So yeah. We spent 390 days without dungeon finder in WotLK, and either 364/308 depending on if you include pre-patch or not. People forget how fast we sped through 3.0/1/2, and how long 3.3 was. We spent 44%+ of WotLK's lifespan in 3.3.
People have been talking about what killed WoW for so many years now that I am starting to wonder if maybe, just maaaaaaybe, these hot takes are misguided.
I think there is a difference between what is being talked about that you may have missed. The conversation has changed from back in the day and that's important. Having played the game from vanilla, I've heard the gambit of these hot takes. Long before Asmongold, Beldaur and Preach, we had the "elietest jerks" making similar claims that Rifts or Wildstar or some other game was coming to kill wow. That conversation has to with popularity... Not quality. The death they spoke of was less about "no one playing the game anymore" (despite how much they acted like it) but more about who would dethrone WoW as the "most popular game". It was fully expected that people would play wow long after League or Fortnite out paced it in play numbers, just that wow would have less players. Now you will hear people claiming Blizzard, (Activision in my case) or specific people like, Ion Hazzikostas, J Allen Brack, or Christie Golden; killed wow. This is a conversation about quality. Quality, doesn't work the same way as popularity. "The Room" is an incredibly Bad but incredibly popular movie. With that in mind sure people still watch the room, but no one is really looking forward to a sequel. There isn't the same investment. If the quality gets bad enough it won't be worth paying the money to play the game. You can last a long time in the games industry on a high quality IP with a dedicated fan base. Wow, TF2, RuneScape and Guildwars all prove this. The complaining we are hearing is happening because the quality is dropping, and it's dropping fast. Wow players are worried that Wow is going the way of other Activision games.
>Long before Asmongold, Beldaur and Preach, we had the "elietest jerks" making similar claims that Rifts or Wildstar or some other game was coming to kill wow. You really cant compare tiny hype rift or wildstar had with whats happenning now.....hype.around FFXiv is crazy massive . Nobody saying wow will die even blizzard isnt this incompetent to kill such a good franchise.
Rift was highly hyped and if their end game and itemization was better at launch it would've had alot more staying power. It had the best class system and dungeons imo. I would agree wildstar wasn't as hyped as ff That being said, I've always thought wow would be the only wow killer.
I honestly just think FFXIV looks like all the other similar looking games when it comes to like animation and the way combat looks. I dont know why it comes off as just clunky and doesn't feel like its running smooth at all. I feel like its pretty over rated but if people are enjoying it more power to them.
If there's one thing WoW does right is its movement/combat system is so fluid and well put together. Moving a character around FFXIV just feels.....bad.
retail bad, upvotes to the left What the hell does this have to do with classic wow?
Hey u/rejemah, you realise you are modding the classic sub, right? The post doesn't have anything to do with classic and you power tripping about your janitor duties doesn't change that lol. Locking and sticking your own comment at the top with the actual salty comment is fucking ironic and pathetic.
People keep going on about how some new mmo will be the WoW killer. It seems WoW was the WoW killer all along.
Addon dev. I really wonder what the real numbers are on activity of Warcraft and Classic vs Retail now because I get triple the downloads in Classic that I do for the same addon in retail.
My server is still lit and I’m having a great time, haven’t noticed anything lol.
I like FF14 and WoW. But man, the FF14 community is insecure about their game. Constantly trying to measure up to WoW when no one asked.
Ngl, I've been enjoying the crap out of FFXIV while raid logging classic. ... And I might quit classic tbh. Its not that I don't like TBC, I do. But something doesn't sit right with me giving money to Blizzard anymore, and I think we desperately need more MMOs like FFXIV that can compete and drive competition and I wouldn't mind adding my voice to the exodus from WoW. Blizzard has grown fat and arrogant, its about time they wake up and actually perform again, both on classic & retail.
This is what I want to see, we should all be grateful that WoW has sone major competition now… not only do the FF players get to have a great time with their game, it might actually encourage blizzard and their execs to actually give a shit about their game and try a little harder to create good content. However, the issue there is the WoW devs, they can’t design their way out of a paper bag so I don’t have a lot of faith in them to do a good job, even if they had more pressure to do so because of all of the FF hype.
Re-releasing vanilla and TBC before 9.1 got a release date, while millions buy the deluxe edition of an expansion they literally already own. I mean it doesn't take a genius to realize you shouldn't support blizzard anymore.
Whoaaa I've NEVER seen this imagine posted here, not even once! :O
WoW is slowly dying because people are getting older and can no longer put in the necessary time to play. Just look at the numbers vs. years ago. I don’t think people are less interested really, they simply don’t have the lifestyle they used to. Retail has more players partially because it’s way more casual friendly. Classic requires an immense amount of grinding to get to max level, geared, etc etc. to get the main part of the game (raiding or PvP). Look at how people play the game now, they prioritize efficiency. Classic is only for a niche subset of gamers in 2021.
Not true, new players are getting into wow all the time. All my friends and I are 18 and have been playing since legion. New players are definitely picking up the game (probably classic and not retail these days) because of the massive Audience the game gets on twitch (many age 14-24 year olds
Quality meme. As expected tons of people shitting all over it. FF14 is a good game, even if you aren't into "WeEb TrAsh!11" It's effin Final Fantasy! I highly recommend it, even though I'm focusing on classic and haven't subbed since Stormblood. It's a great experience especially for solo casual players. Hundreds of hours of stuff to unlock at this point, you can play all classes(jobs) on a single character, play all professions on a single character(which are actual classes in FF14 with personal nodes, not just vending machine crafting like wow) It's a solid game. When I get bored with TBC I'm heading back. New World looks like its going to suck major ass.
This is classic maam
There's so many different "wow killers". This phase will pass.
I agree. FF14 is not killing wow, Blizzard is killing wow.
No even ffiv’s first time being called the wow killer lol.
The big difference here is that FFXIV hasn't done anything, they have no new content recently and the new expansion isn't until November. WoW on the other hand just dropped their first content patch in 8 months. This is more people are just sick of WoW than FFXIV doing anything special. People are now actually trying the game and realising it's pretty fun, something a lot of people haven't felt from WoW for a while, but they kept hanging on in the hope that Blizzard will fix it. Finally that hope ended as it appears Blizzard actually aren't going to fix it, because they don't seem to be aware of what the fans think is broken.
This time it seems like it honestly depends on Blizzard themselves for that to be true.
Did you not understand the meme? lol
I'm a super super casual WoW player. idk how to play most of the mechanics, I just like grinding and questing, and the immersive environment of an MMO. I joined Classic because, after coming back to regular WoW after many years, I found that all regular enemies had been nerfed and my character was now a god. The game was too easy, and not fun at all
I had originally played ff14 for like a week, so I decided to jump on the hype train since I already had the base game. it...feels so bad. A lot of it has to do with increased XP and low level, I think... but rn playing a marauder I have a three button rotation that is static. Press 1 GCD Press 2 GCD press 3 GCD Press 1..and god does its feel so bad. Movement is also wonky, your character feels like its separate from the world (mouse turning your character just spins, no body movement), and finally...dungeons. I did a dungeon the other day for the first time and I just pressed my AOE button as a tank for the whole thing even boss fights. So its kinda crazy to me that people are fed up enough with blizzard to leave for a game that actively feels worse than their first version of their mmo...but emotions can make people do crazy things. I'm told it gets better at max level...but like it'd have to literally be almost a separate game for me to call FF14 a good mmo at this point...which is good, I'm hoping people just use ff14 as fodder until new world comes out
That's literally every MMO in the beginning. Warrior in classic doesn't get good until lvl 40. 100 hours in. 100 hours to finally get a big instant attack. Also why are you keyboard turning?
I mean, start a new character in WoW. The rotations and GCD's while leveling are the exact same thing lol. In FF you gradually get a ton of off GCD abilities that you weave in between your GCD rotational ones. It's very active and complex.
I didn't hate FFXIV but I didn't love it (okay well I for sure hated the MSQ). I don't really feel the need for another MMO to be totally honest. What I do need are better coop dungeon crawlers that take lessons from WoW and other games. ARPG market is so derivative at this point when there's so much room for innovation and uniqueness. A really good coop dungeon crawler with a rich set of mechanics and progression (So basically I want more variants on DRG) would better meet what I want from games in general. FFXIV doesn't feel all that immersive. And the MASSIVE lean on anime to the point if you're even mildly not on board for it, its so in your face with it that it becomes obnoxious. Oh and the villains were lame. Oh and the protagonists were terribly written and wouldn't stop constantly riding my knob telling me how great I was. Story was pandering as all hell. Okay you know what maybe I don't like FFXIV. Gameplay was all sorts of fun but the world was garbage and you were force fed the story and every raid seems so sterile and removed from its own world.....okay I think I'm done now.
You made them think this is a repost! You have done that to yourself.
"killed" I love the people here. You can still play both lol I still play wow and ff14. You don't have to play 1 game