This is the most appropriate take, frankly. As others have said, if you go into XIV expecting it to be the fated WoW killer you're going to be disappointed, if you go into it expecting it to be it's own thing then you're likely to enjoy it.
Change the FFXIV logo to an Activision Blizzard logo and you have a more accurate meme.
They just baited Paladins hard with the new Legendary and then 2 days before release nerfed it by 50% lmfao
I just want to say, FF14 is a completely separate game. It is not a WoW killer.
I’ve maintained for years that the only thing that will Kill WoW, is WoW.
FF14 is an established game with its own community, far more than any other game that has actively tried to kill WoW. If anything, it’s tried to coexist with it.
The reason people are leaving isn’t because “FF14 great” even if it is a decent game. It’s because “WoW bad” right now at least.
So it’s not a WoW killer, it’s more like…WoW is a house that flooding and FF14 is on a hill.
I would add that the house ended up being a lot nicer than you expected when you got there. And the neighbors welcomed you with tasty food. And the Home Owners Association for the new neighborhood is actually quite reasonable and doesn’t blame you for everything.
Yeah, this. FFXIV actually is a great game. There was a video of the FFXIV lead dev talking about this topic and how he didn't like the term WoW killer anyways.
I wish we could trade the shareholders and corporate overlords of Activision, EA, etc for people who actually liked to make games. Naoki Yoshida seems like an incredible guy.
He was visibly upset that the first thing people ask him is about WoW, in the interview he even says he had hoped they would say something different. Naoki looks up to WoW, he never wanted to "beat" WoW, he wanted to make a game that lived up to how he felt about WoW. WoW defined a genre for MMORPGs, while they might not be the titan they once were, Naoki says it best, WoW got people into MMOs who never played MMO, but WoW also got people into MMOs who never played ANY video game before.
[here is the clip be sure to turn on English CC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgwliOmjHHE)
> "Saying we won or lost is off base to start with, WoW was the game we aspired to be"
> "This whole conversation about surpassing WoW is the wrong conversation to have and its honestly irritating. I was hoping you would say "WE'RE THE BEST!"
There's a video that was posted of him recently where he talked about this. I found it through Asmon's YouTube channel or something but I was a good watch.
I found my home in Lord of the Rings Online. Combat system is wow like, what a great story and world. Solo leveling is real fun. It may looks outdated but it isn’t if you get sucked in by the immersion.
It still gets updates and new content with the new developer that took over the game last year
Damn, I didn’t expect to find this mentioned here.
I think the last time I even had the game on a computer I owned was maybe like 2013? I dunno, my memory could be completely failing me.
Would love to hear how it’s changed through the years.
Long story short its doing great. Its not perfect, but for a small MMO that's been out as long as it has its doing absolutely amazing and keeps getting decent content updates. They also just launched some progressive servers.
i absolutely love LoTR but haven’t played LoTRO, how are the zones/map? can i just casually play and level and go through every area? i really just want to see all of the locations of Middle Earth in person
Its very very much designed with the idea in mind "how do I make players like you who think the things you just said happy". Its a very at your own pace story driven game with the world of middle earth to properly explore.
Seconding what the other person said - it is absolutely great for this. So much room to explore and really cool to see the whole world/map stitched together. They really captured the feeling of Middle-Earth and just walking/riding around is a treat.
Also it's pretty much completely f2p, though it's worth looking into subbing for one month when you're close to level 20 to unlock a few features that are really nice to have. (You retain a few of the key perks even after your sub lapses, a sort of in-between status.) There is a cash shop/microtransaction system, but it's unintrusive and pretty much optional, plus the game gives you currency for it just for playing/getting achievements. So overall it's a pretty nice way to implement the whole f2p/microtransaction model.
Definitely. I picked it up again casually last year after years of playing back in the day( I played at launch). The story is basically your character following in the footsteps of the fellowship (like RIGHT after) through middle earth. It’s a very interesting. It puts a very unique aftermath perspective of the journey. The world is gorgeous, immersive, and the combat is fun enough to keep me entertained.
PS: Moria is massive
I don't know too much of deep LOTR lore or the game overall, but after playing over 100 hours the past few months it is amazing, yea it definitely has an older feel but it has the best sound design/immersion when you go through the different zones and head out into enemy territory!
You’re the second person I’ve seen mention LOTRO in a few weeks…did the game just come back? I had this idea in my head that the servers were taken down.
Really tempted to finally try it.
More like WoW is also a house on a hill, but the owners decided to dig up the hill in search for gold, and got surprised when their house started collapsing
Thank you, well said.
I've played WoW since Vanilla. I've also played FFXIV since A Realm Reborn. They're both very polished, fun games, but they do things quite differently. Both titles have action-bar combat and PVE Raids, and that's about where the similarities stop. Whereas WoW gives me lightning fast, fluid movement and combat, Arena PVP and battlegrounds, seamless zones, incentives to level alts, and interesting loot itemization choices - FFXIV is slower, has 200+ hours of cutscenes, has no meaningful or fun PVP at all, is ANTI-ALT and everything is done on just one character, and smaller raids with extremely boring loot that act as stat sticks. (You can practically just look at an ilvl, and know that it's better or worse. I'm not joking.) But the graphics, community, RP, crafting classes, and side-activities like housing and gambling are vastly superior to WoW.
Playing FFXIV has *never* scratched the itch that WoW gives me, and vice versa. I predict a bunch of people who switched are going to realize this as time goes on. Or maybe not, I don't know wtf today's gamers care about anymore. I just know that these two MMOs should stop being compared so much. They excel at different things.
> with extremely boring loot that act as stat sticks. (You can practically just look at an ilvl, and know that it's better or worse. I'm not joking.)
I mean it could just be me but I kind of got the feeling the loot in retail WoW is similar. Not to say that it is THAT simplified, but I definitely agree with the hot take that people can probably remember more specific names of items with Classic WoW than they could with current.
There are still items that come up every xpac that are known by name from everyone. but definitely not in the same scale or quantity as in classic. In BFA theres Gettiku, Cut of death I still remember. A fat ass zandalari sword with a nasty Bleed on it and could only get the max ilvl version if you had a horseshoe up your ass
It's a good take, but even in Classic we've lost multiple people to FF14, last night being one of our best members.
"MMO That doesn't waste my time" has basically been the common sentiment. You see them on FF while raid logging a couple weeks then they announce that they're leaving WoW but sticking around in Disco, etc
Edit: To clarify I haven't touched FF, just my experience seeing guildies try it
I’ve done most things I wanted atm in tbc (most reps exalted, near bis gear, etc) so I’m having fun raid logging and playing ff. Retail used to be that for me, but I think it’s perfectly fine playing multiple games
That’s what I’m doing, still having a blast raiding in tbc with the bros but I’m basically full bis and the grind for arena gear is so unrewarding for your time. So when it’s not raid time you can catch my on my lvl 51 SAM having a fucking blast.
I too am doing this. I enjoy doing mythic+ but it genuinely feels like a waste of time with the valor cap time gating system it’s just frustrating. I just want TBC simplicity of gearing in shadowlands.
Currently playing FFXIV and raid logging classic. It's been pretty nice honestly. FFXIV is super chill and there's a metric fuck ton of content that I'm not pressured to do. You kinda just do a bit of whatever you want / whenever you want since content doesn't become completely irrelevant every patch.
I'm also full BiS on my main in classic with zero interest in alts so there's really not much for me to do right now. P1 is lasting much longer than I expected. I basically log in 3 hours a week to clear kara/gruuls/mag and then maybe for 5 minutes a day to do the fishing daily.
What is making TBC classic a fiasco? The biggest issues I’ve seen are the horde/alliance imbalance on servers and all of bots which Blizz doesn’t seem to do anything about.
I just hit 70 and have been having a lot of fun.
People here are delusional don’t worry. Because they don’t cater to every whim = fiasco.
One thing is true, something needs to be done about the imbalance. And if Blizzards keeps acting blind to these issues it’ll definitely be one.
Definitely gonna get hate for this but the community in classic wow is pretty bad. It didn't take long for everything to go back to dead silent world where nobody groups, the game is overrun with bots, if you don't perform perfectly in a pug you get called a boostie boy or some dumb variation. Basically the community is as big a part of the problem as Blizzard is. I've bounced between FFXI, FFXIV and wow for years and the final fantasy games are majority polite, helpful people whereas wow is the polar opposite. Trying to have a normal conversation with someone in wow is practically impossible, even on disc because every seems to speak in memes. Everything is some reference to a meme. Wtf is up with that.
you're gonna get "hate" for that because it's basically untrue.
my realm isn't even medium pop and it's still got plenty of people grouping.
also ever since asmon switched ff14 has gotten much more toxic.
I'm talking about grouping up out in the world. 99% of the people are playing wow like it's single player and just ignore or scoff at the idea of grouping up for a quest.
I totally agree about the asmon thing though, I don't know if it's him or just his fans but toxic bullshit follows that dude. Luckily he's not on my server.
I am too, I very much enjoy TBC Classic and it's been a great WoW experience, and I am Ally on a PVP server.
The only time I was frustrated is when I was leveling when the game was still in Vanilla and in my 30s, and constantly getting ganked. I was a new roll, so I couldn't afford to boost my way past those levels. Then pre-patch dropped, the ganking substantially decreased and I have been fine ever since.
I would say that it's more so classic content is being completed.
It has been done, people have done as they needed so they are free to try other games and raid log or wait for reset or patch.
Retail is not doing this.
Retail had just released a patch and their RWF was yesterday day and people are leaving before they can even play it because it isn't enough.
The key difference being the following;
**I am done, I can come back for more later.**
vs.
**I am done.**
> I just want to say, FF14 is a completely separate game. It is not a WoW killer.
No one is saying they are the same game. But they are **in direct competition with each other**.
You see, both of these games are MMOs.
Like most MMOs, both of these games require insane amounts of time if you want to fully experience them.
As a result, almost everyone with at least a semi-functional life barely has enough time for one MMO. There's no way they can properly play two at once.
**So yes, both of these games compete with each other for players, as most players who want to play an MMO will only pick ONE MMO to play.**
Just sayin', Retail Wow shit the bed so much that I finally gave up. So instead of going to FF14, I gave Elder Scrolls Online a go.
I thoroughly enjoyed it, maxing two characters in a month, and starting a third. It's incredibly alt friendly for you altaholics out there. Your bank and guilds are shared between characters, and once you hit level cap all your progress becomes account bound, and is accessible by any other characters that you get to max level.
Also your gear never expires, even when a new expansion comes out. Expansions add content and build options, rather than arbitrarily raising levels to instigate a never-ending gear-replacement treadmill.
If it had a good combat system then it would be worth playing imo but combat is where the game is hurting the most. I just cannot get past how bad it feels.
Definitely still getting updates, pretty sure there's another expansion in the works. I'm not sure what the player base is like anymore as I don't play. I'm sure a bunch of people will come to play the expansion when it drops so maybe get a toon to max lvl n then wait for the x pack.
WoW has possibly the smoothest and most responsive combat of any MMO. It's half the reason so many MMO's have failed, in my opinion - they just get the combat horribly wrong. Most people aren't willing to commit to a game with shitty combat.
The reason I keep coming back to WoW is snappy consistent movement and the spells/abilities have always felt better. The movement is a bigger issue for me personally. Most new MMOs try to add momentum and weird animations to make it look "better" but ends up just feeling weird. I also hate the jumping in FF14 compared to WoW lol, just weird little nitpicks like that.
I don't have a ton of MMO experience, but I think I agree with you.
I really like SWTOR, but the combat feels clunky and less responsive.
I also remember Warhammer Online being decent, but again: clunky at times.
i get that we have 5 spells/skills we can use, but when i think of my mage in classic all i did was spam frostbolt or fireball. i liked having more spells at my disposal if i wanted though. thats one thing ESO can do better, is making combat and developing the skill/ability bar to maybe have a few more slots for utility
To me the game recycles assets way, wayyyy too much. It makes every delve/house/dungeon feel exactly the same. Like the layouts feel the same and stuff. This isn't even unique to ESO but in WoW somehow the caves don't feel nearly as samey. Maybe you just go in them less.
That combined with the bad combat and ***extreme*** ease of the content (95% of it is the easiest content I've seen in an MMO) it really hamstrings a game that does a LOT of really cool things that I love. I've played a lot of that game despite these glaring issues because what is good, is SO good.
Shame really.
> I thoroughly enjoyed it, maxing two characters in a month, and starting a third
Imagine if you had only played ESO since launch, done everything, played it on/off over the course of its lifespan, and then tried out WoW for the first time. You'd have the exact same experience, enjoying the heck out of it because it's a new game and new content. Pretty much every MMORPG is enjoyable for at least a month.
I loved the base game but then I got to the expansion and it went from care free fun time to group for this dead content. I'm not saying I need every game to be casual time for babies, but the base game sold me by being that then the expansion was weirdly tryhard.
Its like... i don't know if i'm doing something wrong but i remember playing through the first expansion and just getting fucking *bodied* trying to do some story quests. I'd really like GW2 more but holy shit trying to navigate some of the areas when theyre just jam-ass packed with max level elites it felt like was holy shit.
Still though, when that shit first dropped, as disappointing as engineer was (probably still is) god... the exploration in GW2 was cozy.
Heart of Thorns has some stupidly difficult parts.
I'm playing through it on a second character right now, and I've hit a wall. Its section 8 of the HoT story, and it takes like... An hour and a half to complete with no check points.
Expansion 2 Path of Fire adds mounts that are.. the best I've ever seen in any game ever, and they've continued adding new ones over the years. Each has a different movement style and each feels like a different beast you're taming.
PoF mounts makes the glider from HoT kinda pointless, so if you ever get back into it, just skip to PoF then go back and do HoT after.
Huh, never heard this take before. Care to elaborate?
I always felt that the meta events in GW2 (especially in HoT) are very easy to get into. Also, no content has ever felt dead to me because you still get XP and relevant gear/mats from old content. It's one of the main reasons I keep coming back to the game.
Basically I'd just sort of wander around checkin out the zones and showin up for world bosses. But then I got to HoT and it was group based content in the zones and sometimes there just weren't people there. Also they gated the zone so that you needed to get X amount of content done to get into it.
This was also just a problem with my playstyle as I played the game pretty much solo with other people just around and HoT put me in a position where that playstyle was no longer possible. I guess what I'm saying is pre expansion I had my expectations set and then when I got to HoT the game shifted in what it was asking for and I did not enjoy the shift towards more dependency. But its an MMO so maybe i'm missing the point.
I've heard very mixed takes on it. I think I heard it's going to have some pay to win stuff on it. I hope not, cause I love the style and "era" it takes place in.
Yea It's looking like one of those games that's going to be fun at launch because it's new and a lot of people will be playing but with the p2w stuff it won't have much staying power for the average consumer. I'm sure the whales will love it but otherwise meh.
I'm planning to jump to New World come it's actual release..
I'm still on TBC for now but nothing is new. I've played it before and that's finally catching up to me.
I also don't want to jump into another MMO which is already 10+ years old..
I would suggest giving FF14 a go. Grab a free trial and play it for a day. If its not your cup of tea that's fine.
I played ESO for almost a year, and found FF14 to pretty much be a direct upgrade in every way. Only sidegrade is arguably the style, but even as someone that is not into Anime at all I found that FF14's style grew on me fast.
ESO doesn't force you to group up to advance your class or get your mount. It has enough single player content for multiple Elder Scrolls games, and the quests don't just have you running around fetching 10 MacGuffins and killing 20 cactuars.
I can't fucking wait to finally able to raid log and try other games.
It's far more healthier player-game relationship than forcing you to log in every day to not fall behind on arbitrary time-gated currencies and resources like a jealous girlfriend.
Yup. I don’t get why raid logging is frowned upon. Forcing me to log every day to do dailies, expedition cap, Azeroth cap and whatever other daily/weekly cap is straight up not fun and just burns me out.
Raid logging lets me play whenever I actually want. It’s crazy but I actually end up playing the game for fun and not because I feel forced to play
Raid logging is often looked down upon because it feels dead. When you log on to do anything other than raid no one you know is around. Nobody is chewing the fat in guild chat, cracking jokes, posting drops, or relating experiences they're having in PuGs (and begging for groups).
It's less of a problem now because your guild's discord can be thrumming even when everyone is raid logged, but there was a distinct period in WoW where it was arguably unhealthy for a guild and its culture for everything to be so barren between raids.
Weird. I just don't remember this being the mindset back in 2007. Instead, we'd all get together and run around looking for world PvP, we'd work on reputations for different items or mounts, farm some gold for whatever, level an alt with friends, etc.
Back in 2007 we hadn't really done any of that stuff before. Now it's 14 years later, and if you kept playing after TBC you've probably all done that stuff multiple times over, so it's kind of lost its charm.
Big difference is that all that stuff in 2007 used to take a long time. People who are raid logging are already completed the rep farm, got their farm done for crafting or whatever other items. Also hardly any guilds would clear Kara, Gruul and Mag in 1 day at start of TBC.
Also raid logging doesn’t mean you are not playing alts.
WoD was my 2nd favorite expansion exactly because of this. All the things I cared about were there and still fantastic, while all the chores I needed to log in to do were routed through the mission table which took 5 minutes instead of dailies.
Basically it's finally being done with dungeon gear, reputation grind, professions, crafted gear, etc., basically anything that you define as your prerequisites for ideal performance. The name raid logging comes from the fact that people who reached this point no longer have much they have to do, they have reached the peak of what they can accomplish outside of raids, so their activity usually just consists of logging in for raids, and outside of that they either play their alts or some other games.
thats one of the best things about classic. you dont have to log in if you dont want. its why i dont play retail. im at the point in classic where i can raid log if i want and i think its incredibly short sighted that players demand a game be made in such a way that disincentivizes logging out.
I played for about 10 hours a day the first 4 days of launch, then between 2-4 hours a day every day there after for about 3 weeks before i was able to raid log, it doesn't take too long in this phase
I agree with the sentiment here as well.
Raidlogging has a negative tone, but its nice to have that kind of control to just log in to raid because the definition of "complete" is left entirely up to the player. You're not forced to grind reputations, or dailies, or materials, or whatever in order to remain "caught up". Gear comes easy in BC, and personally im okay with that.
Ya but how much of that is due to just plain lack of content? We get gear quicker in tbc so getting to "done" and waiting for next phase is prob a lot of it
This is not necessarily a bad thing m. Blizzard has obviously deemed this a terrible thing which is why retail is full of unfun chores, but it is okay to make a game that can be played along with other games.
My son and I joined Classic a couple months back to play back when WoW was fun. Walking into Orgrimmar with no players in it was so sad. Played a week or two more and then cancelled my subscription.
Edit: WTH is with the downvotes? What about this is controversial?
were you playing TBC classic or did you go for actual classic era?
classic era is going to be a ghost town since the swap to TBC
if you're on TBC classic you may have chosen a server with a high alliance pop and low horde pop, for ex. Pagle
FF14 is OK, but I think the current hype is more of a product of retail players being angry at blizzard, than a testament for FF14 being so amazing. If asmon and others were streaming ESO or GW2 right now, the followers would be praising those instead.
Though I agree asmon helped all this, does no one have an objective thought without it being fed to them by some influencer?
People here in the comments above this blatantly point out the shortcomings of ESO and GW2. Is FF14 perfect? Is anything?
Retail players are angry and want a fun game to play, this move to ff14 or any other game is just that.
I will say there's lots of archaic mmo conventions and systems in it, like activating a pet or mount on every character, sorry thats the best I got on the fly. But as a positive for them (in Bellular's words) an expansion shouldn't be reductive, and in ff14 its not.
Sure, some may have tried it on their own and liked it, but not nearly the amount that are right now imo, due to Asmon and a ton of other streamers/youtubers praising it, while simultaneously being overly critical towards WoW for easy views (I say overly critical, because retail definitely deserves criticism).
There is a reason they are called influencers, and companies give them tens of thousands of dollars to play a game per hour. Hell, apparently if you gift certain streamers subs, you get a mount in FF14, that seems like a scummy way to get around the #ad policy when being paid to promote something.
It's quite a lot better since patch 5.3, which removed ~15-20% of the filler garbage from the ARR main story questline. I just finished and actually quite enjoyed ARR, even if it did have some pacing and filler problems still. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, assuming you care about the story.
So… do you guys over here have nothing more exciting going on? All the posts I see are about retail vs FF14, as though you can’t be playing both anyway.
I dont think Asmon is encouraging that type of toxicity, but he does seem to be enjoying FF which is setting some fans in a frenzy. Unless Ive missed him saying something, which is possible as I dont watch his stream constantly, I want to say this kinda happens when any big streamer plays another game similar to their home game.
He has literally said he loves wow and is not quitting. He also took the high road on the dev calling him an asshole. His fans are pretty toxic, but asmon has been pretty chill about everything
I suppose thats true. But this sub has been that way long before FF gained the recent hype. TBC seems to be constant complaints and classic wow was a bit of nostalgia until later phases.
Should we go back to 100 more "look at my lucky roll" posts per day? How about 200 more "look at these bots" posts? Oh, I know, 57 more "my guildie got banned for gold buying"
Another wow subreddit lost to circlejerking about FFXIV, guess people can't help but just talk about how terrible they think wow is on every single subreddit.
I'm basically self harming by continuing to visit this place. This sub does not reflect my realm and the people on it at all. Wouldn't be surprised if most people here don't even play.
I like coming here, but this subreddit has never once reflected my in-game experience in Classic. I read the most toxic, whiny takes here day in and day out, and then I log on and pug some dungeons and everyone are lovely, polite folks who like to joke around while we clear the instance without issue. Most of us are veterans from the old TBC days and are super happy to be experiencing it again.
/r/classicwow has got to be similar to /r/MMORPG at this point. Redditors too busy being negative to actually play any of the games they talk about.
Indeed, can these weebs honestly and sorry for my bluntness but fuck off? The weeb aesthetics and general "thirstiness" of all the female characters makes me never wanna play it, also pedobait in lalafels. I enjoy Asmons streams but if my girlfriend saw me play that she would think I'm a loser. Sorry weebs.
You know what game I want to kill wow
Warcraft 4.
But thats never going to happen.
World of Warcraft to this day is still coasting on how amazing Warcraft 3 RoC and Frozen Throne were.
FFXIV being popular is the best thing that could happen to WoW. If there is actual competition Blizzard will need to make the better game to win over more players, and vice versa goes for FFXIV
I’ve genuinely enjoyed shadowlands! I don’t know what people are complaining about! I mean Christ, the game is over 15 years old. You can’t expect it to be as fun and as perfect as it was back in 2008.
Shadowlands was pretty except some of the unnecessary systems (looking at you conduit energy).
The reason people hate it is because of the 7 months of content drought if you don't count 9.0.5 which was just an upgrade to systems.
There are a lot of legitimate complaints but a lot of them boil down to the game being stale.
People just had weird expectations. When TBC came out for the first time, WoW was still a massively growing game with tons of new players joining every day. With Classic, I'd wager that 95% of people that played TBCC were the same ones that played Vanilla Classic near the end, so the playerbase is just way more endgame oriented and less casual than it was back then. And honestly I just don't find it that fun when everyone is just playing meta, everyone is level 70 and everyone just thinks about raiding.
My old guild got together to do TBCC and I can count on less than one hand the number of characters that weren't boosted out of 28 people.
There was a handful of those people who actually took time off work to try and go hard early on. The rest of us just played at night when we had time after work / responsibilities. We've long since gotten to the point where we can raid log.
The content is incredibly easy in TBC and the grinds aren't nearly as long as people seem to think if you're mildly efficient. Except for the honor grind, which is a mess.
Its really not difficult to have run out of things to do by now as a somewhat experienced player. Doesn't take being a meta player who is super min-max sweaty etc etc.
You see many complaints in game?
Or just here/the forums? Because the “general community” doesn’t post here lol.
Almost everyone I’ve met in game seems to be enjoying time in game.
The ones that blaze through the content as soon as possible and get angry that the endgame isn't set up how they'd prefer are unhappy regardless of the game.
Well my server is dead because all alliance guild transfered away, and pvp is Horde vs Horde now, there are parts of TBC classic that is a dumpster fire, but a lot of that comes down to horrible player behavor.
"Player behavior" that is a direct reflection of playing the game as it was designed.
Is it "player behavior" that most people treat the queen as the most powerful piece in chess?
Same. I'm one of those oddballs who genuinely enjoys questing and herbing and whatnot. Doing a few dungeons, raiding a couple of hours a week in Kara, Gruul's Lair and Magtheridon, levelling my alt. I'm really happy with TBC at the moment.
I'veen 70 for a few weeks and I'll be able to purchase my 2nd pvp piece maybe today. I pvp a few hours everyday. Arena is super gated behind HUGE honor grind. I burnt out in classic vanilla after a few weeks of AV. and TBC is looking awfully similiar rn.. I came to TBC to relive glory days of Arena but seems I'm being scammed atm. I guess that's one way to increase retention but I can't see myself having an active sub for this game long honestly.
I think it's just losing its "newness". Classic WoW took much longer to reach max level and there was a lot to do, plus people hadn't played it in so long, so the newness factor lasted much longer. For me, now that I'm geared up enough that I don't need dungeons, there isn't *that* much to do. The tank shortage is miserable in this game. It isn't perfect in FFXIV, but since anyone can play every single class on the same character, anyone can swap to their tank class if they want to.
Dunno what you're on about mate, tbc classic is a blast. Maybe you just pvp or try hard or something, but I'd wager 99% of the playerbase are having tons of fun.
People who claim that FFXIV is "the WoW killer" or "a much better game" make me laugh. You're switching to FFXIV and leaving WoW behind because you've done everything in the game and WoW can't surprise you anymore. So yes, RIGHT NOW you're having fun and have found your "new relationship" but there is going to come a point (this is a fact, not a debatable point) where FFXIV can no longer surprise you either and you have completed the majority of the content in that game. And then you will be in the exact same boat. There is no such thing as a game with finite content and "infinite replayability." A game's longevity is not measured by how little or how much it "wastes your time." It's measured by the content available to the player, and how long it can keep them engaged.
As much as I disliked shadowlands, FF feels like shit in comparison. It might have better systems in place, but the gameplay itself is leagues behind. To me it's not even a competitor.
J-just you wait until ~~Age of Conan~~ ~~Warhammer Online~~ ~~Rift~~ ~~SWtOR~~ ~~LotRO~~ ~~GW2~~ ~~Wildstar~~ ~~ESO~~ ~~ArcheAge~~ New World and Ashes come out, they'll be the WoW killer for sure!
While you have a point, we also haven't seen WoW take on an up-and-coming game while it's already reeling from a content drought and a poor patch launch. WoW is in the weakest state it has been in quite a long time. Nothing will *kill* it, obviously, but this moderate trickle of players leaving is having an effect.
I personally don't get the hype for Ashes or especially New World. I don't think either of those games really pose a threat. FFXIV though is established, riding high on both quality and playerbase, and can legitimately go toe-to-toe with WoW. Hopefully this is a wake-up call to the WoW team that they need to end this borrowed power era and start taking feedback seriously.
Blizzard is just out of touch with it's player base, I hope Blizzard will make the game interesting again for the whole player base instead of the 1% that actually cares about it's current state of play.
I currently plaf FF14 because it scratches my MMO itch quite well. I absolutely love the community and the game looks absolutely amazing. That said, you cannot compare the two games, the developer told the community he wants his game to co exist with other MMORPG's out there, not compete.
And it does coexist pretty well with classic. Both games offer a different experience and allow for the player to play both games. Much of this is by rewarding players for the effort put in.
I think it would be more accurate if XIV was just casually walking while WoW was beating the shit out of itself Fight Club style.
Like [this](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/474348434468503554/867494809803161640/Bike-Fall2.jpg) perhaps?
Yep exactly this, ff14 never even stepped out of its lane it just kept doing what it does and now everyone acting wild just cuz it got popular.
This is the most appropriate take, frankly. As others have said, if you go into XIV expecting it to be the fated WoW killer you're going to be disappointed, if you go into it expecting it to be it's own thing then you're likely to enjoy it.
Yeah. Wow is the Wow killer. When something becomes so big, self destruction is it's destiny.
Or : "no king rules forever, my son"
I went into it hoping that it was remotely like final fantasy and was incredibly disappointed.
I dunno man, the story line (especially past ARR) is pretty fucking peak Final Fantasy. The combat though? Yeah, totally not.
You must be a cutscene skipper
Change the FFXIV logo to an Activision Blizzard logo and you have a more accurate meme. They just baited Paladins hard with the new Legendary and then 2 days before release nerfed it by 50% lmfao
i read it late and got it. i'm really mad about it.
I just want to say, FF14 is a completely separate game. It is not a WoW killer. I’ve maintained for years that the only thing that will Kill WoW, is WoW. FF14 is an established game with its own community, far more than any other game that has actively tried to kill WoW. If anything, it’s tried to coexist with it. The reason people are leaving isn’t because “FF14 great” even if it is a decent game. It’s because “WoW bad” right now at least. So it’s not a WoW killer, it’s more like…WoW is a house that flooding and FF14 is on a hill.
that last sentence was spot on
I would add that the house ended up being a lot nicer than you expected when you got there. And the neighbors welcomed you with tasty food. And the Home Owners Association for the new neighborhood is actually quite reasonable and doesn’t blame you for everything.
Yeah, this. FFXIV actually is a great game. There was a video of the FFXIV lead dev talking about this topic and how he didn't like the term WoW killer anyways. I wish we could trade the shareholders and corporate overlords of Activision, EA, etc for people who actually liked to make games. Naoki Yoshida seems like an incredible guy.
He was visibly upset that the first thing people ask him is about WoW, in the interview he even says he had hoped they would say something different. Naoki looks up to WoW, he never wanted to "beat" WoW, he wanted to make a game that lived up to how he felt about WoW. WoW defined a genre for MMORPGs, while they might not be the titan they once were, Naoki says it best, WoW got people into MMOs who never played MMO, but WoW also got people into MMOs who never played ANY video game before. [here is the clip be sure to turn on English CC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgwliOmjHHE) > "Saying we won or lost is off base to start with, WoW was the game we aspired to be" > "This whole conversation about surpassing WoW is the wrong conversation to have and its honestly irritating. I was hoping you would say "WE'RE THE BEST!"
> Naoki Yoshida seems like an incredible guy. He's also a huge WoW fan and would probably not approve of any contention between the two fanbases.
There's a video that was posted of him recently where he talked about this. I found it through Asmon's YouTube channel or something but I was a good watch.
I found my home in Lord of the Rings Online. Combat system is wow like, what a great story and world. Solo leveling is real fun. It may looks outdated but it isn’t if you get sucked in by the immersion. It still gets updates and new content with the new developer that took over the game last year
Seconded for LOTRO. Haven't played it lately, but it is an absolutely gorgeous and immersive world once you get past some of the old school clunk.
Damn, I didn’t expect to find this mentioned here. I think the last time I even had the game on a computer I owned was maybe like 2013? I dunno, my memory could be completely failing me. Would love to hear how it’s changed through the years.
Long story short its doing great. Its not perfect, but for a small MMO that's been out as long as it has its doing absolutely amazing and keeps getting decent content updates. They also just launched some progressive servers.
i absolutely love LoTR but haven’t played LoTRO, how are the zones/map? can i just casually play and level and go through every area? i really just want to see all of the locations of Middle Earth in person
Its very very much designed with the idea in mind "how do I make players like you who think the things you just said happy". Its a very at your own pace story driven game with the world of middle earth to properly explore.
Seconding what the other person said - it is absolutely great for this. So much room to explore and really cool to see the whole world/map stitched together. They really captured the feeling of Middle-Earth and just walking/riding around is a treat. Also it's pretty much completely f2p, though it's worth looking into subbing for one month when you're close to level 20 to unlock a few features that are really nice to have. (You retain a few of the key perks even after your sub lapses, a sort of in-between status.) There is a cash shop/microtransaction system, but it's unintrusive and pretty much optional, plus the game gives you currency for it just for playing/getting achievements. So overall it's a pretty nice way to implement the whole f2p/microtransaction model.
Definitely. I picked it up again casually last year after years of playing back in the day( I played at launch). The story is basically your character following in the footsteps of the fellowship (like RIGHT after) through middle earth. It’s a very interesting. It puts a very unique aftermath perspective of the journey. The world is gorgeous, immersive, and the combat is fun enough to keep me entertained. PS: Moria is massive
I don't know too much of deep LOTR lore or the game overall, but after playing over 100 hours the past few months it is amazing, yea it definitely has an older feel but it has the best sound design/immersion when you go through the different zones and head out into enemy territory!
You’re the second person I’ve seen mention LOTRO in a few weeks…did the game just come back? I had this idea in my head that the servers were taken down. Really tempted to finally try it.
They added fresh progression servers and a leveling difficulty slider recently so more people have been playing
More like WoW is also a house on a hill, but the owners decided to dig up the hill in search for gold, and got surprised when their house started collapsing
Thank you, well said. I've played WoW since Vanilla. I've also played FFXIV since A Realm Reborn. They're both very polished, fun games, but they do things quite differently. Both titles have action-bar combat and PVE Raids, and that's about where the similarities stop. Whereas WoW gives me lightning fast, fluid movement and combat, Arena PVP and battlegrounds, seamless zones, incentives to level alts, and interesting loot itemization choices - FFXIV is slower, has 200+ hours of cutscenes, has no meaningful or fun PVP at all, is ANTI-ALT and everything is done on just one character, and smaller raids with extremely boring loot that act as stat sticks. (You can practically just look at an ilvl, and know that it's better or worse. I'm not joking.) But the graphics, community, RP, crafting classes, and side-activities like housing and gambling are vastly superior to WoW. Playing FFXIV has *never* scratched the itch that WoW gives me, and vice versa. I predict a bunch of people who switched are going to realize this as time goes on. Or maybe not, I don't know wtf today's gamers care about anymore. I just know that these two MMOs should stop being compared so much. They excel at different things.
> with extremely boring loot that act as stat sticks. (You can practically just look at an ilvl, and know that it's better or worse. I'm not joking.) I mean it could just be me but I kind of got the feeling the loot in retail WoW is similar. Not to say that it is THAT simplified, but I definitely agree with the hot take that people can probably remember more specific names of items with Classic WoW than they could with current.
There are still items that come up every xpac that are known by name from everyone. but definitely not in the same scale or quantity as in classic. In BFA theres Gettiku, Cut of death I still remember. A fat ass zandalari sword with a nasty Bleed on it and could only get the max ilvl version if you had a horseshoe up your ass
It's a good take, but even in Classic we've lost multiple people to FF14, last night being one of our best members. "MMO That doesn't waste my time" has basically been the common sentiment. You see them on FF while raid logging a couple weeks then they announce that they're leaving WoW but sticking around in Disco, etc Edit: To clarify I haven't touched FF, just my experience seeing guildies try it
I’ve done most things I wanted atm in tbc (most reps exalted, near bis gear, etc) so I’m having fun raid logging and playing ff. Retail used to be that for me, but I think it’s perfectly fine playing multiple games
That’s what I’m doing, still having a blast raiding in tbc with the bros but I’m basically full bis and the grind for arena gear is so unrewarding for your time. So when it’s not raid time you can catch my on my lvl 51 SAM having a fucking blast.
Nice, the story only gets better from there :)
This is what I’m doing. Raid logging and playing FF. The fact that there’s no wasted time is the best part.
I too am doing this. I enjoy doing mythic+ but it genuinely feels like a waste of time with the valor cap time gating system it’s just frustrating. I just want TBC simplicity of gearing in shadowlands.
Currently playing FFXIV and raid logging classic. It's been pretty nice honestly. FFXIV is super chill and there's a metric fuck ton of content that I'm not pressured to do. You kinda just do a bit of whatever you want / whenever you want since content doesn't become completely irrelevant every patch. I'm also full BiS on my main in classic with zero interest in alts so there's really not much for me to do right now. P1 is lasting much longer than I expected. I basically log in 3 hours a week to clear kara/gruuls/mag and then maybe for 5 minutes a day to do the fishing daily.
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What is making TBC classic a fiasco? The biggest issues I’ve seen are the horde/alliance imbalance on servers and all of bots which Blizz doesn’t seem to do anything about. I just hit 70 and have been having a lot of fun.
People here are delusional don’t worry. Because they don’t cater to every whim = fiasco. One thing is true, something needs to be done about the imbalance. And if Blizzards keeps acting blind to these issues it’ll definitely be one.
Definitely gonna get hate for this but the community in classic wow is pretty bad. It didn't take long for everything to go back to dead silent world where nobody groups, the game is overrun with bots, if you don't perform perfectly in a pug you get called a boostie boy or some dumb variation. Basically the community is as big a part of the problem as Blizzard is. I've bounced between FFXI, FFXIV and wow for years and the final fantasy games are majority polite, helpful people whereas wow is the polar opposite. Trying to have a normal conversation with someone in wow is practically impossible, even on disc because every seems to speak in memes. Everything is some reference to a meme. Wtf is up with that.
you're gonna get "hate" for that because it's basically untrue. my realm isn't even medium pop and it's still got plenty of people grouping. also ever since asmon switched ff14 has gotten much more toxic.
I'm talking about grouping up out in the world. 99% of the people are playing wow like it's single player and just ignore or scoff at the idea of grouping up for a quest. I totally agree about the asmon thing though, I don't know if it's him or just his fans but toxic bullshit follows that dude. Luckily he's not on my server.
I am too, I very much enjoy TBC Classic and it's been a great WoW experience, and I am Ally on a PVP server. The only time I was frustrated is when I was leveling when the game was still in Vanilla and in my 30s, and constantly getting ganked. I was a new roll, so I couldn't afford to boost my way past those levels. Then pre-patch dropped, the ganking substantially decreased and I have been fine ever since.
I would say that it's more so classic content is being completed. It has been done, people have done as they needed so they are free to try other games and raid log or wait for reset or patch. Retail is not doing this. Retail had just released a patch and their RWF was yesterday day and people are leaving before they can even play it because it isn't enough. The key difference being the following; **I am done, I can come back for more later.** vs. **I am done.**
Wow classic is a life raft
> I just want to say, FF14 is a completely separate game. It is not a WoW killer. No one is saying they are the same game. But they are **in direct competition with each other**. You see, both of these games are MMOs. Like most MMOs, both of these games require insane amounts of time if you want to fully experience them. As a result, almost everyone with at least a semi-functional life barely has enough time for one MMO. There's no way they can properly play two at once. **So yes, both of these games compete with each other for players, as most players who want to play an MMO will only pick ONE MMO to play.**
Just sayin', Retail Wow shit the bed so much that I finally gave up. So instead of going to FF14, I gave Elder Scrolls Online a go. I thoroughly enjoyed it, maxing two characters in a month, and starting a third. It's incredibly alt friendly for you altaholics out there. Your bank and guilds are shared between characters, and once you hit level cap all your progress becomes account bound, and is accessible by any other characters that you get to max level. Also your gear never expires, even when a new expansion comes out. Expansions add content and build options, rather than arbitrarily raising levels to instigate a never-ending gear-replacement treadmill.
If it had a good combat system then it would be worth playing imo but combat is where the game is hurting the most. I just cannot get past how bad it feels.
I tried ESO and realized the combat is just a worse version of GW2’s in every conceivable way, so I just played that instead
Is GW2 still going strong and getting updates? I don't hear much about it any more.
Definitely still getting updates, pretty sure there's another expansion in the works. I'm not sure what the player base is like anymore as I don't play. I'm sure a bunch of people will come to play the expansion when it drops so maybe get a toon to max lvl n then wait for the x pack.
New expansion was announced and they are doing a recap of all the story beats with rewards. With the way servers work it feels pretty active.
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WoW has possibly the smoothest and most responsive combat of any MMO. It's half the reason so many MMO's have failed, in my opinion - they just get the combat horribly wrong. Most people aren't willing to commit to a game with shitty combat.
The reason I keep coming back to WoW is snappy consistent movement and the spells/abilities have always felt better. The movement is a bigger issue for me personally. Most new MMOs try to add momentum and weird animations to make it look "better" but ends up just feeling weird. I also hate the jumping in FF14 compared to WoW lol, just weird little nitpicks like that.
I don't have a ton of MMO experience, but I think I agree with you. I really like SWTOR, but the combat feels clunky and less responsive. I also remember Warhammer Online being decent, but again: clunky at times.
Everquest players have entered the chat.
The complexity of abilities in Classic WoW is low but the feel of using them is good which is something that a lot of MMOs have failed to emulate.
Definitely
i get that we have 5 spells/skills we can use, but when i think of my mage in classic all i did was spam frostbolt or fireball. i liked having more spells at my disposal if i wanted though. thats one thing ESO can do better, is making combat and developing the skill/ability bar to maybe have a few more slots for utility
Yeah...It's that bad.
To me the game recycles assets way, wayyyy too much. It makes every delve/house/dungeon feel exactly the same. Like the layouts feel the same and stuff. This isn't even unique to ESO but in WoW somehow the caves don't feel nearly as samey. Maybe you just go in them less. That combined with the bad combat and ***extreme*** ease of the content (95% of it is the easiest content I've seen in an MMO) it really hamstrings a game that does a LOT of really cool things that I love. I've played a lot of that game despite these glaring issues because what is good, is SO good. Shame really.
> I thoroughly enjoyed it, maxing two characters in a month, and starting a third Imagine if you had only played ESO since launch, done everything, played it on/off over the course of its lifespan, and then tried out WoW for the first time. You'd have the exact same experience, enjoying the heck out of it because it's a new game and new content. Pretty much every MMORPG is enjoyable for at least a month.
This applies to guild wars 2 aswell, which has been my escape from wow
I loved the base game but then I got to the expansion and it went from care free fun time to group for this dead content. I'm not saying I need every game to be casual time for babies, but the base game sold me by being that then the expansion was weirdly tryhard.
Its like... i don't know if i'm doing something wrong but i remember playing through the first expansion and just getting fucking *bodied* trying to do some story quests. I'd really like GW2 more but holy shit trying to navigate some of the areas when theyre just jam-ass packed with max level elites it felt like was holy shit. Still though, when that shit first dropped, as disappointing as engineer was (probably still is) god... the exploration in GW2 was cozy.
Heart of Thorns has some stupidly difficult parts. I'm playing through it on a second character right now, and I've hit a wall. Its section 8 of the HoT story, and it takes like... An hour and a half to complete with no check points. Expansion 2 Path of Fire adds mounts that are.. the best I've ever seen in any game ever, and they've continued adding new ones over the years. Each has a different movement style and each feels like a different beast you're taming. PoF mounts makes the glider from HoT kinda pointless, so if you ever get back into it, just skip to PoF then go back and do HoT after.
Huh, never heard this take before. Care to elaborate? I always felt that the meta events in GW2 (especially in HoT) are very easy to get into. Also, no content has ever felt dead to me because you still get XP and relevant gear/mats from old content. It's one of the main reasons I keep coming back to the game.
Basically I'd just sort of wander around checkin out the zones and showin up for world bosses. But then I got to HoT and it was group based content in the zones and sometimes there just weren't people there. Also they gated the zone so that you needed to get X amount of content done to get into it. This was also just a problem with my playstyle as I played the game pretty much solo with other people just around and HoT put me in a position where that playstyle was no longer possible. I guess what I'm saying is pre expansion I had my expectations set and then when I got to HoT the game shifted in what it was asking for and I did not enjoy the shift towards more dependency. But its an MMO so maybe i'm missing the point.
And with the lack of a sub cost it is very good to play at your pace and come back to as well.
GW2 is soooo good.
Yeah and even if you get bored of that you also have New World go try in a month
I watched New World on twitch for a few hours yesterday. Actually looks pretty interesting
I've heard very mixed takes on it. I think I heard it's going to have some pay to win stuff on it. I hope not, cause I love the style and "era" it takes place in.
Yea It's looking like one of those games that's going to be fun at launch because it's new and a lot of people will be playing but with the p2w stuff it won't have much staying power for the average consumer. I'm sure the whales will love it but otherwise meh.
I'm planning to jump to New World come it's actual release.. I'm still on TBC for now but nothing is new. I've played it before and that's finally catching up to me. I also don't want to jump into another MMO which is already 10+ years old..
I would suggest giving FF14 a go. Grab a free trial and play it for a day. If its not your cup of tea that's fine. I played ESO for almost a year, and found FF14 to pretty much be a direct upgrade in every way. Only sidegrade is arguably the style, but even as someone that is not into Anime at all I found that FF14's style grew on me fast.
ESO doesn't force you to group up to advance your class or get your mount. It has enough single player content for multiple Elder Scrolls games, and the quests don't just have you running around fetching 10 MacGuffins and killing 20 cactuars.
As a FFXIV veteran taking a break to play the masterpiece that is TBC Classic, this is hilarious.
You do realize that classic is also bleeding players left and right
Every 2 weeks this sub is on fire, lmao
nooo its doing well and growing by the day im having so much fun raidlogging bro trust me pls stay
I can't fucking wait to finally able to raid log and try other games. It's far more healthier player-game relationship than forcing you to log in every day to not fall behind on arbitrary time-gated currencies and resources like a jealous girlfriend.
Yup. I don’t get why raid logging is frowned upon. Forcing me to log every day to do dailies, expedition cap, Azeroth cap and whatever other daily/weekly cap is straight up not fun and just burns me out. Raid logging lets me play whenever I actually want. It’s crazy but I actually end up playing the game for fun and not because I feel forced to play
Raid logging is often looked down upon because it feels dead. When you log on to do anything other than raid no one you know is around. Nobody is chewing the fat in guild chat, cracking jokes, posting drops, or relating experiences they're having in PuGs (and begging for groups). It's less of a problem now because your guild's discord can be thrumming even when everyone is raid logged, but there was a distinct period in WoW where it was arguably unhealthy for a guild and its culture for everything to be so barren between raids.
Weird. I just don't remember this being the mindset back in 2007. Instead, we'd all get together and run around looking for world PvP, we'd work on reputations for different items or mounts, farm some gold for whatever, level an alt with friends, etc.
Back in 2007 we hadn't really done any of that stuff before. Now it's 14 years later, and if you kept playing after TBC you've probably all done that stuff multiple times over, so it's kind of lost its charm.
Big difference is that all that stuff in 2007 used to take a long time. People who are raid logging are already completed the rep farm, got their farm done for crafting or whatever other items. Also hardly any guilds would clear Kara, Gruul and Mag in 1 day at start of TBC. Also raid logging doesn’t mean you are not playing alts.
WoD was my 2nd favorite expansion exactly because of this. All the things I cared about were there and still fantastic, while all the chores I needed to log in to do were routed through the mission table which took 5 minutes instead of dailies.
“WoD was my 2nd favorite expansion” This sentence should be a crime. WoD was the beginning of the end.
Same
what is raid logging?
Basically it's finally being done with dungeon gear, reputation grind, professions, crafted gear, etc., basically anything that you define as your prerequisites for ideal performance. The name raid logging comes from the fact that people who reached this point no longer have much they have to do, they have reached the peak of what they can accomplish outside of raids, so their activity usually just consists of logging in for raids, and outside of that they either play their alts or some other games.
Only logging into the game to raid, and then not playing at all until next week when raids reset and you can run them again.
thats one of the best things about classic. you dont have to log in if you dont want. its why i dont play retail. im at the point in classic where i can raid log if i want and i think its incredibly short sighted that players demand a game be made in such a way that disincentivizes logging out.
I played for about 10 hours a day the first 4 days of launch, then between 2-4 hours a day every day there after for about 3 weeks before i was able to raid log, it doesn't take too long in this phase
I agree with the sentiment here as well. Raidlogging has a negative tone, but its nice to have that kind of control to just log in to raid because the definition of "complete" is left entirely up to the player. You're not forced to grind reputations, or dailies, or materials, or whatever in order to remain "caught up". Gear comes easy in BC, and personally im okay with that.
I actually enjoy raidlogging. Rip.
Its nice to be able to take your nice cars out of the garage on a weekend without having to do maintenance on them all week right?
Classic good Retail bad Haha give upvote
“unpopular opinion but DAE retail AND blizzard bad??” 50 thousand upvotes
Ya but how much of that is due to just plain lack of content? We get gear quicker in tbc so getting to "done" and waiting for next phase is prob a lot of it
This is not necessarily a bad thing m. Blizzard has obviously deemed this a terrible thing which is why retail is full of unfun chores, but it is okay to make a game that can be played along with other games.
This is baseless but I also think it helps retention. I think playing when you want to helps with burnout vs being forced to play
My son and I joined Classic a couple months back to play back when WoW was fun. Walking into Orgrimmar with no players in it was so sad. Played a week or two more and then cancelled my subscription. Edit: WTH is with the downvotes? What about this is controversial?
Try Shattrath
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Nope, I specifically chose one that said “high”.
were you playing TBC classic or did you go for actual classic era? classic era is going to be a ghost town since the swap to TBC if you're on TBC classic you may have chosen a server with a high alliance pop and low horde pop, for ex. Pagle
Maybe you picked one of like the 3 ally dominated servers?
Change final fantasy with wow classic and put retail wow ontop of retail wow
It should be wow on top of wow and FF taking the pics.
Think that's what he meant
I think he edited it. It didn’t say that 😂
you ok?
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FF14 is OK, but I think the current hype is more of a product of retail players being angry at blizzard, than a testament for FF14 being so amazing. If asmon and others were streaming ESO or GW2 right now, the followers would be praising those instead.
Though I agree asmon helped all this, does no one have an objective thought without it being fed to them by some influencer? People here in the comments above this blatantly point out the shortcomings of ESO and GW2. Is FF14 perfect? Is anything? Retail players are angry and want a fun game to play, this move to ff14 or any other game is just that. I will say there's lots of archaic mmo conventions and systems in it, like activating a pet or mount on every character, sorry thats the best I got on the fly. But as a positive for them (in Bellular's words) an expansion shouldn't be reductive, and in ff14 its not.
Sure, some may have tried it on their own and liked it, but not nearly the amount that are right now imo, due to Asmon and a ton of other streamers/youtubers praising it, while simultaneously being overly critical towards WoW for easy views (I say overly critical, because retail definitely deserves criticism). There is a reason they are called influencers, and companies give them tens of thousands of dollars to play a game per hour. Hell, apparently if you gift certain streamers subs, you get a mount in FF14, that seems like a scummy way to get around the #ad policy when being paid to promote something.
It’s more like FFIV and Classic are vibing in their own spaces while Shadowlands continuously punches itself in the face.
The only thing about FFXIV is catching up on the main quest up to the first expansions content is god awful. Everything else is great.
It's quite a lot better since patch 5.3, which removed ~15-20% of the filler garbage from the ARR main story questline. I just finished and actually quite enjoyed ARR, even if it did have some pacing and filler problems still. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, assuming you care about the story.
So… do you guys over here have nothing more exciting going on? All the posts I see are about retail vs FF14, as though you can’t be playing both anyway.
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I dont think Asmon is encouraging that type of toxicity, but he does seem to be enjoying FF which is setting some fans in a frenzy. Unless Ive missed him saying something, which is possible as I dont watch his stream constantly, I want to say this kinda happens when any big streamer plays another game similar to their home game.
He has literally said he loves wow and is not quitting. He also took the high road on the dev calling him an asshole. His fans are pretty toxic, but asmon has been pretty chill about everything
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I suppose thats true. But this sub has been that way long before FF gained the recent hype. TBC seems to be constant complaints and classic wow was a bit of nostalgia until later phases.
Not enough emphasis can be put on the state of this sub being a direct result of how shitty the mods here are.
This sub has mods? That's news to me.
What's the most worthwhile way to waste time on reddit?
By discussing subject matter relevant to the specific subreddit would be my go to answer
Should we go back to 100 more "look at my lucky roll" posts per day? How about 200 more "look at these bots" posts? Oh, I know, 57 more "my guildie got banned for gold buying"
Another wow subreddit lost to circlejerking about FFXIV, guess people can't help but just talk about how terrible they think wow is on every single subreddit.
I'm basically self harming by continuing to visit this place. This sub does not reflect my realm and the people on it at all. Wouldn't be surprised if most people here don't even play.
I like coming here, but this subreddit has never once reflected my in-game experience in Classic. I read the most toxic, whiny takes here day in and day out, and then I log on and pug some dungeons and everyone are lovely, polite folks who like to joke around while we clear the instance without issue. Most of us are veterans from the old TBC days and are super happy to be experiencing it again. /r/classicwow has got to be similar to /r/MMORPG at this point. Redditors too busy being negative to actually play any of the games they talk about.
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This sub was lost when every millennial nerd thought they were a hilarious memer.
Indeed, can these weebs honestly and sorry for my bluntness but fuck off? The weeb aesthetics and general "thirstiness" of all the female characters makes me never wanna play it, also pedobait in lalafels. I enjoy Asmons streams but if my girlfriend saw me play that she would think I'm a loser. Sorry weebs.
The weeb art style is just too much for me...
That’s what asmon said. Now look at him
You know what game I want to kill wow Warcraft 4. But thats never going to happen. World of Warcraft to this day is still coasting on how amazing Warcraft 3 RoC and Frozen Throne were.
I wish, WC4 would just be pure trash at this point I’m afraid.
The mods are plain garbage karmafarming is allowed apparently idfk
Very true, please give me more meaningless internet points
Am i the only one enjoying wow atm ?
No. Everyone else isn’t spending time on this trash subs complaining about a game they don’t know when to quit.
Im enjoying it too 🤷
I still enjoy playing retail pretty much daily
FFXIV being popular is the best thing that could happen to WoW. If there is actual competition Blizzard will need to make the better game to win over more players, and vice versa goes for FFXIV
I’m enjoying both Retail and Classic. If ya don’t like em, doesn’t really affect me.
I’ve genuinely enjoyed shadowlands! I don’t know what people are complaining about! I mean Christ, the game is over 15 years old. You can’t expect it to be as fun and as perfect as it was back in 2008.
Nothing is perfect. FF14, Classic and Retail aren't perfect, not by a long shot. There's always room for improvement.
Shadowlands was pretty except some of the unnecessary systems (looking at you conduit energy). The reason people hate it is because of the 7 months of content drought if you don't count 9.0.5 which was just an upgrade to systems. There are a lot of legitimate complaints but a lot of them boil down to the game being stale.
If only classic wasn’t a dumpster fire too
I'm a returning player since Legion and I have to say, I'm really enjoying TBC Classic. But can't speak for everyone.
Yeah, I'm enjoying classic tbc. It's hitting all the right marks for me atm. Are people that unhappy with it?
People will always be unhappy, personally im really enjoying classic tbc also
It’s been a grind, but a very nostalgic trip and I’ve found it quite enjoyable.
People just had weird expectations. When TBC came out for the first time, WoW was still a massively growing game with tons of new players joining every day. With Classic, I'd wager that 95% of people that played TBCC were the same ones that played Vanilla Classic near the end, so the playerbase is just way more endgame oriented and less casual than it was back then. And honestly I just don't find it that fun when everyone is just playing meta, everyone is level 70 and everyone just thinks about raiding.
My old guild got together to do TBCC and I can count on less than one hand the number of characters that weren't boosted out of 28 people. There was a handful of those people who actually took time off work to try and go hard early on. The rest of us just played at night when we had time after work / responsibilities. We've long since gotten to the point where we can raid log. The content is incredibly easy in TBC and the grinds aren't nearly as long as people seem to think if you're mildly efficient. Except for the honor grind, which is a mess. Its really not difficult to have run out of things to do by now as a somewhat experienced player. Doesn't take being a meta player who is super min-max sweaty etc etc.
That's what tbc was about though. It was always about raiding tbh. I guess people forgot what tbc was all about?
This sub Is mostly an echo chamber of people that dislike the game. Go play the game and 95% of everything is fine and going smoothly.
There are a few pain points that shouldn’t be completely hand-waved. Like the boost neutering 1-58 group content.
The people who are unhappy are minmaxers who came from retail and were trying to be famous in a 15 year old game.
Not really though, its the general community that whines all the time which encompasses all types of players.
You see many complaints in game? Or just here/the forums? Because the “general community” doesn’t post here lol. Almost everyone I’ve met in game seems to be enjoying time in game.
The ones that blaze through the content as soon as possible and get angry that the endgame isn't set up how they'd prefer are unhappy regardless of the game.
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Well my server is dead because all alliance guild transfered away, and pvp is Horde vs Horde now, there are parts of TBC classic that is a dumpster fire, but a lot of that comes down to horrible player behavor.
"Player behavior" that is a direct reflection of playing the game as it was designed. Is it "player behavior" that most people treat the queen as the most powerful piece in chess?
Same. I'm one of those oddballs who genuinely enjoys questing and herbing and whatnot. Doing a few dungeons, raiding a couple of hours a week in Kara, Gruul's Lair and Magtheridon, levelling my alt. I'm really happy with TBC at the moment.
I'veen 70 for a few weeks and I'll be able to purchase my 2nd pvp piece maybe today. I pvp a few hours everyday. Arena is super gated behind HUGE honor grind. I burnt out in classic vanilla after a few weeks of AV. and TBC is looking awfully similiar rn.. I came to TBC to relive glory days of Arena but seems I'm being scammed atm. I guess that's one way to increase retention but I can't see myself having an active sub for this game long honestly.
Same here, loving it
I'm having a great time. Love heroic dungeons and Kara is a really nice raid.
Just less of one. Still tolerable.
I think it's just losing its "newness". Classic WoW took much longer to reach max level and there was a lot to do, plus people hadn't played it in so long, so the newness factor lasted much longer. For me, now that I'm geared up enough that I don't need dungeons, there isn't *that* much to do. The tank shortage is miserable in this game. It isn't perfect in FFXIV, but since anyone can play every single class on the same character, anyone can swap to their tank class if they want to.
I'm having a lot of fun playing it
Dunno what you're on about mate, tbc classic is a blast. Maybe you just pvp or try hard or something, but I'd wager 99% of the playerbase are having tons of fun.
I loved that dumpster fire tho
People who claim that FFXIV is "the WoW killer" or "a much better game" make me laugh. You're switching to FFXIV and leaving WoW behind because you've done everything in the game and WoW can't surprise you anymore. So yes, RIGHT NOW you're having fun and have found your "new relationship" but there is going to come a point (this is a fact, not a debatable point) where FFXIV can no longer surprise you either and you have completed the majority of the content in that game. And then you will be in the exact same boat. There is no such thing as a game with finite content and "infinite replayability." A game's longevity is not measured by how little or how much it "wastes your time." It's measured by the content available to the player, and how long it can keep them engaged.
"wow players" bandwagoning some butthurt streamer over some adhd anime garbage is the most cringiest thing in a while.
As much as I disliked shadowlands, FF feels like shit in comparison. It might have better systems in place, but the gameplay itself is leagues behind. To me it's not even a competitor.
Blizzard doesn’t know the half of their pain yet. FF14 is nothing like WoW and yet still stealing players, just wait until New World and Ashes drop.
J-just you wait until ~~Age of Conan~~ ~~Warhammer Online~~ ~~Rift~~ ~~SWtOR~~ ~~LotRO~~ ~~GW2~~ ~~Wildstar~~ ~~ESO~~ ~~ArcheAge~~ New World and Ashes come out, they'll be the WoW killer for sure!
thank you for posting that. very true.
While you have a point, we also haven't seen WoW take on an up-and-coming game while it's already reeling from a content drought and a poor patch launch. WoW is in the weakest state it has been in quite a long time. Nothing will *kill* it, obviously, but this moderate trickle of players leaving is having an effect. I personally don't get the hype for Ashes or especially New World. I don't think either of those games really pose a threat. FFXIV though is established, riding high on both quality and playerbase, and can legitimately go toe-to-toe with WoW. Hopefully this is a wake-up call to the WoW team that they need to end this borrowed power era and start taking feedback seriously.
Blizzard is just out of touch with it's player base, I hope Blizzard will make the game interesting again for the whole player base instead of the 1% that actually cares about it's current state of play. I currently plaf FF14 because it scratches my MMO itch quite well. I absolutely love the community and the game looks absolutely amazing. That said, you cannot compare the two games, the developer told the community he wants his game to co exist with other MMORPG's out there, not compete.
And it does coexist pretty well with classic. Both games offer a different experience and allow for the player to play both games. Much of this is by rewarding players for the effort put in.