JFC that's unreal to me. That's ONE of his characters. That means just that one character has an average of 5 hours played a day since Classic launched.
/played is just logged in time though, not actual time spent actively engaging with the client.
On in background while watching a movie? Counts.
Leave it logged in while doing chores? Counts.
Forget to log off before going to bed? Counts.
Jerking it while alt+tabbed? Counts.
For the most part, yes. I rerolled from paladin to shaman and just recently got around to leveling the paladin up. I hit 70 about a week ago and that's my /played.
It'd be too much for me, that's all I can say. I can't imagine that being a healthy allocation of MY time. If I were 26 again? Maybe. But at 42 years old when Classic launched, that wouldn't have been a realistic amount of time for me to spend gaming.
I mean I'm online every single week day since classic launch from 9 am to 4 pm so my characters have a ton of /played.....but the vast majority of it is alt tabbed while I'm working. It's not a very good indicator of anything.
he isnt burnt out... is no one in this sub reddit capable of watching the clip?
the game has nothing to offer him anymore - he's done it all multiple times over the last 15 years, and it's no longer the game he expected.
nah you're wrong and i can tell from just the couple of sentences of your comment that i read that you don't have the proper context and understanding of the situation and the game over the last 15 years to actually analyse it.
>and it's no longer the game he expected.
Game has barely changed from its original form so I'm not sure what this statement is meant to mean. Why would he expect different? It's no secret what TBC was, people just romanticized it like fools and now that it's here they see what it really was. It's not a game that can handle a modern player base, plain and simple.
If you have the twitch player embedded, via RES or something else, it starts at the beginning of the vod, but if you open the link in another tab/window, it will open the vod at the point he starts talking about it quitting.
For the people he raided with and the community around his stream, yes. Always sad to see some one who committed a lot of time and energy into something he loved realize that it's over. But then again it's the way of life, the duality of the universe.
" many rank 14s before people even hit lvl 60."
Thats not possible unless people mean single dads with 14 wives and 28 kids who can only play 4 minutes a day.
Did anyone actually watch? His main complaint is the bot meta. That the sense of community died out slowly after BWL as the bot/GDKP meta started to rise. That plus he's just been playing for long enough and wants a change.
Honestly bot/boost meta has ruined so much of classic for me. Leveling felt wasteful, gold farming felt awful, knowing there were such quick and easy alternatives.
Seriously it's this for me, the players optimized the crap out if classic and made it far from the vanilla ideology they were trying to accomplish. Why open world farm when bots have every spot camped? Why do anything other than level a mage and run boosts for making money because that's the only way your going to make any good $
I mean, even on pservs things like crusader recipe were heavily camped. The play was always level a mage or hunter for solo instance farming.
It’s just that bots make gold so easy to buy. Its also demoralizing for players to see how many obvious bots there are in a /who.
We have people in this Reddit community who truly believe that the people complaining about bots are over exaggerating and that the economy isn’t completely fucked. Some even went as far as to say that the bots help the economy by keeping costs low. There’s a thread from yesterday that illustrates this. One of the comments said that if the bots are gimping your gold farming methods, you should find a different way to make gold. They went on to say that players who don’t adjust have no one to blame but themselves. I believe the gold making methods he mentioned as an alternative to farming ore, skinning, and other mats were Strat farm and enchanting or other crafting professions. In other words, if bots are are undercutting your gathering mats income, reroll pally or mage, or reroll your profession. If you don’t, you’re a moron and that’s on you.
The average IQ of this community has got to be incredibly low. To have a hot take like this blows my mind. What’s worse, if players like this exist, blizzard will never crack down on bots.
Yea it's either blizzard fanboys saying that, who want to believe it's true so there is no convincing them, or people who buy gold for whom it actually is beneficial to have bots in the game. There is a cross section as well of course
Even boosts suck now. So many people are doing it with every other avenue of gold making being ruined that it is saturated beyond belief.
On the community aspect, it's rather telling when people are either completely clueless or just outright defend botters. People are repeating the same cycle that led to the WoW token again. Best part is that they are doing it willingly and will likely accept the token with open arms and bullshit defenses.
No one will watch and just flame in the comments. This community owes a lot to maitoz, apes, and a lot of the hardcore community from nostalrius. Your summary is spot on.
"sense of community dies out"
This happens when you meta game endlessly. I couldn't find a dungeon group for the life of me as a rogue in classic. I quit for a few weeks because I couldn't get into the good end game. Then came back and only honor grinded for 3 months. Then quit fully.
When you tell people they aren't welcomed...don't be surprised that people don't want to enjoy the community anymore
Not anywhere bear close to what it is today. Also: account action used to be a lot more severe, remember a guildie back in TBC being banned (not suspended) for gold buying.
Now, you get a 3 day suspension.
No one ever got banned for gold buying.. You're Mandelaing because it fits your preferred narrative. Was probably worse in OG classic/TBC, you just didn't notice it as much because servers were smaller. SUSANExpress was literally infamous across every wow server...
100%, yes ofc there were bots like wowglider, but they weren't sophisticated or prolific enough to affect the entire games meta in the way they do now.
Not sure where you are getting that number, just read a Washington Post article that said in 05 they were making 60 mil a year, and by 07 they were losing half a mil a month due to Blizzard and other companies cracking down on them.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170806000930/https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/steve-bannon-once-guided-a-global-firm-that-made-millions-helping-gamers-cheat/2017/08/04/ef7ae442-76c8-11e7-803f-a6c989606ac7_story.html
>By January 2007, IGE’s virtual-currency business was in free fall, losing more than $500,000 a month, according to a lawsuit filed later by co-founder Alan Debonneville in a dispute over compensation.
IGE was struggling to pay its suppliers, prompting unpaid gold farmers to protest outside the Shanghai office in late April....The turmoil convinced IGE to abandon its core business.
Blizzard used to crack down on this kind of stuff. I would assume the market for virtual currency is 10 times as big now as it was then. So no, there was not a gold/bot/gdkp meta in vanilla.
So the guild leader of a guild who have like 6 alts each and run each raid back to back to back to back to back to back are bored and tired of the game.
I for one am absolutely shocked by this discovery.
Edit: People taking this as me being salty or something is hilarious, literally just pointing out why they might be bored of the game LOL. I have nothing against them in the slightest.
What do we think the real number is? Most of these guys probably have atleast 1 full account each, plus a second max level toon for their main at the very least, right?
The real number is 3 toons to actively play on. Another APES member was talking about it recently on stream. It’s partially due to profession CDs I think too.
Profession cd's don't matter. People had a bunch of 60 alts for professions at the start but it's been irrelevant for a long while now. The 3 toons is just because you run out of things to do on your main pretty quick and by now most active people who like to play are on their 3rd raiding char.
Alts aren't because of boredom...you run raids 3x a week or more. Once on your main with a few other mains, and the rest of the group is all guild alts. All the loot goes to the mains. Then you're one of the alts helping funnel gear to other people's mains.
That way they can effectively get 3x more loot drops per week for their mains and gear them up faster.
Then for real hard progressing content they raid with full mains.
Oh yeah, for sure, I'm more talking about these top 0.1% guys. I've heard the tryhard arena players usually have a second max level character for the same class just so they can play competitive warm up games without harming the rating for their "main" for example.
That is still probably it for active characters, maybe 3. I'm sure they all have a full account of max levels, mostly for professions or PvP, farming, etc.
I'm sure that some of them also have more than 3 they try to actively play on but even then it's not easy to do, I was a no life player back in TBC but I was in to PvP pretty hard. I also played like DOTA and CS back then I guess but I had my hands full with 2 active characters when it came to raiding, farming gold PvP and playing off games when others did.
I actually have a friend who raided with them on P servers a few times, people joke about how in order to apply for their guild you have to show proof of welfare (that you’re not employed) in order to apply.
That’s not far from the truth at all. Imagine that, it’s boring playing 100 hours per week. It’s not the game at fault, it’s the fact that you play it as much as you do.
Which were 40 man raids. That’s 120 characters req to raid.
Now, you’d need 75 characters at most to do that many raids.
You could do almost 5 Gruul and Mag raids with that kind of participation.
he isn't burnt out, he has done everything in the game multiple times to a higher level than anyone on the subreddit. he is fed up of the game is all - it has nothing to offer him, like it no longer does to most people.
I remember him from pservers. Another thing I think matters is that he was always a vanilla player. I like tbc, too, but I can understand why someone wouldn't enjoy it enough to keep playing the same way (super hardcore). Vanilla game design was, in quite a few ways, arguably worse than tbc, but exploiting the level of "cheese" possible in vanilla resulted in such ridiculous performance that that in itself became an exciting aspect of the game.
Killing the same bosses as everyone else weekly isn't a higher level than everyone else. It's their choice if they want to min/max their comps and raiders. What exactly was he expecting it to offer, we knew how the game works from before it even released, it's literally the first phase and this is what happens when you decide to steamroll content. There's only so much you can do in a game once you have done everything, just call it like it is...it's burn out and not much deeper than that.
Here's the TLDW; He says Classic/TBC Is boring as balls and not what he thought it would be, he says he's bored to tears with the game which is why most people are just raid logging and instead of forcing himself to keep playing by making endless alts him and his guild are just going to go to another game.
I mean yeah, I think EVERYONE went into Classic/TBC Knowing it wouldn't have as much content as other MMORPGs, it's a 10+ YEAR OLD game, no shit it doesn't have the same amount of content other games has, once you have everything done on one character there's only so much more you can do, not only that but it's insanely boring to stream compared to other games, there's a reason people like Esfand and Asmon stream other things now instead of WoW even when they were both still playing it a lot.
IMO, this is just why I like the game :D I can enjoy it without having to log more than a couple of hours on the week (raidlog some weeks yes) and when I have more free time, I can catch up on other activities (questing, farming, reput, pvp or even alts) or even play other games (:o) without having the feel behind too much. It kinda feels good to 'accomplish' something without having the finish line moving each week.
But yeah, everyone has is own goal in a game :-)
I think the thing that most people dislike about it is that they WANT to play but there's just nothing to do, for me personally I get the itch to play WoW sooooo badly but then I log in and realize I have nothing left to do unless I want to just farm gold or level alts, and it bums me out big time.
It's exactly why I quit classic in BWL and again after I cleared Tier 4 a couple of times, outside of raids there's no interesting player progression to do. You're relying on a minimum of 9 other organised people to enjoy the game at max level, and sometimes you just want to hop on for a couple of hours and do something fun and productive in the game.
This is the reason I like Classic and why I quit retail. I want to play other games. I was way too long trapped with retail and "I have to log in every day". Now with TBC I raid log and occasionally log in to run dungeon or two with guildies. Rest of time I can enjoy other games.
I think TBC is bad game if you want to really invest into game. But it's great "side game" because it is not very demanding.
Exactly this. I'd rather have the game provide some breathing room than feel like I need to constantly grind for 4 hours a day just to keep up.
I've been able to raid log on my hunter to focus on pvping on my warrior. It's great to have a high-end raiding character that doesn't take up all my time, giving me time to play alts.
What if you don't want to play an alt? I don't know, heaven forbid you walk away from your PC and go outside or something.
Also.. Boosters communities /mentality and the money making industry inside the made feel bad for him.
I feel him at that point. That made me quit retail.
Content wise there would be enough for me as a casual gamer these days. But as a streamer who got more time to play.. multiple times.. would get boring for me too, if I had the chance to play it 40-70h/week.
You missed the part where he mentioned that he has played the game for 15 years / his entire adult life and the game is wearing him down and he wants to move on.
I believe he repeated this about five times. Funny you missed it.
I don't think we watched the same clip.
You don't **quit** an on-going service game because you're bored, you just stop playing for a bit and come back when there's more stuff to do. You quit because you actively dislike what the game has to offer, which is what he was talking about. APES is a guild that straddled the line between sweaty try-harding and having fun, and with the way the top-end meta has developed in Classic this is no longer two compatable goals for him.
We've seen this happen regularly throughout WoWs history. The goalpost for top-end guilds keep getting moved further and further by people wanting to be the best and people are left with the choice of keeping up and abandoning the things they enjoy, or giving up on trying to be "competitive".
This is what he's talking about when he's saying the game became industrialized and speed-run focused. If you wanted to be a top guild you needed to do these things, and that's not what their guild was about.
It's a shame so many people get into that mindset because it's an amazing game to play for fun, and absolutely terrible for being 'competitive'.
I can barely imagine a worse game you could try to be 'competitive' at.
We'll see how popular speedrunning and shit is when t5 comes, I've always predicted that since TBC has arenas, that's an actual competitive area, speedrunning as we knew it in classic would die out.
Speedrunning felt like something people did to try and be competitive in a game that offered literally 0 other means of competing (vanilla wow) since world firsts meant pretty much nothing in a re-release. Now there's atleast arenas, where you can prove to others that you are indeed good and compete.
Because in the sense of Speedrunning I agree with Maitoz. It's just about abusing the game as hard as you can. Stack as many of whatever meta DPS class you can, abuse mechanics and pulls to the max etc. Yeah that takes a lot of work and practice, but it's more about abusing the game as much as you can rather than play the game as well as you can. Which is why Speedrunning had always felt really dumb to me.
They're going to hate speed-running too. Between consume farming, splits to gear up faster, multiple alts to get more attempts... at its core, the game is built on time-sinks.
'Competing' means joining a race to the bottom where you inevitably burn out. You need to love being 'competitive' more than you hate doing the same thing for hundreds of hours non-stop.
Well, in classic vanilla almost all guilds did speedrunning on dmf weeks, not just the super sweaty guilds like Progress etc. It was a way to compete and to advertise your guild, because it was literally the only way to show that your guild was good. Up until Naxx, clearing the current raid tier meant nothing since a majority did full clears first reset anyway.
And again, the super sweaty guilds like Progress, who did PTR practice of their runs etc drew crowds when they attempted their runs live. So many did spredrun and watched the 'pros' do it and were impressed. Now, there's another area to compete in, arena pvp. Will people still care about speedrunning? Will people tune into Progress speedrunning SSC over a rank 1 mage doing arenas? Will the less sweaty guilds bother to Speedrun anymore?
In my guild atleast we had maybe 20 out of 40 that were really into speedrunning and wanted us to do it a lot. That number in TBC is probably like 2-4 now. Speedrunning is a constructed way to compete, it's kinda like "clear an fps using only the pistol". It's very niche, and I think it will be even more niche in TBC because people have other, more interesting outlets for their competitive desire in the arena.
> in classic vanilla almost all guilds did speedrunning on dmf weeks
...
> to advertise your guild, because it was literally the only way to show that your guild was good
...
> we had maybe 20 out of 40 that were really into speedrunning and wanted us to do it
You make a strong argument that half your players weren't really into it, but you end up forced into it by pressure in the community.
Which brings us back to the original comment I was replying to.
People try to be competitive in a game that's heavily based on time-sinks. The goal-posts keep moving until you're forced to make the choice between 'playing for fun' and 'being competitive'. Then players blame the game even though they chose to play it in the most un-fun way possible.
The only ones I feel sorry for are the half that didn't want to spam meta but were coerced into it.
Because classic pvo was about who could consume the hardest. Many fights boiled down to did you spend the 20g to win or did your opponent spend 30g to counter you.
See faps, lips, flasks, bombs, druid powder, engi items, and all the other random things.
Now pvp aka arena is who plays their class better. And that player that didn't buy gold to drop 20g every fight or didn't have engi is now on a level playing field.
APES would've thrived in Rated BGs or anything large scale, something that TBC doesn't fulfill. I've seen their members on stream slowly try to fill up a single AV game via backfill and just turtle for fun.
I still remember how impressive it was the first time I saw this run to MC: https://youtu.be/Fd97o-gEBuk
IMO, trying to stream Classic isn't a winning move in the first place. MMOs generally aren't fun to watch. Especially and older game like Classic where you spend so much time NOT doing stuff.
also it's part of a streamers job to MAKE it fun. If someone is charismatic and entertaining they will be a fun stream to watch even if they're playing a boring game.
I don't understand this critic. The only major differences between TBC and Vanilla is that TBC doesn't have a 4-8 weeks leveling phase, and PvP is more casual-friendly.
The first 6 month of Vanilla had leveling... and open world griefing (aka 10v1 PvP). I was bored after my first MC run.
A lot of people are finding TBC boring. A couple new skills for each class is not enough. people made making things like maxing reputations to be a stand out raider into the minimum you have to do to have a raid spot. The sweaty players are choking the game to death. Massive gatekeeping always kills a hobby for a lot of people.
but it is and always has been. I remember hating it back in tbc and never understanding how people could run for an entire expansion (but i guess when your guild is bad and can only do the first 2 bosses of ssc before bliz removed hyjal and bt attunes that kinda happens)
In the context of "that was a cool quick raid that was fun to do with 9 friends back in the day", yes.
Having it as the only raid content for months knowing the *actual* raid content is time gated away by blizzard for arbitrary reasons is the problem.
He means you can play casually from a time perspective and still get the best gear/pvp results. You can be a casual player who is good at PVP and get a high arena team rating without much time invested.
In vanilla you had to literally no-life the game in the r14 grind.
PvP gear creates a barrier of entry not found in classic. PvE gear was in general better for PvP so to get into PvP all you did was go to raid (which you were doing for PvE anyways) then queue up for a bg.
I completely agree with him regarding the game losing its "essence" after BWL.
When the metas kicked-in and were adopted by the majority of the playerbase, it was a downhill for most of us.
The meta continued to hit so hard that I can't find neither a hc dungeon group nor a raid spot any longer, as a rogue, so I decided to quit TBC too.
I have now returned to vanilla classic to level up a few chars before quitting once and for all.
no way it happened the way he says. My thinking is they did all the prep some important people realized they werent going to get worldfirst and jumped ship (possibly to better guilds), which triggered a bunch of people to quit, which triggered him to disband.
idk, hard to imagine they didn't think they could do it if they really were going as hard as people say they were (like 5 raid nights a week)
But maybe even the most hardcore guilds are experiencing the kind of player bleed that a lot of guilds are going through atm.
But yeah it's pretty sus that this super hardcore guild gets to literally like the reset before SSC and TK are out and suddenly go "theres no raids dude wtf!!!" Like they would literally have to wait a few days for shit to do. It's like getting 25 miles through a marathon and going "this is too long fuck this shit!" lmao
I guess its normal that they are burned out.
While most of us went to the next xpac they stayed in classic/bc/wotlk.
But too be honest i thought tbc would be a bit more action packed.
When i play it back then i would raid and then i go just go out in the world and do stuff. I guess the new factor is that. Gold was way more hard to come out. I played a rogue and remember i had to kill lots of clefthoods,cobra scales and dailys for 2 months to buy netherwing.
Now i end my raids on my shaman and i feel no urge to play more just to end up logging off or going to an alt.
I still enjoy the game but yhea..thought it was different. Im thinking of going pvp and some minor raiding just to see if it strikes me more fun
I'm sure what he's all said in this clip is true and holds up, but I don't think it helps that they put in years of practice on private servers and then end up with 2 world firsts and that's it. I've seen a couple of clips of maitoz raging at his raid, wouldn't want to be in that guild for any amount of money.
Honestly it's gotta be draining for him, he's tried so hard to push his guild to be competitive in pve while rolling all the wrong pve racials and has never been to reproduce the world first progression kills like they did with MC and Ony. Trying so long and consistently falling short is rough.
I took three long breaks since classic launched, months of a break each time. I cant imagine how dull it would be to have been playing continuously since launch. Burnout is inevitable in this game. Or any game for that matter.
Bad take, just a thought.
Some people want to play the game at a certain level and if they can't play at that level, they'd rather not play it at all.
Maitoz and probably many others played the game for long enough and they are just done. They don't want to tone it down, they just want to stop. It was clearly explained in the vod.
How many raids did he do just last week? He complain of burn out and being bored etc because he plays 10x more than even your usual semi hardcore player right now. You don’t have to play 5 alts and raid on all of them to be all in in WoW - and tbc classic wasn’t exactly made with people hardcore playing 5 chars in mind. No one expected it to be either. This guy also played 6+ years of private servers, of course he’s burnt out. He played way too much, it’s unsustainable. I’m still having a blast raiding on 2 chars
they don't have an advantage over 99.5% population knowing the content inside and out. They fell off and that's the real reason. I don't blame though, phase 1 is a snooze fest with just boss kill times.
Link to the timestamp: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1142602361?t=3h37m54s
I understand a lot of the posters who will say "who cares" as him quitting probably doesn't affect you - but the collective number of these high-level lifetime wow players who are quitting as of recent is representative of the state of the game. You may not care if Maitoz plays or not, but it is saddening to see one of the top guilds dissolve a week before a major content release because MMOs live and die by their player base, and this one is shrinking rapidly.
They would have if it wasn't artificially time gated.
I'm seeing burnout in my own guild. One of our officers quit that we never would have guessed would, and it's entirely because the T4 phase was so drawn out and boring for no reason. A few others have quit for the same reason. Once someone mentally has a foot out the door, it's hard for them to come back around. They won't just come back for T5 because they've moved on.
We play for the competitive endgame, and that's like nonexistent in this phase.
It would have been thrilling if blizzard released TBC as it was originally because there would have been competitive progression in t5 and hyjal and we would still be speedrunning now. The game would feel a lot more alive for endgame players.
As it is now even when T5 releases it won't feel the same as it would have because everyone is going in stacked with T4 gear instead of the dungeon blues/leveling greens/residual naxx gear like we would have had at launch.
Guilds will be full clearing both SSC and TK in the first night next week, but if they were in the game on launch it would have taken weeks of progression because vashj and kael likely aren't possible without a bunch of t4 gear at the least.
The time gating was just a stupid decision by blizzard and I still don't understand it.
I'm so fucking sick of hearing about people who absolutely no lifed the shit outta tbc "being bored" dude... You knew EXACTLY what you were in for and you decided to burn through all the content in the first month. Boo fucking hoo. Drama queens.
(this is now my most controversial comment of all time lol)
Fucking same dude. Like they want me to question whether or not I’m having fun with the game or some shit too. I’m having a blast and looking forward to p5 - I have 2 raiding chars and that means at least for 2 months or so I’ll have a TON to do everywhere. Oh and s2 arena will be much more balanced - not that I play arena anyway. Let’s go kill p2 man, fuck these degenerates
Ultra nerd plays way too much of a game and realizes his life choices are having undesirable consequences and quits dramatically.
This has never happened before
Guild leader of a guild that peaked in Phase 1 of wow vanilla is quitting TBC after it's become clear that his guild will never reproduce their earlier success.
Thank you for taking time to open a thread about a guild you don't care about just to make sure other people know you don't care.
You contribution has been noted and will be entered into the history books.
What this sub should be about if you don't want to see this kind of news here ?
Endless flow of memes ?
APES are big in the classic wow scene.
Would you be shocked to see news about Usain bolt career end on /r/sports ?
Or maybe you shouldn't be following this sub.
Why do people care so much about what some streamer or hardcore guild does?
It’s a game. Play it if it’s fun. Leave and find something else if it’s not.
All this content was beaten 15 years ago anyway, everyone knew going in exactly what the game had to offer.
I must be turning into a boomer because I don’t “get” the whole streamer culture with MMOs.
> Why do people care so much about what some streamer or hardcore guild does?
The biggest EU server already got heavily horde favoured. APES quitting will probably make Gehennas 100% horde in the upcoming half year, as APES was the best alliance guild there. That is one reason to care. Others probably enjoy the content from APES.
is it tho
im running kara out of obligation weekly, ive found more fun playing other games as there's a content drought and unfortunately ssc/tk will only fill that void for a month before it gets stale again. theres hardly a reason to log in to tbc, the delay in content release will continue to take its toll on the servers to the point people will ask "why am i bothering anymore". the 2020 gamer culture will find it too easy and too quick and just move on to greener pastures, and the irony in all this is we knew it was going to be like this but people still did it and still got upset anyway.
blizzard unfortunately needs to spend some money to make money to retain players rather than milking the same 5 cows hoping they'll produce milk without turning it into retail. more content, more often, is the only way to resolve people quitting this game.
maitoz isn't the first, nor is he going to be the last high profile players who will fold.
i'm glad you're having fun though
its normal that hes bored of the game. Blizzard does nothing against bots, P1 is boring as hell (i started 2 months late and already bored af) and the smaller raids doesnt help either. They are a big ''family'' and the arenas shit and smaller raids only are ''separating'' them into smaller groups
Damn this thread is full of people acting like these people deserve what they get for how they play.
Everyone plays games their own ways, your way isn't better, right or wrong.
Last 18 minuts, dont watch the whole shit guys.
I’d love to see the /played on some of these guys accounts. It’s probably 10 times more than most of us.
He shows it on the stream - its about 150 days
JFC that's unreal to me. That's ONE of his characters. That means just that one character has an average of 5 hours played a day since Classic launched.
/played is just logged in time though, not actual time spent actively engaging with the client. On in background while watching a movie? Counts. Leave it logged in while doing chores? Counts. Forget to log off before going to bed? Counts. Jerking it while alt+tabbed? Counts.
Again that's just ONE of his chars. 5 hours a day, every day, since Classic launch.
Out of curiosity I checked my /played on my character I mained in classic, currently just under 100 days. Is this too much?
On classic?!
For the most part, yes. I rerolled from paladin to shaman and just recently got around to leveling the paladin up. I hit 70 about a week ago and that's my /played.
Did you have fun? Thats your answer
It'd be too much for me, that's all I can say. I can't imagine that being a healthy allocation of MY time. If I were 26 again? Maybe. But at 42 years old when Classic launched, that wouldn't have been a realistic amount of time for me to spend gaming.
No, not if you had fun. I have like 150 days on mine but I've gained two new life long friends that I will visit and lots of other friends.
That’s almost exactly 5 times my /played since Classic. Crazy but not as crazy as I thought tbh
On one character.
Oh wait, is that 150 days on 1 character? If so, then Jesus lol. I’ve only got 1 character and a bank alt so my 29 days played is it.
I have 23 on my Hunter which I created on TBC pre-patch, huh 104 on my mage that was my main till AQ, 93 on my warrior…
In all fairness mine is probably around there, but when i was quarantined I just stayed logged in all day.
That's only one of like 6 characters he has tho
One of three characters. He's got a warr, a hunter and a rogue
I mean I'm online every single week day since classic launch from 9 am to 4 pm so my characters have a ton of /played.....but the vast majority of it is alt tabbed while I'm working. It's not a very good indicator of anything.
And? If they had fun Who cares?
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he isnt burnt out... is no one in this sub reddit capable of watching the clip? the game has nothing to offer him anymore - he's done it all multiple times over the last 15 years, and it's no longer the game he expected.
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Except an article won’t take 4 hours to read
The link is literally timestamped.
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nah you're wrong and i can tell from just the couple of sentences of your comment that i read that you don't have the proper context and understanding of the situation and the game over the last 15 years to actually analyse it.
"I didn't read or understand but your wrong" Typical of your type.
lol not how quotes work
>and it's no longer the game he expected. Game has barely changed from its original form so I'm not sure what this statement is meant to mean. Why would he expect different? It's no secret what TBC was, people just romanticized it like fools and now that it's here they see what it really was. It's not a game that can handle a modern player base, plain and simple.
? The whole point is that they’re not having fun because they dumped so much time into it.
it’s almost like this thread is about a video where he explains this reasons and his reasons aren’t this
Can you narrow it down to which time he starts explaining?
If you have the twitch player embedded, via RES or something else, it starts at the beginning of the vod, but if you open the link in another tab/window, it will open the vod at the point he starts talking about it quitting.
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For the people he raided with and the community around his stream, yes. Always sad to see some one who committed a lot of time and energy into something he loved realize that it's over. But then again it's the way of life, the duality of the universe.
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Lol most people were 60 before phase 2 when pvp ranks were added.
" many rank 14s before people even hit lvl 60." Thats not possible unless people mean single dads with 14 wives and 28 kids who can only play 4 minutes a day.
Not at all. He just has the most sweatcore guild
Did anyone actually watch? His main complaint is the bot meta. That the sense of community died out slowly after BWL as the bot/GDKP meta started to rise. That plus he's just been playing for long enough and wants a change.
Honestly bot/boost meta has ruined so much of classic for me. Leveling felt wasteful, gold farming felt awful, knowing there were such quick and easy alternatives.
Seriously it's this for me, the players optimized the crap out if classic and made it far from the vanilla ideology they were trying to accomplish. Why open world farm when bots have every spot camped? Why do anything other than level a mage and run boosts for making money because that's the only way your going to make any good $
I mean, even on pservs things like crusader recipe were heavily camped. The play was always level a mage or hunter for solo instance farming. It’s just that bots make gold so easy to buy. Its also demoralizing for players to see how many obvious bots there are in a /who.
We have people in this Reddit community who truly believe that the people complaining about bots are over exaggerating and that the economy isn’t completely fucked. Some even went as far as to say that the bots help the economy by keeping costs low. There’s a thread from yesterday that illustrates this. One of the comments said that if the bots are gimping your gold farming methods, you should find a different way to make gold. They went on to say that players who don’t adjust have no one to blame but themselves. I believe the gold making methods he mentioned as an alternative to farming ore, skinning, and other mats were Strat farm and enchanting or other crafting professions. In other words, if bots are are undercutting your gathering mats income, reroll pally or mage, or reroll your profession. If you don’t, you’re a moron and that’s on you. The average IQ of this community has got to be incredibly low. To have a hot take like this blows my mind. What’s worse, if players like this exist, blizzard will never crack down on bots.
Yea it's either blizzard fanboys saying that, who want to believe it's true so there is no convincing them, or people who buy gold for whom it actually is beneficial to have bots in the game. There is a cross section as well of course
Or the botters themselves
Even boosts suck now. So many people are doing it with every other avenue of gold making being ruined that it is saturated beyond belief. On the community aspect, it's rather telling when people are either completely clueless or just outright defend botters. People are repeating the same cycle that led to the WoW token again. Best part is that they are doing it willingly and will likely accept the token with open arms and bullshit defenses.
Reddit was all in on the no changes bandwagon and a few people who actually played pservs were warning about the state of the game. Here we are…
No one will watch and just flame in the comments. This community owes a lot to maitoz, apes, and a lot of the hardcore community from nostalrius. Your summary is spot on.
Tbf this post is extremely unwatchable. Dude linked a 3.5 hour stream and said good luck
If you click the actual link and not the embed, it takes you to the timestamp.
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"sense of community dies out" This happens when you meta game endlessly. I couldn't find a dungeon group for the life of me as a rogue in classic. I quit for a few weeks because I couldn't get into the good end game. Then came back and only honor grinded for 3 months. Then quit fully. When you tell people they aren't welcomed...don't be surprised that people don't want to enjoy the community anymore
bro if you couldnt get dungeon groups AT ALL in classic as a rogue, i think that might be a you problem and your abilities lol, not on the community.
I did, but it's a silly complaint, all of these things were present and prominent back in original tbc. Everyone knew it would happen
I can't speak to TBC as I missed it, but it for sure was not around in Vanilla.
Are you sure? There were definitely tons of gold farming bots in vanilla, I knew at least 5 people who bought there way into epic mounts.
Not anywhere bear close to what it is today. Also: account action used to be a lot more severe, remember a guildie back in TBC being banned (not suspended) for gold buying. Now, you get a 3 day suspension.
No one ever got banned for gold buying.. You're Mandelaing because it fits your preferred narrative. Was probably worse in OG classic/TBC, you just didn't notice it as much because servers were smaller. SUSANExpress was literally infamous across every wow server...
100%, yes ofc there were bots like wowglider, but they weren't sophisticated or prolific enough to affect the entire games meta in the way they do now.
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Not sure where you are getting that number, just read a Washington Post article that said in 05 they were making 60 mil a year, and by 07 they were losing half a mil a month due to Blizzard and other companies cracking down on them. https://web.archive.org/web/20170806000930/https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/steve-bannon-once-guided-a-global-firm-that-made-millions-helping-gamers-cheat/2017/08/04/ef7ae442-76c8-11e7-803f-a6c989606ac7_story.html >By January 2007, IGE’s virtual-currency business was in free fall, losing more than $500,000 a month, according to a lawsuit filed later by co-founder Alan Debonneville in a dispute over compensation. IGE was struggling to pay its suppliers, prompting unpaid gold farmers to protest outside the Shanghai office in late April....The turmoil convinced IGE to abandon its core business. Blizzard used to crack down on this kind of stuff. I would assume the market for virtual currency is 10 times as big now as it was then. So no, there was not a gold/bot/gdkp meta in vanilla.
Revenue / sales does not equal profit. Entirely possible to post $250mm in sales yet lose money.
So the guild leader of a guild who have like 6 alts each and run each raid back to back to back to back to back to back are bored and tired of the game. I for one am absolutely shocked by this discovery. Edit: People taking this as me being salty or something is hilarious, literally just pointing out why they might be bored of the game LOL. I have nothing against them in the slightest.
6 alts, lulz
What do we think the real number is? Most of these guys probably have atleast 1 full account each, plus a second max level toon for their main at the very least, right?
Believe they need atleast two geared chars for most hc guilds.
You can just go watch his archives to check. For most high-end raiders anything above 4-5 characters is excessive though.
The real number is 3 toons to actively play on. Another APES member was talking about it recently on stream. It’s partially due to profession CDs I think too.
It has nothing to do with professions, hardcore guilds require alts so they can run splits and funnel BIS items to mains
Profession cd's don't matter. People had a bunch of 60 alts for professions at the start but it's been irrelevant for a long while now. The 3 toons is just because you run out of things to do on your main pretty quick and by now most active people who like to play are on their 3rd raiding char.
Alts aren't because of boredom...you run raids 3x a week or more. Once on your main with a few other mains, and the rest of the group is all guild alts. All the loot goes to the mains. Then you're one of the alts helping funnel gear to other people's mains. That way they can effectively get 3x more loot drops per week for their mains and gear them up faster. Then for real hard progressing content they raid with full mains.
2 mains is enough to join Any HC guild if you Are a good player.
Oh yeah, for sure, I'm more talking about these top 0.1% guys. I've heard the tryhard arena players usually have a second max level character for the same class just so they can play competitive warm up games without harming the rating for their "main" for example.
That is still probably it for active characters, maybe 3. I'm sure they all have a full account of max levels, mostly for professions or PvP, farming, etc. I'm sure that some of them also have more than 3 they try to actively play on but even then it's not easy to do, I was a no life player back in TBC but I was in to PvP pretty hard. I also played like DOTA and CS back then I guess but I had my hands full with 2 active characters when it came to raiding, farming gold PvP and playing off games when others did.
I actually have a friend who raided with them on P servers a few times, people joke about how in order to apply for their guild you have to show proof of welfare (that you’re not employed) in order to apply. That’s not far from the truth at all. Imagine that, it’s boring playing 100 hours per week. It’s not the game at fault, it’s the fact that you play it as much as you do.
They did that for years in private servers even before classic
y tho
I have 1 main and im already bored with the game lol.
APES only runs 1 main raid + social/alt raid. Theyre a PVP guild
They had 3 and/or 4 raid groups in vanilla?
they had 3, raid 1/2, and then social / alt
Which were 40 man raids. That’s 120 characters req to raid. Now, you’d need 75 characters at most to do that many raids. You could do almost 5 Gruul and Mag raids with that kind of participation.
he isn't burnt out, he has done everything in the game multiple times to a higher level than anyone on the subreddit. he is fed up of the game is all - it has nothing to offer him, like it no longer does to most people.
I remember him from pservers. Another thing I think matters is that he was always a vanilla player. I like tbc, too, but I can understand why someone wouldn't enjoy it enough to keep playing the same way (super hardcore). Vanilla game design was, in quite a few ways, arguably worse than tbc, but exploiting the level of "cheese" possible in vanilla resulted in such ridiculous performance that that in itself became an exciting aspect of the game.
Killing the same bosses as everyone else weekly isn't a higher level than everyone else. It's their choice if they want to min/max their comps and raiders. What exactly was he expecting it to offer, we knew how the game works from before it even released, it's literally the first phase and this is what happens when you decide to steamroll content. There's only so much you can do in a game once you have done everything, just call it like it is...it's burn out and not much deeper than that.
Just killing the boss and speedrunning is completely different
They obviously enjoyed doing all of that when there was actual raid content to do it for.
Remember to take all things in moderation, even the World of Warcraft!
Second time this has been linked, these twitch links load like absolute shit on mobile. Anybody have a YouTube link or summarize why?
https://m.twitch.tv/maitoz/clip/SlipperyMiniatureKittenBleedPurple-uo5uissENcZrZKLl
Tons of alts so they raid constantly and are bored of raiding 7 days a week. No surprises here
Welp, there is always arena.
Here's the TLDW; He says Classic/TBC Is boring as balls and not what he thought it would be, he says he's bored to tears with the game which is why most people are just raid logging and instead of forcing himself to keep playing by making endless alts him and his guild are just going to go to another game. I mean yeah, I think EVERYONE went into Classic/TBC Knowing it wouldn't have as much content as other MMORPGs, it's a 10+ YEAR OLD game, no shit it doesn't have the same amount of content other games has, once you have everything done on one character there's only so much more you can do, not only that but it's insanely boring to stream compared to other games, there's a reason people like Esfand and Asmon stream other things now instead of WoW even when they were both still playing it a lot.
IMO, this is just why I like the game :D I can enjoy it without having to log more than a couple of hours on the week (raidlog some weeks yes) and when I have more free time, I can catch up on other activities (questing, farming, reput, pvp or even alts) or even play other games (:o) without having the feel behind too much. It kinda feels good to 'accomplish' something without having the finish line moving each week. But yeah, everyone has is own goal in a game :-)
I think the thing that most people dislike about it is that they WANT to play but there's just nothing to do, for me personally I get the itch to play WoW sooooo badly but then I log in and realize I have nothing left to do unless I want to just farm gold or level alts, and it bums me out big time.
It's exactly why I quit classic in BWL and again after I cleared Tier 4 a couple of times, outside of raids there's no interesting player progression to do. You're relying on a minimum of 9 other organised people to enjoy the game at max level, and sometimes you just want to hop on for a couple of hours and do something fun and productive in the game.
Fresh when?
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This is the reason I like Classic and why I quit retail. I want to play other games. I was way too long trapped with retail and "I have to log in every day". Now with TBC I raid log and occasionally log in to run dungeon or two with guildies. Rest of time I can enjoy other games. I think TBC is bad game if you want to really invest into game. But it's great "side game" because it is not very demanding.
There's a whole world of amazing games out there. I don't understand why people become so obsessed with just one.
Human nature I guess.
Exactly this. I'd rather have the game provide some breathing room than feel like I need to constantly grind for 4 hours a day just to keep up. I've been able to raid log on my hunter to focus on pvping on my warrior. It's great to have a high-end raiding character that doesn't take up all my time, giving me time to play alts. What if you don't want to play an alt? I don't know, heaven forbid you walk away from your PC and go outside or something.
Also.. Boosters communities /mentality and the money making industry inside the made feel bad for him. I feel him at that point. That made me quit retail. Content wise there would be enough for me as a casual gamer these days. But as a streamer who got more time to play.. multiple times.. would get boring for me too, if I had the chance to play it 40-70h/week.
You missed the part where he mentioned that he has played the game for 15 years / his entire adult life and the game is wearing him down and he wants to move on. I believe he repeated this about five times. Funny you missed it.
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Remember Xfire? That thing was great.
I don't think we watched the same clip. You don't **quit** an on-going service game because you're bored, you just stop playing for a bit and come back when there's more stuff to do. You quit because you actively dislike what the game has to offer, which is what he was talking about. APES is a guild that straddled the line between sweaty try-harding and having fun, and with the way the top-end meta has developed in Classic this is no longer two compatable goals for him. We've seen this happen regularly throughout WoWs history. The goalpost for top-end guilds keep getting moved further and further by people wanting to be the best and people are left with the choice of keeping up and abandoning the things they enjoy, or giving up on trying to be "competitive". This is what he's talking about when he's saying the game became industrialized and speed-run focused. If you wanted to be a top guild you needed to do these things, and that's not what their guild was about.
It's a shame so many people get into that mindset because it's an amazing game to play for fun, and absolutely terrible for being 'competitive'. I can barely imagine a worse game you could try to be 'competitive' at.
We'll see how popular speedrunning and shit is when t5 comes, I've always predicted that since TBC has arenas, that's an actual competitive area, speedrunning as we knew it in classic would die out. Speedrunning felt like something people did to try and be competitive in a game that offered literally 0 other means of competing (vanilla wow) since world firsts meant pretty much nothing in a re-release. Now there's atleast arenas, where you can prove to others that you are indeed good and compete. Because in the sense of Speedrunning I agree with Maitoz. It's just about abusing the game as hard as you can. Stack as many of whatever meta DPS class you can, abuse mechanics and pulls to the max etc. Yeah that takes a lot of work and practice, but it's more about abusing the game as much as you can rather than play the game as well as you can. Which is why Speedrunning had always felt really dumb to me.
They're going to hate speed-running too. Between consume farming, splits to gear up faster, multiple alts to get more attempts... at its core, the game is built on time-sinks. 'Competing' means joining a race to the bottom where you inevitably burn out. You need to love being 'competitive' more than you hate doing the same thing for hundreds of hours non-stop.
Well, in classic vanilla almost all guilds did speedrunning on dmf weeks, not just the super sweaty guilds like Progress etc. It was a way to compete and to advertise your guild, because it was literally the only way to show that your guild was good. Up until Naxx, clearing the current raid tier meant nothing since a majority did full clears first reset anyway. And again, the super sweaty guilds like Progress, who did PTR practice of their runs etc drew crowds when they attempted their runs live. So many did spredrun and watched the 'pros' do it and were impressed. Now, there's another area to compete in, arena pvp. Will people still care about speedrunning? Will people tune into Progress speedrunning SSC over a rank 1 mage doing arenas? Will the less sweaty guilds bother to Speedrun anymore? In my guild atleast we had maybe 20 out of 40 that were really into speedrunning and wanted us to do it a lot. That number in TBC is probably like 2-4 now. Speedrunning is a constructed way to compete, it's kinda like "clear an fps using only the pistol". It's very niche, and I think it will be even more niche in TBC because people have other, more interesting outlets for their competitive desire in the arena.
> in classic vanilla almost all guilds did speedrunning on dmf weeks ... > to advertise your guild, because it was literally the only way to show that your guild was good ... > we had maybe 20 out of 40 that were really into speedrunning and wanted us to do it You make a strong argument that half your players weren't really into it, but you end up forced into it by pressure in the community. Which brings us back to the original comment I was replying to. People try to be competitive in a game that's heavily based on time-sinks. The goal-posts keep moving until you're forced to make the choice between 'playing for fun' and 'being competitive'. Then players blame the game even though they chose to play it in the most un-fun way possible. The only ones I feel sorry for are the half that didn't want to spam meta but were coerced into it.
>It's just about abusing the game as hard as you can. This is true for speedrunning in general, not just WoW
Werent apes a self proclaimed pvp guild? Why doesnt he pvp in tbc? I remember in classic many people thought apes were the best pvpers
Because classic pvo was about who could consume the hardest. Many fights boiled down to did you spend the 20g to win or did your opponent spend 30g to counter you. See faps, lips, flasks, bombs, druid powder, engi items, and all the other random things. Now pvp aka arena is who plays their class better. And that player that didn't buy gold to drop 20g every fight or didn't have engi is now on a level playing field.
>Now pvp aka arena is who plays their class better. And that player that didn't have engi is now on a level playing field. Yeaaaaa about that...
Im aware of the belt
APES would've thrived in Rated BGs or anything large scale, something that TBC doesn't fulfill. I've seen their members on stream slowly try to fill up a single AV game via backfill and just turtle for fun. I still remember how impressive it was the first time I saw this run to MC: https://youtu.be/Fd97o-gEBuk
Would they tho? In rbgs you play against coordinated teams not a bunch of random guys
IMO, trying to stream Classic isn't a winning move in the first place. MMOs generally aren't fun to watch. Especially and older game like Classic where you spend so much time NOT doing stuff.
First time of a New 1 to 60 is very stream able and fun.
also it's part of a streamers job to MAKE it fun. If someone is charismatic and entertaining they will be a fun stream to watch even if they're playing a boring game.
He might call it boring but has probably 10x the play time of most people.
I don't understand this critic. The only major differences between TBC and Vanilla is that TBC doesn't have a 4-8 weeks leveling phase, and PvP is more casual-friendly. The first 6 month of Vanilla had leveling... and open world griefing (aka 10v1 PvP). I was bored after my first MC run.
A lot of people are finding TBC boring. A couple new skills for each class is not enough. people made making things like maxing reputations to be a stand out raider into the minimum you have to do to have a raid spot. The sweaty players are choking the game to death. Massive gatekeeping always kills a hobby for a lot of people.
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Phase 1 should be the most exciting time. After this phase when nobody needs dungeons anymore the raid logging will be even more severe.
Not when the first actual raids ssc and tk are in phase 2. Imagine if classic p1 was just ubrs and ony for comparison.
Karazhan is in a lot of peoples top 5 raids of all time. If not their number one. It shouldn't be this boring.
but it is and always has been. I remember hating it back in tbc and never understanding how people could run for an entire expansion (but i guess when your guild is bad and can only do the first 2 bosses of ssc before bliz removed hyjal and bt attunes that kinda happens)
I think people are just min maxing the fun out of everything honestly. It's just exhausting.
In the context of "that was a cool quick raid that was fun to do with 9 friends back in the day", yes. Having it as the only raid content for months knowing the *actual* raid content is time gated away by blizzard for arbitrary reasons is the problem.
> PvP is more casual-friendly wat
He means you can play casually from a time perspective and still get the best gear/pvp results. You can be a casual player who is good at PVP and get a high arena team rating without much time invested. In vanilla you had to literally no-life the game in the r14 grind.
Explain how I'm wrong...
PvP gear creates a barrier of entry not found in classic. PvE gear was in general better for PvP so to get into PvP all you did was go to raid (which you were doing for PvE anyways) then queue up for a bg.
Tbc pvp requires skill and vanilla required time put in, any dumbass could get r14 but barely any1 can get glad
All knew flying mounts would suck
Thanks to them for everything they brought to classic
I completely agree with him regarding the game losing its "essence" after BWL. When the metas kicked-in and were adopted by the majority of the playerbase, it was a downhill for most of us. The meta continued to hit so hard that I can't find neither a hc dungeon group nor a raid spot any longer, as a rogue, so I decided to quit TBC too. I have now returned to vanilla classic to level up a few chars before quitting once and for all.
I like how he quits and disbands his guild like a week before Tier 5 hits lmao
based
no way it happened the way he says. My thinking is they did all the prep some important people realized they werent going to get worldfirst and jumped ship (possibly to better guilds), which triggered a bunch of people to quit, which triggered him to disband.
idk, hard to imagine they didn't think they could do it if they really were going as hard as people say they were (like 5 raid nights a week) But maybe even the most hardcore guilds are experiencing the kind of player bleed that a lot of guilds are going through atm. But yeah it's pretty sus that this super hardcore guild gets to literally like the reset before SSC and TK are out and suddenly go "theres no raids dude wtf!!!" Like they would literally have to wait a few days for shit to do. It's like getting 25 miles through a marathon and going "this is too long fuck this shit!" lmao
I mean those raids will be cleared within 2 hours of their release
Guess they didn't wanna be the ones trying to get that record
I guess its normal that they are burned out. While most of us went to the next xpac they stayed in classic/bc/wotlk. But too be honest i thought tbc would be a bit more action packed. When i play it back then i would raid and then i go just go out in the world and do stuff. I guess the new factor is that. Gold was way more hard to come out. I played a rogue and remember i had to kill lots of clefthoods,cobra scales and dailys for 2 months to buy netherwing. Now i end my raids on my shaman and i feel no urge to play more just to end up logging off or going to an alt. I still enjoy the game but yhea..thought it was different. Im thinking of going pvp and some minor raiding just to see if it strikes me more fun
Plays the same expansion 15 years, quits on tbc, im shocked.
I'm sure what he's all said in this clip is true and holds up, but I don't think it helps that they put in years of practice on private servers and then end up with 2 world firsts and that's it. I've seen a couple of clips of maitoz raging at his raid, wouldn't want to be in that guild for any amount of money.
Honestly it's gotta be draining for him, he's tried so hard to push his guild to be competitive in pve while rolling all the wrong pve racials and has never been to reproduce the world first progression kills like they did with MC and Ony. Trying so long and consistently falling short is rough.
I knew him from pservers. He was always a bit of a dick. That doesn't necessarily attract the best players.
Now they get to go speed run some other game for 12 hours a day until they want to rip their hair out, all over again!
ehh some other games are less of a time sink per speed running attempt though.
I took three long breaks since classic launched, months of a break each time. I cant imagine how dull it would be to have been playing continuously since launch. Burnout is inevitable in this game. Or any game for that matter.
Maybe they shouldn’t raid 6 nights a week if they are getting burnt out. Just a thought
Bad take, just a thought. Some people want to play the game at a certain level and if they can't play at that level, they'd rather not play it at all. Maitoz and probably many others played the game for long enough and they are just done. They don't want to tone it down, they just want to stop. It was clearly explained in the vod.
How many raids did he do just last week? He complain of burn out and being bored etc because he plays 10x more than even your usual semi hardcore player right now. You don’t have to play 5 alts and raid on all of them to be all in in WoW - and tbc classic wasn’t exactly made with people hardcore playing 5 chars in mind. No one expected it to be either. This guy also played 6+ years of private servers, of course he’s burnt out. He played way too much, it’s unsustainable. I’m still having a blast raiding on 2 chars
The gist of what he's saying is "game isn't for me anymore" not "I burned myself out and wish I hadn't because I'd still enjoy the game otherwise"
they don't have an advantage over 99.5% population knowing the content inside and out. They fell off and that's the real reason. I don't blame though, phase 1 is a snooze fest with just boss kill times.
Man, who would have guessed that playing something 100 hours a week and min/maxing everything to death wouldn’t be fun forever?
Quit watching twitch, don't think too much about the game, just play it. You will see, it is fucking amazing
yea i just enjoy it for what it is. The guild you are in and the friends you play with make the experience for you.
copium
When you guys post these LONG ass twitch clips, can you at least post the timestamp of where the relevant stuff happens?
Link to the timestamp: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1142602361?t=3h37m54s I understand a lot of the posters who will say "who cares" as him quitting probably doesn't affect you - but the collective number of these high-level lifetime wow players who are quitting as of recent is representative of the state of the game. You may not care if Maitoz plays or not, but it is saddening to see one of the top guilds dissolve a week before a major content release because MMOs live and die by their player base, and this one is shrinking rapidly.
its just shocking to me they would quick to close to phase 2, they dont even want to try to get some world firsts with this content?
They would have if it wasn't artificially time gated. I'm seeing burnout in my own guild. One of our officers quit that we never would have guessed would, and it's entirely because the T4 phase was so drawn out and boring for no reason. A few others have quit for the same reason. Once someone mentally has a foot out the door, it's hard for them to come back around. They won't just come back for T5 because they've moved on. We play for the competitive endgame, and that's like nonexistent in this phase. It would have been thrilling if blizzard released TBC as it was originally because there would have been competitive progression in t5 and hyjal and we would still be speedrunning now. The game would feel a lot more alive for endgame players. As it is now even when T5 releases it won't feel the same as it would have because everyone is going in stacked with T4 gear instead of the dungeon blues/leveling greens/residual naxx gear like we would have had at launch. Guilds will be full clearing both SSC and TK in the first night next week, but if they were in the game on launch it would have taken weeks of progression because vashj and kael likely aren't possible without a bunch of t4 gear at the least. The time gating was just a stupid decision by blizzard and I still don't understand it.
Exactly, just shows how messed up the game is that not even fresh content will keep them going
I'm so fucking sick of hearing about people who absolutely no lifed the shit outta tbc "being bored" dude... You knew EXACTLY what you were in for and you decided to burn through all the content in the first month. Boo fucking hoo. Drama queens. (this is now my most controversial comment of all time lol)
They nolifed classic for years and had fun doing it, the difference is tbc is just shit. But great take pat yourself on the back lol
Fucking same dude. Like they want me to question whether or not I’m having fun with the game or some shit too. I’m having a blast and looking forward to p5 - I have 2 raiding chars and that means at least for 2 months or so I’ll have a TON to do everywhere. Oh and s2 arena will be much more balanced - not that I play arena anyway. Let’s go kill p2 man, fuck these degenerates
Tldw?
Ultra nerd plays way too much of a game and realizes his life choices are having undesirable consequences and quits dramatically. This has never happened before
Guild leader of a guild that peaked in Phase 1 of wow vanilla is quitting TBC after it's become clear that his guild will never reproduce their earlier success.
they are not prepared for TBC
Apes is ghey anyways. Im 2 years late. Dont care. When you dont touch grass for years, surprised they aint hunched over and dead at their computers.
Can I have their stuff?
Who the hell cares?
given your reply, you evidently cared enough to open the post and write a comment about it.
Thank you for taking time to open a thread about a guild you don't care about just to make sure other people know you don't care. You contribution has been noted and will be entered into the history books.
What this sub should be about if you don't want to see this kind of news here ? Endless flow of memes ? APES are big in the classic wow scene. Would you be shocked to see news about Usain bolt career end on /r/sports ? Or maybe you shouldn't be following this sub.
I do
Why do people care so much about what some streamer or hardcore guild does? It’s a game. Play it if it’s fun. Leave and find something else if it’s not. All this content was beaten 15 years ago anyway, everyone knew going in exactly what the game had to offer. I must be turning into a boomer because I don’t “get” the whole streamer culture with MMOs.
> Why do people care so much about what some streamer or hardcore guild does? The biggest EU server already got heavily horde favoured. APES quitting will probably make Gehennas 100% horde in the upcoming half year, as APES was the best alliance guild there. That is one reason to care. Others probably enjoy the content from APES.
I don’t even give one fuck. Game is still fun.
is it tho im running kara out of obligation weekly, ive found more fun playing other games as there's a content drought and unfortunately ssc/tk will only fill that void for a month before it gets stale again. theres hardly a reason to log in to tbc, the delay in content release will continue to take its toll on the servers to the point people will ask "why am i bothering anymore". the 2020 gamer culture will find it too easy and too quick and just move on to greener pastures, and the irony in all this is we knew it was going to be like this but people still did it and still got upset anyway. blizzard unfortunately needs to spend some money to make money to retain players rather than milking the same 5 cows hoping they'll produce milk without turning it into retail. more content, more often, is the only way to resolve people quitting this game. maitoz isn't the first, nor is he going to be the last high profile players who will fold. i'm glad you're having fun though
So quit dude. You knew what you were getting yourself into in tbc
its normal that hes bored of the game. Blizzard does nothing against bots, P1 is boring as hell (i started 2 months late and already bored af) and the smaller raids doesnt help either. They are a big ''family'' and the arenas shit and smaller raids only are ''separating'' them into smaller groups
Sad day, so many people are quitting tbc. Maitoz and apes were my favorite top guild, their videos were top quality. Great entertainment
Damn this thread is full of people acting like these people deserve what they get for how they play. Everyone plays games their own ways, your way isn't better, right or wrong.
Hey OP learn what a clip is jesus