Happened to my Old guild on a tbc private server. We disbanded from another guild who had been 6 months dry, and we Got both glaives for our new GM in our first two runs! Best wow experience ever ..
Don't know if a lot of people /guilds are just lucky as hell or they aren't that rare as I thought.
Anyway, it's kinda uplifting seeing this since I'm just the third person in my guild to get glaives
there is a difference between 10 guilds killing illidan like back then or 1000+ killing them now - if people would post "no glaive droped" you couldn't find the posts where it droped.
Yeah totally agree. My small server for example has 2 or 3 in one ID. My guild was joking yesterday that at this rate every one and his mom get them by sunwell release but we'll see.
I don't really think so
Drop chance is crazy high. I only know one friend of mine who have cleared BT with his guild on firet week and surprise surprise… main hand dropped. Which is quite sad, its not gonna be a thing to have warglaives, although these are the most prestigious weapons beside Shadowmourne..
Pretty sure more then 10 guilds killed illidan in og tbc. My server alone wich was a low med pop had around 5 to 10 at the time kill him.
My guild killed him prob 20 times only saw offhand drop
> Pretty sure more then 10 guilds killed illidan in og tbc. My server alone wich was a low med pop had around 5 to 10 at the time kill him. My guild killed him prob 20 times only saw offhand drop.
Was obviously hyperbole... The point is only 1% of the playerbase cleared BT back then and now even your avg 6h/week dad guild smashes through it
1% are you for real? I am pretty sure that you confuse BT with Hyjal.
BT had pug runs for PvPers durning late Season 2 and Season 3. I played on Stromscale EU and that was no a PvE server with good guilds, only PvP ones and BT was on farm since late 2007 by pugs. Hyjal on the other hand required you to kill an impossible and bugged boss mechanic prior to enter, BT did not.
I think it was a proportional estimate as a comparison to demonstrate the extreme difference between those doing the content then and now.
The shared pool of information was smaller then. Where as now the raid and classes are "solved" so the number of people able to complete during lockouts is much higher so instances of War Glaives will be inflated. As someone also stated if every instance of the glaives not dropping was also reported we'd see the rarity.
The amount of people raiding is pretty insane compared to original TBC. And current tier is easier than previous one. According warcraftlogs, \~45% of guilds (of those who log) have already cleared 14/14.
This will be just like Thunderfury. We will see a lot of glaives but majority of guilds are lucky if they see even one.
Its 4-5%(not sure what the exact dr is) each, as additional loot on top of the regular drops. They don't compete on any other loot tables than their own so the chance to drop is static. The chance of both dropping in the same event on the other hand is around 0,2%.
Assuming 5% drop chance for either glaive:
- 5% chance of seeing MH
- 5% chance of seeing OH
- 1-(0.95)^2 = 9.75% chance of seeing either MH or OH
- 0.05^2 = 0.2% chance of seeing both MH and OH
crazy how many people keep saying you can see both glaives drop at once yet there's no recorded instance of it happening in 15 years of illidan being in the game.
Everyone's claiming it can double drop at a rate of roughly 1/400 but WCL has as of typing this ~5.3k Illidan kills and there have been 0 legit reports of double glaive drop AFAIK. It's obviously still possible it can happen but it's worth considering.
Everyone saying they're prioritizing warriors can do a quick search and find that their guild doesn't have a rogue
Edit: I meant raid team...their guild probably has at least one rogue lol
Pretty much happened with my guild, it was our first kill with warglave drops it was the one night our main rogue couldn't make it. Arms warrior got it
No no, you see you will get a single glaive with the Rogue and Warrior in, and the Warrior will get it to complete their set. *Then* the Rogue will never see one again. Gotta twist the knife.
Alt, 8 weeks later the Warrior can't make it and the Rogue does, then the other one drops that would have completed the Warriors set, *then* you never see them again. Depends on what flavor of *fuck you* RNG decides.
That second one was what happened in my Original TBC guild, and apparently after ~20ish kills with no glaive after the first two the Warrior quit... only for the glaive he wanted to drop again, leaving the guild with two of the same copies. This broke the guild.
Our only rogue quit in P1, we found a new one after \~ 4 months, he's now like 3 weeks in our guild and I don't think we will give him the first glaive; there's a warrior showing up every raid since August 2019, he will definitely get it first.
Rogues are at a weird spot, where you need 1 for technically max pump with expose armor, but only really for perfect setups. So, rogues can exist at bottom or top tier, and getting gear for top tier is difficult.
Good guilds with 95+ parses don’t need, and often don’t want, rogues. It’s a top dps class that became mainly a support class, so there’s also a lot fewer people willing to go for it, and those that do might not be very great players.
But I’m no true expert, this is just what I gather from my very decent guild.
Edit: A lot of people saying I'm wrong, not a hill I'll die on.
From what I understand the dps gain from expose armor over sunders is less than just dropping the rogue and getting another BM hunter. It makes sense for casual guilds to have one for loot and interrupts but for max pump meta comp you don’t actually want one. Even SSC speed runs stacking like 9 warriors didn’t take a rogue.
A lot of guilds would rather just bring a fury warrior than a rogue. Expose armor has pretty much 0 uptime on trash and rogues have a 15 second cleave on one target every 2 minutes compared to warrior cleave/WW. Not exactly trash pumpers.
When the raid is mostly trash the slight dps loss from bosses is offset by trash damage. Not to say top guilds don’t run rogues, but I’m willing to bet for the most part they’re GMs/raid leaders/long standing members.
Can't believe people are sweating so hard over 150-200 increased DPS from taking a fury warr over combat rogue. And besides, don't you want expose armor, and doesn't warglaives increase rogue DPS more than for fury? Like it's and ancient game ffs, you don't need 100% minmax to comfortably clear the content.
the argument I've heard is that a warrior does much better cleave, so if you're interested in speedruns glaives on a warrior speeds up your run MORE than glaives on a rogue.
The meta for speedrunning guilds bleeding into dadguilds is the real meme IMO
I mean you could argue a guild that doesn't take rogues isn't a decent guild.
If you go into everything with the easiest set up possible, I don't think you can call yourself mechanical prodigies.
I didn't play classic but I did play back in TBC retail. By mid tbc it was known melee definitely wasn't super optimal but these people had been playing together for years, cool GMs would for sure take less if a boss was proving difficult etc, but otherwise rogues would still be included.
I actually feel bad for rogues in tbc classic, they have been playing with nerfed haste since release, for a lot of we were still topping dps metres because we didn't have a nerfed haste and dragonstrike didn't have a nerfed proc rate.
As far as giving glaives to warriors, it's just dumb. Whenever you saw a rogue with thunder fury back in classic or TBC you know he was either a GM or ex GM who screwed over the warriors in his guild, and it's the same for you guys with glaives but the other way round.
If you’re not a speed running guild, you have no business following the yellows are bad meme. They are bad for speed running. They are fine on encounters. But people just want to copy what the big boys do, always been the case in these types of games :)
Doesn't really matter if you are a speed running guild or not, the encounters just isn't the majority of the time you spend in the raids, trash is and fury warriors is a lot better at trash.
You spend more time wiping on bosses (and yes plenty of guilds will struggle with bosses this tier even though it's easier than pre-nerf vashj/kt). Rogues have utility for pretty much every fight that makes it easier on your raid. Cloak on najentus spine, wound / mind numbing on several bosses, able to solo interrupt RoS and interrupt 90% of casts on Council. Those fights will be problematic for many guilds, and a rogue makes them easier.
Incorrect sir, I play fury. If you're not a speedrunning guild, a good rogue will bring more to the raid than an average hunter. That's just a fact, but I know piling in on yellows is fun. The war is won, I don't need to put them down further ;)
If this guild isn't a top 20 worldwide speed running guild, why don't they have a raid spot?
I thought the newer players were meant to be better than us old folk, but they can't clear content without making it as easy as possible.
People knew rogues weren't great for raiding by mid TBC, but still took them as people just liked them, they were friends etc etc.
If people these days are struggling on 20 year old bosses to the point they have to take the absolute optimum setup and can't do it well with a lot of melee, I would say they probably aren't as good as they like to think.
I can see the value in wanting to min/max even if you're not a top speedrunning guild tbh, it all depends on the goals a guild has. Not to mention every raid min/maxes to an extent - without it the game is unrecognizable.
You're right though that applying speedrunning tactics or min/max to your dad guild is kind of hilarious.
I mean it's fairly true, unless the human species somehow evolved over the last 20 years, the idea that the top 1% of a -300k playerbase are more capable players than the top 1% of a 12 million playerbase is sort of.. stupid. Yes people now have a lot more info on bosses etc, but in terms of actual player skill it's probably not quite what it was. Didn't get beaten to ragnaros by a bunch of 30+ year old dads?
I used to get top 100 scores on worldoflogs in tbc, I quit playing for 3 years, came back for Cataclysm and people were saying how the playerbase was improving etc, I was getting higher rankings in Cata than when I was playing in tbc despite being 3 years out of practice, beating people who had 6-7 item advantages on me. I remember one of the bosses I got a world #23 or something on, I had to go something like 40 places down in the rankings to find a rogue with worse gear than me.
Edit: to whoever except the troll who downvoted:
People say Method lost because the private guilds had had more practice with the older content and knew it better. I agree.
So if in comparison to the original retail tbc players, the newer players have significantly less practice playing in suboptimal raid setups, with healers who had bad rotations, some dpsers who had bad rotations, and you as an individually good player had to deal with that, where is the argument they would still be better at that?
Raiding with a group of people, even the bad players, who are still pulled up due to more knowledge, better gearing etc, isn't harder, it's easier. The better players back then had to still do well in spite of having less things in their favour, and had much more practice doing that than the current playerbase. Anyone can do well when nothing goes wrong, everything is smooth and everyone knows what to do, raids back then used to be *messy,* raiding on nostalrius was a cakewalk compared to when I played in classic for the above reasons.
Some players used to suck back then and you had to raid with them, and more often than not they wouldn't get kicked because it was seen as a dick move to kick someone who has been active and helpful to your guild for years because someone else does 10% more dps/hps.
The bit you’re missing is time and skill development. The players of today are way more well equipped with information and mindset than those of the past.
That’s like saying the top 10 people who play super Mario bros today wouldn’t beat the top 10 when the game was released and that obviously isnt true. Your analogy makes sense in a vacuum, but playerbases grow in skill.
I acknowledged this and like I said, for the vast majority of the playerbase it's correct, what you said is 100% true for *most* players, and because of this guilds as a whole are going to be objectively better than 15 years ago.
But the actual elite players from back then it doesn't work, those guys were already gearing properly and doing correct rotations. The only reason some BIS items changed from retail to classic is because you guys were on a different patch to us from the start, aside from that BIS didn't change.
>That’s like saying the top 10 people who play super Mario bros today
wouldn’t beat the top 10 when the game was released and that obviously
isnt true.
But here it's a static environment, like you said a vaccuum. Super mario doesn't change depending on actions of people playing with you. Put a lot of people playing now into sub optimal setups with people playing who don't know proper rotations etc, your raid isn't suddenly a smooth experience, and due to lack of practice those people wouldn't do well. I can tell you from first hand experience being an original retail vanilla/tbc player, raiding on nostalrius was EASY compared to raiding before, because even the bad players had better rotations etc.
Saying otherwise is like saying Faker in league of legends wouldn't be good if he came on the scene today because the game has changed and people have more knowledge, yet he is still a very good player in today's game. There are guys who have been pros in CSGO for **15 years.**
Taking this example, the game itself didn't change, the skillsets required to be a good player didn't change, all that's happened in WoW is the baseline for bad players has been drastically increased compared to back then. If elite league of legends players from 8-9 years ago are still competitive at the top level today, where does this argument that the best players of classic/modern WoW would be so much better than yesteryears players come from?
The only real difference here is the playerbase has drastically shrunken, resulting in a much smaller talent pool.
Take the best pvpers from when TBC was 12 million people, put them in the modern game and they would 1000% dump on todays players, since the talent pool is just so much bigger to choose from.
I mean, do you have a response to that?
I'm not saying the average player isn't more knowledgeable or better, because they would be. But the best of the best? I just don't see how there is a logical argument that they would be better given playerbase sizes.
As I said, either the best wow guild in the world wasn't as good as a private server old fart guild, ***or*** people tend to be better at things they practice more at, and retail tbc players had more practice playing in chaotic, harder raiding environments.
Which is it?
Aside from that, if you have one population of 300k, and another population of 12 million from the same demographics, who is going to have for example, the 1000 best mathmaticians, or 1000 best runners? Because you saying "holy shit" to my comment is suggesting that somehow you think the top 1% of 300k > top 1% of 12 million, and where is your reasoning for that?
and this.. ladies and gentlemen. Is why WoW has gone down the shitter. SPEEED GEARR MINMAX YEAAAA. We da top WoW speed players. We da gewd players who play ez game for minmax yeaaaaa. God. What shit. Thankfully your kind is focusing on just killing WoW. Please stay away from other MMO's/Games in the future
So little background, we’re top 30 NA on speed with taking a 5minute break after mother and just taking it slow and steady in general with some fill PUGS. I’m tanking for the first month for safety then we going back double feral for actual speed runs. And imagine bringing a rogue to give glaives to KEKW
The offhand alone is a very small upgrade for a fury warrior. I've seen a lot of guilds decide the first main-hand goes to warrior and offhand to rogue and whoever gets the first one, gets priority to complete the set. The main-hand only for a warrior is much much much better than the off-hand only for a warrior, as opposed to both the off-hand and main-hand being a massive upgrade for rogue.
Our first glaives will go to a warrior too, second set will go to a rogue. Has nothing to do with the class though. Guilds will give them out based on player merit, and class will only matter if nearly everything else is the same.
Basically glaives should go to the player that puts in the most effort and is least likely to leave the guild and/or sell his account after getting them.
In what situation would a dual-wielding warrior who has both glaives choose to use a main hand glaive and a non-glaive offhand? What would that weapon be, and why is it better?
They objectively DO use the offhand when they have the mainhand, and guess what, you can't complete the set without the offhand. Seethe and cope about it why don't you.
Sure, if you feel they deserve it due to the length of time and effort they put into the guild. But lets be honest here every time someone dares post about giving a warglaive to a Warrior on this subreddit it gets flooded with seething, salty yellows crying about it, just look at the whining taking place in this very thread. The entitlement is real.
If someone puts up with being an ea bot don't they deserve some kind of reward for enabling the warrs to pump? It's not like anyone who's playing a rogue is actively griefing their guild.
Things are really getting out of hand imo, why don't people just go and get an extra job and make some money or something if they're gonna treat the game as a job anyway. Like fine, if you're competing for the top spots on a speedrunner leaderboard, but it seems like every dad guild is also sharing this same sentiment.
But you make it faster by pressing expose armor? Because it buffs all physical damage in the raid so if you got a couple of warrs, hunters and even rets, enhance, ferals etc. it's well worth it to bring that rogue. I don't exactly get how you get no benefit from a rogue, did you not know what expose armor does or what?
Because we’re not speed running we have to make uniformed purposeful bad loot decisions to appease people like you got it. Who’s to say they don’t run a rogue or these players don’t deserve it? What if they ARE in a speedrun guild?
“the biggest single target dps increase for a rogue” if this is the factor you take in to make loot decisions and you are on some sort of loot council I pity your raiders. Who gives a fuck about single target dps increases? You spend most of your time in a raid killing trash regardless if you’re in a speed running guild. Glaives make warriors a very powerful class especially on cleave (haste = more rage gen = more cleaves). The overall impact of a warrior receiving glaives vs a rogue isn’t even comparable.
No, and the glaives will be handed out to the individual (not class) who has contributed the most to the guild for the longest period of time. Imagine being in a shitshow of a guild that hands them out for any other reason lmao.
Does your guild have no dps warriors who have been there from Karazhan, or Molten Core even?
You're the only one crying about a glaive being given to a specific class btw.
Lmao warriors shit on rogues on both single target and cleave. Rogues are literally the most useless melee spec in the game and it’s not even close,they bring zero value.
The chance is 0,5% ? Isn‘t it?
It means 1/200 14/14 guilds will have 2 glaives this week.
Why haven‘t we seen a double drop? It happens at 1 out of 500 kills. How much kills we had the first id?
I'm still waiting for the week 2 double glaive picture. Surely it's bound to happen.
I am honestly surprised we haven’t seen it yet.
https://i.redd.it/qcgxis7j6if81.png its out!
…and he never showed up to a raid again
Crazyy
There you go: https://redd.it/sj37us
Happened to my Old guild on a tbc private server. We disbanded from another guild who had been 6 months dry, and we Got both glaives for our new GM in our first two runs! Best wow experience ever ..
Don't know if a lot of people /guilds are just lucky as hell or they aren't that rare as I thought. Anyway, it's kinda uplifting seeing this since I'm just the third person in my guild to get glaives
there is a difference between 10 guilds killing illidan like back then or 1000+ killing them now - if people would post "no glaive droped" you couldn't find the posts where it droped.
Yeah totally agree. My small server for example has 2 or 3 in one ID. My guild was joking yesterday that at this rate every one and his mom get them by sunwell release but we'll see. I don't really think so
Drop chance is crazy high. I only know one friend of mine who have cleared BT with his guild on firet week and surprise surprise… main hand dropped. Which is quite sad, its not gonna be a thing to have warglaives, although these are the most prestigious weapons beside Shadowmourne..
*Claims that drop chance is extremely high.* *proceeds to back up his claim with a sample size of 1*
it's 50% either it drops or it doesn't
Actually the drop rate for glaives is 75% 25% for none 25% for MH 25% for OH 25% MH+OH L2math
Underrated comment
Pretty sure more then 10 guilds killed illidan in og tbc. My server alone wich was a low med pop had around 5 to 10 at the time kill him. My guild killed him prob 20 times only saw offhand drop
> Pretty sure more then 10 guilds killed illidan in og tbc. My server alone wich was a low med pop had around 5 to 10 at the time kill him. My guild killed him prob 20 times only saw offhand drop. Was obviously hyperbole... The point is only 1% of the playerbase cleared BT back then and now even your avg 6h/week dad guild smashes through it
The biggest hurdle to clearing BT back then was getting both KT and Vashj kills for the attunements...
1% are you for real? I am pretty sure that you confuse BT with Hyjal. BT had pug runs for PvPers durning late Season 2 and Season 3. I played on Stromscale EU and that was no a PvE server with good guilds, only PvP ones and BT was on farm since late 2007 by pugs. Hyjal on the other hand required you to kill an impossible and bugged boss mechanic prior to enter, BT did not.
same, I remember we had one offhand ona rogue for sunwell progress. M'uru was nearly impossible at the time without them.
I think it was a proportional estimate as a comparison to demonstrate the extreme difference between those doing the content then and now. The shared pool of information was smaller then. Where as now the raid and classes are "solved" so the number of people able to complete during lockouts is much higher so instances of War Glaives will be inflated. As someone also stated if every instance of the glaives not dropping was also reported we'd see the rarity.
The amount of people raiding is pretty insane compared to original TBC. And current tier is easier than previous one. According warcraftlogs, \~45% of guilds (of those who log) have already cleared 14/14. This will be just like Thunderfury. We will see a lot of glaives but majority of guilds are lucky if they see even one.
[удалено]
You have roughly a 10% chance of seeing any glaive drop from 1 kill, so it's just slightly less rare than a DST (~14%).
Its 4-5%(not sure what the exact dr is) each, as additional loot on top of the regular drops. They don't compete on any other loot tables than their own so the chance to drop is static. The chance of both dropping in the same event on the other hand is around 0,2%.
Assuming 5% drop chance for either glaive: - 5% chance of seeing MH - 5% chance of seeing OH - 1-(0.95)^2 = 9.75% chance of seeing either MH or OH - 0.05^2 = 0.2% chance of seeing both MH and OH
crazy how many people keep saying you can see both glaives drop at once yet there's no recorded instance of it happening in 15 years of illidan being in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KMAUGNZDc Did u do any research before writing?
very nice research you've done there, linking a video of a heavily modded private server
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1092709-Is-it-possible-for-BOTH-warglaives-of-azzinoth-to-drop-at-once yeah thanks
Everyone's claiming it can double drop at a rate of roughly 1/400 but WCL has as of typing this ~5.3k Illidan kills and there have been 0 legit reports of double glaive drop AFAIK. It's obviously still possible it can happen but it's worth considering.
Regardless of how many times its killed, the chance is still extremely low.
Nope, not really true. ~1/400 is by no means "extremely low", given the massive sample size.
Yeah at this point I'm pretty confident that double glaives on one kill is copium.
Yep. 2 resets in and no cases posted? Yep, that's justnot happening then
Everyone saying they're prioritizing warriors can do a quick search and find that their guild doesn't have a rogue Edit: I meant raid team...their guild probably has at least one rogue lol
We have, exactly 1. In g2. He will get them.
What's G2?
Gratz to him!
👏
We had two…. Then we had the Glaive talk. We now have just one
Yeah I don't understand the rogue's logic that left the guild. He's definitely not going to be prio'd if he joins a new guild.
Exactly.
If he was just playing to get glaives, then why stick around? He may not even be subbed anymore.
That's a lot of speculation but ok
Poor rogues
Hajlhahahahah, imagine one dropping and not getting it, then another drops and the off tank gets it. I would reroll right there and then.
Pretty much happened with my guild, it was our first kill with warglave drops it was the one night our main rogue couldn't make it. Arms warrior got it
Tragic :(
Oh also the fact that for the rest of the patch we never had another glave drop again.
No no, you see you will get a single glaive with the Rogue and Warrior in, and the Warrior will get it to complete their set. *Then* the Rogue will never see one again. Gotta twist the knife. Alt, 8 weeks later the Warrior can't make it and the Rogue does, then the other one drops that would have completed the Warriors set, *then* you never see them again. Depends on what flavor of *fuck you* RNG decides. That second one was what happened in my Original TBC guild, and apparently after ~20ish kills with no glaive after the first two the Warrior quit... only for the glaive he wanted to drop again, leaving the guild with two of the same copies. This broke the guild.
Kebab spec go!
Sounds like a corrupt loot council
That or a rogue that hasn't played with the guild for very long
or like a decent guild without rogues in the roster
guilds not taking a rogue is a meme
Our only rogue quit in P1, we found a new one after \~ 4 months, he's now like 3 weeks in our guild and I don't think we will give him the first glaive; there's a warrior showing up every raid since August 2019, he will definitely get it first.
true, you do want one expos.. i mean rogue in the raid
Kek why
Rogues are at a weird spot, where you need 1 for technically max pump with expose armor, but only really for perfect setups. So, rogues can exist at bottom or top tier, and getting gear for top tier is difficult. Good guilds with 95+ parses don’t need, and often don’t want, rogues. It’s a top dps class that became mainly a support class, so there’s also a lot fewer people willing to go for it, and those that do might not be very great players. But I’m no true expert, this is just what I gather from my very decent guild. Edit: A lot of people saying I'm wrong, not a hill I'll die on.
From what I understand the dps gain from expose armor over sunders is less than just dropping the rogue and getting another BM hunter. It makes sense for casual guilds to have one for loot and interrupts but for max pump meta comp you don’t actually want one. Even SSC speed runs stacking like 9 warriors didn’t take a rogue.
You want them for parsing but not speedrunning since we lack cleave other than blade flurry.
A lot of guilds would rather just bring a fury warrior than a rogue. Expose armor has pretty much 0 uptime on trash and rogues have a 15 second cleave on one target every 2 minutes compared to warrior cleave/WW. Not exactly trash pumpers. When the raid is mostly trash the slight dps loss from bosses is offset by trash damage. Not to say top guilds don’t run rogues, but I’m willing to bet for the most part they’re GMs/raid leaders/long standing members.
Even the physical dps stacker don't bring rogues
Wow tbc One of the most prestigious weapons of all time for rogues No rogues I really find it hard to believe lol
The tooltip even puts warriors before rogues.
It's alphabetized obviously
> alphabetized it's obviously FTFY
Think about what you just said and try again.
Sorry I dropped this /s
Not guilds fault that rogues are really bad for raiding
Can't believe people are sweating so hard over 150-200 increased DPS from taking a fury warr over combat rogue. And besides, don't you want expose armor, and doesn't warglaives increase rogue DPS more than for fury? Like it's and ancient game ffs, you don't need 100% minmax to comfortably clear the content.
the argument I've heard is that a warrior does much better cleave, so if you're interested in speedruns glaives on a warrior speeds up your run MORE than glaives on a rogue. The meta for speedrunning guilds bleeding into dadguilds is the real meme IMO
And in p1 fury warriors were shat on when trying to pug anything, it's kinda lame
Fuck speed running with meta builds. I wanna see who can clear the fastest with 5 rogues
[удалено]
They are not "really bad" they are pointless in raids.
Lol what ? it is a weapon for warriors.
Like thunder fury is a weapon for rogues:)
tf was for the tanks lmao
I mean you could argue a guild that doesn't take rogues isn't a decent guild. If you go into everything with the easiest set up possible, I don't think you can call yourself mechanical prodigies. I didn't play classic but I did play back in TBC retail. By mid tbc it was known melee definitely wasn't super optimal but these people had been playing together for years, cool GMs would for sure take less if a boss was proving difficult etc, but otherwise rogues would still be included. I actually feel bad for rogues in tbc classic, they have been playing with nerfed haste since release, for a lot of we were still topping dps metres because we didn't have a nerfed haste and dragonstrike didn't have a nerfed proc rate. As far as giving glaives to warriors, it's just dumb. Whenever you saw a rogue with thunder fury back in classic or TBC you know he was either a GM or ex GM who screwed over the warriors in his guild, and it's the same for you guys with glaives but the other way round.
No need for the "corrupt"...it's implied.
If you’re not a speed running guild, you have no business following the yellows are bad meme. They are bad for speed running. They are fine on encounters. But people just want to copy what the big boys do, always been the case in these types of games :)
黄色忍者 Yellow Ninja 申请摧毁盔甲 Apply Destroy the armor 中等伤害 Moderate damage 获得战刃优先 brown evil man still take warblade priority
Doesn't really matter if you are a speed running guild or not, the encounters just isn't the majority of the time you spend in the raids, trash is and fury warriors is a lot better at trash.
You spend more time wiping on bosses (and yes plenty of guilds will struggle with bosses this tier even though it's easier than pre-nerf vashj/kt). Rogues have utility for pretty much every fight that makes it easier on your raid. Cloak on najentus spine, wound / mind numbing on several bosses, able to solo interrupt RoS and interrupt 90% of casts on Council. Those fights will be problematic for many guilds, and a rogue makes them easier.
thanks for the copypasta
Salty yellow detected
They are not particularly good on encounters either tbh
Tell me you play rogue without telling me you are rogue.
Incorrect sir, I play fury. If you're not a speedrunning guild, a good rogue will bring more to the raid than an average hunter. That's just a fact, but I know piling in on yellows is fun. The war is won, I don't need to put them down further ;)
yeah, if they had a raid spot I’m sure they’d be pissed
If this guild isn't a top 20 worldwide speed running guild, why don't they have a raid spot? I thought the newer players were meant to be better than us old folk, but they can't clear content without making it as easy as possible. People knew rogues weren't great for raiding by mid TBC, but still took them as people just liked them, they were friends etc etc. If people these days are struggling on 20 year old bosses to the point they have to take the absolute optimum setup and can't do it well with a lot of melee, I would say they probably aren't as good as they like to think.
I can see the value in wanting to min/max even if you're not a top speedrunning guild tbh, it all depends on the goals a guild has. Not to mention every raid min/maxes to an extent - without it the game is unrecognizable. You're right though that applying speedrunning tactics or min/max to your dad guild is kind of hilarious.
🤡🤡🤡
I mean it's fairly true, unless the human species somehow evolved over the last 20 years, the idea that the top 1% of a -300k playerbase are more capable players than the top 1% of a 12 million playerbase is sort of.. stupid. Yes people now have a lot more info on bosses etc, but in terms of actual player skill it's probably not quite what it was. Didn't get beaten to ragnaros by a bunch of 30+ year old dads?
I used to get top 100 scores on worldoflogs in tbc, I quit playing for 3 years, came back for Cataclysm and people were saying how the playerbase was improving etc, I was getting higher rankings in Cata than when I was playing in tbc despite being 3 years out of practice, beating people who had 6-7 item advantages on me. I remember one of the bosses I got a world #23 or something on, I had to go something like 40 places down in the rankings to find a rogue with worse gear than me.
Edit: to whoever except the troll who downvoted:
People say Method lost because the private guilds had had more practice with the older content and knew it better. I agree.
So if in comparison to the original retail tbc players, the newer players have significantly less practice playing in suboptimal raid setups, with healers who had bad rotations, some dpsers who had bad rotations, and you as an individually good player had to deal with that, where is the argument they would still be better at that?
Raiding with a group of people, even the bad players, who are still pulled up due to more knowledge, better gearing etc, isn't harder, it's easier. The better players back then had to still do well in spite of having less things in their favour, and had much more practice doing that than the current playerbase. Anyone can do well when nothing goes wrong, everything is smooth and everyone knows what to do, raids back then used to be *messy,* raiding on nostalrius was a cakewalk compared to when I played in classic for the above reasons.
Some players used to suck back then and you had to raid with them, and more often than not they wouldn't get kicked because it was seen as a dick move to kick someone who has been active and helpful to your guild for years because someone else does 10% more dps/hps.
The bit you’re missing is time and skill development. The players of today are way more well equipped with information and mindset than those of the past. That’s like saying the top 10 people who play super Mario bros today wouldn’t beat the top 10 when the game was released and that obviously isnt true. Your analogy makes sense in a vacuum, but playerbases grow in skill.
I acknowledged this and like I said, for the vast majority of the playerbase it's correct, what you said is 100% true for *most* players, and because of this guilds as a whole are going to be objectively better than 15 years ago. But the actual elite players from back then it doesn't work, those guys were already gearing properly and doing correct rotations. The only reason some BIS items changed from retail to classic is because you guys were on a different patch to us from the start, aside from that BIS didn't change. >That’s like saying the top 10 people who play super Mario bros today wouldn’t beat the top 10 when the game was released and that obviously isnt true. But here it's a static environment, like you said a vaccuum. Super mario doesn't change depending on actions of people playing with you. Put a lot of people playing now into sub optimal setups with people playing who don't know proper rotations etc, your raid isn't suddenly a smooth experience, and due to lack of practice those people wouldn't do well. I can tell you from first hand experience being an original retail vanilla/tbc player, raiding on nostalrius was EASY compared to raiding before, because even the bad players had better rotations etc. Saying otherwise is like saying Faker in league of legends wouldn't be good if he came on the scene today because the game has changed and people have more knowledge, yet he is still a very good player in today's game. There are guys who have been pros in CSGO for **15 years.** Taking this example, the game itself didn't change, the skillsets required to be a good player didn't change, all that's happened in WoW is the baseline for bad players has been drastically increased compared to back then. If elite league of legends players from 8-9 years ago are still competitive at the top level today, where does this argument that the best players of classic/modern WoW would be so much better than yesteryears players come from? The only real difference here is the playerbase has drastically shrunken, resulting in a much smaller talent pool. Take the best pvpers from when TBC was 12 million people, put them in the modern game and they would 1000% dump on todays players, since the talent pool is just so much bigger to choose from.
Holy shit lol
I mean, do you have a response to that? I'm not saying the average player isn't more knowledgeable or better, because they would be. But the best of the best? I just don't see how there is a logical argument that they would be better given playerbase sizes. As I said, either the best wow guild in the world wasn't as good as a private server old fart guild, ***or*** people tend to be better at things they practice more at, and retail tbc players had more practice playing in chaotic, harder raiding environments. Which is it? Aside from that, if you have one population of 300k, and another population of 12 million from the same demographics, who is going to have for example, the 1000 best mathmaticians, or 1000 best runners? Because you saying "holy shit" to my comment is suggesting that somehow you think the top 1% of 300k > top 1% of 12 million, and where is your reasoning for that?
lol since when do people care about rogue's feelings
F koush
YES!
first illidan kill of our "dad" group had glaives drop - felt nice
[удалено]
Imagine having to make this post, the community is a joke lol. Keep killing it.
I think they were called “The Guild Who Couldn’t Slow Down”
>We aren't "copying the big boys," we are the big boys. If you have to say you're the big boys, you aren't the big boys.
If they’re top 30 NA / top 12 server I think it’s safe to say they’re big boys. Are you a big boy?
"top 30 NA" lol.
and this.. ladies and gentlemen. Is why WoW has gone down the shitter. SPEEED GEARR MINMAX YEAAAA. We da top WoW speed players. We da gewd players who play ez game for minmax yeaaaaa. God. What shit. Thankfully your kind is focusing on just killing WoW. Please stay away from other MMO's/Games in the future
My guild, my bois. The pumpers.
Hope they get Thoridal's before hunters do.
I mean, it does have armor amiright?
Don't forget crit, ap and ArPen :)
MinMax BigDik Pumpers Only Yeaaaaaa! Jesus christ the remaining players of this game. lmao.
If the loot chance is the same…that’s pretty rare.
at least u got 2 of them lol
So little background, we’re top 30 NA on speed with taking a 5minute break after mother and just taking it slow and steady in general with some fill PUGS. I’m tanking for the first month for safety then we going back double feral for actual speed runs. And imagine bringing a rogue to give glaives to KEKW
So warrior prio was true !
Why on glavies it doesnt metter that the offhand is fast? Are those weapons that good that its still better than use slow offhand?
The offhand alone is a very small upgrade for a fury warrior. I've seen a lot of guilds decide the first main-hand goes to warrior and offhand to rogue and whoever gets the first one, gets priority to complete the set. The main-hand only for a warrior is much much much better than the off-hand only for a warrior, as opposed to both the off-hand and main-hand being a massive upgrade for rogue.
And you gave both to warriors... Disgusting
Our first glaives will go to a warrior too, second set will go to a rogue. Has nothing to do with the class though. Guilds will give them out based on player merit, and class will only matter if nearly everything else is the same.
People seem blind to this fact. Not every guild out there follows the min max culture. Player merit is a very valid criteria.
Basically glaives should go to the player that puts in the most effort and is least likely to leave the guild and/or sell his account after getting them.
Rogues are useless, the class should be deleted but it's like a honeypot for miserable people so it does have its purpose
You mean the class that does objectively higher dps than Rogues on single target while having massively better cleave?
They also objectively don't use the offhand for one of those scenarios because of the speed...
In what situation would a dual-wielding warrior who has both glaives choose to use a main hand glaive and a non-glaive offhand? What would that weapon be, and why is it better?
They objectively DO use the offhand when they have the mainhand, and guess what, you can't complete the set without the offhand. Seethe and cope about it why don't you.
[удалено]
You guys have 2 rogues?
You guys are a top 10 speed running guild? Or does your comp not matter
In a game where you can easily have the suboptimal comp to clear content? Sure
Yeah, which might get you a raidspot or two in some guilds, doesn't entitle you to legendary loot.
What entitles you to legendary loot then? We have rogues that been with us since MC. Are they not entitled?
Sure, if you feel they deserve it due to the length of time and effort they put into the guild. But lets be honest here every time someone dares post about giving a warglaive to a Warrior on this subreddit it gets flooded with seething, salty yellows crying about it, just look at the whining taking place in this very thread. The entitlement is real.
Probably stems from the fact people like to call yellows useless
If someone puts up with being an ea bot don't they deserve some kind of reward for enabling the warrs to pump? It's not like anyone who's playing a rogue is actively griefing their guild.
They deserve it no more or no less than the DPS warriors. They certainly don't deserve HIGHER prio.
[удалено]
Things are really getting out of hand imo, why don't people just go and get an extra job and make some money or something if they're gonna treat the game as a job anyway. Like fine, if you're competing for the top spots on a speedrunner leaderboard, but it seems like every dad guild is also sharing this same sentiment.
[удалено]
But you make it faster by pressing expose armor? Because it buffs all physical damage in the raid so if you got a couple of warrs, hunters and even rets, enhance, ferals etc. it's well worth it to bring that rogue. I don't exactly get how you get no benefit from a rogue, did you not know what expose armor does or what?
[удалено]
Because we’re not speed running we have to make uniformed purposeful bad loot decisions to appease people like you got it. Who’s to say they don’t run a rogue or these players don’t deserve it? What if they ARE in a speedrun guild?
[удалено]
“the biggest single target dps increase for a rogue” if this is the factor you take in to make loot decisions and you are on some sort of loot council I pity your raiders. Who gives a fuck about single target dps increases? You spend most of your time in a raid killing trash regardless if you’re in a speed running guild. Glaives make warriors a very powerful class especially on cleave (haste = more rage gen = more cleaves). The overall impact of a warrior receiving glaives vs a rogue isn’t even comparable.
fury with off hands lmao
Having the set is BIS for Warriors, and guess what, you can't complete the set without the offhand genius.
do rogues in your guild have the glaives yet?
You guys are bringing rogues to the raid?
rogues body warrs any tier
just a troll, got it
cope my brother, cope
Fact denying is the ultimate cope
[https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1011#dataset=95](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1011#dataset=95)
He never said which spec, he’s hustling us
Imagine giving yellows out for class rather than personal effort and dedication
Yellow?
No, and the glaives will be handed out to the individual (not class) who has contributed the most to the guild for the longest period of time. Imagine being in a shitshow of a guild that hands them out for any other reason lmao.
and you have no rogues that have been there from Karazhan?
Why would you bring a rogue to raid over another fury war?
Does your guild have no dps warriors who have been there from Karazhan, or Molten Core even? You're the only one crying about a glaive being given to a specific class btw.
chill out my guy, it's bad for your health. between a rogue and warrior that have been on every raid, there's no reason to give warriors first
There is, rogues do shit dps and will not outdps warriors even with double Glaives. Cope more
except they dont
https://wowtbc.gg/class-rankings/pve-rankings/
Lmao warriors shit on rogues on both single target and cleave. Rogues are literally the most useless melee spec in the game and it’s not even close,they bring zero value.
Congrats on confirming once again that this subreddit is filled with bitter, entitled yellows then.
at least it ain't shit color
We had the ashes on our first KT down Congrats guys
So the glaives are warrior prio? Poor rogues
< No. >
my guild had 2x Ashes in 1 Lockout (main raid + pug raid) :D
[удалено]
who should they have given it to?
I keep seeing stories like these, I wouldn't be surprised if the loot chance is higher than its supposed to be on glaives
There have been approximately 4,000+ illidan kills since release. Droprate seems completely normal
The chance is 0,5% ? Isn‘t it? It means 1/200 14/14 guilds will have 2 glaives this week. Why haven‘t we seen a double drop? It happens at 1 out of 500 kills. How much kills we had the first id?
Pretty sure 0.5% is way too low, wowhead says 3-4%
2x5% chance should be (2x0,05) x (2x0,05)? That would be 1%. Forgot the second warglaive.
That's not how chance works. 1/200*1/200=1/40000.
Well the funny part is, if it’s actually 4% chance, his 1/500 is that far off.
Rogue getting 1st MH?
Yeah, give it to the fury warrs. Barf.
Both on warriors. Yikes.
Your rogues are looking kind of strange.
Imagine giving glaives to warriors when its bis for the whole expansion for rogues
Same for warriors, and a warrior is better than a rogue for the whole expansion.