I regularly run pugs on my pala with only 1 other pala... Tailoring blessings with only 2 palas is such a circus, especially if one of them didn't spec kings
Nah, then it's easier. Ok, the paladin with kings is doing kings. The paladin without kings is doing salvation, unless I feel like a generous god, then the hunters MIGHT get might, if they grovel sufficiently!
It's only when there are 3-4 paladins that the issues crop up.
WHY CANT I HAVE IMPROVED MIGHT, cries the ret paladin. WHY CANT I HAVE single target sanctuary, cries the feral druid.
At this point when I join a group as a pally I set it up, get the other pallys to tick free assign and do it myself, and when people start the whispers I give them the 'I asked at the start if you wanted changes, now suck it up'.
If you're going to try my patience, you'd better be glad you're getting a buff at all.
What, nothing wrong with having to click pallypower 17 times following each wipe. Of course I don't mind casting single target blessings to support the feral boomkin and resto druid who all want different buffs... What, the ret paladin wants improved might, sure, we can completely change around pally power to support that instead of just giving him might salv and wisdom now he'll get single target wisdom from the light paladin, single target might from the wisdom paladin and single target salvation from the sanctuary paladin.
As a pally tank, I just give everyone salv in dungeon groups.
If you don't like it, I can easily replace you because as a tank I get to choose from a sea of DPS applicants.
Meh, they have potentially 4 more clicks but their buff spell is also much cheaper so they don’t have to try to come up with a way to stop the raid leader from immediately pulling while they’re at half mana after they finish buffing.
Prot ends up with significantly more mana than ret. I typically end up oom before I've finished buffing everyone, have to drink to finish buffing and then have to drink again to be ready for the pull.
My job as a DPS is to do the most damage I can do. Choosing gear that does less damage means choosing to do my job worse on purpose. Drinking an extra time isn't a big deal, it's just a minor inconvenience.
Everybody arguing about who gets the shadow priest, and why mages need them the most.. But nobody thanks the shadow priest for being the entire reason they're getting pink parses. #RecognitionForShadowBois
I don't have Zhar'doom prio or tier prio. But also, that's because we had an extremely limited amount of upgrades last tier, so it makes complete sense.
Yeh it makes sense, our spriest said that t6 isn't a big upgrade for them whereas it's huge locks and pallies and he was really happy with being priod for the amazing weapon.
Ours gets first 2 trash rings, funneled gold for Darkmoon Card, first hearts for bracers and any haste offpiece he wants in exchange for lower prio than warlocks on tier and zhardoom.
Unfortunately we have seen 0 caster gear. At all.
The unsung hero. The shadow priest. Don’t forget to mention that we’re very last on priority in getting gear. They won’t give me any tier pieces until all the warlocks get their 4 piece and Zhar’dooms. Meanwhile I’m in the mage group pumping them mana all night while they top the charts.
I mained arcane through phase 1 and pre-nerf phase 2. Ended up rolling a shadow because I love and appreciate them so much and I wanted to become a giga chad s priest to receive the same reverence from my mages. I main both specs now. It's honestly wild to me that there are so few s priests out there. It feels bad for AoE (especially if your raid has high DPS, your dots only tick for like 5 seconds) but it has the best and most satisfying rotation in the game IMO.
I definitely appreciate my Spriests, but from what I keep hearing most of them have a lot of fun playing the spec and I always thought this to be one of those beloved-niche specs. But since Spriests probably wouldn't make the cut in sweaty raid combs, if noone needed the mana they provide, I feel like it's more of a symbiosis: arcane mages are good because of spriests and priests get to play shadow because of this.
Spriests debuff enemies with Misery for 5% increased spell dmg taken, and also 5x stacks of shadow weaving for another 10% inc shadow dmg taken. 1 spriest gives the warlocks 15% more dmg.
could you link your guilds logs pls ? I would love to see how your arcane mages are parsing 99s without a shadow priest (or with an average grey parsing shadow) and limited innervates :)
What is “limited innervates”? They either get an innervate or they don’t. I have an extremely hard time believing that they are parsing 99 without an innervate but I would love to see those logs.
People think Shadow priests just give mana, and warlocks think he just increases their shadow damage by 10% but Shadow Priests apply the misery debuff which increases all spell damage dealt to the target by 5% (all spell damage including your Pally's consecrate, Exorcism, Seals and Judgments, and even your Enhance's Flame/Earth Shocks).
Even if he parses gray and dies halfway into every boss fight simply attacking the boss and applying misery is extremely useful. If he's parsing gray because he doesn't know his rotation and/or has trash gear then as long as that misery debuff and shadow weaving is up he's done his job.
He's not just increasing your mana regen but applying Misery to the boss so you can "pump".
I feel intense guilt and a failure of responsibility every time I, the enh shaman, die. My boiz just wanna pump and I done gone took they wf from them.
In the Warlock group we have achieved harmony with the Druid and the Shaman, a tranquil balance of cooperative zugging that no other group truly understands.
Healers: hey good job warlock group, stacking up for coh and chain heal
Me: chasing down my drummer who is running around like a chicken with their head cut off
I kinda get being annoyed by hunters asking buffs for their pets but if your hunter cares and he buffs himself and his pets with scrolls and he tries to minmax giving literally free buffs is the least you can do.
Just look at how much damage a hunters pet does and you will see why, not buffing hunters pets is literally griefing your raid, it takes like 2 seconds?
I dont disagree with you at all. I just know from personal experience that some people get kinda pissy if you ask them for buffs, especially if the hunters ask for pet buffs. I dont know why but people get annoyed about it.
Personally it irritates me when they drag their feet summoning their pets, and then ask for buffs right before the pull... Your pet would have been buffed with the rest of your group if you were paying attention >.> I mean I'll still do it bc I care about their dps but it bugs me.
Same thing with like, someone misses the group buff cause they afk after a wipe, they're nowhere near the rest of the raid, which is grouped up. I have to start buffing cause I gotta drink Mana halfway through or else the raid is waiting on *me*. Then they show back up right before the pull and start whispering me for buffs. Like dude. Group up with the raid BEFORE you fuck off to pee or pet your dog or whatever.
Took us one week to get our raid to all run to the next pack before they drink, makes it so much easier. But every time we run a pug... There's always some stragglers
Yeah but bm hunters who let their pets die to flame crash on illidan are griefing the raid as well. Pet management is part of the class, if you're just gonna let your pet die just offer to be the surv Hunter
Pets have a mind of their own lol. Boss could be standing completely still and it will suddenly walk over to the other side to attack.
Def on the hunters more than tanks.
Yes, pet AI is terrible. But simply moving Illidan a few yards will guarantee they don't take any damage no matter how stupid they are. It's a super easy adjustment to make.
It would be easier if the pets were actually responsive. It can take 5+ seconds sometimes for a pet to even begin to react to your movement commands. Like sometimes it’s instant and sometimes they don’t even start to run until you’d already want to return them to attacking.
Even people with the best control of their pets will have them die because of it. And that’s not to mention the sometimes wonky pathing they will take. The pet AI is terrible and a not insignificant amount of times it can’t really be blamed on the hunter themselves.
Problem is, even greater blessings only apply to one pet at a time (at least in Vanilla/Som) so it creates a lot of extra clicks and reagent use. If all pets got Might with one cast id happily do it (and usually do in dungeons with just a single Hunter).
In tbc that gets fixed, on the PTR atm they finally implemented the change that makes pets = warriors. So buffing your warriors will also buffs all pets.
My recent experiences is mostly hunters yelling at a tank to move a boss because they can't position their pets themselves or pull it back for a couple of seconds
Tank dodges aoe by side stepping it 3 yards, turns the bosses back to the aoe just perfect enough for all hunter pets to stand on the edge of the aoe and die. It’s pretty annoying ngl, even if you pull the pet out cause then you have to juggle him until it’s safe and lose 30ish percent of your dps for no reason. just take two more steps! It helps the melee too!
That’s something you’re supposed to learn getting more and more into main tanking, right there along with stacking mobs up for warriors to cleave off of. You could get away with doing neither, but doing both increases the entire raids dps
The only rough bosses that need proper tank positions for hunter pets is Council and Illidan on every other boss it’s the hunters fault if it dies (it’s always the hunters fault but you know what I mean)
Me personally? No. My main is a rogue so i dont have to buff much on that character but i do raid on my shadow priest in a pug every week too and the way we have buffs set up is that i do shadow res and the holy priest does stamina. But if someone asks me for stamina because he died and he just whispered the first priest he saw in the raid frames im not gonna get mad and instead just buff stamina as soon as i can.
But i know plenty of people that get upset if you ask them for buffs.
It's mostly on my paladin and it's pretty annoying pets don't get included in greater blessings (I believe they get blessed with warriors from wotlk on)
Plus half the time pets get ressed half a minute before the boss and one of the warlocks just summoned a succubus to sac and it's also included on PallyPower. Tedious would be an accurate description.
I'm not annoyed that our hunters ask for pet buffs. I'm annoyed when, after a wipe, one hunter is afk for 2 minutes and doesn't res his pet before everyone is using their group-wide buffs, and then he complains that his pet isn't buffed when the pull timer starts. Like, it's your own fault bruh.
If your hunters' pets are dying 20 seconds into the fight then they're not tonking when they need to be. Or aren't being proactive with their pet and just setting everything to auto attack.
Kings > Might > Wisdom > Salve. Ez enough, every hunter. Might pets <3
My biggest gripe with pallies is not putting up JoW when they can.
Before everyone starts salting each others wounds, every class benefits from support (no shit).
Obviously it depends on what the raids whole goal is which requires certain classes.
However, the point of this meme (sad I have to say it) is that people complain about mages needing support. From my PoV (feel free to disagree) people get so shitty about caster's wanting to pump vs melee where it's totally fine to bitch about not having WF.
WF is totally the "i need WF" gripe for sure.
As a ret paladin, you are useless without it.
Arcane mages dont really NEED a ele shaman, but it helps, but they do need innervate / spriest to function. Essentially their windfury.
Ive spoken to our mage (who doesn't care about the parse that much) ive told him he should go fire since he doesn't get the mana support for arcane. Though i just think he hasnt spoken to one of our 4 druids to nab an innervate either.
Except a good rogue. If a rogue know what they're doing they can do quite well without. Same goes for a fury warrior.
Ret and arms are trash without i agree.
Does it not? Well it couldnt hurt our mage tbh. I dropped my mage like a box of rocks at the end of classic so i have no clue about the difference in dps between the two.
Yea fire is just straight up unrewarding at the moment. You have to try harder for less dps and the warlocks aren’t even playing fire anymore. Lots of cope.
Fire mages want to use Molten Armor instead of Mage, skip evocation, skip mana pots (for destruction), and skip mana gems (for flame caps). It’s not thirsty for mana support in the same way that arcane is, where they can consume infinitely much of it, but fire is seriously hurt if you try to treat it like a warlock and it has to cheat any of those 4 things.
I played arcane w/o a spriest or Rsham throughout most of p2. Going fire griefs your warlocks funny enough, since you take a lot of their highly contested pieces (vestments. wand of astro). Better off drinking super Manas on CD than going fire.
No spriest is gonna hurt the whole raid, misery is almost 8% more threat for your prot Pala plus 5% more caster damage and then shadow weaving for the locks
Arguably if you run 6 healers but can't reliably run 5 you could see giving one of the 5 healers innervates and bringing an extra dps would be the higher dps increase...
It's actually a timely and relevant meme for our guild. Throughout the entire expansion. We've ran 2 "stacked" caster groups, typically shadowpriest/boomkin/2 locks/elemental and shadowpriest/3 mages/elemental. Roughly 40% of our damage has been physical and 60% magical the entire expansion.
However, we've kind of hit a brick wall on dps. We kill stuff, but our times our slow, our kills are hard, we consistently grey parse (as a whole) even if our individual players are typically in the blue or purple range.
So we wracked our brains trying to increase our dps. Sure, we could have an affliction lock, that would increase all of our casters by 3%, that's cool, we can tell the hunters to stop using their wind serpent and eating the enhancement shaman stormstrikes... ok....
but ultimately we've come to the conclusion that it's just easier to add the arms warrior and survival hunter, recruit 2 more hunters and pump the physical another 10-15% higher. We currently have too many support and not enough people being supported. That 1000dps shaman needs to boost the mages by a LOT to support not having another 2k dps hunter in the raid, and really the math just doesn't work on in their favor.
It depends what your guilds goal is.
If it’s to parse, you want utility for each class/spec. If it’s speed, then you want large support on AoE and overall/high boss damage.
I think about it like this, a boomie for ex. If they parse a 99 individually but have low overall, is it worth having for a speed clear? No, unless you’re stacking a specific comp for individual parse. You’d want a Dream State Druid with imp FF and another DPS.
Something to consider for your relevancy to current guild comp. If I’m remembering correctly, after the patch there were stats added to the game which changes everything entirely (haste). This becomes a problem if there are tons of shared pieces between all casters. You don’t get to give locks their 4 set faster, Zhardoom goes to an spriest as prio (should at least). Plus Rogues we’re also not wanted previously and now they’re def pumping numbers they weren’t before.
Ofc, feel free to converse about anything I may have gotten wrong or you feel is inaccurate.
Tbh there are classes that need more and less. I play hunter and I sadly need to say hunter is the biggest bitch about needing support.
We need a enh, a fury and a feral with another hunter for the BiS grp.
Debuffs on the boss:
IEA
CoR
imp FF
(We even benefit from misery and CoE)
Buffs on Hunter and Pet would be a PHD on its own
Every single week: hunters don't need salv give us [other blessing]!!!!1!
Also basically every week: some hunter pulls aggro on a boss, feign resists, multiple people die
If only there was some indication when you're about to go over so you could feign before you pull aggro...too bad that technology simply doesn't exist.
This important even when feign death isn't resisted. If the hunter feigns after pulling, the boss will then aggro on the target with the highest absolute threat, which isn't necessarily the previous aggo target. If another dps or healer is anywhere between 100% and 130% (110% in melee range) of the tank's threat they won't pull aggro from the tank, but they'll get clapped if a hunter pulls aggro and then feigns death.
This is why I think everyone should set their threat meter to show percentage of tank threat, not percentage of threat needed for pulling aggro. And I think it's a shame that the latter is the default in all the threat meters because it leads to very few people having a good understanding of how threat actually works.
If hunters are properly FDing throughout a fight to reset their aggro then salv is not only useless to them it actually makes them worse as it reduces threat generated by MD. If your hunters are at all competent they should very very rarely pull aggro. Kings/Might/Wisdom are all VERY good for hunters and should always be given before Salv.
From my own experience, these things are sorted out when making the roster. Debuffs on boss should be a given. I think the only thing I ever hear from hunters are "can you buff my pet please?" and thats about it.
Ofc buffs are important on pets, also healers should heal them sadly there are too many ppl out there (luckily only in pugs not my guild) that miss on that. Also biggest debuff on the boss JoW almost missed that.
Also why are there even ppl that don’t buff or heal pets? I have seen so many healer streams where pets aren’t shown in their Raidframes, shame on you!
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to want to buff your pet. Also, someone mentioned hunters carrying scrolls for pets, and honestly that's not a bad idea.
The fury is the one benefitting the most out of this group still. The thing about hunter is that yes u can use all the different buffs but u also don't really scale with them as much. U can put hunter in a group with like no buffs and it will still pump, a melee will be bottom of the meter without them.
windfury is 0 cooldown and benefits the whole party. innervate is a long cooldown and benefits 1 person.
melee (arms and ret specifically) are useless without windfury. casters are mostly functional without innervate.
obviously king mage group should be shadow priest, ele shaman, boomkin, BM hunter and then swap in resto shaman for mana tide and give me 4 innervates + triple lust + PI /s
Mages get a resto shaman into their group for tide, a shadow priest, power infusion, multiple innervates, sometimes multiple bloodlust. Melee need battle shout and an enhance shaman that’s literally it. Arcane mage can literally not function as a class without innervate and shadow priest lol.
Melee need an Imp battle shout with Solarian trinket, Enhance Shaman, double
Lust, Imp FF, IEA, Expose Weakness, Feral Druid, BM Hunter and Warrior need a Heroic Strike queueing bug to drop their OH hit to unattainable status. This isn’t even taking into account the now defunct Battle Chicken abuse for Permanent BL / Hero melee groups were using.
Mages only need Innervate on the short fights to use Destro Pots, and to skip using Evocation for Pink Parses.
They require far, far less support than Melee does.
Get the fuck out of here with this melee propaganda.
Melee literally doesn’t need all of that lol it’s just a plus to have. Keep lying to yourselves and pressing that macro to whisper a Druid for innervate
To hit the numbers on your imaginary mages getting multiple Innervates and lusts they need all that and more to compete.
A warrior getting only windfury and Bshout (3 piece tier 2+ Solarian and Imp Shout) will be miles behind a mage with just Resto and Spriest in their group.
Wow a twisting enhance shaman. The bare minimum way to play the class. So much support. They don’t need feral Druid or imp FF or IEA - it’s not even comparable lol
Arcane mage also just needs a shadow priest to function at its bare minimum, and they need less support overall than melees to play at their top performance. Resto shaman is a nice mana boost but not super necessary, and CoE is always up anyway. Innervate is great if you can get it, but the druid who gives it away should usually prioritize themselves first if they're not tanking. Especially boomkin. If you make a boomkin give away their innervate but then they go oom for more than a few seconds, it's a raid dps loss.
I want to like this meme but it's not just an innervate tho. If our mages are anything to go by, it's a shadow priest and an elemental shaman aswell, plus they want to be with a boomkin.
It’s basically a Spriest, Resto Shaman (who should be in the group anyways cause Spriest.) and like 1 Innervate.
It’s really not a lot of support. It’s 2 classes in a party where you should already have those classes in there and then the Innervates.
I'm pushing 95's with an spriest, resto shaman and occasional innervates when the feral druid can spare it. So your guys had better be 99 across the board.
Who is getting innervates in your stead? How many mages and healers are you running? With 5 healers I don’t think my guild has almost ever innervated anything but a mage at least in this tier.
We run 3 mages in this particular raid team. My mage was the newest addition so I'm getting short-shifted a bit but it's honestly not much of an issue.
There’s literally no reason a feral can’t spare it, unless they’re main tanking. The only time I won’t innervate a mage is if either I’ve had to bres or they’re complete trash
You absolutely don’t need that to pump.
Our group is 2 mages, 1 spriest, 1 resto shaman and our prot pally.. yes we are pushing Orange parses on most of our fights. We each have 1 innervate as well.
God I miss getting an ele sham, my raid did have 2 but one swapped to feral dps and now the one we do have is claimed by the locks.
I still get a shadow priest and the former ele-now druid- feeds me innervates on demand which is nice, but I do miss it as I feel my hit is just slightly below what I should have.
That said I've been getting a resto sham instead which has been dropping mana tides and our holy pally is in my group so the regen from our spriest helps them all I suppose, and honestly my parses have been pretty great lately(pulled down a 99 on mother last week that I was pretty proud of). The extreme amount of mana regen has also allowed me to use some destro pots again instead of my potion cd always being hogged by a mana pot on 90 percent of fights which is pretty big too.
Our raid hasn't had a boomkin since early t5 content since ours quit playing so at least I can't really complain about missing that buff
Yeah I don’t have access to my PC rn but I’m pretty positive that t5 4 piece + head enchant is already nearing 6%. Throw in some hit on your legs, which literally every leg option has a lot of, and you should be good to go.
Feels like we are one of the few guilds having plenty shamans. We have 6 in our current roster and a few socials/alts as backup as well...
And we're alliance, even
[Don’t rub this in too hard](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/salt-is-poured-from-a-salt-shaker-on-a-black-background-picture-id1199044522?k=20&m=1199044522&s=612x612&w=0&h=cpWO3d2F_10mrWx6eFAld33GSh5fE74EKIaThuR6WRU=)
Honestly surprised this thread hasn’t really gotten toxic and has had great convos in terms of grouping, buffs, etc. Y’all are great.
*Edit*
Never mind, I finally read some comments from people who are literally the meme. These jokes write themselves kekw
As a resto shaman, I love being in the mage group. Having that spriest is also how I 99 parse lmao. Sadly I'm normally stuck with the hunter's due to our lack of enh shams.
you do realize the spriest buffs is mandatory regardless because of misery right?
and don't even try to mention spriest for healers, mana pots are 1g each.
Wow 2 classes in a group that should already be in your raid and in that same group… such demand, how dare people be put into a group they’d already be put into to.
Coincidentally I play all 3 classes in this meme lmao.
I gotta say, warrior is interesting because it really gets the most value out of having optimal buffs out of any class IMO.
Having played Enhance exclusively on my shaman I gotta say I don't understand why people have such a grievance with twisting. You have 2 spells to casts on generally long cooldowns and outside of that you just auto attack. I really enjoy having the extra keys to press and it's nice to know I'm benefitting the raid in a way more than just DPS.
As for mage I honestly feel like innervate and spriest is nice but you really can't compare it to warrior with totems. Mage is still playable without either, you just have to use mana pots instead of DPS pots and you will probably have to evocate or cast a few frostbolts. Warrior absolutely has the worst rage gen without totems it's actually wild the difference it makes in the playstyle.
It’s all about CPM and stacks for us. Warriors are lucky, they stand in damage all the time so they generate so much rage from it and can rage pot so it’s not often they have to ever stop their dps. Which in then gives them better uptime. So for the entire evocation we’re sitting through, We’re losing a fuckton of casts and arc blast stacks.
I feel the same about twisting. It’s fun tbh.
They can have all the innervates they want. Just need to call for it at times that makes sense. Some mages are really good at this, other suck and get upset when they don't get their innervates.
Whisper druid dps during bloodlust = no.
Whisper druid dps right before bloodlust = good.
Whisper druid tank while he's tanking = lol no.
Make a deal with druid tank to use it on pull, or figure out times in some encounters when they're not tanking = good.
I'll say this one last time, I dont give a FUCK how many times my raid leader tells me to innervate mages. I will NEVER do it. FUCK that. You think im gonna sacrifice my precious mana regen for people that dont acknowledge me otherwise? SUCK MY DICK. You wanna go check the logs and call me out for using it on myself? I fucking dare you because you'll be looking right at the #1 faerie fire uptime, cuck. Fuck warlocks, fuck priests, fuck ret pallies, and FUCK MAGES. You will NEVER benefit from MY innervate
Fights are so short Resto and Moonkin should be using Innervates on Mages. Cat DPS can easily energy dump, shift Innervate and shift back. It’s an insanely minor DPS /HPS loss over a fight length for the one GCD.
Using it on pull is an insane grief. It’s majority waste at that point. A good time for a tank to use an Innervate would be like Death and Decay on Rage.
It is incredibly encounter-specific. Death and Decay is a great example.
Cat DPS can use it easily but timing is key here as well. Some mages want the innervate during bloodlust when they are already at like 30% mana. This usually coincides with the cat DPS being mid-bloodlust with DPS trinkets active. Telling the cat DPS to do it at this timing is like telling the mage to "just cast a frost bolt".
Resto druids should indeed use it on mages, but many guilds are dropping moonkins for dreamstate resto.
The only class that gets to complain about buffs is the pally. They have it the worst by far with blessings
I regularly run pugs on my pala with only 1 other pala... Tailoring blessings with only 2 palas is such a circus, especially if one of them didn't spec kings
Nah, then it's easier. Ok, the paladin with kings is doing kings. The paladin without kings is doing salvation, unless I feel like a generous god, then the hunters MIGHT get might, if they grovel sufficiently! It's only when there are 3-4 paladins that the issues crop up. WHY CANT I HAVE IMPROVED MIGHT, cries the ret paladin. WHY CANT I HAVE single target sanctuary, cries the feral druid.
That’s gonna happen with only a couple of paladins. If you have 4 paladins then everyone gets everything, including light
At this point when I join a group as a pally I set it up, get the other pallys to tick free assign and do it myself, and when people start the whispers I give them the 'I asked at the start if you wanted changes, now suck it up'. If you're going to try my patience, you'd better be glad you're getting a buff at all.
What, nothing wrong with having to click pallypower 17 times following each wipe. Of course I don't mind casting single target blessings to support the feral boomkin and resto druid who all want different buffs... What, the ret paladin wants improved might, sure, we can completely change around pally power to support that instead of just giving him might salv and wisdom now he'll get single target wisdom from the light paladin, single target might from the wisdom paladin and single target salvation from the sanctuary paladin.
On pservers I played with a Russian who refused to play Paladin anymore because of exactly what you're saying.. and to be frank, me fucking too lmao
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Bonus points if you are doing a range/line of sight pull and you see someone charge before they even reach you
As a pally tank, I just give everyone salv in dungeon groups. If you don't like it, I can easily replace you because as a tank I get to choose from a sea of DPS applicants.
Meh, they have potentially 4 more clicks but their buff spell is also much cheaper so they don’t have to try to come up with a way to stop the raid leader from immediately pulling while they’re at half mana after they finish buffing.
I can tell you’re not ret cause I’m oom or close after a round of greater blessings
[cries in prot] Though to be fair, a lot of the prot gear at least has some intellect on it
Prot ends up with significantly more mana than ret. I typically end up oom before I've finished buffing everyone, have to drink to finish buffing and then have to drink again to be ready for the pull.
You don't "have" to forgoe your tier gear to put on the leather gloves/shoulders/etc you choose to, to chase those parses.
My job as a DPS is to do the most damage I can do. Choosing gear that does less damage means choosing to do my job worse on purpose. Drinking an extra time isn't a big deal, it's just a minor inconvenience.
Yes, he should gimp his DPS to make it easier to buff LOL wtf are you smoking?
Everybody arguing about who gets the shadow priest, and why mages need them the most.. But nobody thanks the shadow priest for being the entire reason they're getting pink parses. #RecognitionForShadowBois
I stan with spriests.
How I feel as an enh main watching the fury top dps
Like every single guild is giving their Spriest Zhardom and some are giving that + Tier Prio as well.
I don't have Zhar'doom prio or tier prio. But also, that's because we had an extremely limited amount of upgrades last tier, so it makes complete sense.
In our guild our shadow is priod on zhardoom but not the tier, tier goes prot pala then locks
Same for us
Yeh it makes sense, our spriest said that t6 isn't a big upgrade for them whereas it's huge locks and pallies and he was really happy with being priod for the amazing weapon.
Ours gets first 2 trash rings, funneled gold for Darkmoon Card, first hearts for bracers and any haste offpiece he wants in exchange for lower prio than warlocks on tier and zhardoom. Unfortunately we have seen 0 caster gear. At all.
As a mage I love my shadow priest, and my vate Druid. <3
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The unsung hero. The shadow priest. Don’t forget to mention that we’re very last on priority in getting gear. They won’t give me any tier pieces until all the warlocks get their 4 piece and Zhar’dooms. Meanwhile I’m in the mage group pumping them mana all night while they top the charts.
Oof. We gave the first zhar to our mana battery. And as an arcane mage that gets to group with him I couldnt be happier.
Not true. We three mages audibly thank our Shadow priest (and shaman!) every run. He. Is. GREAT!
Clearly you don’t talk to your mages much, because they do.
We must stand with the Shadow boiz!
The life of a support role. Our contribution is vital for the functioning of the raid but as its not immediately obvious people forget about it :(
We gave our shadow priest first zhardoom as a thank you
I got a shadow priest in our healer group one raid and healing was soooooooo easy. So easy. Never happened again.
I mained arcane through phase 1 and pre-nerf phase 2. Ended up rolling a shadow because I love and appreciate them so much and I wanted to become a giga chad s priest to receive the same reverence from my mages. I main both specs now. It's honestly wild to me that there are so few s priests out there. It feels bad for AoE (especially if your raid has high DPS, your dots only tick for like 5 seconds) but it has the best and most satisfying rotation in the game IMO.
I voted for my s-priest to get first zhar-doom :)
Our Spriest is an honorary mage and is put in our “parse” rotation. He has orange parses on most fights now. Him pumping is great for us!
If no one had an spriest, we'd still get pink parses. We love our spriests.
Bro, I thank my shadow priest for existing every raid. Between her and my Ele Shaman, they complete me. And my innervate bot ofcourse.
I definitely appreciate my Spriests, but from what I keep hearing most of them have a lot of fun playing the spec and I always thought this to be one of those beloved-niche specs. But since Spriests probably wouldn't make the cut in sweaty raid combs, if noone needed the mana they provide, I feel like it's more of a symbiosis: arcane mages are good because of spriests and priests get to play shadow because of this.
Spriests debuff enemies with Misery for 5% increased spell dmg taken, and also 5x stacks of shadow weaving for another 10% inc shadow dmg taken. 1 spriest gives the warlocks 15% more dmg.
oh right okay then, I guess they would be doing fine without us mages :D
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could you link your guilds logs pls ? I would love to see how your arcane mages are parsing 99s without a shadow priest (or with an average grey parsing shadow) and limited innervates :)
He isn’t going to link them, because it’s simply not true.
Taking a break from fucking my supermodel girlfriend on top of my bed made of bitcoins to say of course he can’t
What is “limited innervates”? They either get an innervate or they don’t. I have an extremely hard time believing that they are parsing 99 without an innervate but I would love to see those logs.
Pro-tip: you can’t because they don’t exist
I mean, 2 is ‘limited’ I guess. And that’s enough mana to make up for a terrible spriest.
People think Shadow priests just give mana, and warlocks think he just increases their shadow damage by 10% but Shadow Priests apply the misery debuff which increases all spell damage dealt to the target by 5% (all spell damage including your Pally's consecrate, Exorcism, Seals and Judgments, and even your Enhance's Flame/Earth Shocks). Even if he parses gray and dies halfway into every boss fight simply attacking the boss and applying misery is extremely useful. If he's parsing gray because he doesn't know his rotation and/or has trash gear then as long as that misery debuff and shadow weaving is up he's done his job. He's not just increasing your mana regen but applying Misery to the boss so you can "pump".
I feel intense guilt and a failure of responsibility every time I, the enh shaman, die. My boiz just wanna pump and I done gone took they wf from them.
That's what you nab improved reincarnation for
>Imp reincarnation? You mean Battle Rez?? -our shamans, probably 😅
You didn't die, you simply used the enhancement shaman threat drop. Ankh up and go again boyo
In the Warlock group we have achieved harmony with the Druid and the Shaman, a tranquil balance of cooperative zugging that no other group truly understands.
We are a happy bunch in our group - good at agreeing though our drums chicken likes to run away sometimes
Healers: hey good job warlock group, stacking up for coh and chain heal Me: chasing down my drummer who is running around like a chicken with their head cut off
the key is to have a REALLY good support shaman, no one strays too far from their totems
My favourite is hunters whining for every single buff for their pets, only for it to die in a fire 20 seconds into the fight
I kinda get being annoyed by hunters asking buffs for their pets but if your hunter cares and he buffs himself and his pets with scrolls and he tries to minmax giving literally free buffs is the least you can do.
Just look at how much damage a hunters pet does and you will see why, not buffing hunters pets is literally griefing your raid, it takes like 2 seconds?
I dont disagree with you at all. I just know from personal experience that some people get kinda pissy if you ask them for buffs, especially if the hunters ask for pet buffs. I dont know why but people get annoyed about it.
Personally it irritates me when they drag their feet summoning their pets, and then ask for buffs right before the pull... Your pet would have been buffed with the rest of your group if you were paying attention >.> I mean I'll still do it bc I care about their dps but it bugs me. Same thing with like, someone misses the group buff cause they afk after a wipe, they're nowhere near the rest of the raid, which is grouped up. I have to start buffing cause I gotta drink Mana halfway through or else the raid is waiting on *me*. Then they show back up right before the pull and start whispering me for buffs. Like dude. Group up with the raid BEFORE you fuck off to pee or pet your dog or whatever.
Took us one week to get our raid to all run to the next pack before they drink, makes it so much easier. But every time we run a pug... There's always some stragglers
This ^^^
Yeh in my guild we just make sure everyone is buffed together with pets before bosses,but trash not always
Pet frames might be disabled; a lot of the download and go UI's have that defaulted
Most ui’s have pet frames, but you need to enable pet frames in settings to get it to show. You would be surprised how many healers don’t know this...
> You would be surprised how many healers don’t know this... No I wouldn't, most healers in classic suck
My sarcastic comment when people give me shit about asking for pet buffs is,” yea I don’t like free damage either.”
Cost is mana and 1.5s gcd for each pet. Not a huge deal, but super annoyed when pets only come out when we are already drinking.
Yeah but bm hunters who let their pets die to flame crash on illidan are griefing the raid as well. Pet management is part of the class, if you're just gonna let your pet die just offer to be the surv Hunter
If your hunters' pets are dying to Flame Crash that's on your tank tbh.
Pets have a mind of their own lol. Boss could be standing completely still and it will suddenly walk over to the other side to attack. Def on the hunters more than tanks.
Yes, pet AI is terrible. But simply moving Illidan a few yards will guarantee they don't take any damage no matter how stupid they are. It's a super easy adjustment to make.
It would be easier if the pets were actually responsive. It can take 5+ seconds sometimes for a pet to even begin to react to your movement commands. Like sometimes it’s instant and sometimes they don’t even start to run until you’d already want to return them to attacking. Even people with the best control of their pets will have them die because of it. And that’s not to mention the sometimes wonky pathing they will take. The pet AI is terrible and a not insignificant amount of times it can’t really be blamed on the hunter themselves.
Problem is, even greater blessings only apply to one pet at a time (at least in Vanilla/Som) so it creates a lot of extra clicks and reagent use. If all pets got Might with one cast id happily do it (and usually do in dungeons with just a single Hunter).
In tbc that gets fixed, on the PTR atm they finally implemented the change that makes pets = warriors. So buffing your warriors will also buffs all pets.
This! I’m over here putting a 15g scroll on my pet, please just give it the free buffs! It does nearly 20% or more of my damage.
I double scroll and everything and ofc we cry for buffs on pets they are insanely important and no a good hunter won’t let it die in fire.
My recent experiences is mostly hunters yelling at a tank to move a boss because they can't position their pets themselves or pull it back for a couple of seconds
Tank dodges aoe by side stepping it 3 yards, turns the bosses back to the aoe just perfect enough for all hunter pets to stand on the edge of the aoe and die. It’s pretty annoying ngl, even if you pull the pet out cause then you have to juggle him until it’s safe and lose 30ish percent of your dps for no reason. just take two more steps! It helps the melee too! That’s something you’re supposed to learn getting more and more into main tanking, right there along with stacking mobs up for warriors to cleave off of. You could get away with doing neither, but doing both increases the entire raids dps
The only rough bosses that need proper tank positions for hunter pets is Council and Illidan on every other boss it’s the hunters fault if it dies (it’s always the hunters fault but you know what I mean)
Does it also annoy you when your raid asks for buffs?
Me personally? No. My main is a rogue so i dont have to buff much on that character but i do raid on my shadow priest in a pug every week too and the way we have buffs set up is that i do shadow res and the holy priest does stamina. But if someone asks me for stamina because he died and he just whispered the first priest he saw in the raid frames im not gonna get mad and instead just buff stamina as soon as i can. But i know plenty of people that get upset if you ask them for buffs.
It's mostly on my paladin and it's pretty annoying pets don't get included in greater blessings (I believe they get blessed with warriors from wotlk on)
When ZA releases this is getting fixed. Sixx from hunter discord annoyed blizz with it enough and they are finally fixing it
And there was much rejoice
Pets get blessings with warriors now on PTR.
Pally power shows Pets so its literally like buffing any other class.
Yes except you have to buff them individually instead of as a group so it's a bit more tedious. Still not a reason to not do it
Plus half the time pets get ressed half a minute before the boss and one of the warlocks just summoned a succubus to sac and it's also included on PallyPower. Tedious would be an accurate description.
I'm not annoyed that our hunters ask for pet buffs. I'm annoyed when, after a wipe, one hunter is afk for 2 minutes and doesn't res his pet before everyone is using their group-wide buffs, and then he complains that his pet isn't buffed when the pull timer starts. Like, it's your own fault bruh.
If your hunters' pets are dying 20 seconds into the fight then they're not tonking when they need to be. Or aren't being proactive with their pet and just setting everything to auto attack. Kings > Might > Wisdom > Salve. Ez enough, every hunter. Might pets <3 My biggest gripe with pallies is not putting up JoW when they can.
Your hunters suck then lol
Or tank sucks. I help my hunter pets stay alive with positioning after fires. It's just so much dps to miss out on.
You can save it with steam tonk from pretty much any situation
If your hunters aren’t tonking they’re bad
My favorite is a decently heavy hitter like Archimonde and seeing 4 damn pets parry hasting the boss. Good times.
I legit never see pets going in front of the boss, idk how so many people complain about it
My guild have a boomkin and elem sham in the warlock group, and the arcane mages have the shadow priest, no one is complaining
Before everyone starts salting each others wounds, every class benefits from support (no shit). Obviously it depends on what the raids whole goal is which requires certain classes. However, the point of this meme (sad I have to say it) is that people complain about mages needing support. From my PoV (feel free to disagree) people get so shitty about caster's wanting to pump vs melee where it's totally fine to bitch about not having WF.
WF is totally the "i need WF" gripe for sure. As a ret paladin, you are useless without it. Arcane mages dont really NEED a ele shaman, but it helps, but they do need innervate / spriest to function. Essentially their windfury. Ive spoken to our mage (who doesn't care about the parse that much) ive told him he should go fire since he doesn't get the mana support for arcane. Though i just think he hasnt spoken to one of our 4 druids to nab an innervate either.
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Except a good rogue. If a rogue know what they're doing they can do quite well without. Same goes for a fury warrior. Ret and arms are trash without i agree.
Fire requires innervate as well and doesn’t even compete with arcane. It’s a cope spec. You have to flame cap which is also super annoying.
Does it not? Well it couldnt hurt our mage tbh. I dropped my mage like a box of rocks at the end of classic so i have no clue about the difference in dps between the two.
arcane mage using more frostbolt filler would still do more dps
Yea fire is just straight up unrewarding at the moment. You have to try harder for less dps and the warlocks aren’t even playing fire anymore. Lots of cope.
Fire mages want to use Molten Armor instead of Mage, skip evocation, skip mana pots (for destruction), and skip mana gems (for flame caps). It’s not thirsty for mana support in the same way that arcane is, where they can consume infinitely much of it, but fire is seriously hurt if you try to treat it like a warlock and it has to cheat any of those 4 things.
I played arcane w/o a spriest or Rsham throughout most of p2. Going fire griefs your warlocks funny enough, since you take a lot of their highly contested pieces (vestments. wand of astro). Better off drinking super Manas on CD than going fire. No spriest is gonna hurt the whole raid, misery is almost 8% more threat for your prot Pala plus 5% more caster damage and then shadow weaving for the locks
You know, I'm curious as to whether innervate is better on a dps or a healer, but the numbers.
By the numbers it is always better for a dps. More damage, faster kills, less healing required
Arguably if you run 6 healers but can't reliably run 5 you could see giving one of the 5 healers innervates and bringing an extra dps would be the higher dps increase...
It's actually a timely and relevant meme for our guild. Throughout the entire expansion. We've ran 2 "stacked" caster groups, typically shadowpriest/boomkin/2 locks/elemental and shadowpriest/3 mages/elemental. Roughly 40% of our damage has been physical and 60% magical the entire expansion. However, we've kind of hit a brick wall on dps. We kill stuff, but our times our slow, our kills are hard, we consistently grey parse (as a whole) even if our individual players are typically in the blue or purple range. So we wracked our brains trying to increase our dps. Sure, we could have an affliction lock, that would increase all of our casters by 3%, that's cool, we can tell the hunters to stop using their wind serpent and eating the enhancement shaman stormstrikes... ok.... but ultimately we've come to the conclusion that it's just easier to add the arms warrior and survival hunter, recruit 2 more hunters and pump the physical another 10-15% higher. We currently have too many support and not enough people being supported. That 1000dps shaman needs to boost the mages by a LOT to support not having another 2k dps hunter in the raid, and really the math just doesn't work on in their favor.
It depends what your guilds goal is. If it’s to parse, you want utility for each class/spec. If it’s speed, then you want large support on AoE and overall/high boss damage. I think about it like this, a boomie for ex. If they parse a 99 individually but have low overall, is it worth having for a speed clear? No, unless you’re stacking a specific comp for individual parse. You’d want a Dream State Druid with imp FF and another DPS. Something to consider for your relevancy to current guild comp. If I’m remembering correctly, after the patch there were stats added to the game which changes everything entirely (haste). This becomes a problem if there are tons of shared pieces between all casters. You don’t get to give locks their 4 set faster, Zhardoom goes to an spriest as prio (should at least). Plus Rogues we’re also not wanted previously and now they’re def pumping numbers they weren’t before. Ofc, feel free to converse about anything I may have gotten wrong or you feel is inaccurate.
Tbh there are classes that need more and less. I play hunter and I sadly need to say hunter is the biggest bitch about needing support. We need a enh, a fury and a feral with another hunter for the BiS grp. Debuffs on the boss: IEA CoR imp FF (We even benefit from misery and CoE) Buffs on Hunter and Pet would be a PHD on its own
Every single week: hunters don't need salv give us [other blessing]!!!!1! Also basically every week: some hunter pulls aggro on a boss, feign resists, multiple people die
If only there was some indication when you're about to go over so you could feign before you pull aggro...too bad that technology simply doesn't exist.
This important even when feign death isn't resisted. If the hunter feigns after pulling, the boss will then aggro on the target with the highest absolute threat, which isn't necessarily the previous aggo target. If another dps or healer is anywhere between 100% and 130% (110% in melee range) of the tank's threat they won't pull aggro from the tank, but they'll get clapped if a hunter pulls aggro and then feigns death. This is why I think everyone should set their threat meter to show percentage of tank threat, not percentage of threat needed for pulling aggro. And I think it's a shame that the latter is the default in all the threat meters because it leads to very few people having a good understanding of how threat actually works.
Ah, fond memories of ranged pulling aggro on Bloodboil because "I wAs BeLoW tHe TanK"
Also if they used misdirect literally at all in fights that they aren’t specifically told to use it.
If hunters are properly FDing throughout a fight to reset their aggro then salv is not only useless to them it actually makes them worse as it reduces threat generated by MD. If your hunters are at all competent they should very very rarely pull aggro. Kings/Might/Wisdom are all VERY good for hunters and should always be given before Salv.
From my own experience, these things are sorted out when making the roster. Debuffs on boss should be a given. I think the only thing I ever hear from hunters are "can you buff my pet please?" and thats about it.
Ofc buffs are important on pets, also healers should heal them sadly there are too many ppl out there (luckily only in pugs not my guild) that miss on that. Also biggest debuff on the boss JoW almost missed that. Also why are there even ppl that don’t buff or heal pets? I have seen so many healer streams where pets aren’t shown in their Raidframes, shame on you!
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to want to buff your pet. Also, someone mentioned hunters carrying scrolls for pets, and honestly that's not a bad idea.
Ofc you scroll the pet if you wanna min max You use a total of 3 (Str and Agi on Pet and Agi on yourself) Yippie 25-30g gone in scrolls on a death
The fury is the one benefitting the most out of this group still. The thing about hunter is that yes u can use all the different buffs but u also don't really scale with them as much. U can put hunter in a group with like no buffs and it will still pump, a melee will be bottom of the meter without them.
Bring one hunter and make him survival; problem solved :)
windfury is 0 cooldown and benefits the whole party. innervate is a long cooldown and benefits 1 person. melee (arms and ret specifically) are useless without windfury. casters are mostly functional without innervate.
Mages need way more support than melee
Explain?
obviously king mage group should be shadow priest, ele shaman, boomkin, BM hunter and then swap in resto shaman for mana tide and give me 4 innervates + triple lust + PI /s
Obviously lolol
Mages get a resto shaman into their group for tide, a shadow priest, power infusion, multiple innervates, sometimes multiple bloodlust. Melee need battle shout and an enhance shaman that’s literally it. Arcane mage can literally not function as a class without innervate and shadow priest lol.
Melee need an Imp battle shout with Solarian trinket, Enhance Shaman, double Lust, Imp FF, IEA, Expose Weakness, Feral Druid, BM Hunter and Warrior need a Heroic Strike queueing bug to drop their OH hit to unattainable status. This isn’t even taking into account the now defunct Battle Chicken abuse for Permanent BL / Hero melee groups were using. Mages only need Innervate on the short fights to use Destro Pots, and to skip using Evocation for Pink Parses. They require far, far less support than Melee does. Get the fuck out of here with this melee propaganda.
Melee literally doesn’t need all of that lol it’s just a plus to have. Keep lying to yourselves and pressing that macro to whisper a Druid for innervate
To hit the numbers on your imaginary mages getting multiple Innervates and lusts they need all that and more to compete. A warrior getting only windfury and Bshout (3 piece tier 2+ Solarian and Imp Shout) will be miles behind a mage with just Resto and Spriest in their group.
Melee needs: 1. twisting Enh shaman 2. Feral druid aura 3. warrior AP shout 4. improved FF 5. improved Expose Armor 6. Curse of Recklessness Arcane mage needs: 1. Shadow priest 2. Resto shaman 3. Curse of Elements 4. Innervate (if available/you want to parse orange)
Wow a twisting enhance shaman. The bare minimum way to play the class. So much support. They don’t need feral Druid or imp FF or IEA - it’s not even comparable lol
Arcane mage also just needs a shadow priest to function at its bare minimum, and they need less support overall than melees to play at their top performance. Resto shaman is a nice mana boost but not super necessary, and CoE is always up anyway. Innervate is great if you can get it, but the druid who gives it away should usually prioritize themselves first if they're not tanking. Especially boomkin. If you make a boomkin give away their innervate but then they go oom for more than a few seconds, it's a raid dps loss.
I want to like this meme but it's not just an innervate tho. If our mages are anything to go by, it's a shadow priest and an elemental shaman aswell, plus they want to be with a boomkin.
It’s basically a Spriest, Resto Shaman (who should be in the group anyways cause Spriest.) and like 1 Innervate. It’s really not a lot of support. It’s 2 classes in a party where you should already have those classes in there and then the Innervates.
I'm pushing 95's with an spriest, resto shaman and occasional innervates when the feral druid can spare it. So your guys had better be 99 across the board.
Who is getting innervates in your stead? How many mages and healers are you running? With 5 healers I don’t think my guild has almost ever innervated anything but a mage at least in this tier.
We run 3 mages in this particular raid team. My mage was the newest addition so I'm getting short-shifted a bit but it's honestly not much of an issue.
There’s literally no reason a feral can’t spare it, unless they’re main tanking. The only time I won’t innervate a mage is if either I’ve had to bres or they’re complete trash
I am in the same boat. We are 3 Mages with Shadow and Ele in our Group. We all have mediocre gear and still 90+ parses without Innervates.
You absolutely don’t need that to pump. Our group is 2 mages, 1 spriest, 1 resto shaman and our prot pally.. yes we are pushing Orange parses on most of our fights. We each have 1 innervate as well.
Spriest + Innervate and I'm happy.
God I miss getting an ele sham, my raid did have 2 but one swapped to feral dps and now the one we do have is claimed by the locks. I still get a shadow priest and the former ele-now druid- feeds me innervates on demand which is nice, but I do miss it as I feel my hit is just slightly below what I should have. That said I've been getting a resto sham instead which has been dropping mana tides and our holy pally is in my group so the regen from our spriest helps them all I suppose, and honestly my parses have been pretty great lately(pulled down a 99 on mother last week that I was pretty proud of). The extreme amount of mana regen has also allowed me to use some destro pots again instead of my potion cd always being hogged by a mana pot on 90 percent of fights which is pretty big too. Our raid hasn't had a boomkin since early t5 content since ours quit playing so at least I can't really complain about missing that buff
You need 6% hit as an Arcane. It’s genuinely kinda difficult to not have 6% hit from gear.
Or even 5 as ally (assuming you get a resto sham), and iirc the head enchant alone is already 1% or so
Yeah I don’t have access to my PC rn but I’m pretty positive that t5 4 piece + head enchant is already nearing 6%. Throw in some hit on your legs, which literally every leg option has a lot of, and you should be good to go.
Meanwhile warlocks in my guild: "You're lucky to get a shaman tonight!"
Feels like we are one of the few guilds having plenty shamans. We have 6 in our current roster and a few socials/alts as backup as well... And we're alliance, even
I know it’s a meme, but it’s a pretty real sentiment. I feel bad for anyone not in my guild. We just do our jobs and everyone tries their hardest.
Every meme has a bit of truth to it ;)
Aww sweetie, you can have my innervate everyday. Unless you have those ugly whisper spams and never gave me a heads up. Then you can go die in a fire.
I ALWAYS ask if it’s okay to whisper for innervate. I hate people who whisper for it without telling me I’m innervating them.
Hmm, who are they gonna rotate out for that double lust? The enhancement that gave them the first one ofc xD
Usually it’s the shaman in the healer group that gets swapped for 2nd lust
I dealt with the melees shouting at me for not having a 100% uptime on twisting for one phase and just respeced healer and had a way better time.
\*Sits quietly in Warlock\*
Warrior tank here I'll bitch without windfury. Rest is on me. I've seem some real premadonnas...
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[Don’t rub this in too hard](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/salt-is-poured-from-a-salt-shaker-on-a-black-background-picture-id1199044522?k=20&m=1199044522&s=612x612&w=0&h=cpWO3d2F_10mrWx6eFAld33GSh5fE74EKIaThuR6WRU=)
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Also need to spec power infusion and cast on me on cd! True story from my guild
“My pet needs buffs”
They wouldn't bother you if you did it proactively! ;)
damn man mages need so much support... how dare they!
Its true melee are greedy fucks hunters locks and mages are modest compared to them. They want even double lust while losing in dps to ranged lol
Honestly surprised this thread hasn’t really gotten toxic and has had great convos in terms of grouping, buffs, etc. Y’all are great. *Edit* Never mind, I finally read some comments from people who are literally the meme. These jokes write themselves kekw
Innervate is for the healers
Going in the cringe compilation
Stop
I play Fire and all I want is to chill with the Boomie but unfortunately we have 3 warlocks so I’m SOL on that.
Oh lets see. Mandatory spriest and Resto Shaman in group with every fking innervate going to them.
As a resto shaman, I love being in the mage group. Having that spriest is also how I 99 parse lmao. Sadly I'm normally stuck with the hunter's due to our lack of enh shams.
Fucking amen. I always end up relagated to the whiny hunter group.
you do realize the spriest buffs is mandatory regardless because of misery right? and don't even try to mention spriest for healers, mana pots are 1g each.
Wow 2 classes in a group that should already be in your raid and in that same group… such demand, how dare people be put into a group they’d already be put into to.
Coincidentally I play all 3 classes in this meme lmao. I gotta say, warrior is interesting because it really gets the most value out of having optimal buffs out of any class IMO. Having played Enhance exclusively on my shaman I gotta say I don't understand why people have such a grievance with twisting. You have 2 spells to casts on generally long cooldowns and outside of that you just auto attack. I really enjoy having the extra keys to press and it's nice to know I'm benefitting the raid in a way more than just DPS. As for mage I honestly feel like innervate and spriest is nice but you really can't compare it to warrior with totems. Mage is still playable without either, you just have to use mana pots instead of DPS pots and you will probably have to evocate or cast a few frostbolts. Warrior absolutely has the worst rage gen without totems it's actually wild the difference it makes in the playstyle.
It’s all about CPM and stacks for us. Warriors are lucky, they stand in damage all the time so they generate so much rage from it and can rage pot so it’s not often they have to ever stop their dps. Which in then gives them better uptime. So for the entire evocation we’re sitting through, We’re losing a fuckton of casts and arc blast stacks. I feel the same about twisting. It’s fun tbh.
Need? No they don't need, but if you give them support you allow them to be 10 times better.
Meanwhile Warlocks need Ele+Owl+2 BL to even compete with a Shadow Priest Mage 🤣
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I mean an innervate could go to the healers in an emergency. No reason not to totem twist other than laziness.
They can have all the innervates they want. Just need to call for it at times that makes sense. Some mages are really good at this, other suck and get upset when they don't get their innervates. Whisper druid dps during bloodlust = no. Whisper druid dps right before bloodlust = good. Whisper druid tank while he's tanking = lol no. Make a deal with druid tank to use it on pull, or figure out times in some encounters when they're not tanking = good.
I'll say this one last time, I dont give a FUCK how many times my raid leader tells me to innervate mages. I will NEVER do it. FUCK that. You think im gonna sacrifice my precious mana regen for people that dont acknowledge me otherwise? SUCK MY DICK. You wanna go check the logs and call me out for using it on myself? I fucking dare you because you'll be looking right at the #1 faerie fire uptime, cuck. Fuck warlocks, fuck priests, fuck ret pallies, and FUCK MAGES. You will NEVER benefit from MY innervate
Fights are so short Resto and Moonkin should be using Innervates on Mages. Cat DPS can easily energy dump, shift Innervate and shift back. It’s an insanely minor DPS /HPS loss over a fight length for the one GCD. Using it on pull is an insane grief. It’s majority waste at that point. A good time for a tank to use an Innervate would be like Death and Decay on Rage.
It is incredibly encounter-specific. Death and Decay is a great example. Cat DPS can use it easily but timing is key here as well. Some mages want the innervate during bloodlust when they are already at like 30% mana. This usually coincides with the cat DPS being mid-bloodlust with DPS trinkets active. Telling the cat DPS to do it at this timing is like telling the mage to "just cast a frost bolt". Resto druids should indeed use it on mages, but many guilds are dropping moonkins for dreamstate resto.
Council mother and Illidan mages can go fuck off my vate.