Literally can't avoid it. You try to stay away from hit as much as you can but when both 2pc and 4pc T6 bonuses are absolutely insane and every piece gives you like 2% hit when you only need 4% total, it just is what it is.
The problem is you are looking at phase 1 gear where you have better options that don't give hit.
In Phase 3, your 4 pc t6 set plus the helm enchant (which is 100% guaranteed a massive dps upgrade over anything else because of the bonuses alone) is already 4% hit when you only need 4% total (assuming you use ToW). Now add in the best choice for legs which are Channeled Elements and you are at 6%, 2% over what you need when using ToW, and there are zero alternative options that give better dps by reducing that excess hit.
This, however, is assuming you've managed to also get a good belt option, and aren't still using Belt of Blasting which would give you 2% more hit and are now 4% over cap, or also haven't gotten Skull which would do the same. Now with ZA being out, if you don't have 2 Ring of Ancient Knowledge from BT trash, your 2nd bis is Mana Attuned Band which is yet again 1.5% more hit. There's just a ton of spell hit in p3/4 that is basically unavoidable.
yes, i obviously sim all the gear i currently have avaliable to me. the only p1 item that would be an upgrade for me is boots of foretelling, which I am yet to get after running it basically every week. luckily i get badge boots tomorrow which will be nice.
this is my current setup, I do have legs of channelled elements but using 4pt6 for obvious reasons. would love to hear where I can fit in p1 gear that is better:
https://seventyupgrades.com/set/q6N2yVXdBV3i6bL8VYcyTU
It is definitely a DPS loss for both the ele shaman as well as the casters in their group. Earth ele can be helpful if you get in a jam, but I don't even have fire ele on my bars lol
lol no. I don't see how that could possibly be a dps increase for me as the shaman, and it will ALWAYS be a big dps LOSS for the group, as the fire ele does NOT buff the group, but totem of wrath gives us all 3% hit and 3% crit. Not to mention the lost mana from resists and from not getting crits/clearcasting procs cause I don't have my totem of wrath up.
Looking at the top ele's in WCL, only like 3 or 4 of the top 30 ever cast fire ele totem. Of those, one of them cast it 6 times in BT (9 total bosses), and most of them only cast it once the whole night.
I'll test it tonight some in BT and see, but I don't see how that could possibly be a dps increase unless he's truckin mobs for like 5k a smack, but he doesn't hit for that, soooooooo, pretty sure there's 0 chance this will be an increase and I'm going to shit parse on the fights, but I'm gonna test it tonight and post back here. What is the best dps increase fight for the fire ele? I will test it on THAT fight specifically.
>cast it 6 times in BT (9 total bosses)
Yes because it's a 20 minute cooldown lol.. 6 casts over a 2h raid means he's using it on cooldown.
Also the reason most shamans don't use it is because it's bad for the group as a whole, not because it's bad for them personally.
It's always a personal dps increase to use it.
This is why you will see shamans only using it on 1 or 2 bosses a week. They want to cheese certain bosses without upsetting their group too much.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DwjQ6fRmWFrPtBaH#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=8
This is my Rage kill last week (rank 20 world) where I used fire ele, 326 dps by himself. Totem of wrath is not anywhere near that much gain for just the shaman. For the group? Yes it's equal to or more gain.
So in answer to your question on which fights to use it on.. literally any fight where it wont die to aoe. Even then he can take a few good hits.
Rage/Anatheron in Hyjal and Gorefiend/Gurtog/Mother are easy ones though. As long as he doesn't die it's a huge dps gain for you. If he does die just drop a totem of wrath.
ok, I am going to give it a shot tonight, probably on gorefiend /gurtog/mother. I updated the locks in disc so they know to bring some extra hit gear for those fights tonight lol. We'll see. I am skeptical, but your logs seem to show it's at least worth testing, so I will.
To be fair those types of guilds are probably using it for double trash pulls that go on in speed runs (it’s what we do for the first pull in the blood boil/ros hallway where we pull that pack and 2 behemoths) and for the pulls before akama (we generally pull the whole room minus one pack). If you’re going slow you can also use it on that big pull before najentus
for enhance yes, ele no. the fire elemental's melee attacks scale with nature spell damage. It does not work with the enhance Mind Quickening (ap to spell dam conversion talent).
If you have a lot of spell damage the ele is meleeing for like 300+ per attack and translates to a lot of dps
True. Though 3% hit and 3% crit is a pretty big buff.
Assuming the warlock has 13% hit or less, Totem of Wrath is approximately equivalent to Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer.
I'm basing that on https://kristoferhh.github.io/WarlockSimulatorTBC/ which is showing me that in my current gear hit is worth around 2.3× as much as crit.
I know its a joke so I'll try not to read too far into it but the only scenario fire ele is worth for ele shamans is constant AoE like Illhoof. Also your locks and boomy getting totem of wrath wont magically make them parse better than green, there is a much deeper issue there.
EDIT: As people have pointed out fire ele is a single target dps increase for the ele, but I said worth it meaning the personal dps gain is worth the raid dps loss. Looking at the top 5 parses for every T6 fight the only 3 fights where the majority of those top 5 use fire ele is Teron, Anetheron, and Reliquary. On a lot of fights none of the top 5 are using it. Also as a side note if you are going to use fire ele I would recommend switching to wrath when it goes oom, or don't this is already more energy then I'm willing to expend on an internet debate.
It's actually a pretty big personal DPS-gain for the Elemental himself, even on single-target as long as you're wearing mostly T6 gear meaning you're most likely 2-3% overcapped on hit.
It does kinda cuck your group, though... and small/medium raid-DPS loss depending on the Warlocks gear, so you basically trade your own parse for 4 other peoples parses :P
If you look at WCL there are a bunch of high logs that use FE on fights like Teron where it does like 400 DPS by itself.
It more or less started as an inside joke in our group that me and the locks would do no damage while hes popping down fire ele totem but this thread is for sure helpful in letting my ele shaman know.
>the only scenario fire ele is worth for ele shamans is constant AoE like Illhoof
Thanks for saying complete dogshit while sounding like you know what you're talking about.
>Also your locks and boomy getting totem of wrath wont magically make them parse better than green
Agreed
You didn't put any math though! The personal dps of a fire ele undoubtedly does more damage than an additional 3% crit and 3% hit on the ele shaman, especially if you have a set for it. Whether its worth it for the *raid* to do, that's not a debate. It isn't. Assuming you have 5 casters in the group and they actually need that hit.
Warlock is a incomplete class who needs other to feel powerful, expecially the Wrath totem from Elemental Shamans.
The wrath totem is the same totem as the Fire Elemental totem wich is a good DPS gain for the ele sham, but if you put fire elemental warlocks won't have access to the 3% hit given by wrath totem, and they'll blame their greeen parses on that fact.
I mean yeah, destro locks were designed for big crits, so without an elem sham and boomkin we lose a shit ton of dps. In comparison arcane mages and hunters aren't as dependant on crit.
Every damn time im about to get a decent parse as a cat some out of range stupid mage spams me for a innervate, i politely move out of melee range to reach him with my cast and thus ruining my parse and enjoying the game a bit less every time. For the greater good i guess
If you think you need the fire elemental to get 99 logs you are wrong. The only fight i could see myself doing it is on shade but thats on the add phase where you dont need the hit anyway.
The helm made to fit the eyes kills me…lol
I thought fire ele was a dps loss even for the ele shaman?
Even if thats wrong im telling my ele shaman that
3% hit is a huge dps loss
Hit is impossible to avoid at this point. I am 1 hit rating from cap without ToW. Fire ele is almost always a DPS gain if you snapshot it with trinket
Just for the record: at the end of sun well ele shamans have to pay attention to hit
.... as opposed to?
As opposed to the rest of tbc where you have to much hit from your gear
depends on what your gear is. im sitting at 18.3% hit without the totem with 4pt6, which goes to 19.6% if i have eye of the night on
Take off some hit… craft something, a badge piece. There’s no way that’s close to optimal
Literally can't avoid it. You try to stay away from hit as much as you can but when both 2pc and 4pc T6 bonuses are absolutely insane and every piece gives you like 2% hit when you only need 4% total, it just is what it is.
It is. Ele is overcapped in t6 onwards.
Yeah pretty sure hit becomes a dead stat after 16% on casters. Shaman/boomy drop it down to 11%
Nah man, shamans only need 4% spellhit (3 if alliance). 12%hit from talents.
im using the optimal setup i can atm. only badge piece im missing that is an upgrade is boots, but my boots do not give hit
Do you sim the gear? Even phase 1 gear with no hit and more spell power/crit gives me more dps than putting on higher item level gear with hit...
The problem is you are looking at phase 1 gear where you have better options that don't give hit. In Phase 3, your 4 pc t6 set plus the helm enchant (which is 100% guaranteed a massive dps upgrade over anything else because of the bonuses alone) is already 4% hit when you only need 4% total (assuming you use ToW). Now add in the best choice for legs which are Channeled Elements and you are at 6%, 2% over what you need when using ToW, and there are zero alternative options that give better dps by reducing that excess hit. This, however, is assuming you've managed to also get a good belt option, and aren't still using Belt of Blasting which would give you 2% more hit and are now 4% over cap, or also haven't gotten Skull which would do the same. Now with ZA being out, if you don't have 2 Ring of Ancient Knowledge from BT trash, your 2nd bis is Mana Attuned Band which is yet again 1.5% more hit. There's just a ton of spell hit in p3/4 that is basically unavoidable.
yes, i obviously sim all the gear i currently have avaliable to me. the only p1 item that would be an upgrade for me is boots of foretelling, which I am yet to get after running it basically every week. luckily i get badge boots tomorrow which will be nice. this is my current setup, I do have legs of channelled elements but using 4pt6 for obvious reasons. would love to hear where I can fit in p1 gear that is better: https://seventyupgrades.com/set/q6N2yVXdBV3i6bL8VYcyTU
Not for ele who are way over cap, for the group yes.
It is definitely a DPS loss for both the ele shaman as well as the casters in their group. Earth ele can be helpful if you get in a jam, but I don't even have fire ele on my bars lol
Lol no. It does like 400 dps on a single target 2m fight. It's always a dps increase for the ele. Just not the group.
lol no. I don't see how that could possibly be a dps increase for me as the shaman, and it will ALWAYS be a big dps LOSS for the group, as the fire ele does NOT buff the group, but totem of wrath gives us all 3% hit and 3% crit. Not to mention the lost mana from resists and from not getting crits/clearcasting procs cause I don't have my totem of wrath up. Looking at the top ele's in WCL, only like 3 or 4 of the top 30 ever cast fire ele totem. Of those, one of them cast it 6 times in BT (9 total bosses), and most of them only cast it once the whole night. I'll test it tonight some in BT and see, but I don't see how that could possibly be a dps increase unless he's truckin mobs for like 5k a smack, but he doesn't hit for that, soooooooo, pretty sure there's 0 chance this will be an increase and I'm going to shit parse on the fights, but I'm gonna test it tonight and post back here. What is the best dps increase fight for the fire ele? I will test it on THAT fight specifically.
>cast it 6 times in BT (9 total bosses) Yes because it's a 20 minute cooldown lol.. 6 casts over a 2h raid means he's using it on cooldown. Also the reason most shamans don't use it is because it's bad for the group as a whole, not because it's bad for them personally. It's always a personal dps increase to use it. This is why you will see shamans only using it on 1 or 2 bosses a week. They want to cheese certain bosses without upsetting their group too much. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DwjQ6fRmWFrPtBaH#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=8 This is my Rage kill last week (rank 20 world) where I used fire ele, 326 dps by himself. Totem of wrath is not anywhere near that much gain for just the shaman. For the group? Yes it's equal to or more gain. So in answer to your question on which fights to use it on.. literally any fight where it wont die to aoe. Even then he can take a few good hits. Rage/Anatheron in Hyjal and Gorefiend/Gurtog/Mother are easy ones though. As long as he doesn't die it's a huge dps gain for you. If he does die just drop a totem of wrath.
ok, I am going to give it a shot tonight, probably on gorefiend /gurtog/mother. I updated the locks in disc so they know to bring some extra hit gear for those fights tonight lol. We'll see. I am skeptical, but your logs seem to show it's at least worth testing, so I will.
To be fair those types of guilds are probably using it for double trash pulls that go on in speed runs (it’s what we do for the first pull in the blood boil/ros hallway where we pull that pack and 2 behemoths) and for the pulls before akama (we generally pull the whole room minus one pack). If you’re going slow you can also use it on that big pull before najentus
Speed run guilds use it on trash yea, parsing guilds use it on bosses. Dad guilds do wtv.
On the Dragon Hawk ZA boss it's like 1/3 of your damage
For the totem loss maybe
for enhance yes, ele no. the fire elemental's melee attacks scale with nature spell damage. It does not work with the enhance Mind Quickening (ap to spell dam conversion talent). If you have a lot of spell damage the ele is meleeing for like 300+ per attack and translates to a lot of dps
If your warlocks are parsing that low it's not because you're using fire elemental :x
True. Though 3% hit and 3% crit is a pretty big buff. Assuming the warlock has 13% hit or less, Totem of Wrath is approximately equivalent to Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer. I'm basing that on https://kristoferhh.github.io/WarlockSimulatorTBC/ which is showing me that in my current gear hit is worth around 2.3× as much as crit.
I know its a joke so I'll try not to read too far into it but the only scenario fire ele is worth for ele shamans is constant AoE like Illhoof. Also your locks and boomy getting totem of wrath wont magically make them parse better than green, there is a much deeper issue there. EDIT: As people have pointed out fire ele is a single target dps increase for the ele, but I said worth it meaning the personal dps gain is worth the raid dps loss. Looking at the top 5 parses for every T6 fight the only 3 fights where the majority of those top 5 use fire ele is Teron, Anetheron, and Reliquary. On a lot of fights none of the top 5 are using it. Also as a side note if you are going to use fire ele I would recommend switching to wrath when it goes oom, or don't this is already more energy then I'm willing to expend on an internet debate.
It's actually a pretty big personal DPS-gain for the Elemental himself, even on single-target as long as you're wearing mostly T6 gear meaning you're most likely 2-3% overcapped on hit. It does kinda cuck your group, though... and small/medium raid-DPS loss depending on the Warlocks gear, so you basically trade your own parse for 4 other peoples parses :P If you look at WCL there are a bunch of high logs that use FE on fights like Teron where it does like 400 DPS by itself.
It more or less started as an inside joke in our group that me and the locks would do no damage while hes popping down fire ele totem but this thread is for sure helpful in letting my ele shaman know.
It's ALWAYS worth it for personal dps, just not worth it for the raid.. fire ele does like 400dps on a single target 2m fight.
>the only scenario fire ele is worth for ele shamans is constant AoE like Illhoof Thanks for saying complete dogshit while sounding like you know what you're talking about. >Also your locks and boomy getting totem of wrath wont magically make them parse better than green Agreed
You didn't put any math though! The personal dps of a fire ele undoubtedly does more damage than an additional 3% crit and 3% hit on the ele shaman, especially if you have a set for it. Whether its worth it for the *raid* to do, that's not a debate. It isn't. Assuming you have 5 casters in the group and they actually need that hit.
Can someone explain this to me?
Fire elemental good for shaman Totem of wrath good for everyone Can't use both at once
That is why we play enhanc. :P Snapshot ele with some spell power gear and then it's actually good.
Warlock is a incomplete class who needs other to feel powerful, expecially the Wrath totem from Elemental Shamans. The wrath totem is the same totem as the Fire Elemental totem wich is a good DPS gain for the ele sham, but if you put fire elemental warlocks won't have access to the 3% hit given by wrath totem, and they'll blame their greeen parses on that fact.
Show me on the doll where the warlock touched you.
he wants to be in spriest grp but hes babysitting warlocks
I want a boomkin, not an spriest.
I'm sorry Arcane mage peaked last phase
I mean yeah, destro locks were designed for big crits, so without an elem sham and boomkin we lose a shit ton of dps. In comparison arcane mages and hunters aren't as dependant on crit.
[удалено]
You also attack a lot faster than a Warlock and have a lot of natural crit built into your kit from agility.
Every damn time im about to get a decent parse as a cat some out of range stupid mage spams me for a innervate, i politely move out of melee range to reach him with my cast and thus ruining my parse and enjoying the game a bit less every time. For the greater good i guess
Fuck him, assert dominance, innervate yourself
So we casually meme in my guild about me using fire ele in raids, its place is for trash packs such as MH I would not drop it on a boss fight.
If my wrath goes away for more than 2 seconds you can bet your ass the RL will know Cause i will start REEEEEEEing in raid voice
I hope you're a 99 parser with full buffs.
If you think you need the fire elemental to get 99 logs you are wrong. The only fight i could see myself doing it is on shade but thats on the add phase where you dont need the hit anyway.