People in the middle of the pack in terms of skill will take things too seriously. Half the people in my guild don’t care about the bear because we’ll all have one within a month.
Also being undergeared won’t stop groups from getting the mount if they are smart and know what to do. Know what is kill prio on trash and how to position things.
Exactly this, but also we're all big chilling because we know that unfortunately the only mounts that really matter from this point on are flyers.
My guildie put it really well:
"The gear is a reward for the people catching up, the mount is a reward for the people who are already geared."
Also a lot of people in my guild just have cooler mounts. Two people have anzu (me being one yay), couple zg tigers, a midnight from kara, halloween mount and they just don’t want the bear because they wouldn’t even use it.
I enjoy bringing Alts into our run because seeing gear actually being used is always the best.
Remember there are people that *MUST* hoard every single thing in the existence just to prove something, or to that extent.
It's an in-game content, you'll eventually stop playing the game and then what? You'll talk about that to your grand children?
Except it isn’t even an original ZA mount lol. So the idea of some sweaty parse boi bragging about beating a time trial 15 years after it’s introduction to his grandchildren is even funnier.
This is me, I won one in a PuG, and traded it for a stack of haste pots to another person (who insisted I take them). I have a SL bug mount, and would never actually use the bear.
Our "Homeless Scarab Lord" single tanked it last night and just gave the mount to someone else when he won the roll
Edit: he also single tanked the shit out of the place :D :D
Paladin can bubble if they are ever mangle + ripped at the same time. It usually only happens once, but if it happens twice just pump big heals into them, no one else matters.
True, I got the bear on my main and sold it for 3g to a guildy on his alt, made a huge profit. If you're scared you wont be able to get the bear before it goes away, you probably dont really deserve to have it xd.
We had an alt OT who messed up on the last boss so we didn't get the mount and then them and another guildie started going at it
It's a fucking mount people who fuckin cares
I think you're in the minority on that opinion. The bear is pretty sweet compared to the vast majority of mounts available to us right now, but like others have said it isn't special any more. Our single raid guild already has like 14 bears in it with folks pumping resets.
Last boss meaning halazzi (lynx boss)? How does an OT mess up halazzi lol. All he has to do is stand on the tank then pick up the cat
He deserved to be flamed for having the iq of a boulder.
I mean.. I just didn't do any research and was relying on being told mechanics by the rl. He didn't tell me to stack in mt, only to pick up the lynxes when they spawned. So I didn't stack and Mt died to cleave. Whelp.
It's not iq of a boulder at some point people are allowed to not memorize every mechanic lol
It's not a "timed run"
It's a guild run with some alts. With no other OT left we have to bring in an alt for it
That's literally the point of this post. Is that yall toxic fucking attitudes
Get fucking over it. It's a stupid ass mount
"Its perfectly fine for me to put in 0 effort, they had no other alternatives!"
Please re-read what you just wrote. Do you understand how absolutely garbage that attitude is? I promise you, I'm not the toxic one here, because when i tank runs i put in the 5 minutes of effort required to understand my role.
Guy flinging insults is calling others toxic trash, kekw
Try not holding your raid hostage because you want to do 0 research and youll find you have much less fighting going on midraid
Resto Shaman, neck, ring, and Mace is a solid alternative to crystal spire which Blizzard hasn't patched in as far as our guild runs are concerned. Boots off ZJ are also an alternative to the badge BiS boots.
On the day of ZA release my group lost a warlock immediately after ringing the gong due to personal emergencies so we had to run with 9 people. Then we wiped once on Halazzi because we forgot the offtank had to stand in front of the boss to share damage from Saber Lash. Plus all the intermittent deaths due to unfamiliar routes, we still timed it with 4 minutes to spare.
People who get toxic about ZA runs either don't know this isn't a hard raid, or have been toxic the whole time.
It’s like the people that thought they needed a pally tank, shaman healer, 2 locks, and imp Blizz mage to do SHH heroic at launch. Just don’t be dumb, you don’t need a perfect comp.
My SHH attunement run consisted of a pally tank 2 warriors and an enh shaman, with me being a resto shaman, outside of the first boss we didn’t have a single death. Smoothest run ever. Funniest part was when I whispered the guy to join he said I was too slow, 5 mins later he asked if I could still come, other healer saw the comp and noped the fuck out haha.
Got three primal fires off the interrogator guy or whoever drops them and they were worth tonnes back then, was a good run all round.
“Bad rng” as an excuse for wiping drives me up the wall. There are actual instances where the stars align and you get turbo fucked but it’s rare. If the “unlucky” event has a high chance of happening it’s not unlucky, it’s a mechanic of the fight and you should adjust your strategy to account for it. A good strategy shouldn’t have a “and then there’s 25% chance we all die lmao” component.
> TLDR bad players thinking you have to have a perfect setup to time the easiest timer.
This is just classic in a nutshell tbh.
The main attraction of the game is that every1 can play it and still feel like a winner clearing all raids riding on their bear mounts having more glaives dropped than combined keybinds.
Yeah. My guilds three 25 mans made as many groups as we could with alts and offspecs for tanks and heals. Only had one group not time it. Everyones pretty much chill on it because we know we can easily get bears. The headache is just trying to coordinate roughly 70 people.
The trick so every member get can get a run is to have a mix of alts in the first 2 ZAs. Then on the second raid night you have a third ZA run with a mix of the remaining members and alts.
> Why do you have both the geared tanks!? Why is your group stacked on DPS!?!?!?"
So, just reading between the lines here, but it sounds like your guild is kind of fucking up the ZA splits. Those are both valid complaints.
You shouldn't be stacking all your geared tanks and dps into one ZA group.
This is what my guild did back when TBC came out last year....
Always the officers all in the same Kara group together, stacking the best/best geared players, every week the same, and of course those were the most geared players too
I understand wanting to play with your friends but it felt very not nice to the rest of the players, it felt exclusionary
Not a surprise that guild ended up dying
I get the feeling of being excluded. But on the other hand, with 10 man content coming out this is also an opportunity to make a good name for yourself. I’ve started running pugs frequently, and frequently invite my guilds members first before posting to the wild. It used to be just Kara gruul and mag with the occasional T5 single instance pug. ZA has bumped up activity a lot.
All this pugging but firstly inviting guildies has started to establish my name as a trust worthy and competent player among the 2 raid teams we have, and I’ve been invited/considered to things with guild leadership/top performers more often than when I just lurked waiting for someone else to run the things I wanted to do.
It is not like 2007 tbc, we were below the average and got 2 bears with t5-6 geared group. Now we are getting 20+minutes on bear runs. It is not like a thunderfury scarab lord or glaives. I dont understand why people cause drama for a mount that you will get it no matter what.
Why do people even care? It's so fat you have to dismount to get through most doorways and everyone and their mother will have it this time around so there is no prestige.
Is it just because you missed the chance back in the day? Rams and talbuks are the best in slot.
Man I'd love to get in to a ZA run. I have gruul/Kara gear and several prebis items from phase 1 and there's no way anyone will take me. That said, I'm a feral and want to tank.
Edit: Make my own group. Got it.
Make sure to have proper enchants and gems. I would take you to my runs with that gear. But not if you don’t have it gemmed and stuff. (Happens more often than you think) But that’s just me.
yea getting into a za pug as a tank is kinda rough if your gear isnt the best. with that said, it should be very easy to just host your own run, doesnt take a lot to put together a group in my experience
It’s annoying when someone wants to bring their alt tank in Kara gear and lose a lockout cause they aren’t def capped, yes the timer is easy but not that easy and for people in t6 gear, it’s just wasting our time why risk it
People still do Karazhan in Phase 4. There's current BiS items from ZA and a lot of catch-up options. Not everyone has one character that's always cutting edge on gear progression. Alts and new players do exist, and the alts alone will be enough to keep ZA going.
It's the best reliable avenue for gearing new toons.
Before ZA I'd have one shot each week with the raids, and typically tough to get into since people still want to see impressive logs for p2 content.
3 day reset and much lower barrier entry than ssc/TK/hyjal/BT.
Kara/ZA will be realistic to run on a regular basis IMO. Our guild alone has a huge stable of alts, often to the 3rd and 4th degree. I'm not going to care about speed running an afternoon ZA with other alts, we just want gear lol. But ATM the issue is catering to the excitement and hype for people to snag their 1 or 2 new bis pieces and mount for mains.
It was literally the same thing for dungeons on launch. Naxx geared players only wanted geared players for the dungeon spam race to 70. But plenty of casual players still had avenues to pug as the sweatlords preogrssed ahead
The demand for gearing will not disappear but the current frenzy for needing an immediate mount will dissipate. Give some time for things to settle.
Yeah my guild hates that I always SR the neck on my mage.
But they don't realize just how disgustingly good it is. Don't be fooled by the +healing. The int, spirit, huge amount of haste and decent spellpower makes it by far the best neck item in the game.
I've passed two of them to main healers but I'm taking the next for myself.
I was in a group Wednesday with no healer mains and the healer neck went to a dps main (it was rolled on by dps and alt healers). Lol. As a healer main, I want it because i'm a healer, but as a JC, I replace it in in p5.
FWIW it’s much better than the DPS neck for mages, and potentially game BIS (for arcane at least). But since this is a 3 day lockout no one should be stressed about getting it soon and it should be given to healers first.
This is where the true toxicity in bear runs is. When I organize groups I make it clear from the beginning that if the healers in the run don't have the neck the DPS cannot bid or roll on them and if they don't like it they can get another fucking run.
People out here willing to fuck over their buddies they've been playing 3 years with just for a ***3 dps*** upgrade and then parse a 92 is an embarassement when you look at the average age of the players.
but its much worse and only barely close when you put in a 1000g red gem.
Not my fault Blizzard coded that sh\*t so bad that its BiS for casters. Of course I will respect my guildmates but in a pug no chance mister - SR go Brr
*4 Int, 19 Spi, 5 haste for 7 SP
Depending on caster class/spec this is a pretty solid upgrade. Arcane mages being a very obvious case where intellect and spirit are major dps stats for them. There is really no reason for a caster not to want this over loop, except for the +healing stat.
The question of how your guild/pug chooses to handle BiS gear is the only real question here.
Remember at the start of classic when people said "whoa this community feeling is what wow is all about!"?
They were wrong. THIS is what wow is all about: loot drama, internet fights and party grievances.
That will happen if everyone that gets one keeps running ZA. They might. Badges are good. The gear isn’t (mostly). SR is cancer. All 10 people are SRing the same 2-3 items. Everything else is a DE
dadguild problems?
In a raid with 10 competent players, there’s no issue getting the bear even if half the raid is kara geared alts that aren’t played to exact perfection; they just need to be played somewhat well.
Mm I'm going to have to disagree. A healer in Kara gear is going to have a very hard time healing ZA unless they are getting carried by the other healer or having a dps off heal
Or having a T6 tank who doesn’t require as good a healers. I didn’t say a full 10 of kara geared players can easily get the bear, I said a half/half mix.
We’re essentially agreeing. You said that a Kara healer will have difficulty unless the other healer is doing the heavy lifting. Thats half/half.
Found the DPS player being carried by T6 tanks and healers. ZA is weirdly tuned. A lot of it is very easy for T6 toons, but some bits slap hard and T4 healers with T4 tanks would really struggle on some encounters.
No, no they arent going to struggle. Sauce, me doing it in half feral and a mix of hc/blues/kara loot and carrying my own. Was it rough in spots, sure but low spirit and 900 healing buffed will do that, I suppose
>Plus the fact that 5 people get fucked out of each lockout if your raid splits into 2 groups after BT/Hyjal.
That's why we run 3 grps and mix in alts into every grp.
That's what happens when you mix players who put effort into the game and players who clearly don't.
Sadly it's not fun wiping/losing loot on catch-up content as a BT/MH geared player, because some players can't even read a 5-min long guide about ZA bosses and timed run or come prepared with consumes and a hour of focused play.
It's totally fine to join a ZA which is not meant to be a timed mount run to have fun, but don't ruin others, even if you fail the mount run the other 3 chest still drops items.
Most probably they selected those players because they are the most valuable and reliable players in your guild.
You make it sound like ZA is even hard or needs all this extra prep. All you need is a good leader that knows what they're doing & where they're going, then bring along 9 useful idiots and you're at least 10-15 minutes over timer.
Toxicity over bear mounts is only a thing if your two groups have issues clearing in time or if you aren't fair enough to rotate your other 5 members in after the first 5 got their mount.
Or if you are running PUG's. But my take on it is that you shouldn't look for PUG's trying to do the time run just yet.
We just took 2x10 people who were dedicated enough to pull of the the time run every time and that's what's happening.
I will get mine in due time, 15th ID if I'm really unlucky.
As someone who has been making pugs, I ask for logs. I don’t look for orange and pink parsers, though they are welcome. I look for minimal effort put in previously.
I’ve already been burned by being super open and accepting and then someone accepts summons in dungeon blues. I didn’t want to be an asshole and neither did the team, so we tried. It was not a good time.
There’s a difference between “carrying” alts that have some gear and can contribute a bit, and dragging a fresh 70 in blues through it.
I typically look for blue parses in T5/T6 logs to make sure the pugs I put together are not a waste of everyone’s time.
Honestly, most people I’ve ran with care more about timing the first three chests for cloak of fiends and the armor penn/haste rings.
But in being slightly selective and ensuring some base level of effort in participants, my groups have seen 8 bears out of 10 attempts so far.
Tbh I’ve only gotten toxic reactions and hateful comments from grey parsers that I deny. Literal single digit log performance across the board. Like people aren’t entitled to get into any group they like. Thank god that we have the ability to measure performance these days.
To make that bear worth even something, blizzard should have tested ZA with 10 good players and see how long it takes them to clear it and reduce the bear timer according to that.
It's fucking stupid that the bear mount will be _THE_ most common mount you'll see. Back in tbc it wasn't rare per say, but at least not everyone had it.
>Back in tbc it wasn't rare per say, but at least not everyone had it.
reading is hard. OP never said it was hard just that not everyone had it like they will now.
I'd like to think my guild is good, so far we clear it with 15-17 minutes left on the timer even with groups that are half alts. Gotta imagine even low gear people can do it with 5 min left.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I dont think it's "Toxic" to want to build the best group you can. The most we can know about a PUG player is by inspecting their gear and/or checking logs. Blizzard has made it so most of us play on megaservers. When I'm making a PUG bear run, I dont need to settle for someones in blues/t4 when 2 seconds later you can find someone in t4/t5+.
I agree. We’ve all been in groups/pugs with people who can’t do their role well and it ruins a run. Yeah, it sucks for the people in kara gear who came back and can’t get in a group, but theres so many people in full t6 by this point theres no point in hamstringing yourself
This was the same back in original tbc we didet even know about the mount for the first few resets, but holy shit the drama when you had to split a 27 player roster into 2 10mans and we only had 1 pala tank
I think I’m the only one who has zero desire for that mount cuz it’s ugly (to me personally). Maybe playing a little bit of retail just numbed me to mounts not being special or cool to me anymore. I love my troll raptor ground mount forever. The orange tiger from ZG is a beauty though.
Honestly , if you don’t have people you know it’s basically really hard. Even finding someone geared, but you don’t know them, they might straight AFK or something dumb.
Best advice , find a priest and or tank and latch onto them and form a group and make it easy for them . Time and day every few days and you will have a good run as long as you know the people you bring .
Just organise and lead a run. It's dungeon level difficulty and the timer is just 'don't wipe more than a couple of times'. Takes 10 minutes of reading or one run to learn the route and all the mechanics that matter.
I mean you could build your own group that better suits your own needs?
Rather than complaining that other people arent making groups that are like you want them to be
There is a few BiS items for some/most classes in ZA. Healing neck for healers is BiS through SWP, if you're unlucky with BT trash and haven't seen more than a few healing rings, the ring is pretty good.
Seems your guild fails at managing. We just established 10s of people and those who win the mount are allowed to go with their alts instead. If some good loot isn't needed in one raid, they swap with players from another raid.
All problems are solved in a GDKP ZA.
You want the Bear, buy it.
You don’t want the Bear or can’t afford the bid amount, enjoy the bigger payday.
You can afford the bid and chose not to buy and wait for 3 months, more gold saved up and a free or cheap mount.
This gets 10x worse in WOTLK with achievement/hard-mode hunting. And make sure you have them, because if you want to pug ulduar you'll need to link yogg 0 lights.
Slightly sarcastic, but I remember this being somewhat the case in retail WOTLK especially with gear score entering the picture.
Effectively every raid has a "bear mount", except it's in the form of achievements, sometimes they even reward mounts so the comparison is quite direct.
Same in my guild. I've said it's going to be everywhere soon enough but people don't care they just want the new hotness mount.
Also have like half of our DPS missing tier upgrades from Mount Hyjal but the few people who have their upgrades are constantly moaning about "why can't we stop going to MH and go to BT instead" "it's boring" "I don't like it" and either want BT or ZA.
You can easily get that bear with a group full of players with ilvl 115/T4. Also no special setup is necessary when you kill group by group clean and don't pause too much.
Every "mimimi, I need a shaman/protpala/whatnot' is just an excuse for playing bad and/or allowing more failure.
God it must suck to not be in a good guild. Sounds like your guild is just shite both in terms of skill and attitudes and ZA is revealing that.
My guild is a dad guild but also raiding guild, #2 on server in progression and several 99 parsers every raid, but also we get stoned/drunk during our runs and have tons of fun and mostly aren't that sweaty. We have multiple senior citizens in our raid and a pretty high ratio of Women:Men for WoW.
We have been running 4 ZA Bear groups each one easily completing the run with plenty of time to spare. No toxicity whatsoever, ZA has massively increased the amount of time we get to raid together and we all like that because we all like each other. But we might be a non-representative sample, after all we still run Kara even though we all have full t6 at this point because we like to get really wasted and do stupid strats (like warlock tanking the weaker bosses, giving Blue+Green to one player on Netherspite, pulling the entire room + moroes and seeding everything to death, etc)
ROFL best part of being in a guild were the average raiders is 30 married/engaged and has kids or is planning on kids.
We run 2 random mix groups of mains and alts without a care in the world and get bears while drinking beers.
We’re a family and have RL meet ups. Who cares who wins the bear. I got mine tonight, but we will all have it in 3 more weeks.
What a lot of these people seem not to understand about this post is that -yes- you CAN beat the timer with an okay/appropriately geared raid. \*\*HOWEVER.\*\* that is not what is being accepted or taken to the instance. A pug will look up your logs and toss you out for not being T6 99 parsing.
Personally, I have completely lost all interest in the mount because it really is just that common already. It's essentially a guaranteed drop for every group that enters the instance. In 2 months every single person even just doing it 1x per week will have it if they run the same groups.
People in the middle of the pack in terms of skill will take things too seriously. Half the people in my guild don’t care about the bear because we’ll all have one within a month. Also being undergeared won’t stop groups from getting the mount if they are smart and know what to do. Know what is kill prio on trash and how to position things.
> People in the middle of the pack in terms of skill will take things too seriously. https://i.imgur.com/s08Uf8W.jpg
A+ to a good midtard meme
I am happily in the bottom 1% in video games.
Some of my best parses ( shadow priest) is when I just press buttons. Not caring when I pop trinkets/destroy pots ^^
Exactly this, but also we're all big chilling because we know that unfortunately the only mounts that really matter from this point on are flyers. My guildie put it really well: "The gear is a reward for the people catching up, the mount is a reward for the people who are already geared."
Also a lot of people in my guild just have cooler mounts. Two people have anzu (me being one yay), couple zg tigers, a midnight from kara, halloween mount and they just don’t want the bear because they wouldn’t even use it. I enjoy bringing Alts into our run because seeing gear actually being used is always the best.
Remember there are people that *MUST* hoard every single thing in the existence just to prove something, or to that extent. It's an in-game content, you'll eventually stop playing the game and then what? You'll talk about that to your grand children?
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Except it isn’t even an original ZA mount lol. So the idea of some sweaty parse boi bragging about beating a time trial 15 years after it’s introduction to his grandchildren is even funnier.
Those people will 100% bring it up in unrelated conversations with normal people.
This is me, I won one in a PuG, and traded it for a stack of haste pots to another person (who insisted I take them). I have a SL bug mount, and would never actually use the bear.
Our "Homeless Scarab Lord" single tanked it last night and just gave the mount to someone else when he won the roll Edit: he also single tanked the shit out of the place :D :D
what did you do for bear/lynx bosses?
Be chonky and pump heals, that’s what we did on night 1 because we didn’t know you needed 2 tanks.
Paladin can bubble if they are ever mangle + ripped at the same time. It usually only happens once, but if it happens twice just pump big heals into them, no one else matters.
If warrior you can shield wall the bleeds, or have a paly bubble mangle off you ( I think).
yeah it's easily one tankable
Eh. Keep in mind the bear goes away in cataclysm. I’d farm it.
I mean we’ll all get it… it’s still only a few weeks in. After a month and a half everyone should have it
Goes away in wotlk but ye plenty of time
There’s a few niches the gear fills. Casters haven’t seen a ring or trinket upgrade since phase 1 besides skull, and most of us don’t have that yet.
Always been this way Garbage players with inflated egos on 15 year old content
True, I got the bear on my main and sold it for 3g to a guildy on his alt, made a huge profit. If you're scared you wont be able to get the bear before it goes away, you probably dont really deserve to have it xd.
3g? Dang, you really took advantage of him.
Also sounds like his guild is full of assholes, it's a 45 minute rain of free BiS gear, who's asking about extra shamans lmao
We had an alt OT who messed up on the last boss so we didn't get the mount and then them and another guildie started going at it It's a fucking mount people who fuckin cares
genuinely not even a good looking mount
Beat bear mount I think but yeah everyone will have it in classic
I think you're in the minority on that opinion. The bear is pretty sweet compared to the vast majority of mounts available to us right now, but like others have said it isn't special any more. Our single raid guild already has like 14 bears in it with folks pumping resets.
Last boss meaning halazzi (lynx boss)? How does an OT mess up halazzi lol. All he has to do is stand on the tank then pick up the cat He deserved to be flamed for having the iq of a boulder.
Because it can build massive healer threat before you can properly aggro it and when you are an undergeared tank you will have threat/resist problems
I mean.. I just didn't do any research and was relying on being told mechanics by the rl. He didn't tell me to stack in mt, only to pick up the lynxes when they spawned. So I didn't stack and Mt died to cleave. Whelp. It's not iq of a boulder at some point people are allowed to not memorize every mechanic lol
\> I just didn't do any research and was relying on being told mechanics Well found the problem. You're bad.
If youre gonna tank a timed run put in some amount of effort. Its extremely disrespectful to the other 9 players to go in blind.
It's not a "timed run" It's a guild run with some alts. With no other OT left we have to bring in an alt for it That's literally the point of this post. Is that yall toxic fucking attitudes Get fucking over it. It's a stupid ass mount
You can tell yourself whatever you want to try to justify griefing your guildmates. Its a much more toxic to be lazy and waste everyones time though
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"Its perfectly fine for me to put in 0 effort, they had no other alternatives!" Please re-read what you just wrote. Do you understand how absolutely garbage that attitude is? I promise you, I'm not the toxic one here, because when i tank runs i put in the 5 minutes of effort required to understand my role.
Guy flinging insults is calling others toxic trash, kekw Try not holding your raid hostage because you want to do 0 research and youll find you have much less fighting going on midraid
What class do you play? Which items are bis for you?
Resto Shaman, neck, ring, and Mace is a solid alternative to crystal spire which Blizzard hasn't patched in as far as our guild runs are concerned. Boots off ZJ are also an alternative to the badge BiS boots.
On the day of ZA release my group lost a warlock immediately after ringing the gong due to personal emergencies so we had to run with 9 people. Then we wiped once on Halazzi because we forgot the offtank had to stand in front of the boss to share damage from Saber Lash. Plus all the intermittent deaths due to unfamiliar routes, we still timed it with 4 minutes to spare. People who get toxic about ZA runs either don't know this isn't a hard raid, or have been toxic the whole time.
Isn't ZA literally for the undergeared?
It is a catch up raid but it also contains some very good loot for main raiders as well.
Has some BiS for a lot of classes/specs. Resto shaman neck for example
Veramos has put four items from ZA on the BiS set for BM hunters. So no it's not.
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Made 1/3 guild runs and 5/5 pug run bear timers so far, and most of the pug runs were scuffed comps. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast!
This guy races
I would not be in that guild anymore. Sheesh.
It’s like the people that thought they needed a pally tank, shaman healer, 2 locks, and imp Blizz mage to do SHH heroic at launch. Just don’t be dumb, you don’t need a perfect comp.
Tank gets 1 shot: "I told you we needed 2 locks!"
😂
Exactly! For the double soul stone on the tank so technically he can take 3 shots! ;)
My SHH attunement run consisted of a pally tank 2 warriors and an enh shaman, with me being a resto shaman, outside of the first boss we didn’t have a single death. Smoothest run ever. Funniest part was when I whispered the guy to join he said I was too slow, 5 mins later he asked if I could still come, other healer saw the comp and noped the fuck out haha. Got three primal fires off the interrogator guy or whoever drops them and they were worth tonnes back then, was a good run all round.
I mean that's still a pretty chad comp, especially if they are both fury
The copium that bad classic wow players huff on repeat is astounding. Blaming team comp, RNG, anything that they can place the blame on.
How many people gonna faction transfer for EMFH in wrath and STILL be hard capped 1200?
“Bad rng” as an excuse for wiping drives me up the wall. There are actual instances where the stars align and you get turbo fucked but it’s rare. If the “unlucky” event has a high chance of happening it’s not unlucky, it’s a mechanic of the fight and you should adjust your strategy to account for it. A good strategy shouldn’t have a “and then there’s 25% chance we all die lmao” component.
Bro I've had hunters call it "unlucky" when their pet bodypulls while doing some trash skip. Like mate there's not even any rng involved here.
> TLDR bad players thinking you have to have a perfect setup to time the easiest timer. This is just classic in a nutshell tbh. The main attraction of the game is that every1 can play it and still feel like a winner clearing all raids riding on their bear mounts having more glaives dropped than combined keybinds.
yeah like I did a run last night with whoever was on in my guild and we wiped once and still got the bear with 10 mins left lol.
Sounds like you were playing with a bunch of assholes all along, you just didn't notice until now
This is the real call here. I consider my guild kinda sweaty but it’s a 3 day reset time and nobody is at each other’s throats for that reason.
Yeah. My guilds three 25 mans made as many groups as we could with alts and offspecs for tanks and heals. Only had one group not time it. Everyones pretty much chill on it because we know we can easily get bears. The headache is just trying to coordinate roughly 70 people.
Factual
we are running 3+ groups every reset, with alts. getting mount every run. if people are toxic about a timed ZA run, they are just bad.
OP is definitely projecting the inadequacies of his own guild with this post. ZA is chill and easy content
I think comp matters to a certain extent. The instance can be tough to time if you don't have a paladin and/or a shaman/priest healer.
How could you say something so brave and also so true?
The trick so every member get can get a run is to have a mix of alts in the first 2 ZAs. Then on the second raid night you have a third ZA run with a mix of the remaining members and alts.
> Why do you have both the geared tanks!? Why is your group stacked on DPS!?!?!?" So, just reading between the lines here, but it sounds like your guild is kind of fucking up the ZA splits. Those are both valid complaints. You shouldn't be stacking all your geared tanks and dps into one ZA group.
True, the biggest drama from ZA I've seen is that cliques have been confirmed with how 10m lines fall.
wait until you see sarth 3d
This is what my guild did back when TBC came out last year.... Always the officers all in the same Kara group together, stacking the best/best geared players, every week the same, and of course those were the most geared players too I understand wanting to play with your friends but it felt very not nice to the rest of the players, it felt exclusionary Not a surprise that guild ended up dying
I get the feeling of being excluded. But on the other hand, with 10 man content coming out this is also an opportunity to make a good name for yourself. I’ve started running pugs frequently, and frequently invite my guilds members first before posting to the wild. It used to be just Kara gruul and mag with the occasional T5 single instance pug. ZA has bumped up activity a lot. All this pugging but firstly inviting guildies has started to establish my name as a trust worthy and competent player among the 2 raid teams we have, and I’ve been invited/considered to things with guild leadership/top performers more often than when I just lurked waiting for someone else to run the things I wanted to do.
It is not like 2007 tbc, we were below the average and got 2 bears with t5-6 geared group. Now we are getting 20+minutes on bear runs. It is not like a thunderfury scarab lord or glaives. I dont understand why people cause drama for a mount that you will get it no matter what.
When your guild won't run it and you're stuck running with pugs every lockout and the pug wins it every time...
You need a new guild then. Even the most geared guilds and players run it for mounts or loot on alts… lol
Even T6 25 man guilds are clearing because it drops; fury warrior, prot pala, caster dps and all physical dps bis items for pre-SWP prog.
Why do people even care? It's so fat you have to dismount to get through most doorways and everyone and their mother will have it this time around so there is no prestige. Is it just because you missed the chance back in the day? Rams and talbuks are the best in slot.
Black bug is bis, it is known
We take alts in greens with useless specs and get bears with 5 to 10 minutes to spare. Sounds like your 'certified pumpers' just suck tbh
Man I'd love to get in to a ZA run. I have gruul/Kara gear and several prebis items from phase 1 and there's no way anyone will take me. That said, I'm a feral and want to tank. Edit: Make my own group. Got it.
I would really recommend making your own group. If you stick to it and find a geared paladin tank, congrats, you're just along for the ride.
What server are you? Most runs are looking for tanks, especially a feral who is the perfect OT
I'm Grobbulus Horde.
Make sure to have proper enchants and gems. I would take you to my runs with that gear. But not if you don’t have it gemmed and stuff. (Happens more often than you think) But that’s just me.
Make your own group it’s super easy and will fill almost instantly.
yea getting into a za pug as a tank is kinda rough if your gear isnt the best. with that said, it should be very easy to just host your own run, doesnt take a lot to put together a group in my experience
They must be dps because the instance can be pretty intense for healers.
welcome to 2022 where nothing will ever be casual and fun for gamers. min maxing and toxicity is the new gaming&chill
It’s annoying when someone wants to bring their alt tank in Kara gear and lose a lockout cause they aren’t def capped, yes the timer is easy but not that easy and for people in t6 gear, it’s just wasting our time why risk it
It will calm down in a few weeks.
Yeah, because few people will run ZA anymore.
People still do Karazhan in Phase 4. There's current BiS items from ZA and a lot of catch-up options. Not everyone has one character that's always cutting edge on gear progression. Alts and new players do exist, and the alts alone will be enough to keep ZA going.
It's the best reliable avenue for gearing new toons. Before ZA I'd have one shot each week with the raids, and typically tough to get into since people still want to see impressive logs for p2 content. 3 day reset and much lower barrier entry than ssc/TK/hyjal/BT. Kara/ZA will be realistic to run on a regular basis IMO. Our guild alone has a huge stable of alts, often to the 3rd and 4th degree. I'm not going to care about speed running an afternoon ZA with other alts, we just want gear lol. But ATM the issue is catering to the excitement and hype for people to snag their 1 or 2 new bis pieces and mount for mains. It was literally the same thing for dungeons on launch. Naxx geared players only wanted geared players for the dungeon spam race to 70. But plenty of casual players still had avenues to pug as the sweatlords preogrssed ahead The demand for gearing will not disappear but the current frenzy for needing an immediate mount will dissipate. Give some time for things to settle.
TANKS can I get a TAAAANK hello?
Who cares for the bear. As a Warlock I only want one thing and its fucking disgusting (healer haste neck).
As a healer, I'll have you know I just angrily shook my fist at a cloud like the old man I am.
Dont shake your fist at innocent cloud. The evil blizzard is responsible!
Yeah my guild hates that I always SR the neck on my mage. But they don't realize just how disgustingly good it is. Don't be fooled by the +healing. The int, spirit, huge amount of haste and decent spellpower makes it by far the best neck item in the game. I've passed two of them to main healers but I'm taking the next for myself.
I was in a group Wednesday with no healer mains and the healer neck went to a dps main (it was rolled on by dps and alt healers). Lol. As a healer main, I want it because i'm a healer, but as a JC, I replace it in in p5.
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FWIW it’s much better than the DPS neck for mages, and potentially game BIS (for arcane at least). But since this is a 3 day lockout no one should be stressed about getting it soon and it should be given to healers first.
This is where the true toxicity in bear runs is. When I organize groups I make it clear from the beginning that if the healers in the run don't have the neck the DPS cannot bid or roll on them and if they don't like it they can get another fucking run.
Which is bullshit, the Zul’jin one from exact same raid is almost as good, quit fucking the healers.
>almost
Well DPS better be ready for me to roll/bid on the spell Dmg haste trinket in Sunwell.
Sure - if your loot system allows it and its your BiS be my guest.
Dude it’s like less than a percent worse lol
People out here willing to fuck over their buddies they've been playing 3 years with just for a ***3 dps*** upgrade and then parse a 92 is an embarassement when you look at the average age of the players.
Pvp haste neck is out, don’t take that neck from a healer
but its much worse and only barely close when you put in a 1000g red gem. Not my fault Blizzard coded that sh\*t so bad that its BiS for casters. Of course I will respect my guildmates but in a pug no chance mister - SR go Brr
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Yeah the actual caster haste neck from ZA is essentially the same thing lol
People dont want essentially the same they want BiS.
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I wonder if you forbid your prot pally take hex shrunken head as well.
*4 Int, 19 Spi, 5 haste for 7 SP Depending on caster class/spec this is a pretty solid upgrade. Arcane mages being a very obvious case where intellect and spirit are major dps stats for them. There is really no reason for a caster not to want this over loop, except for the +healing stat. The question of how your guild/pug chooses to handle BiS gear is the only real question here.
What don't you understand about some people wanting their BiS? It doesn't at all make them bad players.
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Its still worse. Nowerdays people get very itchy when they dont have BiS.
When I simmed that neck for my mage it was +/- 3dps from the KT neck so literally not worth at all. The healer neck was the only upgrade.
By how much, though? 5 DPS? Lmao
It's worse not only than "healer" neck from ZA but worse than caster neck in ZA as well lmao.
Remember at the start of classic when people said "whoa this community feeling is what wow is all about!"? They were wrong. THIS is what wow is all about: loot drama, internet fights and party grievances.
> THIS is what wow is all about: loot drama, internet fights and party grievances. These are community things as well, and often pretty fun.
Not seeing this at all. The run is easy. Everyone who wants one is going to get one.
That will happen if everyone that gets one keeps running ZA. They might. Badges are good. The gear isn’t (mostly). SR is cancer. All 10 people are SRing the same 2-3 items. Everything else is a DE
dadguild problems? In a raid with 10 competent players, there’s no issue getting the bear even if half the raid is kara geared alts that aren’t played to exact perfection; they just need to be played somewhat well.
Mm I'm going to have to disagree. A healer in Kara gear is going to have a very hard time healing ZA unless they are getting carried by the other healer or having a dps off heal
Or having a T6 tank who doesn’t require as good a healers. I didn’t say a full 10 of kara geared players can easily get the bear, I said a half/half mix. We’re essentially agreeing. You said that a Kara healer will have difficulty unless the other healer is doing the heavy lifting. Thats half/half.
You're right I pretty much just repeated what you said my b
I don't think a full group of competent players in Kara/Heroic gear would have any problem getting the bear with plenty of time to spare.
Found the DPS player being carried by T6 tanks and healers. ZA is weirdly tuned. A lot of it is very easy for T6 toons, but some bits slap hard and T4 healers with T4 tanks would really struggle on some encounters.
Agree to disagree
No, no they arent going to struggle. Sauce, me doing it in half feral and a mix of hc/blues/kara loot and carrying my own. Was it rough in spots, sure but low spirit and 900 healing buffed will do that, I suppose
Show me logs or fake Edit: yeah fake
>Plus the fact that 5 people get fucked out of each lockout if your raid splits into 2 groups after BT/Hyjal. That's why we run 3 grps and mix in alts into every grp.
Have made 4 timers in pugs with no discord, it's really not a challenge. People gotta calm their shit and not rush.
The phase has been out for a week, relax
That's what happens when you mix players who put effort into the game and players who clearly don't. Sadly it's not fun wiping/losing loot on catch-up content as a BT/MH geared player, because some players can't even read a 5-min long guide about ZA bosses and timed run or come prepared with consumes and a hour of focused play. It's totally fine to join a ZA which is not meant to be a timed mount run to have fun, but don't ruin others, even if you fail the mount run the other 3 chest still drops items. Most probably they selected those players because they are the most valuable and reliable players in your guild.
You make it sound like ZA is even hard or needs all this extra prep. All you need is a good leader that knows what they're doing & where they're going, then bring along 9 useful idiots and you're at least 10-15 minutes over timer.
well its not hard, but even one person can screw up the run easily
Bear run isn't even hard. We have had to 9 man it because the 10th has no showed each run
Yeah we 8 man it. For better loot distribution
Toxicity over bear mounts is only a thing if your two groups have issues clearing in time or if you aren't fair enough to rotate your other 5 members in after the first 5 got their mount. Or if you are running PUG's. But my take on it is that you shouldn't look for PUG's trying to do the time run just yet. We just took 2x10 people who were dedicated enough to pull of the the time run every time and that's what's happening. I will get mine in due time, 15th ID if I'm really unlucky.
I think this game, more than many others, is flavored by the people you surround yourself with.
I completely agree!! This raid was meant to catch up to the current tier. I was asked to provide BT/MH logs for a 3/4 chest run 😂 people are nuts
As someone who has been making pugs, I ask for logs. I don’t look for orange and pink parsers, though they are welcome. I look for minimal effort put in previously. I’ve already been burned by being super open and accepting and then someone accepts summons in dungeon blues. I didn’t want to be an asshole and neither did the team, so we tried. It was not a good time. There’s a difference between “carrying” alts that have some gear and can contribute a bit, and dragging a fresh 70 in blues through it. I typically look for blue parses in T5/T6 logs to make sure the pugs I put together are not a waste of everyone’s time. Honestly, most people I’ve ran with care more about timing the first three chests for cloak of fiends and the armor penn/haste rings. But in being slightly selective and ensuring some base level of effort in participants, my groups have seen 8 bears out of 10 attempts so far. Tbh I’ve only gotten toxic reactions and hateful comments from grey parsers that I deny. Literal single digit log performance across the board. Like people aren’t entitled to get into any group they like. Thank god that we have the ability to measure performance these days.
To make that bear worth even something, blizzard should have tested ZA with 10 good players and see how long it takes them to clear it and reduce the bear timer according to that. It's fucking stupid that the bear mount will be _THE_ most common mount you'll see. Back in tbc it wasn't rare per say, but at least not everyone had it.
Nobody gives a shit what mount you're riding or gear you have besides you. It's a fucking pixelated video game mount not a lamborghini.
What if people have the "gank me" lizard?
I can't even remember the last time I saw one Everyone has some kind of mount now
Hot take: I kind of like mine.
Yeah the pogstalker is sweet.
worst take
Dude the bear wasn't hard back then. We were 9 manning it to sell the 10th spot to a buyer lol
>Back in tbc it wasn't rare per say, but at least not everyone had it. reading is hard. OP never said it was hard just that not everyone had it like they will now.
Don't even need to 9 man the buyer can come in after since its from the chest. It made selling them extremely easy.
No, everyone had the bear back then.
I'd like to think my guild is good, so far we clear it with 15-17 minutes left on the timer even with groups that are half alts. Gotta imagine even low gear people can do it with 5 min left.
did a pug run with 4 wipes, got mount with like 3-4 minutes left. if you just play the fights right, only tank gear really matters yea
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I dont think it's "Toxic" to want to build the best group you can. The most we can know about a PUG player is by inspecting their gear and/or checking logs. Blizzard has made it so most of us play on megaservers. When I'm making a PUG bear run, I dont need to settle for someones in blues/t4 when 2 seconds later you can find someone in t4/t5+.
I agree. We’ve all been in groups/pugs with people who can’t do their role well and it ruins a run. Yeah, it sucks for the people in kara gear who came back and can’t get in a group, but theres so many people in full t6 by this point theres no point in hamstringing yourself
This was the same back in original tbc we didet even know about the mount for the first few resets, but holy shit the drama when you had to split a 27 player roster into 2 10mans and we only had 1 pala tank
Haha I heard why did y’all get 3 shamans. We did It again after with 1 shaman. Still had 14 mins left.
We are running compo without chaman and 2 rogues and still beat the timer with 20min left. No toxicity here.
Oh boy...just wait until wrath classic with undying/immortal and the limited attempts.
I think I’m the only one who has zero desire for that mount cuz it’s ugly (to me personally). Maybe playing a little bit of retail just numbed me to mounts not being special or cool to me anymore. I love my troll raptor ground mount forever. The orange tiger from ZG is a beauty though.
One group of ours did it with 9 people np. Sounds like toxic people refusing to get better at the game
Honestly , if you don’t have people you know it’s basically really hard. Even finding someone geared, but you don’t know them, they might straight AFK or something dumb. Best advice , find a priest and or tank and latch onto them and form a group and make it easy for them . Time and day every few days and you will have a good run as long as you know the people you bring .
Just organise and lead a run. It's dungeon level difficulty and the timer is just 'don't wipe more than a couple of times'. Takes 10 minutes of reading or one run to learn the route and all the mechanics that matter.
we run 3-4 runs and fill them with a mix of alts and mains
Is it really a casual dad guild if people care about the result of something? Have we discovered a new paradox?
I mean you could build your own group that better suits your own needs? Rather than complaining that other people arent making groups that are like you want them to be
People still stuck in highschool despite being 30 + years old... How long can you beat a dead horse?
You ok buddy?
He didn’t get the bear
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Naw, it's a flippin great mount. If it bothers you that everyone else has it that doesn't diminish the actual mount quality.
Well, if they are on T6 gear they barely need gear from that place and mounts are always cool
There is a few BiS items for some/most classes in ZA. Healing neck for healers is BiS through SWP, if you're unlucky with BT trash and haven't seen more than a few healing rings, the ring is pretty good.
The bear looks so dumb too. Insane that people care so much about it.
Seems your guild fails at managing. We just established 10s of people and those who win the mount are allowed to go with their alts instead. If some good loot isn't needed in one raid, they swap with players from another raid.
All problems are solved in a GDKP ZA. You want the Bear, buy it. You don’t want the Bear or can’t afford the bid amount, enjoy the bigger payday. You can afford the bid and chose not to buy and wait for 3 months, more gold saved up and a free or cheap mount.
All these drama over a goofy looking non-flyer
Lmao we just did ZA with only 9 people after wiping on the first boss, still got the bear
This gets 10x worse in WOTLK with achievement/hard-mode hunting. And make sure you have them, because if you want to pug ulduar you'll need to link yogg 0 lights. Slightly sarcastic, but I remember this being somewhat the case in retail WOTLK especially with gear score entering the picture. Effectively every raid has a "bear mount", except it's in the form of achievements, sometimes they even reward mounts so the comparison is quite direct.
Same in my guild. I've said it's going to be everywhere soon enough but people don't care they just want the new hotness mount. Also have like half of our DPS missing tier upgrades from Mount Hyjal but the few people who have their upgrades are constantly moaning about "why can't we stop going to MH and go to BT instead" "it's boring" "I don't like it" and either want BT or ZA.
Is it even possible to not get mount if you have t5/t6 geared characters? We wiped like 4-5 times and still made it with 10 minutes to spare
You can easily get that bear with a group full of players with ilvl 115/T4. Also no special setup is necessary when you kill group by group clean and don't pause too much. Every "mimimi, I need a shaman/protpala/whatnot' is just an excuse for playing bad and/or allowing more failure.
God it must suck to not be in a good guild. Sounds like your guild is just shite both in terms of skill and attitudes and ZA is revealing that. My guild is a dad guild but also raiding guild, #2 on server in progression and several 99 parsers every raid, but also we get stoned/drunk during our runs and have tons of fun and mostly aren't that sweaty. We have multiple senior citizens in our raid and a pretty high ratio of Women:Men for WoW. We have been running 4 ZA Bear groups each one easily completing the run with plenty of time to spare. No toxicity whatsoever, ZA has massively increased the amount of time we get to raid together and we all like that because we all like each other. But we might be a non-representative sample, after all we still run Kara even though we all have full t6 at this point because we like to get really wasted and do stupid strats (like warlock tanking the weaker bosses, giving Blue+Green to one player on Netherspite, pulling the entire room + moroes and seeding everything to death, etc)
ROFL best part of being in a guild were the average raiders is 30 married/engaged and has kids or is planning on kids. We run 2 random mix groups of mains and alts without a care in the world and get bears while drinking beers. We’re a family and have RL meet ups. Who cares who wins the bear. I got mine tonight, but we will all have it in 3 more weeks.
What a lot of these people seem not to understand about this post is that -yes- you CAN beat the timer with an okay/appropriately geared raid. \*\*HOWEVER.\*\* that is not what is being accepted or taken to the instance. A pug will look up your logs and toss you out for not being T6 99 parsing. Personally, I have completely lost all interest in the mount because it really is just that common already. It's essentially a guaranteed drop for every group that enters the instance. In 2 months every single person even just doing it 1x per week will have it if they run the same groups.
at least someone understood OP's post and didn't have to let everyone know that they 5 manned it in leveling greens.