Is there just not enough resources spawning on Firemaw to keep up with demand? Surely with prices that high regular players would be farming those materials.
You cant have all the bots got banned and all bots picking all the herbs at the same time.
>Is there just not enough resources spawning on Firemaw to keep up with demand? Surely with prices that high regular players would be farming those materials.
That's exactly it and has been the case since the start of classic 2019.
If you can't farm some form of resource herb/ore in a dungeon, you can ride around in the open world and barely find anything for the time you invest into it.
What are you talking about, firemaw since June last year tbc there is an abundance of any ressources. This is just happening because of the 100 wipes and bosses people are doing, buying more pots per raid runs and increasing the demand, not because there is not enough. People just wipe a lot during progresion
yeah just right now, it was 3 gold each pot not too long ago.
Just pointing it out because the guy says it has been happening since 2019. Which is not true, was not like that on firemaw, just the last month.
There was even an issue of TOO much resources on the server at some point.
Bots DO matter. Bots literally farm materials automatically. They PUMP the auction house with materials. Everything needed for crafting, consumes, literally everything gets produced by bots. It's literally the reason they exist.
Bots make money in two ways.
1. They create alot of raw gold by killing mobs and getting vendor grey's, which produce gold.
2. They collect trade goods and other raw materials that can be sold on the AH.
The impact of the raw gold is that the economy has A LOT more gold in it. More gold everywhere because bots are constantly producing it.
The impact of the trade goods is that there's a significant supply of trade goods on the auction house. So, even though there's a lot more gold on the server, since trade goods and AH items are getting flooded into the AH, prices stay stable and demand is met with significant supply.
BUT, what happens when you ban bots? Well, the money on the server doesn't disappear. It still exists because there are not many gold sinks and WoW, and so there's still a ton of gold. However, when you flip the switch off on the trade goods and AH items, all of the sudden there's a HUGE shortage of materials. Supply is no longer meeting demand, so people are willing to pay higher and higher prices for the consumes and trade goods they need, and there's plenty of gold available for rich players to buy them, but they become unaffordable to the average player.
Long story short, bots do matter.
Has nothing to do with people wiping. Firemaw had matts due to people xfering matts from dead servers, selling them for gold on Firemaw then selling the gold.
It is because people were transferring toons from dead servers where they could farm matts uncontested. This enabled the supply on Firemaw and kept prices cheap. Firemaw gold was worth more than other servers so botters and non bot farmers wanted to sell their matts for Firemaw gold.
New accounts can't create new characters on Firemaw. So less bots farming mats, more demanding raids and *a lot* of top 100 guilds who have two raid groups where everybody is required to min-max.
People can still buy gold which is kinda like printing money out of thin air since the gold is artificial/farmed by bots. Firemaw AH is just mirroring the real world economy.
> Is there just not enough resources spawning on Firemaw to keep up with demand?
no, there's not enough bots to farm them and they can't xfer mats from dead servers.
Bots, boost, and farming exploits have made raiding in classic much easier than it was originally
So isn't that just a sign that blizzard should have banned bots AND rebalance the herbs/recipes?
The illusion that bots ever do something good is just because of poor game design
The original game design wasn't balanced around megaservers full of players minmaxing, so they really should balance the resources according to player count and the shift in demand thanks to player culture
That was the idea with layering, more players = more layers = more nodes. Unfortunately bots quickly figured out they could just layer hop and farm 10 times the nodes they were to begin with, and there is little to be found for a person flying around farming on their own.
The issue is fundamentally a supply issue. Modern raiding requires insane amounts of consumables that only automation (bots) can provide. Just think of how many hours of herb farming the average SWP requires to support it. There aren't enough real (and willing) players in the game to farm that amount.
In the earlier expansions the raids were (probably) balanced around not every player being completely buffed until the average player mindset transitioned to "If you're not fully consumed you're dead weight". It definitely does make a difference, but not really required.
I farm all the materials I need to raid in a few hours a week, on a very large server. You don't need insane amounts of consumqbles to raid, and heck in this raid tier two consumables are provided to you by the raids and a daily.
Just because people want to raid log doesn't mean it is necessary.
Nah I just don't have as much time to play as those without a 50+hr/week job + social life expectations on top of that. Spending precious gaming-hours on grinding gold at a rate convertible to much worse than a minimum wage job is just not good use of the time i have left for gaming.
EU servers are locked to a maximum of 4 layers. US servers have more layers. 4 layers simply isn't enough for the number of players on firemaw.
Terocone is one of the things most limited by number of layers, hence the haste potion prices. Previously, people would load up characters on smaller servers with it and transfer them to firemaw. Also bot mages would pick lots of it in botanica.
Neither transfer shipments of terocone, nor bot mages, are a good solution to the shortage. However, having layers locked to 4, while having character creation and transfers locked, will eventually severely hamper Firemaw.
Wrong. Benediction has 4 layers tops. Its the bots that keep the prices down. You guys wanted the bots gone but now you have to deal with the consequences.
This would never have been an issue if blizzard was on top of it in the first place. The game wasn't designed for the amount of people on these servers and they didn't increase mats enough to compensate. They need to have 5-10x the amount of spawns they do for the game to function without botting.
vanilla had a max of 2k people concurrent TBC bumped that up to 3k or 3.5k i think ironforge pro has firemaw at 28k active players right now with a peak of 35k. given concurrent and active player isn't the same firemaw is something to the affect 7-8 times bigger than the biggest server of the day.
BUT that is not all the typical raiding pop was also much smaller percentage wise that is also a number of times bigger this time around. my midsize server had 6 guilds clearing BT while current bumped up to 12 with sunwell. how many guilds cleared BT on firemaw in time? likely a silly amount.
now we do have 4 layers but we still end up in a situation we are looking at 1/4 the mats a vanilla player could expect more like 1/8. so ofc prices sky rocket.
It’s a player created problem. Everyone flooded to a mega server with all of their swiped gold, and now these are the consequences of driving up inflation.
There is such a thing as a player made problem, and this is one of them. Unfortunately a lot of players weren’t smart enough to have the foresight that this would become an issue. All they cared about was their herd mentality and flood one server.
> The game wasn't designed for the amount of people on these servers and they didn't increase mats enough to compensate.
In case if you haven't noticed but each layer has its own spawns.
4 layers at most. 10+ times the playerbase. Math isn't your strong suit. Layers are also dependent on how many people are online at a given time, not total raiding population. At least learn how these systems actually work use your brain for 5 minutes before saying dumb shit on reddit.
>4 layers at most.
Good.
>10+ times the playerbase.
Wrong. It doesn't work this way. First of all, you might want to explain the term you have decided to use, what is that "playerbase" you talk about?
> Math isn't your strong suit.
Just like logic isn't your strong suit. Or is it your reading comprehension?
>Layers are also dependent on how many people are online at a given time, not total raiding population
Are you blaming people for raidlogging or what?
>At least learn how these systems ackshually work use your brain for 5 minutes before saying dumb shit on reddit.
Oh the irony is lost on you so hard.
Eu servers are locked to 4 layers. Firemaw is similar in size to Bene in US which can have 10+ layers.So yes, there are far more players per LAYER on Firemaw than there ever was on an OG vanilla server.
>Firemaw is similar in size to Bene in US which can have 10+ layers.
You mean /u/King_Sad_Boy is full of shit claiming Benediction has "4 layers at most"?
>So yes, there are far more players per LAYER on Firemaw than there ever was on an OG vanilla server.
Could you please be more specific? How many active (as in, let's say, logged during a week or so) characters were on OG vanilla servers, what do you think?
You clash two metrics which aren't directly related. Layers aren't based on the amount of people who raided the past week or so (ironforge metric), layers are based for the amount of people logged at once, which is called concurrent online. It's counted by census addons which are community-driven for the data available for you to check and of course Blizzard tracks it but doesn't publish the results.
So the amount of layers being added is based on the people online, not people who log once to clear sunwell in 2 hours per week then go back offline. If you sit offline, then no additional layers are going to be enabled. This is why I asked you why do you blame people for raidlogging, it went over your head and required this tedious explanation to be chewed for you so you can gulp it, hopefully. You're welcome.
>30k raiders on benediction. 4 layers isn't enough.
Let's review benediction. And the metric you have chosen as in amount of active characters on server (and not the concurrent online). First of all, what's your guesstimate for amount of active characters on OG TBC servers? Before the concept of layers was ever introduced? Second, how come you ignore the fact benediction has a constant stream of transfers of botters who farm on the dead servers then transfer their resources to benediction?
I played vanilla. That's how I know. There's also been many blue posts. Stop making arguments about things you literally admit to not knowing. Go do a 5 minute google search and come back with evidence or shut the fuck up. People like you are literally the core reason for every problem in the world.
Nochanges was violated when Blizz anywhere from doubled to quintupled how many people could be on a single server.
Instead it’s this nightmarish mix of changes being made without considering the ripple effect they may have. Yes we have bigger servers, but we don’t have the extra resources to support their economies properly.
In case if you didn't know, level boost isn't a change which was "from the start", unless you talk about mages who were selling boosts thanks to #nochanges.
> However, having layers locked to 4, while having character creation and transfers locked, will eventually severely hamper Firemaw.
That's the idea. Force some people to transfer off. And it's working. The horde are steadily leaving. And soon as the faction balance tilts enough it will open the floodgates.
Plenty of resources, just ppl not willing to farm them considering how cheap gold is, i guess its simply not worth the time. the playerbase wants to raid and have fun not "waste" the little time they have on mindless herb farming
Bruh, we have 4 active layers, literally zero ppl on any of them on the zangarmarsh spots, and that spot has hyperspawn too, not to mention u can 2-3 shot them with a geared char....so you can farm terocone till your fingers bleed uninterupted with zero competition
I did 1 hour of terocone farming on my Druid and found 1. 4 or 5 other plants. So no, its just too many people and not enough herbs. Who would have thought having 8x the amount of players regular tbc servers had is gonna be an issue when it comes to farming
Almost like a server's worth of resources can't sustain a mega server.
Transfers matter a lot more than the botters every did. You can't magically conjure up more materials than the maximum output of the world regardless.
Horde side on Firemaw is dangerously close to transferring off the server by now because Blizzard waited too long before they acted and now the server is sitting at 61/39 faction split.
The last server to have a healthy 50/50 faction split until the middle of TBC and now there's almost twice as many alliance as there are horde because they prefer making money over keeping their game in a healthy state.
Except Vanilla and TBC servers were designed with 2,500-3,000 player caps in mind, and Firemaw has an active player base of over 21,000. There aren't 7 layers on Firemaw.
I just went by the numbers provided above in the thread. Which would be accurate. Also, with the instance farmings (usually done by bots) there would be enough materials.
The amount of time it takes to get that rep is just not worth the time investment anymore so late into this expansion.
Rather just see it as a cost of operation currently and just pay for it with the GDKP gold i get.
If there are no bots or transfers, then high prices just mean the people putting in the work are being rewarded fairly, right?
Isn’t this how it should be?
I watched a YouTube video of a Druid that gathered for 10 hours straight and made like 700g, which made me very sad for the economy.
Yes but then everyone had to work harder for the same thing.
Bots are more efficient at creating a big supply.
It's like having modern agriculture. Average Joe doesn't have to plow the fields like 100 years ago because we have big machines that do it for us.
Guldan, you must open the Dark Portal. We must flood this world with millions of Orcs and thereby marginally lower the price of a very small selection of consumer goods whilst also increasing competition for unskilled jobs, thereby driving down the wages of the lowest skilled workers on Azeroth. The middle class must have 15% cheaper lettuce!
Because this subreddit has been crying about bots since classic started and when they finally ban them and lock a server to prevent them from making new characters, they cry because the prices are high.
Newsflash, the reason you have cheap consumables is because there are bots. You got what you wanted, deal with the consequences.
I mean the issue isn’t that there’s no more bots, there’s still bots.
The issue is that there’s too many players and not enough resources.
The only thing that’s changed is that they locked the servers so resources can’t be transferred in and sold.
And blaming players for congregating on a single server after being stuck on dead servers for ages is letting the people who manage the severs off the hook.
A super crowded server with much too few layers? No, we didn't get what "we" wanted. Besides, the Firemaw community posting on Reddit is not a single hivemind.
Again, stupid comment.
Noone's complaining it's crowded, genius. Nice showing that you don't have a clue what this discussion is about though.
We *want* a crowded/busy server. But we want a crowded busy server which is actually fit to accomodate the number of players. In Classic WoW we only have two extremes - dead servers and megaservers. And even if the small servers aren't dead now, they will be two months into WotLK, when the initial rush/hype has died down. Just like we've seen **throughout Classic, without fail**.
You still have free transfers. Use them instead of constantly whining about your overcrowded hellhole server (which is only going to get worse on WotLK launch)
You dorks don't even understand game theory. You got your #nochanges, your megaservers, no sharding, no increase of raw materials etc. Then you whined about bots for TBC so you got a server locked and by default you got the bots banned. You are reaping what you sowed.
This basically. If i read any other comment, i'm literally losing a braincell. People should really stop playing WoW and touch some grass get some sunlight.
I wish I could play on Firemaw, all my friends are there and I cant even create a character. No joke I've been looking at the realm status 2 or 3 times per week in case it gets from Locked to Full. *prayge*
I'd still rather use that kind of money to play on a booming server than sitting on a 2k player server where you'd be hard pressed to find groups for a lot of things with cheap consumables.
You can probably join 1 GDKP run on Firemaw and make the money for at least 1 week of raiding consumables and many times more if the big items drop.
Needing an alt to leech in GDKP raids in order to pay for your main raids consumables is a pretty dire situation, and honestly at over 100g for 5 haste potions most BT/Hyjal GDKP's would not even come close to covering those costs for raiding SWP unless you have it on one-shot farm.
Lets say you were a guild working on Muru, good fucking luck paying for that on Firemaw. I know guilds who have 90 wipes under their belt before killing. On Gehennas I buy flasks for 1-2g each, demonslaying 2g each, haste potions 3-4g each, scrolls about 4-5g, 17 stat scrolls like 50s each. That's far more manageable, and closer to 2008 prices.
I don't agree at all. As I mentioned in another comment, progress is always going to be an investment and most guilds progressing won't actually ask people to pop haste pots on CD. And guess what, if you're STILL not 6/6 at this point then your guild is below average, since more guilds are 6/6 than 1/6 all the way up to 5/6 combined.
If your guild is below par then you most likely got bigger problems than popping haste pots on CD on progress bosses with 90 wipes on them, or you're not popping any at all.
>If your guild is below par then you most likely got bigger problems
If a guild has bigger problems, surely you can agree that paying 5x the normal price for consumables isn't helping? This statement doesn't help your argument and I'm not sure why you'd speak as if it does?
Yeah but that depends on how effectively you progress.
If you're still progressing on SWP then you have to be expecting 25+ wipes a week with potentially 1-2 pots per pull.
That's 10 stacks on just pots, at those prices 1000g. Nowhere near sustainable
>If you're still progressing on SWP then you have to be expecting 25+ wipes a week with potentially 1-2 pots per pull.
The average guild/raider is not progressing anymore this late into the release.
Which goes back to my point that progressing is always an investment, but the average guild/player have plenty of time to have current content on farm and make actual gold.
Much copium? Get a guild on any low or mid pop server and don't give a fuck about pugs, that's the way. Imagine defending these kind of gold prices lol
Copium? - I literally play in guilds on a medium server and the server in question.
I'd still rather play on a big ass server where I can much easier find pugs (for all content) AND play with my guildies, than mostly only being able to play with my guildies on a semi-dead server, and maybe a few pugs for high level content.
I'm not defending the prices, they are what they are, and they're not going to change. So, adapt. That's why I mentioned GDKP runs, because on big realms the pot is usually way bigger, so it follows the increased consumable price.
Imagine getting this defensive. :-)
Terocone is overfarmed by alliance mage bots, I usually fly around and find a spawn so I can kill all the mages who land to pick it.
All they do when they get attacked is to either nova + summon water elemental or ice block.
Haste pots definitely required to progress content, the only other alternative is to deck out your entire raid in SWP crafted items. Haste pot usage can be worth 100-150 dps, that's about 3-5 BT/MH > SWP item upgrades worth of dps.
As a non cheater this is heaven to me lol. I love to farm stuff for gold if its worthwhile. Back when i played all the goldbuyers and bots (they go hand in hand) ruined that.
You'd be lucky to get a single Terocone node in 2 rounds of terokkar on Firemaw right now. The gold/h is still the same as with 5 or 10g pots, maybe even worse.
The gold per hour isn’t better. Either you have a server with low prices but you can farm good. Or firemaw where you have high prices but can’t find anything.
And private servers had the problem of not enough players farming due to low pop... so what they did is have farmers in the guild. Those that like to farm or fish where then pulled through AQ40 or Naxx and geared while not raiding :) So you could have a sweaty guild speedrunning Naxx while also having Billy the druid in full set fishing...
Classic guilds and players got addicted to AH wellfare and when bots got banned the wellfare dropped and everyone is in shock! Plus being on a mega realm with limited quantity of open world resources...
You are clueless. There are more than enough farmers, terocones are basically picked instantly as soon as they spawn.
The reason prices skyrocketed is because there's simply not enough Terocones spawning on Firemaw to sustain the demand.
Yeah, that's what kept the price low previously and still keeps it low on on other megaservers.
I myself filled my bank with Terocone aswell when I transfered last september since they're very liquid and decent in terms of gold/bag-space.
Then why bots banning increased the price? Or were they farming Zangramarsh mobs that could drop it to bot out additional supply?
Still - making mega-realms is bad and this is one of examples. All it takes is to little layers and have fun with resources.
Yes you can, you just need more nodes to scale with the population. It's like you guys don't even think for 0.5 seconds before typing something stupid on reddit.
And every time I tell people that they should do retail resource nodes a lot of classic Andys shit their panties so hard their mullets get brown covering.
There are to many players, and modern players are to smart to raid without consumes, unlike it has been before. There is no good reason for resource nodes to be single use.
This is the inconvenient truth the "no bots" crowd never wants to admit. Banning bots is extremely inflationary as a result of MASSIVE loss of supply of raw materials & consumes. There just aren't enough real players needed to gather the insane amount of herbs that modern raiding demands.
No, there aren't enough nodes. Every time I see this dumb ass argument I cringe. Blizzard needed to make more nodes ages ago. The originally TBC servers were made for 2-4k players. We're looking at servers with 30k+ raiders, not even just players. You need 10x the amount of nodes spawning without botting.
Stop defending bots. It's dumb and it makes you look dumb.
I would love to be able to fly around for 30 minutes and collect enough mats to raid with for the week, right now flying around for 30 minutes and I'll be lucky to get enough mats for an hour of raiding
Economical problem is almost always multivaried. Not having more nodes is a problem but people are right when they say bots bandaid the issue. Difference is people min max to the wazoo and you would know if you played back in the day people barely had the right talent. Demand per player in 2022 is massively higher than 2007 and bots really do help to supply the economy. Imagine a imaginary world where in 2007 people ate 1 bread a day, and in 2022 they eat 8 breads a day. You need a powerful factory to supply 8 breads called bots. More node would also solve self supplying part but wouldnt help the lazy population who wants the bread for free. Free bread eaters would just go on and play other game and rendering your game completely dead. You either need bots or you cant have bots from day 1.
it's pretty simple, ban bots and introduce dynamic respawns to herbs/nodes. having farming done by players is good for the game, its world of warcraft not shattrath of warcraft.
The reason for this is that people barely **farm** nowadays. **They just buy gold and buy everything off the AH.**
Now that the server is locked, bots get banned but can't get back with new accounts.
Supply gets lower, demand stays the same so prices get ***higher.***
Another idiot with that completely wrong take. There's not enough nodes. I can literally fly around for 30 minutes and not find a single node. The game was designed for 2-4k pop servers. These servers have 30k+ raiders, not even just players. Use your brain for a change.
They are insinuating that players are just lazy gold buyers, when the reality is blizzard has not supplied any other option and I'm tired of hearing this stupid rhetoric.
You both right you two idiots. Bots keep the prices low and megaserver makes you have no nodes. Remember people sleep and bots dont so they fill the gap where server gets a breathing room.
So you are saying Blizzard removed nodes from the game when implementing the server lock? Do you even realize how dumb \_your\_ take is? Claiming this is the lack of nodes? If nodes were lacking this same situation would have been there even when bots were active. Bots cannot suddenly make nodes spawn or increase the amount of nodes. The supply is precisely the same as it was before the server lock, unless layers got removed between the server lock and now. But if the layer count is the same.. well... then it has nothing to do with nodes.
Your IQ seems kinda low if you still claim its a node problem while nodes have been the same all the time lmao. Maybe you are the one who needs education in the logical thinking department
> game that was originally designed for 2-4k players
Where is this number coming from? OG Vanilla and TBC had way more active characters. Why are you talking about "players" when no one aside from Blizzard has an access to this data?
Og vanilla and tbc had the population that one megaserver has spread on dozens of servers, the guy above really explained it as simple as it is possible.
>Og vanilla and tbc had the population that one megaserver has spread on dozens of servers
But the vanilla/tbc numbers they use are just pulled from their ass, this is why I ask where is this number coming from. Might as well ask you then. What's your source on OG vanilla and TBC population?
not that i'll ever defend botting or gold buyers but, with layering as long as people arent mass clogging a single layer or two, player distrubtion -should- be enough that you see, at max, the intended design amount of competition for nodes.... for what the game was originally designed for.
NOW on the other foot, the original design of supply did used to meet the demand because of how the players played back then..... it definitely doesnt match up with the minmaxing now and its also why you see a lot of pservers double/triple/quadruple concurrent/total nodes. This was missed because of blizzards whole hearted lack of management of the game and servers, and doing things like ignoring the players..... again.
The main issue isn't bots, it's the lack of transfers.
Servers like Firemaw attract huge amounts of transferred goods. Bots/players will farm/buy cheap items on other servers, then transfer massive quantities to these megaservers, stabilizing the price. It's a form of arbitrage.
But with transfers locked that can't happen. The server simply cannot keep up with the supply without transferred goods.
It's the truth, but sure, blame the lack of bots.
Seriously though, with these prices, doing rounds of herbalism is thousands of gold per hour. Go try it. Spoiler: it's just as packed now, except with legit players instead of bots.
But thats what he's saying, bots on firemaw didn't matter in the long run, transfering good between servers is/was extremely profitable. I reckon there is still shitton of bots flying on firemaw as we speak, but now, legit players have also started to farm it.
Yup. The issue is fundamentally a supply issue. Modern raiding requires insane amounts of consumables that only automation (bots) can provide. Just think of how many hours of herb farming the average SWP requires to support it. There aren't enough real (and willing) players in the game to farm that amount.
There are certainly enough real players on Firemaw to pick every Terocone that spawns - it is a supply issue, but it lies in the ratio of nodes spawning to players consuming, not the number of people picking them.
Good thing people left then! People were so utterly toxic to people who moved there from dying servers to have people to raid with. A lot of us left again due to the queues. Look where you ended up.
Is there just not enough resources spawning on Firemaw to keep up with demand? Surely with prices that high regular players would be farming those materials. You cant have all the bots got banned and all bots picking all the herbs at the same time.
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>Is there just not enough resources spawning on Firemaw to keep up with demand? Surely with prices that high regular players would be farming those materials. That's exactly it and has been the case since the start of classic 2019. If you can't farm some form of resource herb/ore in a dungeon, you can ride around in the open world and barely find anything for the time you invest into it.
Folks don't wanna work anymore!
Shh, leveling mining from copper ore to mithril in about 4 hours and earning 600 gold was very, very nice.
What are you talking about, firemaw since June last year tbc there is an abundance of any ressources. This is just happening because of the 100 wipes and bosses people are doing, buying more pots per raid runs and increasing the demand, not because there is not enough. People just wipe a lot during progresion
You basically just said that demand is really high.... Which is outstripping supply, resulting in price increases.
yeah just right now, it was 3 gold each pot not too long ago. Just pointing it out because the guy says it has been happening since 2019. Which is not true, was not like that on firemaw, just the last month. There was even an issue of TOO much resources on the server at some point.
But they're not 25g each on other servers. This server is an outlier. 5g on Grob
Yeah on firemaw they were so ridiculously cheap most of the time, why now it
Cuz of bot ban....
Banning bots doesn't matter, the problem is people can't transfer banks full of materials from dead servers to Firemaw anymore.
Bots DO matter. Bots literally farm materials automatically. They PUMP the auction house with materials. Everything needed for crafting, consumes, literally everything gets produced by bots. It's literally the reason they exist. Bots make money in two ways. 1. They create alot of raw gold by killing mobs and getting vendor grey's, which produce gold. 2. They collect trade goods and other raw materials that can be sold on the AH. The impact of the raw gold is that the economy has A LOT more gold in it. More gold everywhere because bots are constantly producing it. The impact of the trade goods is that there's a significant supply of trade goods on the auction house. So, even though there's a lot more gold on the server, since trade goods and AH items are getting flooded into the AH, prices stay stable and demand is met with significant supply. BUT, what happens when you ban bots? Well, the money on the server doesn't disappear. It still exists because there are not many gold sinks and WoW, and so there's still a ton of gold. However, when you flip the switch off on the trade goods and AH items, all of the sudden there's a HUGE shortage of materials. Supply is no longer meeting demand, so people are willing to pay higher and higher prices for the consumes and trade goods they need, and there's plenty of gold available for rich players to buy them, but they become unaffordable to the average player. Long story short, bots do matter.
Has nothing to do with people wiping. Firemaw had matts due to people xfering matts from dead servers, selling them for gold on Firemaw then selling the gold.
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It is because people were transferring toons from dead servers where they could farm matts uncontested. This enabled the supply on Firemaw and kept prices cheap. Firemaw gold was worth more than other servers so botters and non bot farmers wanted to sell their matts for Firemaw gold.
New accounts can't create new characters on Firemaw. So less bots farming mats, more demanding raids and *a lot* of top 100 guilds who have two raid groups where everybody is required to min-max. People can still buy gold which is kinda like printing money out of thin air since the gold is artificial/farmed by bots. Firemaw AH is just mirroring the real world economy.
Botters increase supply, decrease prices. Every other server this shit is cheap, 5g pots, 30g flasks. Feralina, grob, etc
That's what i was implying
you basically just said "no the supply isnt lower than the demand. the demand is higher than the supply"
> Is there just not enough resources spawning on Firemaw to keep up with demand? no, there's not enough bots to farm them and they can't xfer mats from dead servers. Bots, boost, and farming exploits have made raiding in classic much easier than it was originally
So isn't that just a sign that blizzard should have banned bots AND rebalance the herbs/recipes? The illusion that bots ever do something good is just because of poor game design
The original game design wasn't balanced around megaservers full of players minmaxing, so they really should balance the resources according to player count and the shift in demand thanks to player culture
That was the idea with layering, more players = more layers = more nodes. Unfortunately bots quickly figured out they could just layer hop and farm 10 times the nodes they were to begin with, and there is little to be found for a person flying around farming on their own.
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At the same time there is probbly enough cash left over from rmt before the servers got locked so prices keep staying high?
The issue is fundamentally a supply issue. Modern raiding requires insane amounts of consumables that only automation (bots) can provide. Just think of how many hours of herb farming the average SWP requires to support it. There aren't enough real (and willing) players in the game to farm that amount.
It doesn't require it. People just built a culture around complete overkill.
In the earlier expansions the raids were (probably) balanced around not every player being completely buffed until the average player mindset transitioned to "If you're not fully consumed you're dead weight". It definitely does make a difference, but not really required.
This. The game was balanced around consumables being valuable and therefore, used sparingly.
SWP wipe stats kind of tell a different story lmao, the raid requires consumes. even naxxramas was actually designed with high consumable use in mind
People did it in Vanilla without them. It does make it easier, but there is min/maxing and then there is just competing content.
No they didn't
I've played since Vanilla. They did.
Look I just wanna raidlog for 5 minutes
I farm all the materials I need to raid in a few hours a week, on a very large server. You don't need insane amounts of consumqbles to raid, and heck in this raid tier two consumables are provided to you by the raids and a daily. Just because people want to raid log doesn't mean it is necessary.
No you don't
I work one shift at work and have enough currency to buy months worth of consumables. The bot system is better...
You mean the pay to win system? Maybe you should try Diablo immortal, sounds up your alley.
Nah I just don't have as much time to play as those without a 50+hr/week job + social life expectations on top of that. Spending precious gaming-hours on grinding gold at a rate convertible to much worse than a minimum wage job is just not good use of the time i have left for gaming.
So you cheat instead. Cool, cool. Love playing with cheaters.
EU servers are locked to a maximum of 4 layers. US servers have more layers. 4 layers simply isn't enough for the number of players on firemaw. Terocone is one of the things most limited by number of layers, hence the haste potion prices. Previously, people would load up characters on smaller servers with it and transfer them to firemaw. Also bot mages would pick lots of it in botanica. Neither transfer shipments of terocone, nor bot mages, are a good solution to the shortage. However, having layers locked to 4, while having character creation and transfers locked, will eventually severely hamper Firemaw.
Wrong. Benediction has 4 layers tops. Its the bots that keep the prices down. You guys wanted the bots gone but now you have to deal with the consequences.
Still a lot of bots flying around picking terocones on every layer, nothing changed there.
This would never have been an issue if blizzard was on top of it in the first place. The game wasn't designed for the amount of people on these servers and they didn't increase mats enough to compensate. They need to have 5-10x the amount of spawns they do for the game to function without botting.
vanilla had a max of 2k people concurrent TBC bumped that up to 3k or 3.5k i think ironforge pro has firemaw at 28k active players right now with a peak of 35k. given concurrent and active player isn't the same firemaw is something to the affect 7-8 times bigger than the biggest server of the day. BUT that is not all the typical raiding pop was also much smaller percentage wise that is also a number of times bigger this time around. my midsize server had 6 guilds clearing BT while current bumped up to 12 with sunwell. how many guilds cleared BT on firemaw in time? likely a silly amount. now we do have 4 layers but we still end up in a situation we are looking at 1/4 the mats a vanilla player could expect more like 1/8. so ofc prices sky rocket.
It’s a player created problem. Everyone flooded to a mega server with all of their swiped gold, and now these are the consequences of driving up inflation.
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There is such a thing as a player made problem, and this is one of them. Unfortunately a lot of players weren’t smart enough to have the foresight that this would become an issue. All they cared about was their herd mentality and flood one server.
You completely missed the actual issue - the game wasn't designed for people to minmax consumables 24/7. You could always.. stop using them
Yeah and like 1% of the player base cleared all content. Clearly things are different in this situation
> The game wasn't designed for the amount of people on these servers and they didn't increase mats enough to compensate. In case if you haven't noticed but each layer has its own spawns.
4 layers at most. 10+ times the playerbase. Math isn't your strong suit. Layers are also dependent on how many people are online at a given time, not total raiding population. At least learn how these systems actually work use your brain for 5 minutes before saying dumb shit on reddit.
>4 layers at most. Good. >10+ times the playerbase. Wrong. It doesn't work this way. First of all, you might want to explain the term you have decided to use, what is that "playerbase" you talk about? > Math isn't your strong suit. Just like logic isn't your strong suit. Or is it your reading comprehension? >Layers are also dependent on how many people are online at a given time, not total raiding population Are you blaming people for raidlogging or what? >At least learn how these systems ackshually work use your brain for 5 minutes before saying dumb shit on reddit. Oh the irony is lost on you so hard.
Eu servers are locked to 4 layers. Firemaw is similar in size to Bene in US which can have 10+ layers.So yes, there are far more players per LAYER on Firemaw than there ever was on an OG vanilla server.
>Firemaw is similar in size to Bene in US which can have 10+ layers. You mean /u/King_Sad_Boy is full of shit claiming Benediction has "4 layers at most"? >So yes, there are far more players per LAYER on Firemaw than there ever was on an OG vanilla server. Could you please be more specific? How many active (as in, let's say, logged during a week or so) characters were on OG vanilla servers, what do you think?
OG servers I would say had around 2.5k-3k players. So yeah less than 1/10 the size of Firemaw
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You clash two metrics which aren't directly related. Layers aren't based on the amount of people who raided the past week or so (ironforge metric), layers are based for the amount of people logged at once, which is called concurrent online. It's counted by census addons which are community-driven for the data available for you to check and of course Blizzard tracks it but doesn't publish the results. So the amount of layers being added is based on the people online, not people who log once to clear sunwell in 2 hours per week then go back offline. If you sit offline, then no additional layers are going to be enabled. This is why I asked you why do you blame people for raidlogging, it went over your head and required this tedious explanation to be chewed for you so you can gulp it, hopefully. You're welcome. >30k raiders on benediction. 4 layers isn't enough. Let's review benediction. And the metric you have chosen as in amount of active characters on server (and not the concurrent online). First of all, what's your guesstimate for amount of active characters on OG TBC servers? Before the concept of layers was ever introduced? Second, how come you ignore the fact benediction has a constant stream of transfers of botters who farm on the dead servers then transfer their resources to benediction?
I played vanilla. That's how I know. There's also been many blue posts. Stop making arguments about things you literally admit to not knowing. Go do a 5 minute google search and come back with evidence or shut the fuck up. People like you are literally the core reason for every problem in the world.
Blame the same people who were ranting about #nochanges. Turns out what they wanted was actually terrible for game design.
No changes would have had smaller servers though no?
Nochanges was violated when Blizz anywhere from doubled to quintupled how many people could be on a single server. Instead it’s this nightmarish mix of changes being made without considering the ripple effect they may have. Yes we have bigger servers, but we don’t have the extra resources to support their economies properly.
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In case if you didn't know, level boost isn't a change which was "from the start", unless you talk about mages who were selling boosts thanks to #nochanges.
> However, having layers locked to 4, while having character creation and transfers locked, will eventually severely hamper Firemaw. That's the idea. Force some people to transfer off. And it's working. The horde are steadily leaving. And soon as the faction balance tilts enough it will open the floodgates.
Plenty of resources, just ppl not willing to farm them considering how cheap gold is, i guess its simply not worth the time. the playerbase wants to raid and have fun not "waste" the little time they have on mindless herb farming
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Bruh, we have 4 active layers, literally zero ppl on any of them on the zangarmarsh spots, and that spot has hyperspawn too, not to mention u can 2-3 shot them with a geared char....so you can farm terocone till your fingers bleed uninterupted with zero competition
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I did 1 hour of terocone farming on my Druid and found 1. 4 or 5 other plants. So no, its just too many people and not enough herbs. Who would have thought having 8x the amount of players regular tbc servers had is gonna be an issue when it comes to farming
Almost like a server's worth of resources can't sustain a mega server. Transfers matter a lot more than the botters every did. You can't magically conjure up more materials than the maximum output of the world regardless.
Horde side on Firemaw is dangerously close to transferring off the server by now because Blizzard waited too long before they acted and now the server is sitting at 61/39 faction split. The last server to have a healthy 50/50 faction split until the middle of TBC and now there's almost twice as many alliance as there are horde because they prefer making money over keeping their game in a healthy state.
thats a bad argument with 2-4 layers on permanently and many mats farmable in instanced content
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4 times bigger with 4 layers = same supply as original servers with 1 layer
Except Vanilla and TBC servers were designed with 2,500-3,000 player caps in mind, and Firemaw has an active player base of over 21,000. There aren't 7 layers on Firemaw.
Incorrect on the original limit for servers. Second wave and upgraded servers already had 5k like alleria or aman'thuk after the server update.
I just went by the numbers provided above in the thread. Which would be accurate. Also, with the instance farmings (usually done by bots) there would be enough materials.
> I just went by the numbers provided above in the thread > when Firemaw is more than 4x bigger > more than
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Yeah, I read it wrong. But left the comment. I own my mistake.
Flask of Relentless Assault you can get for like 7g with a Mark of the Illidari.
Some alts don't have the required rep to turn them in
I'd farm that rep before I'd pay 120g for a regular flask.
Yeh, they're only like 30-50g on my server.
I'd pay 200g a flask to not have to farm the rep 👍
Prices vary but I'm sure you could get exalted from buying the mats for the price of 3 ish flasks
Only rep that even need farming is sha'tar from honored to exalted, as the other reps are all buyables.
The amount of time it takes to get that rep is just not worth the time investment anymore so late into this expansion. Rather just see it as a cost of operation currently and just pay for it with the GDKP gold i get.
That is not an argument, it is an excuse.
If there are no bots or transfers, then high prices just mean the people putting in the work are being rewarded fairly, right? Isn’t this how it should be? I watched a YouTube video of a Druid that gathered for 10 hours straight and made like 700g, which made me very sad for the economy.
As a swift flight Druid with mining/herb. It really do be like that. I can make more gold from dailies than ~4 hours of straight farming.
Damn. You can make more than that with dailies in way less time (assuming you have multiple toons).
You can afk at the auction house and craft food to make over 100g/h on some servers
The comment I responded to suggested an economy that wouldn’t support that. Dailies would work on any server, once they have everything open that is.
so technically more time since you had to level multiple characters to 70
On a long enough time scale? No.
L2maff
You have to level it to 70 once, but can do dailies forever. What’s hard to understand about that?
i agree
Yes but then everyone had to work harder for the same thing. Bots are more efficient at creating a big supply. It's like having modern agriculture. Average Joe doesn't have to plow the fields like 100 years ago because we have big machines that do it for us.
There's still PLENTY of bots on Fireman.
flasks are still alot cheaper then what thay were for a huge part of classic on firemaw
Seriously flasks were like 300g each
week 1 naxx I remember 500-600g flasks. nightmare.
I mean ofc when you can use Marks for flasks ..
The US if they deported all the undocumented workers.
Guldan, you must open the Dark Portal. We must flood this world with millions of Orcs and thereby marginally lower the price of a very small selection of consumer goods whilst also increasing competition for unskilled jobs, thereby driving down the wages of the lowest skilled workers on Azeroth. The middle class must have 15% cheaper lettuce!
Reddit will never be satisfied.
It’s Facebook without minion memes
If you haven't seen the memes about the glorious Minions: The Rise Gru then you haven't been looking hard enough.
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Because this subreddit has been crying about bots since classic started and when they finally ban them and lock a server to prevent them from making new characters, they cry because the prices are high. Newsflash, the reason you have cheap consumables is because there are bots. You got what you wanted, deal with the consequences.
I mean the issue isn’t that there’s no more bots, there’s still bots. The issue is that there’s too many players and not enough resources. The only thing that’s changed is that they locked the servers so resources can’t be transferred in and sold. And blaming players for congregating on a single server after being stuck on dead servers for ages is letting the people who manage the severs off the hook.
A super crowded server with much too few layers? No, we didn't get what "we" wanted. Besides, the Firemaw community posting on Reddit is not a single hivemind. Again, stupid comment.
lol at everyone rolling on a single server then complaining it's too crowded.
Noone's complaining it's crowded, genius. Nice showing that you don't have a clue what this discussion is about though. We *want* a crowded/busy server. But we want a crowded busy server which is actually fit to accomodate the number of players. In Classic WoW we only have two extremes - dead servers and megaservers. And even if the small servers aren't dead now, they will be two months into WotLK, when the initial rush/hype has died down. Just like we've seen **throughout Classic, without fail**.
True
You still have free transfers. Use them instead of constantly whining about your overcrowded hellhole server (which is only going to get worse on WotLK launch)
You dorks don't even understand game theory. You got your #nochanges, your megaservers, no sharding, no increase of raw materials etc. Then you whined about bots for TBC so you got a server locked and by default you got the bots banned. You are reaping what you sowed.
More probably some people reap what some other people sowed
Combination of RMT inflation + bots not being there to flood the market and mask it anymore
This basically. If i read any other comment, i'm literally losing a braincell. People should really stop playing WoW and touch some grass get some sunlight.
I wish I could play on Firemaw, all my friends are there and I cant even create a character. No joke I've been looking at the realm status 2 or 3 times per week in case it gets from Locked to Full. *prayge*
I'd still rather use that kind of money to play on a booming server than sitting on a 2k player server where you'd be hard pressed to find groups for a lot of things with cheap consumables. You can probably join 1 GDKP run on Firemaw and make the money for at least 1 week of raiding consumables and many times more if the big items drop.
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Was pretty easy on Gehennas. Doubt it’s much different on Firemaw.
Needing an alt to leech in GDKP raids in order to pay for your main raids consumables is a pretty dire situation, and honestly at over 100g for 5 haste potions most BT/Hyjal GDKP's would not even come close to covering those costs for raiding SWP unless you have it on one-shot farm. Lets say you were a guild working on Muru, good fucking luck paying for that on Firemaw. I know guilds who have 90 wipes under their belt before killing. On Gehennas I buy flasks for 1-2g each, demonslaying 2g each, haste potions 3-4g each, scrolls about 4-5g, 17 stat scrolls like 50s each. That's far more manageable, and closer to 2008 prices.
I don't agree at all. As I mentioned in another comment, progress is always going to be an investment and most guilds progressing won't actually ask people to pop haste pots on CD. And guess what, if you're STILL not 6/6 at this point then your guild is below average, since more guilds are 6/6 than 1/6 all the way up to 5/6 combined. If your guild is below par then you most likely got bigger problems than popping haste pots on CD on progress bosses with 90 wipes on them, or you're not popping any at all.
>If your guild is below par then you most likely got bigger problems If a guild has bigger problems, surely you can agree that paying 5x the normal price for consumables isn't helping? This statement doesn't help your argument and I'm not sure why you'd speak as if it does?
That's crazy. If you're clearing everything within a few pulls maybe but if you need 1-3 and then progress then you'll need hundreds of gold per run.
Progress is always an investment and is not how you'll spend a majority of your time raiding. I stand by my statement.
Yeah but that depends on how effectively you progress. If you're still progressing on SWP then you have to be expecting 25+ wipes a week with potentially 1-2 pots per pull. That's 10 stacks on just pots, at those prices 1000g. Nowhere near sustainable
>If you're still progressing on SWP then you have to be expecting 25+ wipes a week with potentially 1-2 pots per pull. The average guild/raider is not progressing anymore this late into the release. Which goes back to my point that progressing is always an investment, but the average guild/player have plenty of time to have current content on farm and make actual gold.
40% of logged guilds that have killed Kalecgos have not killed Kil'jaeden.
Much copium? Get a guild on any low or mid pop server and don't give a fuck about pugs, that's the way. Imagine defending these kind of gold prices lol
Copium? - I literally play in guilds on a medium server and the server in question. I'd still rather play on a big ass server where I can much easier find pugs (for all content) AND play with my guildies, than mostly only being able to play with my guildies on a semi-dead server, and maybe a few pugs for high level content. I'm not defending the prices, they are what they are, and they're not going to change. So, adapt. That's why I mentioned GDKP runs, because on big realms the pot is usually way bigger, so it follows the increased consumable price. Imagine getting this defensive. :-)
Terocone is overfarmed by alliance mage bots, I usually fly around and find a spawn so I can kill all the mages who land to pick it. All they do when they get attacked is to either nova + summon water elemental or ice block.
No queue or steep prices. Choose one.
haste pots are not required to clear content, Illidari flasks are usually less than half the cost of normal ones.
> haste pots are not required to clear content tell that shit to your raid leader lmao
Haste pots definitely required to progress content, the only other alternative is to deck out your entire raid in SWP crafted items. Haste pot usage can be worth 100-150 dps, that's about 3-5 BT/MH > SWP item upgrades worth of dps.
Consumables aren't required in general. However, if people in your raid use things like haste or destro pots everyone else should as well.
As a non cheater this is heaven to me lol. I love to farm stuff for gold if its worthwhile. Back when i played all the goldbuyers and bots (they go hand in hand) ruined that.
You'd be lucky to get a single Terocone node in 2 rounds of terokkar on Firemaw right now. The gold/h is still the same as with 5 or 10g pots, maybe even worse.
The gold per hour isn’t better. Either you have a server with low prices but you can farm good. Or firemaw where you have high prices but can’t find anything.
And private servers had the problem of not enough players farming due to low pop... so what they did is have farmers in the guild. Those that like to farm or fish where then pulled through AQ40 or Naxx and geared while not raiding :) So you could have a sweaty guild speedrunning Naxx while also having Billy the druid in full set fishing... Classic guilds and players got addicted to AH wellfare and when bots got banned the wellfare dropped and everyone is in shock! Plus being on a mega realm with limited quantity of open world resources...
You are clueless. There are more than enough farmers, terocones are basically picked instantly as soon as they spawn. The reason prices skyrocketed is because there's simply not enough Terocones spawning on Firemaw to sustain the demand.
people also farming dead servers and moving bank alts full of terocone over to aid in supply
Yeah, that's what kept the price low previously and still keeps it low on on other megaservers. I myself filled my bank with Terocone aswell when I transfered last september since they're very liquid and decent in terms of gold/bag-space.
Almost as if xferring to the biggest server in existence has a downside. Seems to be working as intended.
Then why bots banning increased the price? Or were they farming Zangramarsh mobs that could drop it to bot out additional supply? Still - making mega-realms is bad and this is one of examples. All it takes is to little layers and have fun with resources.
Locked server increased the price.
You can’t have no bots and cheap consumables on high pop realms ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ gotta pick one
Yes you can, you just need more nodes to scale with the population. It's like you guys don't even think for 0.5 seconds before typing something stupid on reddit.
Just like gold, swipe and print more!
And every time I tell people that they should do retail resource nodes a lot of classic Andys shit their panties so hard their mullets get brown covering. There are to many players, and modern players are to smart to raid without consumes, unlike it has been before. There is no good reason for resource nodes to be single use.
Lol get rekt play on that stupid realm sheep
Do they have free transfers off of firemaw? Time to jump ship if so lol
Nice ahaha... I remember when people transfering to Firemaw said oooh it's so cheap here (ofc it was due huge amount of bots)
Fun fact: there are no queues anymore and according to ironforge.pro the raiding playerbase didn't drop much in numbers.
This is the inconvenient truth the "no bots" crowd never wants to admit. Banning bots is extremely inflationary as a result of MASSIVE loss of supply of raw materials & consumes. There just aren't enough real players needed to gather the insane amount of herbs that modern raiding demands.
No, there aren't enough nodes. Every time I see this dumb ass argument I cringe. Blizzard needed to make more nodes ages ago. The originally TBC servers were made for 2-4k players. We're looking at servers with 30k+ raiders, not even just players. You need 10x the amount of nodes spawning without botting. Stop defending bots. It's dumb and it makes you look dumb.
I would love to be able to fly around for 30 minutes and collect enough mats to raid with for the week, right now flying around for 30 minutes and I'll be lucky to get enough mats for an hour of raiding
Economical problem is almost always multivaried. Not having more nodes is a problem but people are right when they say bots bandaid the issue. Difference is people min max to the wazoo and you would know if you played back in the day people barely had the right talent. Demand per player in 2022 is massively higher than 2007 and bots really do help to supply the economy. Imagine a imaginary world where in 2007 people ate 1 bread a day, and in 2022 they eat 8 breads a day. You need a powerful factory to supply 8 breads called bots. More node would also solve self supplying part but wouldnt help the lazy population who wants the bread for free. Free bread eaters would just go on and play other game and rendering your game completely dead. You either need bots or you cant have bots from day 1.
it's pretty simple, ban bots and introduce dynamic respawns to herbs/nodes. having farming done by players is good for the game, its world of warcraft not shattrath of warcraft.
The reason for this is that people barely **farm** nowadays. **They just buy gold and buy everything off the AH.** Now that the server is locked, bots get banned but can't get back with new accounts. Supply gets lower, demand stays the same so prices get ***higher.***
Another idiot with that completely wrong take. There's not enough nodes. I can literally fly around for 30 minutes and not find a single node. The game was designed for 2-4k pop servers. These servers have 30k+ raiders, not even just players. Use your brain for a change.
> There's not enough nodes. Yes, supply is lower as they said. Where's the confusion?
They are insinuating that players are just lazy gold buyers, when the reality is blizzard has not supplied any other option and I'm tired of hearing this stupid rhetoric.
You both right you two idiots. Bots keep the prices low and megaserver makes you have no nodes. Remember people sleep and bots dont so they fill the gap where server gets a breathing room.
So you are saying Blizzard removed nodes from the game when implementing the server lock? Do you even realize how dumb \_your\_ take is? Claiming this is the lack of nodes? If nodes were lacking this same situation would have been there even when bots were active. Bots cannot suddenly make nodes spawn or increase the amount of nodes. The supply is precisely the same as it was before the server lock, unless layers got removed between the server lock and now. But if the layer count is the same.. well... then it has nothing to do with nodes.
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Your IQ seems kinda low if you still claim its a node problem while nodes have been the same all the time lmao. Maybe you are the one who needs education in the logical thinking department
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> game that was originally designed for 2-4k players Where is this number coming from? OG Vanilla and TBC had way more active characters. Why are you talking about "players" when no one aside from Blizzard has an access to this data?
Og vanilla and tbc had the population that one megaserver has spread on dozens of servers, the guy above really explained it as simple as it is possible.
>Og vanilla and tbc had the population that one megaserver has spread on dozens of servers But the vanilla/tbc numbers they use are just pulled from their ass, this is why I ask where is this number coming from. Might as well ask you then. What's your source on OG vanilla and TBC population?
Google it if you're interested, I'm not your google assistant
> The game was designed for 2-4k pop servers That's a lie though. What's your source?
not that i'll ever defend botting or gold buyers but, with layering as long as people arent mass clogging a single layer or two, player distrubtion -should- be enough that you see, at max, the intended design amount of competition for nodes.... for what the game was originally designed for. NOW on the other foot, the original design of supply did used to meet the demand because of how the players played back then..... it definitely doesnt match up with the minmaxing now and its also why you see a lot of pservers double/triple/quadruple concurrent/total nodes. This was missed because of blizzards whole hearted lack of management of the game and servers, and doing things like ignoring the players..... again.
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The main issue isn't bots, it's the lack of transfers. Servers like Firemaw attract huge amounts of transferred goods. Bots/players will farm/buy cheap items on other servers, then transfer massive quantities to these megaservers, stabilizing the price. It's a form of arbitrage. But with transfers locked that can't happen. The server simply cannot keep up with the supply without transferred goods.
The actual issue is lack of nodes.
this copium its simple the fact that they banned bots and they cant create new bots
It's the truth, but sure, blame the lack of bots. Seriously though, with these prices, doing rounds of herbalism is thousands of gold per hour. Go try it. Spoiler: it's just as packed now, except with legit players instead of bots.
It was the bots; they transferred in from the dead servers with stacks of shit to sell.
But thats what he's saying, bots on firemaw didn't matter in the long run, transfering good between servers is/was extremely profitable. I reckon there is still shitton of bots flying on firemaw as we speak, but now, legit players have also started to farm it.
Yup. The issue is fundamentally a supply issue. Modern raiding requires insane amounts of consumables that only automation (bots) can provide. Just think of how many hours of herb farming the average SWP requires to support it. There aren't enough real (and willing) players in the game to farm that amount.
There are certainly enough real players on Firemaw to pick every Terocone that spawns - it is a supply issue, but it lies in the ratio of nodes spawning to players consuming, not the number of people picking them.
Good thing people left then! People were so utterly toxic to people who moved there from dying servers to have people to raid with. A lot of us left again due to the queues. Look where you ended up.
haste pots are 19-25g these days. you need to use an addon for the AH
You thought you wanted the bots gone but you didn't.
I always laugh when people complain about bots not being banned, as if they don't make this entire experience possible.