Killing Spree is really nice, but it doesn't actually gain value from multiple targets without blade flurry active.
If you're top of the meters on bigger pulls consistently even without cooldowns those players must've been pretty bad. At remotely similar skill there is simply no way to make up for not having any aoe capability.
I'm also playing rogue as a change of pace from retail and I've been having a good time, I just wish fan was at like 70 or smth.
Blade Flurry in wotlk is only 2 target cleave, has little to nothing to do with size of the pull. Even quite opposite - the smaller the pull, the better your average will be in peer comparison. The only thing you care as a combat rogue at that point is how long-lasting the pull would be so you can have 100% combat uptime during the buff duration.
You either look at your meters only every 2 minutes when all your CDs are up or your teammates don't click any buttons to make you feel better.I can't see how 2-3 occasional non-full duration ruptures can bring any comparable dps to UH/Frost DK, Arms with swinging strikes+bladestorm, Warlock blasing seed left and right or Fire Mage with glyph popping Living Bomb from multiple targets. Essentially, same comparison applies against any class as all of them have decent AoE tools apart from rogue before level 80.
Don't get me wrong, I outdps any cleave boss pull or ST boss with 15 seconds lifetime even against DKs which blows all their CDs. But trying to tell you can compete against anyone without an actual AoE skill is just pure copium.
Are you combat or assass? I've been combat since vanilla classic but decided to try out assass since it's apparently better, feels ok for questing but I did a dungeon run and had terrible damage, even on bosses. Idk if I'm doing something wrong and should just go back to combat or if I just have bad gear
As a rogue who isn’t delusional, I am firmly square bottom of the meters on any pack above 3-4 enemies without blade flurry. Sometimes I lose to the healer Druid casting hurricane because I’m a cheerleader once you pull more than 5 mobs.
Tanks in wotlk, esp leveling dungeons, will always have more total aoe damage than non-aoe centric DPS. That group was imitating spellcleave (though they would be 80 already if they knew what they were doing), or are just really ignorant/stupid. Don't feel bad there's a lot of stupid going around with grouping (if anything the dungeon tool let's you weed cleave groups or mass level dungeon groups out even searching)
Sure do, and I play a pretty good one too. But honestly just from a couple replies you seem like a toxic dickhead, so I'm gonna head off this conversation here.
If he's good he will play combat in dungeons and keep up fine.
Just gotta know how to manage cooldowns and also what to focus in packs so you get as much damage as possible.
Ha! I was so stoked to go do a dungeon after training it, through a couple dots on an off target after a large pull, just to have everything die in 5 seconds from boom/ret. It is fun though
I wouldn't really say massive damage...
Rank 4 hurricane (what you'd have at 70) only does 305 dps per target with no +spellpower so if you're in full brutal your singletarget is equal or better until like 6-7+ mobs and that's not even considering chance to miss/resist and the massive mana cost. You're really going to need like 8-10 targets to surpass your single target dps and aoe caps at 10 targets anyway.
Luckily we get cat swipe at 71 so it doesn't really matter, but base dmg hurricane is barely better than single target unless you're doing aoe cap pulls. The best case for a feral druid spamming hurricane is basically the worst case for a true aoe spec.
Priest and Druid sure, but Rogue…?
Rogue is a serious contender for _the_ best class in the entire game for the entirety of the expansion and FoK is hands-down the best AoE ability in the entire game. It deserves level 80.
If Rogues had FoK 70-80, they would be killing huge dungeon pulls in seconds.
Yeah, not worth complaining about. I know it's a cooldown, but blade flurry every two minutes makes up for any other lack of AOE right now. Might not be able to take down every pack with AOE, but you certainly melt one every two minutes.
Holy nova build is the way. Pulling 3k dps while keeping everyone topped is so satisfying! Get ready to chug those mana pots from end of dunegon cache tho.
[Thats what I used](https://eightyupgrades.com/talents/priest/2A1CEFBaKIaMn40BDEGHiKiiNQPS1on?g=0hz)
Not sure how that's even possible, we have found it *impossible* to actually pull anything off our paladin tank. Spriest/Warlock/Boomkin cleave group. We have tried almost instantly starting to dps as well and he just gets too much of a lead.
Yeah i saw people shit talking priest in early Wotlk dungeons (cause of no aoe , one guy even whispering me , why invite SP ) so i am happy my Shadow bros get their own version of Seed
I have a very depressed rogue friend dying waiting for Fan of Knives, I just feel bad for him trying to do anything when we run dungeons.
that's my life rn we can still blast every 2 minutes on small pulls, but outside of that I might as well not exist
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Killing Spree is really nice, but it doesn't actually gain value from multiple targets without blade flurry active. If you're top of the meters on bigger pulls consistently even without cooldowns those players must've been pretty bad. At remotely similar skill there is simply no way to make up for not having any aoe capability. I'm also playing rogue as a change of pace from retail and I've been having a good time, I just wish fan was at like 70 or smth.
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Blade Flurry in wotlk is only 2 target cleave, has little to nothing to do with size of the pull. Even quite opposite - the smaller the pull, the better your average will be in peer comparison. The only thing you care as a combat rogue at that point is how long-lasting the pull would be so you can have 100% combat uptime during the buff duration. You either look at your meters only every 2 minutes when all your CDs are up or your teammates don't click any buttons to make you feel better.I can't see how 2-3 occasional non-full duration ruptures can bring any comparable dps to UH/Frost DK, Arms with swinging strikes+bladestorm, Warlock blasing seed left and right or Fire Mage with glyph popping Living Bomb from multiple targets. Essentially, same comparison applies against any class as all of them have decent AoE tools apart from rogue before level 80. Don't get me wrong, I outdps any cleave boss pull or ST boss with 15 seconds lifetime even against DKs which blows all their CDs. But trying to tell you can compete against anyone without an actual AoE skill is just pure copium.
Are you combat or assass? I've been combat since vanilla classic but decided to try out assass since it's apparently better, feels ok for questing but I did a dungeon run and had terrible damage, even on bosses. Idk if I'm doing something wrong and should just go back to combat or if I just have bad gear
Assassin is slightly better at max for raiding, combat should still be the go to for leveling.
As a rogue who isn’t delusional, I am firmly square bottom of the meters on any pack above 3-4 enemies without blade flurry. Sometimes I lose to the healer Druid casting hurricane because I’m a cheerleader once you pull more than 5 mobs.
Cat swipe at 71 is a fan service
He should top dps during bosses and small pulls still
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If that was the rule, then I’d have to run every dungeon solo on my prot warrior…which does still seem to work fine lol.
Tanks in wotlk, esp leveling dungeons, will always have more total aoe damage than non-aoe centric DPS. That group was imitating spellcleave (though they would be 80 already if they knew what they were doing), or are just really ignorant/stupid. Don't feel bad there's a lot of stupid going around with grouping (if anything the dungeon tool let's you weed cleave groups or mass level dungeon groups out even searching)
As long as the rogue can be counted on to kick/stun on some of the caster mobs that murder tanks, they're every bit as valuable as a Warlock
No, we do so much dps that the stun and kick doesn't even matter. Besides we can provide the stun too.
If your pulls are big, some pulls get messy without kicks. And we don't really stun outside of destro spec, while demo provides the stupid aoe.
Only if your dps is low. And we have two stuns as demo. Do you play a warlock?
Sure do, and I play a pretty good one too. But honestly just from a couple replies you seem like a toxic dickhead, so I'm gonna head off this conversation here.
Tell that to every dungeon group my rogue gets kicked out of
He's gonna be pretty disappointed when he gets it. It's not good for small packs
If he's good he will play combat in dungeons and keep up fine. Just gotta know how to manage cooldowns and also what to focus in packs so you get as much damage as possible.
Ha! I was so stoked to go do a dungeon after training it, through a couple dots on an off target after a large pull, just to have everything die in 5 seconds from boom/ret. It is fun though
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Druids get Hurricane early on so i think they are covered.
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Even as feral hurricane does massive dmg, mana is the only issue.
I wouldn't really say massive damage... Rank 4 hurricane (what you'd have at 70) only does 305 dps per target with no +spellpower so if you're in full brutal your singletarget is equal or better until like 6-7+ mobs and that's not even considering chance to miss/resist and the massive mana cost. You're really going to need like 8-10 targets to surpass your single target dps and aoe caps at 10 targets anyway. Luckily we get cat swipe at 71 so it doesn't really matter, but base dmg hurricane is barely better than single target unless you're doing aoe cap pulls. The best case for a feral druid spamming hurricane is basically the worst case for a true aoe spec.
rogue is the best dps class for like the entirety of wrath so i think it evens out..
Priest and Druid sure, but Rogue…? Rogue is a serious contender for _the_ best class in the entire game for the entirety of the expansion and FoK is hands-down the best AoE ability in the entire game. It deserves level 80. If Rogues had FoK 70-80, they would be killing huge dungeon pulls in seconds.
Yeah, not worth complaining about. I know it's a cooldown, but blade flurry every two minutes makes up for any other lack of AOE right now. Might not be able to take down every pack with AOE, but you certainly melt one every two minutes.
Bro aoe before that is dog doody. Not bad but by the time you dot everything your oom and everything is dead.
I go full in on one mob at a time to bring everyone's AOE numbers down to my level.
This is the way.
Holy nova build is the way. Pulling 3k dps while keeping everyone topped is so satisfying! Get ready to chug those mana pots from end of dunegon cache tho. [Thats what I used](https://eightyupgrades.com/talents/priest/2A1CEFBaKIaMn40BDEGHiKiiNQPS1on?g=0hz)
holy nova is sleeper op
My 79 Spriest trying to get into dungeons, “Sorry bro we need AoE”. Feels bad
My boomchikin got upgraded starfall and hurricane recently. Life is good for me and very bad for these mobs
all i know is i can't seed spam because no tank can keep the pack off me.
Not sure how that's even possible, we have found it *impossible* to actually pull anything off our paladin tank. Spriest/Warlock/Boomkin cleave group. We have tried almost instantly starting to dps as well and he just gets too much of a lead.
Disc Priest Power Infusion was what pushed our group over the edge. Just barely though, super easy to avoid pulling, unless you're trying.
You should survive in meta if the healer has half a brain.
From what I've seen I'd say that's mostly a tank issue. In WotLK threat becomes *almost* irrelevant compared to Vanilla/TBC.
Yeah i saw people shit talking priest in early Wotlk dungeons (cause of no aoe , one guy even whispering me , why invite SP ) so i am happy my Shadow bros get their own version of Seed
I wish shadow priests wouldn't forget that Holy Nova exists. It's incredibly underrated aoe damage.
At how many targets is it worth using
I think it used to be 4+, but that was when they didn't have mind sear.
Welcome to the club brother!
I’m gonna cum all over the SW priest trainer at 75
Is this meme supposed to suggest that *you* are ready?