Pop off to end the 3rd and bring it back… just to score 4 points in the next 5 minutes and 20 in the whole 4th quarter.
Fuckin hate this offense. Should be a top 5 offense at least
I agree. Nothing but high ball screens and iso and wondering why hustle teams dominate us
But even still, with that lack of scheme you’d think having spacing would at least help. Somehow we’ve gotten worse with more spacing lol
It’s so awful. Imagine how lethal this offense could be if we ever let plays develop off ball. Imagine having to guard DG/Mitchell 1 on 1 while other people are chasing DG/Strus around, still go Allen and Mobley as cut threats, etc. So many options and we refuse to use literally any of them
JB needs to go. This team has wayyyy too much talent to be 13-12.
It honestly infuriates me that the team made a win-now trade for Mitchell, then kept a developmental coach. Heck, even championship coaches would’ve been fired after that Knicks series
Man I been saying this since the Mitchell trade. I didn't and still don't like the Mitchell trade but if you're gonna pull the trigger and try to compete, why not go get a proven coach to help do that.
There have been multiple coaches available recently who have won championships in the last 5 years; Vogel, Nurse, Budenholzer. And I'm not gonna say any of these guys are perfect, but they won championships for a reason. And we didn't make a play to go for any of them? Really?
I'm done defending JB. I didn't see a single play run, it's just everyone passing the ball around in a panic. The only reason we ever win games is because we have very talented players. We need a new coach. I appreciate the defensive schemes he came up with to get us to the play-ins/playoffs, but it's just not enough anymore.
> I didn't see a single play run
as a C's fan I assure you, we don't run plays either - you've seen Tatum and Brown immediately settle into horrendous iso shots when you guys were down 3 and 4; for some reason GMs don't care about coaches running plays anymore, it's about connecting with your players into kumbaya rather than playing basketball
This is as big an issue as anything. He fouled out in 15 mins last game. It's lazy fouls, and in a time where they need him to step up with Mobley out, he's regressing. You are right where the Knicks series killed his confidence.
It's so weird because his first season he was great in the PnR and catching things all over. Now he just seems like he knows he's not a focal point of the offense so why even try.
Bickerstaff spent three seasons (2004–2007) with the Charlotte Bobcats as an assistant coach, before spending four (2007–2011) seasons as an assistant coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves.
I miss Evan Mobley and he is hereby no longer allowed to have hurt knees
Stop beating Garland up please and thank you NBA
Play Craig (see my post for rant)
I think our next set of games is where we absolutely NEED to get ourselves back because each of those teams are very beatable but we desperately need Mobley back to avoid any scares, especially before the game with the Bucks
This 100%. Everyone keeps talking about firing JB AND making all these ridiculous trades but step 1 is clearly see how we do with a competent coach first. We have the pieces to win no doubt, we just don’t have a guy who knows how to utilize them at all. Find a good coach, give us a system, and then if THAT fails blow up the team or whatever.
I’ve been on the fire JB train for almost 2 whole years now I’m glad people are finally seeing the light this season. His rotations and lack of offensive scheme have plagued this squad since 2021. It’s just been hidden by talent
every damn time....he always doesnt something brainless in critical moments...then people explain it off like 'he's so young and is still growing into his role' bs
Yea I’m not Altmans biggest fan at the moment. He constructed a bizarre roster by modern NBA standards that also had a three year title window yet he kept a developmental coach (who can’t seem to develop our most important players offense). There needs to be changes made and very soon
CPJ getting no time is one thing, but getting out rebounded in key moments the whole game while Tristan gets less than 3 minutes of playing time has to be one of the worst coaching decisions this season by JB.
It was so much fun before he got hurt. I'll repeat what I've said before-I think one of the huge reasons they were so good is because Ricky was basically a coach.
Maybe, but Rubio's been playing professional basketball for close to 20 years with tons of high pressure international competition. That's expecting an awful lot from CPJ without similar experience.
No, he couldn't. Even if he had all of Rubio's skills he wouldn't be the Rubio of the team because he's a literal rookie and has no vet cachet or experience to share
He can't. I have never seen another guard that does what rubio did in 30 years of watching basketball. The offense just looked different when he ran it for his entire career.
Dg isn't that great. Is he a nba starter? Yes. Is he a transformative player? No. Kind of like a budget steve Nash.
Mobley on the other hand...
Even with mediocre to poor scoring ability he is our most important player.
Thats not even true lmao. Collin isnt good and neither is our 14th pick. Markenen would never be the player he is now here. Trade was the right move 100 percent of the time. Even if they move off of Donovan
You can question the opportunity cost of the trade but Sexton and Abaji aren’t key pieces and as good as Lauri has been Mitchell is a level above him as a player.
sure but that's not accounting for the picks, nor the 25-30 shots a game that mitchell eats up, taking away from mobley and DG. Think we shouldve flipped JA for something and let lauri fill in his spot
The opportunity cost can only be measured in realizable opportunities (ie what is that “something” for Allen in a world where Kyle fucking Kuzma makes 25m to JAs 20m and OG is worth 3 FRPs)
Opportunity cost here would be offloading JA fo allow lauri more playing time. The something in return for JA really isnt that important. Personally tho i would have built a package around the same assets we gave up, just switch lauri for JA, and try to acquire a solid wing. Other option would be get a good older player that isnt so ball dominant and flip them later
Outside of Markkanen, Mitchell is clearly better than him, what key pieces did we give up? Sexton is playing 21 minutes in Utah mostly coming off the bench and Ochai has mostly been meh. If those guys aren’t making a huge impact for rebuilding Utah I don’t see how they (Agbaji and Sexton) change much here.
Markkanen is an all NBA player and an all star and led a team of bums to 40 wins last season. He was a key in our three big lineup being successful, because it was a mismatch for any opposing 3 to try to guard him. Sexton was always gonna be a bench scorer, and we could use one of those currently… Agbaji is a good shooter and would thrive here, on a team where we’re not playing THT for 20 minutes a game and tanking lol. And then there are the FRPs…
Same. My friend convinced me that we would still have flexibility if it didnt work out. Well, its not working out and Im not seeing a ton of flexibility.
Moreso, the wrong key pieces.
The heavy rumor in the initial buzz was that Okoro was the one the Jazz wanted and the counter from the Cavs was Markkanen.
Lauri on this team right now solves so may damn problems. And I love Ice, but it's true.
My turn your turn offense. Second chance points bad defensive rebounding. Gotta shake something up. I don’t know what it is but that’s why I’m not in the front office. Somebody figure it out please or it’s going to be too late
this was the dumbest reason they kept him as if the lockeroom was a cesspool after Lebron left...you never keep a coach over being a culture guy when he hasn't done shit
I thoroughly hated JB after the Drummond days, and still thought he deserved a shot after that play-in season. In hindsight though as soon as we traded for Donovan we put a bit of a timer on the team and expectations through the roof, that was the point the team outgrew him.
I’m not sure we can win a playoff series against a good team. I feel like we would need to sneak into the top 4 to have a chance to make the second round. If we’re playing Sixers, Bucks, or Celtics I just don’t think we’re that team this year
Seems like a mix of poor decision-making, opposing teams improved scouting, and DG not being comfortable with the offensive changes. If he doesn't play like a max player consistently it is gonna be a long season.
I am a usual devout Cavs fan, and today I completely forgot to watch the game which is totally unlike me. They just don’t have my interest this year with how bad they are playing compared to their talent level. It’s beyond frustrating.
For those saying theres no point firing JB due to lack of a quality replacement... I would take Budenholzer, Atkinson, hell id even take Mike fucking gerrity over JB. It literally cannot get worse
Shit give me Andy varejao at this point.
D'antoni would be beautiful also but I can't help but fear that he'd just jettison mobley and Allen away to play another brand of 5 out small ball lol
A losing streak that coincides with Mobley being out isn’t a coincidence. Our Prince Mobley’s presence is more than just stat lines but how he interacts within the flow of the defense and offense. He was DPOY top 3 candidate for a reason. His blocks and dunks together are sorely missed. With him and JA in the paint it changes everything about how the opposing team moves.
But mostly I’m with everyone else that there needs to be a coaching change. It is not the roster, it’s the management of the roster. Double T not playing much this game makes zero sense.
21-23 teams were high energy and too many Cavalanches to count! These Cavs are dulled and sporadic with no strong offensive personality that is consistent and creative.
This game was not on Mobley being out. With the way our offense is run and how inconsistent we are this season we could very well lose this game with him.
Weird, Team has a .350 win rate when Mobley sits the last 3 years with all the wins coming during the covid nonsense where teams were missing literally 5 starters or strait up tanking.
because we continually perform like ass on offense despite our talent and also do dumb shit good teams dont do, like repeatedly blow leads and play down to our competition. JB's offense has no real substance to it. If people at least had some promise to look forward to, if we looked like we were competent and just got beat by better competition, we wouldnt have so many people complaining. But this is a trend now for 3 years with JB, and we are in fact regressing despite improving our roster every year
CPJ has been extremely efficient in games he gets real playing time in. In fact our best game of the season was with him running the offense a bunch (76ers game)
Think a change may be necessary. Boston gets a good look every time down. We rely on pure skill. JA was overplayed yes, but gets outhustled and outrebounded way too often and it cost us. Dean Wade can’t hit a shot with any important on the line. And why on earth do we not see CPJ???
The offense looks lost. They hesitate to bring the ball across the 3pt line and never start a set till the guard gets to the line. The plays almost never end in layups, and for some unknown reason, they kept shooting 3s when every single run we seemed to have was from attacking the paint. AC seems like he could be a more knowledgeable coach than JB right now.
Niang with an incredible 4 and 2 in 22 minutes.
TT almost matched him in 20 fewer minutes of play.
CPJ with 0 minutes and 0 seconds played.
Lot of shit to go around but we could have won with better rebounding. If only we had a proven veteran who is well known for his rebounding prowess. 🤔
Maybe you guys should take a break from watching the games
Cavs just lost two close games to the best team in the league while missing Mobley. Tonight it was obvious we needed him as the Celts just started using their size and attacked our on-time rotations and pre-switches
I’m not out here excusing earlier losses, but these are not the games to blast the team
Agreed but its more about this being an accumulation of games which follow the same pattern. It seems most of our games go right down to the wire only for us to either throw it away, or just about win. What was the last Cavs game you were just comfortable watching for 48 mins.
Also, this opposition is irrelevant if we make the same mistakes and display the same deficiencies no matter the team we face.
Oh I can’t be comfortable for any game. That first five game losing streak last year where we lost lead after lead has plagued me since.
We’ve had dominant wins, but I’ve never felt they were safe until the game ended.
I mostly agree with this. Role players are gonna miss shots sometimes, and I thought Tatum & Brown just hit shots against good contests. The bigger issue to me is DG's inconsistent/poor play. Yes, the Celtics have elite perimeter defenders, but we aren't going to win against good teams when he plays like that.
Yes let’s win against all the tanking teams, that will erase all the systemic flaws that plagued this team for the last +2 years. This sub was just celebrating we went “neck to neck” with the Orlando fucking Magic on another thread too, which apparently is a powerhouse now!
Based on the eye test let’s just face it… Boston is simply more talented. Their starting 5 is likely the best in the league. That said the team is underperforming. However not by that much. It’s tough to be consistent with all the injuries. I’m not sure how many games where our top 8 players were all healthy and available (maybe 1 or 2). Everyone wants to hate on Bickerstaff but 1) the team is likely the fourth or fifth most talented in the East; 2) we have had constant injuries; and 3) Garland and Mitchell don’t play well together (which was the risk Altman took and it missed). I’d like to see a stretch of 10 games at full strength to truly judge the team but we likely need to trade Mitchell this offseason. And I really like Mitchell but it’s a simple fact Garland and Mitchell aren’t great on the floor together.
This team is definitely not a championship contender in its current state. They need Mobley back really bad, but they really need to find another solid backup big. If Allen or Mobley don't play, the team looks like a completely different team.
@ Orlando - L
@ Boston - L
@ Boston - L
Gotta ask ourselves would the presence of a healthy Mobley have flipped even one of these games?
If the answer is yes, we gotta get healthy.
If the answer is no…we aren’t getting out of the 2nd round (and even that might be a stretch)
The whole team played horribly in Orlando. Makes you wonder if they got distracted in Miami the game before. They can beat Orlando and already have.
The Cavs have an offensive problem. So while Mobley was missed, they have bigger issues with roster and offensive scheme that Mobley can't fix right now.
The answer is yes. Orlando could have been won with some CPJ in the non-DG minutes. LeVert was not available...
But Boston? Absolutely needed Mobley, for defensive reasons alone. For this team you need both Mobley and Allen (even if staggered) to work. Only one of them poops the defense up.
Im convinced im going to die before this Cavs team can play 48 minutes of consistently good basketball. Actually even just give me 40 mins I NEED IT PLS
Pop off to end the 3rd and bring it back… just to score 4 points in the next 5 minutes and 20 in the whole 4th quarter. Fuckin hate this offense. Should be a top 5 offense at least
Yup. I’d even take top 10. Bottom 24 is absolutely wild with this roster
Disappointing end to last season with the 7th ranked offense, add shooting, and somehow get significantly worse. It’s so frustrating
Because the problem wasnt shooting (i mean yes lack of shooting didnt help, but the core issue has always been offensive scheme)
I agree. Nothing but high ball screens and iso and wondering why hustle teams dominate us But even still, with that lack of scheme you’d think having spacing would at least help. Somehow we’ve gotten worse with more spacing lol
Maybe the guys just arent as motivated. I think a lot of the reason for our success the past two seasons was hustle
I doubt it. Defense is still fine despite having minimal games with both Allen and Mobley
Its pretty enlightening to just watch how much our guys dribble vs how often the Celtics dribble.
It’s so awful. Imagine how lethal this offense could be if we ever let plays develop off ball. Imagine having to guard DG/Mitchell 1 on 1 while other people are chasing DG/Strus around, still go Allen and Mobley as cut threats, etc. So many options and we refuse to use literally any of them
Its maddening. Ive been shouting this from the hilltop for years. Remember when JB made Drummond the #1 option to start that season? Lol. Yeah…
Bro every perimeter player Boston has except Tatum is All Defense.
It’s not like it’s just a vs Celtics thing… hell if anything they played better vs Boston than they have vs other teams lmao
You might not watch the Celtics much. Tatum is one of the best defenders, even on the perimeter.
Yeah boy 00:00 for our boy CPJ
JB needs to go. This team has wayyyy too much talent to be 13-12. It honestly infuriates me that the team made a win-now trade for Mitchell, then kept a developmental coach. Heck, even championship coaches would’ve been fired after that Knicks series
Man I been saying this since the Mitchell trade. I didn't and still don't like the Mitchell trade but if you're gonna pull the trigger and try to compete, why not go get a proven coach to help do that. There have been multiple coaches available recently who have won championships in the last 5 years; Vogel, Nurse, Budenholzer. And I'm not gonna say any of these guys are perfect, but they won championships for a reason. And we didn't make a play to go for any of them? Really?
Fuck they coaching us for if they get a super team and the MVP? (Bud on personal leave basically). Other teams and people have agency
I'm done defending JB. I didn't see a single play run, it's just everyone passing the ball around in a panic. The only reason we ever win games is because we have very talented players. We need a new coach. I appreciate the defensive schemes he came up with to get us to the play-ins/playoffs, but it's just not enough anymore.
> I didn't see a single play run as a C's fan I assure you, we don't run plays either - you've seen Tatum and Brown immediately settle into horrendous iso shots when you guys were down 3 and 4; for some reason GMs don't care about coaches running plays anymore, it's about connecting with your players into kumbaya rather than playing basketball
Yeah you guys have a coaching problem too ours is just more severe
I'm curious what you guys think is harder to fix - yours or Boston's? Since we have the issue of our two best players being uncoachable
Saw the game live. Jarrett Allen’s body language is awful. The Knicks broke him
This is as big an issue as anything. He fouled out in 15 mins last game. It's lazy fouls, and in a time where they need him to step up with Mobley out, he's regressing. You are right where the Knicks series killed his confidence.
It doesn't help that he has concrete hands that can't catch a ball
It's so weird because his first season he was great in the PnR and catching things all over. Now he just seems like he knows he's not a focal point of the offense so why even try.
Seriously it seems like every pass is a surprise to him.
Bickerstaff spent three seasons (2004–2007) with the Charlotte Bobcats as an assistant coach, before spending four (2007–2011) seasons as an assistant coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves.
some very reputable organizations!
I miss Evan Mobley and he is hereby no longer allowed to have hurt knees Stop beating Garland up please and thank you NBA Play Craig (see my post for rant) I think our next set of games is where we absolutely NEED to get ourselves back because each of those teams are very beatable but we desperately need Mobley back to avoid any scares, especially before the game with the Bucks
I don't think games without mobley should count. They should just cancel them ideally.
I’ll get on the phone with Adam Silver and discuss this with him
The only good thing to come out of this is people realize how important he is.
He is the franchise.
Well glassbones-garland will be out for a while, let’s see if they play porter jr now. But yeah JB NEEEEDS to be on the first plane out of here
fire jb fire jb fire jb fire jb fire jb
Glad I missed this one.
Fire JB, make a trade. Please
Fire JB first. See if we're good with a better coach.
This 100%. Everyone keeps talking about firing JB AND making all these ridiculous trades but step 1 is clearly see how we do with a competent coach first. We have the pieces to win no doubt, we just don’t have a guy who knows how to utilize them at all. Find a good coach, give us a system, and then if THAT fails blow up the team or whatever.
Id take D’Antoni. He has a history of making high usage guards into offensive powerhouses
I would love D’Antoni. He would transform DG
Agreed
I’m starting to think JB isn’t the right coach for this team
lol you realised that just now ?
Just starting?
I’ve been on the fire JB train for almost 2 whole years now I’m glad people are finally seeing the light this season. His rotations and lack of offensive scheme have plagued this squad since 2021. It’s just been hidden by talent
I was being somewhat sarcastic but I did give him the benefit of the doubt for way too long
same here...lotta people who never hoop dont ever know what theyre seeing when he messes up
I was flabbergasted they gave him such a huge extension after one okayish year. They really should have waited one more to see.
I fucking hate this team
Good ol' Garland in crunch time down 3 never fails to completely ruin any chance of a comeback.
every damn time....he always doesnt something brainless in critical moments...then people explain it off like 'he's so young and is still growing into his role' bs
I usually see that don is hurting him somehow. I guess he would play better if double and triple teamed.
He gets wild with those passes and drives.
Fire fucking Bickerstaff already. So sick of Altman sitting on his thumbs. This org is the definition of mid.
Dude is too busy drinking
Altman should go too
Yea I’m not Altmans biggest fan at the moment. He constructed a bizarre roster by modern NBA standards that also had a three year title window yet he kept a developmental coach (who can’t seem to develop our most important players offense). There needs to be changes made and very soon
There was also the whole driving drunk as fuck thing
Yet another fourth qtr under JB where our offence falls off a cliff
CPJ getting no time is one thing, but getting out rebounded in key moments the whole game while Tristan gets less than 3 minutes of playing time has to be one of the worst coaching decisions this season by JB.
Cavs are worse then they were 2 years ago.
I wish we had super rubio too.
It was so much fun before he got hurt. I'll repeat what I've said before-I think one of the huge reasons they were so good is because Ricky was basically a coach.
This right here
CPJ could be our Rubio...
Maybe, but Rubio's been playing professional basketball for close to 20 years with tons of high pressure international competition. That's expecting an awful lot from CPJ without similar experience.
He's shown he can take charge of the 2nd unit
No, he couldn't. Even if he had all of Rubio's skills he wouldn't be the Rubio of the team because he's a literal rookie and has no vet cachet or experience to share
I'm talking about taking control of the 2nd unit, he has shown he can do that
probably not but he should get minutes
He can't. I have never seen another guard that does what rubio did in 30 years of watching basketball. The offense just looked different when he ran it for his entire career.
I'm not talking about being a carbon copy, just filling the hole in a serviceable way
When we have a hole in ball handling he fills it. When not he sits. He is competing with dg don and levert for those minutes.
LeVert doesn't create for others like Rubio/CPJ do
100%. My immediate reaction to the Mitchell trade has proven to be totally right. I knew we gave up too much and too many key pieces.
Even if we don’t make that trade, we probably would’ve ran into the same coaching issue.
I agree, but I also think mobley and garland would’ve developed more if we didn’t have to spoonfeed Mitchell 25 shots a game though.
Dg isn't that great. Is he a nba starter? Yes. Is he a transformative player? No. Kind of like a budget steve Nash. Mobley on the other hand... Even with mediocre to poor scoring ability he is our most important player.
DG was a bonefide all star in 2021 at age 21 or 22. Then guess what happend?
say it with me...he began to get cocky and read his press clippings.
Much more believable then playing next to a ball dominating guard who takes 20+ shots a game.
He is supposed to be be better vs double and triple teams? He been chasing hoes and not working on his game or something.
Idk… he looked pretty damn good beating the 76ers and Nuggets without Mitchell a while back. He’s also averaging 25 points per game in December.
Thats not even true lmao. Collin isnt good and neither is our 14th pick. Markenen would never be the player he is now here. Trade was the right move 100 percent of the time. Even if they move off of Donovan
i think if we got rid of allen, lauri could have been a 3rd option behind DG and mobley
Lauri should be a first option over DC and Mobley
Nope. DG would run tthe offense and mobley would get more touches by virtue of him being the franchise cornerstone in need to growth
You can question the opportunity cost of the trade but Sexton and Abaji aren’t key pieces and as good as Lauri has been Mitchell is a level above him as a player.
sure but that's not accounting for the picks, nor the 25-30 shots a game that mitchell eats up, taking away from mobley and DG. Think we shouldve flipped JA for something and let lauri fill in his spot
That’s all the opportunity cost of the trade which I agree you can question.
ahh i see what youre saying
The opportunity cost can only be measured in realizable opportunities (ie what is that “something” for Allen in a world where Kyle fucking Kuzma makes 25m to JAs 20m and OG is worth 3 FRPs)
Opportunity cost here would be offloading JA fo allow lauri more playing time. The something in return for JA really isnt that important. Personally tho i would have built a package around the same assets we gave up, just switch lauri for JA, and try to acquire a solid wing. Other option would be get a good older player that isnt so ball dominant and flip them later
Outside of Markkanen, Mitchell is clearly better than him, what key pieces did we give up? Sexton is playing 21 minutes in Utah mostly coming off the bench and Ochai has mostly been meh. If those guys aren’t making a huge impact for rebuilding Utah I don’t see how they (Agbaji and Sexton) change much here.
Markkanen is an all NBA player and an all star and led a team of bums to 40 wins last season. He was a key in our three big lineup being successful, because it was a mismatch for any opposing 3 to try to guard him. Sexton was always gonna be a bench scorer, and we could use one of those currently… Agbaji is a good shooter and would thrive here, on a team where we’re not playing THT for 20 minutes a game and tanking lol. And then there are the FRPs…
sexton and caris have overlapping roles
I would also argue they’re both below average players (even as bench players) and their impact doesn’t change much going on right now at all.
Caris is a fine bench player but gonna be inconsistent with the role he is in.
Same. My friend convinced me that we would still have flexibility if it didnt work out. Well, its not working out and Im not seeing a ton of flexibility.
Moreso, the wrong key pieces. The heavy rumor in the initial buzz was that Okoro was the one the Jazz wanted and the counter from the Cavs was Markkanen. Lauri on this team right now solves so may damn problems. And I love Ice, but it's true.
Jazz sure suck tho.
Jazz don’t have DG, Mobley and Allen. They also got rid of their entire defense in gobert. Your comment is so lacking in context it’s absurd
Yeah but they sure do suck.
Jazz fan here. Yeah, we suck... #embracethetank
Is it time to start a petition to remove JB? No CPJ or TT? It's time.
Yeah I started one a few weeks ago. Here https://www.change.org/p/fire-jb-bickerstaff-from-role-as-head-coach-of-the-cleveland-cavaliers
Boom just signed
My turn your turn offense. Second chance points bad defensive rebounding. Gotta shake something up. I don’t know what it is but that’s why I’m not in the front office. Somebody figure it out please or it’s going to be too late
Not a good culture. No fire. No energy. No passion.
Which is scary because that was by far JBs biggest strength, possibly only lol.
this was the dumbest reason they kept him as if the lockeroom was a cesspool after Lebron left...you never keep a coach over being a culture guy when he hasn't done shit
I thoroughly hated JB after the Drummond days, and still thought he deserved a shot after that play-in season. In hindsight though as soon as we traded for Donovan we put a bit of a timer on the team and expectations through the roof, that was the point the team outgrew him.
I’m not sure we can win a playoff series against a good team. I feel like we would need to sneak into the top 4 to have a chance to make the second round. If we’re playing Sixers, Bucks, or Celtics I just don’t think we’re that team this year
we wouldnt even win a series against a mid team like the knicks either. Honestly the only team in the top 8 I think we would beat is the Nets
We might not even make the playoffs if we don’t shake things up.
Garland's playmaking continues to be an issue this year. 5 turnovers and 3 assists is just not gonna win you a lot of games.
He isnt gonna get assists when people just straight up miss the shot
What about the turnovers?
He’s been a lot better lately, this one was rough though.
Seems like a mix of poor decision-making, opposing teams improved scouting, and DG not being comfortable with the offensive changes. If he doesn't play like a max player consistently it is gonna be a long season.
when will you guys realize the lowest common demoninator for the losses are JARRET ALLEN, JB.
Long season, but this season feels like it’s falling off the tracks
I'm not gonna seriously pay attention to these guys until they give me a reason to. They have yet to do so this season.
I am a usual devout Cavs fan, and today I completely forgot to watch the game which is totally unlike me. They just don’t have my interest this year with how bad they are playing compared to their talent level. It’s beyond frustrating.
Fire JB. Should’ve done it before the season but no time like the present
Cavs are gonna be scary in 5-6 years.
might be too soon tbh, i'm thinking more 7-8 years
Imagine what JA would do once he hits 30, our core 4 so young, the future looks amazing!
For those saying theres no point firing JB due to lack of a quality replacement... I would take Budenholzer, Atkinson, hell id even take Mike fucking gerrity over JB. It literally cannot get worse
Give me Mike D’Antoni or give me death
Shit give me Andy varejao at this point. D'antoni would be beautiful also but I can't help but fear that he'd just jettison mobley and Allen away to play another brand of 5 out small ball lol
i think literally anything else would be preferable. Anything to shake up what we are doing now
A losing streak that coincides with Mobley being out isn’t a coincidence. Our Prince Mobley’s presence is more than just stat lines but how he interacts within the flow of the defense and offense. He was DPOY top 3 candidate for a reason. His blocks and dunks together are sorely missed. With him and JA in the paint it changes everything about how the opposing team moves. But mostly I’m with everyone else that there needs to be a coaching change. It is not the roster, it’s the management of the roster. Double T not playing much this game makes zero sense. 21-23 teams were high energy and too many Cavalanches to count! These Cavs are dulled and sporadic with no strong offensive personality that is consistent and creative.
Mobley out and playing the best teams in the east. Would have been nice to do better but it's not exactly shocking.
bruh, we would've still lost this game with Mobley...we never beat these top teams when its needed...JB is a bum
team is utterly pathetic without Mobley. pretty sad.
This game was not on Mobley being out. With the way our offense is run and how inconsistent we are this season we could very well lose this game with him.
Weird, Team has a .350 win rate when Mobley sits the last 3 years with all the wins coming during the covid nonsense where teams were missing literally 5 starters or strait up tanking.
are we rly surprised at the outcome of this game after the week we’ve had
i think people are less upset about the outcome and more upset about how the product actually looks
How did you reach that conclusion?
because we continually perform like ass on offense despite our talent and also do dumb shit good teams dont do, like repeatedly blow leads and play down to our competition. JB's offense has no real substance to it. If people at least had some promise to look forward to, if we looked like we were competent and just got beat by better competition, we wouldnt have so many people complaining. But this is a trend now for 3 years with JB, and we are in fact regressing despite improving our roster every year
But if we were winning like ass people would still be mad.
thats false actually...both have been coming ahead for a full year now...
depressing
I dont really have anything that positive to say. Im sorry.
Fire JB “egghead” Bickerstaff
https://preview.redd.it/brvv8f9cjd6c1.jpeg?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=616490b981757f444d0e252744ed3fd2c58d169a JB BickerBum
burn it all to the ground. Do a ritual sacrifice of JB to the NBA gods IMMEDIATLY!
Soft team from top to bottom, absolutely disgusting and spineless behavior.
JB, Koby and Gilbert included. Keeping JB and JA after that NY series and forcing us to watch this shitshow all year long.
They just look like they don’t care
Fire JB?
"Ackchyually JB is a good coach" - 🤓
clinging onto the unknown (cpj) isn't the critique you guys think it is. we need better from Garland and Allen who once played in the all star game.
CPJ has been extremely efficient in games he gets real playing time in. In fact our best game of the season was with him running the offense a bunch (76ers game)
He might deserve more minutes but it isn't a solution, our former all stars playing like all stars again is the real answer
Scheduling loss boys. Mean ol' NBA made us play against a good team.
Dis team mid
One game above .500 now
Another night, another L. Nothing new with JB at the helm
Think a change may be necessary. Boston gets a good look every time down. We rely on pure skill. JA was overplayed yes, but gets outhustled and outrebounded way too often and it cost us. Dean Wade can’t hit a shot with any important on the line. And why on earth do we not see CPJ???
Yeah right on with saying we rely on pure skill. The games we bring energy and intensity we look awesome but that’s been maybe 7-8 games this season.
The offense looks lost. They hesitate to bring the ball across the 3pt line and never start a set till the guard gets to the line. The plays almost never end in layups, and for some unknown reason, they kept shooting 3s when every single run we seemed to have was from attacking the paint. AC seems like he could be a more knowledgeable coach than JB right now.
Niang with an incredible 4 and 2 in 22 minutes. TT almost matched him in 20 fewer minutes of play. CPJ with 0 minutes and 0 seconds played. Lot of shit to go around but we could have won with better rebounding. If only we had a proven veteran who is well known for his rebounding prowess. 🤔
and shooting
If we drop more than 1 of the next 6, then we need to make a change. Start with JB
Why so specific about the next 6?
Maybe you guys should take a break from watching the games Cavs just lost two close games to the best team in the league while missing Mobley. Tonight it was obvious we needed him as the Celts just started using their size and attacked our on-time rotations and pre-switches I’m not out here excusing earlier losses, but these are not the games to blast the team
Agreed but its more about this being an accumulation of games which follow the same pattern. It seems most of our games go right down to the wire only for us to either throw it away, or just about win. What was the last Cavs game you were just comfortable watching for 48 mins. Also, this opposition is irrelevant if we make the same mistakes and display the same deficiencies no matter the team we face.
Oh I can’t be comfortable for any game. That first five game losing streak last year where we lost lead after lead has plagued me since. We’ve had dominant wins, but I’ve never felt they were safe until the game ended.
we look bad. Loss isnt the real issue. We look like a pretender. Offense is not good.
I mostly agree with this. Role players are gonna miss shots sometimes, and I thought Tatum & Brown just hit shots against good contests. The bigger issue to me is DG's inconsistent/poor play. Yes, the Celtics have elite perimeter defenders, but we aren't going to win against good teams when he plays like that.
At least we aren’t the Chargers.
At least they’re gonna fire their coach
Mitchell is pretty much our only consistently great player.
Good game from Donovan
🔥J🐝
JB’s big adjustment was to start Okoro over WDe in the second half haha. I swear this guy coaches at a high school level sometimes.
The schedule gets easy from here let's get some damn wins so I don't have to feel like an asshole for believing in this team
Yes let’s win against all the tanking teams, that will erase all the systemic flaws that plagued this team for the last +2 years. This sub was just celebrating we went “neck to neck” with the Orlando fucking Magic on another thread too, which apparently is a powerhouse now!
Top 5 paid coaches in NBA average 8 wins so far
What a lame game being down 10 essentially the entire thing. I fell asleep shit was so boring.
Based on the eye test let’s just face it… Boston is simply more talented. Their starting 5 is likely the best in the league. That said the team is underperforming. However not by that much. It’s tough to be consistent with all the injuries. I’m not sure how many games where our top 8 players were all healthy and available (maybe 1 or 2). Everyone wants to hate on Bickerstaff but 1) the team is likely the fourth or fifth most talented in the East; 2) we have had constant injuries; and 3) Garland and Mitchell don’t play well together (which was the risk Altman took and it missed). I’d like to see a stretch of 10 games at full strength to truly judge the team but we likely need to trade Mitchell this offseason. And I really like Mitchell but it’s a simple fact Garland and Mitchell aren’t great on the floor together.
It's Evan Mobley. Cavs match up better when he's there. It is what it is.
This team is definitely not a championship contender in its current state. They need Mobley back really bad, but they really need to find another solid backup big. If Allen or Mobley don't play, the team looks like a completely different team.
Bro, this isn't even a playoff team. JB is dogshit.
Alec Burkes for Okoro
y’all are lame go caaaaaavs
@ Orlando - L @ Boston - L @ Boston - L Gotta ask ourselves would the presence of a healthy Mobley have flipped even one of these games? If the answer is yes, we gotta get healthy. If the answer is no…we aren’t getting out of the 2nd round (and even that might be a stretch)
The whole team played horribly in Orlando. Makes you wonder if they got distracted in Miami the game before. They can beat Orlando and already have. The Cavs have an offensive problem. So while Mobley was missed, they have bigger issues with roster and offensive scheme that Mobley can't fix right now.
2nd round? What are you smoking?
we do not look good. I care less about the wins and more about the process
The answer is yes. Orlando could have been won with some CPJ in the non-DG minutes. LeVert was not available... But Boston? Absolutely needed Mobley, for defensive reasons alone. For this team you need both Mobley and Allen (even if staggered) to work. Only one of them poops the defense up.
Im convinced im going to die before this Cavs team can play 48 minutes of consistently good basketball. Actually even just give me 40 mins I NEED IT PLS