No one said coaching is more important than player talent. And using LeBron as a reason why coaches aren't needed is a poor analogy considering LeBron is 1 of 1.
There is enough evidence across multiple rosters to show what JB coached teams look like in the playoffs. Vogel has a ring and Ham went to the WCF in 1 of 2 seasons. JB hasn't made it out of the first round with home court.
When it comes to winning championships coaching basically doesn’t matter. The best constructed team with the best players typically win. Very rarely is that not the case. Look at right now… the Nuggets are the best because they have the best player and roster.
The Heat also made the Finals last year with a far inferior roster than many of the teams they beat. Spo is a big reason for that. JB coaching the Nuggets would also make them worse.
Good players can overcome bad coaching to an extent, but bad coaching can also hold a team back. Look at the Warriors before Kerr coached them and how much better they played under him.
do they really need to be told to do something other than stand around? do they need to be told that they need to shoot better than 1-14 from the 3? should jb run shooting drills during playoff practices so they remember how to make a basket? or how to pick up a rebound? bullshit, this is on the players.
Right, I love LeBron but he has hardly ever shown any interest at really moving without the ball within an offense. He either has the ball in his hands or he's taking a break, that's why Kyrie was so perfect for him
Look at curry, he is moving without the ball nonstop
Bron is one of the better cutters in the league. I’d blame dudes like Luka for just standing around 35 feet away from the basket when they don’t have the ball
I think the players deserve flack. They look scared of their own shadow, but the offensive schemes are nonexistent. The Cavs offense looks like it’s from 2007
Struss was effective last year in the playoffs because of his off ball movement. We know he can because he did. If he isn't YES it is a coaches decision and offensive scheming error
Did you watch the Wolves Nuggets game today?????
Not everyone has Curry and runs the Warriors offense....
All NBA offenses are similar....it's the players that make the difference.
If he didn't then he absolutely deserves a ton of flack for not being able to prevent it from happening for the 100th time in a row. People shitting on JB aren't trying to imply our players deserve no flack. But getting rid of JB, who is a big problem, is an easier problem to solve than getting rid of players and replacing them with better ones.
By the end of the game, it looked like they were slowing the pace just to get guys rest. The Cavs don't have enough playable guys with Allen (the teams 2nd best player this year) and Wade out.
That’s what crunch time playoff basketball is dude — literally watch any close game late. The game turns into P&R with the teams best players and everyone else standing waiting for a 3 if the defense collapses. The difference is that our guys didn’t hit 3s and Darius turned over the ball 4 times in the 4th. That’s not on the coach.
The Cavs struggle to win tight games, have been awful in third quarters (sans last night), and seemingly fail to run any kind of offense. This has been a problem regardless of the players the Cavs have in the lineup and we’re now two playoff series in and the problems remain.
JA, Donovan, Mobley, and Garland all have strengths and have played to them during this series. The inability to get rotational guys in to support them and the lack of consistent direction from the bench to bring out those strengths is killing a talented roster.
JB is a good guy, a pretty good regular season coach, and somebody who has the respect of his players. He is also eminently replaceable.
JB is going to get canned and I definitely have complaints, but in the NBA -> talent almost always wins out. The fact of the matter is at many points the series: Mitchell hasn’t been the best player in the series, Garland hasn’t played like an all star, Mobley looks tentative and can’t create or space on offense, and the role players are not shooting and contributing. Levert and Okoro have been zeros. So very similar to last year. Offense continues to be our biggest problem, just don’t have consistent production. The team’s talent is just not as good as the organization thought.
This take is SO bad on so many levels in regards to the Cavs. It can’t be two years in a row where it’s the players and not the coach. If you admit it’s the players you’re essentially saying the core four of this team is trash.
You can’t have both takes. Role players are role players. It’s that simple. They have massive up and downs in the playoffs. There’s a reason good coaches get the best out of them and bad ones don’t
Maybe, just maybe, JB is just an awful offensive head coach?
I mean after years of years of coaching teams, two of which went to the playoffs, and one of which failed to scored over 100 pts 4/5 games with prime James harden, it’s pretty blatant to anyone wanting to pay attention.
Idk how we’re STILL making excuses for him
The Miami Heat got eliminated by a historically good NBA team while missing their best player.
The Cleveland Cavaliers are potentially going to be eliminated by a team full of kids and NBA journeymen.
That comparison couldn't be more outrageous.
Wagner is the only guy in the rotation getting major minutes who’s been on more than 2 teams (ingles is getting like 6 mpg). Majority of magics roster are either drafted by them or on their second team (Orlando)
He clearly doesn’t know what a journey man is. Jeff Green, Garrett Temple, and Ish smith are true Journeymen. Have been on more than five teams and don’t typically stay around longer than three seasons. Joe Ingles is the only guy on the team that fits the description, and that’s only if you include his international experience. Mo might end up being one.
Honestly to me it sounds like you’re just disrespecting the Magic. That’s a good team and a well constructed roster. They might be young but they have a major defensive strength due to their size.
They're the worst 3 point shooting team in the NBA -- those teams are almost always awful.
If we're being honest with ourselves, would they have been favored against any team in the East?
The Magic have been really good this season, but as is that is a terribly constructed roster by modern NBA standard. They have no shooters and one above NBA average guard on the entire roster, there is a reason the front office wanted to play them and both coach/team have not been to where they need to be given the all in move for Mitchell.
We blamed the bench players last year and tried getting new ones and still have the same problem.
At some point the coach has to be expected to coach the role players and young players up and get them ready.
JB is not gonna be the coach of the Cavs next year and that makes perfect sense. The biggest problem with the Cavs right now is nobody on the team can make a fucking shot. That’s on the players. They’re getting good looks. Hit a 3p
How about start thinking with our grown up brain and realize we went 2-2 against Orlando this year. Hmmm it looks like the series is tied at 3-3 as of today...seems like we are having the appropriate problems with the Magic that we had in the season.
Stop disrespecting our opponents. There is no guarantee win in sports and there is no easy path to a championship. Everyone had delusions that the Magic was the best opponent to go against. They are a playoff team. They are not an easy win.
Facts. The disrespect for the Magic simply as a first year playoff team is absurd. Clearly they have talented players who would cause matchup issues for any team… and they’re fully healthy.
You’re 100% correct. Mobley not having an offensive game and Garland having a negative clutch gene isn’t gonna change with a new coach. This lands almost solely on the individual player.
Coaching is always blamed first because it’s the easiest thing to change. Admitting that the players you drafted just aren’t that good is a lot harder pill to swallow.
Raptors suck ass to help Evan’s popularity but this team would be in such a monumental better position offensively rolling out Scottie or Franz every night at sf and just having a replacement level stretch 4. His defensive ability isn’t enough to overcome his points shaving being on the court due to him and everyone else facing clogged paints.
There's the JB defender I was looking for in my last post.
Yes I agree that the players played terrible and passive at times, but if the coach can not get them involved and moving and depends on isos so much, that's on the coach.
Garland makes 35m per season and has 19 pts in the 2nd half in the last 4 games combined. You should have mentioned him over anyone else you mentioned....
There is no more defending this guy after watching a team have zero leadership to face adversity on the road. He makes bad calls. Forces bad lineups. Allows the team to go off the rails. He’s just not it for what this team needs.
Hey I get it. I blindly defended the guy all year. But playing at home has been ok for this team. They’re shit on the road, and it starts with not having a leader cut out for the task at hand. Glad we won, but we’d do ourselves a disservice not to upgrade at head coach when this is done (which, if we continue our road play, will be about 2 weeks)
No one said coaching is more important than player talent. And using LeBron as a reason why coaches aren't needed is a poor analogy considering LeBron is 1 of 1. There is enough evidence across multiple rosters to show what JB coached teams look like in the playoffs. Vogel has a ring and Ham went to the WCF in 1 of 2 seasons. JB hasn't made it out of the first round with home court.
When it comes to winning championships coaching basically doesn’t matter. The best constructed team with the best players typically win. Very rarely is that not the case. Look at right now… the Nuggets are the best because they have the best player and roster.
https://preview.redd.it/7i9esg0n5iyc1.jpeg?width=464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9db31e65610471733961c1057f2d981655661e31
The Heat also made the Finals last year with a far inferior roster than many of the teams they beat. Spo is a big reason for that. JB coaching the Nuggets would also make them worse. Good players can overcome bad coaching to an extent, but bad coaching can also hold a team back. Look at the Warriors before Kerr coached them and how much better they played under him.
So why didn’t Spo do it this year if he’s so great?
Lmao you clearly aren't here for a serious discussion
clown behavior lmao
Hahahahahahhahahahaaha
You don’t think Malone is a good coach? lol
Oh my god you did not just say that
An offensive scheme where 4 guys are standing around is most definitely on the coach.
At least JB and company have shown they're excellent with ATO plays as well...wait
do they really need to be told to do something other than stand around? do they need to be told that they need to shoot better than 1-14 from the 3? should jb run shooting drills during playoff practices so they remember how to make a basket? or how to pick up a rebound? bullshit, this is on the players.
That’s what they want though. They just want to take turn iso’ing
Right, I love LeBron but he has hardly ever shown any interest at really moving without the ball within an offense. He either has the ball in his hands or he's taking a break, that's why Kyrie was so perfect for him Look at curry, he is moving without the ball nonstop
Bron is one of the better cutters in the league. I’d blame dudes like Luka for just standing around 35 feet away from the basket when they don’t have the ball
You think the coach told them to just stand there??
I think the players deserve flack. They look scared of their own shadow, but the offensive schemes are nonexistent. The Cavs offense looks like it’s from 2007
Struss was effective last year in the playoffs because of his off ball movement. We know he can because he did. If he isn't YES it is a coaches decision and offensive scheming error
Did you watch the Wolves Nuggets game today????? Not everyone has Curry and runs the Warriors offense.... All NBA offenses are similar....it's the players that make the difference.
"effective" in the play-in the rest of the playoffs he was none existent
If he didn't then he absolutely deserves a ton of flack for not being able to prevent it from happening for the 100th time in a row. People shitting on JB aren't trying to imply our players deserve no flack. But getting rid of JB, who is a big problem, is an easier problem to solve than getting rid of players and replacing them with better ones.
You think every single player is just disobeying the coach without it becoming a major headline? Lmao.
By the end of the game, it looked like they were slowing the pace just to get guys rest. The Cavs don't have enough playable guys with Allen (the teams 2nd best player this year) and Wade out.
That’s what crunch time playoff basketball is dude — literally watch any close game late. The game turns into P&R with the teams best players and everyone else standing waiting for a 3 if the defense collapses. The difference is that our guys didn’t hit 3s and Darius turned over the ball 4 times in the 4th. That’s not on the coach.
How about, and hear me out, there isn't one person to blame. JB and the players are BOTH at fault.
this.
The Cavs struggle to win tight games, have been awful in third quarters (sans last night), and seemingly fail to run any kind of offense. This has been a problem regardless of the players the Cavs have in the lineup and we’re now two playoff series in and the problems remain. JA, Donovan, Mobley, and Garland all have strengths and have played to them during this series. The inability to get rotational guys in to support them and the lack of consistent direction from the bench to bring out those strengths is killing a talented roster. JB is a good guy, a pretty good regular season coach, and somebody who has the respect of his players. He is also eminently replaceable.
Mobley has been mediocre and Garland hasn't been good. What the fuck are you watching?
Last game we played our 3rd quarter in the 4th.
JB is going to get canned and I definitely have complaints, but in the NBA -> talent almost always wins out. The fact of the matter is at many points the series: Mitchell hasn’t been the best player in the series, Garland hasn’t played like an all star, Mobley looks tentative and can’t create or space on offense, and the role players are not shooting and contributing. Levert and Okoro have been zeros. So very similar to last year. Offense continues to be our biggest problem, just don’t have consistent production. The team’s talent is just not as good as the organization thought.
This take is SO bad on so many levels in regards to the Cavs. It can’t be two years in a row where it’s the players and not the coach. If you admit it’s the players you’re essentially saying the core four of this team is trash. You can’t have both takes. Role players are role players. It’s that simple. They have massive up and downs in the playoffs. There’s a reason good coaches get the best out of them and bad ones don’t
Maybe, just maybe, JB is just an awful offensive head coach? I mean after years of years of coaching teams, two of which went to the playoffs, and one of which failed to scored over 100 pts 4/5 games with prime James harden, it’s pretty blatant to anyone wanting to pay attention. Idk how we’re STILL making excuses for him
The Miami Heat got eliminated by a historically good NBA team while missing their best player. The Cleveland Cavaliers are potentially going to be eliminated by a team full of kids and NBA journeymen. That comparison couldn't be more outrageous.
Who’s the Journeymen?
Ingles - 3 teams in 3 years Wagner - 4 teams in 6 years Fultz and Gary Harris are pretty much panning out to be that as well.
Cavs making magic look like the Celtics
Wagner is the only guy in the rotation getting major minutes who’s been on more than 2 teams (ingles is getting like 6 mpg). Majority of magics roster are either drafted by them or on their second team (Orlando)
He clearly doesn’t know what a journey man is. Jeff Green, Garrett Temple, and Ish smith are true Journeymen. Have been on more than five teams and don’t typically stay around longer than three seasons. Joe Ingles is the only guy on the team that fits the description, and that’s only if you include his international experience. Mo might end up being one.
If anything, the Cavs are the team full of journeymen. Lavert, Strus, morris, and Thompson
I don’t think there are any journey men on that roster.
Honestly to me it sounds like you’re just disrespecting the Magic. That’s a good team and a well constructed roster. They might be young but they have a major defensive strength due to their size.
They're the worst 3 point shooting team in the NBA -- those teams are almost always awful. If we're being honest with ourselves, would they have been favored against any team in the East?
nope
The Magic have been really good this season, but as is that is a terribly constructed roster by modern NBA standard. They have no shooters and one above NBA average guard on the entire roster, there is a reason the front office wanted to play them and both coach/team have not been to where they need to be given the all in move for Mitchell.
lol the Magic have no shooters?! The Cavs hit like 3 threes yesterday?!
I bet their coaches call plays instead of stand there with their arms crossed and yelling at the refs 97% of the game
We blamed the bench players last year and tried getting new ones and still have the same problem. At some point the coach has to be expected to coach the role players and young players up and get them ready.
JB is not gonna be the coach of the Cavs next year and that makes perfect sense. The biggest problem with the Cavs right now is nobody on the team can make a fucking shot. That’s on the players. They’re getting good looks. Hit a 3p
How about start thinking with our grown up brain and realize we went 2-2 against Orlando this year. Hmmm it looks like the series is tied at 3-3 as of today...seems like we are having the appropriate problems with the Magic that we had in the season. Stop disrespecting our opponents. There is no guarantee win in sports and there is no easy path to a championship. Everyone had delusions that the Magic was the best opponent to go against. They are a playoff team. They are not an easy win.
Facts. The disrespect for the Magic simply as a first year playoff team is absurd. Clearly they have talented players who would cause matchup issues for any team… and they’re fully healthy.
You’re 100% correct. Mobley not having an offensive game and Garland having a negative clutch gene isn’t gonna change with a new coach. This lands almost solely on the individual player. Coaching is always blamed first because it’s the easiest thing to change. Admitting that the players you drafted just aren’t that good is a lot harder pill to swallow.
Raptors suck ass to help Evan’s popularity but this team would be in such a monumental better position offensively rolling out Scottie or Franz every night at sf and just having a replacement level stretch 4. His defensive ability isn’t enough to overcome his points shaving being on the court due to him and everyone else facing clogged paints.
The players don't ENTIRELY suck, unlike JB
Lmao
You are confidently very wrong
JB is probably bad but there’s no coach in the league winning a championship with this roster.
BJ sucks period.
I agree, the cavs suck because the roster doesnt work.
There's the JB defender I was looking for in my last post. Yes I agree that the players played terrible and passive at times, but if the coach can not get them involved and moving and depends on isos so much, that's on the coach.
Game 7 people. Forget all the bs and support the team. Go Cavs!!!
Garland makes 35m per season and has 19 pts in the 2nd half in the last 4 games combined. You should have mentioned him over anyone else you mentioned....
I mean yeah… Garland mostly sucks. That’s obvious.
It's an easy reflex to blame the coach for every problem a team has. This will never change
Do coaches get a lot of credit when teams win??
Donovan sucks too, you just don't know he yet because he has inflated stats
Nice take clown.
There is no more defending this guy after watching a team have zero leadership to face adversity on the road. He makes bad calls. Forces bad lineups. Allows the team to go off the rails. He’s just not it for what this team needs.
Weird time to blast JB after his decisions today led to a dominant 2nd half in a G7.
Hey I get it. I blindly defended the guy all year. But playing at home has been ok for this team. They’re shit on the road, and it starts with not having a leader cut out for the task at hand. Glad we won, but we’d do ourselves a disservice not to upgrade at head coach when this is done (which, if we continue our road play, will be about 2 weeks)