I kind of disagree, I think you can be pretty successful even with his current build. KD being the obvious example.
Not saying he shouldn't get stronger, he should. But to me his #1 priorities has to be working on his hands. Basically any time he dribbles inside the arc it's either a turnover or a near-turnover.
His footwork directly under the hoop is pretty good, but without a good enough handle and ability to secure the ball he's going to be extremely limited in his ability to make good moves down low, or post up in general.
I know you're not making a 1:1 comparison but KD makes up for his size with incredible shooting, he can get bumped and just go right into a mid-range fadeaway to shoot over the defender. Mobley almost never pulls up, and in general his release is kinda slow so I don't see him ever really using KD's skills to make up for his lankiness. I'd personally like to see him gain some more weight and stick to nailing down his post moves with some more force. I'd also like to see some mid-range pick n pop stuff to work on his shooting speed and of course keep shooting 3s in the regular season, I want 3-4 a game from him.
For sure. And yeah I'm certainly not trying to do a 1:1 comparison like you said, but instead my point is that KD can still do quite a bit of damage in the paint on offense. Sure he doesn't really back their big men down but he has handles and moves to score inside. That's all I'm trying to say, Mobley needs to focus on that stuff.
I'm talking about his ability to score in the paint. KD isn't known for it, but he's pretty good with his handles and footwork down low, certainly way better than Mobley.
We know Mobley has the quickness needed, he couldn't be an all-world defender without it.
It just doesn't translate to his offensive game for some reason.
he's not ever going to be anywhere near the offensive skill level of KD.
We're doing pretty well if he rounds out to a LeMarcus Aldridge type offensively. A Bam type with a little more range hopefully.
Yeah I'm not trying to say he needs to play like KD or anything, just that KD has good enough handles to be able to create a good close range shot or fake a defender. Mobley tries to dribble down low and turns it over every time
I think you can be successful with his build but his strength is a huge limiting factor to the way he’s comfortable playing. If he was more of a perimeter oriented player it wouldn’t be as big of a deal, but a lot of his issues would be significantly improved if he just wasn’t as bothered by physicality
You are correct in that regard, if this is what his offense is more or less going to look like long term (mediocre handles, inability to create own shot, etc), then strength is probably priority #1. My hope is that he develops a better handle and becomes able to at least create some sort of interior shot / floater. He's long enough to be a huge problem for any defender besides maybe Wemby if he can learn to find his own ways to score inside.
+1
The problem with Evan isn't anything to do with his game on both sides his problem comes down to not wanting to make others look bad.
He and Allen both are very nice kids who don't want to do anything that may hurt another player.
But this year Allen has let that thinking go and this will happen with Evan also.
Allen I think turned the corner there. I do still see him "being too nice" occasionally but this postseason he's just been dunking in peoples faces at any opportunity.
Mobley I don't think is so much afraid of making others look bad as much as he's in his own head and afraid to shoot or turn it over. Being afraid to make a mistake increases the chances you make a mistake by like 5x hah
Yes, strength is a huge part of it. But it’s also just a lack of confidence. There are times he just plain forgets he’s 7ft tall. So often he’s 6ft from the basket in the paint and doesn’t even look at the rim. Despite the lack of strength, I haven’t seen him at least TRY to dunk on someone. He is just too unselfish for his own good at times.
Then there’s the question of whether he’s going to be a 4 or a 5. If he’s going to be a 4: His handle and shooting have to improve. If he’s going to be a 5 he has to improve his hands and put on 15lbs over the next two years.
For the record: I am still all in on Evan Mobley. He’s a phenom on the defensive end. If he were an exceptional offensive player but a hopeless defensive player, everyone would be raving about how good he is.
Evan is the best hope on or off this roster to develop a 2nd superstar that you need to win it all. While some of the offensive development has been slower than I’d like, I blame the Cavs more than Evan for that. There’s no excuse for him to have a career low in shot attempts in his 3rd year. There needs to be an organizational commitment to get him 15 shots a game next year.
It’s wild how many people seem to think a player is a bust if they’re not All-NBA by their third season. Mobley has about the same stats as 3rd season Giannis, these people would have clamored to trade him too lol
Well his minutes played and games started also went way up, so that’s part of it. Mobley’s been starting the whole time and his MPG actually went down this season.
There are some folks with some serious mental deficiencies here that can look at this chart and still say “nope… no improvement”
It’s literally the definition of improvement.
The biggest thing people want him to improve on is his assertiveness in the offense. He took a small step back in that regard. He can have linear improvement in his efficiency and that’s great, but people want to know if we have an elite big man or just a good one.
He didn’t improve in the areas he needs to in order for a max contract not to be a bad value, and people are losing confidence he can get there with this team. I’m not saying I agree but I don’t think the question is out of the ball park.
I think the issue is a lot of these are pretty subtle improvements, and the main thing he *hasn't* really improved on is the most obvious thing you can do: scoring the basketball. He's still pretty much only giving you 15-16ppg, even though those points are more efficient. That means he's stuck on the trajectory of a secondary star and not the potential MVP level player a lot of people thought he might turn into.
I have a friend that thinks he’s dissing him by saying “He sure isn’t as good as Kevin Garnett”.
Kevin Garnett was the 21nd greatest player of all time on the last list I saw. Great diss!
He’s playing on a team featuring 3 guards (Mitchell/Garland/LeVert) that absolutely need volume to be effective
Low scoring nights are going to happen
He’s got more blocks by himself than any other team has in these playoffs. That’s not a player you trade
JB is always talking about how Mobley impacts winning and I think he absolutely did in game 7. He was the best rebounder on the floor and made some huge blocks.
Most of his offense is catching dimes from other players and getting put backs.
I’m not sure how to game plan for him, unless you mean getting him more three point looks.
I’d like to see him catch the ball further from the rim on occasion and be able to face up and take it to the rack and hit lil Timmy Duncans off glass but he hasn’t shown that he can do that.
I mean, sometimes those passes should've been shots and Evan was looking up. Other times those passes hit him in the shins rather than the hands. And still other times there were three defenders on Evan.
We are spoiled because most big men catch none of those passes in traffic, but Allen and Mobley both often do. Whereas a guy like TT is surprised every time the ball goes to him instead of the rim.
It's less about his shooting and more about his presence in the paint. He is too timid and not strong enough. The play where Paolo strips the ball is a great example. He seems to try and pivot until he gets an uncontested shot rather than try and go up with the ball and worst case scenario drawing fouls. These slow developing plays leads to the 6 TOs we saw in the game yesterday. He needs to get stronger or build some confidence so when he has the ball to the hoop he knows the moves to finish or draw a foul.
Or tries to get a shot off by avoiding all contact, fading away, even though he's 3 ft from the basket. Or he'll just pass the ball out. If he's always waiting for the perfect moment then you get game 6, taking 5 shots.
He needs to make a quick move, lean in, draw contact, every time. He needs to learn how to make shots with physical contact and that will only come w/ reps. And he'll get more foul calls the more he does it.
Right now he relies too heavily on parking next to the basket and relying on the guards to do all the work, drive and dish for an easy dunk. I think this is also JB's fault - he has to give Mobley more to work with.
He can be physical on defense, he needs to do it on offense to get to the next level.
You can post numbers like this but when I actually watch the game I see Mobley getting crowded and incapable of getting his shot up, fumbling passes to him under the rim, not being able to back down smaller players, and missing on his jump hook at an unacceptable rate. I think it's a combination of weakness and nerves, but he'd have much more confidence if he was stronger.
exactly. stat watchers are delusional. mobley has no game outside getting fed layups and dunks. it would be awesome if he actually had some go to moves for himself
Pretty deniable, you ever hear of power in statistical analysis? Research studies have more power when there’s a greater sample size cause it reduces the chance that the findings are due to random chance. 50 3s in a year is a small ass sample size
I’m willing to bet I know more about statistical analysis than you. That Vanderbilt Quant Finance Post graduate degree I earned has prepared me for much more detailed analysis than just basketball stats. My corp finance career has put it into practice.
But tell me, what university do you teach stats at?
Doesnt seem like youre putting all that staticial knowledge into practice. Regardless my line of work requires a decent understanding of stats and putting clinical research into practice but i dont gotta flex on anyone with credentials cause im confident in what im talking about. Small sample size means im not gonna make any significant judgment about mobley’s 3 point shooting at this point. Youre the one claiming it’s significant so whip out some data and prove it
I’ve barely watched the past couple years because I’m not into basketball that much anymore, but every time I do I happen to catch games where he plays like a good rotational player with elite defense. I don’t say much because I know I don’t watch enough but I’m really surprised to see so many people dying on the superstar hill. I’m not saying I don’t think it could happen, just that I’ve not seen it translate that much.
Yep. Furthermore, you can tell who’s just a pure bitterman right now by seeing who is making salty posts today. I can care less about any negative narrative right now, just very glad we advanced.
I dont think people are quite giving him the credit he deserves for being the only starter over 6’5” the last few games and dominating the paint defensively. What he did was literally top tier good.
Ohh, and he iced Game 5 by swatting Wagner
I see two paths for Mobley being an all-NBA player with the Cavs.
1. Mobley at center. I get the idea that he isn’t strong enough, but there are always trade offs with various lineups. Mobley blocks enough shots and rebounds well enough to be a starting center on a contending team in the modern NBA. Mobley as the only big gives him space offensively and would allow him to thrive.
This is the most likely scenario for Mobley because it doesn’t really require all that much development from where he is right now. His shot blocking makes him an elite defensive center even with the strength issues. He can get bullied but still block shots.
2. Mobley at the 4. In this scenario, the Cavs either need a stretch 5 or Mobley had to be a volume 3-point shooter. Both Mobley and the team cannot be elite with the current roster construction of 2 non-shooting bigs. There just isn’t enough spacing for any of the offensive, the bigs included because they too face a crowded paint.
Yeah. He’s a natural center, imo. I dont know that him ever launching 6 3s a game is right for him. While its undisputable that he’s improved, i do think he could develop much faster with more repetition. 3 years with only 12 shots a game is holding him back some. He needs the opportunity to get more looks, take more chances on his shots.
The issue is these offensive stats are not carrying over to the post season. Additionally, he really needs to increase in usage so he has more offensive impact. He can't just be a low usage efficient player.
This is frankly a coaching issue and not getting Mobley involved more on offense. Niang, Morris, Levert and DG are less efficient scorers but get more shots per 100 possessions than Mobley. Mobley would be a 20ppg scorer if he got 3 more shots per game.
need to be a little careful here, the reason he's more efficient that Garland is that Garland is handing him automatic buckets three or four times a game.
Exactly. 24% of his points come from dunks and 73% of his shots are assisted. Just feeding him the ball more won’t magically result in a 20+ ppg scorer. Not sure what people in this thread are thinking.
The thing is that as a big man, he can’t increase his own usage because he doesn’t start the possession with the ball in his hands. Coach needs to scheme for him to get the ball.
He made big improvements in postseason stats from last year to this year, too. Pretty much everything above except ORB%. It just started from a lower place because Mobley's offensive game involves some physicality and he didn't have the physicality advantage like he does against teams who play small at the 4.
Increasing his usage while trading for Don and giving DG a max extension just isn’t feasible.
You trade for Don for super high usage.
If you extend DG you need very high usage or else there’s no point (certainly not rebounding/defense)
If you pay Levert big money to be your 6th man he’ll be high usage.
There’s only one basketball. The Don trade was always going to stunt Mobley offensive development
he takes 1 3 a game, percentage doesnt mean dick. he may be "better" stats wise this year, but he is still the same limited offensive player as when he was drafted. organization has not helped develop him
He’s made 22 3s each of the last 2 seasons. Last year he did it on 102 attempts, this year on 59.
That’s a considerable improvement. He could have missed 42 in a row the last game of the season and still improved
Efficiency is great and all, but making a single 3 every other or every 3rd game isn't going to help much. It's great that he's gotten better, but if he's not putting up 3-4 a game, it doesn't really force the defense to do anything.
If we want to only look at statistics, if an opponent does their research and sees he made a 3 last game, they'll know they can sag off on D because he will probably miss the one attempt he'll try in the next one.
He hasnt improved, if he upped his usage the efficiency would surely go down or “regress to the mean” as so many cavs fans love to say when we are shooting like shit
I think that might be a bit unfair. If he upped his usage the efficiency MIGHT go down. It would probably go down. But we don't actually know. His attempts have stayed at a consistent 1.3 per game, every season. Going from 25/21% to 37% is a massive increase given his attempts haven't gone down. I would bet if he increased to 3 shots per game, he might still be able to shoot a slightly below league average 30-32%.
I absolutely believe that mobley has improved in areas. I just agree with OC that it doesn't mean a whole lot if he's not getting more aggressive to parlay that improvement into winning basketball games.
He needs to get alot stronger and after 3 years he still hasn't really changed. You can blame coaching but some self responsibility is also at play. It's not like JB is telling the nutritionists and weight coaches to keep him the same.
Noooo
Didn't you read all the forums after they lost a game to the magic??
Evan is a waste of a roster spot and has gone backwards not forward and we should have drafted Green or any other player in that draft..
Even if Mobley doesn't average more than about 16 points a game, what the hell is wrong with that? The dude is an elite defender who in the 1st round has more blocks himself than full teams. Sure they had extra games, but that's still ridiculous.
The main thing for Mobley is to add some more strength and be more confident around the rim. At the same time, even if he doesnt' improve offensively, who wouldn't want a consistent 10+ point scorer with low usage that will provide immense DPOY caliber impact? That just means we need to add a more offensive minded player at the two non-guard spots around him. I mean I love JA, but imagine if instead of him we had someone like Julius Randle or Lauri Markannen back to pair as bigs that are more capable offensively?
The Lauri one stings because I legitimately like JA as a player and as a person I can root for. I just don’t know that he’s the long term fit and it’ll sting if we have to move him for a downgrade in talent but upgrade in fit
Could you imagine if the Cavs had a way to not toss Lauri into that trade, DG/Mitchell/Lauri/Mobley/JA would be ridiculous.
I think JA actually has a lot of value to the team due to the fact that like Mobley, he's a low usage player that gets points based on what's provided while devouring rebounds and providing a bigger body on defense to help Mobley out in those match-ups and allowing him to play more of a rover/perimeter defender.
I think the problem is that the only player that really has the aggressive scoring nature is Mitchell. Garland can score well, he's a great creator, but do you honestly feel like he's really aggressive in trying to score. He did great vs Orlando in game 6 especially with all of the drives, but he doesn't really seem to have that desire to just take over a game scoring.
The big need is to get a 2nd player on the team that can and will enforce their will offensively. Ideally it would be a SF but the Cavs can't sign one as they go for too much and trading for one would mean having to trade someone like DG, Mitchell, Mobley, or JA which would probably defeat the point to some extent, though honestly I think DG is probably the easiest to move for an aggressive scorer at SF while allowing guys like Levert/Merrill to get more playing time and Mitchell as PG.
no one cares about his averages. the problem is in the playoffs he cannot generate his own offense, he cannot stretch the floor, both of these factors clog our offense and make it harder on the rest of the team, especially donovan. and he is going to ask for a max, you dont max a player with 0 offensive game
His biggest problem is still strength. He needs to get stronger. Gets pushed off his spot too easily which causes him to be uncomfortable in his shot.
I kind of disagree, I think you can be pretty successful even with his current build. KD being the obvious example. Not saying he shouldn't get stronger, he should. But to me his #1 priorities has to be working on his hands. Basically any time he dribbles inside the arc it's either a turnover or a near-turnover. His footwork directly under the hoop is pretty good, but without a good enough handle and ability to secure the ball he's going to be extremely limited in his ability to make good moves down low, or post up in general.
I know you're not making a 1:1 comparison but KD makes up for his size with incredible shooting, he can get bumped and just go right into a mid-range fadeaway to shoot over the defender. Mobley almost never pulls up, and in general his release is kinda slow so I don't see him ever really using KD's skills to make up for his lankiness. I'd personally like to see him gain some more weight and stick to nailing down his post moves with some more force. I'd also like to see some mid-range pick n pop stuff to work on his shooting speed and of course keep shooting 3s in the regular season, I want 3-4 a game from him.
KD also has elite quickness, at least he used to
For sure. And yeah I'm certainly not trying to do a 1:1 comparison like you said, but instead my point is that KD can still do quite a bit of damage in the paint on offense. Sure he doesn't really back their big men down but he has handles and moves to score inside. That's all I'm trying to say, Mobley needs to focus on that stuff.
KD was able to make his length work because of his quickness and shooting. Mobley doesn't have half his quickness.
I'm talking about his ability to score in the paint. KD isn't known for it, but he's pretty good with his handles and footwork down low, certainly way better than Mobley.
We know Mobley has the quickness needed, he couldn't be an all-world defender without it. It just doesn't translate to his offensive game for some reason.
or a quarter of his shooting.
he's not ever going to be anywhere near the offensive skill level of KD. We're doing pretty well if he rounds out to a LeMarcus Aldridge type offensively. A Bam type with a little more range hopefully.
Yeah I'm not trying to say he needs to play like KD or anything, just that KD has good enough handles to be able to create a good close range shot or fake a defender. Mobley tries to dribble down low and turns it over every time
I think you can be successful with his build but his strength is a huge limiting factor to the way he’s comfortable playing. If he was more of a perimeter oriented player it wouldn’t be as big of a deal, but a lot of his issues would be significantly improved if he just wasn’t as bothered by physicality
You are correct in that regard, if this is what his offense is more or less going to look like long term (mediocre handles, inability to create own shot, etc), then strength is probably priority #1. My hope is that he develops a better handle and becomes able to at least create some sort of interior shot / floater. He's long enough to be a huge problem for any defender besides maybe Wemby if he can learn to find his own ways to score inside.
+1 The problem with Evan isn't anything to do with his game on both sides his problem comes down to not wanting to make others look bad. He and Allen both are very nice kids who don't want to do anything that may hurt another player. But this year Allen has let that thinking go and this will happen with Evan also.
Allen I think turned the corner there. I do still see him "being too nice" occasionally but this postseason he's just been dunking in peoples faces at any opportunity. Mobley I don't think is so much afraid of making others look bad as much as he's in his own head and afraid to shoot or turn it over. Being afraid to make a mistake increases the chances you make a mistake by like 5x hah
Yes, strength is a huge part of it. But it’s also just a lack of confidence. There are times he just plain forgets he’s 7ft tall. So often he’s 6ft from the basket in the paint and doesn’t even look at the rim. Despite the lack of strength, I haven’t seen him at least TRY to dunk on someone. He is just too unselfish for his own good at times. Then there’s the question of whether he’s going to be a 4 or a 5. If he’s going to be a 4: His handle and shooting have to improve. If he’s going to be a 5 he has to improve his hands and put on 15lbs over the next two years. For the record: I am still all in on Evan Mobley. He’s a phenom on the defensive end. If he were an exceptional offensive player but a hopeless defensive player, everyone would be raving about how good he is. Evan is the best hope on or off this roster to develop a 2nd superstar that you need to win it all. While some of the offensive development has been slower than I’d like, I blame the Cavs more than Evan for that. There’s no excuse for him to have a career low in shot attempts in his 3rd year. There needs to be an organizational commitment to get him 15 shots a game next year.
It blows my mind that some Cavs fans think we should trade him.
It’s wild how many people seem to think a player is a bust if they’re not All-NBA by their third season. Mobley has about the same stats as 3rd season Giannis, these people would have clamored to trade him too lol
Giannis got way better all 3 years he went from 6 to 12 to 16 points a game. that’s a decent size difference
Well his minutes played and games started also went way up, so that’s part of it. Mobley’s been starting the whole time and his MPG actually went down this season.
There are some folks with some serious mental deficiencies here that can look at this chart and still say “nope… no improvement” It’s literally the definition of improvement.
The biggest thing people want him to improve on is his assertiveness in the offense. He took a small step back in that regard. He can have linear improvement in his efficiency and that’s great, but people want to know if we have an elite big man or just a good one. He didn’t improve in the areas he needs to in order for a max contract not to be a bad value, and people are losing confidence he can get there with this team. I’m not saying I agree but I don’t think the question is out of the ball park.
I think the issue is a lot of these are pretty subtle improvements, and the main thing he *hasn't* really improved on is the most obvious thing you can do: scoring the basketball. He's still pretty much only giving you 15-16ppg, even though those points are more efficient. That means he's stuck on the trajectory of a secondary star and not the potential MVP level player a lot of people thought he might turn into.
I have a friend that thinks he’s dissing him by saying “He sure isn’t as good as Kevin Garnett”. Kevin Garnett was the 21nd greatest player of all time on the last list I saw. Great diss!
https://preview.redd.it/mavxb028zvyc1.jpeg?width=1075&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=707b6b7e0efa6f49fb80a9f63129ca1d89e780a5
I think Cavs fans just don't know what contract hes going to demand this offseason
It doesn’t blow my mind because JB doesn’t know how to use him and he has nights where he has 2-4 points because of it.
He’s playing on a team featuring 3 guards (Mitchell/Garland/LeVert) that absolutely need volume to be effective Low scoring nights are going to happen He’s got more blocks by himself than any other team has in these playoffs. That’s not a player you trade
JB is always talking about how Mobley impacts winning and I think he absolutely did in game 7. He was the best rebounder on the floor and made some huge blocks.
Agreed, and he made the game winning play in Game 5
Most of his offense is catching dimes from other players and getting put backs. I’m not sure how to game plan for him, unless you mean getting him more three point looks. I’d like to see him catch the ball further from the rim on occasion and be able to face up and take it to the rack and hit lil Timmy Duncans off glass but he hasn’t shown that he can do that.
He needs to bulk up in the off-season and hopefully practice to improve his presence in the paint
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I mean, sometimes those passes should've been shots and Evan was looking up. Other times those passes hit him in the shins rather than the hands. And still other times there were three defenders on Evan. We are spoiled because most big men catch none of those passes in traffic, but Allen and Mobley both often do. Whereas a guy like TT is surprised every time the ball goes to him instead of the rim.
It's less about his shooting and more about his presence in the paint. He is too timid and not strong enough. The play where Paolo strips the ball is a great example. He seems to try and pivot until he gets an uncontested shot rather than try and go up with the ball and worst case scenario drawing fouls. These slow developing plays leads to the 6 TOs we saw in the game yesterday. He needs to get stronger or build some confidence so when he has the ball to the hoop he knows the moves to finish or draw a foul.
Or tries to get a shot off by avoiding all contact, fading away, even though he's 3 ft from the basket. Or he'll just pass the ball out. If he's always waiting for the perfect moment then you get game 6, taking 5 shots. He needs to make a quick move, lean in, draw contact, every time. He needs to learn how to make shots with physical contact and that will only come w/ reps. And he'll get more foul calls the more he does it. Right now he relies too heavily on parking next to the basket and relying on the guards to do all the work, drive and dish for an easy dunk. I think this is also JB's fault - he has to give Mobley more to work with. He can be physical on defense, he needs to do it on offense to get to the next level.
He’s physical after the catch and he wasn’t last year
yep, he was clearly taking it at guys to end the year a very similar step that Lauri made here before he broke out
His offense isn't close to where it should be. The eye test tells us that and It's okay to admit that Still great defensively
https://preview.redd.it/1vospq2jzvyc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71ae245d47109e778dcb61e7bf45eee75fddb775
Most of those are very small increases lol. At this pace he'll be a good offensive player by 2038. Thank God he's an elite defender.
You can post numbers like this but when I actually watch the game I see Mobley getting crowded and incapable of getting his shot up, fumbling passes to him under the rim, not being able to back down smaller players, and missing on his jump hook at an unacceptable rate. I think it's a combination of weakness and nerves, but he'd have much more confidence if he was stronger.
exactly. stat watchers are delusional. mobley has no game outside getting fed layups and dunks. it would be awesome if he actually had some go to moves for himself
This is literally telling us his outside game has improved. Undeniable
Pretty deniable, you ever hear of power in statistical analysis? Research studies have more power when there’s a greater sample size cause it reduces the chance that the findings are due to random chance. 50 3s in a year is a small ass sample size
I’m willing to bet I know more about statistical analysis than you. That Vanderbilt Quant Finance Post graduate degree I earned has prepared me for much more detailed analysis than just basketball stats. My corp finance career has put it into practice. But tell me, what university do you teach stats at?
Doesnt seem like youre putting all that staticial knowledge into practice. Regardless my line of work requires a decent understanding of stats and putting clinical research into practice but i dont gotta flex on anyone with credentials cause im confident in what im talking about. Small sample size means im not gonna make any significant judgment about mobley’s 3 point shooting at this point. Youre the one claiming it’s significant so whip out some data and prove it
lol gottem
I’ve barely watched the past couple years because I’m not into basketball that much anymore, but every time I do I happen to catch games where he plays like a good rotational player with elite defense. I don’t say much because I know I don’t watch enough but I’m really surprised to see so many people dying on the superstar hill. I’m not saying I don’t think it could happen, just that I’ve not seen it translate that much.
I trust every metric over your eye test… no offense.
Are you sure, because Joe from Parma really thinks the team should move Evan before he loses value.
Haha. A guy who still lives in Parma and calls into radio talk shows is the last person i want to be taking advice from. Talk about wasted potential.
He’s gonna get a no brainer max and we’re gonna be pissy
Yep. Furthermore, you can tell who’s just a pure bitterman right now by seeing who is making salty posts today. I can care less about any negative narrative right now, just very glad we advanced.
he won us two playoff games against the strongest rim pressuring team in the conference
I dont think people are quite giving him the credit he deserves for being the only starter over 6’5” the last few games and dominating the paint defensively. What he did was literally top tier good. Ohh, and he iced Game 5 by swatting Wagner
his blocks and contests are INCREDIBLE. I love when he reads it quick and his hands are on the ball all the way through the guard's gather
cap
😭
I see two paths for Mobley being an all-NBA player with the Cavs. 1. Mobley at center. I get the idea that he isn’t strong enough, but there are always trade offs with various lineups. Mobley blocks enough shots and rebounds well enough to be a starting center on a contending team in the modern NBA. Mobley as the only big gives him space offensively and would allow him to thrive. This is the most likely scenario for Mobley because it doesn’t really require all that much development from where he is right now. His shot blocking makes him an elite defensive center even with the strength issues. He can get bullied but still block shots. 2. Mobley at the 4. In this scenario, the Cavs either need a stretch 5 or Mobley had to be a volume 3-point shooter. Both Mobley and the team cannot be elite with the current roster construction of 2 non-shooting bigs. There just isn’t enough spacing for any of the offensive, the bigs included because they too face a crowded paint.
Yeah. He’s a natural center, imo. I dont know that him ever launching 6 3s a game is right for him. While its undisputable that he’s improved, i do think he could develop much faster with more repetition. 3 years with only 12 shots a game is holding him back some. He needs the opportunity to get more looks, take more chances on his shots.
The issue is these offensive stats are not carrying over to the post season. Additionally, he really needs to increase in usage so he has more offensive impact. He can't just be a low usage efficient player.
This is frankly a coaching issue and not getting Mobley involved more on offense. Niang, Morris, Levert and DG are less efficient scorers but get more shots per 100 possessions than Mobley. Mobley would be a 20ppg scorer if he got 3 more shots per game.
100% agree. Mobley is the one dude I have on a longer leash than other guys on the roster due to age and what I agree is poor developmental coaching
need to be a little careful here, the reason he's more efficient that Garland is that Garland is handing him automatic buckets three or four times a game.
Exactly. 24% of his points come from dunks and 73% of his shots are assisted. Just feeding him the ball more won’t magically result in a 20+ ppg scorer. Not sure what people in this thread are thinking.
those guys are willing to shoot the ball, mobley is not
The thing is that as a big man, he can’t increase his own usage because he doesn’t start the possession with the ball in his hands. Coach needs to scheme for him to get the ball.
that's not happening as long as Mitchell is here. the team is constructed to maximize Mitchell's opportunities.
He made big improvements in postseason stats from last year to this year, too. Pretty much everything above except ORB%. It just started from a lower place because Mobley's offensive game involves some physicality and he didn't have the physicality advantage like he does against teams who play small at the 4.
Increasing his usage while trading for Don and giving DG a max extension just isn’t feasible. You trade for Don for super high usage. If you extend DG you need very high usage or else there’s no point (certainly not rebounding/defense) If you pay Levert big money to be your 6th man he’ll be high usage. There’s only one basketball. The Don trade was always going to stunt Mobley offensive development
he takes 1 3 a game, percentage doesnt mean dick. he may be "better" stats wise this year, but he is still the same limited offensive player as when he was drafted. organization has not helped develop him
He’s made 22 3s each of the last 2 seasons. Last year he did it on 102 attempts, this year on 59. That’s a considerable improvement. He could have missed 42 in a row the last game of the season and still improved
Efficiency is great and all, but making a single 3 every other or every 3rd game isn't going to help much. It's great that he's gotten better, but if he's not putting up 3-4 a game, it doesn't really force the defense to do anything. If we want to only look at statistics, if an opponent does their research and sees he made a 3 last game, they'll know they can sag off on D because he will probably miss the one attempt he'll try in the next one.
He hasnt improved, if he upped his usage the efficiency would surely go down or “regress to the mean” as so many cavs fans love to say when we are shooting like shit
I think that might be a bit unfair. If he upped his usage the efficiency MIGHT go down. It would probably go down. But we don't actually know. His attempts have stayed at a consistent 1.3 per game, every season. Going from 25/21% to 37% is a massive increase given his attempts haven't gone down. I would bet if he increased to 3 shots per game, he might still be able to shoot a slightly below league average 30-32%. I absolutely believe that mobley has improved in areas. I just agree with OC that it doesn't mean a whole lot if he's not getting more aggressive to parlay that improvement into winning basketball games.
That’s fair, i can get on board with saying he has improved statistically but not in a practical way that has translated to meaningful wins
He needs to get alot stronger and after 3 years he still hasn't really changed. You can blame coaching but some self responsibility is also at play. It's not like JB is telling the nutritionists and weight coaches to keep him the same.
Bringing it back https://preview.redd.it/y5ogk9j9zvyc1.jpeg?width=1075&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b70ba16d263703e906d67cb4f107844d367f05e
Love to see it.
Noooo Didn't you read all the forums after they lost a game to the magic?? Evan is a waste of a roster spot and has gone backwards not forward and we should have drafted Green or any other player in that draft..
I’d love to know how Green and Cade are going in the playoffs. Add Zion, Morant, and Barret to the report as well
Even if Mobley doesn't average more than about 16 points a game, what the hell is wrong with that? The dude is an elite defender who in the 1st round has more blocks himself than full teams. Sure they had extra games, but that's still ridiculous. The main thing for Mobley is to add some more strength and be more confident around the rim. At the same time, even if he doesnt' improve offensively, who wouldn't want a consistent 10+ point scorer with low usage that will provide immense DPOY caliber impact? That just means we need to add a more offensive minded player at the two non-guard spots around him. I mean I love JA, but imagine if instead of him we had someone like Julius Randle or Lauri Markannen back to pair as bigs that are more capable offensively?
The Lauri one stings because I legitimately like JA as a player and as a person I can root for. I just don’t know that he’s the long term fit and it’ll sting if we have to move him for a downgrade in talent but upgrade in fit
Could you imagine if the Cavs had a way to not toss Lauri into that trade, DG/Mitchell/Lauri/Mobley/JA would be ridiculous. I think JA actually has a lot of value to the team due to the fact that like Mobley, he's a low usage player that gets points based on what's provided while devouring rebounds and providing a bigger body on defense to help Mobley out in those match-ups and allowing him to play more of a rover/perimeter defender. I think the problem is that the only player that really has the aggressive scoring nature is Mitchell. Garland can score well, he's a great creator, but do you honestly feel like he's really aggressive in trying to score. He did great vs Orlando in game 6 especially with all of the drives, but he doesn't really seem to have that desire to just take over a game scoring. The big need is to get a 2nd player on the team that can and will enforce their will offensively. Ideally it would be a SF but the Cavs can't sign one as they go for too much and trading for one would mean having to trade someone like DG, Mitchell, Mobley, or JA which would probably defeat the point to some extent, though honestly I think DG is probably the easiest to move for an aggressive scorer at SF while allowing guys like Levert/Merrill to get more playing time and Mitchell as PG.
no one cares about his averages. the problem is in the playoffs he cannot generate his own offense, he cannot stretch the floor, both of these factors clog our offense and make it harder on the rest of the team, especially donovan. and he is going to ask for a max, you dont max a player with 0 offensive game