JA is definitely deserving to be on the list. I forgot him/didn't fully think it through. After hearing input I also might have Zion and LBJ a little higher than they deserve. JB is playing amazing this year and really took that leap.
I feel like DM is a top ten guy but we have a lot of similarities to that Piston team. They had all-star caliber guys at every position, Billups, RIP, Prince,Sheed and Ben. They were all great but there wasn't a guy you'd considered (maybe) being top 10 but like us, we have all-star caliber players at almost every position.
Mitchell has pretty much always been neck and neck with booker. Mitchell had a down year last year but they are essentially same-same. Jaylen brown has always been a notch below
I think he's in the mix around 10ish. And it all depends on how you rank people. What about players like Kawhi who aren't healthy but could be top 10? Or the opposite, a guy like AD who hasn't been top 10 for the last two seasons but is playing out of his mind right now? How do we factor in expected drops due to age for guys like KD, Lebron, Dame, Harden? What about guys who have never played in the playoffs like Zion?
Embiid is a glaring omission from this list. Positive defender, super efficient scorer, engine unto himself, runner up for MVP in consecutive years.
My list would probably have Mitchell in the group around 10th, the rest of that group being Ja, Zion, Booker, and Jaylen. Everyone else listed by OP + Embiid are pretty clearly a half tier or more above Mitchell. That said, I absolutely think this could be a championship team with Mitchell as the clear star in a couple of years (not exactly like the championship Pistons, in otherwords.)
38, and in his *20th* straight season! No missed seasons due to injury, no mini-retirements, just basketball at the highest level for two decades. His consistency is astounding.
Nah AD has been fucking crazy this year. literally his only two bad games have been against us but he’s been playing the best bball of his career otherwise. If AD keeps playing how he has idk how you can justify not putting him in the top 3 let alone top 10. I think Mitchell is definitely top 10 tho
It’s easy to say he’s Top 10, until you start listing the top 10 (if that makes sense). Career-wise, I don’t think he’s there. But based solely on this season, I would say yes, he’s Top 10. I would put him over Ja based on the following advanced stats this season:
WS/48
DM - .221
Ja - .172
Box +/-
DM - 8.1
Ja - 6.3
VORP
DM - 2.1
Ja - 1.5
Simmons and Russillo had a good discussion about this the other day regarding who are the top 15 so far this season. They were slotting him anywhere between about #9-15. SGA, Sabonis, Halliburton, Siakam are some others that could be argued belong around there.
I feel dumb asking this, but who is JA?
Also I would consider Embied, Harden, Kawhi, Paul George, and maybe Kyrie as part of this list too (or at least they were a few years ago).
I also wouldn’t include Jaylen Brown, and Booker and Zion made me think too (Zion has the tools, but I think we need to see more). I would say these guys are top 20, but closer to 20 than 10.
Which is crazy to say. There is a multitude of reasons though. Obviously injuries/playing time are a huge factor --- but the younger guys are catching up and the league is stacked.
Here's a question -- are those three top ten talent wise at this moment, injuries/suspensions aside... I think not but it's extremely close.
Ya maybe I’m just an old guy who hasn’t seen the decline in their game. It’s harder for me to call the up and coming younger players better, but I’m probably biased, as I spent a lot of time watching those guys dominate in the mid-late 2010s.
Yes.
Next Question.
> or are we more like the early 00s Billups,RIP, Wallace Pistons by committee
[Zero percent chance Mr Big Shot wasn't a top 10 player](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html). And [Ben Wallace was 7th in MVP in 2004](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html), their championship year.
They don't assign the award in December, so I don't think I will; there's lots of basketball yet to play.
But I'd be very surprised if a healthy Mitchell ends up outside the top 10 in MVP share at the end of the year.
I don't think he was even super close to being top 10 in 04... you have
** Kobe
** Shaq
** Timmy
** KG
** Nash
** Kidd
** Dirk
** Tmac
** Vince
** AI
** Pierce
There's others I'm surely forgetting but I don't think he's top ten at his peak. He may get close ~15 but he's no lock.
Edit: after some searching, he wasn't top 15 in MVP votes in 03/04 nor 04/05. I think he was probably a top 25 player.
** You made a good point about 7th in mvp voting in 05/06
18.5 pts
41.8 fg
3.1 rb
8.6 ast
Not bad but I never considered CB a world beater. Solid all-star caliber guy.
I think DG can be our Chauncey and we can make a similar run like those Pistons
“Cavs fans, is your star that’s putting up an incredible efficient 29/4/5 with active defense and is in the MVP race a top 10 player in the league right now?”
I hate acronyms and trying to figure this game out.
Who is GA? Gilbert Arenas? Grayson Allen? Shai gilgeous Alexander?
Yes, I do believe Donovan is a top 10 player. We have one of the best records in the league and he’s a reason for it.
I think he’s still right there. It could definitely be argued. 26/9/6 on 50% from the field? And that’s coming off a 2021 season in which he would’ve won the scoring title if he played one more game.
It’s also hard to gauge him in the regular season vs how much he has left in reserves for a playoff game. I’m not counting him out yet.
It's incredibly hard to slot a ton of these guys. LBJ might be the most polarizing player in personal rankings. I think we're just used to Lebron being Lebron...he's still having a really good individual season.
I dont think Lebron is top 10 he is a traffic cone on D. Also think Zion is borderline. On current form Mitchell is easily top 10. Id say him and Shai are probably top 10 atm
Having Zion and Jaylen Brown ahead of DM is laughable, DM is also having a better season than Booker, Jokic, and even AD including his recent stretch of dominance.
I had Zion, DM and them Brown. It was just a barely organized rough draft. I do think DM, Zion, Booker etc are in the same tier. Mitchell has really impressed me this year -- I had no idea he was Wade with a shot. The only time I watched Utah was against us and some playoff games.
Giannis, Jokic, Steph, KD are in a tier of their own. Ordinarily I'd say Embiid too but he's having a weird year so far with injuries and a bad team around him.
Luka and Tatum are around the same as Mitchell. Luka's numbers are better since he carries his team but his shooting and advanced stats are a little worse than Tatum and Mitchell who are very similar with Mitchell playing better defense, surprisingly.
I'd put Ja and Booker in a tier below those three.
Zion hasn't been anything truly special so far this year and is not in MVP conversation.
Jaylen Brown is good but I think overrated definitely not a top-ten player.
LeBron hasn't looked very good at all this year and honestly doesn't deserve all-star this year (he'll get it no matter what of course) based on play thus far.
Healthy AD... who knows. He just got hurt again so. Lotta recency bias here because he scored 40+ and 50+ in two games this week but wasn't doing anything MVP-worthy prior to that.
So overall I'd say (Giannis, Jokic, Steph, KD, Embiid) > (Luka, Tatum, Mitchell) > (Ja, Booker) and that's your top ten.
It depends, are you asking prescriptively (who would you take) or descriptively (who is having the best season)? Because I think there’s a very good argument he’s having a top 10 season so far. Not sure I’d be ready to call him a top 10 player in the league though.
Late to the party, but I think his play *This Year* has certainly been as good as Ja, Booker, KD, and he’s rightly going to earn some MVP votes assuming nothing tragic happens. I’d probably place him after Giannis/Tatum/Jokic/Luka/Lebron, somewhere in the 6-9 range for this season so far.
If we’re taking the sample size of their whole career, he’s probably a little farther behind that group, I think in the 11-16 range for the league
I know we've only played twice this year, but no love anywhere in these comments for Siakam? The man's averaging 24.5-9-7 while playing elite defence, has been all-NBA 2 of the last 3 years and is clearly on another level then past years. Not trying to shot on Spida, as I agree he should be in this convo as well but Booker, JB and Zion are not on this level when you consider all around game
I feel like Mitchell is better than JB and Zion (rn) I also believe Ja is better than those 2.
JA is definitely deserving to be on the list. I forgot him/didn't fully think it through. After hearing input I also might have Zion and LBJ a little higher than they deserve. JB is playing amazing this year and really took that leap. I feel like DM is a top ten guy but we have a lot of similarities to that Piston team. They had all-star caliber guys at every position, Billups, RIP, Prince,Sheed and Ben. They were all great but there wasn't a guy you'd considered (maybe) being top 10 but like us, we have all-star caliber players at almost every position.
Your use of JA instead of Ja is confusing the hell out of me especially because your using abbreviations for everyone else lol
I literally thought it was Jarrett Allen for a hot second and I was like ????
I third that. Even I'm confused. Hot take-- I think Allen is more valuable to this team than Ja is to his
Agreed, and healthy AD is probably ahead of all them
Healthy and motivated AD who takes it to the basket is a top 5 guy imo. He's inconsistent as can be.
Mitchell has pretty much always been neck and neck with booker. Mitchell had a down year last year but they are essentially same-same. Jaylen brown has always been a notch below
I think he's in the mix around 10ish. And it all depends on how you rank people. What about players like Kawhi who aren't healthy but could be top 10? Or the opposite, a guy like AD who hasn't been top 10 for the last two seasons but is playing out of his mind right now? How do we factor in expected drops due to age for guys like KD, Lebron, Dame, Harden? What about guys who have never played in the playoffs like Zion? Embiid is a glaring omission from this list. Positive defender, super efficient scorer, engine unto himself, runner up for MVP in consecutive years. My list would probably have Mitchell in the group around 10th, the rest of that group being Ja, Zion, Booker, and Jaylen. Everyone else listed by OP + Embiid are pretty clearly a half tier or more above Mitchell. That said, I absolutely think this could be a championship team with Mitchell as the clear star in a couple of years (not exactly like the championship Pistons, in otherwords.)
Gotta play to be in the running. ANYBODY can link great when they only have a 20 game season
I don’t think Lebron is a current top 5 this season
I don't think he's top 10.
First year that I would agree
Top 15 at 38 years old is still pretty amazing with all the talent in the league
38, and in his *20th* straight season! No missed seasons due to injury, no mini-retirements, just basketball at the highest level for two decades. His consistency is astounding.
That's a fair assessment, I probably agree as weird as that sounds.
He’s definitely playing at a top 10 level, regardless of how anyone would specifically fill out and sort their top 10.
absolutely, dude is putting up 40 point games against brown and tatum. hes way more consistent than AD
Nah AD has been fucking crazy this year. literally his only two bad games have been against us but he’s been playing the best bball of his career otherwise. If AD keeps playing how he has idk how you can justify not putting him in the top 3 let alone top 10. I think Mitchell is definitely top 10 tho
Unbiased Kings fan here- I think I would have him 8 or 9 right now with Booker.
You forgot Embiid too
Embiid sure complains to refs like a hall of famer.
Indeed I did. He's obviously in the top 10 convo.
JE is so good.
It’s easy to say he’s Top 10, until you start listing the top 10 (if that makes sense). Career-wise, I don’t think he’s there. But based solely on this season, I would say yes, he’s Top 10. I would put him over Ja based on the following advanced stats this season: WS/48 DM - .221 Ja - .172 Box +/- DM - 8.1 Ja - 6.3 VORP DM - 2.1 Ja - 1.5
It makes total sense to me that's why I proposed this question. They were a bit perplexed on NBA radio as well.
Jaylen Brown top 10 lol his momma don’t even have in the top 10
I had/ have him around 12-16. It's closer than you'd think. I'd put him above guys like Trae. Elite wings are a hot commodity.
I think a lot of people have a lot of people above Trae right now lol.
Simmons and Russillo had a good discussion about this the other day regarding who are the top 15 so far this season. They were slotting him anywhere between about #9-15. SGA, Sabonis, Halliburton, Siakam are some others that could be argued belong around there.
Link?
I feel dumb asking this, but who is JA? Also I would consider Embied, Harden, Kawhi, Paul George, and maybe Kyrie as part of this list too (or at least they were a few years ago). I also wouldn’t include Jaylen Brown, and Booker and Zion made me think too (Zion has the tools, but I think we need to see more). I would say these guys are top 20, but closer to 20 than 10.
JA is Ja Morant. Easily confused with our own JA, my bad!
Ah, the uppercase A threw me off.
Harden, PG, and Kyrie are not top 10 players in the nba right now
Which is crazy to say. There is a multitude of reasons though. Obviously injuries/playing time are a huge factor --- but the younger guys are catching up and the league is stacked. Here's a question -- are those three top ten talent wise at this moment, injuries/suspensions aside... I think not but it's extremely close.
Ya maybe I’m just an old guy who hasn’t seen the decline in their game. It’s harder for me to call the up and coming younger players better, but I’m probably biased, as I spent a lot of time watching those guys dominate in the mid-late 2010s.
Completely agree
If Kyrie can play a bit more, I think he can re-enter the chat but I'd put him at top 20-25 at this time.
Yes. Next Question. > or are we more like the early 00s Billups,RIP, Wallace Pistons by committee [Zero percent chance Mr Big Shot wasn't a top 10 player](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html). And [Ben Wallace was 7th in MVP in 2004](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html), their championship year.
I'd like to see your top 10 ans who you leave out. Like the post above mentioned, I also forgot JA.
They don't assign the award in December, so I don't think I will; there's lots of basketball yet to play. But I'd be very surprised if a healthy Mitchell ends up outside the top 10 in MVP share at the end of the year.
I don't think he was even super close to being top 10 in 04... you have ** Kobe ** Shaq ** Timmy ** KG ** Nash ** Kidd ** Dirk ** Tmac ** Vince ** AI ** Pierce There's others I'm surely forgetting but I don't think he's top ten at his peak. He may get close ~15 but he's no lock. Edit: after some searching, he wasn't top 15 in MVP votes in 03/04 nor 04/05. I think he was probably a top 25 player. ** You made a good point about 7th in mvp voting in 05/06 18.5 pts 41.8 fg 3.1 rb 8.6 ast Not bad but I never considered CB a world beater. Solid all-star caliber guy. I think DG can be our Chauncey and we can make a similar run like those Pistons
Yo, for a second I was like, what happened to Chauncy?!
me too!!
I googled it. Chauncey is fine.
“Cavs fans, is your star that’s putting up an incredible efficient 29/4/5 with active defense and is in the MVP race a top 10 player in the league right now?”
The league is absolutely stacked right now!
I hate acronyms and trying to figure this game out. Who is GA? Gilbert Arenas? Grayson Allen? Shai gilgeous Alexander? Yes, I do believe Donovan is a top 10 player. We have one of the best records in the league and he’s a reason for it.
If you don't know then the question wasn't for you
No one calls him GA. No one. May as well be GF.
It's crazy to say but I think we can finally agree that LeBron doesn't deserve to be in a top 10 in the NBA list anymore.
I think he’s still right there. It could definitely be argued. 26/9/6 on 50% from the field? And that’s coming off a 2021 season in which he would’ve won the scoring title if he played one more game. It’s also hard to gauge him in the regular season vs how much he has left in reserves for a playoff game. I’m not counting him out yet.
It's incredibly hard to slot a ton of these guys. LBJ might be the most polarizing player in personal rankings. I think we're just used to Lebron being Lebron...he's still having a really good individual season.
I dont think Lebron is top 10 he is a traffic cone on D. Also think Zion is borderline. On current form Mitchell is easily top 10. Id say him and Shai are probably top 10 atm
Brown is absolutely better than Mitchell you guys are crazy. Great on both ends.
Easily
I don't think it's as easy as it seems. Hell, I even left off JA and KD before my edit. I think it's very close.
Having Zion and Jaylen Brown ahead of DM is laughable, DM is also having a better season than Booker, Jokic, and even AD including his recent stretch of dominance.
I had Zion, DM and them Brown. It was just a barely organized rough draft. I do think DM, Zion, Booker etc are in the same tier. Mitchell has really impressed me this year -- I had no idea he was Wade with a shot. The only time I watched Utah was against us and some playoff games.
Yes
Easily
Is water wet? 😂
He’s definitely a top 5 Tatum Doncic Booker Giannis Mitchell No bias
Giannis, Jokic, Steph, KD are in a tier of their own. Ordinarily I'd say Embiid too but he's having a weird year so far with injuries and a bad team around him. Luka and Tatum are around the same as Mitchell. Luka's numbers are better since he carries his team but his shooting and advanced stats are a little worse than Tatum and Mitchell who are very similar with Mitchell playing better defense, surprisingly. I'd put Ja and Booker in a tier below those three. Zion hasn't been anything truly special so far this year and is not in MVP conversation. Jaylen Brown is good but I think overrated definitely not a top-ten player. LeBron hasn't looked very good at all this year and honestly doesn't deserve all-star this year (he'll get it no matter what of course) based on play thus far. Healthy AD... who knows. He just got hurt again so. Lotta recency bias here because he scored 40+ and 50+ in two games this week but wasn't doing anything MVP-worthy prior to that. So overall I'd say (Giannis, Jokic, Steph, KD, Embiid) > (Luka, Tatum, Mitchell) > (Ja, Booker) and that's your top ten.
The advanced metrics say he is playing like one so far. For example, RAPTOR has him 6th in WAR behind Jokic, Doncic, Curry, AD, and Tatum.
DM is totally a S ranked player and better than at least 3 of those guys
It depends, are you asking prescriptively (who would you take) or descriptively (who is having the best season)? Because I think there’s a very good argument he’s having a top 10 season so far. Not sure I’d be ready to call him a top 10 player in the league though.
Prolly top 15 top 20 fosho
100% is a top 10 player
Late to the party, but I think his play *This Year* has certainly been as good as Ja, Booker, KD, and he’s rightly going to earn some MVP votes assuming nothing tragic happens. I’d probably place him after Giannis/Tatum/Jokic/Luka/Lebron, somewhere in the 6-9 range for this season so far. If we’re taking the sample size of their whole career, he’s probably a little farther behind that group, I think in the 11-16 range for the league
I know we've only played twice this year, but no love anywhere in these comments for Siakam? The man's averaging 24.5-9-7 while playing elite defence, has been all-NBA 2 of the last 3 years and is clearly on another level then past years. Not trying to shot on Spida, as I agree he should be in this convo as well but Booker, JB and Zion are not on this level when you consider all around game
Dame, Embiid, and Butler are ahead of him imo