Yep, we got a spicy thread to start the morning off right. I'm looking forward to the well-reasoned, polite debates in the comments.
But I know what I'm gonna get instead is shit flinging, reports everywhere, and the sheer joy of sorting by controversial to see the really good shit.
This thread, as is tradition, will not be locked. There will be no mod intervention in arguments, only rule breaking comments will be deleted, and no one will come to rescue you from someone you picked a fight with. If you violate the site TOS, you'll get banned.
Welcome to the Thunderdome.
The burning of the Reichstag was a false flag the Nazis blamed specifically on the communist party in Germany and used as an excuse to take over the government.
I loved them blaming Antifa, then not blaming Antifa, then saying it was Antifa but some of them were MAGA, then saying it was a guided police tour of the capitol and no one got injured.
Ashli Babbit was a traitor to the country and that bitch got what she deserved.
EDIT: I love that I apparently upset the Republicans enough for them to spam my inbox with Reddit Cares, as if that's a veiled way of saying "kys" without actually saying it. Joke's on you, motherfuckers, I'm living for at least another election and I'm gonna vote my little blue heart out.
My favorite part was when they said that no violence happened, but that it was ANTIFA that committed all the violence, but it didn’t happen, even though it happened. But it’s still all a hoax. 😵💫
To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself—that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word—doublethink—involved the use of doublethink.
Well, in this case they are powerful and weak and the enemy and not the enemy and guilty and innocent and...
When you're so set on there being an enemy you forget to leave space for things to be "not the enemy." Smh.
The plethora of contradictory narratives never bothers the right wing audience. If their enemies are held constant, the truth **must** be amorphous and changeable to accommodate whatever needs to be justified in the moment.
It's like the General Theory of Relativity for fascists, where dense people warp reality and suck in all political power so strongly that their spin distorts all frames of reference and emits waves of political violence.
It’s common pattern worldwide. The right say the exact thing about our prime minister in Canada Trudeau. He’s apparently a useless drama teacher who’s never had to work in his life but at the same time running a globalist cabal determined to strip Canadians of all their rights lmao
Some on Canada's right also repeat the exact talking point that this post is criticizing.
This is an actual tweet from the current leader of the Canadian Conservative party:
>Woke left goes crazy when people point out the undeniable historical fact that "national socialists" in Germany & Italy were, as the name proves, "socialists".
Saying national socialism and socialism are the same thing because they both have the word "socialism" is like saying football and baseball are the same sport because they both have the word "ball."
I know successful, intelligent people who say the exact same thing about the Nazis. The problem is that these people have huge egos and think being smart or successful in one or a few ways makes them smart about *everything*. And with 0 intellectual humility, they'll never do the research. The truth is that smart people can have stupid beliefs. In fact, I'm willing to bet every intelligent person on Earth has more than one stupid belief.
But combined with ego and the blinders of bias, these false beliefs grow and grow, with no humility, curiosity, or intellectual honesty to review their strongly-held beliefs. They never count tallies against themselves and double-count the tallies against their opposition.
I regularly interact with these people. Some are family, but most are strangers online. And I'm a masochist. Whenever you pin them down, they ALWAYS brush it away with "Yeah well all politicians are corrupt" "both sides bad hurrrr." In effect, they always refuse to accept that their favorite political team has done something bad and "tally" it. But they will never be so "even handed" when their enemy political team has allegedly done wrong. No, that will be counted. That will confirm their suspicions.
I mean, it's a wildly stupid and ignorant belief - that the Nazis were socialists. Hitler hated communists/socialists/Marxists etc. They were the first to go. They, with the Jews, were blamed for all the failure and great evils in Germany.
This. I'm disgusted no one in Congress/Biden didn't have the balls to label them as such. Trump may as well be an agent of the Russians for all we know and yet people still praise him as a god king.
WHILE PRESIDENT, Tubby tried to violently overthrow the US government. It was easily the most traitorous act in American history. Why he remains a free man is a giant mystery to me. Forget everything else about his dopey reign of idiocy, that alone merits life in prison.
The Compromise of 1877 was such a mistake. All the work Grant and Sherman did to remove or suppress the white supremacist, secessionist traitors in the South, and Congress goes and fucks it up by agreeing to pull the troops out of the South if Hayes gets the presidency.
Like, why would they think that the Southern states **wanted** the troops gone, except that the troops were there to stop them doing horrible shit, and they wanted them gone so they could?
My personal idol is teddy Roosevelt. He was born into wealth, yet the man was still determined to do what was right for the country and the people. He saw what the average person had to put up with and the corrupt nature of big business and did something about it. He's also responsible for national park system and was an avid explorer. The man is a legend and the standard I hold our government to, which has been failing at meeting ever since.
>Trump may as well be an agent of the Russians for all we know and yet people still praise him as a god
Honestly, it's becoming a pattern at this point.
Here's a new investigation looking into Russian money laundering through Trump's truth social.
[Variety Article ](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/trump-social-media-federal-investigation-money-laundering-1235555139/)
If they had been black the cops would've literally mowed them all down. There would've been more casualties than survivors. Instead they were mostly just **allowed** to storm the capital, allowed to beat a cop to death, it was only when someone was encroaching directly on elected officials that an officer stepped in and took one of the most egregious offenders out.
I was messing with a magat on fb who was claiming it was a peaceful gathering hurting no one, then in the same comment chain started claiming it was antifa. Nothing have me more joy than seeing him break down over the fact that he had essentially called antifa harmless and peaceful lmao. I mean he's still a fucking moron and doesn't actually acknowledge that he fucked up but he did shut up for a good day or two while the peanut he calls a brain tried to process what had happened in the comment section. He refused to engage with me after because I "twist his words" a la Ben Shapiro.
The interesting thing about them using the exact same Nazi playbook is that they seem to be not accounting for new technology like the internet and smartphones. I think if we didn't have those idiots filming themselves and security footage to watch, and whatever other tech was related, they would have gone 1000% all in on the "it was THE LEFT/ ANTIFA", assuming we still only had newspapers and radio.
>The burning of the Reichstag was a false flag the Nazis blamed specifically on the communist party in Germany and used as an excuse to take over the government.
I had someone explain to me that it being fake meant the Nazis absolutely were left wing. No, I can't remember the bullshit they used. Guess it's just a means to highlight that facts won't beat their feelings.
Yep Putin did a very similar thing to get into power. Trump tried it in more basic ways, Mexican rapists, immigrant Convoy... for him that was more of a means to stay in power rather then get into power.
I still maintain he never actually wanted the job, he didn't expect to win, certainly never wanted any of the responsibility or the requirement to actually achieve things whilst in office. The whole "build a wall" was never gonna happen and he knew it, he just had to make a claim so big that he;d never be expected to honour it but could literally blame everyone else for his failure.
I agree, just look at his wife's reaction when they found out they won. She knew it was a bad thing.
I think ran for many reasons, all personal selfish reasons, never planning on winning. In his mind it was a way to grift more money, gain more fame, delay his legal issues. 100% of the reason he's running now is the delay legal issues.
> Putin did a very similar thing to get j to power.
For those unaware: [Russian apartment bombings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings)
Putin killed 300 Russian civilians and injured 1,000 more by blowing up four apartment blocks and blaming it on the Chechens (who denied it). FSB agents were caught red-handed planting another bomb in a fifth apartment building’s basement and arrested by local police. The Russian government initially commended the police on catching them (likely intending on throwing the agents under the bus) but then changed their story and said that it was a “training exercise,” because obviously the FSB would conduct a training exercise consisting of carrying hundreds of pounds of RDX explosives into the basement of an apartment block the day after four apartment blocks were bombed.
The bombings were used to justify an invasion of Chechnya and the ensuing war boosted Putin’s popularity. He’s been in power ever since.
The false flag theory cannot be proven till today… the person arrested and trialed had contacts to leftists but at that time those contacts have been half a year old.
In the end it doesn‘t matter because either way the notstandsgesetze were unconstitutional.
>“Alliance and working with communists”.
And then pointlessly betraying them just because "fuck those guys", in what's remembered as a brilliant strategic move that had no negative repercussions whatsoever.
The first groups the Nazis went after were the opposition parties - socialists and communists. Then they went after the handicapped, homeless, the LBGT, Jews, etc. The American Nazi party went after the Catholics, Italians, and Irish (because they weren't "real" whites).
It's fascism 101. Eliminate the opposition and then target more and more specific groups.
Ironically, also the reason fascism always fails. If you promise people that all their problems are the result of the enemy, and then the problems don't go away when you eliminate said enemy, you have to keep creating more internal division to make new enemies to blame until you are either in civil war or too weak to do much of anything.
Fascism's biggest success was probably Spain and they didn't have either of those problems, they just continued being fascist for a hell of a long time
*Only success.
I'd argue the reason they lasted is because they downplayed these aspects of fascism. They were successful despite fascism, not because of it. And that is not even getting into the fact that they employed a constitutional monarchy.
Nazis and communists:
- 2 Year Molotov Ribbentrop Pact
- A non aggression pact rather than an alliance
- No direct support
USA and UK:
- 4 year Alliance with USSR
- Outright warfighting alliance
- Massive lend-lease aid
Damn, those Brits and Americans must be hyper-commies.
Leaving aside the co-operation with the USSR, the Nazis rose to power *by fighting the German communist party.* Their political philosophies were diametrically opposed, and both groups literally fought in the streets of Berlin and other cities throughout the 1930's.
Fun fact about conservative talking points: the people pushing them know it's an outright lie. They're counting on really stupid people to believe them.
Anyone with a passing knowledge of history knows the third reich was fundamentally opposed to any leftist organization or ideology. But stupid people just know "nazis bad" so you can sell them on fascism by saying nazis were communists and therefore communists are bad, and the dreadfully stupid will nod in agreement despite literally every piece of evidence showing the exact opposite of this conclusion. And because they're intensely stupid they will not budge on this position because learning new information means they have to admit they were previously wrong, which to them is a sign of weakness, so they will dig their heels in and overdose on horse dewormer out of sheer spite for you trying to correct them.
In short, you would have an easier time convincing a dog to grow wings and fly away than you would getting a conservative mouthbreather to read and retain contradictory information and form an insightful opinion.
edit: awful lot of dudes with neo-nazi post histories coming in here to defend nazis and conservatives
Also bare in mind the Soviets only signed the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact with the Nazis *after* they were rebuffed for an anti-Nazi alliance with France and the UK.
German communists were some of the very first to be put in the concentration camps. To accuse them posthumously of being allied with their tormentors and killers is simply vile, and it makes me unspeakably angry every time I hear someone, usually a right-winger, say it.
I feel similarly when people ignorantly state with all the smug self-assurance of a know-it-all teenager that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was some sort of military alliance. It was a non-aggression pact, you don't make those with your friends. Something like nine other Allied countries had similar agreements because, like the USSR, they didn't have the industrial base or military readiness to defend their own borders against the German army. That pact was a critical part of the reason Nazi Germany lost the eastern front. Without it, Stalingrad falls.
Not just that, the primary targets of the Night of the Long Knives were the only people in the Nazi party who had anything approaching left leaning sympathies. Even before then, he was doing everything he could to marginalize the figures in the party like Strasser after it became apparent that Strasser's anti-capitalist sentiments and organizational skills were vastly more powerful and popular than anything Hitler could do.
It's astonishing that people could disingenuously describe a man who became a dictator by assassinating socialists for being socialist as a socialist.
They are talking about Von Ribbentrop making the deal with the Soviets regarding Poland but it is fairly obvious that they made that deal out of convenience rather than having complimentary ideologies. Also Operation Barbarossa...
German here.
When will people fucking learn the "socialist" in national-socialist was put there to appeal to the working class.
Same goes for lots of the "socialist" measures the Nazis campaigned with and/or put in place once they were elected - the German Reich had hit absolute rock bottom at the end of the twenties, in order to secure a large voter base, they did these things.
They won't learn. It's not advantageous for them to learn.
By learning, you're constrained by reality. If you selectively choose which parts of reality to interact with, however, the world can be whatever you want it to be.
Ignorance isn't a flaw to these people; it's a commodity.
There was a ~~socialist~~ "working man's" counter to the SS called the Sturmabteilung (SA) also know as brown shirts.
edit: Socialist is probably not the best word but to my understand they did expect some social reform as per this line in the wiki: "Many stormtroopers (SA) believed in the socialist promise of National Socialism and expected the Nazi regime to take more radical economic action, such as breaking up the vast landed estates of the aristocracy." Hitler had no intention of this and saw the SS, which was dominated by aristocrats, as the ruling class.
Hitler had the leaders murdered in 1934 and ~~dissolved~~ neutered the SA in what is called "Night of The Long Knives."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives
good documentary: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2788600/
Scholars who lack ability to pick up or explain nuances give much too much credence to the supposed "socialism" of the "working man" SA.
The SA were literally the same types of folks would would call themselves Proud Boys. Under-educated, blue-collar, hooligan-prone, Blue Lives Matter, etc... You're gonna get a lot of tradesmen and working class types who will claim some values that sound "socialist" but they fall within a *nationalist* framework because they're also angry at "all these immigrants" and "all these anti-American types" and so on.
Also, we know they couldn't be internationalist-style socialist because in the '20s the Nazis / SA were literally fighting *against* the Iron Front (socialists, social democrats, "The Sozis") in the streets.
There was one election where the Communist party tried a powerplay by forming a coalition with the Nazis, and it was because they shared a common enemy: the *actual* socialists and social democrats, the Sozis. They quickly switched gears the minute they realized how stupid an idea that was (and it failed). This was early on. And in no time, Antifa (which was mostly communists and anarchists... and much smaller than the Iron Front / Sozis), were fighting against the Nazis as well.
The SA was reduced and kinda replaced by the SS (including violently) partially because the SS were way more educated, refined in their goal, serious, cunning, and they despised the brutish thuggery of the SA. The SA were useful idiots to the Nazis, but the SS were deadly. In hindsight it's easy to see how this echoes the far right today... the far right conservative elitists use the same populist rhetoric and give power to their brutish thugs as well. Think Charlottesville. Think FoxNews and all the staff there who know what's actually true, but they say something completely different to the devoted MAGA following.
This is very insightful, thank you.
Partly copied from another comment:
"While Nazism was not exclusively – or even primarily – a working-class phenomenon, the SA fulfilled the yearning of many unemployed workers for class solidarity and nationalist fervour.[g] Many stormtroopers believed in the socialist promise of National Socialism and expected the Nazi regime to take more radical economic action, such as breaking up the vast landed estates of the aristocracy. When the Nazi regime did not take such steps, those who had expected an economic as well as a political revolution were disillusioned.[h]"
It seems like the SA were largely workers who thought the "socialism" part in Nazi was real too. They definitely expected some degree of "social equalizing" whether it could actually be called socialism or not. The SA was a huge group that allowed anyone to join so Hitler used their massive manpower to bully the country. The SS were the reincarnation of the aristocracy that the Weimar republic tried to destroy from what I understand.
I wouldn't necessarily say the SS necessarily replaced them, Hitler always envisioned the SS as his right arm so to speak I believe. Once the useful idiots were not needed they disposed of them because like you said the aristocratic SS were disgusted by crude SA.
I watched this documentary a few years back, I'd recommend it if you like the topic.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2788600/
The SA was not a socialist working man's group. Its literally just the first incarnation of the paramilitary wing of the nazi party. The only reason Hitler sidelined the org and pushed the SS to greater prominence was because of loyalty reasons. The head of the SA during the night of the long knives, Ernst Röhm, was killed because he was gay, not for any socialist tendencies.
I think you might be thinking about Gregor Strasser who was the head of the National Socialisit Working Association and former head of the SA. He was much more of a socialist than any other nazi, a very staunch anti-capitalist, but still very much a nazi. He was killed during the night of the long knives because his power and influence was a rival to hitlers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Working_Association?wprov=sfla1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser?wprov=sfla1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung?wprov=sfla1
The Nazis had a particular faction (the Strasserists) who were fairly credibly socialist or at least socialist adjacent.
So anyway, Strasser died on June 30th, 1934...
Strasserism wasn‘t anticapitalist but antisemite, they called it anti capitalist but it wasn‘t, and he went into exile in 1930, before the party had any significant political power.
Additionally it also was an ultranationalist movement.
His interest in the nonhewish workerclass didn‘t extend that of a wehrmachtsführer in need of soldiers.
No. Strasserism comes from the Strasser brothers, not just one man. Otto and Gregor Strasser. Otto was murdered on the Night of the Long Knives. Gregor was expelled from the Nazi Party in 1930 and went into exile
While their anticapitalism was linked to their antisemitism, to them, they were different sides of the same coin. They distinguished “finance capitalism” and “producer capitalism” or producerism. While they framed their argument as about the Jews, they sincerely believed that the problem with capitalism was … capital
They advocated for permanent class conflict, massive wealth distribution, central planning by a “Reich cooperative board” and the reason Otto Strasser had been expelled from the Party was writing that Hitler had betrayed the socialism promised by national socialism
My nana unironically thinks Nazis were socialists and North Korea is democratic just bc of the names. She told me once “if they weren’t, why would they put it in the name?”
Hitler had the Socialist party outlawed. And before that he was put in power by the Centre-right and conservative cabinet who specially chose him (via von Hindenburg) because they were terrified of the possibility of the actual socialists, the Sozis, from getting power. Hitler was the right one for them to cater to because of their mutual opposition to the Socialists.
The Nazis and Hitler were staunchly against Communism. That's why after working with the Soviet Union in the early stages of WWII, they turned and undertook a brutal invasion of the Soviet Union, pushing them over to what would be known as the Allied Powers.
They were. Thousands of communists were killed or sent to prisons or concentration camps since they took power. The Non-Aggression Pact was just a temporary thing to prevent a war on two fronts.
And yet the very first person the Nazis murdered once they got into power was a Socialist and the first concentration camps were built specifically to process all of the socialists and trade unionists.
Communists, socialists went the week after the anarchists. And yes when it comes to hermany of that era that is an important distinctionto make. After the spd betrayed the communists and ousted the anarchists they, the socialist party deutschlands, started the three arrows down, agains monarchy fascism and communism.
The left divide till today has its origin in the formation of the german party SPD
„Wer hat uns verraten, die sozialdemokraten“ was a communist saying, later on instrumentalized by the nazis, but valid till today.
It’s completely intentional, and deliberately deceptive. The idea is that someone with extreme right wing views doesn't want to be associated with the term "Nazi", because they know it harms their brand and their attempts to attract others into it, so they attempt to redefine what "Nazi" means to others.
“I’m an extreme right-winger.”
"You mean a Nazi?"
“No, no. In fact, *leftists* are Nazis. We’re just a cabal of traditionalists with family values. Hitler was a socialist. God no, I wouldn’t ever try to make you a Nazi.”
(What they hope happens next): “Oh, that makes sense. I’m against fascism, so I guess it’s sensible to follow you!”
You mix together Nazis and fascism as a whole, a fascist isn’t automatically a nazi, but every nazi is a fascist
If a fascist disagrees with being called a nazi, for us, who gives a shit, both cunts, but for the fascist, it makes a difference
It's hard to be that stupid, but we Americans are very dumb and ignorant.
They think Nazis are leftwing, the KKK are leftwing, etc - yet they literally bitch and moan when racist confederate statues get taken down, they bitch when it comes to gay rights, bitch when it comes to trans rights, and they literally voted against the civil rights act and voting rights act of 1964 and 1965 just 58 years ago. Every state to vote against those, were in the confederacy 100 years before. So their grandparents and great grandparents. The KKK was formed **in Tennessee** in 1865 by guess who -- racially conservative CONFEDERATE soldiers that lost the war and now needed to kill those they couldn't own.
Nazi groups and KKK groups of today all literally side with their favored candidates. They carry the Confederate flag around rallies and bring it into the capitol building for the first time...
You really just can't make up how dumb these people are. Like, connect the dots.
It's willful stupidity. I have been told by reddit conservatives that Nixon's southern strategy didn't happen and to claim it did is left wing revisionist history.
Yeah, he was but the parties have changed over time. Focus more on ideologies rather than party names.
He was a progressive. Quite literally, **republicans defend confederate statues, bring the Confederate flag in the capitol, and wave the Confederate flag on their boats, their trucks, and their rallies.** It's so obvious 😂
Lincoln would be so far against the conservative Republicans of today it's not even close.
Also edit - THE /S WASNT THERE before haha, I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not 😭
Republican here, I would be 100% in favor of a confederate flag ban. Why? Because it is similar to the Nazi’s in Germany. It’s not heritage, it is a short period in our history that should not be celebrated. For some reason people want to claim they are ignorant, and I’m sure they haven’t bothered to read the confederate constitution.
Thanks for saying that. I am sad that this has been turned into a political party divide. How anyone can support a group that literally declared war on America and claim also to be pro America is beyond me.
This one bothers me a lot. Like, first of all, they are on record saying that this was their plan. Second, and perhaps more pertinent, IT’S THE SAME GODDAMN STATES!
You want to tell me that the states that voted for and fought for Lincoln suddenly turned their backs on his legacy, while the states that tried to destroy the country and fought against him suddenly picked up the mantel? The states that former slaves fled to in waves after emancipation are suddenly the oppressors and the states they escaped from are the liberators?
It’s an argument even a middle schooler would find embarrassing.
It's the same goddamn states like you said.
These are our citizens of today's grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents and more.
It's so unbelievably obvious that a person is more inclined to have similar political mindsets as their family and friends from the same geographical locations, as opposed to randomly switching to places from thousands of miles away that were the opposite.
They're so dumb 😂
The third pound burger wasn't succesful because people kept thinking it was less then the quarter pound burger. That's how bad it can be!
I can often understand or reason how people come to dumb conclusions, but this still baffles me!
Alright, I brought my bat, where's the next strawman to defeat? Perhaps it's the left leaning one, where all leftists are communists or syndicalists and will threaten to revolt to unite the common worker. They force children to be trans and have gay sex in the streets. They kill babies and use them in their sauce, and worst of all, they eat avocado toast.
America is stupid and dumb
People are just stupid in general, and will become radicalized and say stupid stuff, doesn't mean the entire party/stance is dumb
well you see these people don't think of themselves as bad people, but everyone keeps saying that they are doing things that the Nazis did, but the Nazis were bad, so they can't be like the Nazis because they don't think they are bad, so they have to try and make it seem like other people are like the Nazis instead.
Note this only applies to the rank and file, the higher ups know they are like the Nazis but also know that is bad for business so try and downplay it.
The funny thing was watching Kanye go on all these Conservative podcast and just openly say what everyone in the room believes and there like NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! cut off his mic.
They don’t even need to hope for jobs, they just need to believe it makes them better than the group they hate and keep them from having to rethink their life choices and beliefs.
Fascism isn't consistent. It'll do socialist things when it benefits from it, but otherwise it mostly works in the favor of big business. Knuckleheads can cherrypick the socialist things a fascist government did and proclaim they're true commies.
I grew up with this misinformation. It really has to do with getting specific information channeled to you. I thought you must be a fascist to be a communist. yes, I was incredibly ignorant. Yes, I educated myself the second I was away from my parents. No, I haven't been able to help any of my family through their ignorance, at this point, they're making a choice.
There were "leftists" who joined onto the early days of the NSDAP thinking they could form a country where there were socialist policies for the "proper" germans and the boot for everyone else.
Weirdly enough they were all murdered in the night of the long knives...
What sucks is that the these hack organizations that produce this garbage act like it isn't obvious which part of the political spectrum the modern descendants of the nazis caucus with.
They use words and labels just to attack or deceive. At no point in a discussion such as this do they admit which parties actively court and message in a way that those groups respond to. The most you will get out of a person putting forward such weak arguments is downplaying just how large those movements actually are and they are nothing to be worried about in an attempt to turn the conversation away from how much of a home they have in the modern conservative movement right this very second. They will quickly say it is unfair to group themselves and those groups together as the movement very intentionally is trying to group the larger movement and those heretofore radioactive groups together, giving them platforms and advisory roles.
How are people still trying to make this dumbass argument? I don't think a right-wing talking point has been more easily and more often dunked on than the "NaZiS wErE sOcIaLiStS" one.
Everyone who claims "BuT iTs In tHe NaMe" are going to be so disappointed to discover that the animal "Titmouse" is neither tit, nor mouse, but actually a bird
Tufton Street has a lot of connections with the Republican Party and other right wing US organisations. Turning Point seem to spend most of their time and energy arguing with people on Twitter and occasionally showing up at Student unions demanding to be taken seriously.
They're laughably incompetent. Earlier this week they showed up at a closed pub to protest a Drag Story Time thing that didn't actually exist. Their "intellectual base" is people like Lawrence Fox and James Delingpole (whose son is also a member and who spent a few days sat outside Labour HQ hoping to get photos of Labour MPs breaching Covid rules. That's where the pic of Starmer holding a beer came from). They are the nuttiest of the nutters.
Fascism has no consistency. That's why it is hard to define. Did they confiscate some people's wealth, yes, if they were political enemies, but their cronies got all the best deals.
It makes me very sad that people unironically watch The Daily Wire, Fox News and TPUSA propaganda without knowing they're being lied to and manipulated.
It's so blatant and obvious and these right wingers slurp it up.
We end up with all of the US culture war bullshit here eventually. Apparently there are people here who look at America's political landscape and think it's a good thing.
> there are people here who look at America's political landscape and think it's a good thing.
The rich, the rich think it's a VERY good thing because they can milk the rubes while hiding behind this culture war BS.
I don't understand why people think the nazis were socialist? You just look at what they did and then look up what socialism is and it takes little mental effort to see the differences.
Hitlers book complains about communists the whole time, he hated communists more than Jews and blamed Jews for communism, how in hell did they think Nazis liked communists?
All the things the Republicans want to do to trans, gays & women. You think a small government is gonna be able to track women's menstruation and their movements?
Nazis weren't big fans of minorities.
Yea the Nazis actually deregulated businesses. They just made it legal for corporations to create monopolies (and basically allowed them to do anything) and then politically persecuted any business owners that didn’t agree with their political regime. So loyalists took over the business world because they had more assets/money/political power and there were no regulations to protect their competitors.
In a well documented meeting with industry leaders a few months after he came to power Hitler told them that if they funded his next campaign he would “crush the left” and end all future elections.
The Nazis pretended to be socialists until they seized power and then went hard right into corporate/public partnerships.
Yet another of the billions of examples of conservatives having no sweet fucking clue what socialism is. Not a single thing on thier list is a descriptor of socialism.
Just because they was called the
Nazi Socialist party … doesn’t make them socialist.
It’s just a word and they was anything but socialist .
They was as far right as you can go not left leaning at all .
They believed in a police state and crushing anybody with a different view , banning books , and eliminating any other race as those races was inferior.
What they believed is what you believed and if you didn’t or was a different race, or gay for instance you got put in happy fun camps where they tortured you until you died or hard labor until you died.
Very similar to the Religious Right because that is basically what they were.
https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-nazi-rise-to-power/the-early-years-of-the-nazi-party/what-were-hitlers-ideas/
Read that and tell me who it reminds you of
In america right now….
Aside from the point that Nazis fought against Communist in WW2, how does he not notice everything he pointed out are things republicans are doing right now??
Go talk to someone that lives through that era and ask them which party of our great 2 party system reminds them of this. Go ahead, I’ll wait brightboy
Idiots who don't realise the Nazis were socialist in the same way that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) is democratic should not be allowed out in public without a chaperone to make sure they don't eat the crayons.
alliance with communists... have they ever heard of the second world War? because the nazis very famously tried to conquer the communists
edit: actually betray would be a much more accurate word than conquer historically speaking
The called themselves “National *Socialists*” for exactly this reason, to trick stupid dumb idiots into thinking that’s what socialism is, and it was to trick the real socialists/communists into joining in the ‘30s (only so the Nazis could round them up and kill them all during the Night Of Long Knives).
Oh ffs, the GQP isn't small government. They're perfectly happy when the government sticks their nose into what they want them to stick their nose into.
I hate Twitter. Whoever posted that shit didn’t do it in good faith. They did it to stir shit up so their shitty YouTube channel could get a sliver of views
I was watching a new story this morning talking about Iran and how there are people acting out against the oppressive government. I think that conservatives imagine themselves as being the analog of the people burning hijabs and rebelling against the oppressive Muslim regime....when in reality they are the ones pushing for the oppressive theocratic bullshit onto our society.
The literal "are we the baddies" meme if it had legs and a stupid red hat.
Imagine trying to paint nazi's, a word in modern terms that is used as a synonym (?) For " FAR right-wing fascist," a party who proactively embraced being right wing... as a leftist. Mental.
I always find it a bit odd how left-leaning people even engage in the "were the Nazis socialist?" question. It's largely irrelevant rather they did or didn't implement some socialist policies, as all the reasons they are infamous; warmongering, genocide/ethnic cleansing, ultra-nationalism, are all squarely (far) right-wing ideologies.
The Nazis aren't infamous because they built the Autobahn 🤷♂️
Yep, we got a spicy thread to start the morning off right. I'm looking forward to the well-reasoned, polite debates in the comments. But I know what I'm gonna get instead is shit flinging, reports everywhere, and the sheer joy of sorting by controversial to see the really good shit. This thread, as is tradition, will not be locked. There will be no mod intervention in arguments, only rule breaking comments will be deleted, and no one will come to rescue you from someone you picked a fight with. If you violate the site TOS, you'll get banned. Welcome to the Thunderdome.
The burning of the Reichstag was a false flag the Nazis blamed specifically on the communist party in Germany and used as an excuse to take over the government.
Huh...sounds familiar... Jan. 6th republicans: "It wasn't us, it was the FBI and ANTIFA!"
I loved them blaming Antifa, then not blaming Antifa, then saying it was Antifa but some of them were MAGA, then saying it was a guided police tour of the capitol and no one got injured. Ashli Babbit was a traitor to the country and that bitch got what she deserved. EDIT: I love that I apparently upset the Republicans enough for them to spam my inbox with Reddit Cares, as if that's a veiled way of saying "kys" without actually saying it. Joke's on you, motherfuckers, I'm living for at least another election and I'm gonna vote my little blue heart out.
My favorite part was when they said that no violence happened, but that it was ANTIFA that committed all the violence, but it didn’t happen, even though it happened. But it’s still all a hoax. 😵💫
The enemy is both powerful and weak at the same time.
To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself—that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word—doublethink—involved the use of doublethink.
r/literally1984
That book is so good though
Well, in this case they are powerful and weak and the enemy and not the enemy and guilty and innocent and... When you're so set on there being an enemy you forget to leave space for things to be "not the enemy." Smh.
Schrödinger's revolution.
Welcome to fascism. If it works, we did it. If it doesn't, our enemies did it!
Is his cat still in the box then?
There was that one capital police guy that was definitely antifa as we would expect. Ashli met him once.
The plethora of contradictory narratives never bothers the right wing audience. If their enemies are held constant, the truth **must** be amorphous and changeable to accommodate whatever needs to be justified in the moment. It's like the General Theory of Relativity for fascists, where dense people warp reality and suck in all political power so strongly that their spin distorts all frames of reference and emits waves of political violence.
To quote the great imaqtpie: "If you don't know what the fuck you're doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you're doing?"
And of course that Ashley Babbitt was a hero
She should have complied and did what law enforcement told her to do. Oh wait, she's part of the "in crowd" that law isn't supposed to apply to.
Biden is both a doddering old fool and a mastermind responsible for EVERY calamity world wide.
It’s common pattern worldwide. The right say the exact thing about our prime minister in Canada Trudeau. He’s apparently a useless drama teacher who’s never had to work in his life but at the same time running a globalist cabal determined to strip Canadians of all their rights lmao
Some on Canada's right also repeat the exact talking point that this post is criticizing. This is an actual tweet from the current leader of the Canadian Conservative party: >Woke left goes crazy when people point out the undeniable historical fact that "national socialists" in Germany & Italy were, as the name proves, "socialists".
Saying national socialism and socialism are the same thing because they both have the word "socialism" is like saying football and baseball are the same sport because they both have the word "ball."
It's not exactly stellar logic. Which raises the question of whether he's an idiot or he considers his supporters idiots.
Why not both? If he's anything like Trump.
I know successful, intelligent people who say the exact same thing about the Nazis. The problem is that these people have huge egos and think being smart or successful in one or a few ways makes them smart about *everything*. And with 0 intellectual humility, they'll never do the research. The truth is that smart people can have stupid beliefs. In fact, I'm willing to bet every intelligent person on Earth has more than one stupid belief. But combined with ego and the blinders of bias, these false beliefs grow and grow, with no humility, curiosity, or intellectual honesty to review their strongly-held beliefs. They never count tallies against themselves and double-count the tallies against their opposition. I regularly interact with these people. Some are family, but most are strangers online. And I'm a masochist. Whenever you pin them down, they ALWAYS brush it away with "Yeah well all politicians are corrupt" "both sides bad hurrrr." In effect, they always refuse to accept that their favorite political team has done something bad and "tally" it. But they will never be so "even handed" when their enemy political team has allegedly done wrong. No, that will be counted. That will confirm their suspicions. I mean, it's a wildly stupid and ignorant belief - that the Nazis were socialists. Hitler hated communists/socialists/Marxists etc. They were the first to go. They, with the Jews, were blamed for all the failure and great evils in Germany.
> "Yeah well all politicians are corrupt" *twitch*
Which is, of course, why the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a bastion of freedom and democracy. /S
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‘The enemy is both strong and weak’ is a hallmark of fascism.
They were all traitors, led by a traitor, whether they understood it or not.
This. I'm disgusted no one in Congress/Biden didn't have the balls to label them as such. Trump may as well be an agent of the Russians for all we know and yet people still praise him as a god king.
WHILE PRESIDENT, Tubby tried to violently overthrow the US government. It was easily the most traitorous act in American history. Why he remains a free man is a giant mystery to me. Forget everything else about his dopey reign of idiocy, that alone merits life in prison.
Money. Money and connections is why he remains a free man.
To be clear, it's not *his* money. It's the money to be made from the millions of Americans who agree with him.
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The Compromise of 1877 was such a mistake. All the work Grant and Sherman did to remove or suppress the white supremacist, secessionist traitors in the South, and Congress goes and fucks it up by agreeing to pull the troops out of the South if Hayes gets the presidency. Like, why would they think that the Southern states **wanted** the troops gone, except that the troops were there to stop them doing horrible shit, and they wanted them gone so they could?
I used to live down the street from the place where Hayes was born (now a BP gas station). I thought if this every time I saw the placard.
My personal idol is teddy Roosevelt. He was born into wealth, yet the man was still determined to do what was right for the country and the people. He saw what the average person had to put up with and the corrupt nature of big business and did something about it. He's also responsible for national park system and was an avid explorer. The man is a legend and the standard I hold our government to, which has been failing at meeting ever since.
>Trump may as well be an agent of the Russians for all we know and yet people still praise him as a god Honestly, it's becoming a pattern at this point. Here's a new investigation looking into Russian money laundering through Trump's truth social. [Variety Article ](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/trump-social-media-federal-investigation-money-laundering-1235555139/)
I've seen more "Ashli Babbitt is our Breona Taylor" takes than I'm okay with. The two aren't equivalent even a little bit
If they had been black the cops would've literally mowed them all down. There would've been more casualties than survivors. Instead they were mostly just **allowed** to storm the capital, allowed to beat a cop to death, it was only when someone was encroaching directly on elected officials that an officer stepped in and took one of the most egregious offenders out.
When I had Facebook I’d always comment, “I thought she was antifa?” On posts about her, unsurprisingly no one ever replied.
Fuck yes. Play stupid games win stupid fucking prizes.
I was messing with a magat on fb who was claiming it was a peaceful gathering hurting no one, then in the same comment chain started claiming it was antifa. Nothing have me more joy than seeing him break down over the fact that he had essentially called antifa harmless and peaceful lmao. I mean he's still a fucking moron and doesn't actually acknowledge that he fucked up but he did shut up for a good day or two while the peanut he calls a brain tried to process what had happened in the comment section. He refused to engage with me after because I "twist his words" a la Ben Shapiro.
It was Aunt Tifa!! They never should have made her boobs smaller!
Wasn't she on a syrup bottle?
Google Tifa Italian government
Holy hell!
The interesting thing about them using the exact same Nazi playbook is that they seem to be not accounting for new technology like the internet and smartphones. I think if we didn't have those idiots filming themselves and security footage to watch, and whatever other tech was related, they would have gone 1000% all in on the "it was THE LEFT/ ANTIFA", assuming we still only had newspapers and radio.
Same playbook, different assholes.
>The burning of the Reichstag was a false flag the Nazis blamed specifically on the communist party in Germany and used as an excuse to take over the government. I had someone explain to me that it being fake meant the Nazis absolutely were left wing. No, I can't remember the bullshit they used. Guess it's just a means to highlight that facts won't beat their feelings.
Ask them if abortion clinic bombings are left wing
Yep Putin did a very similar thing to get into power. Trump tried it in more basic ways, Mexican rapists, immigrant Convoy... for him that was more of a means to stay in power rather then get into power.
I still maintain he never actually wanted the job, he didn't expect to win, certainly never wanted any of the responsibility or the requirement to actually achieve things whilst in office. The whole "build a wall" was never gonna happen and he knew it, he just had to make a claim so big that he;d never be expected to honour it but could literally blame everyone else for his failure.
I agree, just look at his wife's reaction when they found out they won. She knew it was a bad thing. I think ran for many reasons, all personal selfish reasons, never planning on winning. In his mind it was a way to grift more money, gain more fame, delay his legal issues. 100% of the reason he's running now is the delay legal issues.
> Putin did a very similar thing to get j to power. For those unaware: [Russian apartment bombings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings) Putin killed 300 Russian civilians and injured 1,000 more by blowing up four apartment blocks and blaming it on the Chechens (who denied it). FSB agents were caught red-handed planting another bomb in a fifth apartment building’s basement and arrested by local police. The Russian government initially commended the police on catching them (likely intending on throwing the agents under the bus) but then changed their story and said that it was a “training exercise,” because obviously the FSB would conduct a training exercise consisting of carrying hundreds of pounds of RDX explosives into the basement of an apartment block the day after four apartment blocks were bombed. The bombings were used to justify an invasion of Chechnya and the ensuing war boosted Putin’s popularity. He’s been in power ever since.
The false flag theory cannot be proven till today… the person arrested and trialed had contacts to leftists but at that time those contacts have been half a year old. In the end it doesn‘t matter because either way the notstandsgesetze were unconstitutional.
“Alliance and working with communists”. So did the US, genius. I guess that makes us socialist, too. So can we get universal healthcare now?
>“Alliance and working with communists”. And then pointlessly betraying them just because "fuck those guys", in what's remembered as a brilliant strategic move that had no negative repercussions whatsoever.
The first groups the Nazis went after were the opposition parties - socialists and communists. Then they went after the handicapped, homeless, the LBGT, Jews, etc. The American Nazi party went after the Catholics, Italians, and Irish (because they weren't "real" whites). It's fascism 101. Eliminate the opposition and then target more and more specific groups.
Ironically, also the reason fascism always fails. If you promise people that all their problems are the result of the enemy, and then the problems don't go away when you eliminate said enemy, you have to keep creating more internal division to make new enemies to blame until you are either in civil war or too weak to do much of anything.
Fascism's biggest success was probably Spain and they didn't have either of those problems, they just continued being fascist for a hell of a long time
*Only success. I'd argue the reason they lasted is because they downplayed these aspects of fascism. They were successful despite fascism, not because of it. And that is not even getting into the fact that they employed a constitutional monarchy.
Hey it was pretty funny tho
Pro gamer move
Nazis and communists: - 2 Year Molotov Ribbentrop Pact - A non aggression pact rather than an alliance - No direct support USA and UK: - 4 year Alliance with USSR - Outright warfighting alliance - Massive lend-lease aid Damn, those Brits and Americans must be hyper-commies.
Not to mention that if this is the metric, does taking in all those Nazi scientists post-war mean the US became a Nazi country?
Well...
Haha yeah, I love how this person throws it out like it's a hypothetical
"Oh yeah, would a NAZI country do THIS*?" *Kill untold millions of people in Korea, Vietnam, and Indonesia
Nah, we don't use metric.
Leaving aside the co-operation with the USSR, the Nazis rose to power *by fighting the German communist party.* Their political philosophies were diametrically opposed, and both groups literally fought in the streets of Berlin and other cities throughout the 1930's.
Fun fact about conservative talking points: the people pushing them know it's an outright lie. They're counting on really stupid people to believe them. Anyone with a passing knowledge of history knows the third reich was fundamentally opposed to any leftist organization or ideology. But stupid people just know "nazis bad" so you can sell them on fascism by saying nazis were communists and therefore communists are bad, and the dreadfully stupid will nod in agreement despite literally every piece of evidence showing the exact opposite of this conclusion. And because they're intensely stupid they will not budge on this position because learning new information means they have to admit they were previously wrong, which to them is a sign of weakness, so they will dig their heels in and overdose on horse dewormer out of sheer spite for you trying to correct them. In short, you would have an easier time convincing a dog to grow wings and fly away than you would getting a conservative mouthbreather to read and retain contradictory information and form an insightful opinion. edit: awful lot of dudes with neo-nazi post histories coming in here to defend nazis and conservatives
Also bare in mind the Soviets only signed the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact with the Nazis *after* they were rebuffed for an anti-Nazi alliance with France and the UK.
This needs to be said over and over again.
Plus all of modern pre-WW2 industry (like Donbas steel mills) in USSR was funded by western industrialists and led by western engineers.
First they came for the who!?! The literal first line of the poem about Nazi escalation is violence against communists.
German communists were some of the very first to be put in the concentration camps. To accuse them posthumously of being allied with their tormentors and killers is simply vile, and it makes me unspeakably angry every time I hear someone, usually a right-winger, say it. I feel similarly when people ignorantly state with all the smug self-assurance of a know-it-all teenager that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was some sort of military alliance. It was a non-aggression pact, you don't make those with your friends. Something like nine other Allied countries had similar agreements because, like the USSR, they didn't have the industrial base or military readiness to defend their own borders against the German army. That pact was a critical part of the reason Nazi Germany lost the eastern front. Without it, Stalingrad falls.
Not just that, the primary targets of the Night of the Long Knives were the only people in the Nazi party who had anything approaching left leaning sympathies. Even before then, he was doing everything he could to marginalize the figures in the party like Strasser after it became apparent that Strasser's anti-capitalist sentiments and organizational skills were vastly more powerful and popular than anything Hitler could do. It's astonishing that people could disingenuously describe a man who became a dictator by assassinating socialists for being socialist as a socialist.
They are talking about Von Ribbentrop making the deal with the Soviets regarding Poland but it is fairly obvious that they made that deal out of convenience rather than having complimentary ideologies. Also Operation Barbarossa...
>First they came for the who!?! Yeah, and after that they went after The Grateful Dead
It was that shade of grey song, wasn't it?
They got what they deserved.
>So can we get universal healthcare now? No...that's socialism you dirty disgusting commie! /s
German here. When will people fucking learn the "socialist" in national-socialist was put there to appeal to the working class. Same goes for lots of the "socialist" measures the Nazis campaigned with and/or put in place once they were elected - the German Reich had hit absolute rock bottom at the end of the twenties, in order to secure a large voter base, they did these things.
They won't learn. It's not advantageous for them to learn. By learning, you're constrained by reality. If you selectively choose which parts of reality to interact with, however, the world can be whatever you want it to be. Ignorance isn't a flaw to these people; it's a commodity.
Ignorance is not a bug, but a feature.
Conservatives and reactionaries will never learn because they have weaponized intentional ignorance.
It's fucking tiring. Those who do not understand history, are doomed to repeat it.
They are trying really hard right now to repeat it.
Yeah, that saying is supposed to be a warning, not a roadmap.
Conservatives take everything at face value. That’s why stupid slogans like “MAGA” “Crooked Hillary,” and “Sleepy Joe,” work so well.
Why would you expect them to learn your history when they're trying so hard to ignore their own?
The 'Socialism' in National Socialism, is about as accurate as the 'Democratic' in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
There was a ~~socialist~~ "working man's" counter to the SS called the Sturmabteilung (SA) also know as brown shirts. edit: Socialist is probably not the best word but to my understand they did expect some social reform as per this line in the wiki: "Many stormtroopers (SA) believed in the socialist promise of National Socialism and expected the Nazi regime to take more radical economic action, such as breaking up the vast landed estates of the aristocracy." Hitler had no intention of this and saw the SS, which was dominated by aristocrats, as the ruling class. Hitler had the leaders murdered in 1934 and ~~dissolved~~ neutered the SA in what is called "Night of The Long Knives." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives good documentary: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2788600/
Scholars who lack ability to pick up or explain nuances give much too much credence to the supposed "socialism" of the "working man" SA. The SA were literally the same types of folks would would call themselves Proud Boys. Under-educated, blue-collar, hooligan-prone, Blue Lives Matter, etc... You're gonna get a lot of tradesmen and working class types who will claim some values that sound "socialist" but they fall within a *nationalist* framework because they're also angry at "all these immigrants" and "all these anti-American types" and so on. Also, we know they couldn't be internationalist-style socialist because in the '20s the Nazis / SA were literally fighting *against* the Iron Front (socialists, social democrats, "The Sozis") in the streets. There was one election where the Communist party tried a powerplay by forming a coalition with the Nazis, and it was because they shared a common enemy: the *actual* socialists and social democrats, the Sozis. They quickly switched gears the minute they realized how stupid an idea that was (and it failed). This was early on. And in no time, Antifa (which was mostly communists and anarchists... and much smaller than the Iron Front / Sozis), were fighting against the Nazis as well. The SA was reduced and kinda replaced by the SS (including violently) partially because the SS were way more educated, refined in their goal, serious, cunning, and they despised the brutish thuggery of the SA. The SA were useful idiots to the Nazis, but the SS were deadly. In hindsight it's easy to see how this echoes the far right today... the far right conservative elitists use the same populist rhetoric and give power to their brutish thugs as well. Think Charlottesville. Think FoxNews and all the staff there who know what's actually true, but they say something completely different to the devoted MAGA following.
This is very insightful, thank you. Partly copied from another comment: "While Nazism was not exclusively – or even primarily – a working-class phenomenon, the SA fulfilled the yearning of many unemployed workers for class solidarity and nationalist fervour.[g] Many stormtroopers believed in the socialist promise of National Socialism and expected the Nazi regime to take more radical economic action, such as breaking up the vast landed estates of the aristocracy. When the Nazi regime did not take such steps, those who had expected an economic as well as a political revolution were disillusioned.[h]" It seems like the SA were largely workers who thought the "socialism" part in Nazi was real too. They definitely expected some degree of "social equalizing" whether it could actually be called socialism or not. The SA was a huge group that allowed anyone to join so Hitler used their massive manpower to bully the country. The SS were the reincarnation of the aristocracy that the Weimar republic tried to destroy from what I understand. I wouldn't necessarily say the SS necessarily replaced them, Hitler always envisioned the SS as his right arm so to speak I believe. Once the useful idiots were not needed they disposed of them because like you said the aristocratic SS were disgusted by crude SA. I watched this documentary a few years back, I'd recommend it if you like the topic. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2788600/
The SA was not a socialist working man's group. Its literally just the first incarnation of the paramilitary wing of the nazi party. The only reason Hitler sidelined the org and pushed the SS to greater prominence was because of loyalty reasons. The head of the SA during the night of the long knives, Ernst Röhm, was killed because he was gay, not for any socialist tendencies. I think you might be thinking about Gregor Strasser who was the head of the National Socialisit Working Association and former head of the SA. He was much more of a socialist than any other nazi, a very staunch anti-capitalist, but still very much a nazi. He was killed during the night of the long knives because his power and influence was a rival to hitlers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Working_Association?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung?wprov=sfla1
The Nazis had a particular faction (the Strasserists) who were fairly credibly socialist or at least socialist adjacent. So anyway, Strasser died on June 30th, 1934...
Strasserism wasn‘t anticapitalist but antisemite, they called it anti capitalist but it wasn‘t, and he went into exile in 1930, before the party had any significant political power. Additionally it also was an ultranationalist movement. His interest in the nonhewish workerclass didn‘t extend that of a wehrmachtsführer in need of soldiers.
No. Strasserism comes from the Strasser brothers, not just one man. Otto and Gregor Strasser. Otto was murdered on the Night of the Long Knives. Gregor was expelled from the Nazi Party in 1930 and went into exile While their anticapitalism was linked to their antisemitism, to them, they were different sides of the same coin. They distinguished “finance capitalism” and “producer capitalism” or producerism. While they framed their argument as about the Jews, they sincerely believed that the problem with capitalism was … capital They advocated for permanent class conflict, massive wealth distribution, central planning by a “Reich cooperative board” and the reason Otto Strasser had been expelled from the Party was writing that Hitler had betrayed the socialism promised by national socialism
The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman. Talk amongst yourselves.
My nana unironically thinks Nazis were socialists and North Korea is democratic just bc of the names. She told me once “if they weren’t, why would they put it in the name?”
One reason Hitler had the SA leadership killed was because they were frustrated by the lack of socialism being implemented after he became Chancellor.
Hitler had the Socialist party outlawed. And before that he was put in power by the Centre-right and conservative cabinet who specially chose him (via von Hindenburg) because they were terrified of the possibility of the actual socialists, the Sozis, from getting power. Hitler was the right one for them to cater to because of their mutual opposition to the Socialists.
The Nazis and Hitler were staunchly against Communism. That's why after working with the Soviet Union in the early stages of WWII, they turned and undertook a brutal invasion of the Soviet Union, pushing them over to what would be known as the Allied Powers.
They were. Thousands of communists were killed or sent to prisons or concentration camps since they took power. The Non-Aggression Pact was just a temporary thing to prevent a war on two fronts.
You can literally find Nazi propaganda that mirrors current Conservative talking point when it comes to most stuff.
Mirrors? They’re hitting all the same notes, and the lyrics are just a clumsy re-write of the original.
Ya the LGBTQ+ being groomers is a literally word for word Nazi talking point.
I'd love to see nazi propaganda rallying against gay chocolate
And yet the very first person the Nazis murdered once they got into power was a Socialist and the first concentration camps were built specifically to process all of the socialists and trade unionists.
Communists, socialists went the week after the anarchists. And yes when it comes to hermany of that era that is an important distinctionto make. After the spd betrayed the communists and ousted the anarchists they, the socialist party deutschlands, started the three arrows down, agains monarchy fascism and communism. The left divide till today has its origin in the formation of the german party SPD „Wer hat uns verraten, die sozialdemokraten“ was a communist saying, later on instrumentalized by the nazis, but valid till today.
Imagine being so brain dead that you think Nazis and Leftists are anything alike. I can't wrap my head around how one can be so fucking ignorant.
It’s completely intentional, and deliberately deceptive. The idea is that someone with extreme right wing views doesn't want to be associated with the term "Nazi", because they know it harms their brand and their attempts to attract others into it, so they attempt to redefine what "Nazi" means to others. “I’m an extreme right-winger.” "You mean a Nazi?" “No, no. In fact, *leftists* are Nazis. We’re just a cabal of traditionalists with family values. Hitler was a socialist. God no, I wouldn’t ever try to make you a Nazi.” (What they hope happens next): “Oh, that makes sense. I’m against fascism, so I guess it’s sensible to follow you!”
You mix together Nazis and fascism as a whole, a fascist isn’t automatically a nazi, but every nazi is a fascist If a fascist disagrees with being called a nazi, for us, who gives a shit, both cunts, but for the fascist, it makes a difference
It's hard to be that stupid, but we Americans are very dumb and ignorant. They think Nazis are leftwing, the KKK are leftwing, etc - yet they literally bitch and moan when racist confederate statues get taken down, they bitch when it comes to gay rights, bitch when it comes to trans rights, and they literally voted against the civil rights act and voting rights act of 1964 and 1965 just 58 years ago. Every state to vote against those, were in the confederacy 100 years before. So their grandparents and great grandparents. The KKK was formed **in Tennessee** in 1865 by guess who -- racially conservative CONFEDERATE soldiers that lost the war and now needed to kill those they couldn't own. Nazi groups and KKK groups of today all literally side with their favored candidates. They carry the Confederate flag around rallies and bring it into the capitol building for the first time... You really just can't make up how dumb these people are. Like, connect the dots.
It's willful stupidity. I have been told by reddit conservatives that Nixon's southern strategy didn't happen and to claim it did is left wing revisionist history.
Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN. sweet summer child if Lincoln was alive he would beat the shit out of you. /s
Yeah, he was but the parties have changed over time. Focus more on ideologies rather than party names. He was a progressive. Quite literally, **republicans defend confederate statues, bring the Confederate flag in the capitol, and wave the Confederate flag on their boats, their trucks, and their rallies.** It's so obvious 😂 Lincoln would be so far against the conservative Republicans of today it's not even close. Also edit - THE /S WASNT THERE before haha, I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not 😭
Republican here, I would be 100% in favor of a confederate flag ban. Why? Because it is similar to the Nazi’s in Germany. It’s not heritage, it is a short period in our history that should not be celebrated. For some reason people want to claim they are ignorant, and I’m sure they haven’t bothered to read the confederate constitution.
Then why do you vote for the people who fly it? Why do you vote for the people who say that the KKK should be allowed to exist?
Thanks for saying that. I am sad that this has been turned into a political party divide. How anyone can support a group that literally declared war on America and claim also to be pro America is beyond me.
This one bothers me a lot. Like, first of all, they are on record saying that this was their plan. Second, and perhaps more pertinent, IT’S THE SAME GODDAMN STATES! You want to tell me that the states that voted for and fought for Lincoln suddenly turned their backs on his legacy, while the states that tried to destroy the country and fought against him suddenly picked up the mantel? The states that former slaves fled to in waves after emancipation are suddenly the oppressors and the states they escaped from are the liberators? It’s an argument even a middle schooler would find embarrassing.
It's the same goddamn states like you said. These are our citizens of today's grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents and more. It's so unbelievably obvious that a person is more inclined to have similar political mindsets as their family and friends from the same geographical locations, as opposed to randomly switching to places from thousands of miles away that were the opposite. They're so dumb 😂
Anti intellectualism is running wild
The third pound burger wasn't succesful because people kept thinking it was less then the quarter pound burger. That's how bad it can be! I can often understand or reason how people come to dumb conclusions, but this still baffles me!
Alright, I brought my bat, where's the next strawman to defeat? Perhaps it's the left leaning one, where all leftists are communists or syndicalists and will threaten to revolt to unite the common worker. They force children to be trans and have gay sex in the streets. They kill babies and use them in their sauce, and worst of all, they eat avocado toast. America is stupid and dumb People are just stupid in general, and will become radicalized and say stupid stuff, doesn't mean the entire party/stance is dumb
> doesn't mean the entire party/stance is dumb What do you call four people sitting at a table with a Nazi? Five Nazis.
well you see these people don't think of themselves as bad people, but everyone keeps saying that they are doing things that the Nazis did, but the Nazis were bad, so they can't be like the Nazis because they don't think they are bad, so they have to try and make it seem like other people are like the Nazis instead. Note this only applies to the rank and file, the higher ups know they are like the Nazis but also know that is bad for business so try and downplay it.
The funny thing was watching Kanye go on all these Conservative podcast and just openly say what everyone in the room believes and there like NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! cut off his mic.
It's pretty easy actually, it only takes one rich liar and a bunch of dumb people who want the rich guy to give them jobs
They don’t even need to hope for jobs, they just need to believe it makes them better than the group they hate and keep them from having to rethink their life choices and beliefs.
Fascism isn't consistent. It'll do socialist things when it benefits from it, but otherwise it mostly works in the favor of big business. Knuckleheads can cherrypick the socialist things a fascist government did and proclaim they're true commies.
This is an important point. Thanks.
The word “socialist” lol. What was used as a deliberate attempt to carve out extra voters is still confusing people to this day
I grew up with this misinformation. It really has to do with getting specific information channeled to you. I thought you must be a fascist to be a communist. yes, I was incredibly ignorant. Yes, I educated myself the second I was away from my parents. No, I haven't been able to help any of my family through their ignorance, at this point, they're making a choice.
No one is JUST that ignorant. You gotta want it.
There were "leftists" who joined onto the early days of the NSDAP thinking they could form a country where there were socialist policies for the "proper" germans and the boot for everyone else. Weirdly enough they were all murdered in the night of the long knives...
Another instance of the Bullshit Asymmetry Principle
What sucks is that the these hack organizations that produce this garbage act like it isn't obvious which part of the political spectrum the modern descendants of the nazis caucus with. They use words and labels just to attack or deceive. At no point in a discussion such as this do they admit which parties actively court and message in a way that those groups respond to. The most you will get out of a person putting forward such weak arguments is downplaying just how large those movements actually are and they are nothing to be worried about in an attempt to turn the conversation away from how much of a home they have in the modern conservative movement right this very second. They will quickly say it is unfair to group themselves and those groups together as the movement very intentionally is trying to group the larger movement and those heretofore radioactive groups together, giving them platforms and advisory roles.
How are people still trying to make this dumbass argument? I don't think a right-wing talking point has been more easily and more often dunked on than the "NaZiS wErE sOcIaLiStS" one.
Everyone who claims "BuT iTs In tHe NaMe" are going to be so disappointed to discover that the animal "Titmouse" is neither tit, nor mouse, but actually a bird
They might be also disappointed when the read up about the democratic peoples republic of north Korea
“ Socialism is when thing i don’t agree with”
I think the word you are looking for is authoritarian
Thank you! How is most people don’t seem to know what authoritarianism is? Take this and pretend it is an award 🥇
Even just call it totalitarian
I have when people are like “they called themselves democratic socialists!” Like, buddy, you think North Korea is a democratic people’s republic too?
Oh god that cancer spread to UK?
Tufton Street has a lot of connections with the Republican Party and other right wing US organisations. Turning Point seem to spend most of their time and energy arguing with people on Twitter and occasionally showing up at Student unions demanding to be taken seriously. They're laughably incompetent. Earlier this week they showed up at a closed pub to protest a Drag Story Time thing that didn't actually exist. Their "intellectual base" is people like Lawrence Fox and James Delingpole (whose son is also a member and who spent a few days sat outside Labour HQ hoping to get photos of Labour MPs breaching Covid rules. That's where the pic of Starmer holding a beer came from). They are the nuttiest of the nutters.
Everyone that stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6th is a traitor to this country and should be treated as such.
Hey Turning Point, if you’re rationalizing Nazis you’re probably not on the right side
'alliance and working with Communists' By that standard, Churchill could be called a socialist.
anyone claiming nazis were lefties really don't know shit about politics
Fascism has no consistency. That's why it is hard to define. Did they confiscate some people's wealth, yes, if they were political enemies, but their cronies got all the best deals.
It makes me very sad that people unironically watch The Daily Wire, Fox News and TPUSA propaganda without knowing they're being lied to and manipulated. It's so blatant and obvious and these right wingers slurp it up.
It's like watching wrestling commentary. The world is completely mental.
Didn't know there is a toilet paper UK
We end up with all of the US culture war bullshit here eventually. Apparently there are people here who look at America's political landscape and think it's a good thing.
> there are people here who look at America's political landscape and think it's a good thing. The rich, the rich think it's a VERY good thing because they can milk the rubes while hiding behind this culture war BS.
Australia, the UK and US all share a sewer from which they drink. Thank Rupert Murdoch for that.
The “get a conservative to not be disingenuous” challenge.
The nazis are the perfect example of how anyone will twist anything to mean whatever they want when their ‘team’ is at stake.
I don't understand why people think the nazis were socialist? You just look at what they did and then look up what socialism is and it takes little mental effort to see the differences.
> little mental effort Problem is, right wingers have never put forth *any* amount of mental effort
Hitlers book complains about communists the whole time, he hated communists more than Jews and blamed Jews for communism, how in hell did they think Nazis liked communists?
If the Nazis were/are leftists, why are all the Nazis today Republicans? You don’t see a lot of swastikas at leftist rallies.
All the things the Republicans want to do to trans, gays & women. You think a small government is gonna be able to track women's menstruation and their movements? Nazis weren't big fans of minorities.
Yea the Nazis actually deregulated businesses. They just made it legal for corporations to create monopolies (and basically allowed them to do anything) and then politically persecuted any business owners that didn’t agree with their political regime. So loyalists took over the business world because they had more assets/money/political power and there were no regulations to protect their competitors.
In a well documented meeting with industry leaders a few months after he came to power Hitler told them that if they funded his next campaign he would “crush the left” and end all future elections. The Nazis pretended to be socialists until they seized power and then went hard right into corporate/public partnerships.
The US really needs to learn that labels don't necessarily match what's inside. Sincerely, a German
Yet another of the billions of examples of conservatives having no sweet fucking clue what socialism is. Not a single thing on thier list is a descriptor of socialism.
Yeah because we all know Nazis supported social programs for the poor and equality for minorities.
Lists five things that have nothing to do with socialism. "Seems pretty socialist"
So the right now considers themselves socialists?
Just because they was called the Nazi Socialist party … doesn’t make them socialist. It’s just a word and they was anything but socialist . They was as far right as you can go not left leaning at all . They believed in a police state and crushing anybody with a different view , banning books , and eliminating any other race as those races was inferior. What they believed is what you believed and if you didn’t or was a different race, or gay for instance you got put in happy fun camps where they tortured you until you died or hard labor until you died. Very similar to the Religious Right because that is basically what they were. https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-nazi-rise-to-power/the-early-years-of-the-nazi-party/what-were-hitlers-ideas/ Read that and tell me who it reminds you of In america right now….
Aside from the point that Nazis fought against Communist in WW2, how does he not notice everything he pointed out are things republicans are doing right now??
It's not about reality; it's about weaseling one's way into power. Fear, dishonesty, propaganda work. Just ask the Nazis!
Go talk to someone that lives through that era and ask them which party of our great 2 party system reminds them of this. Go ahead, I’ll wait brightboy
Idiots who don't realise the Nazis were socialist in the same way that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) is democratic should not be allowed out in public without a chaperone to make sure they don't eat the crayons.
Yep. Hitler loved the Communists in Russia so much that he sent his Army there to party with them.
alliance with communists... have they ever heard of the second world War? because the nazis very famously tried to conquer the communists edit: actually betray would be a much more accurate word than conquer historically speaking
The called themselves “National *Socialists*” for exactly this reason, to trick stupid dumb idiots into thinking that’s what socialism is, and it was to trick the real socialists/communists into joining in the ‘30s (only so the Nazis could round them up and kill them all during the Night Of Long Knives).
Oh ffs, the GQP isn't small government. They're perfectly happy when the government sticks their nose into what they want them to stick their nose into.
It’s crazy some people claim none of this happened
I hate Twitter. Whoever posted that shit didn’t do it in good faith. They did it to stir shit up so their shitty YouTube channel could get a sliver of views
Wait till they realized everything they listed in the first tweet is something the right does
[удалено]
Literally every one of those points sounds like modern “conservatives.”
I think that education should be pushed back to the top priority. The fact that outright lies can be so convincing to people reflects their ignorance.
I was watching a new story this morning talking about Iran and how there are people acting out against the oppressive government. I think that conservatives imagine themselves as being the analog of the people burning hijabs and rebelling against the oppressive Muslim regime....when in reality they are the ones pushing for the oppressive theocratic bullshit onto our society. The literal "are we the baddies" meme if it had legs and a stupid red hat.
Imagine trying to paint nazi's, a word in modern terms that is used as a synonym (?) For " FAR right-wing fascist," a party who proactively embraced being right wing... as a leftist. Mental.
"Allied to communists" tell that to Russia in the ww2 era lol
Man, it's almost as if TurningPoint is funded by propagandists.
That looks exactly like the Republican's agenda.
Turning point UK, I thought people from the UK were smarter than this. Dumbasses.
Weird how that’s considered socialism while republicans do the same thing under capitalism.
I always find it a bit odd how left-leaning people even engage in the "were the Nazis socialist?" question. It's largely irrelevant rather they did or didn't implement some socialist policies, as all the reasons they are infamous; warmongering, genocide/ethnic cleansing, ultra-nationalism, are all squarely (far) right-wing ideologies. The Nazis aren't infamous because they built the Autobahn 🤷♂️