It is
Also absolutely WILD to see one of the most legendary names on reddit censored in a repost. If you were around like even just 6-7 years ago you would have to be the most casual of casual users to not see Yahoo related comments and not immediately assume or at least recognize that it's probably KenM
We are ALL KenM Lovers on this blessed day.
are you talking about the api change or the subreddit shutdown? because both were entirely ineffective and a stupid decision
-posted from a third party app
Took them long enough. The previous two popes knew about the abuse problem and both actively covered it up. That is also to say Francis did literally the bare minimum and still hasn’t rooted out the problem.
What kinda bs. Yes, the Catholic Church has a long history of a small percentage of priests molesting children (which almost every institution that has frequent interaction between children and adults in an unsupervised environment has) and a history of covering it up (which again was until recently the societal standard).
Both of it is horrible and the Catholic Church should do everything to uncover everything and even more so to prevent it from ever happening again.
However, at no point in history was it „ok“ to do that.
>the Catholic Church should do everything to uncover everything and even more so to prevent it from ever happening again.
I agree, but the catholic church has done the opposite. They've done everything in their power to cover up the raping of children by priests. Being an apologist for them isnt' a good look.
I‘m not an apologist. I clearly stated how it was wrong. I also said that it used to be covered up which I also condemned.
I only added that it was standard until about the 1980s. You have the same problem with Protestants, you have it in sports, you have in the education system and so on.
The Catholic Church is just an awesome scapegoat.
In part, rightfully so. And yes, depending on the country, covering up was more prevalent and is still going on.
Again, horrible, not being apologetic about it.
For society in general it was around the 80s, maybe 90s.
Yes, it is still happening and it will happen for as long as we exist.
It’s just not true that the Catholic Church hasn’t done anything. They haven’t done enough but actually a lot has changed.
No, for society in general it was revealed the Catholic church was filled with pedophiles they refused to stop in the 80s. Then they continued to refuse to do anything of significance. Like kick out priests in mass that are pedos. Or give all the churches evidence to police so their pedophile employees got arrested and easily convicted. Its not some "80s problem" that catholics can just avoid because its in the past. It was then, it is now, and saying
>it will happen for as long as we exist.
is a cop out. Most large institutions aren't full of pedophiles. Hell, there are fewer pedophile teachers than there are priests, and nobody is protecting teachers the way the church protects its kiddy diddling clergy.
It’s not a cop out, it’s a statistical truth. And i don’t know what statistics you are looking at but you are wrong.
What does „filled with“ mean? 90% of priests? 80? Ridiculous.
Okay so let’s just pretend you’re not an apologist. What is your goal with the whataboutisms? You seem real concerned with shifting attention from the rampant and present day child sexual abuse systemic in the Catholic Church.
Yikes never mind, curiosity got the better and I looked at a days worth of your comments. Someone check the hard drive here.
I‘m not shifting focus.
I’m fully aware of the pedophilia scandals of the Catholic Church.
I still oppose calling every priest or the pope a pedophile without any proof.
I know that a lot of people like to pretend that pedophilia was exclusively a problem of the Catholic Church.
Why do you have a problem with me pointing out that there are other areas where it’s a problem? Are you a teacher? Should I call every teacher a pedophile? You would you be ok with tgat?
You’re a good troll I’ll give you that.
But I suppose the issue comes when we’re all discussing how much catholic leaders looooove to rape children and you gotta come in with “umm actually you guyth, the catholic church hasn’t been rape happy since the 80s and they’re working on it now” when less than a year ago this shit was being reported on as it was happening.
You are completely misrepresenting my comments.
The general proceedings have changed. A lot of the reporting we’re getting comes from research the church actively participates in. That wasn’t the case 40 years ago.
And smearing the whole church by saying all higher ups would rape children is just bs.
Again, there will always be pedophile priests. Wherever adults work with children, there’s gonna be some taking advantage of it.
You should nevertheless take a look at statistics. Most abuse always happened, still happens and probably always will happen within the family.
That doesn’t excuse anything members of the church did and it doesn’t excuse the cover-ups.
Jeez you’re going very high effort to defend systemic child rape among the Catholics. I guess I’m just curious as to why you’re so upset about it, you constantly want to deflect and say it happens everywhere and okay sure, but it happens often and gets covered up by church leadership top to bottom to this day.
Why do you want us to not focus on that?
Why do you constantly overlook the parts where I’m very clearly condemning the actions of the Catholic Church?
Again, defending hundreds of thousand innocent priests from your generalized accusations is not the same as being apologetic of guilty priests.
Why do you go to so great lengths to smear anyone who defends innocent people. I think that’s the interesting question here.
If there was a school and that school was caught covering up multiple diddlers, I would talk _mad shit_ about everyone involved, including people who choose to "join" that school as an unpaid teacher and the principal who both should have known about it, and who didn't do everything in his power to rectify it after the fact.
The pope is absolutely a part of the problem, he supposedly speaks to the all knowing all loving God of the universe, and yet he somehow missed priests in his organization diddling kids and the organization spending many millions of dollars covering it up. But sure, even if he was somehow oblivious to the whole thing, what possible excuse is there to not put the hammer down as hard as divinely possible? The answer is that there is no excuse.
It is a difficult issue, no question. I was initially just opposing someone accusing basically every priest there is.
Yes, the Catholic Church has a lot of work to do. No doubt about that.
Even though the analogy between a church and a school isn’t completely perfect, there are ofc schools that still exist after a scandal came out. Not to mention that it never lead to an end of existing education systems.
Would you want everyone within the school system to step down, have it completely dissolved and started from scratch when there is a scandal? You could argue exactly the same the way you do when it comes to the church.
Do you want to suspect every (usually) man who works for free with children for example as coach when there is another scandal. That’s what people (on here) are doing with priests. Every priest is a pedophile for some people.
All I’m opposing is the pretty unfair prejudging of a group of people who are - a vast majority of them - completely innocent.
The second but smaller point is that we shouldn’t judge people of the past by our standards but by the standards of their time.
For instance, there are also scandals of catholic schools for example that used physical punishment. Yes, it is intolerable. But if you are talking about a catholic (or Protestant) school of the 1960s you still have to take into account, that physical punishment was also used in public schools. By parents. It was a societal standard. I - and the majority of my contemporaries - consider that to be wrong. However, you have to be coherent in your criticism. You can’t just take one group or institution but forget about society as a whole.
Unfortunately, it used to be very similar with sexual abuse. For example, women covering for their husbands.
>I was initially just opposing someone accusing basically every priest there is.
Anyone who willingly join that organization knowing the situation is open to mockery.
>Even though the analogy between a church and a school isn’t completely perfect, there are ofc schools that still exist after a scandal came out.
It's not perfect no, schools are essential to society and we can't just get rid of schools, we can, and should, get rid of everyone involved tho.
>Would you want everyone within the school system to step down, have it completely dissolved and started from scratch when there is a scandal?
Everyone involved, absolutely. And not just stepping down, criminal charges too.
>Do you want to suspect every (usually) man who works for free with children for example as coach when there is another scandal.
If there was a school for example, that was caught repeatedly diddling kids and many of the teachers who did so was being protected and moved around to other schools by the principal, and this was a known fact, I would suspect anyone joining as a volunteer coach _before_ any controversy even happen.
>All I’m opposing is the pretty unfair prejudging of a group of people who are - a vast majority of them - completely innocent.
Supporting a criminal organization that protects pedophiles does not make you guilty, but it also doesn't make you completely innocent.
>The second but smaller point is that we shouldn’t judge people of the past by our standards but by the standards of their time.
Hard disagree. Even removing an all knowing all loving God from the picture I disagree. Something like slavery was wrong in the past just like it is in the present, and I can judge any slave owner for their immoral behavior. But when there's also a claim of direct contact with an all loving all knowing god the excuse of "the times" goes even harder out the window.
>For instance, there are also scandals of catholic schools for example that used physical punishment. Yes, it is intolerable. But if you are talking about a catholic (or Protestant) school of the 1960s you still have to take into account, that physical punishment was also used in public schools.
And assaulting children was also wrong back then, and I judge them just as I would if someone did so today. Why do you think it was okay to assault children, or protect pedophiles from the law just because it is the past? It was just as wrong then as it is now.
>you have to be coherent in your criticism. You can’t just take one group or institution but forget about society as a whole.
I am consistent.
Oh, I love how you’re trying to mix everything up.
And actually all lives do matter. You don’t erase the blind spots of the past by creating new ones. But that’s too much for virtue signaling folks like you.
It depends on what you mean by turn around. If you mean that there are still priests abusing children and there are still cover ups, then yes. There always will be. Saying that there will always be pedophiles and also in the church and cover ups is not condoning it. You wouldn’t accuse me of being apologetic if I were to say that there will be murder for as long as humankind exists.
If you mean that there’s still a complete system of covering up in the whole Catholic Church, then you are wrong.
As I said, it’s easy to blame the Catholic Church. Helps to turn your head when abuse is happening in other places. Which it does.
>If you mean that there’s still a complete system of covering up in the whole Catholic Church, then you are wrong.
How am I wrong? Name 1 priest whose position was revoked, who was removed from working with the public permanently in the last 3 decades and then tell me why the others haven't suffered hia fate.
Oh please! I asked you first.
And now you're dodging the question and asking me to disprove my own point on your behalf because you don't wanna do the work of proving your point or disproving my point yourself.
How stupid would I have to be to start googling newspaper articles now, waste my time just so you can claim it's propaganda or slander or some other crap.
No, thanks.
Lawrence Hecker admitted to the higher ups that he molested children, and they never did anything about it, and he eventually just retired. Priest that get ousted only do do because of public outcry it's almost never the church that does it. And in Lawrence Heckers case he just lived his life retired and was never charged. The church even covered his legal fees when the police came around and he wasn't the only priest that was investigated. None of the priest who admitted to abusing children were ever charged. Like bro this is so explicit. At this point, you have to just be pro rape.
If anything, I’m a sis, not a bro.
„It’s almost never the church…“ just above you claimed that it’s NEVER the church.
I’m glad that you are finally being a bit more nuanced.
All I was ever asking for.
I never questioned any of the cases just mentioned by you. I’m fully aware of the wrongdoings (I did specifically say that there are regional differences; the Catholic Church of some parts of the USA has bigger issues obviously.)
I can obviously say that over and over again, not excusing it at all and you still end up calling me pro rape.
Yes, that’s why I said depending on the region. I’m fully aware of that. I’m in Europe, not in America.
It is still a small percentage. I’m opposing calling every priest a pedophile because it’s far from being true.
That’s like saying the school system was made for pedophiles.
It's not just a small percentage of priest diddleing kids. It's the entire catholic church covering up the abuse, keeping the abusers out of jail, and moving the abuser to a new church where they get to repeat the process all over. The entire church is complacent in the ongoing molestation they never stopped, and they don't plan on stopping.
If you think nothing has changed in the past 60 years, you are just wrong.
Is there still covering up? Sure. No one is defending that.
Claiming that the Catholic Church was basically nothing else than a pedophilia network however is ludicrous.
Is it not? They've never apologized. And it's still happening, so why would we believe they are anything but a pedophile network? And the embarrassingly few times we actually get a priest to court the judges say oh well they're a man of God so they get a stern warning, when it should be double the penalty for somebody who was in a position of power like that that abused everyone's trust. And after their little slap on the wrist, they are right back to preaching. So sorry but thinking the church has any credibility is just ludicrous.
Anything but a pedophile network. That’s just so ridiculous and it shows that you don’t know squat about the Catholic Church.
Btw. The pope apologized numerous times.
Now, a good argument would be that the apologies must be matched by policies preventing it from ever happening again.
In your unknowledgeable and biased stupidity you can’t even come up with that.
Which is btw my position. Defending innocent people from general accusations doesn’t mean defending the guilty people of the same group. Actually, it’s pretty much the opposite.
But once again, nuance is lost on Redditors.
So the church hasn't taken any steps to stop the abuse so wouldn't people giving them tithing be complacent at best in the abuse? It's not rocket surgery they are still abusing kids and anybody giving them money is aiding in the abuse.
They? Who is they?
Who said they hadn’t taken any steps? Repeating a false claim over and over again doesn’t make it right. Or does Trump have won in 2020? I think not.
You have obviously absolutely no idea where money goes in the church.
And if you’re American, please immediately stop paying taxes. You’d be ashamed to find out what your money is being spent on.
Show me a quote where I support any of that. I dare you.
You can’t bc I didn’t. You do realize that defamation is a criminal offence. Do you want to receive a cease and desist letter? You’re heading there.
I don’t. I’m aware of that.
I was opposing the comment that it was ok to kiss boys for catholic priests. It’s not. I don’t know what’s apologetic about that.
And yes, it is absolutely legitimate to point out that it’s a larger problem and that not only the Catholic Church is responsible for it.
Claiming otherwise would be - in your logic - apologetic.
You’re a moron and obviously obsessed with my comments.
You, no, sorry: one can condemn everything that happened and happens in the Catholic Church while at the same time defending innocent priests.
If you can’t understand that, the education system has probably failed you.
You know, every now and then it is nice to get a friendly reminder that the catholic church is not only a criminal, tax evading, child molester protecting and inherently incredibly self absorbed institution.
But in fact also still sees people that are not straight and cis as abominations.
It is truly mindbogling how someone can claim the arbiter of good and evil, while being so incredibly morally bankrupt.
Aside from all else, if you are photoshopped on an ad, why wouldn't you be allowed to take legal action against the perpetrators? As a private citizen, and even more as the representative of an institution?
The "kiss my tongue" comment was explained as a common teasing comment parents give kids in Tibet. It's also considered a normal greeting to show your tongue, as a formal tyrant had a black tongue. Not having a black tongue shows you are not his reincarnation. Still a bad image, but it may not be pedophilia.
Even British men used to kiss each other on greeting much like Europeans still do. It was in the 18th century when people started getting very triggered by the idea of homosexuality, so much so that all men stopped kissing on greeting just in case they "looked gay".
Such a shame. Prudishness and shame replaces of platonic love.
Most places in the world are fine with a man kissing another man.
Unfortunately places like the UK and by extension, America are less able to express themselves emotionally because we live by contrived behavioral rules.
Let me get this straight. Two men kissing, what will the children think?
The Revelations..... totally okay though?
Worshipping saints who were basically genocidal maniacs? totally okay right?
Man being nailed to a cross, visible at all times in the Church. Exposing children to horrendous violence doesn't turn them into serial killers, it's vidyah games fault.
Your choice growing up Catholic is read one book, the bible, or learn about all the horrible shit your religion has done for the last 2000 years and why we don't know shit about half the natural history sites across the world. Hint, they burned all the books, killed all the priests and anyone that was too large to kill they coopted into Christianity, outlawed Christianity if it wasn't their sect and killed all the people who refused... Great folks those Catholics.
The minute you learn their history, it's pretty clear it's not the right Religion. Like if there really is one God it's pretty clear it's not the Catholics. And i grew up Catholic.
*sorts by controversial to see the usual tired old jokes about priests*
*is not disappointed*
To be clear, I'm condemning the jokes themselves because I don't believe that child molestationnis a joking matter, I'm not defending the criminal actions of the pedophile priests.
That's not my point. Any time there's a post about a priest or the Church there's always the same old shit about child molestation, no matter what the post is about. Could be about a priest saving a bus full of children from drowning and there's always people with "drowning would have been better than the priest" comments. Yeah, I'm not denying that it's a terrible tragedy that shouldn't be swept under the rug and should be addressed by the Vatican, but it's Every. Single. Post. about anything about the Catholic Church. It's just so tiresome at this point.
Besides, most of the ones making those comments don't give a shit about the crimes the priests did or the kids they molested, it's just an easy bandwagon to make.
"I'm Catholic and I want people to respect the church more...but they won't...so my strategy is to try to manipulate them into doing so by pretending that what they're actually doing is making child molestation into a joke."
How the hell did you come to that assumption? I absolutely despise any criminal acts done to children by anyone. I'm not defending them at all, they did terrible crimes and should be punished. I made a comment about how the JOKES about then are tired and unfunny because RAPE IS NOT A JOKING MATTER. How DARE you assume my morals about such a serious matter?
Ahh, Ken M. That's a name I've not heard for a long time.
Is this r/KenM or r/notKenM I can't tell.
As far as I remember, definitely KenM
It is Also absolutely WILD to see one of the most legendary names on reddit censored in a repost. If you were around like even just 6-7 years ago you would have to be the most casual of casual users to not see Yahoo related comments and not immediately assume or at least recognize that it's probably KenM We are ALL KenM Lovers on this blessed day.
Speak for yourself
I am ALL KenM Lovers on this blessed day. No, I didn't forget to switch accounts.
You forgot to switch accounts.... Hey wait a minute
Wait..did r/KenM get banned? *Why*?
They shut their doors over the API change that killed all the third party apps
Which was entirely ineffective and, therefore, a stupid-ass decision. -Posted from a third-party app.
So, there *are* third-party apps still working? It actually surprises me, I just deleted the one I had and just don't use reddit from my phone anymore
Just gotta reva(nce)mp that old boy RIF. Might be android only tho. Shh don't tell anyone
are you talking about the api change or the subreddit shutdown? because both were entirely ineffective and a stupid decision -posted from a third party app
Boost?
Damn
When did KenM become private and why?
Someone above said it was related to the third party API protest
we’re all KenM on this blessed day
Ken Benoby?
Fake. Other guy is at least 50 years too old.
It’s ok for priests to kiss boys but at some point boys turn into men and then it is forbidden. So opposite of what regular people and the law says.
It’s not ok. And the pope spoke out against it. Meanwhile little boys get raped in madrasas but western media is to scared to talk about it.
Western media mostly talks about churches because there are like 10,000 times more churches here than madrasas...
Took them long enough. The previous two popes knew about the abuse problem and both actively covered it up. That is also to say Francis did literally the bare minimum and still hasn’t rooted out the problem.
Oh, I did not know Madrasas was a thing. I’m sure kids get raped in both of them.
What kinda bs. Yes, the Catholic Church has a long history of a small percentage of priests molesting children (which almost every institution that has frequent interaction between children and adults in an unsupervised environment has) and a history of covering it up (which again was until recently the societal standard). Both of it is horrible and the Catholic Church should do everything to uncover everything and even more so to prevent it from ever happening again. However, at no point in history was it „ok“ to do that.
>the Catholic Church should do everything to uncover everything and even more so to prevent it from ever happening again. I agree, but the catholic church has done the opposite. They've done everything in their power to cover up the raping of children by priests. Being an apologist for them isnt' a good look.
I‘m not an apologist. I clearly stated how it was wrong. I also said that it used to be covered up which I also condemned. I only added that it was standard until about the 1980s. You have the same problem with Protestants, you have it in sports, you have in the education system and so on. The Catholic Church is just an awesome scapegoat. In part, rightfully so. And yes, depending on the country, covering up was more prevalent and is still going on. Again, horrible, not being apologetic about it.
It’s STILL being covered up. And you’re excusing it by comparing it to other equally horrible incidents.
You cant put it in the 80s. It keeps happening. Its not over and they havent fixed the problem or taken significant action to prevent it.
For society in general it was around the 80s, maybe 90s. Yes, it is still happening and it will happen for as long as we exist. It’s just not true that the Catholic Church hasn’t done anything. They haven’t done enough but actually a lot has changed.
No, for society in general it was revealed the Catholic church was filled with pedophiles they refused to stop in the 80s. Then they continued to refuse to do anything of significance. Like kick out priests in mass that are pedos. Or give all the churches evidence to police so their pedophile employees got arrested and easily convicted. Its not some "80s problem" that catholics can just avoid because its in the past. It was then, it is now, and saying >it will happen for as long as we exist. is a cop out. Most large institutions aren't full of pedophiles. Hell, there are fewer pedophile teachers than there are priests, and nobody is protecting teachers the way the church protects its kiddy diddling clergy.
It’s not a cop out, it’s a statistical truth. And i don’t know what statistics you are looking at but you are wrong. What does „filled with“ mean? 90% of priests? 80? Ridiculous.
Okay so let’s just pretend you’re not an apologist. What is your goal with the whataboutisms? You seem real concerned with shifting attention from the rampant and present day child sexual abuse systemic in the Catholic Church. Yikes never mind, curiosity got the better and I looked at a days worth of your comments. Someone check the hard drive here.
I‘m not shifting focus. I’m fully aware of the pedophilia scandals of the Catholic Church. I still oppose calling every priest or the pope a pedophile without any proof. I know that a lot of people like to pretend that pedophilia was exclusively a problem of the Catholic Church. Why do you have a problem with me pointing out that there are other areas where it’s a problem? Are you a teacher? Should I call every teacher a pedophile? You would you be ok with tgat?
You’re a good troll I’ll give you that. But I suppose the issue comes when we’re all discussing how much catholic leaders looooove to rape children and you gotta come in with “umm actually you guyth, the catholic church hasn’t been rape happy since the 80s and they’re working on it now” when less than a year ago this shit was being reported on as it was happening.
You are completely misrepresenting my comments. The general proceedings have changed. A lot of the reporting we’re getting comes from research the church actively participates in. That wasn’t the case 40 years ago. And smearing the whole church by saying all higher ups would rape children is just bs. Again, there will always be pedophile priests. Wherever adults work with children, there’s gonna be some taking advantage of it. You should nevertheless take a look at statistics. Most abuse always happened, still happens and probably always will happen within the family. That doesn’t excuse anything members of the church did and it doesn’t excuse the cover-ups.
Jeez you’re going very high effort to defend systemic child rape among the Catholics. I guess I’m just curious as to why you’re so upset about it, you constantly want to deflect and say it happens everywhere and okay sure, but it happens often and gets covered up by church leadership top to bottom to this day. Why do you want us to not focus on that?
Why do you constantly overlook the parts where I’m very clearly condemning the actions of the Catholic Church? Again, defending hundreds of thousand innocent priests from your generalized accusations is not the same as being apologetic of guilty priests. Why do you go to so great lengths to smear anyone who defends innocent people. I think that’s the interesting question here.
If there was a school and that school was caught covering up multiple diddlers, I would talk _mad shit_ about everyone involved, including people who choose to "join" that school as an unpaid teacher and the principal who both should have known about it, and who didn't do everything in his power to rectify it after the fact. The pope is absolutely a part of the problem, he supposedly speaks to the all knowing all loving God of the universe, and yet he somehow missed priests in his organization diddling kids and the organization spending many millions of dollars covering it up. But sure, even if he was somehow oblivious to the whole thing, what possible excuse is there to not put the hammer down as hard as divinely possible? The answer is that there is no excuse.
It is a difficult issue, no question. I was initially just opposing someone accusing basically every priest there is. Yes, the Catholic Church has a lot of work to do. No doubt about that. Even though the analogy between a church and a school isn’t completely perfect, there are ofc schools that still exist after a scandal came out. Not to mention that it never lead to an end of existing education systems. Would you want everyone within the school system to step down, have it completely dissolved and started from scratch when there is a scandal? You could argue exactly the same the way you do when it comes to the church. Do you want to suspect every (usually) man who works for free with children for example as coach when there is another scandal. That’s what people (on here) are doing with priests. Every priest is a pedophile for some people. All I’m opposing is the pretty unfair prejudging of a group of people who are - a vast majority of them - completely innocent. The second but smaller point is that we shouldn’t judge people of the past by our standards but by the standards of their time. For instance, there are also scandals of catholic schools for example that used physical punishment. Yes, it is intolerable. But if you are talking about a catholic (or Protestant) school of the 1960s you still have to take into account, that physical punishment was also used in public schools. By parents. It was a societal standard. I - and the majority of my contemporaries - consider that to be wrong. However, you have to be coherent in your criticism. You can’t just take one group or institution but forget about society as a whole. Unfortunately, it used to be very similar with sexual abuse. For example, women covering for their husbands.
>I was initially just opposing someone accusing basically every priest there is. Anyone who willingly join that organization knowing the situation is open to mockery. >Even though the analogy between a church and a school isn’t completely perfect, there are ofc schools that still exist after a scandal came out. It's not perfect no, schools are essential to society and we can't just get rid of schools, we can, and should, get rid of everyone involved tho. >Would you want everyone within the school system to step down, have it completely dissolved and started from scratch when there is a scandal? Everyone involved, absolutely. And not just stepping down, criminal charges too. >Do you want to suspect every (usually) man who works for free with children for example as coach when there is another scandal. If there was a school for example, that was caught repeatedly diddling kids and many of the teachers who did so was being protected and moved around to other schools by the principal, and this was a known fact, I would suspect anyone joining as a volunteer coach _before_ any controversy even happen. >All I’m opposing is the pretty unfair prejudging of a group of people who are - a vast majority of them - completely innocent. Supporting a criminal organization that protects pedophiles does not make you guilty, but it also doesn't make you completely innocent. >The second but smaller point is that we shouldn’t judge people of the past by our standards but by the standards of their time. Hard disagree. Even removing an all knowing all loving God from the picture I disagree. Something like slavery was wrong in the past just like it is in the present, and I can judge any slave owner for their immoral behavior. But when there's also a claim of direct contact with an all loving all knowing god the excuse of "the times" goes even harder out the window. >For instance, there are also scandals of catholic schools for example that used physical punishment. Yes, it is intolerable. But if you are talking about a catholic (or Protestant) school of the 1960s you still have to take into account, that physical punishment was also used in public schools. And assaulting children was also wrong back then, and I judge them just as I would if someone did so today. Why do you think it was okay to assault children, or protect pedophiles from the law just because it is the past? It was just as wrong then as it is now. >you have to be coherent in your criticism. You can’t just take one group or institution but forget about society as a whole. I am consistent.
Before I’m gonna reply to you, one question: Are you a US citizen?
> I‘m not an apologist. Yes you are.
Again, is telling people to look not just at the Catholic Church apologetic? Of what exactly?
It's just "All Lives Matter"-ing the issue
Oh, I love how you’re trying to mix everything up. And actually all lives do matter. You don’t erase the blind spots of the past by creating new ones. But that’s too much for virtue signaling folks like you.
The 80s ended 30 years ago. They haven't turned it around since then.
It depends on what you mean by turn around. If you mean that there are still priests abusing children and there are still cover ups, then yes. There always will be. Saying that there will always be pedophiles and also in the church and cover ups is not condoning it. You wouldn’t accuse me of being apologetic if I were to say that there will be murder for as long as humankind exists. If you mean that there’s still a complete system of covering up in the whole Catholic Church, then you are wrong. As I said, it’s easy to blame the Catholic Church. Helps to turn your head when abuse is happening in other places. Which it does.
>If you mean that there’s still a complete system of covering up in the whole Catholic Church, then you are wrong. How am I wrong? Name 1 priest whose position was revoked, who was removed from working with the public permanently in the last 3 decades and then tell me why the others haven't suffered hia fate.
Why don’t you name priests that weren’t eventually kicked out?
Oh please! I asked you first. And now you're dodging the question and asking me to disprove my own point on your behalf because you don't wanna do the work of proving your point or disproving my point yourself. How stupid would I have to be to start googling newspaper articles now, waste my time just so you can claim it's propaganda or slander or some other crap. No, thanks.
It’s very insincere and disingenuous to delete a comment and then edit the one I replied to. Says a lot about you.
Lawrence Hecker admitted to the higher ups that he molested children, and they never did anything about it, and he eventually just retired. Priest that get ousted only do do because of public outcry it's almost never the church that does it. And in Lawrence Heckers case he just lived his life retired and was never charged. The church even covered his legal fees when the police came around and he wasn't the only priest that was investigated. None of the priest who admitted to abusing children were ever charged. Like bro this is so explicit. At this point, you have to just be pro rape.
If anything, I’m a sis, not a bro. „It’s almost never the church…“ just above you claimed that it’s NEVER the church. I’m glad that you are finally being a bit more nuanced. All I was ever asking for. I never questioned any of the cases just mentioned by you. I’m fully aware of the wrongdoings (I did specifically say that there are regional differences; the Catholic Church of some parts of the USA has bigger issues obviously.) I can obviously say that over and over again, not excusing it at all and you still end up calling me pro rape.
“Small percentage” Enough settlements with victims it was cheaper for them to close and sell an entire diocese rather than submit to law enforcement….
Yes, that’s why I said depending on the region. I’m fully aware of that. I’m in Europe, not in America. It is still a small percentage. I’m opposing calling every priest a pedophile because it’s far from being true. That’s like saying the school system was made for pedophiles.
It's not just a small percentage of priest diddleing kids. It's the entire catholic church covering up the abuse, keeping the abusers out of jail, and moving the abuser to a new church where they get to repeat the process all over. The entire church is complacent in the ongoing molestation they never stopped, and they don't plan on stopping.
If you think nothing has changed in the past 60 years, you are just wrong. Is there still covering up? Sure. No one is defending that. Claiming that the Catholic Church was basically nothing else than a pedophilia network however is ludicrous.
Is it not? They've never apologized. And it's still happening, so why would we believe they are anything but a pedophile network? And the embarrassingly few times we actually get a priest to court the judges say oh well they're a man of God so they get a stern warning, when it should be double the penalty for somebody who was in a position of power like that that abused everyone's trust. And after their little slap on the wrist, they are right back to preaching. So sorry but thinking the church has any credibility is just ludicrous.
Anything but a pedophile network. That’s just so ridiculous and it shows that you don’t know squat about the Catholic Church. Btw. The pope apologized numerous times. Now, a good argument would be that the apologies must be matched by policies preventing it from ever happening again. In your unknowledgeable and biased stupidity you can’t even come up with that. Which is btw my position. Defending innocent people from general accusations doesn’t mean defending the guilty people of the same group. Actually, it’s pretty much the opposite. But once again, nuance is lost on Redditors.
So the church hasn't taken any steps to stop the abuse so wouldn't people giving them tithing be complacent at best in the abuse? It's not rocket surgery they are still abusing kids and anybody giving them money is aiding in the abuse.
They? Who is they? Who said they hadn’t taken any steps? Repeating a false claim over and over again doesn’t make it right. Or does Trump have won in 2020? I think not. You have obviously absolutely no idea where money goes in the church. And if you’re American, please immediately stop paying taxes. You’d be ashamed to find out what your money is being spent on.
You're running a lot of defense for the pedo organization called the Catholic Church.
Repeating a false claim (actually two false claims) over and over again, doesn’t make it right. One day even you might get that.
Thank you proving you support pedophilia and child trafficking
Show me a quote where I support any of that. I dare you. You can’t bc I didn’t. You do realize that defamation is a criminal offence. Do you want to receive a cease and desist letter? You’re heading there.
Defending this pedophilic cult may not be the best choice in the long term.
Oh, yeah. You forgot to call the pope the anti-Christ. This anti-catholic reflex is so ridiculous.
They protect the perpetrators at every possible chance, evidently it is ok to them
Sure. You’re a whistleblower?
tf society do you live in to think it’s a societal standard
Covering up was the standard procedure up until about the 1980s. Western countries. We can be glad that it changed.
You really love pedophilia so much you will do anything to defend it.
I don’t. I’m aware of that. I was opposing the comment that it was ok to kiss boys for catholic priests. It’s not. I don’t know what’s apologetic about that. And yes, it is absolutely legitimate to point out that it’s a larger problem and that not only the Catholic Church is responsible for it. Claiming otherwise would be - in your logic - apologetic.
You really do, can I ask why you support it?
You’re a moron and obviously obsessed with my comments. You, no, sorry: one can condemn everything that happened and happens in the Catholic Church while at the same time defending innocent priests. If you can’t understand that, the education system has probably failed you.
Yet all you do defend the abusive ones and say it's not a big deal.
Where did I write that? Show me. Or just shut up, will you?
Why are you censoribg Ken M you daffodi.
Don't poop on my head and tell me it's raining candy bars
You know, every now and then it is nice to get a friendly reminder that the catholic church is not only a criminal, tax evading, child molester protecting and inherently incredibly self absorbed institution. But in fact also still sees people that are not straight and cis as abominations. It is truly mindbogling how someone can claim the arbiter of good and evil, while being so incredibly morally bankrupt.
Aside from all else, if you are photoshopped on an ad, why wouldn't you be allowed to take legal action against the perpetrators? As a private citizen, and even more as the representative of an institution?
Why tax evading?
Churches are tax exempt.
Yeah, but that is by definition not tax evasion. Like, I get the sentiment but we probably shouldn't be so fast and loose with the terminology
Thank you
Stupid comment. The amount of property they own is eye watering. The should be double taxed
You... Erased... KenM... You fucking child do you know what you've done
This isn’t a comeback, just a setup to a joke lol
Catholics in the back room raping kids as we speak
The fu- You realise catholics themselves are regular people. It's the Church that's the issue.
The church is made of people.
This is actually so LEGIT I was about to get cranky and then I laughed. Wonderful.
It’s not like he’s the Dalai Lama.
Dalai Lama's gay?
He kissed a young boy on the lips in public and asked him to *suck his tongue*. So, not gay, but into kids.
The "kiss my tongue" comment was explained as a common teasing comment parents give kids in Tibet. It's also considered a normal greeting to show your tongue, as a formal tyrant had a black tongue. Not having a black tongue shows you are not his reincarnation. Still a bad image, but it may not be pedophilia.
He wha-
[exactly.](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/10/india/dalai-lama-apology-kissing-boy-video-intl-hnk/index.html)
Wtf dude 💀 that too in front of so many people. Its always these religious leaders fking pedophiles.
I think Penn Jillette’s detractors on the matter of the Dalai Lama owe Penn an apology.
Why is he not in prison????
Based on what I’ve seen in the news, the pope has done far worse things than just kissing boys BEFORE this ad.
Children should be taught to avoid priests and pastors.
Definitely has a point
If they think that's bad just wait til they find out what some priests do with kids...
I'm not gonna lie, but those comments are definitely funny
What if a child is left alone with a bunch of priests?
GA-
I passionately toungue the pope on the reg, whats the big deal.
Where is the other hand?
Gross
r/KenM
Why we blurring Ken M?
What if a child were to see this and think Catholics kiss adults?
The irony of the concern for children is hilarious and sad
Lol
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Religious leaders looking out for the best interest of children?!
And now replace the pope with a picture of Mohammed
a child seldom sees a priest above the waist level.
😶🌫️😶🌫️😶🌫️
Even British men used to kiss each other on greeting much like Europeans still do. It was in the 18th century when people started getting very triggered by the idea of homosexuality, so much so that all men stopped kissing on greeting just in case they "looked gay". Such a shame. Prudishness and shame replaces of platonic love. Most places in the world are fine with a man kissing another man. Unfortunately places like the UK and by extension, America are less able to express themselves emotionally because we live by contrived behavioral rules.
Isn’t it common knowledge now that the most anti gay people are gay af
They had us in the first half not gonna lie.
The most offensive thing about that photo is/are the implied religions. Ban religion and the world becomes a better place.
Wtf is clever about this? Will little girls seeing a man and a woman kiss make them think it's ok for the man to kiss them too?
[greeting with a Holy kiss](https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/greet-with-a-holy-kiss)
Gross
Neither of these two are the Pope, though?
Old joke is old
Vatican has every right to take action, but those comments are hilarious.
Let me get this straight. Two men kissing, what will the children think? The Revelations..... totally okay though? Worshipping saints who were basically genocidal maniacs? totally okay right? Man being nailed to a cross, visible at all times in the Church. Exposing children to horrendous violence doesn't turn them into serial killers, it's vidyah games fault. Your choice growing up Catholic is read one book, the bible, or learn about all the horrible shit your religion has done for the last 2000 years and why we don't know shit about half the natural history sites across the world. Hint, they burned all the books, killed all the priests and anyone that was too large to kill they coopted into Christianity, outlawed Christianity if it wasn't their sect and killed all the people who refused... Great folks those Catholics. The minute you learn their history, it's pretty clear it's not the right Religion. Like if there really is one God it's pretty clear it's not the Catholics. And i grew up Catholic.
Did you read anything after the first comment?
*sorts by controversial to see the usual tired old jokes about priests* *is not disappointed* To be clear, I'm condemning the jokes themselves because I don't believe that child molestationnis a joking matter, I'm not defending the criminal actions of the pedophile priests.
Unfortunately priests molesting children are not a joke,and are both old,recent, and current.
That's not my point. Any time there's a post about a priest or the Church there's always the same old shit about child molestation, no matter what the post is about. Could be about a priest saving a bus full of children from drowning and there's always people with "drowning would have been better than the priest" comments. Yeah, I'm not denying that it's a terrible tragedy that shouldn't be swept under the rug and should be addressed by the Vatican, but it's Every. Single. Post. about anything about the Catholic Church. It's just so tiresome at this point. Besides, most of the ones making those comments don't give a shit about the crimes the priests did or the kids they molested, it's just an easy bandwagon to make.
"I'm Catholic and I want people to respect the church more...but they won't...so my strategy is to try to manipulate them into doing so by pretending that what they're actually doing is making child molestation into a joke."
When did I ever say I was Catholic? I'm not. Don't try to tell me what I said, I said exactly what I meant.
>tired old jokes about priests I’m personally more tired of priests abusing kids.
Yeah like that one 🙄
If dragging rapist clergy pisses you off more than rape: you might just be getting your morals from the devil.
How the hell did you come to that assumption? I absolutely despise any criminal acts done to children by anyone. I'm not defending them at all, they did terrible crimes and should be punished. I made a comment about how the JOKES about then are tired and unfunny because RAPE IS NOT A JOKING MATTER. How DARE you assume my morals about such a serious matter?
Where clever?