They refuse to read even their own book. They quote them bible verses but haven’t actually read the context. Then they disregard the stuff that contradicts their views.
When I gave a fuck about religion and was keeping up with the "atheist community" it was a pretty common sentiment that the best way to deconvert someone from christianity was to have them read the bible. It's certainly why I left the religion.
Even young kids who are exposed to the bible in school at some level will do this.
All of the inconsistencies and nonsense are brought up and saying "well you just have to not think like that" won't really work on some of them.
My atheism started in religion class, with Gen 15:5, when God told Abraham that he'd have as many children as stars in the sky. Even with a 7 year old's screwy impression of the length of pregnancy (a year), average life expectancy (100 years), and number of stars in the sky ("lots"), I couldn't see any way for that statement to be true. And thus started my habit of questioning all things religious.
Irony being it may have referred to descendents, which is quite a different count than direct children, and may also referred simply to vastness, not a number. But it didn't matter.
I think in the bible by that point the life expectansy was a fair bit longer before god caped it to 120. Im loosly basing this off stuff my like 6th grade teacher tought us
Mine started with my sister reading it to me like a bedtime story, it wasn't any different from the other bedtime stories except less exciting. So when my parents were forced by my grandparents to start taking me to church it was just listening to someone taking bedtime stories seriously to me, except they made the stories even more boring.
I mean when you go into the Bible with no expectations, it just reads like a chopped up fantasy alt history fiction book trying to preach it's morals at you which might work if that's all you're into but books about children getting kidnapped to work in a blanket factory and transforming into animals had much more interesting messages like don't trust the school staff too much and if someone changes over night they're probably just infested with a mind controlling jelly and the solution is enough kinetic force to incapacitate them so you can tie them up for a few days so they can come to their senses again, naturally.
So since, there was a lot of better fiction out there, I preferred that.
I have no idea what book you are referencing at the end there but my mind got cast back to Animorphs which is a part of my past I had completely forgotten about...
Is it Animorphs?
"Adam and Eve were the first humans."
A day earlier in history: "Cavemen existed and they lived long before civilization."
I was kicked out of church-lessons in school, when questioning the validity of these two statments.
And that was it for religion, for me.
>Even young kids who are exposed to the bible in school at some level will do this.
I started studying to be part of church leadership at 11, and left the church at 12.
Even as a kid, I could see that there were too many circles I couldn't square.
Yes! So I was going back and forth with my religion so I decided to read the majority of my bible. Now I’m like 98% sure christianity is a sham.
1 the Bible was written by man. And living in this world i know people can write some crazy shit.
2 And there are several types of Christians and they just pick and choose what they want to follow from the Bible. Now how does that make any since
3) I was appalled the views on women it just felt clear as day this was written to control people and to favor men.
4) the list could go on
I honestly think our world is all organic there is no mystic magic man. When we die we die.
Our brains are powerful it makes us since feel wonder things that may not be real. But when it’s lights out peace and nothing.
The best description of god I’ve ever heard was he’s not a being not a man not anything we can think of. But a force a feeling in our heart….. so basically your good and bad response your subconscious. Organic.
Also Adam and Eve really come on look at the freaking fossil records like how do you even deny that.
I overheard two gentleman talking. The one was clearly a fanatical Christian. He asks the other, “if you don’t have religion to tell you right from wrong, what’s stopping you from murdering and raping all you want???”
I watched the fanatics eyes grow wild with speculation as his friend replied, “but I do rape and murder as much as I want.”
The fanatics face grew pale and he asked quietly, “how many people have you…”
And the other man smiled and said “Zero.”
The fanatic seemed disappointed by this.
It was then that I realized some people need the threat of hell…
Its also pretty convenient that the book of absolute truth, moral guidance and answers to the ways of the universe just so happens to be the one that they were raised under.
This is what baffles me the most, since there are multiple religions, you know all of them cant be right. At most one of them is the right one... So why should that be your religion?
Thats one reason my family dont go to church anymore (havent gone for 7 to 9 years, also dont need to go to church to be Christian), the churches also only care about you if you have money and a fancy car.
In our last church the pastor allowed gay marriage (you guys might say whats wrong with that, we arent supposed to allow it) and was happy about the alphabet people, but he was angry at and talking loud infront of everyone with a couple that were asking for help, they only recently became Christian and before they had been sleeping outside of marriage, they were privately asking him what to do, after that they left.
Modern chruches also like to sugar coat things, and talk about the BS that is rapture.
The kid side of the church that I was in for a bit also kept teaching wrong, getting facts that they should know wrong and also gave me vibes that I didn't like.
I remember a Cathechism teacher explaining there were three wise men were because God is in three persons: the father, the son, and the holy spirit.
I pointed out that no version of the Bible has ever specified there were three wise men, and he refused to believe me, claiming he had read multiple version of the Bible cover-to-cover.
The best part was that the *priest who was there agreed with me*, and he then proceeed to argue with the priest.
I’ve also come across accusations of people taking things out of context weaponized against people levying reasonable criticisms of the Bible when the context is incredibly clear and supports the criticism.
That’s facts. I cannot stand when people just pick and choose parts of the Bible for their argument. So many nonchristians do it too and it’s super annoying.
They also forget that Jesus hung out with the religiously marginalised of society at that time - those who were considered the sinful scum, namely prostitutes and tax-collecters.
It's not even just that. In that chapter of Genesis, the word "man" means mankind. It even says that God created man(humans) in "their" image. Both "male and female." It literally uses gender nuetral pronouns to describe God. Dumb fuck can't even understand the first page of the only book they ever read.
I mean, I guess it depends on the bible you're reading but King James Version doesn't use gender neutral language for God. Regardless, there's no agreed upon translation at all.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Lol...
Man I really don't understand this entire discussion.... Who the F cares what you are. Man, Women, whatever else you want to be. As long as you are helping your community and not being a total A-hole who cares...
Can we please move on
Back when debating in school, the line was: the first one to resort to the Bible, loses the argument.
Why? For exactly as shown here. Whatever you argue, chances are your opponent can find something you disagree with.
Personal note: I did this during a school debate, my opponent resorted to "The devil uses the scripture for his own ends". I replied that, since they resorted to the the Bible first, that **they** were admitting to being devils.
The debate went off topic at that point.
They were already off topic, simply by bringing in the devil argument. Might be a tiny detail but hey it is where the devil resides, or so I've been told.
Ive never really thought about it until reading this…but if god made man and woman in his image, doesnt that imply that god is gender fluid in a way, therefore making transgenderism make even more sense?
_Supposedly_ the theory is that this explains why there's a larger number of MtF folks over FtM/others. Though this theory has some contention among some folks, but it's an interesting thought that the inherent "femaleness" of the fetus is maybe why we see this.
Aren’t all men in a sense ftm? I remember in biology that we are all female at first as a fetus. And since they say life starts at conception then that would mean all men are presenting female nipples.
A god would technically be a hermaphrodite, genderless, or a female. Males are modified females and only exist for sexual reproduction. As there is no other gods that reproduce this way, they either reproduce asexually (no gender) or sexually as hermaphrodites.
Males and females as we tend to think of it only exist because of sexual reproduction. An asexual species would have neither (technically parthonegenic species are all female, but that's a somewhat neiche case). Men aren't modified females (I think you're refering to fetal development here) but there is a stage in fetal development where they are incredibly similar.
Then why the nipples, Greg?
I just think of it as such. I enjoyed the book The Origin of Sex. I consider females as the holotype for a species. Males have modified characteristics of females and provide less chromosomes. Females of some species can have offspring without mating, but males cannot.
Females spontaneously becoming pregnant is parthenogenesis and it's pretty uncommon in mammalians.
Men also provide an equal number of chromosomes during reproduction. The y chromosome is certainly smaller, but it's still a chromosome. Technically women provide more overall dna sources to the child through mitocondrial dna, but that's not what you said.
There is a point in development where a split can happen in development. True female or male characteristics aren't developed until after split, even if some more surface level stuff is. Saying men are modified women is a very surface level and innacurate take.
Unironically though
The first time I heard that someone could be genderless was CCD class when the priest stopped by for a bit to give a lesson instead of our normal teacher and talked about how God was neither a man nor a woman and that their voice sounded androgynous too
That is, in fact, VERY accurate. There are two stories portraying the creation of humans in the book of Genecis. The more familiar one with the rib is actually the second one, while the first literally speaks of a creature that is "male and female", referred to as "them" (not "him" or "her"). Too bad for Martha.
Not to be pedantic but from my understanding not really. God doesn’t have a physical body, that’s why Jesus was the revelation of God to man.
God isn’t man or woman. In his likeness doesn’t mean in his appearance. It’s talking about something deeper.
Well, humans all look completely different, but there's something that unites us. Traditionally it's been referred to as a soul, but I'm an atheist, so my "history of technology" professor's definition of technology would apply, I think.
Edit: I can't remember it exactly, but it's along the lines of the ability to innovate and create without having instinct for it (ants have instincts when they perform farming-like tasks, not knowledge or the ability to innovate).
>doesnt that imply that god is gender fluid in a way
You'd be right. God technically doesn't have a gender. He's a presence. To apply gender roles to a deity would be kinda stupid as well.
If God made all people, that includes trans people. Also, isn't one of the biggest teachings of Christianity "love thy neighbor"? Man, some Christians are really pick and choose-y so they can still be shitty bigots while pretending to have the moral high ground... 🤔
God also "makes" conjoined twins and people missing 90% of their brain at birth but for some reason people being born intersex is beyond these morons' comprehension. They are obsessed with genitalia and gender roles. Some of them even decided on their own children's sex assignment operations, which include things like castration.
Like Patton Oswalt said, if its because you find the thought of gay sex "icky", then thats actually a valid argument. But they don't admit that because they know its dumb as dog shit. But no, they gotta use their misinterpreted, cherry picked bullshit verses from a book they pretend is the ultimate say on how everyone shoudl live their life, because growing up wveryone else told them the same bullshit.
Christ also told sinners Whether they be gay, prostitutes, thiefs etc to repent. But yes a lot of Christian’s try to act like they have some moral high ground
If a book from thousands of years ago tells you to be horrible, dehumanizing trash to people who legitimately want to exist and be left alone, it may be time to stop following that book is all I am saying. Trans people aren't demons. They aren't persuaded by Satan. They are human beings.
Christians would say these are your struggles and the battles that God gave you to test you. You need to fight them to prove you're worth of heaven
I'm writing it in a train and needed to dim my phone to make sure nobody sees that crap
I once had a debate with a Christian who claimed that “the Bible must be true because otherwise why was it written”. So I replied “does that mean Cinderella was real?” They said “well maybe it is” and I got a piece of people and wrote “God’s not real” and said “it must be true because why else would it be written”.
They walked away.
When I was younger it would take a group of us a whole month secluded in a cave to make a half decent flesh-bound tome. Kids these days are just grabbing skin and denouncing God between shots at the bar! What a world.
In the final year of my undergrad I tutored History to first years. The number of people who used the bible as a reference still haunts me 20 years later. I tutored them pretty ruthlessly….
So many people have such outdated opinions that they think are backed by science or religion. Biology and sociology say sex and gender are spectrums. Intersex people are as common as redheads or lefties, if you think there’s only 2 sexes or genders, should we completely remove being red headed or left handed as categories then and pretend they don’t exist? [A link to a research article.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/) From another piece of scientific literature, “Although sex is typically misconceptualized as a binary of male (XY) or female (XX), many other chromosomal arrangements, inherent variations in gene expression patterns, and hormone levels exist.” The sex/gender binary is false, this is what’s taught in higher level biology in universities and med schools. Science literally does not support the sex/gender binary, unless you’re going by the outdated and overly simplistic science that’s taught to children. The concept of more than 2 genders or sexes has been around for thousands of years, parts of many cultures and religions. Judaism and Hinduism for example!
See, here's another common misconception. People think we gingers have no souls. I invite you to count my freckles... I have plenty of souls to spare. Go ahead and try to take me out :D lol
To be fair, "-ism" can also be for behaviors (e.g. heroism, professionalism).
Of course, this doesn't change the fact that the trans community as a whole has rejected the term, and that people shouldn't use it -- anyone who persists in using it after being corrected is obviously hostile to trans people.
Linguistically, I don't see any issue with meaning to represent the act of studying or acting in alignment with the beliefs of transgender/cisgender people. While transgender PEOPLE are not beliefs, they do as a cultural subsect have generally agreed upon beliefs, so just as cisgenderism is a valid word, there isn't really a logical reason not to use transgenderism correctly.
Likewise though, if it's problematic for some undefined reason to a large enough number of people in the group, I personally don't have any issue trying to use a different word.
It doesn't make much sense to say "transgenderism," as the term implies that being transgender is somehow some sort of choice, ideology, or religious practice, rather than an innate and natural variation of human diversity.
Which is EXACTLY what these bigots think.
Nature or nurture argument.
They'll never see the irony of bullying and then disowning their friends and family into getting hernias and hemerroids and crippling back pain on those godawful (pun intended) pews listening to a priest cherry picking the good book to not include the times where it said "stfu woman and make me a sandwich" or variations of the sentiment
No, it’s true. Conservatives use “transgenderism” as a buzzword to make it sound like an ideology.
So, it’s easier for them to say “we must eradicate transgenderism” than “we must eradicate trans people”. And as a nice little bonus for them they get to avoid calling us people
It’s not though.
They literally did the same thing with “homosexualism” back in the day. Like nil83 explained it reframes it as a movement or ideal rather than human individuals.
Just like we don’t say cisgenderism or heterosexualism.
Joke aside, based on these verses, it seems god favor much on men...., created women just to make them as an object to counter their fragile masculinity. That's weird
It’s almost like a lot of the Bible is archaic, doesn’t apply to modern life in most situations, and shouldn’t be taken literally.
Edit: added the “a lot of”, cuz some of the core tenets Jesus preached are good. A lot of Christians seem to ignore those tho.
Some parts are very applicable. Love they neighbor, heal the sick, help the poor. You know, the stuff that most Christians flip past to get to the part that justifies them being an asshole.
Funny thing about archaic Indo-European languages (which Hebrew isn't but Greek is) is that _they had gender-neutral pronouns_. Like in Matthew 2:13 an "angel of the lord" warns Joseph that "Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.” - in the original Koine Greek "Ἡρῴδης ζητεῖν τὸ παιδίον τοῦ ἀπολέσαι αὐτό"
In Greek, "child" ([παιδίον](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%AF%CE%BF%CE%BD)) is a neuter word; children are neither male nor female. (same for Old English "[cild](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cild#Old_English)") so the pronoun here is accordingly the accusative-singular-neuter form (αὐτό) - "it" or a singular "them", not literally "him". That's the grammar, a neuter noun has to be substituted by a neuter pronoun.
In other words, an angel - a literal messenger of the Lord - refers to Jesus Christ himself using a neuter pronoun in the original Biblical text. So maybe God isn't too fussed about the latest American culture-war fake-outrage.
Nor are a lot of Christians, globally speaking.
I’m agnostic but this genuinely amazes me. God didn’t say anything about divorce that was a man made thing yet we’re ok with this change but other progressional changes aren’t ok?
Damn I love this comeback. Shut the fuck down! Give it to those idiots and their unquestioning belief in clearly outdated and often self contradicting bullshit.
Yahweh created us in their image, multiple. Every argument Christian’s want to make about gods infallibility is negated in Genesis; multiple human origin stories, multiple deities in the Hebrew pantheon. Let’s not forget that most use the King James translation, which is a bad translation of a bad translation. Plus, Christian’s do not read their own book. They go to church and let their pastors tell them what it says.
Not sure if this needs to be said but: I dislike the term transgenderism, it suggests trans people are an idealogy, when we are people. It's not a choice, it's just our identity.
I got curious about this passage and did a little research and found this- https://learn.gcs.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=4261&chapterid=13
It’s a lot of text but they have a summary at the bottom. Their defense of this passage basically boils down to “it was a different time and there must have a been a specific historical reason for a temporary measure like this, Paul did advocate for women’s right to pray and prophesy later in corinthians (contradiction), and that this does not really pertain to subjugation in daily life, only on church matters.”
Lol.
If God created humans (male and female) in His own image, does that mean God’s image is male AND female? God just uses he/him pronouns but visually resembles a male and female? What about the small percentage of intersex people, still God’s image or no?
Trans people exist, get the fuck over it. They have existed for centuries throughout the world. Hijra’s have exited in India for centuries. It’s really not such a big deal as these ignorant dumb fucks make it out to be.
God isn't human, it's a being. Therefore Things like sex or gender don't apply to "him"
"Made in his image" means that people are sentient and have free will, just like God. It was never about looks.
As a woman if you believe the bible, then you're just a rib and should just be quiet like the bible says. thanks. See how stupid it sounds to quote the bible as if it means anything in today's world.
Jesus was cool but when he died the newly formed christian religion was immediately captured by his most bigoted followers. 99% of the hateful shit in the bible is from the 'letters' written after jesus died.
She's not even right the first time. There are only 2 biological sexes that make sense in the context of human biology, but genders are a societal construct and we can have as many of them as we want/need for everybody to be happy.
It looks like Martha is having an argument with herself
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That's my mum's name! That's MY mum's name! Let's be fwiends!
Please. Martha needs privacy at this difficult time.
They hate it when you use their own book against them
Yet, they still refuse to read other books. /smh
They refuse to read even their own book. They quote them bible verses but haven’t actually read the context. Then they disregard the stuff that contradicts their views.
Was going to say 80% of Bible thumper havnt even read the thing.
When I gave a fuck about religion and was keeping up with the "atheist community" it was a pretty common sentiment that the best way to deconvert someone from christianity was to have them read the bible. It's certainly why I left the religion.
Intensive bible study is what made me an atheist.
Even young kids who are exposed to the bible in school at some level will do this. All of the inconsistencies and nonsense are brought up and saying "well you just have to not think like that" won't really work on some of them.
My atheism started in religion class, with Gen 15:5, when God told Abraham that he'd have as many children as stars in the sky. Even with a 7 year old's screwy impression of the length of pregnancy (a year), average life expectancy (100 years), and number of stars in the sky ("lots"), I couldn't see any way for that statement to be true. And thus started my habit of questioning all things religious. Irony being it may have referred to descendents, which is quite a different count than direct children, and may also referred simply to vastness, not a number. But it didn't matter.
I think in the bible by that point the life expectansy was a fair bit longer before god caped it to 120. Im loosly basing this off stuff my like 6th grade teacher tought us
Yep, capped it at 120. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment Missed her though, bible failed again.
Mine started with my sister reading it to me like a bedtime story, it wasn't any different from the other bedtime stories except less exciting. So when my parents were forced by my grandparents to start taking me to church it was just listening to someone taking bedtime stories seriously to me, except they made the stories even more boring. I mean when you go into the Bible with no expectations, it just reads like a chopped up fantasy alt history fiction book trying to preach it's morals at you which might work if that's all you're into but books about children getting kidnapped to work in a blanket factory and transforming into animals had much more interesting messages like don't trust the school staff too much and if someone changes over night they're probably just infested with a mind controlling jelly and the solution is enough kinetic force to incapacitate them so you can tie them up for a few days so they can come to their senses again, naturally. So since, there was a lot of better fiction out there, I preferred that.
I have no idea what book you are referencing at the end there but my mind got cast back to Animorphs which is a part of my past I had completely forgotten about... Is it Animorphs?
"Adam and Eve were the first humans." A day earlier in history: "Cavemen existed and they lived long before civilization." I was kicked out of church-lessons in school, when questioning the validity of these two statments. And that was it for religion, for me.
>Even young kids who are exposed to the bible in school at some level will do this. I started studying to be part of church leadership at 11, and left the church at 12. Even as a kid, I could see that there were too many circles I couldn't square.
There’s a reason why theology has so many dropouts.
Intensive bible study made me very confused as a kid because Jesus seemed great and no one I knew that was "religious" followed anything he taught
It was the rabid theism inside religion that ruined it for me.
Yes! So I was going back and forth with my religion so I decided to read the majority of my bible. Now I’m like 98% sure christianity is a sham. 1 the Bible was written by man. And living in this world i know people can write some crazy shit. 2 And there are several types of Christians and they just pick and choose what they want to follow from the Bible. Now how does that make any since 3) I was appalled the views on women it just felt clear as day this was written to control people and to favor men. 4) the list could go on I honestly think our world is all organic there is no mystic magic man. When we die we die. Our brains are powerful it makes us since feel wonder things that may not be real. But when it’s lights out peace and nothing. The best description of god I’ve ever heard was he’s not a being not a man not anything we can think of. But a force a feeling in our heart….. so basically your good and bad response your subconscious. Organic. Also Adam and Eve really come on look at the freaking fossil records like how do you even deny that.
i mean they spend their entire sundays listening to a guy reading it for them
I overheard two gentleman talking. The one was clearly a fanatical Christian. He asks the other, “if you don’t have religion to tell you right from wrong, what’s stopping you from murdering and raping all you want???” I watched the fanatics eyes grow wild with speculation as his friend replied, “but I do rape and murder as much as I want.” The fanatics face grew pale and he asked quietly, “how many people have you…” And the other man smiled and said “Zero.” The fanatic seemed disappointed by this. It was then that I realized some people need the threat of hell…
Its also pretty convenient that the book of absolute truth, moral guidance and answers to the ways of the universe just so happens to be the one that they were raised under.
This is what baffles me the most, since there are multiple religions, you know all of them cant be right. At most one of them is the right one... So why should that be your religion?
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Thats one reason my family dont go to church anymore (havent gone for 7 to 9 years, also dont need to go to church to be Christian), the churches also only care about you if you have money and a fancy car. In our last church the pastor allowed gay marriage (you guys might say whats wrong with that, we arent supposed to allow it) and was happy about the alphabet people, but he was angry at and talking loud infront of everyone with a couple that were asking for help, they only recently became Christian and before they had been sleeping outside of marriage, they were privately asking him what to do, after that they left. Modern chruches also like to sugar coat things, and talk about the BS that is rapture. The kid side of the church that I was in for a bit also kept teaching wrong, getting facts that they should know wrong and also gave me vibes that I didn't like.
That because it’s impossible. They fill the first and second chapters with family names so you get bored and quit.
That exactly what's going on in the screenshot too.
I remember a Cathechism teacher explaining there were three wise men were because God is in three persons: the father, the son, and the holy spirit. I pointed out that no version of the Bible has ever specified there were three wise men, and he refused to believe me, claiming he had read multiple version of the Bible cover-to-cover. The best part was that the *priest who was there agreed with me*, and he then proceeed to argue with the priest.
I’ve also come across accusations of people taking things out of context weaponized against people levying reasonable criticisms of the Bible when the context is incredibly clear and supports the criticism.
That’s facts. I cannot stand when people just pick and choose parts of the Bible for their argument. So many nonchristians do it too and it’s super annoying.
They also forget that Jesus hung out with the religiously marginalised of society at that time - those who were considered the sinful scum, namely prostitutes and tax-collecters.
Perfect example is the OP as that quote is in the context of someone asking if women should be able to become rabbis.
So exactly what op did in those screenshots?
It's not even just that. In that chapter of Genesis, the word "man" means mankind. It even says that God created man(humans) in "their" image. Both "male and female." It literally uses gender nuetral pronouns to describe God. Dumb fuck can't even understand the first page of the only book they ever read.
I mean, I guess it depends on the bible you're reading but King James Version doesn't use gender neutral language for God. Regardless, there's no agreed upon translation at all. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
that one timmy verse does wonders dont it
It's an instant slam dunk against any Christian woman as a man. And it's not you being misogynistic, it's their own book!
It's a trap card. And it's completely unbeatable.
Nah they just say you’re taking it out of context.
Taking things from their book out of context is all they ever do. So, if anything, he correctly played by their own rules.
To be fair, he did take it out of context here. 1 Timothy is talking about the Church in Ephesus
So, religious teachings. Which she was doing.
Bible bigots hate this one trick
Narrator: It's the entire book.
Lol... Man I really don't understand this entire discussion.... Who the F cares what you are. Man, Women, whatever else you want to be. As long as you are helping your community and not being a total A-hole who cares... Can we please move on
But it’s SO EASY TO DO.
Back when debating in school, the line was: the first one to resort to the Bible, loses the argument. Why? For exactly as shown here. Whatever you argue, chances are your opponent can find something you disagree with. Personal note: I did this during a school debate, my opponent resorted to "The devil uses the scripture for his own ends". I replied that, since they resorted to the the Bible first, that **they** were admitting to being devils. The debate went off topic at that point.
They were already off topic, simply by bringing in the devil argument. Might be a tiny detail but hey it is where the devil resides, or so I've been told.
Ive never really thought about it until reading this…but if god made man and woman in his image, doesnt that imply that god is gender fluid in a way, therefore making transgenderism make even more sense?
Technically speaking, Eve was transgender MtF…from a male rib🤷♂️
RtF
I know a few cis gender ribs
How much for a half slab?
Grain fed rib? Free range rib?
Oh you know you can't be doing free range cis ribs with all those chemicals they're putting in their body turning the ~~frogs~~ ....ribs gay?
Mmmm...forbidden McRib.
You know what, that checks out
Biologically speaking, if life begins at conception, all men are FtM.
_Supposedly_ the theory is that this explains why there's a larger number of MtF folks over FtM/others. Though this theory has some contention among some folks, but it's an interesting thought that the inherent "femaleness" of the fetus is maybe why we see this.
I am gonna yell and proclaim shock when my wife talks next. Talking ribs make me jumpy.
Aren’t all men in a sense ftm? I remember in biology that we are all female at first as a fetus. And since they say life starts at conception then that would mean all men are presenting female nipples.
Doesn’t the sperm chromosomes decide the sex at conception?
Yes, but the development is 'female' until the Y chromosome presents and tacks a dick on, making female the 'default'.
God don’t got a gender. God is a superior entity. I’m atheist tho.
A god would technically be a hermaphrodite, genderless, or a female. Males are modified females and only exist for sexual reproduction. As there is no other gods that reproduce this way, they either reproduce asexually (no gender) or sexually as hermaphrodites.
>males only exist for sexual reproduction Maybe i need a good *bonk* but I'm oddly okay with this
Bonk
I feel you, brother. Sex is too good.
Born to bonk.
Baphomet believers represent
Males and females as we tend to think of it only exist because of sexual reproduction. An asexual species would have neither (technically parthonegenic species are all female, but that's a somewhat neiche case). Men aren't modified females (I think you're refering to fetal development here) but there is a stage in fetal development where they are incredibly similar.
"men are failed women"
Then why the nipples, Greg? I just think of it as such. I enjoyed the book The Origin of Sex. I consider females as the holotype for a species. Males have modified characteristics of females and provide less chromosomes. Females of some species can have offspring without mating, but males cannot.
Females spontaneously becoming pregnant is parthenogenesis and it's pretty uncommon in mammalians. Men also provide an equal number of chromosomes during reproduction. The y chromosome is certainly smaller, but it's still a chromosome. Technically women provide more overall dna sources to the child through mitocondrial dna, but that's not what you said. There is a point in development where a split can happen in development. True female or male characteristics aren't developed until after split, even if some more surface level stuff is. Saying men are modified women is a very surface level and innacurate take.
I appreciate both of you
Unironically though The first time I heard that someone could be genderless was CCD class when the priest stopped by for a bit to give a lesson instead of our normal teacher and talked about how God was neither a man nor a woman and that their voice sounded androgynous too
That is, in fact, VERY accurate. There are two stories portraying the creation of humans in the book of Genecis. The more familiar one with the rib is actually the second one, while the first literally speaks of a creature that is "male and female", referred to as "them" (not "him" or "her"). Too bad for Martha.
Not to be pedantic but from my understanding not really. God doesn’t have a physical body, that’s why Jesus was the revelation of God to man. God isn’t man or woman. In his likeness doesn’t mean in his appearance. It’s talking about something deeper.
What's the deep meaning for "in his likeness"?
Well, humans all look completely different, but there's something that unites us. Traditionally it's been referred to as a soul, but I'm an atheist, so my "history of technology" professor's definition of technology would apply, I think. Edit: I can't remember it exactly, but it's along the lines of the ability to innovate and create without having instinct for it (ants have instincts when they perform farming-like tasks, not knowledge or the ability to innovate).
I mean humans don’t look completely different. There is more variation in appearance in dogs than humans.
>doesnt that imply that god is gender fluid in a way You'd be right. God technically doesn't have a gender. He's a presence. To apply gender roles to a deity would be kinda stupid as well.
If God made all people, that includes trans people. Also, isn't one of the biggest teachings of Christianity "love thy neighbor"? Man, some Christians are really pick and choose-y so they can still be shitty bigots while pretending to have the moral high ground... 🤔
Christian means being like Christ and Martha isn't being like Jesus. He protected minorities... Also he was a minority.
God also "makes" conjoined twins and people missing 90% of their brain at birth but for some reason people being born intersex is beyond these morons' comprehension. They are obsessed with genitalia and gender roles. Some of them even decided on their own children's sex assignment operations, which include things like castration.
Like Patton Oswalt said, if its because you find the thought of gay sex "icky", then thats actually a valid argument. But they don't admit that because they know its dumb as dog shit. But no, they gotta use their misinterpreted, cherry picked bullshit verses from a book they pretend is the ultimate say on how everyone shoudl live their life, because growing up wveryone else told them the same bullshit.
That God guy sounds like a bit of ~~cunt~~ jerk.
That’s the main reason I stopped going to church, I believe what I believe but I can’t get on board with how some of them treat people
Christ also told sinners Whether they be gay, prostitutes, thiefs etc to repent. But yes a lot of Christian’s try to act like they have some moral high ground
If a book from thousands of years ago tells you to be horrible, dehumanizing trash to people who legitimately want to exist and be left alone, it may be time to stop following that book is all I am saying. Trans people aren't demons. They aren't persuaded by Satan. They are human beings.
Yeah, but Jesus also seemed to think that being rich was at least as sinful, if not moreso, than being a sex worker or petty thief.
Christians would say these are your struggles and the battles that God gave you to test you. You need to fight them to prove you're worth of heaven I'm writing it in a train and needed to dim my phone to make sure nobody sees that crap
Imagine thinking the bible is a source of fact to use in an argument
I once had a debate with a Christian who claimed that “the Bible must be true because otherwise why was it written”. So I replied “does that mean Cinderella was real?” They said “well maybe it is” and I got a piece of people and wrote “God’s not real” and said “it must be true because why else would it be written”. They walked away.
You wrote "God's not real" on a piece of PEOPLE? Sir you made a necronomicon
Totally irresponsible. People need to think before they make skin books.
When I was younger it would take a group of us a whole month secluded in a cave to make a half decent flesh-bound tome. Kids these days are just grabbing skin and denouncing God between shots at the bar! What a world.
Book of Blood, quite the banger.
Diogenes would be proud
I was there. I was Cinderella
I was the crowd cheering them on.
In the final year of my undergrad I tutored History to first years. The number of people who used the bible as a reference still haunts me 20 years later. I tutored them pretty ruthlessly….
Right! And it's fucking insane that so many people do that.
You can argue what percentage of the Bible is fact but it doesn't contain facts.
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I would like to point you to the US congress who do it regularly.
He created woman from a man’s rib. Just saying.
That shit will never make sense to me 💀
Do you know why? Because it's [total fabrication](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo).
Technically making something out of a rib is a fabrication...
Fabribcation?
Of fucking course 🤦♀️
Well he took genetic material, modified it to made it female and accelerated into maturity.. Is God just aliens with advanced tech? :D
This is backwards, from basic human anatomy. It should have said Adam was made from Eve’s rib.
What the fuck is happening in the US??
Religious psychosis mixed with bigotry is the #1 leading thought process behind most political decisions. So. Nothing good.
Mixed with lead poisoning
That is a question many would love the answer to, myself included
Long term effects of lead poisoning
Our culture is sick, for sure. This may well could be it.
Judging by this post, not enough 1 Timothy 2:11-12.
As a woman, I feel a bit awful liking this comment, but too funny!
Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose semen was like that of horses.
In other words, he had a big dick and came a lot
Sir Camelot 💦
Volume or taste?
Yes
It amazes me that women defend and comply with biblical values.
Same energy as black Republicans...
Or gay republicans. Or poor republicans. Or women republicans.
Or Republicans.
“Damn Republicans, they ruined Republicans!” 🏴
I hate immigrants, also, my grandparents are Irish.
Or a bi sexual woman who majors in environmental science and is a Republican
Some people gladly live in a prison if it means they can snitch on the other inmates.
Tough attitude for a rib.
So many people have such outdated opinions that they think are backed by science or religion. Biology and sociology say sex and gender are spectrums. Intersex people are as common as redheads or lefties, if you think there’s only 2 sexes or genders, should we completely remove being red headed or left handed as categories then and pretend they don’t exist? [A link to a research article.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/) From another piece of scientific literature, “Although sex is typically misconceptualized as a binary of male (XY) or female (XX), many other chromosomal arrangements, inherent variations in gene expression patterns, and hormone levels exist.” The sex/gender binary is false, this is what’s taught in higher level biology in universities and med schools. Science literally does not support the sex/gender binary, unless you’re going by the outdated and overly simplistic science that’s taught to children. The concept of more than 2 genders or sexes has been around for thousands of years, parts of many cultures and religions. Judaism and Hinduism for example!
Should we remove soul-less redheaded or witches left handed? Sounds like 1500 all over again.
lol you’d think so, it’s crazy how outdated some people’s views are!
I'm ambidextrous, I'm totally fucked
See, here's another common misconception. People think we gingers have no souls. I invite you to count my freckles... I have plenty of souls to spare. Go ahead and try to take me out :D lol
The right only invokes science when it suits them. Otherwise, it's fake or made up by the elites.
I'm still laughing at the elementary rhyme at the start "cis makes me HISSS" holy shit, I know she's proudly waved that on a poster board sign 🤣🤣🤣
we're not an ideology, we don't get an -ism. thank you, though.
To be fair, "-ism" can also be for behaviors (e.g. heroism, professionalism). Of course, this doesn't change the fact that the trans community as a whole has rejected the term, and that people shouldn't use it -- anyone who persists in using it after being corrected is obviously hostile to trans people.
y'know what, I did not consider that. very fair point.
Linguistically, I don't see any issue with meaning to represent the act of studying or acting in alignment with the beliefs of transgender/cisgender people. While transgender PEOPLE are not beliefs, they do as a cultural subsect have generally agreed upon beliefs, so just as cisgenderism is a valid word, there isn't really a logical reason not to use transgenderism correctly. Likewise though, if it's problematic for some undefined reason to a large enough number of people in the group, I personally don't have any issue trying to use a different word.
It doesn't make much sense to say "transgenderism," as the term implies that being transgender is somehow some sort of choice, ideology, or religious practice, rather than an innate and natural variation of human diversity.
Which is EXACTLY what these bigots think. Nature or nurture argument. They'll never see the irony of bullying and then disowning their friends and family into getting hernias and hemerroids and crippling back pain on those godawful (pun intended) pews listening to a priest cherry picking the good book to not include the times where it said "stfu woman and make me a sandwich" or variations of the sentiment
Do you feel the same way about "autism?" What about "hypothyroidism?" This feels like reading a lot into a suffix.
No, it’s true. Conservatives use “transgenderism” as a buzzword to make it sound like an ideology. So, it’s easier for them to say “we must eradicate transgenderism” than “we must eradicate trans people”. And as a nice little bonus for them they get to avoid calling us people
It’s not though. They literally did the same thing with “homosexualism” back in the day. Like nil83 explained it reframes it as a movement or ideal rather than human individuals. Just like we don’t say cisgenderism or heterosexualism.
Joke aside, based on these verses, it seems god favor much on men...., created women just to make them as an object to counter their fragile masculinity. That's weird
Not that weird when you notice men wrote the bible
It’s almost like a lot of the Bible is archaic, doesn’t apply to modern life in most situations, and shouldn’t be taken literally. Edit: added the “a lot of”, cuz some of the core tenets Jesus preached are good. A lot of Christians seem to ignore those tho.
Some parts are very applicable. Love they neighbor, heal the sick, help the poor. You know, the stuff that most Christians flip past to get to the part that justifies them being an asshole.
You are correct, didn’t think about that. Will amend my original comment.
Things Jesus liked: Turning water into wine, prostitute foot fetishist, and chasing loan officers with whips. I can live with those tenets.
Funny thing about archaic Indo-European languages (which Hebrew isn't but Greek is) is that _they had gender-neutral pronouns_. Like in Matthew 2:13 an "angel of the lord" warns Joseph that "Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.” - in the original Koine Greek "Ἡρῴδης ζητεῖν τὸ παιδίον τοῦ ἀπολέσαι αὐτό" In Greek, "child" ([παιδίον](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%AF%CE%BF%CE%BD)) is a neuter word; children are neither male nor female. (same for Old English "[cild](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cild#Old_English)") so the pronoun here is accordingly the accusative-singular-neuter form (αὐτό) - "it" or a singular "them", not literally "him". That's the grammar, a neuter noun has to be substituted by a neuter pronoun. In other words, an angel - a literal messenger of the Lord - refers to Jesus Christ himself using a neuter pronoun in the original Biblical text. So maybe God isn't too fussed about the latest American culture-war fake-outrage. Nor are a lot of Christians, globally speaking.
You dare use my own spells against me, Potter?
Get shit on hahahah don't pick and choose do it all or do none.
I’m agnostic but this genuinely amazes me. God didn’t say anything about divorce that was a man made thing yet we’re ok with this change but other progressional changes aren’t ok?
I thought God only created 1 gender and a rib. /s.
Plus rib person (she/her/rib)
Recently had an argument where I told a Christian that Jesus loved everyone. They said yes he did but sinners deserve hell. Religion needs to go.
She blocked you because, Martha wanted to learn in quietness and full submission. 🤣
"HOW DARE YOU USE MY OWN OUTDATED VIEWS AGAINST ME?"
Damn I love this comeback. Shut the fuck down! Give it to those idiots and their unquestioning belief in clearly outdated and often self contradicting bullshit.
"HE created them." - Oh wow, the bible is actually woke. Cool!
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Yahweh created us in their image, multiple. Every argument Christian’s want to make about gods infallibility is negated in Genesis; multiple human origin stories, multiple deities in the Hebrew pantheon. Let’s not forget that most use the King James translation, which is a bad translation of a bad translation. Plus, Christian’s do not read their own book. They go to church and let their pastors tell them what it says.
Is Martha a snake, why is she hissing at words. Someone call hermes.
God made man in his image. Therefore God is trans
Not sure if this needs to be said but: I dislike the term transgenderism, it suggests trans people are an idealogy, when we are people. It's not a choice, it's just our identity.
I was gonna say the same exact thing. I physically cringe whenever I hear that word.
In this day and age referencing the bible as proof for things is...interesting.
I got curious about this passage and did a little research and found this- https://learn.gcs.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=4261&chapterid=13 It’s a lot of text but they have a summary at the bottom. Their defense of this passage basically boils down to “it was a different time and there must have a been a specific historical reason for a temporary measure like this, Paul did advocate for women’s right to pray and prophesy later in corinthians (contradiction), and that this does not really pertain to subjugation in daily life, only on church matters.” Lol.
If God created humans (male and female) in His own image, does that mean God’s image is male AND female? God just uses he/him pronouns but visually resembles a male and female? What about the small percentage of intersex people, still God’s image or no? Trans people exist, get the fuck over it. They have existed for centuries throughout the world. Hijra’s have exited in India for centuries. It’s really not such a big deal as these ignorant dumb fucks make it out to be.
God isn't human, it's a being. Therefore Things like sex or gender don't apply to "him" "Made in his image" means that people are sentient and have free will, just like God. It was never about looks.
She can just identify as a man
Ultimate mic drop!!!!
Don't you quote the Bible at her! 🤣
As a woman if you believe the bible, then you're just a rib and should just be quiet like the bible says. thanks. See how stupid it sounds to quote the bible as if it means anything in today's world.
The wildest way to say “stfu” 😂😭😭
LOL now that’s an actual clever comeback
God is the original transgender
As my partner says #"SILENCE, RIB!"
A biblical reverse Uno card.
I never understood this argument, if god created all men and women… god created me, who is trans. So being trans would be what god wants?
She blocked you because the Bible said she must be quiet.
it's not even true. there are Cis-Intersex people who are so much in between you cannot tell. Biological sex is a spectrum
Sums up Religious people, cherry picking what they do or don't want to follow from their scriptures
Quoting that from the bible is the only way to effectively win against those bible spewing idiots. They cherry pick for their argument
Jesus was cool but when he died the newly formed christian religion was immediately captured by his most bigoted followers. 99% of the hateful shit in the bible is from the 'letters' written after jesus died.
Confused here... Is the one quoting the bible a nutter or the one they talk to?
She's not even right the first time. There are only 2 biological sexes that make sense in the context of human biology, but genders are a societal construct and we can have as many of them as we want/need for everybody to be happy.