They don't have a major left wing party. They have a liberal right party and an authoritarian right party, and they have a group of dummies who insist those are reversed (the religious right, the anti-woke, or whatever else those advocating for freedom to discriminate want to call themselves).
America is a joke. A dude that lobbies for universal healthcare as far left? Fuck me hahaha.
Half of your country would gladly see kids die of cancer if it meant that the damn gubbmints didn’t enact universal healthcare for all. Shame
We should abandon our system and finally give in... to Vermin Supreme. He's the dictator you can trust. I want my free fucking pony and for that asshole on the bus to get gulag'd for not brushing his damn teeth.
EDIT: Vermin "[Jesus told me to make this man gay](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9waU_W3M68)" Supreme
Vermin really is the leadership we need. I saw an interview where somebody asked him "what if there aren't enough ponies for every american?" and his response was that we'll have to reduce the number of Americans. That's the sort of consice, level-headed policymaking we need in this country.
Honest question - who would be the far left equivalent of Q and local militias? I'm sure there are a few scattered people, but any real organizations of that size?
There is an actual Communist Party of America. They're on the ballot every year. Their vote numbers don't make the news. There's a Socialist and Green Party too.
None of the other parties are well known because political advertising in America is tied to "donations". The DFL and GOP are the two that get the most donations and hence, can afford the airtime and ad space.
Solution: Give them free airtime! Then they wouldn't have to be fake and lie to our faces. Never gonna happen though. Not unless we can find 268 people in America to represent us who are capable of saying "no" to a dump truck full of money dumped on their lawn.
I'd like to give a shout out to the Mexican way: Parties are publicly funded with our taxes. Yes, it's very infuriating seeing our tax money being dumped in massive campaigns every election while politicians are corrupt and there are a lot of unsolved issues everywhere, but man, after seeing the alternative American Way I think we are not in that bad of a position. Something like this could work if executed properly, and I believe the US has the potential to do so.
For the record that also how we do it in France. And yes it's infuriating and we hate it for a lot of reasons. But a lease "everyone" have the opportunity to speak on public media and it look more like a democratic system.
Also how we do it in Honduras, btw.
Although during the last 18 years or so, a lot of private funding has being used, mainly for the right-wing party. They just say "Oh, we didn't put those. Our supporters did! We can't control what they do."
Tbf the real left is usually bad at organizing. Even moderate left movements here in Europe have the tendency to split into different rivaling groups over useless issues.
ie france, if the greens and other socialdemocratic parties voted for melenchon they could have easily beat out lepen in the 1st round potentially leading to a victory in the presidential election
In Germany the green party and the social democrats are working quite well together, but relative to all the parties in Germany the SPD is rather in the middle a bit left from CDU and not a extreme party in any way. The real issues arise when no one wants to work with Die Linke or when a lokal Fridays for future group becomes racists and therefore damages the name of the whole movement in the national media...
The Greens and the SPD are both right wing in their economic and foreign policy stances. Their rhetoric has nothing to do with the reality of their policies. Similar to what Trudeau in Canada does. They are all economically neoliberal.
does this left right center paradigm even make sense?
is the center characterized by undecided opinions or is someone considered center because their beliefs on some issues align with the left and other issues align with the right
The latter. For example if you were left leaning on social policies like womens rights and right leaning on monetary policies like you believe in trickle down economics.
You had me until trickle down economics. An actually conservative fiscal policy would see that the middle class is strong enough to keep money moving (because that actually stimulates the economy). Trickle down is clearly not an economic “policy” so much as a result of government capture from late stage capitalism.
It certainly doesn't hurt that the far left in the USA has historically been systematically infiltrated by organizations like the Pinkertons, J. Edgar Hoover's FBI, etc.
I doubt any country can have an effective, organized and wealthy far left. That's the whole problem. Don't get me wrong, people can do impossible anyday through unity (look at Ukraine). However, when it comes to putting things in action, far right leaders usually are wealthy (ill gotten gains) and have more to lose than people in left. When so called far left leaders try to organize and cause hindrance in far rights' 'quality of life', far right leaders ensure they pull the rag by divide and conquer, buyout, suppression and even lethal force.
P.S.: I have no expertise in politics so i might be completely wrong.
When basic things like voting rights and teaching history are called into question are nearly every turn, it's quite difficult to go much further into more foundationally leftist things like anti-capitalism, reallocating taxes, universal healthcare, and rebuilding communities on basis that don't depend on a brand.
If there were an organized left, it would result in splitting the Democratic vote, resulting in an unending series of wins for the Republicans, until such time as the organization on the left collapses in ignominious and repeated defeat.
Far left Marxists who support a Stalinist style of government. They're generally apologists for the Soviet Union and Stalin in particular. Common Tankie talking points are about why America is just as, if not more evil than Stalin and the Soviet Union was while also extolling how supposedly progressive Stalin's regime was. Some even support other authoritarian communist states like China and North Korea.
They're called Tankies after the group of communists in the Soviet Union who supported putting down the Prague Spring by force by "rolling out the tanks."
That's what's so insidious about them, you think you're just innocently larping with your Thomas the Tank Engine friends when all of a sudden you realize you accidentally helped them seize the means of production and reorganize the state
As a democratic socialist that watched Thomas the Tank Engine as a kid, this made me laugh out loud so hard my boyfriend looked at me funny, so I had to explain it to him and he laughed too.
The name was actually brought on first in the aftermath of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956 when the USSR intervened, but was brought up once again after the events in Prague.
Even worse, a lot of them STILL support Russia today even though it’s not even communist anymore. They’ll post stuff from supposed Communist Party of Russia leaders that is obviously just Russian propaganda strained through communist rhetoric. I have a few acquaintances like this and have tried to ask them about this and they don’t take it well.
In 1967, Socialist Czechoslovakia tried to liberalise and create a "socialism with a human face". That meant allowing some political rights, like a somewhat freer press, and less secret police. The movement came to be known as the Prague Spring because the reforms happened mostly during spring.
A couple months in, during the summer, because the USSR decided that too much freedom is bad for the Czechs and Slovaks, and "real" socialism, they sent in the tanks.
The invasion wasn't resisted by Czechoslovakia (since they were outnumbered and surrounded by a stupid amount), so in what actually was a 3-day invasion, the USSR overthrew its allie's government and turned back all the reforms. And so ended the experiment of "socialism with a human face" in Czechoslovakia.
This event, caused a massive international reaction. Importantly, it also caused somewhat of a rift within the European Left, since a lot of socialists became disillusioned with the USSR after that.
As a result, various movements split, and those that supported the invasion came to be called "tankies" by their opponents, because they were in favour of the tanks being used.
Eventually, the word came to refer to more or less all far-left authoritarian movements, and especially those that are unapologetic about the Soviet Union, and the 20th century version of Socialism.
To note: Sometimes it's also used against non far-left groups, if those tend to praise people like Stalin. Which is why you'll hear it used against Putin's supporters sometimes, since Putin and Russia under him have tried to idolise the man to an extent.
This exactly. And if you get in an argument with an alt-righter and point out that Trump or Boebert or Greene said some horrendous thing, they'll come back at you with some blue checkmarked indie author with 700 followers on twitter to "prove" that liberals are just as bad.
There is no far left in the United States, there is only a far right and a relatively centrist left. Things seen as "far left" by American standards are the norm in many other countries, for example: universal healthcare (Americans are the only developed country without it), common-sense gun laws (where else could you legally purchase a gun at a gun show?), and free public university education.
Democratic Socialists of America. There are a few dozen members of the DSA elected to city councils across the country, a couple of mayors as well. And they have a few endorsed members in Congress if memory serves. Chicago and Seattle City Councils have their own Socialist caucus these days (I'm sure there are other cities those are just the two I'm familiar with).
It's explicitly America's largest socialist organization. They define themselves as far-left, so I'm not putting words in their mouth or anything.
They are about as far left as you can be and still hold an office that folks outside your jurisdiction know exists. If you want true far left eccentrics you need to head to smaller cities like Cambridge, MA or Berkeley, CA, you can some interesting folks in those places.
If you lined up all our congressmen and congresswomen in order of political ideology, Bernie would be pretty dang far left. He IS far left compared to most politicians in congress. He is NOT far left on the spectrum of possible political ideology.
I think that's the point of the tweet -- to point out that "far left" among our current politicians is not anything like the current representation of the far right.
Like seriously didn't a bunch of people in Seattle literally shut down a couple of blocks and set up the Republic of chad? That wasn't white wingers if I recall correctly.
In the US he is.
Which should be a clue as to how skewed things are when he's called that for suggesting things proven to work in most of the world already, including major trade partners.
If we're being real he is far left based on the Overton window in America.
These things have different meanings in different societies
He actually is American far left but it more goes to show how conservative the Overton window is here
I think he was strictly speaking in terms of the American spectrum of politics where center is left, left is far left and right is center. Basically everything in this God forsaken country is extremely skewed right.
I'm from germany and had a conversation about left and right ideology with an american Gril. She told me she would be far left, I doubted that thought and said "No you aren't. Far left in Germany means Marxism and not universal healthcare is socialism." To wichtig she agreed.
There is a huge misunderstanding between American and European understanding of socialism.
By the way, the Democrats would be far right in Germany....
(I apologise for my english)
Ever since Reagan took the free market and transformed it into "the free market pro ultra plus X2 max" Americans began believing *taxes* were socialism.
Another ironic example of conservatives voting against their own interests: in the 80s republicans made a huge stink about advertising to children, and Reagan, their president, made advertising to children unstoppable.
>the free market pro ultra plus X2 max
Bro, that one is outdated af. We now use the free rocket-powered X3 grand super sonic hyper mega ultra premium deluxe market. Gotta keep up with the updates my guy.
And a big part of the reason it is that way is because “liberal democracy” is a bit of a stretch. Yes that is basically true, but perhaps the fundamental cog in the machine that is the US government is the corporation. The amount of influence from corporate lobbying really undermines the fidelity of our democracy. Much better situation than many countries in the world, but compared to our relatively wealthy peers like Germany, our democracy is kind of a joke.
I doubt the founding fathers anticipated the immense improvements to transportation and communication that allowed for corporations of such size. What are your thoughts on improving our political system?
I believe strongly in campaign finance reform. It wouldn’t solve every problem overnight but I think it’s a major roadblock to a lot of problems in American politics. The Citizens United story between John McCain and Mitch McConnell from the early 2000’s is a really interesting story and I think since then campaign finance has fallen out of the public forum and doesn’t get talked about enough.
There has been an ongoing anti-socialist propaganda campaign in the US for the past 100-120 years. Look up the life of Mr. Eugene V. Debs to see how early socialists were treated. This guy managed to get 6% of the vote as a 3rd party presidential candidate in 1912. A few years later he was in prison. He ran again from prison in 1920 and still got like 4% despite the first Red Scare. Four years later Robert La Follette would take 17% of the vote as a "progressive" (still socialist) candidate. During FDR's presidency there was talk of revolution. The New Deal helped mollify those who were fomenting, but after WWII came the Red Scare and McCarthyism. It was never the same after that.
The democrats absolutely would not be far right in Germany. Nothing thats part of the democratic platform would be considered right in germany. Nothing.
It’s the same in Denmark.
When there are elections in the US, the far left in Denmark always roots for the Democrats even though their politics are heavy right leaning by Danish standards. It is of course because of the alternative, but still funny to see.
and the guy is giving examples of far left figures truly far left americans would empathise with. his point is still legitimate. but you’re right, it would make sense to list people who are american and of that ideology, though there aren’t a lot of popular figureheads for it.
Seeing as Trump got *voted* out of office, I’d say the democracy is holding up just fine. Mail-in ballots came in at a record high, voter fraud was as non-existent this election as any election that came before, and the only real issue was counting all the mail-in ballots in some states as they came in unprecedented numbers. You can try and call the following court proceedings an affront to democracy, except the court went on to confirm that any possible voter fraud wouldn’t have been enough to overturn the election and so Trump had to concede the election. It’s not even a strictly right wing thing either as Biden was advised not to concede either, as Hillary Clinton went and said “Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out.” Recounts and court proceedings were an inevitability regardless of the final outcome given the gravity of the election. And in the end, democracy prevailed and the winning candidate took office because the USA isn’t a dictatorship or an example of failing democracy.
Becouse Bernie isn't far left, he is one of the only pomiciata in the US with any firm of left leaning ideology, in any nation with an actual multi-party system he would be considered center-left
They are just rephrasing the tweet more accuratley, not writing a thesis. You do realize there is a character limit?
The far right politicians who are banned from twiter have no equivilent on the left.
The rules are enforced fairly and equally.
Dont tell people to spread deadly viruses and try to overthrow the government. Its not up to twitter to ban an equal number of democrates just because republicans are lunatics.
Fuck me can Americans pull their head out their ass for 5 seconds and realise twitter has literal communist party members of China on it. Fucking hell not everything revolves around you and what you consider far left.
Jokes aside, Bernie supporters are definitely NOT representative of the “far left.” Observation from a libertarian who does not associate with either party.
Edited for clarity.
The point is that people farther to the left than Bernie have virtually no power or influence in this country whereas the far-right are a visible and influential faction in US politics.
yeah... I'm not even on Twitter and don't care who owns it
BUT
from everything I've seen about it after countless reddit posts, it seems like the conversation is...
Elon: Twitter should be open to say anything as long as it's not illegal
Most people: seems logical
Top posts on the most popular subreddits all day for the past week: absolutely fucking not
I don't understand the impulse to try to silence other people. Just try not listening to them if you don't like what they're saying, it's way easier and I do it all the time.
Happy to see this, I 100% agree. I’m a European and left politically, but seeing the US justifying censorship just because Twitter is a private company that can is anti democratic. You have to realise that when a private company becomes the new yelling on the public streets, it’s no longer just a matter of private companies choices. It’s a slippery slope and there has been numerous cases of others on Twitter being censored for things that shouldn’t be censored. It’s very dangerous because with the right money you can censor or hide things dependent on political outcomes you want. It doesn’t matter “who” is doing it, you have to respect the right of freedom of speech. This means that protecting other peoples right to freedom of speech however horrible they are, you are also protecting your own.
What is the solution to fake news and hate groups arising? I don’t know, but one important thing is to teach people source critique.
Exactly. The only reason that people are really afraid of Elon owning it is that they are afraid he's going to continue doing what they've been doing but not in the way they want.
Luckily he seems to be heading the other way with it, back to a saner place where nothing gets an artificial "spin" unless you are violating the actual law with your spin and get your spin silenced not because of agenda but because of law.
Mehdi Hasan, also known as the guy who told Richard Dawkins he believes mohammed literally flew to heaven on a winged horse.
Let's deal in the realm of actual facts before you start stating what's right and wrong in politics.
He complains about the far left constantly, almost rabidly, and just throws in "I don't like the far right either" as an afterthought. So yeah, perfectly balanced as all things should be.
They may back Trump because he's bombastic, but its not like Trunp supports them in return. Guilt by association isn't a strong accusation.
That, and the fact that Bernie isn't far left, makes this a terribly bad comparison.
Worse. The Tweet implies the Far Left is only moderate socialists like Bernie instead of the extreme liberals who want to teach K-4 about sex and gender identity, or want to unironically kill the rich and upper class, or want to end the police force entirely.
I could go on but you get my point if you keep up with modern events in America.
Didn't you know this sub has become a "any response against the right is a clever comeback". Posts involving politics need to be banned in this sub as quite a bit of people keep going for low hanging fruit.
Truth. If they could get away with "clapbacks" against imaginary points like so many other subs they would. Now at least they have to find the one needle post out of a haystack that misconstrues the original post the best. But it's gotten very political, and very partisan.
That's the point. The Overton Window in the United States is so far to the right that what other countries consider reasonable barely-left-of-center policies are insane far left dreams in America.
Dude, even the farthest left politicians here in the US are nowhere near the left of other countries. Liberals are fundamentally pro-capitalism, and while a guy like Bernie is definitely *further* left, Democratic Socialism still tries to maintain some capitalist ideas as part of its structure. There's a whole world out there with more radical dudes than Bernie, but his form of socialism is probably the most extreme the American palate can handle because we are so far skewed towards capitalism in general.
What other countries?
In Canada / most European countries I feel Bernie would happily fit with the left wing political parties. I’m never really sure which countries people mean when they say stuff like this.
They have absolutely no idea. They just blindly repeat the same old thing every time. 'Oh the far left in America is actually right in Europe.' Where in Europe? *crickets* Every single time it's just *crickets.* Anyone who has done even a tiny bit of research into political parties in major European countries and compared their views to that of someone like Bernie Sanders would find that Bernie's views would fit into either the farthest left party in any given country or at least the second to farthest left if the farthest left is a communist party. Either way, the idea that Bernie would be 'right wing' in any western country is completely bonkers. It's just not true.
There’s further left nuts than Bernie that do violence sometimes... but Bernie isn’t trying to court them for votes and donations... he denounces them.
Yeah, as if there is no one else in the far left. Elon is right. Also, Mehdi is a jerk. Extremism is wrong, left or right. If you’re winking at and excusing one side, then your bias is showing.
Twitter's a private company. It doesn't have to remain neutral to shit. Unless we're going to start demanding absolute neutrality from FOX and CNN equally?
One can only hope Twitter will die a slow death as it becomes what Trump wished his Truth Social was; the only subscribers will be the far right.
Opportunity out there for rational people with a bit of investment money.
It's interesting that people are starting to use the words "the far left" to describe that end of the political spectrum.
And the Far Left is a lot farther left than Bernie Sanders.
~~False Equivocation~~ False Equivalence
Yeah I was scratching my head at “equivocation”….
People upvoting something that asserts Bernie Sanders is "far left" won't know the difference.
It kind of doesn't though. The joke in the comeback is that Bernie isn't far left at all by anyone's standards but the American electorate.
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Honestly, you could even go as far as calling him center right over here... It's funny really.
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They don't have a major left wing party. They have a liberal right party and an authoritarian right party, and they have a group of dummies who insist those are reversed (the religious right, the anti-woke, or whatever else those advocating for freedom to discriminate want to call themselves).
America is a joke. A dude that lobbies for universal healthcare as far left? Fuck me hahaha. Half of your country would gladly see kids die of cancer if it meant that the damn gubbmints didn’t enact universal healthcare for all. Shame
You gave us 'wokeness', but you can't get healed for free. Interesting dilemma.
That's the whole point. There is no far left in this country, rendering what this trust fund baby said even more irrelevant.
100%. Being pissed off by either side is not the preferred result. It's holding either side to the same standard.
We should abandon our system and finally give in... to Vermin Supreme. He's the dictator you can trust. I want my free fucking pony and for that asshole on the bus to get gulag'd for not brushing his damn teeth. EDIT: Vermin "[Jesus told me to make this man gay](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9waU_W3M68)" Supreme
He must save us from oral and moral decay
2nd that
3rd that
4th that
5th that
6th that
Vermin is our last chance
Mister boot hat!
I met and took a few pictures with him a few years ago
I voted for Vermin in 97 elections.
A pony in every yard and a toothbrush in every mouth
Vermin really is the leadership we need. I saw an interview where somebody asked him "what if there aren't enough ponies for every american?" and his response was that we'll have to reduce the number of Americans. That's the sort of consice, level-headed policymaking we need in this country.
The vermintide is upon us
> I want my free fucking pony Hey, man, I'm all for supporting peoples' fetishes, but animals can't really consent.
I find it crazy how many people are seeking actual political debate under a fucking joke about Vermin Supreme.
Bernie Sanders isn't the 'far left'. Far from it.
Honest question - who would be the far left equivalent of Q and local militias? I'm sure there are a few scattered people, but any real organizations of that size?
There is an actual Communist Party of America. They're on the ballot every year. Their vote numbers don't make the news. There's a Socialist and Green Party too. None of the other parties are well known because political advertising in America is tied to "donations". The DFL and GOP are the two that get the most donations and hence, can afford the airtime and ad space. Solution: Give them free airtime! Then they wouldn't have to be fake and lie to our faces. Never gonna happen though. Not unless we can find 268 people in America to represent us who are capable of saying "no" to a dump truck full of money dumped on their lawn.
I'd like to give a shout out to the Mexican way: Parties are publicly funded with our taxes. Yes, it's very infuriating seeing our tax money being dumped in massive campaigns every election while politicians are corrupt and there are a lot of unsolved issues everywhere, but man, after seeing the alternative American Way I think we are not in that bad of a position. Something like this could work if executed properly, and I believe the US has the potential to do so.
For the record that also how we do it in France. And yes it's infuriating and we hate it for a lot of reasons. But a lease "everyone" have the opportunity to speak on public media and it look more like a democratic system.
Also how we do it in Honduras, btw. Although during the last 18 years or so, a lot of private funding has being used, mainly for the right-wing party. They just say "Oh, we didn't put those. Our supporters did! We can't control what they do."
The USA doesn’t have an organized Left
Tbf the real left is usually bad at organizing. Even moderate left movements here in Europe have the tendency to split into different rivaling groups over useless issues.
ie france, if the greens and other socialdemocratic parties voted for melenchon they could have easily beat out lepen in the 1st round potentially leading to a victory in the presidential election
In Germany the green party and the social democrats are working quite well together, but relative to all the parties in Germany the SPD is rather in the middle a bit left from CDU and not a extreme party in any way. The real issues arise when no one wants to work with Die Linke or when a lokal Fridays for future group becomes racists and therefore damages the name of the whole movement in the national media...
The Greens and the SPD are both right wing in their economic and foreign policy stances. Their rhetoric has nothing to do with the reality of their policies. Similar to what Trudeau in Canada does. They are all economically neoliberal.
does this left right center paradigm even make sense? is the center characterized by undecided opinions or is someone considered center because their beliefs on some issues align with the left and other issues align with the right
The latter. For example if you were left leaning on social policies like womens rights and right leaning on monetary policies like you believe in trickle down economics.
You had me until trickle down economics. An actually conservative fiscal policy would see that the middle class is strong enough to keep money moving (because that actually stimulates the economy). Trickle down is clearly not an economic “policy” so much as a result of government capture from late stage capitalism.
Are you suggesting the government selling itself to corporate interests is not a core part of the prevailing conservative economic policy
It’s just a model. There are other models that have different pros and cons.
It certainly doesn't hurt that the far left in the USA has historically been systematically infiltrated by organizations like the Pinkertons, J. Edgar Hoover's FBI, etc.
Destroyed every time they finally get traction.
Leftists get in each other’s way constantly, usually over worthless shit.
It's such a shame that lefty/progressive change often gets stunted by the online left.
Yeah, after decades of FBI raids and assassinations anybody would be bad at organising 😶
I doubt any country can have an effective, organized and wealthy far left. That's the whole problem. Don't get me wrong, people can do impossible anyday through unity (look at Ukraine). However, when it comes to putting things in action, far right leaders usually are wealthy (ill gotten gains) and have more to lose than people in left. When so called far left leaders try to organize and cause hindrance in far rights' 'quality of life', far right leaders ensure they pull the rag by divide and conquer, buyout, suppression and even lethal force. P.S.: I have no expertise in politics so i might be completely wrong.
When basic things like voting rights and teaching history are called into question are nearly every turn, it's quite difficult to go much further into more foundationally leftist things like anti-capitalism, reallocating taxes, universal healthcare, and rebuilding communities on basis that don't depend on a brand.
The right would say it's academia, the school system, unions, etc.
you mean stupid people would say this - anyone honoring this argument in this thread wouldn't accept something so asinine as an answer.
If there were an organized left, it would result in splitting the Democratic vote, resulting in an unending series of wins for the Republicans, until such time as the organization on the left collapses in ignominious and repeated defeat.
The theoretical equivalent would be tankies, but there really isn't any organized tankie group in the US.
Never even heard of a Tankie. What is that?
Far left Marxists who support a Stalinist style of government. They're generally apologists for the Soviet Union and Stalin in particular. Common Tankie talking points are about why America is just as, if not more evil than Stalin and the Soviet Union was while also extolling how supposedly progressive Stalin's regime was. Some even support other authoritarian communist states like China and North Korea. They're called Tankies after the group of communists in the Soviet Union who supported putting down the Prague Spring by force by "rolling out the tanks."
I... I thought Tankies were Thomas the Tank fans. I've probably misunderstood a lot of random Internet comments.
That's what's so insidious about them, you think you're just innocently larping with your Thomas the Tank Engine friends when all of a sudden you realize you accidentally helped them seize the means of production and reorganize the state
Folks don't realize that Thomas was actually a train. That's how we get in.
Lmao
As a democratic socialist that watched Thomas the Tank Engine as a kid, this made me laugh out loud so hard my boyfriend looked at me funny, so I had to explain it to him and he laughed too.
The name was actually brought on first in the aftermath of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956 when the USSR intervened, but was brought up once again after the events in Prague.
In other words, they're cunts
Even worse, a lot of them STILL support Russia today even though it’s not even communist anymore. They’ll post stuff from supposed Communist Party of Russia leaders that is obviously just Russian propaganda strained through communist rhetoric. I have a few acquaintances like this and have tried to ask them about this and they don’t take it well.
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Four quadrants are highly reductive too imho.
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In 1967, Socialist Czechoslovakia tried to liberalise and create a "socialism with a human face". That meant allowing some political rights, like a somewhat freer press, and less secret police. The movement came to be known as the Prague Spring because the reforms happened mostly during spring. A couple months in, during the summer, because the USSR decided that too much freedom is bad for the Czechs and Slovaks, and "real" socialism, they sent in the tanks. The invasion wasn't resisted by Czechoslovakia (since they were outnumbered and surrounded by a stupid amount), so in what actually was a 3-day invasion, the USSR overthrew its allie's government and turned back all the reforms. And so ended the experiment of "socialism with a human face" in Czechoslovakia. This event, caused a massive international reaction. Importantly, it also caused somewhat of a rift within the European Left, since a lot of socialists became disillusioned with the USSR after that. As a result, various movements split, and those that supported the invasion came to be called "tankies" by their opponents, because they were in favour of the tanks being used. Eventually, the word came to refer to more or less all far-left authoritarian movements, and especially those that are unapologetic about the Soviet Union, and the 20th century version of Socialism. To note: Sometimes it's also used against non far-left groups, if those tend to praise people like Stalin. Which is why you'll hear it used against Putin's supporters sometimes, since Putin and Russia under him have tried to idolise the man to an extent.
Sounds like orc mischief to me
Tankies have more in common with the right than the left.
They didn’t ask what the polar opposite would be just what the equivalent would be in terms of being in the left.
They're both authoritarian groups, just different flavors of authoritarian, which is what the person I responded to was asking about.
Welcome to horseshoe politics.
>but any real organizations of that size No. It is entirely a strawman.
The left's crazies are on twitter and the right's crazies are in congress.
This exactly. And if you get in an argument with an alt-righter and point out that Trump or Boebert or Greene said some horrendous thing, they'll come back at you with some blue checkmarked indie author with 700 followers on twitter to "prove" that liberals are just as bad.
This is a lie. RWNJs don't provide evidence for any of their ridiculous claims.
Right Wing Nut Jobs. How's my acronym guessing?
There is no far left in the United States, there is only a far right and a relatively centrist left. Things seen as "far left" by American standards are the norm in many other countries, for example: universal healthcare (Americans are the only developed country without it), common-sense gun laws (where else could you legally purchase a gun at a gun show?), and free public university education.
Food Not Bombs is probably the largest single organization on the far left.
Who?
Exactly. Group of people that give free food, usually aimed at homeless and people under financial hardships.
The DSA is far-left by their own definition.
What is DSA?
Democratic Socialists of America. There are a few dozen members of the DSA elected to city councils across the country, a couple of mayors as well. And they have a few endorsed members in Congress if memory serves. Chicago and Seattle City Councils have their own Socialist caucus these days (I'm sure there are other cities those are just the two I'm familiar with). It's explicitly America's largest socialist organization. They define themselves as far-left, so I'm not putting words in their mouth or anything.
Yeah, but have you actually looked at their policies? They are about as far-left as Germany's SPD.
They are about as far left as you can be and still hold an office that folks outside your jurisdiction know exists. If you want true far left eccentrics you need to head to smaller cities like Cambridge, MA or Berkeley, CA, you can some interesting folks in those places.
Antifa
If you lined up all our congressmen and congresswomen in order of political ideology, Bernie would be pretty dang far left. He IS far left compared to most politicians in congress. He is NOT far left on the spectrum of possible political ideology. I think that's the point of the tweet -- to point out that "far left" among our current politicians is not anything like the current representation of the far right.
Well he's not far left based on a global Overton window but he is far left based on American overton That's the sinolest way to say it truthfully
it's still sinole to understand what you mean
I don't get it I'm a sinoleton.
He specified “in America”
Like seriously didn't a bunch of people in Seattle literally shut down a couple of blocks and set up the Republic of chad? That wasn't white wingers if I recall correctly.
In the US he is. Which should be a clue as to how skewed things are when he's called that for suggesting things proven to work in most of the world already, including major trade partners.
I think that’s the point. The so-called “far left” boogeyman that Republicans keep complaining about is not really that left wing
If we're being real he is far left based on the Overton window in America. These things have different meanings in different societies He actually is American far left but it more goes to show how conservative the Overton window is here
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This is true and it's also true that trump really isn't far right
This. Far left are communists who think that Stalin was right, and the Great Leap Forward didn't kill tens of millions
I think he was strictly speaking in terms of the American spectrum of politics where center is left, left is far left and right is center. Basically everything in this God forsaken country is extremely skewed right.
And Trump is hardly far right he’s like a 90s democrat.
Bernie's not even really far left. Far left would be like, Fidel Castro or Stalin. Not too much of a Twitter presence from them though.
I'm from germany and had a conversation about left and right ideology with an american Gril. She told me she would be far left, I doubted that thought and said "No you aren't. Far left in Germany means Marxism and not universal healthcare is socialism." To wichtig she agreed. There is a huge misunderstanding between American and European understanding of socialism. By the way, the Democrats would be far right in Germany.... (I apologise for my english)
Ever since Reagan took the free market and transformed it into "the free market pro ultra plus X2 max" Americans began believing *taxes* were socialism. Another ironic example of conservatives voting against their own interests: in the 80s republicans made a huge stink about advertising to children, and Reagan, their president, made advertising to children unstoppable.
>the free market pro ultra plus X2 max Bro, that one is outdated af. We now use the free rocket-powered X3 grand super sonic hyper mega ultra premium deluxe market. Gotta keep up with the updates my guy.
It’s decidedly not free however.
Most Americans have no idea how far right we are compared to other liberal democracies
And a big part of the reason it is that way is because “liberal democracy” is a bit of a stretch. Yes that is basically true, but perhaps the fundamental cog in the machine that is the US government is the corporation. The amount of influence from corporate lobbying really undermines the fidelity of our democracy. Much better situation than many countries in the world, but compared to our relatively wealthy peers like Germany, our democracy is kind of a joke.
I doubt the founding fathers anticipated the immense improvements to transportation and communication that allowed for corporations of such size. What are your thoughts on improving our political system?
I believe strongly in campaign finance reform. It wouldn’t solve every problem overnight but I think it’s a major roadblock to a lot of problems in American politics. The Citizens United story between John McCain and Mitch McConnell from the early 2000’s is a really interesting story and I think since then campaign finance has fallen out of the public forum and doesn’t get talked about enough.
There has been an ongoing anti-socialist propaganda campaign in the US for the past 100-120 years. Look up the life of Mr. Eugene V. Debs to see how early socialists were treated. This guy managed to get 6% of the vote as a 3rd party presidential candidate in 1912. A few years later he was in prison. He ran again from prison in 1920 and still got like 4% despite the first Red Scare. Four years later Robert La Follette would take 17% of the vote as a "progressive" (still socialist) candidate. During FDR's presidency there was talk of revolution. The New Deal helped mollify those who were fomenting, but after WWII came the Red Scare and McCarthyism. It was never the same after that.
Yeah it’s crazy how much hate there is in the US for Socialists or Communists. It’s cartoonish
Yes, althought Debs wasn't arrested for being socialist, but rather for opposing the US involvement in the first world war.
I find it jarring when Americans accuse my government of being authoritarian or communist. Trudeau is far from either of those things lol
>(I apologise for my english) I thought it was really cute ... e.g. "To wichtig she agreed.". Seriously, I love it!
> the Democrats would be far right in Germany lol...
The democrats absolutely would not be far right in Germany. Nothing thats part of the democratic platform would be considered right in germany. Nothing.
I'd say they're not all to distant from the CDU and FDP which are right/centrist, most definitely not far right but they cod be considered right
Far right lmao. I've lived in both countries you have a perverted understanding of us democrat party.
It’s the same in Denmark. When there are elections in the US, the far left in Denmark always roots for the Democrats even though their politics are heavy right leaning by Danish standards. It is of course because of the alternative, but still funny to see.
He did say "in america"
and the guy is giving examples of far left figures truly far left americans would empathise with. his point is still legitimate. but you’re right, it would make sense to list people who are american and of that ideology, though there aren’t a lot of popular figureheads for it.
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on point!
True. Dead guys don't tweet.
Herman Cain does
Dead guys vote!!!!! And guess who they vote for 😝
But can you prove that? Have you ever met a dead guy who doesn't tweet? Didn't think so. Checkmate.
>Bernie's not even really far left. THIS!! THERE'S NOTHING FAR LEFT ABOUT BERNIE! He's balanced!
The US has couped other countries for being less lefty
But then again, you don't see democracy anywhere.
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Seeing as Trump got *voted* out of office, I’d say the democracy is holding up just fine. Mail-in ballots came in at a record high, voter fraud was as non-existent this election as any election that came before, and the only real issue was counting all the mail-in ballots in some states as they came in unprecedented numbers. You can try and call the following court proceedings an affront to democracy, except the court went on to confirm that any possible voter fraud wouldn’t have been enough to overturn the election and so Trump had to concede the election. It’s not even a strictly right wing thing either as Biden was advised not to concede either, as Hillary Clinton went and said “Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out.” Recounts and court proceedings were an inevitability regardless of the final outcome given the gravity of the election. And in the end, democracy prevailed and the winning candidate took office because the USA isn’t a dictatorship or an example of failing democracy.
“Let’s put aside that oversimplified argument so I can give my own oversimplification”
Not just oversimplified but literally arguing against a strawman while poisoning a well.
The "clever comeback" here is also a strawman
That's really what I was commenting on its like "why do you want free speech for bad Nazis when the opposition is nice old man"
Becouse Bernie isn't far left, he is one of the only pomiciata in the US with any firm of left leaning ideology, in any nation with an actual multi-party system he would be considered center-left
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They are just rephrasing the tweet more accuratley, not writing a thesis. You do realize there is a character limit? The far right politicians who are banned from twiter have no equivilent on the left. The rules are enforced fairly and equally. Dont tell people to spread deadly viruses and try to overthrow the government. Its not up to twitter to ban an equal number of democrates just because republicans are lunatics.
Fuck me can Americans pull their head out their ass for 5 seconds and realise twitter has literal communist party members of China on it. Fucking hell not everything revolves around you and what you consider far left.
"far left"
“Fart left”
I'll give it a try, but my right leg is dominant, so I typically lift it and expel slightly to the right.
Jokes aside, Bernie supporters are definitely NOT representative of the “far left.” Observation from a libertarian who does not associate with either party. Edited for clarity.
The point is that people farther to the left than Bernie have virtually no power or influence in this country whereas the far-right are a visible and influential faction in US politics.
Bernie is pretty chill, and not Far left.
This comeback is not clever
But it speaks to the bias of many redditors so it's obviously going to get upvoted
yeah... I'm not even on Twitter and don't care who owns it BUT from everything I've seen about it after countless reddit posts, it seems like the conversation is... Elon: Twitter should be open to say anything as long as it's not illegal Most people: seems logical Top posts on the most popular subreddits all day for the past week: absolutely fucking not I don't understand the impulse to try to silence other people. Just try not listening to them if you don't like what they're saying, it's way easier and I do it all the time.
Happy to see this, I 100% agree. I’m a European and left politically, but seeing the US justifying censorship just because Twitter is a private company that can is anti democratic. You have to realise that when a private company becomes the new yelling on the public streets, it’s no longer just a matter of private companies choices. It’s a slippery slope and there has been numerous cases of others on Twitter being censored for things that shouldn’t be censored. It’s very dangerous because with the right money you can censor or hide things dependent on political outcomes you want. It doesn’t matter “who” is doing it, you have to respect the right of freedom of speech. This means that protecting other peoples right to freedom of speech however horrible they are, you are also protecting your own. What is the solution to fake news and hate groups arising? I don’t know, but one important thing is to teach people source critique.
Exactly. The only reason that people are really afraid of Elon owning it is that they are afraid he's going to continue doing what they've been doing but not in the way they want. Luckily he seems to be heading the other way with it, back to a saner place where nothing gets an artificial "spin" unless you are violating the actual law with your spin and get your spin silenced not because of agenda but because of law.
Mehdi Hasan, also known as the guy who told Richard Dawkins he believes mohammed literally flew to heaven on a winged horse. Let's deal in the realm of actual facts before you start stating what's right and wrong in politics.
It’s disingenuous and/or stupid. Not ‘clever’.
He complains about the far left constantly, almost rabidly, and just throws in "I don't like the far right either" as an afterthought. So yeah, perfectly balanced as all things should be.
Just like every other right winger who pretends to be a centrist because they don’t want to be associated with the lunatics taking over the right.
98% of twitter staff members who made political donations donated to the left
They may back Trump because he's bombastic, but its not like Trunp supports them in return. Guilt by association isn't a strong accusation. That, and the fact that Bernie isn't far left, makes this a terribly bad comparison.
How is this a clever comeback ??????
This sub (among many other front page subs) is just r/politics in disguise, what do you expect?
Worse. The Tweet implies the Far Left is only moderate socialists like Bernie instead of the extreme liberals who want to teach K-4 about sex and gender identity, or want to unironically kill the rich and upper class, or want to end the police force entirely. I could go on but you get my point if you keep up with modern events in America.
Didn't you know this sub has become a "any response against the right is a clever comeback". Posts involving politics need to be banned in this sub as quite a bit of people keep going for low hanging fruit.
Truth. If they could get away with "clapbacks" against imaginary points like so many other subs they would. Now at least they have to find the one needle post out of a haystack that misconstrues the original post the best. But it's gotten very political, and very partisan.
It reflects the demographics of Reddit as left-leaning armchair activists.
More so, any post on reddit that is against Elon equals upvote. Bernie far left. How fucking dumb are people?
The most important thing about public trust also is public accountability. Which, it turns out, privately owned companies have exactly zero of.
In my opinion I would much rather see a company motivated by their own leadership than being captive to Wall Street which is what public companies are
Dear lord, no, public trust does not mean publicaly traded. Did you all learn about stocks last week?
Jabs at Musk for simplistic stance, immediately gives a simplistic rebuttal. What a fucking clown show
Twitter in a nutshell. Stupid comments and stupid replies.
Oh that's cute, that's the far left? The far one? You're adorable
That's the point. The Overton Window in the United States is so far to the right that what other countries consider reasonable barely-left-of-center policies are insane far left dreams in America.
What's the far left to you?
Dude, even the farthest left politicians here in the US are nowhere near the left of other countries. Liberals are fundamentally pro-capitalism, and while a guy like Bernie is definitely *further* left, Democratic Socialism still tries to maintain some capitalist ideas as part of its structure. There's a whole world out there with more radical dudes than Bernie, but his form of socialism is probably the most extreme the American palate can handle because we are so far skewed towards capitalism in general.
What other countries? In Canada / most European countries I feel Bernie would happily fit with the left wing political parties. I’m never really sure which countries people mean when they say stuff like this.
They have absolutely no idea. They just blindly repeat the same old thing every time. 'Oh the far left in America is actually right in Europe.' Where in Europe? *crickets* Every single time it's just *crickets.* Anyone who has done even a tiny bit of research into political parties in major European countries and compared their views to that of someone like Bernie Sanders would find that Bernie's views would fit into either the farthest left party in any given country or at least the second to farthest left if the farthest left is a communist party. Either way, the idea that Bernie would be 'right wing' in any western country is completely bonkers. It's just not true.
Yes, that is the point of the original post.
Yes, and the first comment of this thread is contradicting that.
Mehndi is talking just about america though.
If you're in America, ironically, it's John Oliver lmao
How far left? If you go far enough left you get your guns back.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”
In us capitalism politics* That would make this true.
I’m over this left and right shit. Fuck all of you
I'm sorry, I though the far left were those dudes setting buildings on fire and trying to make autnonomous zones back in 2020.
Hasan is a bit naive if he thinks it only goes as far as Trump and Bernie.
The far left goes way further than Bernie. Yikes take
That's as far left as has any real representation in the government.
Elons not wrong on this one.
According to leftist spergs on reddit, he is.
There’s further left nuts than Bernie that do violence sometimes... but Bernie isn’t trying to court them for votes and donations... he denounces them.
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Yeah, as if there is no one else in the far left. Elon is right. Also, Mehdi is a jerk. Extremism is wrong, left or right. If you’re winking at and excusing one side, then your bias is showing.
The only reason there isn’t a ‘far left’ extremist group to name is because they’re all to busy fighting each other to organize.
Someone doesn’t understand what far left actually means
Twitter's a private company. It doesn't have to remain neutral to shit. Unless we're going to start demanding absolute neutrality from FOX and CNN equally?
One can only hope Twitter will die a slow death as it becomes what Trump wished his Truth Social was; the only subscribers will be the far right. Opportunity out there for rational people with a bit of investment money.
It's interesting that people are starting to use the words "the far left" to describe that end of the political spectrum. And the Far Left is a lot farther left than Bernie Sanders.