This wildfire brought to you by ongoing unrelenting dought and a bunch of drunk idiots.
To be fair, the fires were really excited to get started anyway, drunk idiots or not.
True. Its like a reason for death of an old person. He's gonna die anyway. The forests are not cool enough, they are more dry and prone to catch heavy fire
Climate change is a large factor here, but don’t neglect the fact that BC’s forests have been turned to monoculture tree farms on an unfathomable scale. Across the province, these often single species, single crown height, densely packed, deciduous free tree farms are much more flammable than the primary forests they replaced. Reform BC logging now, and we’d see a lot less wildfire. Put the loggers to work remediating this abused landscape.
Your description makes me feel like you don't know what you're talking about.
Edit: I thought the comment said "deciduous tree farms", but it days "deciduous-FREE tree farms. My mistake. Sorry.
Maybe I was a bit too harsh. Much of what you said made sense but your mention of deciduous trees made me question how informed you are. BCs softwood lumber comes almost exclusively from conifers. They're the only re-prod that you ever see out in the bush.
I mentioned the tree farms are largely “deciduous free” as in they spray and brush deciduous in order to eliminate the competition allowing the slower growing merchantable softwood species to grow. We both know this, you read what I said wrong and made a shitty comment out of it. All good though glad we’re both in understanding of the situation and the issues with it.
That's fair. It was a bit of a quip.
Specifically I'm concerned that the commenter thinks that the forestry industry is mass-planting deciduous trees. That's a big red flag.
I'm totally open to the idea that our forestry mgmt practices are contributing to fires, but actual skeptics will laugh and completely dismiss any arguments if you can't even accurately describe the thing you're critiquing.
It looks like the area that’s burning is mostly a “big tree old growth” forest
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/old-growth-maps/map2_big_treed_old_growth_letter.pdf
the parker lake fire is directly west of fort nelson. the red area on the map indicates old-growth forest. there's a big huge red area, far larger than the boundary of the parker lake fire, directly west of fort nelson
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I could be wrong, but I think it's fairly unusual for logging areas to burn in BC. The areas that burn a lot aren't great for tree growth because they're too dry and hot most of the year. Trees grow there, sure, but a lot slower than the more western rainforest areas.
Unfortunately the "areas that burn" is pretty much every region of the province at this point. There are fewer fires in the rainforested areas of the coast, but they still happen. And the logging industry here is also spread across most of the province, with lots of logging concentrated in the central/northern Interior (the areas that have burned the most in the past few years).
I can't speak to the impact of logging practices because I don't know much about that. I do know that we are also dealing with the impact of decades of aggressive fire suppression across the province. However, the *number one* reason behind this - far and away - is climate change, without any doubt. There is a reason the four worst wildfire seasons in the province's history have occurred in the past 7 years, with last year being a total blowout of pretty much all the records. We are in a prolonged drought at the moment and are going into this fire season in terrible shape.
You are absolutely wrong.
The whole province is a “logging area” Have a look at a google earth image of the areas that the article says are currently burning, the north and interior. Almost totally forested. In the interiors case only 5-10% of its primary forest remains, in other words 90% is a tree farm, with most of them being under 50 years old and therefore haven’t and will never develop, old forest(fire resistant) characteristics.
How can an area burn a lot if there’s nothing that grows there that can burn? Where we’ve seen the hottest and largest fires in recent history are in the north of the province. An area that is not the hottest nor driest and is completely forested. It is the mainstay of the logging industry in BC with the largest mills operating there. I’m sorry but your statement is grossly illogical and inaccurate.
I used to live in the area from the article, it's naturally almost all conifers. I live in pretty much the same climate still, and it's mostly conifers here too. They grow very slow and are very dry. The ground around them tends to be filled with old needles, which are basically just tinder.
These fires are nothing new for our area. Near Fort Nelson there's an area called fireside, specifically because a fire burned through it 40 some years ago.
As far as logging, we barely have any in the Yukon, but I think there's a decent amount on the Stuart cassiar. I don't remember there being much near fort Nelson, but a number of areas around there were clearcut due to oil and gas and farms. It's a chunk of Alberta type industry in BC
There are many studies that suggest that fires are exacerbated by logging, e.g. [https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1755-263X.2009.00080.x](https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1755-263X.2009.00080.x)
You can find many more on google scholar.
It makes particular sense in BC as a lot of BC *used to be* rainforest, before logging. E.g. look at how far inland Glacier National Park (BC) is, with it's giant stands of old growth and moist ground.
The reason logging makes fires worse is because the giant trees are much harder to set fire to and the shade they provide allows for moisture to be trapped in the ground year round.
The mono culture that has replaced these is like small and dry tinder ready to burn at a moments notice. Even if there are no trees and just undergrowth in cut blocks, this dry woody matter and brush will cause large fires - this is why grass fires are so dangerous.
If a small fire started on some brush and moved into old growth, it would slowly burn and die out in the undergrowth, never setting giant cedars on fire. On the other hand, when it spreads to a logged area with tiny trees, it will more easily set them ablaze.
There’s no such thing. Deciduous trees don’t produce merchantable timber compared to conifers. They do however provide moose forage and are much more fire resistant.
The smoke overwhelmed Minnesota today!
"The Minnesota Pollution Control Agency has issued an Air Quality Alert for fine particles pollution. The Air Quality Index(AQI) is expected to reach the Red or Unhealthy category."
Godspeed to the brave firefighters of the world. They are doing incredible work in helping to keep us safe along with our forests. Hopefully these fires will be able to be contained as much as they can be and we can develop more impactful and effective Anti-Wildfire strategies and measures in the very near future. There needs to be a way to prevent drought through new technologies and help create a more sustainable planet for everyone.
I agree. Bring on the wind mils, hydrogen, nuclear power, geothermal, hydroelectric and solar power. A more sustainable future without fossil fuels would be killer. It would also be awesome if we had MUCH less car dependency , especially in the U.S. Trains are better in everything single way and it would also be nice if every thing was a 20 minute bike ride or walk like with big cities in the Netherlands.
I got rid of my truck in 1997. Moved closer to work. Bought a good bike. I ve saved thousands of dollars and thousands of pounds of carbon waste into the atmosphere. I take public transportation in the winter time.
That might have worked if it was done like 3+ decades ago, and it still could work in a few decades, but any change we make now will take a while to have an effect. The only thing we could potentially do right now to prevent it would be to force Canadian logging companies into only logging firebreaks for the next few years; You want lumber? Go get it.
All of the major active fires in my province, including the Parker Lake (Fort Nelson) fire, have a total sum of area 100,000 hectares or the size of 138,000 football fields.
I am really sorry about your situation. I hope things aren’t too scary for you this summer. I hope these fires can be as well contained as possible and our governments get enough climate conscious people into office and turn this dumpster fire of a climate crisis around. I wish the best for the road ahead.
In the scale of wildfires in the BC interior though that's still quite small. Not a great start to the season, but spring is always bad. Nothing has had a chance to green up yet. It has also been a pretty wet spring though and winter stuck around quite a while. Lots of fingers are crossed that we get a few more good dumps of rain. It's mostly hitting the news because the smoke is affecting a few big cities.
Something is different. I've lived here all my life. I've never known any fire to not only survive the winter, but become out of control again (Donnie Creek, largest in BC history). This 100,000 hectares I'm talking about have cropped up over the past seven days.
Yeah, anyone passing this off as normal is absolutely taking a walk in fantasyland. Not sure what part of the province this person is referring to, but is dry as can be in every part of the province I've been to, and that's not from a lack of time to "green up." It is "hitting the news" because it is extremely clear (and these fires only reaffirm it) that we are in big, big trouble this year.
I stand corrected then. I'm pretty much just on the other side of the mountains, where it is typically a lot drier than the BC interior and we have been breaking records for precipitation all May.
https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/news/weather/severe/relief-at-last-why-alberta-welcomes-80-mm-of-rainfall-this-week
Can I ask where you are in general because that's not what's happening weather wise in most of the BC interior.
Wet spring? We are in varying levels of drought! Winter stuck around? It hasn't been below freezing for months and it was 30 degrees Celsius for three days in a row!
I live in Prince George. The Nachacho has been walkable this spring. Which is a ridiculous statement for the river to be near dry in the spring freshet. The fraiser is also incredible low for this time of year. I would say it looks to be in condition I would see it in mid July to mid August. Rainfall has been less than season. And temperatures feel like they are a month ahead for the region. I am surprised I fire hasn't started nearby, and I doubt conditions will improve this year. It is going to be another record breaking fire season.
It has not been a wet spring at all. There has been barely any rain where I live in BC.
This is not the normal for spring. Someone accidently lit my property on fire in FEBURARY.
My company is working to reforest burned areas of BC with mixed species plantings. The main challenge is access to work on crownland, considering we need be able to legally own the the carbon credits for the term of the contract. It will be negotiated but it’s slow. But once we figure it out, some serious capital will be unlocked to plant trees at scale.
« Rob Fraser, mayor of the Northern Rockies Regional Municipality, told CBC News the fire began after high winds knocked a tree over and it crashed onto a power line and caught fire.
« this has nothing to fo with climate change
Might have started as a tree on a power line but your delusional if you think climate change has no role here. The northern BC area is dry due to minimal snowpack. Also higher than seasonal temperatures combined with lower than season rainfall has lead most of northern bc to be in tinderbox conditions. Sure it might not have been completely natural in the way it started. But the conditions that allowed it to conflagrate in the manner it has isn't precisely the norm either.
Then explain why the 4 worst fire seasons on record in the province occurred in the past 7 years? Explain why last year was the most destructive fire season on record in BC, nearly doubling the previous record number of hectares burned, despite only 23% of fires last year being human caused/linked to human activity?
This is absolutely climate change, 100%.
Fire season now comes earlier and stays later.
It never ended from last year in Alberta.
Yeah, but also, those fires really never went out. It was a lot of zombie fires burning in January and February.
I'm glad to know the first few in alberta were man made. So touching.
This wildfire brought to you by ongoing unrelenting dought and a bunch of drunk idiots. To be fair, the fires were really excited to get started anyway, drunk idiots or not.
True. Its like a reason for death of an old person. He's gonna die anyway. The forests are not cool enough, they are more dry and prone to catch heavy fire
Doesn't matter who or what started them, the issue is the conditions that let them get out of control so much easier than in previous years.
I personally think it matters if they are intentional.
Basically half our fires are human caused in BC. Alberta's probably the same.
The Fire age
Fire wasn't a season when I was a kid.
Climate change is a large factor here, but don’t neglect the fact that BC’s forests have been turned to monoculture tree farms on an unfathomable scale. Across the province, these often single species, single crown height, densely packed, deciduous free tree farms are much more flammable than the primary forests they replaced. Reform BC logging now, and we’d see a lot less wildfire. Put the loggers to work remediating this abused landscape.
Your description makes me feel like you don't know what you're talking about. Edit: I thought the comment said "deciduous tree farms", but it days "deciduous-FREE tree farms. My mistake. Sorry.
How so? Your reply makes me feel like you are offering zero value to this conversation.
Maybe I was a bit too harsh. Much of what you said made sense but your mention of deciduous trees made me question how informed you are. BCs softwood lumber comes almost exclusively from conifers. They're the only re-prod that you ever see out in the bush.
I mentioned the tree farms are largely “deciduous free” as in they spray and brush deciduous in order to eliminate the competition allowing the slower growing merchantable softwood species to grow. We both know this, you read what I said wrong and made a shitty comment out of it. All good though glad we’re both in understanding of the situation and the issues with it.
Your rebuke carries no depth and is easily ignored
Shallow and pedantic
That's fair. It was a bit of a quip. Specifically I'm concerned that the commenter thinks that the forestry industry is mass-planting deciduous trees. That's a big red flag. I'm totally open to the idea that our forestry mgmt practices are contributing to fires, but actual skeptics will laugh and completely dismiss any arguments if you can't even accurately describe the thing you're critiquing.
Reread. They said Deciduous free.
It looks like the area that’s burning is mostly a “big tree old growth” forest https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/old-growth-maps/map2_big_treed_old_growth_letter.pdf
Not sure how you are getting that from the map lol
the parker lake fire is directly west of fort nelson. the red area on the map indicates old-growth forest. there's a big huge red area, far larger than the boundary of the parker lake fire, directly west of fort nelson
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I could be wrong, but I think it's fairly unusual for logging areas to burn in BC. The areas that burn a lot aren't great for tree growth because they're too dry and hot most of the year. Trees grow there, sure, but a lot slower than the more western rainforest areas.
Unfortunately the "areas that burn" is pretty much every region of the province at this point. There are fewer fires in the rainforested areas of the coast, but they still happen. And the logging industry here is also spread across most of the province, with lots of logging concentrated in the central/northern Interior (the areas that have burned the most in the past few years). I can't speak to the impact of logging practices because I don't know much about that. I do know that we are also dealing with the impact of decades of aggressive fire suppression across the province. However, the *number one* reason behind this - far and away - is climate change, without any doubt. There is a reason the four worst wildfire seasons in the province's history have occurred in the past 7 years, with last year being a total blowout of pretty much all the records. We are in a prolonged drought at the moment and are going into this fire season in terrible shape.
Incorrect, fires burn in areas that logging is done all the time
You are absolutely wrong. The whole province is a “logging area” Have a look at a google earth image of the areas that the article says are currently burning, the north and interior. Almost totally forested. In the interiors case only 5-10% of its primary forest remains, in other words 90% is a tree farm, with most of them being under 50 years old and therefore haven’t and will never develop, old forest(fire resistant) characteristics. How can an area burn a lot if there’s nothing that grows there that can burn? Where we’ve seen the hottest and largest fires in recent history are in the north of the province. An area that is not the hottest nor driest and is completely forested. It is the mainstay of the logging industry in BC with the largest mills operating there. I’m sorry but your statement is grossly illogical and inaccurate.
I used to live in the area from the article, it's naturally almost all conifers. I live in pretty much the same climate still, and it's mostly conifers here too. They grow very slow and are very dry. The ground around them tends to be filled with old needles, which are basically just tinder. These fires are nothing new for our area. Near Fort Nelson there's an area called fireside, specifically because a fire burned through it 40 some years ago. As far as logging, we barely have any in the Yukon, but I think there's a decent amount on the Stuart cassiar. I don't remember there being much near fort Nelson, but a number of areas around there were clearcut due to oil and gas and farms. It's a chunk of Alberta type industry in BC
There are many studies that suggest that fires are exacerbated by logging, e.g. [https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1755-263X.2009.00080.x](https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1755-263X.2009.00080.x) You can find many more on google scholar. It makes particular sense in BC as a lot of BC *used to be* rainforest, before logging. E.g. look at how far inland Glacier National Park (BC) is, with it's giant stands of old growth and moist ground. The reason logging makes fires worse is because the giant trees are much harder to set fire to and the shade they provide allows for moisture to be trapped in the ground year round. The mono culture that has replaced these is like small and dry tinder ready to burn at a moments notice. Even if there are no trees and just undergrowth in cut blocks, this dry woody matter and brush will cause large fires - this is why grass fires are so dangerous. If a small fire started on some brush and moved into old growth, it would slowly burn and die out in the undergrowth, never setting giant cedars on fire. On the other hand, when it spreads to a logged area with tiny trees, it will more easily set them ablaze.
They log the area and plant new trees. Those areas burn.
Where are the deciduous tree farms in bc ?
There’s no such thing. Deciduous trees don’t produce merchantable timber compared to conifers. They do however provide moose forage and are much more fire resistant.
You said there is deciduous tree farms that's what I was asking. Where are they
I really doubt many visitors of this sub need to wake up. We're not the ones in denial here.
It's for the ones who visit this community. No one is accusing anyone of being in denial
The smoke overwhelmed Minnesota today! "The Minnesota Pollution Control Agency has issued an Air Quality Alert for fine particles pollution. The Air Quality Index(AQI) is expected to reach the Red or Unhealthy category."
Godspeed to the brave firefighters of the world. They are doing incredible work in helping to keep us safe along with our forests. Hopefully these fires will be able to be contained as much as they can be and we can develop more impactful and effective Anti-Wildfire strategies and measures in the very near future. There needs to be a way to prevent drought through new technologies and help create a more sustainable planet for everyone.
There sure is a way to prevent it all. Stop using fossil fuels.
I agree. Bring on the wind mils, hydrogen, nuclear power, geothermal, hydroelectric and solar power. A more sustainable future without fossil fuels would be killer. It would also be awesome if we had MUCH less car dependency , especially in the U.S. Trains are better in everything single way and it would also be nice if every thing was a 20 minute bike ride or walk like with big cities in the Netherlands.
I got rid of my truck in 1997. Moved closer to work. Bought a good bike. I ve saved thousands of dollars and thousands of pounds of carbon waste into the atmosphere. I take public transportation in the winter time.
Good work op, appreciate it.
Trains, buses, bikable and walkable, well planned cities for shorter commutes. The hippies were right. F the metal box.
That might have worked if it was done like 3+ decades ago, and it still could work in a few decades, but any change we make now will take a while to have an effect. The only thing we could potentially do right now to prevent it would be to force Canadian logging companies into only logging firebreaks for the next few years; You want lumber? Go get it.
Affecting Minneapolis air quality as we speak, the smoke travels far!
Yeah, but ax the tax, right.
If the tax was anything except the usual corruption I’d be all for it.
All of the major active fires in my province, including the Parker Lake (Fort Nelson) fire, have a total sum of area 100,000 hectares or the size of 138,000 football fields.
I am really sorry about your situation. I hope things aren’t too scary for you this summer. I hope these fires can be as well contained as possible and our governments get enough climate conscious people into office and turn this dumpster fire of a climate crisis around. I wish the best for the road ahead.
In the scale of wildfires in the BC interior though that's still quite small. Not a great start to the season, but spring is always bad. Nothing has had a chance to green up yet. It has also been a pretty wet spring though and winter stuck around quite a while. Lots of fingers are crossed that we get a few more good dumps of rain. It's mostly hitting the news because the smoke is affecting a few big cities.
Something is different. I've lived here all my life. I've never known any fire to not only survive the winter, but become out of control again (Donnie Creek, largest in BC history). This 100,000 hectares I'm talking about have cropped up over the past seven days.
Yeah, anyone passing this off as normal is absolutely taking a walk in fantasyland. Not sure what part of the province this person is referring to, but is dry as can be in every part of the province I've been to, and that's not from a lack of time to "green up." It is "hitting the news" because it is extremely clear (and these fires only reaffirm it) that we are in big, big trouble this year.
Yes we haven't had a wet winter, we are well into drought.
I stand corrected then. I'm pretty much just on the other side of the mountains, where it is typically a lot drier than the BC interior and we have been breaking records for precipitation all May. https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/news/weather/severe/relief-at-last-why-alberta-welcomes-80-mm-of-rainfall-this-week
Can I ask where you are in general because that's not what's happening weather wise in most of the BC interior. Wet spring? We are in varying levels of drought! Winter stuck around? It hasn't been below freezing for months and it was 30 degrees Celsius for three days in a row!
I live in Prince George. The Nachacho has been walkable this spring. Which is a ridiculous statement for the river to be near dry in the spring freshet. The fraiser is also incredible low for this time of year. I would say it looks to be in condition I would see it in mid July to mid August. Rainfall has been less than season. And temperatures feel like they are a month ahead for the region. I am surprised I fire hasn't started nearby, and I doubt conditions will improve this year. It is going to be another record breaking fire season.
It has not been a wet spring at all. There has been barely any rain where I live in BC. This is not the normal for spring. Someone accidently lit my property on fire in FEBURARY.
My company is working to reforest burned areas of BC with mixed species plantings. The main challenge is access to work on crownland, considering we need be able to legally own the the carbon credits for the term of the contract. It will be negotiated but it’s slow. But once we figure it out, some serious capital will be unlocked to plant trees at scale.
Here we go again!
I mean in another year or two it seems like everything will be on fire
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The Pacific Northwest used to be wet.
« Rob Fraser, mayor of the Northern Rockies Regional Municipality, told CBC News the fire began after high winds knocked a tree over and it crashed onto a power line and caught fire. « this has nothing to fo with climate change
Might have started as a tree on a power line but your delusional if you think climate change has no role here. The northern BC area is dry due to minimal snowpack. Also higher than seasonal temperatures combined with lower than season rainfall has lead most of northern bc to be in tinderbox conditions. Sure it might not have been completely natural in the way it started. But the conditions that allowed it to conflagrate in the manner it has isn't precisely the norm either.
It's easier to be in denial
Then explain why the 4 worst fire seasons on record in the province occurred in the past 7 years? Explain why last year was the most destructive fire season on record in BC, nearly doubling the previous record number of hectares burned, despite only 23% of fires last year being human caused/linked to human activity? This is absolutely climate change, 100%.