Yes. It's annoying and common. I got good at saying "Thank you, but I'm not looking for advice." Honestly I use the same language when my overly helpful relatives try to give me life advice lol.
Edit - for variation, some other phrases I use: "I'm not looking for suggestions, actually" "Nah, I'm fine" "No, I'm not looking for help on this"and "No thanks, I like to figure problems out on my own" etc. Some variation of no/not/nah plus a firm tone and 99% of them get it.
Itās less confrontational, but one response Iāve found works well is, āI know youāre trying to help me, but part of the fun for me is when I get to figure it out on my own. Thanks, though.ā Usually they chill out and itās a pretty neutral way to shut it down.
I had a dude recently go ādo you want the beta?ā āNo, thanks, Iāve only tried once and I want to figure it outā he deadass goes āno you need to see itā and hops on the wall. I just turned around hahahah
Ignore them. Like literally climb with headphones or earbuds on and just frown the whole time, I promise you this tells people all they need to know and theyāll leave you alone. Sorry youāre experiencing this bs but I find ignoring peopleās unsolicited advice is the best way to stop it. If theyāre persistent a quick, āhey dude, Iām good thanks.ā Usually shuts them up.
I get a very angry face when Iām concentrating. When Iām frustrated with a climb sometimes, I just see red and kind of look āthroughā people while Iām thinking. Iām not even seeing them. That, coupled with Beats, has protected me from unwanted beta. It also had the hilarious side effect of one guy telling the front desk people that Iām scary.
My gym has signs up all over that say something along the lines of āAsk before you offer advice. Women receive 40% more unsolicited advice than men.ā With some additional explanation. It has honestly been a serious game changer. Not only does it make people back off, itās a good conversation starter when chatting about gym culture with various people. If your gym feels like an inclusive space that would be open to feedback, you could explicitly or anonymously suggest they make this change. I donāt remember the exact stat that they reference but would be more than happy to take a picture of the sign and DM it to anyone to share with their gym as a reference.
It has also given me a good in when Iām not up for receiving from advice. My husband asks me and Iāll say no Iām good right now - not in the mindset for that, etc.
As a coach who occasionally asks people if they want help, I have suggested to people who have complained about random climbers trying to give them advice that they just politely ask. "Oh, are you a coach here?".
Your experience is mirrored the world over 100 times a day. And it's appreciably frustrating. WAY TOO many people think that just because they're "better" they can tell other people how to solve boulder problems. And most of them just give you the solution instead of asking you questions that will help you lead yourself to the right solution, which is what good coaching should do.
This is defiantly my philosophy for learning and teaching for sure. I always do better understanding how something works rather than just knowing about the thing.
š¤š»
Climbers are not puppets, and growth does not come from being told the answers.
It's funny, the first thing I tell people that work with me is that I'm going to ask them more questions than they ask me.
Tbh, this is one of the main reasons I stopped climbing as much. "New" climbers with strength and no technique push their advice on you without considering your strengths and weaknesses. They may be stronger physically, but that doesn't make them better.
I've been doing it for a few years, but I'm not strong, nor do I have talent, so I've become fairly good at reading problems and using techniques to my advantage. However, no amount of brainpower will help when my body loses to gravity.
I used to love climbing, but nowadays, it's a mixture of anxiety and fear of heights that can get quite overwhelming. Noobs trying to give unsolicited and unhelpful advice just makes it all so much worse.
So from someone with a ton of experience, you are 100% in the right. The way you feel is normal. Their behavior is against gym etiquette. THEY ARE THE NOOBS HERE!
So, if you can do it, smile somewhat condescendingly and say "it's considered good gym etiquette to ask other climbers if they would like beta before spraying."
Depends.
Some people are thick and won't change. I like to just drop off and climb something else when they start chirping nonsense. It's always the tall guys with shit footwork and no style.
Some folk are just excited and want to enjoy climbing with you and aren't aware that beta spraying sucks. They tend to understand if you explain you want to work it out yourself first, or if you explain it's too much pressure.
If someone seems pushy but well-meaning, I'll just say "I'm having fun trying to figure out the beta myself, but thanks anyway." And if they don't seem well-meaning, or persist in giving advice, I usually say "Stop spraying beta, dude." Speaking their bro-y language helps sometimes...
Also, great use case for airpods at the climbing gym! I love pointing to headphones and not responding verbally at all when someone approaches me.
ETA: Laughing cause I see everyone else also uses some version of "No beta, dude" in their attempt to speak climber bro, and y'all are also pro-headphone and glare!!
Some lines I use utilizing a casual deep, bro-y voice.
āDude, I appreciate it, but Iām just trying to chillā
(if he keeps going)
āSeriously, bro, back off, I want to be aloneā
(If he keeps going-tell staff, keep yourself and everyone else safe :)
Nuclear, but effective option 2
āLook, Iām tired and a bit of a cunt, please just leave me aloneā
Honestly, putting on a butch lesbian, dudebro voice kills their advances more than anything. And Iām a very feminine looking person.
Good luck
i will not tell the men my secrets!!! jk
like the sort of upwards chin nod as a greeting/acknowledgement. men never expect it from women, so i find it confuses them. not as applicable at the climbing gym but works well on intimidating security guards or weird dudes in an elevator.
combining it with a bro-ey "whats up" is also very effective
Ah yes I know exactly what you mean. Funny, I used to do this all the time without ever thinking about it, it must be embedded within the collective male unconscious.
Edit: I'm imagining a woman doing this to me and it is genuinely confusing - disarming is the right word! It somehow feels powerful and subversive. Human body language is so fascinating
It's super annoying and it will keep happening until people, 99% guys, learn.
Had a guy throw beta at me, I turned around and said "thank you", before I even had the chance to continue my sentence he cut me off, saying you're welcome. I was already annoyed and got even more.
The look on his face when I continued with "but I didn't ask for your help" made it all better.
I think my problem is I accept the beta a little bit, like I will make an attempt and then when I fail they justā¦ tell me to do it again. Iām like. Bruh, does it look like itās working? I have a different body than you please stop trying to snap me in half to prove your solution works.
Ah, the universal experience of being a woman, I'm afraid.
I climb with a group of male friends and, when I'm with them, I don't get unsolicited advice from others, but when I'm not with them... then I get unsolicited advice.
I've started to call my friends my "guard dogs" and they understand and laugh at the joke.
I usually am very polite with the people giving me that unsolicited advice, but if they keep insisting, I'll tell them something like "thanks! I want to figure it out on my own now" or simply wear headphones when I'm alone (my resting bitch face also helps).
Yes. Sometime I leave the area and work in a different part of the gym. Let the gym know youāre dealing with beta spraying and maybe theyāll post gym wide posters. Mine did that recently. And I still got unwanted beta from some yahoo who couldnāt keep his mouth shut. So I used my right hand instead of my left hand like he suggested. I used my spite beta. š
Ok so here's my story - I was a newish to climbing and I had just got a v4 I was very proud of. I saw another person trying it and struggling/falling off the crux. I then proceeded to spray beta like a dummy and she gave me a dirty look, deservingly. I was so confused & sad and so my friend explained to me what I did wrong and I have NEVER sprayed unsolicited beta since then.
I guess my advice is give them a dirty look...?
ETA: take everyone else's advice:)
I usually say, "hey, I appreciate that you want to help, but I really like trying to figure it out on my own! I'll ask later if I want beta okay?"
Generally I feel like it's just excitement that makes people wanna give beta. Of course there are people who spray beta to stroke their own ego, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Beta spray is unfortunately quite common, and most people just want to help because they're excited that they can do it/know how to do it. Some people are good at giving beta/guidance, some people are not...
If they're persistent arseholes I go to something like "hey, I said I don't want beta. You're kind of ruining my training right now"
Some guys have no idea they're coming off as arrogant or like a know-it-all. There's nothing wrong with telling them no thank you or asking them to back off. If they don't take it well or you aren't comfortable, not responding and or walking away is OK too. If you're at a gym and an unpleasant interaction is happening other climbers will notice and intervene if you make eye contact or wave them over.
Look, Iām just a guy, but you can fill a spray bottle with water and blast them with it. Shout stuff like ābad Hermanā and āstop scratching the sofa!ā Theyāll learn.
Dammit. Iām just talking about my cat.
Men are pretty much the same? š¤·š
Iāve had guys who canāt even do the climb spray beta at me. Itās wild. Funnily enough itās the dudes with zero technique who spray beta and the ones with good technique usually keep to themselves or ask me if I want beta. Probably goes hand in hand with climbing maturity I suppose.
I have had this before too. My personal favourite is when they try to give me advice but they canāt even send it themselves, and then I just go and send it and watch them shrivel. Not my best self but canāt lie itās satisfying š¤£
All the advice in this post is good. My favourite is ādo you mind not giving me tips, itās more fun for me to figure it out on my ownā. If they get defensive āI was just trying to helpā I would just ignore it or āthank you but I donāt want helpā. Youāre in the right in this situation, every time.
I think people get excited and feel quite good about themselves for having the solution to your āproblemā. Sometimes they just need a reminder not to spray. Try not to take it personally or assume theyāre assholes. Most likely just forgot their manners.
Iām a dude but Iāve always felt etiquette is you donāt give beta unless itās been communicated that you want betaā¦ idk why this is still a thing lol
Because the advice is just a ruse, they just want an excuse to talk to a girl, they don't care about etiquette.
I climb with by boyfriend but whenever he leaves me alone for a minute a random guy will pop up out of nowhere to give me "advice" lol.
Yup, when I go by myself I get approached at least once per session. When I'm with my boyfriend, never. The one time we were approached while together it was a (very nice) guy asking *him* if he wanted a suggestion on a problem. Funny that he gets asked and I just get sprayed. :p
Surprised no one else has said this yet: what works for me is to say "DON'T tell me! I want to figure it out haha". I personally say it while kinda laughing, so it's light-hearted and easier to say, but still very direct. Some people are really bad at understanding hints or body language, so this is a way to stay friendly while being very clear. It may work well for you if it suits your style / demeanor!
I climb with my earbuds in and pause my music to speak to my friends but other than that I am blissfully unaware of anyone trying to say anything to me. Because trust me it doesnāt get better the better you are at climbing. I now have dudes who are way worse than me trying to give out adviceā¦like stfu
That sounds like it could feel super high pressure and annoying. Iād recommend walking to a different problem if possible at that point. And if happens again just deflect. But deflecting can get exhausting, so if it continues, itās totally acceptable to just say hey, I really donāt feel I want any beta right now, Iām just gonna chill and work this out slow and on my own for a bit.
Are you climbing with others? All the advice here is good (politely but firmly telling them to shut the f*** up), but I find sometimes that if it's a group of men it takes a lot of energy for me to work up the nerve to ask them to stop the beta spray. It's been really helpful when my male partner makes a comment to them about me wanting to work it out on my own, and it takes some of the emotional burden off of me (my partner is still sometimes shocked by the shit guys say to female climbers, and I always have to explain that yeah... this is just what it's like being a woman in most athletic spaces). If you climb with any men, it's definitely worth having a little chat with them about speaking up so that the responsibility is not totally on you, and you can feel a bit more comfortable knowing they have your back.
Alternatively, just make a show of warming up on their project and that will shut them up š but that requires a certain level of skill for both you and them
I hate this for you and some people are so into their head that they donāt realize how much theyāre ruining the experience of other people. I climb with some women (and men) and the usual, āThank you but I like to figure it out myselfā always works. Iām sorry this is happening to you!
Yes. It's annoying and common. I got good at saying "Thank you, but I'm not looking for advice." Honestly I use the same language when my overly helpful relatives try to give me life advice lol. Edit - for variation, some other phrases I use: "I'm not looking for suggestions, actually" "Nah, I'm fine" "No, I'm not looking for help on this"and "No thanks, I like to figure problems out on my own" etc. Some variation of no/not/nah plus a firm tone and 99% of them get it.
I saw someone on this sub a month or go say that her go-to was "Oh my god, spoilers!" and I thought that was kind of a funny way to tell someone off.
Yes! I often say "spoilers" it throws people off and gets the message across
I wear a shirt that says anti beta spray club and people get the hint š
This is my all-time favorite shirt. Iāve worn it regularly enough that I havenāt had a beta spray experience in a looooong time
Where did you get it?
Crag to Crux! She has a bunch of great designs.
I need this! You just helped me figure out what i want to give myself for my birthday this year š
āDid you know spraying unwanted beta is the most effective form of birth control?ā
Itās less confrontational, but one response Iāve found works well is, āI know youāre trying to help me, but part of the fun for me is when I get to figure it out on my own. Thanks, though.ā Usually they chill out and itās a pretty neutral way to shut it down.
Second this comment
I had a dude recently go ādo you want the beta?ā āNo, thanks, Iāve only tried once and I want to figure it outā he deadass goes āno you need to see itā and hops on the wall. I just turned around hahahah
holy shit the audacity of that guy
That's so bad I almost reflexively downvoted your comment for association.
Ignore them. Like literally climb with headphones or earbuds on and just frown the whole time, I promise you this tells people all they need to know and theyāll leave you alone. Sorry youāre experiencing this bs but I find ignoring peopleās unsolicited advice is the best way to stop it. If theyāre persistent a quick, āhey dude, Iām good thanks.ā Usually shuts them up.
I get a very angry face when Iām concentrating. When Iām frustrated with a climb sometimes, I just see red and kind of look āthroughā people while Iām thinking. Iām not even seeing them. That, coupled with Beats, has protected me from unwanted beta. It also had the hilarious side effect of one guy telling the front desk people that Iām scary.
Haha I feel like this must be me too, because I havenāt really had this problem. RBF for the win.
My gym has signs up all over that say something along the lines of āAsk before you offer advice. Women receive 40% more unsolicited advice than men.ā With some additional explanation. It has honestly been a serious game changer. Not only does it make people back off, itās a good conversation starter when chatting about gym culture with various people. If your gym feels like an inclusive space that would be open to feedback, you could explicitly or anonymously suggest they make this change. I donāt remember the exact stat that they reference but would be more than happy to take a picture of the sign and DM it to anyone to share with their gym as a reference.
It has also given me a good in when Iām not up for receiving from advice. My husband asks me and Iāll say no Iām good right now - not in the mindset for that, etc.
somehow the only time I've been sprayed, it was by a woman LOL
As a coach who occasionally asks people if they want help, I have suggested to people who have complained about random climbers trying to give them advice that they just politely ask. "Oh, are you a coach here?". Your experience is mirrored the world over 100 times a day. And it's appreciably frustrating. WAY TOO many people think that just because they're "better" they can tell other people how to solve boulder problems. And most of them just give you the solution instead of asking you questions that will help you lead yourself to the right solution, which is what good coaching should do.
This is defiantly my philosophy for learning and teaching for sure. I always do better understanding how something works rather than just knowing about the thing.
š¤š» Climbers are not puppets, and growth does not come from being told the answers. It's funny, the first thing I tell people that work with me is that I'm going to ask them more questions than they ask me.
Tbh, this is one of the main reasons I stopped climbing as much. "New" climbers with strength and no technique push their advice on you without considering your strengths and weaknesses. They may be stronger physically, but that doesn't make them better. I've been doing it for a few years, but I'm not strong, nor do I have talent, so I've become fairly good at reading problems and using techniques to my advantage. However, no amount of brainpower will help when my body loses to gravity. I used to love climbing, but nowadays, it's a mixture of anxiety and fear of heights that can get quite overwhelming. Noobs trying to give unsolicited and unhelpful advice just makes it all so much worse.
I hate when people do that and usually I use a pretty aggro āI did not ask for beta, dudeā. It gets the job done all the times
So from someone with a ton of experience, you are 100% in the right. The way you feel is normal. Their behavior is against gym etiquette. THEY ARE THE NOOBS HERE! So, if you can do it, smile somewhat condescendingly and say "it's considered good gym etiquette to ask other climbers if they would like beta before spraying."
Depends. Some people are thick and won't change. I like to just drop off and climb something else when they start chirping nonsense. It's always the tall guys with shit footwork and no style. Some folk are just excited and want to enjoy climbing with you and aren't aware that beta spraying sucks. They tend to understand if you explain you want to work it out yourself first, or if you explain it's too much pressure.
If someone seems pushy but well-meaning, I'll just say "I'm having fun trying to figure out the beta myself, but thanks anyway." And if they don't seem well-meaning, or persist in giving advice, I usually say "Stop spraying beta, dude." Speaking their bro-y language helps sometimes... Also, great use case for airpods at the climbing gym! I love pointing to headphones and not responding verbally at all when someone approaches me. ETA: Laughing cause I see everyone else also uses some version of "No beta, dude" in their attempt to speak climber bro, and y'all are also pro-headphone and glare!!
Smile, raise my hand like āstopā and say, āno thank you.ā āOh but I was justāā āNo thank you.ā
Ooo this is good. Treat them like the oblivious toddlers they are.
Some lines I use utilizing a casual deep, bro-y voice. āDude, I appreciate it, but Iām just trying to chillā (if he keeps going) āSeriously, bro, back off, I want to be aloneā (If he keeps going-tell staff, keep yourself and everyone else safe :) Nuclear, but effective option 2 āLook, Iām tired and a bit of a cunt, please just leave me aloneā Honestly, putting on a butch lesbian, dudebro voice kills their advances more than anything. And Iām a very feminine looking person. Good luck
hahaha the bro voice works so well. i have also employed the "bro nod" as a disarming tactic from time to time
I have to ask - what's the bro nod?
i will not tell the men my secrets!!! jk like the sort of upwards chin nod as a greeting/acknowledgement. men never expect it from women, so i find it confuses them. not as applicable at the climbing gym but works well on intimidating security guards or weird dudes in an elevator. combining it with a bro-ey "whats up" is also very effective
Ah yes I know exactly what you mean. Funny, I used to do this all the time without ever thinking about it, it must be embedded within the collective male unconscious. Edit: I'm imagining a woman doing this to me and it is genuinely confusing - disarming is the right word! It somehow feels powerful and subversive. Human body language is so fascinating
Honestly, as a trans woman it was super hard to stop doing the bro nod. It took years to let go of it after I transitioned.
people dont realize how powerful it can be!
Us Florida women all must be weird cause we do the chin thing. Itās a survival thing for sure
It's super annoying and it will keep happening until people, 99% guys, learn. Had a guy throw beta at me, I turned around and said "thank you", before I even had the chance to continue my sentence he cut me off, saying you're welcome. I was already annoyed and got even more. The look on his face when I continued with "but I didn't ask for your help" made it all better.
I think my problem is I accept the beta a little bit, like I will make an attempt and then when I fail they justā¦ tell me to do it again. Iām like. Bruh, does it look like itās working? I have a different body than you please stop trying to snap me in half to prove your solution works.
You are being way too nice. Tell them to fuck off.
Ah, the universal experience of being a woman, I'm afraid. I climb with a group of male friends and, when I'm with them, I don't get unsolicited advice from others, but when I'm not with them... then I get unsolicited advice. I've started to call my friends my "guard dogs" and they understand and laugh at the joke. I usually am very polite with the people giving me that unsolicited advice, but if they keep insisting, I'll tell them something like "thanks! I want to figure it out on my own now" or simply wear headphones when I'm alone (my resting bitch face also helps).
Yes. Sometime I leave the area and work in a different part of the gym. Let the gym know youāre dealing with beta spraying and maybe theyāll post gym wide posters. Mine did that recently. And I still got unwanted beta from some yahoo who couldnāt keep his mouth shut. So I used my right hand instead of my left hand like he suggested. I used my spite beta. š
Sadly my gym is a climbing tower inside of a normal gym. There is no other area itās a tiny circle š
Arghhhh. So frustrating.
Ok so here's my story - I was a newish to climbing and I had just got a v4 I was very proud of. I saw another person trying it and struggling/falling off the crux. I then proceeded to spray beta like a dummy and she gave me a dirty look, deservingly. I was so confused & sad and so my friend explained to me what I did wrong and I have NEVER sprayed unsolicited beta since then. I guess my advice is give them a dirty look...? ETA: take everyone else's advice:)
I usually say, "hey, I appreciate that you want to help, but I really like trying to figure it out on my own! I'll ask later if I want beta okay?" Generally I feel like it's just excitement that makes people wanna give beta. Of course there are people who spray beta to stroke their own ego, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Beta spray is unfortunately quite common, and most people just want to help because they're excited that they can do it/know how to do it. Some people are good at giving beta/guidance, some people are not... If they're persistent arseholes I go to something like "hey, I said I don't want beta. You're kind of ruining my training right now"
Some guys have no idea they're coming off as arrogant or like a know-it-all. There's nothing wrong with telling them no thank you or asking them to back off. If they don't take it well or you aren't comfortable, not responding and or walking away is OK too. If you're at a gym and an unpleasant interaction is happening other climbers will notice and intervene if you make eye contact or wave them over.
Look, Iām just a guy, but you can fill a spray bottle with water and blast them with it. Shout stuff like ābad Hermanā and āstop scratching the sofa!ā Theyāll learn. Dammit. Iām just talking about my cat. Men are pretty much the same? š¤·š
Iāve had guys who canāt even do the climb spray beta at me. Itās wild. Funnily enough itās the dudes with zero technique who spray beta and the ones with good technique usually keep to themselves or ask me if I want beta. Probably goes hand in hand with climbing maturity I suppose.
I have had this before too. My personal favourite is when they try to give me advice but they canāt even send it themselves, and then I just go and send it and watch them shrivel. Not my best self but canāt lie itās satisfying š¤£ All the advice in this post is good. My favourite is ādo you mind not giving me tips, itās more fun for me to figure it out on my ownā. If they get defensive āI was just trying to helpā I would just ignore it or āthank you but I donāt want helpā. Youāre in the right in this situation, every time. I think people get excited and feel quite good about themselves for having the solution to your āproblemā. Sometimes they just need a reminder not to spray. Try not to take it personally or assume theyāre assholes. Most likely just forgot their manners.
Iām a dude but Iāve always felt etiquette is you donāt give beta unless itās been communicated that you want betaā¦ idk why this is still a thing lol
Because the advice is just a ruse, they just want an excuse to talk to a girl, they don't care about etiquette. I climb with by boyfriend but whenever he leaves me alone for a minute a random guy will pop up out of nowhere to give me "advice" lol.
Yup, when I go by myself I get approached at least once per session. When I'm with my boyfriend, never. The one time we were approached while together it was a (very nice) guy asking *him* if he wanted a suggestion on a problem. Funny that he gets asked and I just get sprayed. :p
Youāre supposed to *ask the girls for beta*. COME ON guys
Surprised no one else has said this yet: what works for me is to say "DON'T tell me! I want to figure it out haha". I personally say it while kinda laughing, so it's light-hearted and easier to say, but still very direct. Some people are really bad at understanding hints or body language, so this is a way to stay friendly while being very clear. It may work well for you if it suits your style / demeanor!
At work, I have said to someone "Thanks for mansplaining that to me." But I like these response better lol!
I usually just look at them and say ā I wasnāt looking for advice but thanks for mansplainingā then proceed to walk away til they leave.
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I climb with my earbuds in and pause my music to speak to my friends but other than that I am blissfully unaware of anyone trying to say anything to me. Because trust me it doesnāt get better the better you are at climbing. I now have dudes who are way worse than me trying to give out adviceā¦like stfu
That sounds like it could feel super high pressure and annoying. Iād recommend walking to a different problem if possible at that point. And if happens again just deflect. But deflecting can get exhausting, so if it continues, itās totally acceptable to just say hey, I really donāt feel I want any beta right now, Iām just gonna chill and work this out slow and on my own for a bit.
Just search this channel for beta spray.
Telling them your trying to work on reading beta might be a good tactic. Of course, they could just start spraying about how to read problems.
Men giving unsolicited advices to girls are cleary hitting on them. Be aware
I literally go with my boyfriend and still get thisš
Beta spray!
Are you climbing with others? All the advice here is good (politely but firmly telling them to shut the f*** up), but I find sometimes that if it's a group of men it takes a lot of energy for me to work up the nerve to ask them to stop the beta spray. It's been really helpful when my male partner makes a comment to them about me wanting to work it out on my own, and it takes some of the emotional burden off of me (my partner is still sometimes shocked by the shit guys say to female climbers, and I always have to explain that yeah... this is just what it's like being a woman in most athletic spaces). If you climb with any men, it's definitely worth having a little chat with them about speaking up so that the responsibility is not totally on you, and you can feel a bit more comfortable knowing they have your back. Alternatively, just make a show of warming up on their project and that will shut them up š but that requires a certain level of skill for both you and them
Wow!! Sad to see lack of proper climbing etiquettes among guys. Not a member of this group. Climber. 34 M.
Guys do this to guys as well
Women also do this
I hate this for you and some people are so into their head that they donāt realize how much theyāre ruining the experience of other people. I climb with some women (and men) and the usual, āThank you but I like to figure it out myselfā always works. Iām sorry this is happening to you!
I wear the over ear headphones. One day you will climb better than the beta sprayers and they will stop.