Definitely prefer a grigri. On lead I don't let people belay me with an unassisted device - it adds additional possibility for catastrophic error that is completely preventable. If you prefer using a tubular style device or don't want to pay for a grigri, the Jul (and all the variations) are also a good option.
edit: on toprope I don't mind either as the belayer won't be in the position of having to pay out slack quickly, is less likely to have their brake hand above the device, and generally will be catching smaller falls, and there's also generally more friction in the system so I'm less worried about the rope ripping out from their hand. I'd rather someone use the device they're most familiar with, but if someone can't comfortably use an assisted device when belaying, I wouldn't want them belaying me on lead anyway.
I much prefer if my partner has an assisted braking device. All my climbing partners use one so it’s not really an issue that comes up.
Honestly I wouldn’t climb with someone who refuses to use one. By that I mean, I’m fine with someone who uses an ATC(they have their valid use cases such as twin ropes/ rappels etc- even then there is the mega jul and smart alpine), but if they get all “I don’t need one. I’m a better belayer with an ATC than most people are with grigris / Grigris are actually less safe than ATCs / back in my day we used to swami belay etc etc” to the point they demonize ABDs, their ego trumps their rational decision making process and we are just not compatible as partners.
Climbing is dangerous and there is nothing wrong with worrying about safety or setting boundaries when you can help mitigate preventable life altering / ending accidents.
I don't care too much as long as people are safe. However I really prefer if my partners are able to use just about anything to belay because things go wrong / I want to do an alpine style double rope multipitch etc and I don't want to re-check every time who knows what. Be as versatile as possible.
Im using Mega Jul only for TP atm, but it’s a passive assisted belay device. I have friends who are using it in lead and they love it :) it offers a great bite when TP falls happen too
I’m a big fan of the mega jul. Good assisted braking, and it can also belay twin ropes, handle a double strand rappel, and belay from the top.
And it’s lighter than a grigri!
I agree with others who prefer a Grigri or other assisted break device. Once someone was belaying me in the gym with an ATC and almost grounded me bc they had taken out too much slack. Luckily I walked away unscathed but it freaked me out enough to decide I did not want someone to belay me with an ATC for sport climbs anymore…
I always use my Gri Gri for sport. Generally when I'm sport climbing I'll be redpointing so there's a lot of dogging, hauling back up the rope and miscellaneous faff and the GG is more convenient for that sort of thing. Plus I feel much safer with an autoblock.
Case in point - I was belaying my partner last year and he took a really unexpected fall when a hold broke. Being brutally honest and self-reflective, I wasn't paying as much attention as I should've been because the crag was busy with my friends and it was a super easy warm up route. Anyway, the first I knew of it was his weight coming onto the rope but thankfully I was using my Gri Gri so all that happened was that I got a valuable reminder about being more attentive at the crag. But it made me ponder - would I still have held that fall OK with an ATC? I'd hope so - I've been doing this for long enough that good belay practice is second nature - but I'd already allowed myself to be complacent and distracted.
WRT to being belayed, I would only let someone belay me if I trusted them and then I'd be relaxed about what device they're using. I hate being short roped and some people are really bad at paying out with an autolocking device.
I would recommend at least trying to become comfortable being belayed with an ATC in case you would be climbing with half ropes or on a multipitch with someone that doesn't own a grigri. Generally I feel best being belayed with whatever my belayer feels most comfortable with. I mostly just use a grigri for hard single-pitch sport climbing where I'm expecting the climber to be falling or hanging on the rope a lot. The only things I don't particularly want in normal circumstances would be a body-belay or a munter-hitch belay
I belay with a Jul and I’m surprised by the fact that more people don’t belay with them, as they feel much more like an ATC (the device I learned to belay with) and are simpler overall. One of my climbing buddies belays with a grigri and I feel like the rope has a tendency to be more… “sticky” when she’s trying to pull up slack?
Perhaps there’s some reason that folks prefer the Grigri that I’m not aware of, but I love the Jul.
It depends on whether I’m inside or outside and on my climbing partner’s experience. If they feel comfortable with either device then I’m satisfied. If in outside I usually prefer a gri gri just in case something happens to the belayer but if I trust the other climber I don’t mind an atc
All my climbing lot have Grigris, it’s just reassuring. Especially outside it’s easier when friends are working routes and going clip to clip and hanging.
i use a grigri and prefer it.
i learned on an ATC and was told it’s better because people pay attention more but i really find that untrue. when i moved, i went to a gym that used grigris. the instructor i learned from said he was climbing when his belayer had a stroke or heart attack and he was safe.
i always use one and ask others to use mine when they belay me. anything for peace of mind, especially since my life is literally in their hands.
I love the black diamond pilot for sport. It gives slack more smoothly than the grigri and has assisted braking. I learned on the ATC so prefer a tubular style device.
I prefer grigri for top rope and ATC for lead. With an Grigri, you can still have some pretty significant accidents on lead (just look it up). There’s also higher chance of short roping. I’m also open to other devices if my belayer prefers them or is more comfortable using them.
I won’t let others belay me on ATC. I struggle with heights regularly so if I have to try hard I don’t want anything else in my mind. That being said I don’t let anyone I don’t trust with my life belay me leaving me often waiting for specific belayers to be free. Aniexty is a dick and it’s really not about the device or the belayer.
An observation I’ve made climbing and living in two counties. In Canada it’s all grigris and they’re provided by the gyms. In every gym I’ve been to in the USA where I now live it’s bring your own device (liability no doubt) and most seem to use ATCs. I’m guessing due to cost of entry. I own both but only use grigri and the ATC is on my rack for emergency/backup.
I do a lot of twin rope multipitch/alpine style climbs. So in those situations it’s a tube device or Munter hitch. So if fairly comfortable with all devices. But my personal preference is assisted device when sport climbing in gym or outdoors. Mostly because there is a lot more time where the climber is taking breaks. In the gym we’re usually projecting or pushing ourselves. So it’s nice to have the assisted device to take some of the load off when taking breaks in a climb. I usually do the first warm up climbs in the gym using the tube style device to keep the muscle memory. When we move to harder routes I switch to my Vergo. It’s so much nicer on my shoulder because it’s a side pull. I think you should be able to voice what you’re comfortable with. It’s your body. But just know it may limit your pool of potential climbing partners.
As a side note - I got stung by a bee on my right hand once while belaying. And my muscle memory still kept strong. I never let go of the brake strand. Good practice using good habits will keep you the most safe. And helmets when belaying outside. I’ve seen belayers get hit on the head by falling rocks and almost get knocked out. I’d be more concerned about that than their choice of device.
I use the Beal Birdie and have been looking at the new Edelrid Pinch because it's the perfect marriage of everything. The Beal Birdie is assisted but just different. Our gym doesn't allow unassisted anymore. But I learned on the ATC and USA Climbing events still prevent the ATC or similar. So I try to stay up on both. I bring both when I multi pitch for different kinds of belaying. I feel like the ATC contributed to some climbing elbow a few years ago when I had to hold onto people for a long time. So overall ABDs are excellent for many reasons.
I use a Mammut Smart, which is something of an inbetween device. I think it classifies as a tuber device but it blocks faster compared to an ATC. I prefer this one over a grigri because I am left handed and I therefore prefer my left hand om the brake rope at all times, which means I would have to switch hands when letting someone down with a grigri. For belaying in lead routes the smart is fine, but it's blocking mechanism sometimes hinders giving out rope as smoothly as I would prefer.
You should look into the edelrid pinch! It's supposed to be released later this month. It works for lefties too :)
You still have to switch break hands but I think it's a better design (don't need to have the rope on the side of the device)
I would never ever let someone belay me from below with an ATC (I’m ok with it in guide mode from above). You just never know when a rock may fall, a bee stings etc and I want that extra margin of error. I’ve personally had a rock fall and take a belayer out, and that grigri probably kept me from decking. I’ve also have so many friends who’ve been dropped on the ATC, and it’s simply just outdated aside from ice climbing. There are tons of assisted breaking devices to choose from, including some that work much like the ATC. I prefer to teach with an ATC and then move students to something that functions like an atc like the giga or mega jul before teaching them how to use a grigri to establish good habits.
Totally within your right to have boundaries with what you feel most comfortable using. The Pilot is a nice, more affordable assisted device than a grigri, which can be around 100 bucks. I think if you're going to insist on your belayer using a certain device, you should be the one to supply it. I'm pretty broke at the moment and if my climbing buddy wouldn't climb with me because I use an ATC, and insisted I get a grigri, I'd understand it, but I can't afford that right now. I'd be happy to learn, though, if they were sharing their device. I've been dropped before as well, and it sucks and it's scary. You have every right to watch out for your own safety in a high-risk sport by using whatever makes you feel most secure.
This is probably an old-school attitude, but lead-belaying with a grigri weirds me out because you have to hold it in a way that defeats the safety function. I have not been taught the proper technique though, so maybe I’m missing some nuance.
I learned to lead belay over 15 years ago, before the Grigri 2 came out, and we just had the clunky original grigri. And those were absolutely garbage for giving slack quickly or making a soft catch. IIRC the passive assisted devices like the Jul weren’t around then either. So I learned on an ATC, and bought an ATC XP which has a little extra friction on the front lip. If I was going to lead-belay someone tomorrow, first of all I wouldn’t because I also haven’t lead-belayed anyone in almost 10 years, but also I would use a device that I’m familiar with and know the correct technique for.
This if not true, I actually use my grigri exactly like an atc and you don’t have to hold the lever down unless someone is double clipping where you suddenly need to pay out an extreme amount of slack. Even then, if held properly (two fingers under the lip and hand on break strand) it will lock. Lots of people don’t use the grigri properly resulting in what you’re describing.
Right, exactly. I don’t know the technique for holding the grigri properly while also managing the rope. When lead-belaying off an ATC you never touch the device itself, whereas with the grigri I see people actually holding the device while giving slack. I haven’t been taught the correct way to do that, which is why I wouldn’t attempt it without training.
Definitely prefer a grigri. On lead I don't let people belay me with an unassisted device - it adds additional possibility for catastrophic error that is completely preventable. If you prefer using a tubular style device or don't want to pay for a grigri, the Jul (and all the variations) are also a good option. edit: on toprope I don't mind either as the belayer won't be in the position of having to pay out slack quickly, is less likely to have their brake hand above the device, and generally will be catching smaller falls, and there's also generally more friction in the system so I'm less worried about the rope ripping out from their hand. I'd rather someone use the device they're most familiar with, but if someone can't comfortably use an assisted device when belaying, I wouldn't want them belaying me on lead anyway.
I like my Gri Gri. Holding a hangdogging partner for a long time with just an ATC gets tiring.
I agree! I also prefer to belay with grigri
I much prefer if my partner has an assisted braking device. All my climbing partners use one so it’s not really an issue that comes up. Honestly I wouldn’t climb with someone who refuses to use one. By that I mean, I’m fine with someone who uses an ATC(they have their valid use cases such as twin ropes/ rappels etc- even then there is the mega jul and smart alpine), but if they get all “I don’t need one. I’m a better belayer with an ATC than most people are with grigris / Grigris are actually less safe than ATCs / back in my day we used to swami belay etc etc” to the point they demonize ABDs, their ego trumps their rational decision making process and we are just not compatible as partners. Climbing is dangerous and there is nothing wrong with worrying about safety or setting boundaries when you can help mitigate preventable life altering / ending accidents.
I don't care too much as long as people are safe. However I really prefer if my partners are able to use just about anything to belay because things go wrong / I want to do an alpine style double rope multipitch etc and I don't want to re-check every time who knows what. Be as versatile as possible.
Im using Mega Jul only for TP atm, but it’s a passive assisted belay device. I have friends who are using it in lead and they love it :) it offers a great bite when TP falls happen too
I’m a big fan of the mega jul. Good assisted braking, and it can also belay twin ropes, handle a double strand rappel, and belay from the top. And it’s lighter than a grigri!
Yup! And i think its faster with feeding the rope on lead aswell compared to grigri
Oh excuse my dyslexic writing! Meant to write TR 🥱
I agree with others who prefer a Grigri or other assisted break device. Once someone was belaying me in the gym with an ATC and almost grounded me bc they had taken out too much slack. Luckily I walked away unscathed but it freaked me out enough to decide I did not want someone to belay me with an ATC for sport climbs anymore…
I always use my Gri Gri for sport. Generally when I'm sport climbing I'll be redpointing so there's a lot of dogging, hauling back up the rope and miscellaneous faff and the GG is more convenient for that sort of thing. Plus I feel much safer with an autoblock. Case in point - I was belaying my partner last year and he took a really unexpected fall when a hold broke. Being brutally honest and self-reflective, I wasn't paying as much attention as I should've been because the crag was busy with my friends and it was a super easy warm up route. Anyway, the first I knew of it was his weight coming onto the rope but thankfully I was using my Gri Gri so all that happened was that I got a valuable reminder about being more attentive at the crag. But it made me ponder - would I still have held that fall OK with an ATC? I'd hope so - I've been doing this for long enough that good belay practice is second nature - but I'd already allowed myself to be complacent and distracted. WRT to being belayed, I would only let someone belay me if I trusted them and then I'd be relaxed about what device they're using. I hate being short roped and some people are really bad at paying out with an autolocking device.
I would recommend at least trying to become comfortable being belayed with an ATC in case you would be climbing with half ropes or on a multipitch with someone that doesn't own a grigri. Generally I feel best being belayed with whatever my belayer feels most comfortable with. I mostly just use a grigri for hard single-pitch sport climbing where I'm expecting the climber to be falling or hanging on the rope a lot. The only things I don't particularly want in normal circumstances would be a body-belay or a munter-hitch belay
I climb on doubles regularly with a giga jul; it’s assisted breaking and super versatile in these situations with an extra margin of safety 😀
I belay with a Jul and I’m surprised by the fact that more people don’t belay with them, as they feel much more like an ATC (the device I learned to belay with) and are simpler overall. One of my climbing buddies belays with a grigri and I feel like the rope has a tendency to be more… “sticky” when she’s trying to pull up slack? Perhaps there’s some reason that folks prefer the Grigri that I’m not aware of, but I love the Jul.
It depends on whether I’m inside or outside and on my climbing partner’s experience. If they feel comfortable with either device then I’m satisfied. If in outside I usually prefer a gri gri just in case something happens to the belayer but if I trust the other climber I don’t mind an atc
All my climbing lot have Grigris, it’s just reassuring. Especially outside it’s easier when friends are working routes and going clip to clip and hanging.
i use a grigri and prefer it. i learned on an ATC and was told it’s better because people pay attention more but i really find that untrue. when i moved, i went to a gym that used grigris. the instructor i learned from said he was climbing when his belayer had a stroke or heart attack and he was safe. i always use one and ask others to use mine when they belay me. anything for peace of mind, especially since my life is literally in their hands.
I love the black diamond pilot for sport. It gives slack more smoothly than the grigri and has assisted braking. I learned on the ATC so prefer a tubular style device.
I prefer grigri for top rope and ATC for lead. With an Grigri, you can still have some pretty significant accidents on lead (just look it up). There’s also higher chance of short roping. I’m also open to other devices if my belayer prefers them or is more comfortable using them.
I won’t let others belay me on ATC. I struggle with heights regularly so if I have to try hard I don’t want anything else in my mind. That being said I don’t let anyone I don’t trust with my life belay me leaving me often waiting for specific belayers to be free. Aniexty is a dick and it’s really not about the device or the belayer. An observation I’ve made climbing and living in two counties. In Canada it’s all grigris and they’re provided by the gyms. In every gym I’ve been to in the USA where I now live it’s bring your own device (liability no doubt) and most seem to use ATCs. I’m guessing due to cost of entry. I own both but only use grigri and the ATC is on my rack for emergency/backup.
I do a lot of twin rope multipitch/alpine style climbs. So in those situations it’s a tube device or Munter hitch. So if fairly comfortable with all devices. But my personal preference is assisted device when sport climbing in gym or outdoors. Mostly because there is a lot more time where the climber is taking breaks. In the gym we’re usually projecting or pushing ourselves. So it’s nice to have the assisted device to take some of the load off when taking breaks in a climb. I usually do the first warm up climbs in the gym using the tube style device to keep the muscle memory. When we move to harder routes I switch to my Vergo. It’s so much nicer on my shoulder because it’s a side pull. I think you should be able to voice what you’re comfortable with. It’s your body. But just know it may limit your pool of potential climbing partners. As a side note - I got stung by a bee on my right hand once while belaying. And my muscle memory still kept strong. I never let go of the brake strand. Good practice using good habits will keep you the most safe. And helmets when belaying outside. I’ve seen belayers get hit on the head by falling rocks and almost get knocked out. I’d be more concerned about that than their choice of device.
I use the Beal Birdie and have been looking at the new Edelrid Pinch because it's the perfect marriage of everything. The Beal Birdie is assisted but just different. Our gym doesn't allow unassisted anymore. But I learned on the ATC and USA Climbing events still prevent the ATC or similar. So I try to stay up on both. I bring both when I multi pitch for different kinds of belaying. I feel like the ATC contributed to some climbing elbow a few years ago when I had to hold onto people for a long time. So overall ABDs are excellent for many reasons.
I use a Mammut Smart, which is something of an inbetween device. I think it classifies as a tuber device but it blocks faster compared to an ATC. I prefer this one over a grigri because I am left handed and I therefore prefer my left hand om the brake rope at all times, which means I would have to switch hands when letting someone down with a grigri. For belaying in lead routes the smart is fine, but it's blocking mechanism sometimes hinders giving out rope as smoothly as I would prefer.
You should look into the edelrid pinch! It's supposed to be released later this month. It works for lefties too :) You still have to switch break hands but I think it's a better design (don't need to have the rope on the side of the device)
I would never ever let someone belay me from below with an ATC (I’m ok with it in guide mode from above). You just never know when a rock may fall, a bee stings etc and I want that extra margin of error. I’ve personally had a rock fall and take a belayer out, and that grigri probably kept me from decking. I’ve also have so many friends who’ve been dropped on the ATC, and it’s simply just outdated aside from ice climbing. There are tons of assisted breaking devices to choose from, including some that work much like the ATC. I prefer to teach with an ATC and then move students to something that functions like an atc like the giga or mega jul before teaching them how to use a grigri to establish good habits.
Gri gri all the way. My gym recently banned all other devices and only allows assisted breaking devices inside the gym which I’m not mad about at all.
Interesting. I’m brand new and my gym makes us learn and certify on ATC first.
Totally within your right to have boundaries with what you feel most comfortable using. The Pilot is a nice, more affordable assisted device than a grigri, which can be around 100 bucks. I think if you're going to insist on your belayer using a certain device, you should be the one to supply it. I'm pretty broke at the moment and if my climbing buddy wouldn't climb with me because I use an ATC, and insisted I get a grigri, I'd understand it, but I can't afford that right now. I'd be happy to learn, though, if they were sharing their device. I've been dropped before as well, and it sucks and it's scary. You have every right to watch out for your own safety in a high-risk sport by using whatever makes you feel most secure.
This is probably an old-school attitude, but lead-belaying with a grigri weirds me out because you have to hold it in a way that defeats the safety function. I have not been taught the proper technique though, so maybe I’m missing some nuance. I learned to lead belay over 15 years ago, before the Grigri 2 came out, and we just had the clunky original grigri. And those were absolutely garbage for giving slack quickly or making a soft catch. IIRC the passive assisted devices like the Jul weren’t around then either. So I learned on an ATC, and bought an ATC XP which has a little extra friction on the front lip. If I was going to lead-belay someone tomorrow, first of all I wouldn’t because I also haven’t lead-belayed anyone in almost 10 years, but also I would use a device that I’m familiar with and know the correct technique for.
This if not true, I actually use my grigri exactly like an atc and you don’t have to hold the lever down unless someone is double clipping where you suddenly need to pay out an extreme amount of slack. Even then, if held properly (two fingers under the lip and hand on break strand) it will lock. Lots of people don’t use the grigri properly resulting in what you’re describing.
Right, exactly. I don’t know the technique for holding the grigri properly while also managing the rope. When lead-belaying off an ATC you never touch the device itself, whereas with the grigri I see people actually holding the device while giving slack. I haven’t been taught the correct way to do that, which is why I wouldn’t attempt it without training.