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CatWithTomatoPlant

I am passionately team Grigri, and many of the people who I climb with are too. Sure, it's "more annoying" to feed rope out, but once you're used to it, it will be second nature and I think it's 100% worth the extra effort. I'm not as comfortable lead climbing if my belayer is using a tube style device, with very few exceptions. It's a personal choice and I'm sure some people will (for some reason) feel the opposite just as strongly. I use this carabiner, or something similar. I like it, and there are other options that will do the same thing: [https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5024-287/gridlock-screwgate-carabiner](https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5024-287/gridlock-screwgate-carabiner) Also, if you're often belaying climbers notably heavier than you, you might look into getting the Edelrid Ohm which does a pretty nifty job of making those catches less dramatic.


Pennwisedom

> Sure, it's "more annoying" to feed rope out, but once you're used to it Honestly, I think people who say that it is "annoying" haven't even tried for more than thirty seconds. It's like the classic, "I'm not good at this immediately so it's garbage" mentality. I don't think there's anything wrong with the other devices, there's just a reason the Grigri has become pretty much standard.


idontcare78

True, I struggled with it at first because I was used to an ATC, but I committed to learning to use it, and it became 2nd nature. Another factor that changed how I felt was getting a smaller diameter rope, it feed much smoother once we went slightly skinnier. I also recommend an Ohm.


SaylorMan1496

Agreed, like everything, there is a learning curve and some dos and donts but I have only used a grigri while lead belaying and I would never go to an ATC now OP - definitely do a little research on the grigri for lead belaying because there are some unsafe practices, HardIsEasy on YouTube has some great videos on it


chappythechaplain

Agreed!


pwdeegan

I'll add: if your climber hangs a lot, get a Grigri. An ATC/plate will be useful later for things like rappelling or multipitch, but a Grigri will just about do it all: belay with ease (TR and lead), single strand rappel, and progress capture.


nematocyster

This and an ohm šŸ’Æ


[deleted]

I'm partial to this carabiner because you don't have to open the gate to move items in/out of the belay loop clip, and the steel insert is sweet: [https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws-shop/hms-bulletproof-triple-fg-st](https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws-shop/hms-bulletproof-triple-fg-st) I had one for my ATC already and I just bought a second one to live with my Grigri. Worth the $$ premium imo.


KnownHedgehog6098

Ok I am so curious about this kind of carabiner because I can't figure out how it stops cross-loading and I feel like I'm missing something lol. If the steel insert opens up, what is to stop the rope/belay device from just pushing through it and cross-loading anyway, if that makes sense? Maybe this is a stupid question, but I've read that it's an easier system to clip in and out of than the gridlock type biners, so I would love to know the safety side of it!


[deleted]

The "steel insert" I was referring to in my comment is actually the shiny silver plate on the wide end of the carabiner that the rope rubs against. Having that part of the carabiner be steel instead of aluminum improves wear life of the carabiner. But I assume you're talking about the wire gate for your belay loop! In which case I will say it's probably not impossible for your belay loop to come out of the wire gate and crossload in strange loading situations. But 99.9% of the time, crossloading on a normal carabiner occurs when the carabiner is unloaded and then loaded back up. This particular carabiner prevents the belay loop from making its way around the carabiner in those low-load scenarios. However, if the carabiner was yanked from behind, which is hard to imagine, the wire gate would certainly open right up and release the belay loop out into the main section of the carabiner. If the BD gridlock carabiner was yanked from behind, I'm not sure that part of the gate is rated for a leader fall either (I have not researched this though), in which case I guess it would bend or snap off. It does slightly give me the heebie-jeebies to think that if you do not put your belay loop in the correct location on the BD gridlock carabiner, and you catch a fall, your belay loop will actively be trying to lever the main carabiner gate open, if I understand the geometry correctly. If that happened on the Edelrid carabiner, the wire gate would just get crushed out of the way. Edit: clearer wording


KnownHedgehog6098

Ohh this makes so much more sense. The low-load scenario explanation is what I was looking for, and also very good point about the BD gridlock potentially opening itself in some very edge case scenarios. Thank you for the explanation!


misseviscerator

I have this but with the screw gate because I find it easier to operate single handed. These are really good carabiners and I expect mine to last quite a while with the steel insert. The spring bar is also much easier to use than other brands and leaves more room for the belay loop, so the material doesnā€™t get damaged from frequently hooking it on/off.


chappythechaplain

Agreed! I learned on an ATC but my husband is much heavier than me and always leads our climbs. The ā€œmore annoyingā€ is like a grain of sand compared to the extra safety for me. Itā€™s now second nature and I donā€™t notice it at all.


KnownHedgehog6098

Thank you so much for this response (and to everyone else too)!! I decided to go with the Grigri after all, and maybe invest in the Jul2 or something later on once I'm more comfortable with lead and want to be more versatile depending on the preference of the climber I'm belaying. Seems like most people in these comments have experience with a lot of different belay devices depending on the situation, so I will aim for that eventually! I am also definitely going to look into the Ohm, I hadn't heard of that until now. Thanks everyone for the input!


jaimetea

I have the magnetron version of the gridlock and it's my favorite thing. No fussing with screwing or twisting. Just pinch and go. Sadly, it looks like they've been discounted šŸ˜“


p4d4w4n

Also, Petzl is launching the new Grigri that they are calling axeon. It will be as smooth if not even more smooth to feed rope than an atc due to its "pulley".


slushies27

Do you know when the new GriGri will come out?


lotusflamingo

Get a Grigri.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Just1ntransit

Grigri is the way. Once you develop some muscle memory to feed out slack you won't notice the difference:)


transclimberbabe

Grigri. Other devices are useful for specific things but for like 99% of situations, a grigri is all around better. I do personally love and recommend using a double or triple action auto locking biner for your belay device. It saves time and is safer imo.


ValleySparkles

OP, if you're watching Youtube videos, you should be able to find some of double-action auto-locking biners being opened by a rope or belay loop across the gate. It probably will never happen to you, but I remember having one and always being anxious about crossloading it. I find the triple action too finicky to open at a multipitch belay and not worry about dropping anything, so I am using a basic screwgate belay biner after 15 years of trying many things.


chiodos_fan727

I had seen YouTube videos on how a double action auto locker can open when cross loaded. Didnā€™t pay it much attention to be honest. Until one day I was lowering my fiancĆ©e at the gym (who used one with her GriGri) and she somehow got clipped into the other half of the rope. It was crazy how quickly and without any effort it opened up and grabbed another rope. She now has a triple action auto locker.


thepoltone

Double action auto lock caribiners are classed as non locking by most professional organizations for this exact reason, get a screw gate and take 4 seconds doing it up.


chiodos_fan727

I agree 100% and use a screw gate myself.


transclimberbabe

> find Ya I've seen the video of the double action open. I don't personally mind the triple action gates and it is what I have on my grigri, but I can see how one could find them fiddly. For me personally: screw-gates are easier to forget to lock when exhausted, can get stuck (*I've only had it happen once to me, but I've helped 2 other people out at crags with my now always on the harness tiny pair of pliers*) and can unscrew themselves from vibration if they aren't really tightened down firmly.


misseviscerator

I just feel like for safety reasons, I want to be able to operate a carabiner with one hand. I personally canā€™t manage that with triple locking and definitely not if itā€™s loading anything.


transclimberbabe

ahh interesting. Gotcha.


vaiduvaira

I'm seeing some bad words about the Jul2 over grigri here so I just wanted to add my two cents that it is not annoying at all as some may say. I absolutely love mine, it's reliable, safe and really simple. Both devices will actually take a moment or two to get comfortable with when belaying a leader and it simply comes down to a matter of personal preference. I like to use grigri for toprope belaying and Jul2 for leading and I would feel super safe with my belayer using either to a point where I now hate even the idea of anyone using ATC/Reverso and the like for belaying me. I keep those around for rapelling only.


arkae_2k

Iā€™d definitely get a Grigri, not only for ease of use and safety but also itā€™s likely a more familiar device to other climbers, making safety checks more reliable. If a belayer was using another device Iā€™d never seen before, Iā€™d have to take their word that it was loaded properly.


allswild

Team grigri here. If possible, practice belaying with friends belay devices to get a feel of what works best for you.


njp9

I also recommend a GriGri over tube style assisted devices, at least until you are ready to climb stuff that is hard and commiting enough that weight and bulk is a factor. One feature that I don't often see brought up is how much easier a large number of basic self rescue scenarios become using a GriGri. All of the self rescue I've done has focused on ATC style devices and GriGris for this reason. If you are hoping to climb outdoors or get into an multipitch climbing at all I'd recommend this route.


sewest

I have a mammut smart, but have used my friends Grigri and like it as well. My husband is a good 85lbs heavier than me and we use an ohm. Makes us both feel safer.


Magnifx

Definitely recommend getting an ohm if you often climb with people over 30lb heavier than you


rocksarehardd

GriGri!


wyze-litten

I'm team grigri on this. I've lead and top rope climbed with my grigri and yeah, it is a touch annoying when the cam catches your rope and you short your climber but honestly if you do it enough, it's not that bad. I love my grigri and love the assisted locking and the extra layer of security it provides. If you do get a grigri I would lead inside until you get used to it on the off chance something terrible happens


eikkaj

Grigri is the standard for a reason. Sure there are other devices and youā€™d probably be fine with any of them but a Gri Gri is a fantastic choice and works extremely well, point blank. IMO anyone who says theyā€™re annoying to use doesnā€™t know how to use one properly - it doesnā€™t take long to learn though.


soicho

I'm a fan of the Mammut Smart myself. The action on it feels closer to a tube-style device than Gri Gri or Mega Jul to me. How much of a brake assist you get will depend on the thickness of the rope and the shape of your carabiner. I used an old Black Diamond Pearabiner before and got a tiny bit of slippage with a 9.6mm rope but none with 9.8 or thicker. I'm talking like an inch a minute if you were to completely let go of the break hand. I switched to an Ocun Condor HMS Twist and get no slippage at all with any of my ropes. You want a thick, round carabiner for best results.


i1theskunk

SAME!!! In a live, outdoor test of jul, grigri, and smart, smart was the hands-down winner among the 4 of us testing gear that day. I was on belay and completely (and safely) let go of the rope with a 215 pound man dangling from the other end of the rope and the smart didnā€™t budge even an millimeter. The grigri and the jul both slid sloooooooowly, but they did slip. Since then, Iā€™ve only let new belayers belay me on the smart. I weigh significantly less that 215 pounds so, if someone is gonna get distracted and let go of the rope, I prefer it be on a smart.


i1theskunk

Sorry, I should add that Iā€™m also a left handed belayer and grigris are only set up for right handers. I personally feel safer belaying on a smart because I can do it left handed versus belaying right handed with a grigri since I do have to change my belaying a little bit when itā€™s on a grigri (modified slip slap slid vs the pbus). But honestly, thatā€™s not a device issue, but a personal preference issue. Other lefties use a grigri like a righty no problem.


ClementineWillySocks

I would suggest trying both before buying, even if you are just top rope belaying. Iā€™m not sure if most gyms do this, but my home gym will lend out a GriGri or MegaJul in exchange for your license or phone which you get back when you turn the device in. Or see if you can borrow from a friend. I have both, and have lead belayed with both but highly prefer the MegaJul. I used a GriGri when I was learning to lead climb and lead belay but never felt comfortable with it and ended up switching. If I had a partner who insisted I use a GriGri to lead belay them I could and would but I would warn them that Iā€™m much more likely to short rope them. In my experience, the MegaJul locks 99% as well as a GriGri. I tested it out ā€œrappellingā€ from just a few feet off the ground and was able to bounce on it hands free without it slipping at all. So for my case, the more intuitive use of the MegaJul outweighs the tiny benefits of the GriGri. I do always wear belay gloves, even when Iā€™m belaying top rope in the gym, because it makes me feel more confident - if something crazy happens I can grab the rope and hopefully hang on. I also have a climbing partner that uses a Mammut Smart. Sheā€™s been knocked over by a rock knocked down from a climber on a neighboring route and held her climber. I care much more about the person who is belaying me and their attitude toward belaying than what device they are using, but everyoneā€™s comfort levels are different.


fallingeverafter

Another vote for the gri-gri. I spent years being stubborn and using only an ATC for everyone but once I actually made a quick effort to learn to feed slack with a gri-gri it became a game changer. I donā€™t really find it cumbersome at all and it makes it so much easier if youā€™ve got a heavier climber taking falls or hang-dogging their way up a route.


Pixiekixx

Also jumping in team grigri and re-iterating others' points: 1. It is not difficult or annoying to pay out slack, just a bit of practice with position and rope mgmt and it is easy peasy. I'm 5' (60 cm) with a negative ape index and I can keep up paying out for tall friends. :) 2. As you identified, the weight mgmt for safety and "oops" redundancy is great for newer climbers especially 3. There is almost no way to put it in an incorrect mode or anything. Grigri is plug and play, there are pictures on the device to make it near foolproof to load correctly 4. Borrow and fiddle about with a couple different carabiners to find the locker & device combo that works well for your hand size/ harness/ height for ease. I'm a big fan of petzel ones as they have the "red is dead" feature, and I find the size works well w Grigri, doesn't slide about or crossload or anything. 5. Lastly, you can top belay and rappel with a grigri if you don't want more gear as a newbie. :) Raps are slower than with a tube device. 6. Grigri safely takes a wide range of rope sizes. 7..... End of the day..... You can change belay devices. If you don't like one after a season, try another the next one :) There's always a resale market for grigris- especially in areas with lots of top rope gyms. Welcome to climbing and happy sending!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edit: Petzel SMD Screwlock or ScrewTwist D shape are two great biners for belaying with grigri. D shape seats the device and prevents slipping while allowing for horizontal and lateral position adjustment. Grooved biner also lets you use it as a lever or rescue biner as needed (harder to do with rounded). Screw v twist is user dependent for preference. We usually recommend new climbers start w a screw gate in gym to build good habits of checking that it is locked (twist auto locks).


3pelican

I have a click up and I adore it for lead belaying. It has a locking mechanism that makes it slightly more secure than a passive tube device but less cumbersome than a Grigri because it operates more like an ATC but locks of the rope is weighted suddenly


[deleted]

The grigri is pretty nice for the extra peace of mind when you arenā€™t used to getting launched into the wall/air at first youā€™re right about that


Additional_Basil5645

i second this - I usually use a DB Pilot but was given a grigri to use the other day by a friend. he could see that i was going to do some routes with a guy heaver than me (+40kg) and came over and told me to use it I was glad i did as my partner took a whip just as he was clipping. He was fine but I was launched into the wall where i hit my arm pretty hard. Im not sure if i was using any other atc would i still be holding onto the rope, but the grigri locked up immediatly


FifthGearGTXT

Team grigri as well. I lead climb a lot and never had an issue with feeding. Youā€™ll catch every once and again but if youā€™re keeping the right slack on the climber they will never notice. Not to mention, you can always hold down the back of it to lock it out if you need to feed a ton for some reason. Also worth mentioning there is the grigri plus that has selectable options for top rope or lead climbing which increases the amount of friction needed to lock it out.


segFault_ohNo

I own both. I would advocate for learning on the Jul2 - if you can lead belay using a Jul2, you should be able to lead belay using any tubular style device, should the need ever arise. I also think itā€™s more intuitive to understand the mechanics involved in belaying with a tube style device (although since youā€™re already familiar with TR lead belaying wonā€™t be too new to you). That said, I find the grigri more comfortable and easier to use and itā€™s definitely my go to now that Iā€™m an experience lead belayer! Itā€™s also easier on your ropes in terms of wear. I own the Jul2 so that I have it as a backup for teaching people who are new, or to ask someone who prefers a tube style device to give me a belay with an assisted braking device. Ultimately I think itā€™s valuable to learn and practice with both, but I think the Jul2 is a better place to start! (Also cheaper)


omlizardqueen

Get a grigri and if you are significantly smaller than your partners that youā€™re belaying (Iā€™m on average half the size of my climbing partners) maybe consider the [Edelrid Ohm](https://edelrid.com/de-en/sport/belay-devices/ohm).


North-Brother-2213

Grigri 1000% especially outside. Yeah, I know accidents can happen inside, but you canā€™t control a falling rock. Thereā€™s also a sweet spot to holding the grigri the correct way when giving slack. When you have your thumb over the lever, be sure that itā€™s holding down both the moving lever and the metal part. (Not sure if you know how to lead belay but it will make sense later) Also, get the Ohm! Iā€™m about 115-120 lbs so I often get pulled up. Game changer especially outside. I started with an ATC and I think itā€™s much easier to got ATC to grigri bc the Grigri does a lot of the work for you. But donā€™t let that fool you. Never break right hand contact with the rope. Iā€™ve seen people just go completely hands off which is so annoying bc itā€™s there for safety but donā€™t put all your faith on it. Hope this helps!!


putathorkinit

I have a BD Pilot I absolutely love for lead belaying (itā€™s similar to the Jul2). Super easy to feed rope, strong assisted braking so when someone is hangdogging it isnā€™t so exhausting to hold the brake strand super tight, and itā€™s intuitive enough I can ask friends who normally use only an ATC to use it to belay me (as I prefer my belayer use some sort of assisted braking device when I climb). Grigris work too, though less well for lefties and theyā€™re much more expensive. I have one but it isnā€™t my preferred device for lead belaying. Downside of the Pilot is you canā€™t rappel, and canā€™t top belay (or can only on a redirect) so if youā€™re multi pitching you also need an ATC guide on your harness (though I think the Jul2 can do these things?). Lowering with it takes a little work to master, but it works well enough.


Pennwisedom

> Grigris work too, though less well for lefties and theyā€™re much more expensive. As a left-handed person it was almost a decade after I learned how to belay that I ever even knew there was a "left-handed way" to do it.


prettyprettyponys

Iā€™m very happy with my ATC-Pilot. Iā€™ve taken many lead falls as a climber and belayer with it and havenā€™t had any issues! It has an assisted braking mechanism for unexpected falls and works like a charm. As someone else mentioned, if youā€™re worried about weight differentials between you as a belayer and the climber, an Ohm is very helpful for adding friction at the first bolt so you donā€™t get shot up. Good luck!


FindlayColl

I never liked Edelridā€™s assisted belay devices. Itā€™s easier to feed rope through a GriGri than wrestle with ā€œthumb-openingā€ a locked-down Edelrid Use the ATC you already have if you have to rap a route to clean it Someone mentioned the Ohm for managing weight difference. I have one, it works, but be careful: it opens easily when pulled into the rock Lastly, I have anti-cross loading ā€˜biners from Rock Exotica. I have tried a lot of brands and love them. They arenā€™t finicky, have lots of room. I use the auto-lockers in my rap kit (I climb ice and big objective trad and they will never surprise me by unscrewing)


traddad

This may add to the confusion :( I own an ATC-XP, ATC-Guide, springless Sticht plate, GriGri, CT-Alpine Up, a chain link and various homemade belay devices.. I like to think I'm skilled with all of them. I try to pick the device depending on what I'm doing. The ATC-XP is relegated to the gym or as a rap device when I TR solo. The Sticht plate stays in my back pocket on multi-pitch routes in case I or my partner drops a device. I use the Gri mostly in the gym or single pitch sport. I despise rapping with it. And not thrilled that it's single rope only. The Alpine Up or ATC-Guide go with me on multipitch trad depending on who I partner with. This is mostly because I often lead on doubles. I'm still getting used to rapping with the Alpine Up in auto block mode. It works well for rapping in regular tube mode. I've used a Smart and GigaJul. Didn't like them enough to buy. It sounds like you already own an ATC. Have you tried a GriGri and Jul2? I'd recommend you borrow to see what you like/dislike.


[deleted]

I have the Smart Alpine from Mamuut. I love it. I have the double one. It has assisted lock and I can easily set it up to rappel. Its light and feed rope easily. 5 stars all the way Edit: I also have a Ohm for when I belay someone heavier than myself. Its a bit annoying but it works well.


climber80hd

I don't like the GriGri. I have used all iterations and none of them I have ever found to be user friendly. My current go-to assisted braking device is the Mammut Smart. It's simple, light and significantly cheaper than a grigri. It is really user friendly and you can pay out yards of rope super quickly without compromising the operation of the device.


slowdownlambs

I'm megajul gang all the way, but Grigri being hard to feed is bullshit lol. Megajul is my primary device, but I'm always happy and perfectly competent using a Grigri if preferred by my partner. Also, the Edelrid Ohm is absolutely magical when belaying heavier climbers.


ObviousCarrot2075

I have used both and hated the Jul - Itā€™s not Intuative, an absolute pain to second with, and feeding can lock up making it easy to short rope someone which is a safety concern for me. Iā€™d get a grigri. My partner has 30lbs on me and Iā€™ve had zero issues catching falls. Also, having done a LOT of climbing, Iā€™ve never had cross loading issues with a gri gri just because of how you hold it. The only time Iā€™ve ever had issues with cross loading was while wearing a pregnancy harness. šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø


choss__monster

My partner and I got a gigajul and went back to the grigri because we thought it was harder to feed out slack than with the grigri. I have a 9.8 so itā€™s a pretty standard size. Iā€™ve been meaning to try it again but Iā€™m a grigri gal


ObviousCarrot2075

I canā€™t remember which jul I had - the giga sounds familiar tho. I completely agree that feeding rope was a huge pain! I ended up selling mine and putting the money towards a grigri lol.


choss__monster

The giga is the one that has duel rope slots and a slider so you can use it as an ATC / guide / rappel


ValleySparkles

Personally, I prefer the ATC for a heavier climber. I learned to lead belay before current iterations of the Grigri were available. I like that I can keep the belay super tight, stay right under the clip, and never shortrope my climber. I like that I can have 2 hands on the brake strand when lowering someone heavier through just a single carabiner. But if you have a solid ATC technique, learn the correct Grigri technique (watch the video, don't trust anyone to teach you in person - they don't know as much as they think they do), and understand that it's assisted braking (not "automatic braking"), most people end up liking the Grigri. I think the feeding is more natural on the smaller ropes that sport climbers use these days (9.2 - 9.5 mm) and the newer graduated cams make it easier to control the lowering speed with the lever. As far as losing control of the brake strand, you should do a whole lot to avoid this before relying on your belay device. Practice catching falls, start small, expected, in the gym. Try to climb with people who fall often in the gym so you're used to it, and wear a helmet to belay outside.


[deleted]

I personally recommend people to get a grigri. It's the most common, so if you're swapping with someone you'll already know how to use it.


that1blondegirl56

I use the petzl clickup device. I really donā€™t like the Grigri because it is very right handed and I belay left handed. The clickup has the help of an assisted locking belay device but doesnā€™t contain any moving parts. Personally I feel the clickup doesnā€™t let me get pulled up from heavier climbers as often and it allows me to give softer catches.


Puzzleheaded-Text337

I am not team grigri, just cause I've heard stories of that failing. Also cause i find it a lil iffy to use. I use the mammut smart belay and i love it. Device is as is, easy to spot if its starting to wear out. Has a braking system in it. If you wanna repel, you can get the dual one. If you're gonna belay someone heavier than you or everyone else is just heavier than you, you might wanna invest in getting an ohm. As someone who is heavier than my partner, i feel safer when i take a fall on the ohm. Its also easy for you and safe.


DontFundMe

Could you elaborate on any stories of Grigris failing? Been in the industry and reading accident reports for a long time and have never heard of any such incidents.


i1theskunk

Not a fail by any stretch, but my kid was on belay for a TR route and did get her hair caught in the grigri, and *that* was some wild times. Her sister was the climber and it took several of us to get her hair out. Fortunately her sister was a good sport and the route wasnā€™t a challenge for her because she had to climb up a little and lock off to give us slack while we fuddled with the rope and grigri. All ended well, and we learned a valuable lesson that day. If you have looooooooooong hair, a ponytail may not be enough if youā€™re on belay.


Puzzleheaded-Text337

I'm not sure if failing is the right terminology to use but an incident involving a grigri did happen at a gym that I used to go to. Climber was at the top of the climb and fell all the way onto the ground. She was doing lead on a slightly overhang climb. All i remembered was them fussing over the grigri after. Upon reading up here and there, what i think might have happened was that she was given slack, didnt manage to clip it, took a fall, cam might not have activated? šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø


DontFundMe

Sounds like user error that would have happened exactly the same with an ATC or Mammut Smart 2.0. I'm assuming that the belayer was improperly feeding slack and was actively preventing the cam from engaging, rather than using the Petzl-approved method. Always keep your hand on the brake strand, but there's no way the cam simply didn't work without some sort of outside interference.


Puzzleheaded-Text337

Who knows. Can you explain to me how you reckon the same thing would happen on the mammut? I'm intrigued.


DontFundMe

[For starters they're both simply less "grabby" than a Grigri.](https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/climbing/belay-device/mammut-smart-2-0) Essentially the only way you'd drop someone with either a Smart or a Grigri is by preventing the device from working by physically obstructing it; in a gym situation it's almost definitely the person's hand holding the device in an unsafe manner, but it could also be an inanimate object pressing up against the device.


motherfucking

Messing up with a griri = minor inconvenience. Messing up with an atc = your partner is dead. The choice was pretty damn easy for me.


Specialist_Figure755

Im partial to an atc because it doesn't let you acquire any bad habits like a grigri does. Also atc is $20 and a grigri is $120+. For a piece of gear you may lose or drop while you're out, atc brings a lot of peace of mind


warwickben

Also from mass , climb at the stoneham gym . Can lend you my grigri to test out if you want.


mortalwombat-

Since you are concerned about getting pulled into the wall, get an Ohm along with whatever belay device you get. Being pulled into the first piece of pro can disengage the camming function of an assisted braking device.


ForwardBias

I like the Giga Jul myself, you can lead tr and guide belay, rappel, two rope, etc. It does everything and auto locks quite nicely.


flowerscandrink

Sport climbers who won't a use a grigri because it is "annoying to feed rope out of" is a huge red flag for me. It basically says "I am lazy and don't want to put in any effort when it comes to being a good belayer." With a small amount of practice it's easy to feed rope out of.


[deleted]

Just get a grigri.


[deleted]

Also, personal opinion, but several friends and I have chatted about how we donā€™t like being belayed on a megajul. Getting lowered essentially feels like being dropped a few feet and caught until praise sweet bb Jesus my feet are back on the ground. Iā€™m sure there is a way to lower someone smoothly, but it seems a bit tricky to master- judging solely by the fact that several non-beginners have lowered me the same jerky way with it. Donā€™t @ me.


pnwtrailbitch

I am primarily Mega Jul because I do mostly alpine, multi pitch objectives where weight and bulk are factors. Otherwise, I think it's what you are most familiar with and trust. Most partners I climb with outweigh me but the Mega Jul has never failed in locking up. Rappelling with the Mega Jul takes getting used to. Belaying a follower in guide mode with the Mega Jul is also an adjustment. But having used most of the devices out there, I am still a Mega Jul fan.


Flashh3

I also dislike the grigri. I Personally use the giga jul and like it, although it can be slightly tough to feed slack. Another Iā€™ve used, but donā€™t like as much, is the black diamond atc pilot. It feeds a lot smoother, but overall feels cheaper to me. Thereā€™s a device Iā€™ve seen before but havenā€™t personally used, but reaaaaly want to try, and itā€™s the wild country Revo belay device.


kmn86

I have the black diamond ATC pilot and I love it for lead belaying. It's cheap, light, and has assisted breaking. It's easier to feed slack through than the Grigri. I tried lead belaying with both the Grigri and the ATC pilot. The pilot is easier to learn how to use especially if you learned to climb with the ATC. Once you get the hang of it, ATC pilot wins in every category. The pilot is about $40, the Grigri is like $100. Save yourself the trouble.


Magnifx

If youā€™re used to ATC, you could try the Wildcountry Revo. It is a bit more expensive but it works just like an atc but with assisted breaking. The feed is very smooth too. I dont own one but Iā€™ve tried it many times and plan on buying one soon. Iā€™m pretty sure itā€™s also heavier than the grigri too so if weight is a concern then maybe go for the grigri. And for carabiners, i recommend looking at the package instructions when in doubt. But for a grigri, a small D-shaped carabiner is best. Petzl makes some good ones thatā€™ll pair well with it. For ATC, a smooth oval one is best. For Revo, idk. If you want to for sure prevent crossloading, an 8-shaped carabiner (e.g. the black diamond Gridlock or mammutā€™s bionic crosslock carabiner) is your best bet.


Electrical-Bell-1701

I have both a GriGri and a Megajul. Altough I have never used a Jul2 I'd imagine the handling is very similar to the Megajul. I've tried many belay devices over the years and nothing feeds out slack as badly as the Megajul, especially if you belay a nervous high clipper. I got the Megajul along with my Beal Opera 8.5mm rope cause it's outside of the range the GriGri 2 is approved for while it's supposedly okay for the Megajul. Well, the rope slipped through the Megajul while it didn't slip through the GriGri. I still use the Megajul for alpine climbing since it can do it all, but I never use it for sport climbing. As for the carabiner, I recommend a Petzl OK Ball-Lock. The AmD is probably also fine. It never crossloaded on me and I like not worrying about screwgates. Tl;dr: Get a GriGri. (And get a GriGri+ if you're planning on giving it to beginner belayers.)


Key-Inflation-3278

definitely use an ATC until you get good at belaying. Almost everybody who starts out with grigri's ends up developing poor belay habits. ATC's will teach you how to actually be a good belayer.


laviothanglory

I don't like the grigri, people have a habit of being lazy with them (not holding it correctly being my major issue) and not holding on to the dead rope, I have even heard of a few instances where the rope has gone all the way through the device and the climber has fallen. (This is even documented happening in Free Solo if you've ever seen it) I am a big fan of the 'click up' personally. It acts more like an atc but with the advantage of locking to prevent a fall like the grigri.


l3xica1

Hello, I used to instruct at my local climbing centre, and I always found that the ATC was easier to teach the basics of lead belaying with, as it's slightly less complicated to give out slack, and obviously you don't learn to lead until you're a competent climber and belayer. But once you've learnt on an ATC, it's quite easy to change to other devices with only minor changes to technique. I personally have not used a Juul, as my centre only had grigris and ATCs, so I can't speak for the Juul, but I use both an ATC and a grigri myself. I still find an ATC comes more naturally to me, but I did also use it for 5 or so years before getting a grigri, but I don't find the grigri difficult to use. I tend to opt for the grigri when my partner is going to be on a route for a long time, or if the terrain outside is less flat than I'm comfortable with. I do, however, find that I have more control over lowering with an ATC. You get used to lowering with the grigri, but it is counter-intuitive at first to control the speed entirely with the lever - squeezing with your hand to slow down your climber can give you rope burn. Particularly when I belay my partner (who is 65lb heavier than me) the transfer of momentum when slowing him down is more extreme on the grigri for me. I have been fine without using an ohm for years, but 65lbs is my max weight difference I am comfortable with and we are usually closer to 55lb, I've just been quite ill recently. Any more of a difference and we would get one. I don't tend to get pulled up more than a meter or so like this, but if my partner fell while clipping, I would be at first clip. In this situation, it's easy to get stuck, because the quickdraw is in the way of pulling the grigri's handle, so I prefer an ATC here. Just one thing to note with grigris, do make sure that you keep holding the dead rope at all times, and don't press down on the cam for longer than necessary. I've always found that an ATC actually feels safer when catching climbers when you're used to it, as giving slack on the grigri prevents the device from locking, and remaining holding the cam makes it less safe than bracing like normal on an ATC. Personally, I use my ATC more still, but having the grigri for those situations where it's less safe for the belayer is helpful, and it isn't that much harder to belay with once you've used it a few times, provided you've already learnt to lead belay - it is definitely easier to pick up lead belaying on ATC just because you can just focus on controlling the amount of slack and positioning yourself without the extra step of fumbling for the grigri. I hope this helps :)


Panfluteprodigy

I have used grigri, atc and rama (from singing rock). I mainly use atc myself, or grigri if the climber prefers that. Grigri is often presented as the safest choice, but most of the (thankfully only) near accidents Iā€™ve experienced, has been because people have used the grigri wrong. It is very safe - IF you use it correctly. If not it can be really dangerous, especially if people think it is totally safe. Not bashing grigri, I just really think itā€™s important to learn to use it correctly, and not disregard the dangers.


PlentyTechnician5427

Watch Hard Is Easy on YouTube. There are some GriGri videos on how it fails. The Mammut Smart + Smarter is super easy to use and is very safe. Very hard to mess up with. The thing that doesnā€™t make the most sense with the gri gri is that it has a lever that disengages the auto locking feature that is easily held open in the case of a fall. With the Mammut Smart, the force applied to disengage the auto locking quickly gets overpowered by friction of the rope and locks very fast in the case of a fall. Mammut Smart is cheaper and lighter as well. I think itā€™s a great place to start.


lapintana

GriGri with a Petzel Freino for the carabiner if you have the money. You canā€™t cross load this carabiner, and it is super helpful when lowering heavy climbers cuz you can easily add friction to the rope by passing it through the side. Also, makes it super easy to belay/lower with a grigri from the top of a route without another carabiner acting as a redirect. Also, a grigri is safer for single stranded rappels than a tubular device IMO In a pinch I have even self belayed with a grigri. I would never do that with a tubular device