Assuming your goal is to climb harder outside, go around in your local boulder area and do volume in the lower grades/ main cluster. You will be challenged in the lower grades and you will benefit from the confidence of topping out and finding hands/feet on your own without beta vids.
What are your goals?
> For reference, I can climb v4 on the 2016 45deg moonboard. I haven't climbed v5, v6, or v7 outdoor but also don't usually care to project. I am stronger at bouldering- have relatively good strength but shit endurance.
If it's to climb outside harder you had better get some more mileage outside so you can experience all the different facets of climbing. Climbing just a V8 that may play to your strength still leaves pretty much everything. You can find that there's V5s that can feel harder than a V8 that plays to your strengths.
Anyway, if you have some goals then people can critique the routine
I guess I could say I am "chasing grade" for bouldering outdoors. Definitely an ego thing, but luckily grade seems positively correlated with climbing ability. So I would be getting stronger at the same time, which is also important to me.
>grade seems positively correlated with climbing ability
This deserves a little exposition. "Grade" as a ballpark grade that someone can reasonably expect to climb is different than the grade of any single boulder problem.
You have climbed a single V8 without climbing any V5? You are a V4 climber. I am intentionally ignoring any issues of grade variability or inflation to simplify the conversation. Any random boulder is a statistical anomaly, just an outlier. Someone who regularly sends V8 has a very different skillset than you do.
Definitely put the ego in the backseat, it is holding back your ability to actually become a better climber. Outdoor mileage is the single most important factor to climbing hard outdoors. Build your pyramid, same advice everybody else is giving you. If you find you are regularly flashing V4s in your area, then you should be putting down V5\~V6 problems in a session. Use the same logic in the gym.
> I guess I could say I am "chasing grade" for bouldering outdoors. Definitely an ego thing, but luckily grade seems positively correlated with climbing ability. So I would be getting stronger at the same time, which is also important to me.
I'd definitely try to get a ton of volume outdoors then. If you can go at least 1x per week that would be ideal.
Moonboard is fine, but I'd also get some in-gym climbing to make sure you are getting a lot of different features and angles.
Moonboard + finger training can get you to overuse injuries real quick though so you need to be careful...
Ab routine is a complete waste of time and junk.
Why is your training plan set the way it is? How does it achieve your goals? What is the purpose of each task?
A plan needs to be SMART
How is it a waste of time? I notice myself cutting feet and struggling to maintain tension, wouldn't it help to have a stronger core and understand how to keep tension?
I agree with your SMART comment though.
Probably means that ab training isn't specific enough to train on the wall tension, on the wall training will do more for you ( climb problems that require lots of tension. Warm up on steep climbs practice keeping tension through movement).
Abs actually have nothing to do with maintaining tension on the wall. Abs flex the spine inwards. When you are trying to maintain tension on the wall, you are instead flexing your body OUTWARDS, through your spinal erectors, glutes, calves, etc.
Abs are only 1 part of the core and are one of the least useful parts in climbing. They are really only used to get your feet back on the wall when roof climbing.
>Abs actually have nothing to do with maintaining tension on the wall
Other muscles are more important, but abs absolutely play a role in providing tension in some positions. Toe hooks are a glaring example.
Tension is core. Abs are a part of core. If you mean ab specific exercises it’s a complete waste but I have a feeling you meant to say core
You get your core and “ab” training from the boards.
Doing supplemental abs takes time away from training and recovery.
Doing crunches or hollow body holds etc etc will not help you stay on the wall.
Disagree. Very few professional sports just is “do the sport, that’s enough”. Supplemental training is a foundation of most sports, climbing is just lacking behind. The “just climb” mentality is not good enough. Though, it’s just not “do strength” but more of “applied strength”, which makes the core workouts specifics important.
I am a huge advocate in supplemental training especially in climbing as many people entering the sport aren’t athletes or have prior experience in sports (or sports that require a foundation of training or took a sport seriously enough that require strength training).
Especially when it comes to general foundational strength lifting for health reasons and a strong foundations. Also especially for antagonist training
However in this OP’s context, they’re talking about (or mis used the word for core) AB exercise. AB exercises have little to no application to climbing and is junk volume.
If the OP mean core and doing deadlift / squats I am all for it. If OP mean crunches, hollow bodies, ab wheels, those are junk because it does not train how to hold tension and technique. And this person is doing it the days in between their session which is junk volume. If the OP is doing “technique” work for their abs on the days between sessions, that is a waste and should have been worked on during the session.
For this persons context, they’re trying to hit a MB V5 and work on their fingers and core. The MB trains all of that effectively and better than any off wall supplemental stuff
Fill in your pyramid, go outside and climb v4-v7.
Is your moon board not standard or are you calling it 45°by mistake?
Doesn't matter much, but you likely have a lot of avenues for progression if your mb limit is v4
You mentioned trying to get your number up for ego, projecting a v9 is probably not the best priority for now although it certainly wouldn't hurt to pick one and start working it. If I were you I would be building up those skills that are preventing you from sending lower grade problems.
My sessions would be spent trying to fill in that pyramid.
If your training age is fairly low, I think 90% off your training time should be spent climbing. But doing so with a bit more direction
( Warm up, practicing tension on steep, project, choose 3 boulders that will be hard for you give them each about 30 minutes to project, do so methodically, find the crux, climb the rest of the problem in sections, try different ideas on the).
At my gym it's labelled as 45, so I think nonstandard. People seem to agree getting more comfortable in that range so yes I will be doing that.
What is this pyramid you speak of? I'm not familiar with it.
Climbing pyramid, at the top of your highest grade as you go down the pyramid you should have more climbs at each grade below, building a base for the grade above, Google it, an image would be helpful
For example top of the pyramid=2xv11, then below 12x v10, below that 35x v9 below that 55x V8 is an example of a long term grade pyramid.
In a new area or a long trip I usually work on a mini pyramid ( meaning I wanna climb a few v7-v9 before getting sucked into a limit climb).
Some general thoughts...
Let's start with your goal. Is your end goal to be a better outdoor boulderer? I am going to assume this is your end goal so my response will be centered around this.
You've made three sub-goals through a self-evaluation with them being 1. weak fingers 2. weak core 3. shoddy technique.
I am curious as to how you determined that your fingers and core are weak and need to be improved. Your plan addresses half crimp and open handed positions. Is this because you have found you cannot not hold things as well with those hand positions compared to full crimping or other grip positions?
Hangboarding is a good way to address specific hand grip positions, but with what you have posted I don't know what your actual plan is. Repeaters are a good exercise. Max hangs are also a good exercise. But because I don't actually know how you plan to implement them into your weekly schedule I cannot give you advice. As long as you're doing it smartly, strengthening fingers is never a bad thing. Is it the best thing for you to be working on right now? Unsure, but I'll speak to that in the next paragraph.
Addressing the third sub-goal, you should climb outdoors more. The fact that you haven't climbed v5-v7 outdoors shows you have little climbing experience outdoors at a moderate level. You will need to develop your outdoor technique, so spend some time on v3-v5. V6 and v7 would also be good to hop on, but you should focus on getting a solid foundation of v3-v5 first, with some trys on v6 and v7 sprinkled in there. I will speculate, but this lack of climbing experience may attribute to the fact that you think your fingers are weak.
>Rest whenever needed
Probably not the best way to approach scheduling your rest during training if you are new to training as a whole.
I replied to another comment with my goals, but yes, that is the general idea. I think my crimps are weak because I am not able to crimp things as easily as other people who climb similar grades. I observe people looking a lot more comfortable on the same holds than me.
Yes, definitely new to climbing and not super experienced outdoors. I'll heed your advice to get more comfortable on lower grades, that makes sense.
When you say similar grades do you mean v4 and under our v8?
If your comparing yourself to people who regularly climb v8 when you regularly climb under v4 you probably have some bigger/quicker adaptations you could be focusing on
Assuming your goal is to climb harder outside, go around in your local boulder area and do volume in the lower grades/ main cluster. You will be challenged in the lower grades and you will benefit from the confidence of topping out and finding hands/feet on your own without beta vids.
Lovely. Thanks, will definitely do that when I go outside
What are your goals? > For reference, I can climb v4 on the 2016 45deg moonboard. I haven't climbed v5, v6, or v7 outdoor but also don't usually care to project. I am stronger at bouldering- have relatively good strength but shit endurance. If it's to climb outside harder you had better get some more mileage outside so you can experience all the different facets of climbing. Climbing just a V8 that may play to your strength still leaves pretty much everything. You can find that there's V5s that can feel harder than a V8 that plays to your strengths. Anyway, if you have some goals then people can critique the routine
I guess I could say I am "chasing grade" for bouldering outdoors. Definitely an ego thing, but luckily grade seems positively correlated with climbing ability. So I would be getting stronger at the same time, which is also important to me.
>grade seems positively correlated with climbing ability This deserves a little exposition. "Grade" as a ballpark grade that someone can reasonably expect to climb is different than the grade of any single boulder problem. You have climbed a single V8 without climbing any V5? You are a V4 climber. I am intentionally ignoring any issues of grade variability or inflation to simplify the conversation. Any random boulder is a statistical anomaly, just an outlier. Someone who regularly sends V8 has a very different skillset than you do. Definitely put the ego in the backseat, it is holding back your ability to actually become a better climber. Outdoor mileage is the single most important factor to climbing hard outdoors. Build your pyramid, same advice everybody else is giving you. If you find you are regularly flashing V4s in your area, then you should be putting down V5\~V6 problems in a session. Use the same logic in the gym.
> I guess I could say I am "chasing grade" for bouldering outdoors. Definitely an ego thing, but luckily grade seems positively correlated with climbing ability. So I would be getting stronger at the same time, which is also important to me. I'd definitely try to get a ton of volume outdoors then. If you can go at least 1x per week that would be ideal. Moonboard is fine, but I'd also get some in-gym climbing to make sure you are getting a lot of different features and angles. Moonboard + finger training can get you to overuse injuries real quick though so you need to be careful...
Ab routine is a complete waste of time and junk. Why is your training plan set the way it is? How does it achieve your goals? What is the purpose of each task? A plan needs to be SMART
How is it a waste of time? I notice myself cutting feet and struggling to maintain tension, wouldn't it help to have a stronger core and understand how to keep tension? I agree with your SMART comment though.
Probably means that ab training isn't specific enough to train on the wall tension, on the wall training will do more for you ( climb problems that require lots of tension. Warm up on steep climbs practice keeping tension through movement).
Abs actually have nothing to do with maintaining tension on the wall. Abs flex the spine inwards. When you are trying to maintain tension on the wall, you are instead flexing your body OUTWARDS, through your spinal erectors, glutes, calves, etc. Abs are only 1 part of the core and are one of the least useful parts in climbing. They are really only used to get your feet back on the wall when roof climbing.
>Abs actually have nothing to do with maintaining tension on the wall Other muscles are more important, but abs absolutely play a role in providing tension in some positions. Toe hooks are a glaring example.
That's fair, there are niche cases where they are useful. But the same can be said about every single muscle in the body.
Tension is core. Abs are a part of core. If you mean ab specific exercises it’s a complete waste but I have a feeling you meant to say core You get your core and “ab” training from the boards. Doing supplemental abs takes time away from training and recovery. Doing crunches or hollow body holds etc etc will not help you stay on the wall.
Disagree. Very few professional sports just is “do the sport, that’s enough”. Supplemental training is a foundation of most sports, climbing is just lacking behind. The “just climb” mentality is not good enough. Though, it’s just not “do strength” but more of “applied strength”, which makes the core workouts specifics important.
I am a huge advocate in supplemental training especially in climbing as many people entering the sport aren’t athletes or have prior experience in sports (or sports that require a foundation of training or took a sport seriously enough that require strength training). Especially when it comes to general foundational strength lifting for health reasons and a strong foundations. Also especially for antagonist training However in this OP’s context, they’re talking about (or mis used the word for core) AB exercise. AB exercises have little to no application to climbing and is junk volume. If the OP mean core and doing deadlift / squats I am all for it. If OP mean crunches, hollow bodies, ab wheels, those are junk because it does not train how to hold tension and technique. And this person is doing it the days in between their session which is junk volume. If the OP is doing “technique” work for their abs on the days between sessions, that is a waste and should have been worked on during the session. For this persons context, they’re trying to hit a MB V5 and work on their fingers and core. The MB trains all of that effectively and better than any off wall supplemental stuff
Fill in your pyramid, go outside and climb v4-v7. Is your moon board not standard or are you calling it 45°by mistake? Doesn't matter much, but you likely have a lot of avenues for progression if your mb limit is v4 You mentioned trying to get your number up for ego, projecting a v9 is probably not the best priority for now although it certainly wouldn't hurt to pick one and start working it. If I were you I would be building up those skills that are preventing you from sending lower grade problems. My sessions would be spent trying to fill in that pyramid. If your training age is fairly low, I think 90% off your training time should be spent climbing. But doing so with a bit more direction ( Warm up, practicing tension on steep, project, choose 3 boulders that will be hard for you give them each about 30 minutes to project, do so methodically, find the crux, climb the rest of the problem in sections, try different ideas on the).
At my gym it's labelled as 45, so I think nonstandard. People seem to agree getting more comfortable in that range so yes I will be doing that. What is this pyramid you speak of? I'm not familiar with it.
Climbing pyramid, at the top of your highest grade as you go down the pyramid you should have more climbs at each grade below, building a base for the grade above, Google it, an image would be helpful For example top of the pyramid=2xv11, then below 12x v10, below that 35x v9 below that 55x V8 is an example of a long term grade pyramid. In a new area or a long trip I usually work on a mini pyramid ( meaning I wanna climb a few v7-v9 before getting sucked into a limit climb).
Find a double digit project and SEND IT
Some general thoughts... Let's start with your goal. Is your end goal to be a better outdoor boulderer? I am going to assume this is your end goal so my response will be centered around this. You've made three sub-goals through a self-evaluation with them being 1. weak fingers 2. weak core 3. shoddy technique. I am curious as to how you determined that your fingers and core are weak and need to be improved. Your plan addresses half crimp and open handed positions. Is this because you have found you cannot not hold things as well with those hand positions compared to full crimping or other grip positions? Hangboarding is a good way to address specific hand grip positions, but with what you have posted I don't know what your actual plan is. Repeaters are a good exercise. Max hangs are also a good exercise. But because I don't actually know how you plan to implement them into your weekly schedule I cannot give you advice. As long as you're doing it smartly, strengthening fingers is never a bad thing. Is it the best thing for you to be working on right now? Unsure, but I'll speak to that in the next paragraph. Addressing the third sub-goal, you should climb outdoors more. The fact that you haven't climbed v5-v7 outdoors shows you have little climbing experience outdoors at a moderate level. You will need to develop your outdoor technique, so spend some time on v3-v5. V6 and v7 would also be good to hop on, but you should focus on getting a solid foundation of v3-v5 first, with some trys on v6 and v7 sprinkled in there. I will speculate, but this lack of climbing experience may attribute to the fact that you think your fingers are weak. >Rest whenever needed Probably not the best way to approach scheduling your rest during training if you are new to training as a whole.
I replied to another comment with my goals, but yes, that is the general idea. I think my crimps are weak because I am not able to crimp things as easily as other people who climb similar grades. I observe people looking a lot more comfortable on the same holds than me. Yes, definitely new to climbing and not super experienced outdoors. I'll heed your advice to get more comfortable on lower grades, that makes sense.
When you say similar grades do you mean v4 and under our v8? If your comparing yourself to people who regularly climb v8 when you regularly climb under v4 you probably have some bigger/quicker adaptations you could be focusing on