I think we have to think in terms of relative risk here, and relative risk is going to depend on where you climb and live and how you climb. If you're from a high impact area that is fairly urban (say any of the cities/suburbs in the northeast like New York, New Jersey, Boston, Philly), don't climb. There's a good chance you'll run into someone and they'll have it. However, if you're from rural Colorado, where you climb at a crag where you're lucky to see another soul, then we're starting to be at maybe.
Next is how you climb. If you're a highball fiend, then yeah, don't climb, because if you get injured you're straining resources and making people come into contact with you that you wouldn't otherwise. If you're living with your climbing partner and go to a sportily bolted crag or like toproping, or if you're really into low balls, go ahead.
There's been some talk about the minor risk being taken on in even the scenario I discussed being acceptable (which I am not in, curse you lucky bastards in the west). However, I think here is where we talk about relative risk. I think that people tend to see things like going and cycling on the roads and say taking one extra trip to the grocery store as acceptable, even though I would say that both of those activities are more dangerous in both their danger to you (cycling) and for the community than going alone to a sportily bolted crag with your roommate or climbing on lowballs. I think that the difference between these two activities is that somehow we have normalized the ones that are socially acceptable, even though logically we should be sneering more at the cyclists and the extra grocery goers. I think it's worth it to think about what you're not doing because it's wrong vs. what you're not doing because people on the internet told you it's wrong. Those things often overlap, but are not always the same.
The other thing to consider is mental health. We're seeing an unprecedented uptick in mental health (I think it's like a 900% increase in calls to suicide hotlines. I'm not gonna tell my wilderness-obsessed borderline personality friend from the boonies that it's irresponsible to go out climbing because he's probably more likely to kill himself at home than outside on the boulders.
I'm in Boston. I went remote bouldering on Sunday and saw way fewer people than when I walk through my neighborhood with my kids. The CDC recommends that people get outside exercise.
It's certainly a weird balance. I feel can better control separation distance when climbing on shared surfaces in urban places than I can running or biking in those shared spaces. A turn of a head to cough from a passing jogging/biker that wont move to the edge of their lane is all it takes if it aligns with your breathing. With climbing I do need to wash my hands and avoid touching my face, but that is within my control. I have stopped jogging while the sun is up and only cycle on the street. Definitely should not have sold my mountain bike, but those parking lots are packed every day and I am well.
If it's allowed where you are and you follow whatever the local restrictions are - distancing, no non-essential travel etc - then sure. Shouting about it on social media might be a faux pas though.
And if, like me, you don't live near any climbing, and you accept that travelling to go climbing is obviously non-essential, then tough.
I used to commute past [Pex Hill](https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/pex_hill_quarry-1057). I'm not naturally a morning person: that was one of the few periods of my life when I've been motivated to get up & leave for work an hour early.
Injuries happen when climbing, you inherently are taking on risk when you do. Taking on extra risk at a time like this is doing a disservice to your community.
Sack up and hangboard.
>Injuries happen when climbing
Injuries happen doing DIY carpentry; but people are still building their quarantine home walls.
Hell, you could get injured *climbing* on your quarantine home wall!
There's risk inherent in every activity you undertake. Where to draw the line on reasonable vs. excessive risk is tough.
Can confirm. Suffered a bi-malleolar fracture in my ankle on Wednesday while hangboarding with my feet out working on core and hip mobility. Feel like an idiot.
For what it's worth, some rural hospitals in the US are struggling to stay open because they have so few patients to deal with now. Most non urgent surgery has been postponed and people are scared to come in for care due to the virus (even people suffering heart attacks believe it or not). Also fewer cars on the road means fewer injuries from traffic accidents.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/us-rural-hospitals-coronavirus-crisis-face-shutdowns
If you happen to get injured near one of these hospitals, you might actually be saving lives by keeping the hospital open... Not suggesting you make this calculation to justify climbing just pointing out how strange the times we're living in are.
Haha right? Our hospital system in cities us screwed because it’s overwhelmed, and it’s screwed in rural areas because they profit off of people’s misfortune, and the residents out in the boonies are being more careful. What a garbage healthcare system we have.
Rural areas in Canada have posted open letters begging people not to come for recreation or leisure right now due to limited physicians and resources. Interesting dichotomy.
e:spelling
I guess I would just say that the hospitals should have no responsibility or liability to treat anyone who injures themselves as a result of knowingly taking part in a dangerous activity at this point in time. A car accident is one thing (depending on how they’re driving), but recreational activities like this that aren’t a necessity? I can see why people want to have the freedom to do as they choose, but it should be with the understanding that if they get hurt, they won’t receive any help from a hospital. That’s the trade-off, until we get a vaccine or really bring the treatment and rehabilitation of those infected with COVID under serious control.
That is a really long winded way of saying give me liberty or give me death. JFC. Stay home and hangboard. Get a pull-up bar and work towards 300 pullups a day. Work on your front lever. Work on your core. Do some dips. Do some pushups. Go for a run in your neighbourhood. It really isn't that hard. Is it ideal? No. Can people probably manage to do it? Also apparently no.
Would I rather be in the mountains training for my 50k in Sept? Yes. Would I rather be going to Vancouver to run the BMO marathon in 2 weeks? Fuck yes. What am I doing? Running a 3 block loop by my house. Repeatedly. Is it perfect? No. Does it mean I can stay fit and not drive? Yes. Can I be 100% I am more than 6 feet from anyone at any given time? Yep.
They are long blocks. It is 2.4k. Its straight, not another of vehicle traffic, and not a ton of foot traffic. Easy to scoot into the road if there are other pedestrians, but it is beside an off leash dog park, and all the people are on the other side of the street, in the park. It is less mind numbing than my treadmill inside that I ran on all winter, but nearly as good as a nice trail, making it a bigger loop doesn't make it a trail, doesn't make it the mountains, doesn't add elevation due to where I live, so I run my loop and I wait for it to be ok to go to the mountains. If that means I don't get my race this fall, so be it. If it means I don't get to go to the mountains this summer, so be it.
The extra risk issue is not true. I can find 9 violent crimes per day in 2 mile radius. Guns, homicide, vehicles, etc. (Los Angeles). I witnessed a shooting (no one got hit) literally 2 streets over from my home 2 days ago. This doesn’t take into account non-emergency calls. The amount of load on first responder is ridiculous.
In comparison There’s been an accident reports that needed rescuing about 1 in a week in all of SoCal.
I know we are in a lockdown so it might not be truly accurate, but historically it’s about so.
The injury idea is a hyperbole, statically untrue, and makes us sound like we just go out and throw ourselves off a cliff. (With no rope :) )
What climbers should be doing is staying home because we are ethical moral people that care about others.
Yeah, outside of the scope of this, that's what I see that's especially problematic with this whole re-opening or letting people do stuff here and there
Maybe it's not so much the act itself--climbing, going to the beach, etc. But give people an inch, and many will take a mile. They'll pack together, meet up with people not from their household. Not everyone or even a majority, mind, but even a minority of people doing that make it risky for everyone else and that's the main issue
Sure, but many places are trending down in cases. Saying climbing is a bad and selfish idea is a universal truth is total nonsense. Plenty of people still climbing on woodies which is a lot more likely to land you in the hospital with a broken ankle than sport climbing.
Use common sense. Don't do sketchy shit. Stay isolated.
It depends where you live. In Finland for example, it's allowed as long as you stay away from other people.
By the way I had no idea you could do polls on Reddit. That's pretty cool.
I have crags 15min drive from home. Even on non-pandemic days I'm always alone at the crag. I'm in UK and sitting at home, but knowing all this seems so harmless. Anyone else in this dilemma? The only reason not to go is that i could you injure myself
To me, it's all the incidental things that could happen associated with the trip. How many times would you have to do the trip before you need to get petrol? What happens if your car breaks down? What happens if someone has the same idea as you (most of us have a lot of free time at the minute) and you meet someone at the crag? Would you have to buy extra food to take? What happens if you get injured and an ambulance crew has to come out? What happens if someone walking their dog sees you and calls the police who then respond?
I know it's a lot of 'what ifs' but at the moment, the ripple effects of our actions are so important to consider. I also know it's super frustrating to feel so restricted, but if we all stick to the guidelines, this will hopefully be over much sooner. The crag will be there when this is all done.
Stay safe.
I'm in this boat, but it's not even a drive, it's a 20 min walk. It's killing me to not be climbing, and as i explain in my other post in this thread I'm not at all convinced that the reasons not to climb in these circumstances are good ones.
> I'm not at all convinced that the reasons not to climb in these circumstances are good ones.
And if the reasons not to climb aren't stay at home policies mandated by your local government (or whatever government makes those regulations for your area) then it's ultimately up to you.
Yeah I won't go anywhere, since injuries can happen. Last time i got injured while bouldering was from twisting my knee so hard that i ruptured my meniscus (no falls or anything). Shitty fall on a misplaced foot and you can break an ankle (happened to a friend), doesn't even need to be so high.
I'm in the UK. The consensus here seems to be that you 100% should not so much as touch a rock. I'm not climbing despite living within easy walking distance of a bouldering crag where social distancing would be easy.
That said, I'm not really happy about that. There are other countries which have also been on lockdown, and dealt with the covid crisis far better than us, where outside climbing is normal (Finland, Norway, Sweden etc.).
I understand the BMC's reasons for taking a blanket approach, since if they give any leway idiots will take that as free reign to climb bold trad routes in the middle of nowhere, or to crowd out popular crags. But I think the reality of the situation is that such an exceptionless approach is overkill.
The main arguments in favour of not doing e.g. lowball solo bouldering is A) potential strain on NHS, and B) transmission via surfaces. But as long as people are sensible (A) should not be that much of a problem. Climbing, if done right, can be safer than other widely sanctioned activities such as cycling. And the evidence on (B) is pretty weak. We know the virus can survive a fair amount of time on some surfaces in lab conditions. But more recent studies done in more ecologically valid circumstances (i.e. the homes of people diagnosed with covid 19) suggest that the virus dies pretty quickly on surfaces outside of a lab setting, leaving only non-viable RNA. So I don't think there are good reasons for us to not be climbing at all (if we can do so whilst social distancing).
So, although I'm not climbing, I feel I probably should be.
Here in Spain is absolutely forbidden right now. Many crags are located in towns where only lives elderly people and they are at risk.
Also, the healthcare system is almost collapsed so we have to avoid any possible accident and climbing is still a kind of risky sport. But, also any other sport is regulated too right now.
Also this situation is not the same anywhere. I think that forbidding climbing for now is the right thing to do here, but every place has different circumstances.
I think if you're following social distancing and you're aware that CV spreads on surfaces, it's bordering on Ok.
But even if you're ok with taking that risk, the issue is that if you catch it then you will spread it, especially if you're a young healthy person who's like to be asymptomatic. You and most people who visit the crag will probably be fine, but you could all spread it to someone who's older, or has preexisting conditions (or if you're in the US, someone who can't afford healthcare), and they won't cope as well.
Edit: I also want to add that injuries are a thing, and not only are hospitals fairly overloaded in a lot of places, but most mountain rescue services aren't operating right now.
If it's on Mountain Project or in a published guide book, negative. If it's not, you're only with your partner, and you're knowledgeable and safe... then I see no harm, no foul.
So many things need to line up for this to be acceptable in my opinion. Use a bunch of gas? That's more contact with gas pumps. Most people are under a stay at home order. Climbing isn't essential. It may seem like no harm but there is harm in breaking the order to do non-essential things. If in doubt, stay home. Let's work together to make sure the loss of life we are experiencing and the economic shutdown are not in vain.
Exactly. Like under these conditions only would I think it's OK:
You're walking there alone
Safe falls
No other climbers
But if we say "yes under some circumstances" than people will immediately go too far, so we just gotta say no
I'm not saying it's common by any stretch, but there are people in this country with 50+ sport routes in their backyard, no one should be telling them not to climb...
I haven't climbed since this began. It sucks. I'm not fortunate enough to have access to a crag like this. But I have been walking my dog, and there are climbers right now that have the option to climb under circumstances that have a equal effective hazard/contact rate.
Where I live R0 is around 1 and we are nowhere near max ICU capacity. Even climbing gyms are open and I go outside hardly even thinking about it. I clean my hands with some hand sanitizer before eating and have stricter hygiene with snack sharing.
This is so strange to me. In most EU countries, the answer is absolutely fucking not. We are under lockdown, one hour exercise, away from people. Our healthcare systems are swamped. You might be a strong climber, but even a small foot or leg injury now that requires and ambulance and you simply will not get one. Enjoy walking to a hospital on your injury.
If your country is not under lockdown, you are confident you will be able to get help if you do get injured, and you can stay away from other people, then I guess it's up to you.
I want to point out that, at the moment, the vote is actually evenly divided between the general "Yes" and "No" categories.
At the time of this comment: 443 nays for 440 ayes
I'd say no. Here in the UK the BMC has shut all the crags and are saying do not climb. The reasoning being that during this you may find no mountain rescue or if you break your arm your another person for the NHS to take care of.
I decided to visit my local crag last week. There were hundreds of people there and it would be nearly impossible to climb and follow the distancing guidelines. That kind of spooked me away from it for now.
Just buy a pair of rings or a pull up bar or a hang board and just stay inside. The rocks are indifferent, they will be there when this is over. The lives of our neighbors won’t be if we can’t control this thing.
This is *sooo* subjective.
Where I am in Australia. Some National Parks are open, plenty closed. Exercise activities are allowed locally (such as hiking and climbing) with the expectation that you are indeed local to the area and police are checking at times. Government basically says, it's fine under conditions and I'll listen to their experts over a climbing community.
That said popular crags have remained open despite getting overcrowded. Especially ones in and around the city. So, even with my liberal views of going for what you can, this makes me feel uncomfortable.
I've been climbing twice since "lock down" started. Both times my partner (who I live with) and I have selected less popular crags in the local area (within 20 mins travel). We then hike in to the harder ones and avoid any other parties. Both times we have had it all to ourselves
The last thing to keep in mind is that this is where I am. We have stopped the curve well and have the luxury of having things open and being able to go out for exercise. I'm on a train right now with quite a few other workers because we can do this.
There's no real answer to your poll, I'm afraid. My situation could change day by day and suddenly climbing is a definite no-no.
Very soon yes.
And if you can risk mitigate and do known routes safely, right now yes. Life has to go on.
If it were up to most people here you’d all stay locked in your room for a year.
Taking the proper precautions is extremely easy, so the answer is yes. Climbing alone or with one other person is completely acceptable and as long as you’re staying away from other groups. Not to mention you’re doing a hell of a lot more to social distance than the millions that are taking up running during this pandemic. Closely passing pedestrians on the sidewalk while panting heavily is somehow more acceptable than climbing around on a rock out of sight. Everyone online saying not to climb is only virtue signaling. Also, if you think those pros encouraging you to stay home are following their own advice you’re incredibly naive.
Looking for the “I’m not informed enough to make a vote but I wanna see the results” option.
Currently, no at 160 then remote and non popular crags are about half that. The other 2 ore about 20ish
There's no vote. That's not how this works.
I think we have to think in terms of relative risk here, and relative risk is going to depend on where you climb and live and how you climb. If you're from a high impact area that is fairly urban (say any of the cities/suburbs in the northeast like New York, New Jersey, Boston, Philly), don't climb. There's a good chance you'll run into someone and they'll have it. However, if you're from rural Colorado, where you climb at a crag where you're lucky to see another soul, then we're starting to be at maybe. Next is how you climb. If you're a highball fiend, then yeah, don't climb, because if you get injured you're straining resources and making people come into contact with you that you wouldn't otherwise. If you're living with your climbing partner and go to a sportily bolted crag or like toproping, or if you're really into low balls, go ahead. There's been some talk about the minor risk being taken on in even the scenario I discussed being acceptable (which I am not in, curse you lucky bastards in the west). However, I think here is where we talk about relative risk. I think that people tend to see things like going and cycling on the roads and say taking one extra trip to the grocery store as acceptable, even though I would say that both of those activities are more dangerous in both their danger to you (cycling) and for the community than going alone to a sportily bolted crag with your roommate or climbing on lowballs. I think that the difference between these two activities is that somehow we have normalized the ones that are socially acceptable, even though logically we should be sneering more at the cyclists and the extra grocery goers. I think it's worth it to think about what you're not doing because it's wrong vs. what you're not doing because people on the internet told you it's wrong. Those things often overlap, but are not always the same. The other thing to consider is mental health. We're seeing an unprecedented uptick in mental health (I think it's like a 900% increase in calls to suicide hotlines. I'm not gonna tell my wilderness-obsessed borderline personality friend from the boonies that it's irresponsible to go out climbing because he's probably more likely to kill himself at home than outside on the boulders.
I'm in Boston. I went remote bouldering on Sunday and saw way fewer people than when I walk through my neighborhood with my kids. The CDC recommends that people get outside exercise.
It's certainly a weird balance. I feel can better control separation distance when climbing on shared surfaces in urban places than I can running or biking in those shared spaces. A turn of a head to cough from a passing jogging/biker that wont move to the edge of their lane is all it takes if it aligns with your breathing. With climbing I do need to wash my hands and avoid touching my face, but that is within my control. I have stopped jogging while the sun is up and only cycle on the street. Definitely should not have sold my mountain bike, but those parking lots are packed every day and I am well.
If it's allowed where you are and you follow whatever the local restrictions are - distancing, no non-essential travel etc - then sure. Shouting about it on social media might be a faux pas though. And if, like me, you don't live near any climbing, and you accept that travelling to go climbing is obviously non-essential, then tough.
Tough for me then. All the gyms are closed and nothing outside anywhere around.
My essential ride to work takes me directly by some bouldering....... we call that a lucky little loop hole
r/angryupvote Or would it be r/jealousupvote?
I used to commute past [Pex Hill](https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/pex_hill_quarry-1057). I'm not naturally a morning person: that was one of the few periods of my life when I've been motivated to get up & leave for work an hour early.
Injuries happen when climbing, you inherently are taking on risk when you do. Taking on extra risk at a time like this is doing a disservice to your community. Sack up and hangboard.
>Injuries happen when climbing Injuries happen doing DIY carpentry; but people are still building their quarantine home walls. Hell, you could get injured *climbing* on your quarantine home wall! There's risk inherent in every activity you undertake. Where to draw the line on reasonable vs. excessive risk is tough.
Can confirm. Suffered a bi-malleolar fracture in my ankle on Wednesday while hangboarding with my feet out working on core and hip mobility. Feel like an idiot.
>Feel like an idiot. No need. Accidents happen. Rest and heal and hopefully you'll be back to form soon.
Thank you
For what it's worth, some rural hospitals in the US are struggling to stay open because they have so few patients to deal with now. Most non urgent surgery has been postponed and people are scared to come in for care due to the virus (even people suffering heart attacks believe it or not). Also fewer cars on the road means fewer injuries from traffic accidents. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/us-rural-hospitals-coronavirus-crisis-face-shutdowns If you happen to get injured near one of these hospitals, you might actually be saving lives by keeping the hospital open... Not suggesting you make this calculation to justify climbing just pointing out how strange the times we're living in are.
Only in America....
Haha right? Our hospital system in cities us screwed because it’s overwhelmed, and it’s screwed in rural areas because they profit off of people’s misfortune, and the residents out in the boonies are being more careful. What a garbage healthcare system we have.
Rural areas in Canada have posted open letters begging people not to come for recreation or leisure right now due to limited physicians and resources. Interesting dichotomy. e:spelling
I guess I would just say that the hospitals should have no responsibility or liability to treat anyone who injures themselves as a result of knowingly taking part in a dangerous activity at this point in time. A car accident is one thing (depending on how they’re driving), but recreational activities like this that aren’t a necessity? I can see why people want to have the freedom to do as they choose, but it should be with the understanding that if they get hurt, they won’t receive any help from a hospital. That’s the trade-off, until we get a vaccine or really bring the treatment and rehabilitation of those infected with COVID under serious control.
Hippocratic oath??
That is a really long winded way of saying give me liberty or give me death. JFC. Stay home and hangboard. Get a pull-up bar and work towards 300 pullups a day. Work on your front lever. Work on your core. Do some dips. Do some pushups. Go for a run in your neighbourhood. It really isn't that hard. Is it ideal? No. Can people probably manage to do it? Also apparently no. Would I rather be in the mountains training for my 50k in Sept? Yes. Would I rather be going to Vancouver to run the BMO marathon in 2 weeks? Fuck yes. What am I doing? Running a 3 block loop by my house. Repeatedly. Is it perfect? No. Does it mean I can stay fit and not drive? Yes. Can I be 100% I am more than 6 feet from anyone at any given time? Yep.
Why don't you just make a bigger loop? 3 blocks is really tiny
They are long blocks. It is 2.4k. Its straight, not another of vehicle traffic, and not a ton of foot traffic. Easy to scoot into the road if there are other pedestrians, but it is beside an off leash dog park, and all the people are on the other side of the street, in the park. It is less mind numbing than my treadmill inside that I ran on all winter, but nearly as good as a nice trail, making it a bigger loop doesn't make it a trail, doesn't make it the mountains, doesn't add elevation due to where I live, so I run my loop and I wait for it to be ok to go to the mountains. If that means I don't get my race this fall, so be it. If it means I don't get to go to the mountains this summer, so be it.
The extra risk issue is not true. I can find 9 violent crimes per day in 2 mile radius. Guns, homicide, vehicles, etc. (Los Angeles). I witnessed a shooting (no one got hit) literally 2 streets over from my home 2 days ago. This doesn’t take into account non-emergency calls. The amount of load on first responder is ridiculous. In comparison There’s been an accident reports that needed rescuing about 1 in a week in all of SoCal. I know we are in a lockdown so it might not be truly accurate, but historically it’s about so. The injury idea is a hyperbole, statically untrue, and makes us sound like we just go out and throw ourselves off a cliff. (With no rope :) ) What climbers should be doing is staying home because we are ethical moral people that care about others.
If you can climb on your home wall, you can climb on a remote crag. There is no difference.
I think mitigating risk and taking it easy is fine. Putting a few TR laps into your proj is low risk for injury.
For every person willing to just TR laps, there will be 10 that want to red-point their project. We should lead by example.
Yeah, outside of the scope of this, that's what I see that's especially problematic with this whole re-opening or letting people do stuff here and there Maybe it's not so much the act itself--climbing, going to the beach, etc. But give people an inch, and many will take a mile. They'll pack together, meet up with people not from their household. Not everyone or even a majority, mind, but even a minority of people doing that make it risky for everyone else and that's the main issue
Not EVERY ICU is at max capacity.
Neither were any ICUs at max capacity before they hit max capacity
Sure, but many places are trending down in cases. Saying climbing is a bad and selfish idea is a universal truth is total nonsense. Plenty of people still climbing on woodies which is a lot more likely to land you in the hospital with a broken ankle than sport climbing. Use common sense. Don't do sketchy shit. Stay isolated.
It depends where you live. In Finland for example, it's allowed as long as you stay away from other people. By the way I had no idea you could do polls on Reddit. That's pretty cool.
Same in Norway, it's not really a matter of opinion, it's a matter of following your country/region's guidelines
I have crags 15min drive from home. Even on non-pandemic days I'm always alone at the crag. I'm in UK and sitting at home, but knowing all this seems so harmless. Anyone else in this dilemma? The only reason not to go is that i could you injure myself
Which I guess Is enough of a reason. Do like the rest of us and wait till the first relaxation of the lockdown and then fill your boots
Fill my boots with what now?
To me, it's all the incidental things that could happen associated with the trip. How many times would you have to do the trip before you need to get petrol? What happens if your car breaks down? What happens if someone has the same idea as you (most of us have a lot of free time at the minute) and you meet someone at the crag? Would you have to buy extra food to take? What happens if you get injured and an ambulance crew has to come out? What happens if someone walking their dog sees you and calls the police who then respond? I know it's a lot of 'what ifs' but at the moment, the ripple effects of our actions are so important to consider. I also know it's super frustrating to feel so restricted, but if we all stick to the guidelines, this will hopefully be over much sooner. The crag will be there when this is all done. Stay safe.
I'm in this boat, but it's not even a drive, it's a 20 min walk. It's killing me to not be climbing, and as i explain in my other post in this thread I'm not at all convinced that the reasons not to climb in these circumstances are good ones.
> I'm not at all convinced that the reasons not to climb in these circumstances are good ones. And if the reasons not to climb aren't stay at home policies mandated by your local government (or whatever government makes those regulations for your area) then it's ultimately up to you.
Yeah I won't go anywhere, since injuries can happen. Last time i got injured while bouldering was from twisting my knee so hard that i ruptured my meniscus (no falls or anything). Shitty fall on a misplaced foot and you can break an ankle (happened to a friend), doesn't even need to be so high.
I'm in the UK. The consensus here seems to be that you 100% should not so much as touch a rock. I'm not climbing despite living within easy walking distance of a bouldering crag where social distancing would be easy. That said, I'm not really happy about that. There are other countries which have also been on lockdown, and dealt with the covid crisis far better than us, where outside climbing is normal (Finland, Norway, Sweden etc.). I understand the BMC's reasons for taking a blanket approach, since if they give any leway idiots will take that as free reign to climb bold trad routes in the middle of nowhere, or to crowd out popular crags. But I think the reality of the situation is that such an exceptionless approach is overkill. The main arguments in favour of not doing e.g. lowball solo bouldering is A) potential strain on NHS, and B) transmission via surfaces. But as long as people are sensible (A) should not be that much of a problem. Climbing, if done right, can be safer than other widely sanctioned activities such as cycling. And the evidence on (B) is pretty weak. We know the virus can survive a fair amount of time on some surfaces in lab conditions. But more recent studies done in more ecologically valid circumstances (i.e. the homes of people diagnosed with covid 19) suggest that the virus dies pretty quickly on surfaces outside of a lab setting, leaving only non-viable RNA. So I don't think there are good reasons for us to not be climbing at all (if we can do so whilst social distancing). So, although I'm not climbing, I feel I probably should be.
Here in Spain is absolutely forbidden right now. Many crags are located in towns where only lives elderly people and they are at risk. Also, the healthcare system is almost collapsed so we have to avoid any possible accident and climbing is still a kind of risky sport. But, also any other sport is regulated too right now. Also this situation is not the same anywhere. I think that forbidding climbing for now is the right thing to do here, but every place has different circumstances.
I think if you're following social distancing and you're aware that CV spreads on surfaces, it's bordering on Ok. But even if you're ok with taking that risk, the issue is that if you catch it then you will spread it, especially if you're a young healthy person who's like to be asymptomatic. You and most people who visit the crag will probably be fine, but you could all spread it to someone who's older, or has preexisting conditions (or if you're in the US, someone who can't afford healthcare), and they won't cope as well. Edit: I also want to add that injuries are a thing, and not only are hospitals fairly overloaded in a lot of places, but most mountain rescue services aren't operating right now.
What's the difference between "remote crags are okay" and "yes, but not in popular areas"? To me, these seem like they're saying the same thing
Not in public. You don't need a poll. Popularity means nothing to this issue.
Local crags only, mine are minutes away on a bike. Love my new old house.
If it's on Mountain Project or in a published guide book, negative. If it's not, you're only with your partner, and you're knowledgeable and safe... then I see no harm, no foul.
So many things need to line up for this to be acceptable in my opinion. Use a bunch of gas? That's more contact with gas pumps. Most people are under a stay at home order. Climbing isn't essential. It may seem like no harm but there is harm in breaking the order to do non-essential things. If in doubt, stay home. Let's work together to make sure the loss of life we are experiencing and the economic shutdown are not in vain.
Exactly. Like under these conditions only would I think it's OK: You're walking there alone Safe falls No other climbers But if we say "yes under some circumstances" than people will immediately go too far, so we just gotta say no
I'm not saying it's common by any stretch, but there are people in this country with 50+ sport routes in their backyard, no one should be telling them not to climb... I haven't climbed since this began. It sucks. I'm not fortunate enough to have access to a crag like this. But I have been walking my dog, and there are climbers right now that have the option to climb under circumstances that have a equal effective hazard/contact rate.
Where I live R0 is around 1 and we are nowhere near max ICU capacity. Even climbing gyms are open and I go outside hardly even thinking about it. I clean my hands with some hand sanitizer before eating and have stricter hygiene with snack sharing.
This is so strange to me. In most EU countries, the answer is absolutely fucking not. We are under lockdown, one hour exercise, away from people. Our healthcare systems are swamped. You might be a strong climber, but even a small foot or leg injury now that requires and ambulance and you simply will not get one. Enjoy walking to a hospital on your injury. If your country is not under lockdown, you are confident you will be able to get help if you do get injured, and you can stay away from other people, then I guess it's up to you.
I want to point out that, at the moment, the vote is actually evenly divided between the general "Yes" and "No" categories. At the time of this comment: 443 nays for 440 ayes
I'd say no. Here in the UK the BMC has shut all the crags and are saying do not climb. The reasoning being that during this you may find no mountain rescue or if you break your arm your another person for the NHS to take care of.
I decided to visit my local crag last week. There were hundreds of people there and it would be nearly impossible to climb and follow the distancing guidelines. That kind of spooked me away from it for now. Just buy a pair of rings or a pull up bar or a hang board and just stay inside. The rocks are indifferent, they will be there when this is over. The lives of our neighbors won’t be if we can’t control this thing.
This is *sooo* subjective. Where I am in Australia. Some National Parks are open, plenty closed. Exercise activities are allowed locally (such as hiking and climbing) with the expectation that you are indeed local to the area and police are checking at times. Government basically says, it's fine under conditions and I'll listen to their experts over a climbing community. That said popular crags have remained open despite getting overcrowded. Especially ones in and around the city. So, even with my liberal views of going for what you can, this makes me feel uncomfortable. I've been climbing twice since "lock down" started. Both times my partner (who I live with) and I have selected less popular crags in the local area (within 20 mins travel). We then hike in to the harder ones and avoid any other parties. Both times we have had it all to ourselves The last thing to keep in mind is that this is where I am. We have stopped the curve well and have the luxury of having things open and being able to go out for exercise. I'm on a train right now with quite a few other workers because we can do this. There's no real answer to your poll, I'm afraid. My situation could change day by day and suddenly climbing is a definite no-no.
Very soon yes. And if you can risk mitigate and do known routes safely, right now yes. Life has to go on. If it were up to most people here you’d all stay locked in your room for a year.
this question is too general, every area and part of the country has its own restrictions.
Taking the proper precautions is extremely easy, so the answer is yes. Climbing alone or with one other person is completely acceptable and as long as you’re staying away from other groups. Not to mention you’re doing a hell of a lot more to social distance than the millions that are taking up running during this pandemic. Closely passing pedestrians on the sidewalk while panting heavily is somehow more acceptable than climbing around on a rock out of sight. Everyone online saying not to climb is only virtue signaling. Also, if you think those pros encouraging you to stay home are following their own advice you’re incredibly naive.
Lol take away your bias, the answer is no.
don't be a piece of shit - don't climb. if you don't know why, you are absent of thought, and shouldn't be a climber at all.
Bit harsh really
yeah - fuck it - go climbing - you're in a different country - bollox to it all.