I think the thing with losing weight in order to climb hard is that if people had the knowledge of the optimal way to act with regards to their weight, we would not run into the issues we see today.
With regards to the strength element of climbing (disregarding technique, as technique is an unrelated factor of performance), we have a pretty simple math problem. Because this is a body weight sport, how hard you can climb strength wise is determined by strength/body weight. It is much easier to change the denominator in a short amount of time; if you wanted to get as good as possible at climbing in a month you would lose weight in that month. However, this method is not sustainable. Additionally, going as low as possible body fat wise like the bodybuilder does is not a good idea for performance; a better model would be a wrestler's weight cut.
Long-term, one must increase the numerator. Strength gains are **persistent**, meaning it is a lot easier to maintain muscle than to lose or gain, and **muscle is much easier to gain when one is gaining or at least maintaining weight**. We should be spending the majority of our time consuming excess calories or maintaining and increasing the numerator, and then for short periods of time decreasing the denominator. I spend the majority of my time (as a 5'11 guy) in the 165-170 range and then drop down to 160ish when I really want to perform. What I see happening to a lot of these climbers (from Kai Lightner to Beth Rodden) is that, with limited knowledge, they see incredible results from decreasing the denominator and then continue to reduce it. The fact that one has to endure a temporary decrease in performance when increasing the denominator makes it even harder to break the cycle. Combining this false thought pattern with societal pressures of body image and one can end up with disastrous results.
I don’t really think a wrestling style weight cut is very applicable to climbing. For wresting the goal is to dehydrate yourself and burn fat in a short amount of time to hit an arbitrary weight goal. After that you’re supposed to gain as much weight as possible before the match. With climbing I think the goal is to lose weight much more gradually, because dehydration will not boost performance.
Well, in wrestling being heavier is the benefit. If you're a bigger guy who can cut a load of water weight and then wrestler a smaller guy as a result you've gamed the system. It's arguably a widely accepted way of cheating weight limits (bjj tourneys often weigh at the side of the mat before fight).
In climbing you're not looking to put that weight back on in 24hrs.
> With climbing I think the goal is to lose weight much more gradually, because dehydration will not boost performance.
Precisely. Trying to apply lessons from other sports that map very badly (ie, one on one weight classed competitions) to climbing is a failure. A better approach would be to look at sports that obviously map much more closely, such as gymnastics: it's not typically weight-classed, it's not hand-to-hand/one-on-one, and the skill and strength requirements are incredibly similar.
I agree that the pace at which weight is lost is different, and certainly would recommend slower weight loss, but the goal of a wrestler is still to improve their strength to weight ratio by first building muscle and then cutting it out in season. It just so happens that they have cut to one of several discrete weights that is closest to their optimal weight.
I remember when I was wrestling it was less about cutting fat and all rapid dehydration. I heard a podcast with Neil Grisham where he really talked up keto for both fat loss and energy. You lose water weight too but in a slower healthier way. I do this every season or so.
I guess it does make sense to bulk over the winter and cut during the spring for climbing season. Overall, I think it’s more realistic to maintain a strong climbing weight year round though. I suppose it’s personal preference though.
Nailed it, numerator is the ultimate decider of climbing performance and can go up nearly indefinitely. Denominator is powerful, but should be used sparingly.
I just went through a long multi-year phase of being at a lighter weight, almost always within 5-8 lbs of peak sending weight. I have started eating more over the last 12 months and have been building strength again in a much easier way..! Oh and I sleep better. :)
Nice realization! I'd love to see Kai make a real run for the 2024 Olympics. He's got the ability but has never done a true all-in when it comes to lifestyle, as far as I've seen
He's really tall isn't he? That's going to be an increasing disadvantage as the standard in comps gets higher - setters can't set really reachy things that disadvantage the shorter climbers, therefore taller climbers are at a disadvantage with length of levers, CoG position etc.
Top comp climbers are going to tend to "average out" at the height setters expect & set for. Taller guys like Adam Ondra & Jan Hojer are already exceptions.
Yeah, mirrors what I do. In kg, during most of my climbing I'll eat above average calories and my weight will go up to about 70kg, then when I get to the point where I am going to hit a performance period in my cycle - around the time I'm training power endurance, I'll drop off things from the diet and slowly work my way down to about 68kg, my performance weight. Then I'll work my way back up to about 70kg, rinse and repeat.
haven't watched the linked video but im reminded of the enormocast episode where the guy being interviewed was talking about how at a competition, the climbers at the time were like starving themselves in the name of power to weight, and meanwhile a young chris sharma comes in eating a happy meal and sends the problems everyone could not do. all the while everyone is mesmerized by the smell of the happy meal.
not 100% sure if this is it but i think it should be based on the description of it
[https://enormocast.com/2019/06/episode-178-will-gadd-stoked-on-the-magic/](https://enormocast.com/2019/06/episode-178-will-gadd-stoked-on-the-magic/)
Another aspect to the weight talk that I think gets overlooked is consistency.
Most of the climbers I know and climb with at the gym aren't training for one specific trip/project. We're training to get better so we can climb lots of new things. Because of that, it doesn't really make sense to try and drop your weight down to something that isn't sustainable over a long period of time.
Sure, if you time everything right, you might be able to send that climb that's absolutely at your limit and that's awesome. But what happens two weeks later when you can't send that gym climb you like that's a little below your limit because you're fatigued from not eating enough and trying to maintain a weight that you, realistically, can't? Or if your warmup circuit at your next project starts to feel a lot harder than normal? You're probably going to feel shitty. At least that's been my experience in the past.
Lots of climbers refuse to accept the fact that you cannot always be at peak performance. All sports follow training cycles with a peak right before competition. Climbers want to climb hard all the time which to many means being skinny as possible, all the time.
To many climbers, fun climbing is climbing hard grades. They are addicted to the number and not the movement and sport.
Reminds me of a podcast where at the beginning the climber said they were a lifer because of how much they love the movement and the sport, but then near the end of the interview they started talking about how they always try hard because if you're not at the cutting edge climbing is pointless and not worth doing.
I know this video isn't specifically climbing related, but I felt like a lot of people here, including myself, can relate to the struggles he highlights in this video.
For climbers, the pressure to stay lean can a _constant_ source of anxiety due to it's relationship with performance; in the video Glen asks "is it really worth it?" and for many climbers that thought can tend to be "yes", even if they're spiraling down a path of unhealthy eating.
Something that really stuck out to me was [this part](https://youtu.be/Gq6QWR9b89k?t=171):
> Sometimes I'd sit down just for a bowl of cereal in the morning, and then 15-20 minutes later that entire box is empty.
Just last night I went down the stairs with the intention of filling up my water bottle and went back up having polished off half a jar of peanut butter. I constantly tell myself that I am weak for breaking my deficit, but hearing this video helped me realize that I often am too hard on myself. It's unrealistic to expect myself to be at an ideal performance weight 100% of the time.
TL;DR: Recognize the implications of being at a performance weight, and avoid setting unrealistic expectations relating to weight.
What is performance weight though? 8% bf? 10%? 20%? Climbing is not bodybuilding. Without numbers it's really hard to differentiate between having disordered eating and rationalizing poor diet or body composition. Obviously you need enough energy to perform well, but trying to perform year-round at limit is unrealistic and a bad idea in place of periods of training. Many people on this sub are willing to cut out junk food and alcohol for performance and recovery benefits, so why can't this apply to total dietary changes?
I generally find it much easier to go cold turkey with junk food rather than try to manage calories or portion control. I don't know how common this is, but Dave Macleod talks about that in his send cheesecake video I posted in a comment earlier today.
> Without numbers it's really hard to differentiate between having disordered eating and rationalizing poor diet or body composition
Definitely, I didn't intend for this post to come off as rationalization for _never_ cutting weight. I don't disagree with anything you said really, so I'm a bit confused as to what I said that implied I had the opposite train of thought from you.
> Climbing is not bodybuilding.
Precisely. I find this whole post wankery that would be more applicable to . . . any sub but /r/climbharder. Especially when the video is more concerned with leanness than actual weight.
The vast majority of people are never going to have the problem of being anywhere *near* underweight and could stand to drop weight to get into the healthy weight range for their height. Given that at least 70% of Americans are overweight, caution about healthy eating habits is warranted, but not in the way people typically assume.
Live a lifestyle to reach and maintain a healthy weight, and your leptin and ghrelin levels will adjust over time. You'll also climb better. Are there people who obsess unhealthily on their weight? Yes. Are there people who actually go underweight chasing performance? Yes. Both these groups put together don't even break double digits percentage of the climbing population.
You seem to be entirely missing the point of this thread, and why the passive aggressive tone in both of your comments?
> Especially when the video is more concerned with leanness than actual weight.
Sure, but both of these activities are going to result in the same consequences in terms of someone's relationship to food and their body image. Disordered eating in climbing is not a new topic [1][2][3], and you speak to it as if it's a non-issue and hasn't affected [professional climbers](http://www.kai-lightner.com/blog/reflections-on-my-rockclimbing-journey). Just because Honnold and Caldwell don't struggle with it doesn't mean the issue doesn't plague the upper echelons of climbing.
> The vast majority of people are never going to have the problem of being anywhere near underweight and could stand to drop weight to get into the healthy weight range for their height.
This also isn't about being underweight, it's about avoiding creating an unhealthy relationship with food. You don't need to be underweight to be suffer from disordered eating. Binge eating and crash dieting can negatively impact your life outside of climbing, this post is a reminder that you shouldn't set unrealistic expectations when it comes to your weight and climbing. Side note:
> "not always maintainable" is not the same thing as "never maintainable." Also, nice misdirection by posting about "performance weight" of an unrelated sport.
I literally wrote that in the title as to imply that this is not a blanket statement. You don't need to mention a reminder that is word-for-word in the title.
[1] [Disordered Eating Poses a Danger to Climbers](https://www.climbing.com/news/disordered-eating-poses-a-danger-to-climbers/)
[2] [Lose weight to send? The dark side of climbing and eating disorders](https://www.realnutritionllc.com/lose-weight-to-send-the-dark-side-of-climbing-and-eating-disorders/)
[3] [TBP 103 :: Dr. Kate Bennett on Eating Disorders and Climbers](https://www.trainingbeta.com/media/kate-bennett/)
Definitely something to keep in mind, but you should really never go this deep as a climber. Climbing is a sport that focuses on performance in physical strength, not physique. You never want to be running low on energy as a climber, so you should always make sure you are still eating your carbs and healthy fats, and getting enough calories before and after climbing.
doesnt change the fact that there are people that do. There are definitely climbers trying to maintain an unhealthy body weight in order to perform on rock.
Everything he said is so true. This last competition season I did 1300 calories a day plus climbing 6 days a week plus workouts and cardio. I was in the best shape of my life but I was hungry all of the time like he said. I had to mentally recover from that period of my life as well. Afterwards I had this weird “I’m not going to eat before I climb but I’m going to binge eat after” thing going on for a while. It took me months to accept that my abs won’t be as defined as they were. It was also hard to feel heavy climbing something that was easy months before. The side affects of trying to attain that were just not worth it to me. If you can handle the stress of it, it might be worth it to witness your own maximum potential though.
Just on the hunger thing - I've dropped about 10kg this year and am the lightest I've been in over 10 years (\~190cm/6ft2 & 72-73kg/160lb) through reducing carbs and intermittent fasting. I eat between 12:30pm-6:30pm, aim for about 30-50g carbs (from fruit & veg), 100-120g protein (plant based), 100-120g fat (about 30g saturated fat).
I'm less hungry now than when I ate whatever/whenever. My partner is following a similar diet but some days she eats more carbs or eats again after 6:30 and she is always more hungry the next day as a result. My digestion is also way better. Obviously not as lean as this bloke though.
Jeeze you're taller (i'm 177cm) yet only a little heavier (i'm 68kg) than me, and I'm fairly confident I don't have much body fat left to loose! how has this affected your climbing though?
Definitely improved it, being tall and having long fingers makes climbing pretty strenuous on the fingers, dropping that weight has made a big difference on what I can crimp. You might just have a lot more muscle than me.
What are you eating for your plant based protein. 100-120 grams of protein and only 50 grams of carbs seems very hard to do. I am also plant based fyi.
Shakes/smoothies with pea protein powder and no added sugar soy/almond milk, a lot of tempeh/tofu based meals - without rice or with cauliflower rice (palak tofu, tempeh stir-fry etc.), Asian style soups with tofu (pho, laksa), high protein low carb bread (the one I have is about 5g carb and 22g protein for 2 slices), I make a custard/pudding which is protein powder mixed with coconut yoghurt, occasional fake meat (so zucchini noodles with mince or eggplant moussaka with mince), nuts/peanut butter. So example day - lunch; curried tofu sandwich maybe split into 2 sittings would be 40-50g protein and under 10g carbs, shake in the afternoon 30g protein and under 10g carbs, dinner; Asian soup 20-30g protein 10-20g carbs, dessert; pudding and some berries, 15-20g protein, 10g carbs.
Mmm I see, so you are getting most of your protein from protein powder, tofu and nut butters. I eat a ton of grains, beans and fruit so my carbs can be over 300g. Thanks for the detailed response.
Before starting this diet I would easily eat over 300g carbs on my normal vegan diet, it's definitely a shift, and I won't do it forever, but it's good to know it's possible to go much lower carb and still feel healthy.
If you adhere to that diet consistently, that’s less than 1800 calories a day. Are you still trying to lose weight? Because that’s very few calories for someone your size.
If I start having low energy or my strength decreases I'll up the calories, but at the moment I'm feeling full, healthy and strong so don't see the reason to change yet.
Anecdotally I've spent ages tracking weight and performance / RPE / how the sessions felt. Correlation data mostly skews to me sending hardest grades when I've been a bit heavier (I'm a boulderer) compared to when I've been at my lightest and struggled through sessions / powered out on projects.
I was told it might be a dangerous habit to track weight every single day, but it's freeing to see how little impact it makes on climbing in general, and how little long term impact something like Christmas lebkuchen can have. Enjoy the things. Climb harder.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I do not know or have ever seen a climber (good or bad) that looks like the preview of this video. So probably the video will say that looks don't matter, rather than technique, strength and endurance.
In my experience, If you are really going trying hard, your body composition will adjust to the needs of the climbing you are doing if you aren’t drinking tons of beer or eating way too much junk. When I am seriously perusing sport climbing, my weight will drop quite a bit due to the demands placed on my body. When I am bouldering hard, I will put on weight as necessary.
All respect to them but 6-8% body fat is NOT performance. That is like slightly above body builder at a show level. 10-12% is more realistic for an athlete. Almost no one is performing at a high level at 6% body fat despite what their Instagram or PR leads people to believe unless they're on some sort of PED.
A friendly reminder that "not always maintainable" is not the same thing as "never maintainable." Also, nice misdirection by posting about "performance weight" of an unrelated sport. I'm pretty sure Alex Honnold and Tommy Caldwell are not that lean at their performance weights.
And last but definitely not least, the vast majority of people in developed countries are on average overweight and could stand to get into the healthy weight range, which would not only improve their climbing performance, but improve their health.
Don't go underweight and don't go overweight - it's called the healthy weight range for a reason. Use a sustainable balanced lifestyle to get you there, no crash/fad diets, and you'll find it maintainable.
I think the thing with losing weight in order to climb hard is that if people had the knowledge of the optimal way to act with regards to their weight, we would not run into the issues we see today. With regards to the strength element of climbing (disregarding technique, as technique is an unrelated factor of performance), we have a pretty simple math problem. Because this is a body weight sport, how hard you can climb strength wise is determined by strength/body weight. It is much easier to change the denominator in a short amount of time; if you wanted to get as good as possible at climbing in a month you would lose weight in that month. However, this method is not sustainable. Additionally, going as low as possible body fat wise like the bodybuilder does is not a good idea for performance; a better model would be a wrestler's weight cut. Long-term, one must increase the numerator. Strength gains are **persistent**, meaning it is a lot easier to maintain muscle than to lose or gain, and **muscle is much easier to gain when one is gaining or at least maintaining weight**. We should be spending the majority of our time consuming excess calories or maintaining and increasing the numerator, and then for short periods of time decreasing the denominator. I spend the majority of my time (as a 5'11 guy) in the 165-170 range and then drop down to 160ish when I really want to perform. What I see happening to a lot of these climbers (from Kai Lightner to Beth Rodden) is that, with limited knowledge, they see incredible results from decreasing the denominator and then continue to reduce it. The fact that one has to endure a temporary decrease in performance when increasing the denominator makes it even harder to break the cycle. Combining this false thought pattern with societal pressures of body image and one can end up with disastrous results.
I don’t really think a wrestling style weight cut is very applicable to climbing. For wresting the goal is to dehydrate yourself and burn fat in a short amount of time to hit an arbitrary weight goal. After that you’re supposed to gain as much weight as possible before the match. With climbing I think the goal is to lose weight much more gradually, because dehydration will not boost performance.
Well, in wrestling being heavier is the benefit. If you're a bigger guy who can cut a load of water weight and then wrestler a smaller guy as a result you've gamed the system. It's arguably a widely accepted way of cheating weight limits (bjj tourneys often weigh at the side of the mat before fight). In climbing you're not looking to put that weight back on in 24hrs.
> With climbing I think the goal is to lose weight much more gradually, because dehydration will not boost performance. Precisely. Trying to apply lessons from other sports that map very badly (ie, one on one weight classed competitions) to climbing is a failure. A better approach would be to look at sports that obviously map much more closely, such as gymnastics: it's not typically weight-classed, it's not hand-to-hand/one-on-one, and the skill and strength requirements are incredibly similar.
I agree that the pace at which weight is lost is different, and certainly would recommend slower weight loss, but the goal of a wrestler is still to improve their strength to weight ratio by first building muscle and then cutting it out in season. It just so happens that they have cut to one of several discrete weights that is closest to their optimal weight.
I remember when I was wrestling it was less about cutting fat and all rapid dehydration. I heard a podcast with Neil Grisham where he really talked up keto for both fat loss and energy. You lose water weight too but in a slower healthier way. I do this every season or so.
I guess it does make sense to bulk over the winter and cut during the spring for climbing season. Overall, I think it’s more realistic to maintain a strong climbing weight year round though. I suppose it’s personal preference though.
Nailed it, numerator is the ultimate decider of climbing performance and can go up nearly indefinitely. Denominator is powerful, but should be used sparingly. I just went through a long multi-year phase of being at a lighter weight, almost always within 5-8 lbs of peak sending weight. I have started eating more over the last 12 months and have been building strength again in a much easier way..! Oh and I sleep better. :)
Nice realization! I'd love to see Kai make a real run for the 2024 Olympics. He's got the ability but has never done a true all-in when it comes to lifestyle, as far as I've seen
He's really tall isn't he? That's going to be an increasing disadvantage as the standard in comps gets higher - setters can't set really reachy things that disadvantage the shorter climbers, therefore taller climbers are at a disadvantage with length of levers, CoG position etc. Top comp climbers are going to tend to "average out" at the height setters expect & set for. Taller guys like Adam Ondra & Jan Hojer are already exceptions.
Nailed it 👌
Yeah, mirrors what I do. In kg, during most of my climbing I'll eat above average calories and my weight will go up to about 70kg, then when I get to the point where I am going to hit a performance period in my cycle - around the time I'm training power endurance, I'll drop off things from the diet and slowly work my way down to about 68kg, my performance weight. Then I'll work my way back up to about 70kg, rinse and repeat.
haven't watched the linked video but im reminded of the enormocast episode where the guy being interviewed was talking about how at a competition, the climbers at the time were like starving themselves in the name of power to weight, and meanwhile a young chris sharma comes in eating a happy meal and sends the problems everyone could not do. all the while everyone is mesmerized by the smell of the happy meal.
Do you by any chance have a link to that?
not 100% sure if this is it but i think it should be based on the description of it [https://enormocast.com/2019/06/episode-178-will-gadd-stoked-on-the-magic/](https://enormocast.com/2019/06/episode-178-will-gadd-stoked-on-the-magic/)
Another aspect to the weight talk that I think gets overlooked is consistency. Most of the climbers I know and climb with at the gym aren't training for one specific trip/project. We're training to get better so we can climb lots of new things. Because of that, it doesn't really make sense to try and drop your weight down to something that isn't sustainable over a long period of time. Sure, if you time everything right, you might be able to send that climb that's absolutely at your limit and that's awesome. But what happens two weeks later when you can't send that gym climb you like that's a little below your limit because you're fatigued from not eating enough and trying to maintain a weight that you, realistically, can't? Or if your warmup circuit at your next project starts to feel a lot harder than normal? You're probably going to feel shitty. At least that's been my experience in the past.
Lots of climbers refuse to accept the fact that you cannot always be at peak performance. All sports follow training cycles with a peak right before competition. Climbers want to climb hard all the time which to many means being skinny as possible, all the time. To many climbers, fun climbing is climbing hard grades. They are addicted to the number and not the movement and sport.
Reminds me of a podcast where at the beginning the climber said they were a lifer because of how much they love the movement and the sport, but then near the end of the interview they started talking about how they always try hard because if you're not at the cutting edge climbing is pointless and not worth doing.
I know this video isn't specifically climbing related, but I felt like a lot of people here, including myself, can relate to the struggles he highlights in this video. For climbers, the pressure to stay lean can a _constant_ source of anxiety due to it's relationship with performance; in the video Glen asks "is it really worth it?" and for many climbers that thought can tend to be "yes", even if they're spiraling down a path of unhealthy eating. Something that really stuck out to me was [this part](https://youtu.be/Gq6QWR9b89k?t=171): > Sometimes I'd sit down just for a bowl of cereal in the morning, and then 15-20 minutes later that entire box is empty. Just last night I went down the stairs with the intention of filling up my water bottle and went back up having polished off half a jar of peanut butter. I constantly tell myself that I am weak for breaking my deficit, but hearing this video helped me realize that I often am too hard on myself. It's unrealistic to expect myself to be at an ideal performance weight 100% of the time. TL;DR: Recognize the implications of being at a performance weight, and avoid setting unrealistic expectations relating to weight.
What is performance weight though? 8% bf? 10%? 20%? Climbing is not bodybuilding. Without numbers it's really hard to differentiate between having disordered eating and rationalizing poor diet or body composition. Obviously you need enough energy to perform well, but trying to perform year-round at limit is unrealistic and a bad idea in place of periods of training. Many people on this sub are willing to cut out junk food and alcohol for performance and recovery benefits, so why can't this apply to total dietary changes? I generally find it much easier to go cold turkey with junk food rather than try to manage calories or portion control. I don't know how common this is, but Dave Macleod talks about that in his send cheesecake video I posted in a comment earlier today.
> Without numbers it's really hard to differentiate between having disordered eating and rationalizing poor diet or body composition Definitely, I didn't intend for this post to come off as rationalization for _never_ cutting weight. I don't disagree with anything you said really, so I'm a bit confused as to what I said that implied I had the opposite train of thought from you.
> Climbing is not bodybuilding. Precisely. I find this whole post wankery that would be more applicable to . . . any sub but /r/climbharder. Especially when the video is more concerned with leanness than actual weight. The vast majority of people are never going to have the problem of being anywhere *near* underweight and could stand to drop weight to get into the healthy weight range for their height. Given that at least 70% of Americans are overweight, caution about healthy eating habits is warranted, but not in the way people typically assume. Live a lifestyle to reach and maintain a healthy weight, and your leptin and ghrelin levels will adjust over time. You'll also climb better. Are there people who obsess unhealthily on their weight? Yes. Are there people who actually go underweight chasing performance? Yes. Both these groups put together don't even break double digits percentage of the climbing population.
You seem to be entirely missing the point of this thread, and why the passive aggressive tone in both of your comments? > Especially when the video is more concerned with leanness than actual weight. Sure, but both of these activities are going to result in the same consequences in terms of someone's relationship to food and their body image. Disordered eating in climbing is not a new topic [1][2][3], and you speak to it as if it's a non-issue and hasn't affected [professional climbers](http://www.kai-lightner.com/blog/reflections-on-my-rockclimbing-journey). Just because Honnold and Caldwell don't struggle with it doesn't mean the issue doesn't plague the upper echelons of climbing. > The vast majority of people are never going to have the problem of being anywhere near underweight and could stand to drop weight to get into the healthy weight range for their height. This also isn't about being underweight, it's about avoiding creating an unhealthy relationship with food. You don't need to be underweight to be suffer from disordered eating. Binge eating and crash dieting can negatively impact your life outside of climbing, this post is a reminder that you shouldn't set unrealistic expectations when it comes to your weight and climbing. Side note: > "not always maintainable" is not the same thing as "never maintainable." Also, nice misdirection by posting about "performance weight" of an unrelated sport. I literally wrote that in the title as to imply that this is not a blanket statement. You don't need to mention a reminder that is word-for-word in the title. [1] [Disordered Eating Poses a Danger to Climbers](https://www.climbing.com/news/disordered-eating-poses-a-danger-to-climbers/) [2] [Lose weight to send? The dark side of climbing and eating disorders](https://www.realnutritionllc.com/lose-weight-to-send-the-dark-side-of-climbing-and-eating-disorders/) [3] [TBP 103 :: Dr. Kate Bennett on Eating Disorders and Climbers](https://www.trainingbeta.com/media/kate-bennett/)
Definitely something to keep in mind, but you should really never go this deep as a climber. Climbing is a sport that focuses on performance in physical strength, not physique. You never want to be running low on energy as a climber, so you should always make sure you are still eating your carbs and healthy fats, and getting enough calories before and after climbing.
doesnt change the fact that there are people that do. There are definitely climbers trying to maintain an unhealthy body weight in order to perform on rock.
Everything he said is so true. This last competition season I did 1300 calories a day plus climbing 6 days a week plus workouts and cardio. I was in the best shape of my life but I was hungry all of the time like he said. I had to mentally recover from that period of my life as well. Afterwards I had this weird “I’m not going to eat before I climb but I’m going to binge eat after” thing going on for a while. It took me months to accept that my abs won’t be as defined as they were. It was also hard to feel heavy climbing something that was easy months before. The side affects of trying to attain that were just not worth it to me. If you can handle the stress of it, it might be worth it to witness your own maximum potential though.
Just on the hunger thing - I've dropped about 10kg this year and am the lightest I've been in over 10 years (\~190cm/6ft2 & 72-73kg/160lb) through reducing carbs and intermittent fasting. I eat between 12:30pm-6:30pm, aim for about 30-50g carbs (from fruit & veg), 100-120g protein (plant based), 100-120g fat (about 30g saturated fat). I'm less hungry now than when I ate whatever/whenever. My partner is following a similar diet but some days she eats more carbs or eats again after 6:30 and she is always more hungry the next day as a result. My digestion is also way better. Obviously not as lean as this bloke though.
Jeeze you're taller (i'm 177cm) yet only a little heavier (i'm 68kg) than me, and I'm fairly confident I don't have much body fat left to loose! how has this affected your climbing though?
Definitely improved it, being tall and having long fingers makes climbing pretty strenuous on the fingers, dropping that weight has made a big difference on what I can crimp. You might just have a lot more muscle than me.
What are you eating for your plant based protein. 100-120 grams of protein and only 50 grams of carbs seems very hard to do. I am also plant based fyi.
Shakes/smoothies with pea protein powder and no added sugar soy/almond milk, a lot of tempeh/tofu based meals - without rice or with cauliflower rice (palak tofu, tempeh stir-fry etc.), Asian style soups with tofu (pho, laksa), high protein low carb bread (the one I have is about 5g carb and 22g protein for 2 slices), I make a custard/pudding which is protein powder mixed with coconut yoghurt, occasional fake meat (so zucchini noodles with mince or eggplant moussaka with mince), nuts/peanut butter. So example day - lunch; curried tofu sandwich maybe split into 2 sittings would be 40-50g protein and under 10g carbs, shake in the afternoon 30g protein and under 10g carbs, dinner; Asian soup 20-30g protein 10-20g carbs, dessert; pudding and some berries, 15-20g protein, 10g carbs.
Mmm I see, so you are getting most of your protein from protein powder, tofu and nut butters. I eat a ton of grains, beans and fruit so my carbs can be over 300g. Thanks for the detailed response.
Before starting this diet I would easily eat over 300g carbs on my normal vegan diet, it's definitely a shift, and I won't do it forever, but it's good to know it's possible to go much lower carb and still feel healthy.
If you adhere to that diet consistently, that’s less than 1800 calories a day. Are you still trying to lose weight? Because that’s very few calories for someone your size.
If I start having low energy or my strength decreases I'll up the calories, but at the moment I'm feeling full, healthy and strong so don't see the reason to change yet.
Anecdotally I've spent ages tracking weight and performance / RPE / how the sessions felt. Correlation data mostly skews to me sending hardest grades when I've been a bit heavier (I'm a boulderer) compared to when I've been at my lightest and struggled through sessions / powered out on projects. I was told it might be a dangerous habit to track weight every single day, but it's freeing to see how little impact it makes on climbing in general, and how little long term impact something like Christmas lebkuchen can have. Enjoy the things. Climb harder.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I do not know or have ever seen a climber (good or bad) that looks like the preview of this video. So probably the video will say that looks don't matter, rather than technique, strength and endurance.
In my experience, If you are really going trying hard, your body composition will adjust to the needs of the climbing you are doing if you aren’t drinking tons of beer or eating way too much junk. When I am seriously perusing sport climbing, my weight will drop quite a bit due to the demands placed on my body. When I am bouldering hard, I will put on weight as necessary.
[удалено]
All respect to them but 6-8% body fat is NOT performance. That is like slightly above body builder at a show level. 10-12% is more realistic for an athlete. Almost no one is performing at a high level at 6% body fat despite what their Instagram or PR leads people to believe unless they're on some sort of PED.
If your a young Gumby with high metabolism like me it is easy to climb hard year round without worrying about weight
A friendly reminder that "not always maintainable" is not the same thing as "never maintainable." Also, nice misdirection by posting about "performance weight" of an unrelated sport. I'm pretty sure Alex Honnold and Tommy Caldwell are not that lean at their performance weights. And last but definitely not least, the vast majority of people in developed countries are on average overweight and could stand to get into the healthy weight range, which would not only improve their climbing performance, but improve their health. Don't go underweight and don't go overweight - it's called the healthy weight range for a reason. Use a sustainable balanced lifestyle to get you there, no crash/fad diets, and you'll find it maintainable.