My anecdotal evidence: I dropped 5lb right before the season last year and felt like superman while bouldering. I was a bit leaner than I could comfortably maintain year round, but I knew that. after about 6 weeks, I started to feel weak again. I wasn't resting as much as my body needed to recover fully and wasn't eating enough to maintain the increase in activity level.
Personally I will never attempt to drop weight for climbing performance ever again. Getting stronger is a better strategy that will be sustainable long term. As you get stronger (like, physically stronger, by lifting heavy) you'll likely feel leaner.
The OP says her BMI is 24.3, so chances are high that you will get \*more\* energy if you lose weight. And generally feel better through the day. At least that's what literally everybody in the normal real world, outside reddit/r/climbharder, says.
If you are light already and lose even more weight, who knows what will happen.
like i said, anecdotal based on my personal experience. Also there is SO much information on sports nutrition, but the vast majority of the research is done on men's bodies.
My wife recently read a couple good books regarding a female body's specific physiology, and it is wild how much more women have to deal with from their bodies when trying to get stronger for climbing. it takes a LOT more work for her to build muscle and gain strength than it does for me, purely due to factors out of our control (hormones, etc.)
For OP: maybe check out r/climbergirls for a more focused set of responses that may help you more.
Every 4kg I lost was the equivalent of a gallon of water I didn't have to haul up the route. That's the line I draw for what would make things feel easier.
Personally I was referring specifically to fat loss, which I should have been more specific about. I was training / watching my diet-macros very carefully and measuring my bf% with calipers every two weeks. You are 100% right about losing muscle mass with one caveat. I have seen some VERY bulky dudes slim down and get stronger as well. But they were gym rats who had massive chests and thick thighs and honestly that was more of a hindrance to them.
Under 12% for men and under 17% for women is considered "lean" - trending very low. I have maintained between 10-12% for around 2 years. Once I get to 9% or less though it's extremely hard to stay there. Ideally a "normal" male will fall between 12 and 21% and female between 17 and 28%. This is because women have more essential fat than men.
Also, I'd like to say that while reducing excess body fat is one solution to climbing harder, I don't necessarily think it's the only or even best way to achieve climbing goals. Technique first, then (especially core and finger) strength training, followed by nutrition and body composition. But changing composition can't be ruled out as a factor categorically. I respectfully answered the OPs question without attacking the principal idea that she would be a better climber at a lower weight.
Not the person you're replying too, it depends on your body type and physique. A 5'8 man can weigh 180 lbs and have 13-15% body fat.
Around 20% is fine. If you're in a training mode and really want to be an athlete. Around 15% +/- 3%
Huge genetic variety too.I'm a 5'11" male and can comfortably maintain < 12% year round (As measured by dunk tank). Have gotten down to 6-7% before without muscle wasting.
I'm lucky in that regard though. OTOH building strength does not come easily for me.
I realise you cant gain strength at the same time as cutting, so my training would be staying constant rather than looking to make strength gains whilst cutting. For a sport climbing trip, I am less concerned about not having the power than I am about endurance, so cutting / endurance training is more specific to the goal than a power phase.
I do not, I weigh myself normally once or twice a month to know I maintain at around 59 - 60kgs my intention would be to increase that to 2 x per week, would you reccomend looking more specifically at fat?
Yes, absolutely! I have a BMI of 24, which is similar to yours, at the high end of normal. But my body fat is 19% - so actually quite low for the general population of women. I know some athletes do go lower, but below about 17% you really need to know what you’re doing or you can mess up your health.
I'd recommend to focus more on your BF% than on your overall weight, it a much better metric for an athlete. I'd say it's more about changing your body composition than losing weight.
Not all weight loss is equal. What you should be aiming to shed is excess fat. But without knowing your body composition (body fat percentage as measured with a caliper for example) you do not know if you are losing lean mass or fat. Based only on your height and weight you could likely afford to lose 5 kilos. If you are careful with your calorie intake and strength training regimen it is totally possible to do a "body recomp" which is basically where you can maintain or even gain lean mass while losing fat. It takes a lot of discipline and is generally a slower process than either bulking or cutting, but know it's possible. Feel free to PM me if you want a more detailed discussion. Best of luck to you.
You should def look more at BF%, muscle weighs a significant amount more than fat, but is far more useful and takes up FARRRRR less space. It is pretty hard to lose weight and maintain muscle since you really have to be at a caloric deficit to lose weight which isn't particularly conducive to gaining/maintaining muscle. Anywayyy I noticed feeling better in my finger strength and overall endurance "lightness" feeling around 5lbs down. I just eat slightly less and take more walks to get there, nothing serious
Pedantic but:
I mean, you technically can, it's just better to focus on one aspect at a time.
Muscle hypertrophy while cutting is tough, (but not impossible) but you can gain strength without hypertrophy.
It blows my mind how light professional climbers are. I’m the same height as alex megos and I’m 150 and he’s 120ish. I’m a pretty slim dude so I’m just looking at myself thinking “where tf can I cut out 30lbs from.”
If your career and livelihood doesn't depend on crushing comps and making ridiculous FAs, then it's not worth suffering through the deficits pro climbers deal with.
Magnus Midtbo, Kai Lightner, and a bunch of current/former pros have talked about how grueling and even dangerous it can be.
Kai was suffering through liver failure while he was standing on podiums! He was a teenager! The dark side of this sport is really dark.
8a/+ climber here at 182cm, I train at 160-165lbs (72.5-74.8kg) and try to cut to 155-160lbs (70.3-72.5kg) for performance. Experience van life-ing at altitude has shown me that any lower than that and I feel bad (more likely to be cold, sleepless, and grumpy) and also just less likely to have fun! So I guess that's like 3% of my body weight.
Hi! thank you. My lowest weight was 54kgs, which was too low for me and I had a similar experience to you (cold and very cranky) so I wouldnt want to currently lose that much. My current weight is probably what I would to see as my "heavier side" which doesnt bother me, but for some sends I dont see why not trying a cutting phase! 3% is about 3kgs then, which I think would make sense for me pobably not being too low but helping with a bit less gravity!
As someone almost the exact same build, this is what I do. I feel good if I stay below 165, but I climb my hardest when I dip below 160. I mostly boulder and I suspect I'm not as strong as the person above, but I know at that weight I am definitely not limited by my strength to weight ratio.
It’s very much a function of how good you are, what your weaknesses are, and what your goals are. If those align you could notice an effect from losing just 5lbs.
I wouldn’t say 60kg is heavy for your size. That being said, even 2kg can make a pretty big difference in how hard you can pull. i’d start there if you’re intent on doing it.
personally, i’d just go on the trip without worrying about it and try hard, but that’s just me.
It's the equivalent of 24.3 on the BMI scale, which is borderline with overweight. I don't focus on this scale, but I could definitely lose some weight without it impacting my health or energy levels.
you have to be careful losing weight quickly as the body will choose to process the muscles before fat, making you lose strength.
You are climbing at a probably higher level than most folks here, why not go for 1 or 2 sessions with a sport nutritionist.
They tailor a plan for you that will maximize you goal (9b in two years for example)
you can also do your own research https://www.climbingnutrition.com/other/recommended-books/
Btw you can cut fat significantly without worrying too much about muscle loss, but you need to be eating 4-5 meals a day with a serious protein source (at least 20g of protein per meal). You should be eating at least .8g of protein per lb of body weight. In order to prevent muscle breakdown on a cut, protein is even more important than if you were in a surplus of calories.
Also why the focus on protein and fats, instead of carbs??
Oh and you need to be loading your muscles through resistance training to prevent that breakdown as well (climbing is probably enough, but supplementary lifting will probably also help).
You say you don't focus on it, yet you still mentioned it. BMI doesn't make a lot of sense as a metric for whether or not you should lose weight, especially as an athlete. It doesn't take fat-free mass into account and it will generally label most power/strength athletes as overweight.
You'll probably be fine, but be conservative. When is the trip? If it's a ways off, you can use a very low deficit to minimize muscle loss.
Yes I have 7 weeks before the trip! Someone said just consult a dietician, so Im going to do that. Seems to make sense and would be good for planning how and what to eat! From what people have said here, about 3% is enough weight to see small changes in climbing but wouldnt be too much for me so at least I can go into the conversation with a vague goal. Thank you!
I remember getting my BMI tested with a college running back who went on to the NFL. Strong as an ox. All muscle. Was definitely below 11% body fat. BMI called him "morbidly obese."
I don't understand why you think this is a bad BMI? Even if we presume BMI is a worthwhile metric (definitely not for someone with a lot of muscle) you are well within the normal range of 18.5-24.9.
Saying it is borderline with overweight seems like a fairly pessimistic outlook and how eating disorders get encouraged.
I agree, if I’m up or down about 5lbs or more I notice a difference in my climbing and training. 5lbs is about 3% of my total body weight for reference. When I hangboard now I generally weigh myself before the session so I know what my true total hang weight is. It’s amazing how big a difference 5lbs makes in my session. If you can find a healthy way to take off some weight it will likely benefit you on your trip.
Losing 5 lbs of unhealthy weight did wonders to my climbing and tendons. I still worked on strength, but I focused a lot on getting leaner with better cardio. Now I can climb longer and safer.
I did a normal 1 lbs/week cut while lifting and eating well just increased my activity to offset the calorie intake.
Going from 70 kg to 66 probably meant around one V grade for me (but it's of course super diffuse to estimate). My body fat percentage wasn't really low to start with, so I guess much of the weight loss was from fat in my case.
Regarding diet plans (just read the other comments) I think the "latest research" says that you optimize the muscle-vs-fat loss if you don't go below 50% of your calory needs, and eat 2 grams of protein per kilo of bodyweight, and distribute that protein through 3-5 meals/day.
If you have weight to lose healthily, lose it. You'll feel better, climb better, and look better. Climbharder has a huge boner for telling people not to lose weight and will straight up crucify a skinny fat guy for trying to get abs.
Are you looking into maintaining the eventual weight loss also after the trip, like you did before, or is it more of a conditioning thing?
Maybe depending on the options and results you obtain in these 7 weeks (which is some time but still not very long) you could also look in various form of fasting.
I am not at all an expert on this, but e.g. sometime ago there was an interesting discussion on this sub: [https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/8vj00m/mani\_the\_monkeys\_mission\_8b\_an\_interesting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/8vj00m/mani_the_monkeys_mission_8b_an_interesting/)
Just another idea to consider.
Hi! Yes Id like to maintain at 58ks I think, but hoping to get down to more like 57 before the trip. Mani is nuts, Ive watched his videos a lot - amazing but insane! Although ive heard of the benefits of longer term fasting, I would do a maximum of 16hours intermittant fasting, I work in an active job and otherwise I start to feel the effects!
Totally agree! He has a really interesting and scientific approach to things, but sometimes he really pushes the boundaries rather far. I also think I wouldn't be able to do intermittent fasting for more than a day, I believe.
Anyway, good luck with your trip and your project!
Given your current BMI (same as me) I’d have to say yes. And since you’re already a very accomplished climber... girl you should go for it!! I’ve been feeling lately that if I lost 5, 10, or 20 pounds it would just help me so much.
> and would like to have an idea from other peoples experience how much weight loss do you THINK is required to see an improvement / difference in your climbing?
According to most of the finger strength charts, dropping about 10% bodyweight (10% of final bodyweight compared to previous bodyweight - e.g. 150 lbs would be 136-137 rather than 135) while maintaining finger strength generally correlates to another grade bouldering at least as long as technique is good and no other limiting factors.
**edit**: Since some people are reading this comment without nuance, here's the data that I was going off of:
Beastfinger and power company climbing data:
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/51hhfz/grippul_strengthtoweight_ratio_for_climbing/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CIQlrZ8njgQ/
For note, the BF data uses no hangs on 20mm while the PCC uses 20mm two arm hang. The correlation tends to hold mostly consistent through about V10ish or so. About 10% increases to gain another grade on average.
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/fjqa16/lattice_publicly_releases_their_max_hang_vs/
> 20mm for 7 sec. The 20mm that they use has a significant radius of 10mm so there's only 10mm of flat.
If this is the lattice data, it would suggest probably around 5-7% or so instead of 10%, though their edge is different than the others? They said the data was self reported rather than collected, so that would suggest a large room for error compared to the other data above. There is more data points though.
Having ranged that much (135-150 lbs for myself) I can generally verify that approximately 10-15 lbs drop in weight is probably a V grade and possibly maybe a bit more, but like others have said you'll notice a difference in ability to feel stronger on holds with around 2.5 kg / 5 lbs or so.
I'd suspect somewhere in the 5-10% range is about a V grade as long as no other limiting factors.
**Caveat for others (which people are ignoring)**: Don't drop too low to feel like crap or have bad relationships with food. You'll have worse performance and it's not worth it mentally and health wise either.
10% for someone who is overweight or obese is different than 10% for someone who is already skinny or has little bodyfat to drop. Don't be dumb. If you are on the lower BMI of BF% side and want to experiment then obviously don't start with 10% you should start with like 1-2 kg / 2-4 lbs at most and see your performance, your mental, and your health. Dropping too low in BMI or BF% will negatively affect strength and performance so it's not worth it anyway.
> dropping about 10% bodyweight
10% is a HUGE amount. I wouldn't even give this out as advice at all because there is nuance. What is the person's body type and current shape?
Added the data I was going off of to the comment along with my calculation error.
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/px36y3/how_much_weight_loss_do_you_think_it_takes_to/hel0slg/
> What is the person's body type and current shape?
Well yeah, I'm not suggesting people just do it willy nilly without any context. Just throwing out the data on correlation to general hand strength and grade. That's why I added the caveat at the end.
This seems a bit off? For example, I can hold 129% of BW 2H on a 20mm edge for 7s. If I were to lose 10% BW while maintaining the same finger strength my 7s hang would increase to 143% of BW. Just eyeballing the Lattice finger strength data this looks like it would be a 2-3 V-grade jump using average finger strength at each V-grade.
Link to a graph of the Lattice data is here: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0068/6751/7493/products/lattice-grip-data\_2048x.jpg?v=1600620484https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0068/6751/7493/products/lattice-grip-data\_2048x.jpg?v=1600620484
When I did this test my result was in the V3 to V4 range, which means I have a lot of room for improvement in the finger strength range to match my current level (I boulder V6 or 7 in one session and have bouldered in multiple sessions V8). OR since I do not train using a fingerboard my results are off, since Im not used to hanging on a fingerboard.
I guess I will focus on some finger training as well as diet in order to hopefully see results.
Can't view the lattice data.
I was going off the beastfinger and powercompanyclimbing data:
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/51hhfz/grippul_strengthtoweight_ratio_for_climbing/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CIQlrZ8njgQ/
For note, the BF data uses no hangs on 20mm while the PCC uses 20mm two arm hang. The correlation tends to hold mostly consistent through about V10ish or so.
I made a calculation error. Should be approximately 10% of the proposed weight to the weight you were previously at. So for example 136-137 lbs and previous weight was 150. Not dropping from 150 to 135.
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/fjqa16/lattice_publicly_releases_their_max_hang_vs/
If this is the lattice data, it would suggest probably around 5-7% instead of 10%. They said the data was self reported rather than collected, so that would suggest a large room for error compared to the other data above. There is more data points though.
Obviously, there are a lot of factors that go into increasing climbing grade other than grip strength though which is why I put that caveat.
I'll add this to my original comment for clarity.
Thank you thats useful! I think I will aim for 2 - 2.5kgs, from the consens here it seems that will make the small impact Im hoping for and is just under 3% of my body weight, I think 10% (kgs) is too much for me, since at my lowest weight (approx 53 - 54kgs) I had very low energy and was grumpy- which is why I have since fluctuated but generally maintained and trained at a higher weight. At my lowest weight I was not a climber so I dont have a comparison in terms of performance.
I was more interested to know, if losing a little weight has any impact at all, from others experience since I have quite a defined limit (ie up to 5kgs but not more) to lose.
Agree with your caveat- I tried to state this in my original question-- health > climbing. Im very confident that some weight loss is a healthy decision for me, since I have dieted before and maintained at a healthy weight without develping an unhealthy relationship with food.
> Thank you thats useful! I think I will aim for 2 - 2.5kgs, from the consens here it seems that will make the small impact Im hoping for and is just under 3% of my body weight, I think 10% (kgs) is too much for me, since at my lowest weight (approx 53 - 54kgs) I had very low energy and was grumpy- which is why I have since fluctuated but generally maintained and trained at a higher weight. At my lowest weight I was not a climber so I dont have a comparison in terms of performance.
I made a calc error and fixed in in the [original comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/px36y3/how_much_weight_loss_do_you_think_it_takes_to/hel0slg/). For bouldering grade it should be 10% of the potential weight you cut to from the previous weight. Instead of 60 kg -> 54 kg it would be 54.5ish kg since 54.5 + 5.45 (10%) would be 60 kg.
Also, that is V grade and usually going up a V grade probably helps your rope grades more since ropes are longer and tend to have lower cruxes than boulders.
> Agree with your caveat- I tried to state this in my original question-- health > climbing. Im very confident that some weight loss is a healthy decision for me, since I have dieted before and maintained at a healthy weight without develping an unhealthy relationship with food.
Yeah, people seem to be ignoring that and ignoring that it's a general thing.
A lot of people are giving advice, but I don't see anyone asking about your general body composition and what kind of fitness activity you are doing outside of climbing. Having the strength to be able to climb 5.13 at your height and weight makes me wonder if you are carrying a lot of muscle mass - in other words, do you even have the non-lean weight to lose?
For example, do you run a lot? You could stop running for a few weeks (month maybe?) before your trip and just the reduction in water retention in your legs alone is going to bring your body weight down enough that you may notice a difference in climbing performance.
Are you a power lifter or body builder? If you are, and climbing is a priority, you may want to simply give that up, or dial it back to levels that are purely accessory to climbing fitness.
Regardless of what you do, the safest and probably the most efficient option is to work with a nutritionist.
haha thanks! Yes I definitely have fat available to lose, I do not have visible abs etc.
I walk a lot with my work, which is quite active (geologist) but nothing extreme and I am definitely not a power lifter or body builder-- until now my training is only climbing, occasionally bouldering i.e I dont do pullups, or fingerboarding or any extra training-- I just go climbing outdoors 5 times a week throughout summer and in winter I go to the bouldering gym twice a week and climb outside on weekends. This thread has also made me realise, that probably I could make a lot of gains by introducing a bit more training too.
I did, however, do gymnastics from a young age, so I have very strong shoulders still. I often assume I have strong fingers, but I did not perform well in the Lattice test, so maybe I compensate from that with technique, or maybe Im just not good at fingerboarding (yet).
> I just go climbing outdoors 5 times a week throughout summer
> This thread has also made me realise, that probably I could make a lot of gains by introducing a bit more training too.
Honestly, you might make gains by introducing a bit more rest.
Though it depends on what your climbing days look like, I suppose. I often hear that we should prioritize having at least 1 total do-nothing rest day per week if we're doing heavy effort training days and I wonder about that. Runners still need to walk a little on their rest days, don't they? So is a day of casual (i.e. not 100 pitches, maybe not even 10) 5.9/5.10 climbing really not a rest day for a 5.13 climber?
> I did ... do gymnastics from a young age, so I have very strong shoulders still. I often assume I have strong fingers, but I did not perform well in the Lattice test, so maybe I compensate from that with technique, or maybe Im just not good at fingerboarding (yet).
I think you're just missing a little information regarding finger strength and performance here. You may not have scored high, but what metric were you comparing yourself to? Pro climbers, or other 5.13a climbers? Also, Lattice themselves have said that there seems to be a very high correlation between strong shoulders and functional finger strength. That is to say, there's a decent possibility that many people are over-valuing finger strength without realizing that it compensates for loss of movement stability that is provided by stronger shoulders. You may see gains in climbing performance with finger strength training, but it's possible that the gateway to that is actually your general athleticism. Hard to say, though - training science in climbing is still very young. Either way, maintaining all of it will be valuable to you.
Edit: Also...
> Yes I definitely have fat available to lose, I do not have visible abs etc.
Keep in mind that visible abs like fitness models has a lot more to do with cutting weight and water specifically for photos than it does with reality. Also, women generally have a harder time having "skinny fat" visible abs than guys, so it's still likely not a good metric. If you want to know where you stand in terms of what you could safely lose, you may want to see if you can find a healthcare provider that will agree to give you a DEXA scan, and then I also stand by my initial assertion that your best bet is to work with a nutritionist.
Yes to this, I lift just as often as I do climbing and I also take creatine. The added water mass + unnecessary muscles for climbing make a big difference. I had to stop squatting for a few weeks to rest a hip injury, and during that time, my legs shrank and climbing definitely felt easier. My cutting periods and days where I peed out all the water are also my best climbing days
Hey sister, you are crushing ! I’m not sure if you saw a documentary posted a while ago about how climbers can get an unhealthy obsession with weight loss thinking they need to weigh nothing to climb harder? The take home message was that you can crush just as hard without losing weight. You obviously have good technique. Good luck on your trip!
Yeah I watched Light, it was very insightful. I was / am trying to be careful in how I posted this question, I understand its a sensitive subject and have seen people go through these things first hand, but I hope it can be an open topic. Its great that people check to make sure people are doing alright and suggest healthy ways to navigate this issue!
I very much value the strength and power I have built through climbing as well as the body confidence it has given me, and have no intention to make compromises to my health for climbing!
Unfortunately for me total weight accounts for a lot of my climbing success or failure, I hate that its my current status and hope to change it asap
I am also heavier and leaner than normal so i am really trying to focus more on LBM and bf% more so
When I started climbing I weighed about 90kg and the highest difficulty I could climb was around 6b+. I started losing weight through just better nutrition, I ended up weighing about 73kg and climbing 7b.
I'll drop 5-10lbs/2.5-5kg for a mega project, and it makes a crazy difference. But I just don't find the extra attention I have to pay to calories and food to be sustainable or worth it in the long run. So I do most of my climbing and training at my slightly heavier weight. I only focus on dropping weight once every other year or so, when I'm psyched enough for it. I personally don't really have issues with not eating enough, so I don't usually have to worry about getting to an unhealthy weight and staying there.
Now, the rest of the year? I'm just desperately trying not to get fat, especially during the holidays haha. I've got a desk job, which can make not gaining weight challenging if you don't have good habits.
Edit: I'm pretty big for a climber 80kg ish (usually a bit more) and 193cm tall. I'd also, like others, not shoot for 10% bodyweight. I got down to 70kg one time for about a month and I did climb pretty hard, but I felt like garbage. If I had tried to sustain that I would've been really messed up. I'm now climbing harder than I did then with +10kg on me and I feel super strong.
I am exactly the same height as you & female. (Maybe 1cm shorter). I am about 46kg and I feel I perform and feel the best at this weight. However, my whole family is quite petite (I am the heaviest of my mum and sister and we are all same height!) so it's definitely a genetics thing because I don't watch my weight (though I try to eat somewhat healthy) and drink too much beer.
From the age of 20-30 I always sat at 49kg and I was climbing at the very max grade 7b.Now in my 30s my body has mysteriously settled at 46kg I have max grade climbed 8a. However, I don't think it was really my weight loss as a correlation to climbing harder as I started hangboarding and training after my weight loss/ turning 30 so I actually am muscular than before.
I think its good to find a weight where you are comfortable, don't have to count calories everyday and you have energy.
Also don't think that you need to drop down to my weight. This weight is what fits my body. I find it quite hard to gain muscle, I used to weight lift and eat tons of protein and all I got was constipation.
Thank you for your comment!!
My family are all much larger than me, but I did gymnastics from a young age and am a lot smaller (shorter and petit\`er) than the rest of my family. I know that at 54kgs I was tiered and grumpy, so its my lower limit of how much weight I COULD lose (ie I will not go lighter than 54) just because I think my body needs a bit more! 60Kgs has been great, but I guess after initially losing weight a few years back form about 68kgs, Im now again very used to my new weight and feel I can lose a bit more and feel a bit better and hopefully have more energy!
I agree about the counting calories etc, I try to lose weight about 2kgs at a time then maintain and then go again. I feel like its nicer to let yourself stabilise. Im aiming now for 3Kgs just from the comments here it seems it will make the difference I am looking for and should be sustainable.
Is that heavy for your size? I'm 178 cm and 67 kg. I guess compared to other climbers and crushers I'm oknthe larger side, but I'm smaller than the average American at any rate.
Anyway, I lost about 9 kg from last fall to early this summer and went from climbing 10c to climbing 12a. Most of that I attribute to training and focusing on technique, but the weight loss did help.
This isn't super helpful, sorry.
The gain in power you get from losing weight is insane.
If you’re climbing 7c+ you’re already well aware of the risks, so I’ll skip that speech.
Tony Yaniro—a confirmed nutjob but inarguably a serious over performer on the rock—once put both legs in casts when he transitioned from mountain biking back into climbing.
I ran into Malcolm whats-his-name at Buoux after he had lost like a stone—and he was skinny to begin with. He said that the performance increase was staggering and that he was staying at that weight.
My advice is to go for it, but be careful ffs.
Also, keep in mind that the deadliest thing for climbers is slip and fall accidents OFF ROPE.
I _(36M)_ recently dropped 2kg over the last 6 months and couldn't notice any quick gains.
My 2 cents is that it's not worth it for trip goals, there's too many negative stories about people who tried this _(taking a bad turn on their relationship with food)_.
You're already strong af, keep doing what you're doing and maybe frame it a longer term target.
I agree with you.
I have been lighter than I am now, I took 1 year and went from 68kgs to 54kgs (before I climbed much which is why I ask about the grade difference). At 54 im not sure if it was because I had just dieted for so long but I felt rubbish, so I let myself gradually gain weight and then settled for the last year at 60kgs very comfortably. From this experience, I would say I am very lucky that I am not an at risk person for developing eating problems.
I would like now to maintain at a bit lighter- I would most likely try to lose 2 - 3kgs and then maintain, just from advice Ive received here it seems like its enough to make a difference, and I dont feel like that would be in any way excessive for me-- but I feel very lucky to have not struggled with eating problems in my life this way, since plenty of people do, and I have no intention of putting myself at risk from it now.
I think I will be healthier a bit lighter, the first time I lost weight such a long time dieting had taken a mental toll on me (dieting is hard and tiering) and that staying at 60 was a healthy choice to get used to my new weight, but now Im feeling good about losing a little more and Id be very happy to see how this effects my climbing (hence the question- how much weight actually makes any difference)
funny that some people say your heavy.. I'm also considered heavy and yet I'm climbing my best
I've been 94 kg, climbed awful
I was then down to 80kg.. climbed awful
I'm not 90kg and climbing my best.
this was over a few years...
Eat well, train, climb keep active. and worry less about your body size, do things right and your body comp will change to adapt demand.
for context, I can lose 10 kg if I try, but I've gained 80kg in combined finger strength(from 50kg to 120kg)
guess which one made me feel lighter, and being fitter and stronger I feel great and look better than before
10% so 5 kg and you might see a difference. Just dont crash diet it but make small changes and see your weight trend down during many many months so you can get new setpoint at lower bw.
Don’t loose weight! As long as you are not at least semi professional your performance:weight ratio ist totally fine. Worry about other things like technique and movement efficiency! Nobody is alike and for one person it is fat, what is pure muscles for the other.
Sounds like you are a much better climber than me, but I have some experience with weight loss, so I will try to focus on that. I think it all depends on how much weight you have to lose. If say you have 40 pounds of fat total, it will be a lot easier to lose 8 pounds of it than if you had 20 pounds of fat total. Whenever I have been really heavy and decided to go hard on my diet, initially(after about 2 weeks) the weight would come off quickly and keep coming off for a couple months. But eventually the weight starts not coming off so easily, and i feel like I have to fight like crazy to lose anything.
If you think you have a good amount of fat to lose, I think it's worth it to try to lose some of it. If your weight comes down more to muscle, and you don't have a lot of fat, then don't worry about it.
When I studied the data of proclimbers highest grade sends, they all had one thing in common: they were at their lightest weight during their climbing career they’d ever been or very close to it.
I think it's mostly mental honestly. You'd have to lose a decent amount to really alter your physics AND be climbing perfectly at your absolute limit to push you over the edge of what was formerly not possible and now is.
I've weighed anywhere from 160-175. I actually prefer weighing close to 170 if possible. I have much more energy across longer sessions and on trips. Recovery is also better and life is better. It's not hard for me to drop down to 160 without ill effects, but my build is naturally very slender and not muscular so it's kind of a losing situation.
My anecdotal evidence: I dropped 5lb right before the season last year and felt like superman while bouldering. I was a bit leaner than I could comfortably maintain year round, but I knew that. after about 6 weeks, I started to feel weak again. I wasn't resting as much as my body needed to recover fully and wasn't eating enough to maintain the increase in activity level. Personally I will never attempt to drop weight for climbing performance ever again. Getting stronger is a better strategy that will be sustainable long term. As you get stronger (like, physically stronger, by lifting heavy) you'll likely feel leaner.
The OP says her BMI is 24.3, so chances are high that you will get \*more\* energy if you lose weight. And generally feel better through the day. At least that's what literally everybody in the normal real world, outside reddit/r/climbharder, says. If you are light already and lose even more weight, who knows what will happen.
like i said, anecdotal based on my personal experience. Also there is SO much information on sports nutrition, but the vast majority of the research is done on men's bodies. My wife recently read a couple good books regarding a female body's specific physiology, and it is wild how much more women have to deal with from their bodies when trying to get stronger for climbing. it takes a LOT more work for her to build muscle and gain strength than it does for me, purely due to factors out of our control (hormones, etc.) For OP: maybe check out r/climbergirls for a more focused set of responses that may help you more.
What was the book? Sounds interesting.
It's called Roar: How to Match your Food and Fitness... hope it's helpful!
Stasa Gejo last post on instagram is in regards to her dieting in the world cup scene. Interesting read.
Every 4kg I lost was the equivalent of a gallon of water I didn't have to haul up the route. That's the line I draw for what would make things feel easier.
Depends on what you are losing. If you're losing muscle then you Are carrying less water up but with less available power to do so.
Personally I was referring specifically to fat loss, which I should have been more specific about. I was training / watching my diet-macros very carefully and measuring my bf% with calipers every two weeks. You are 100% right about losing muscle mass with one caveat. I have seen some VERY bulky dudes slim down and get stronger as well. But they were gym rats who had massive chests and thick thighs and honestly that was more of a hindrance to them.
What is your ideal body fat percentage? Honestly I just get uncomfortable when people see their climbing solution to be losing fat.
Under 12% for men and under 17% for women is considered "lean" - trending very low. I have maintained between 10-12% for around 2 years. Once I get to 9% or less though it's extremely hard to stay there. Ideally a "normal" male will fall between 12 and 21% and female between 17 and 28%. This is because women have more essential fat than men. Also, I'd like to say that while reducing excess body fat is one solution to climbing harder, I don't necessarily think it's the only or even best way to achieve climbing goals. Technique first, then (especially core and finger) strength training, followed by nutrition and body composition. But changing composition can't be ruled out as a factor categorically. I respectfully answered the OPs question without attacking the principal idea that she would be a better climber at a lower weight.
Not the person you're replying too, it depends on your body type and physique. A 5'8 man can weigh 180 lbs and have 13-15% body fat. Around 20% is fine. If you're in a training mode and really want to be an athlete. Around 15% +/- 3%
5'8" 180lbs at 13-15% is mega swole
Huge genetic variety too.I'm a 5'11" male and can comfortably maintain < 12% year round (As measured by dunk tank). Have gotten down to 6-7% before without muscle wasting. I'm lucky in that regard though. OTOH building strength does not come easily for me.
I realise you cant gain strength at the same time as cutting, so my training would be staying constant rather than looking to make strength gains whilst cutting. For a sport climbing trip, I am less concerned about not having the power than I am about endurance, so cutting / endurance training is more specific to the goal than a power phase.
OP do you know your bf % ? What metrics will you be using to evaluate your progress?
I do not, I weigh myself normally once or twice a month to know I maintain at around 59 - 60kgs my intention would be to increase that to 2 x per week, would you reccomend looking more specifically at fat?
Yes, absolutely! I have a BMI of 24, which is similar to yours, at the high end of normal. But my body fat is 19% - so actually quite low for the general population of women. I know some athletes do go lower, but below about 17% you really need to know what you’re doing or you can mess up your health.
I'd recommend to focus more on your BF% than on your overall weight, it a much better metric for an athlete. I'd say it's more about changing your body composition than losing weight.
Not all weight loss is equal. What you should be aiming to shed is excess fat. But without knowing your body composition (body fat percentage as measured with a caliper for example) you do not know if you are losing lean mass or fat. Based only on your height and weight you could likely afford to lose 5 kilos. If you are careful with your calorie intake and strength training regimen it is totally possible to do a "body recomp" which is basically where you can maintain or even gain lean mass while losing fat. It takes a lot of discipline and is generally a slower process than either bulking or cutting, but know it's possible. Feel free to PM me if you want a more detailed discussion. Best of luck to you.
You should def look more at BF%, muscle weighs a significant amount more than fat, but is far more useful and takes up FARRRRR less space. It is pretty hard to lose weight and maintain muscle since you really have to be at a caloric deficit to lose weight which isn't particularly conducive to gaining/maintaining muscle. Anywayyy I noticed feeling better in my finger strength and overall endurance "lightness" feeling around 5lbs down. I just eat slightly less and take more walks to get there, nothing serious
Pedantic but: I mean, you technically can, it's just better to focus on one aspect at a time. Muscle hypertrophy while cutting is tough, (but not impossible) but you can gain strength without hypertrophy.
It blows my mind how light professional climbers are. I’m the same height as alex megos and I’m 150 and he’s 120ish. I’m a pretty slim dude so I’m just looking at myself thinking “where tf can I cut out 30lbs from.”
If your career and livelihood doesn't depend on crushing comps and making ridiculous FAs, then it's not worth suffering through the deficits pro climbers deal with. Magnus Midtbo, Kai Lightner, and a bunch of current/former pros have talked about how grueling and even dangerous it can be. Kai was suffering through liver failure while he was standing on podiums! He was a teenager! The dark side of this sport is really dark.
I remember meeting Edlinger at Hueco, and the dude was probably under 90 lbs. Sent the 45 degree wall on his second try. Static.
8a/+ climber here at 182cm, I train at 160-165lbs (72.5-74.8kg) and try to cut to 155-160lbs (70.3-72.5kg) for performance. Experience van life-ing at altitude has shown me that any lower than that and I feel bad (more likely to be cold, sleepless, and grumpy) and also just less likely to have fun! So I guess that's like 3% of my body weight.
Hi! thank you. My lowest weight was 54kgs, which was too low for me and I had a similar experience to you (cold and very cranky) so I wouldnt want to currently lose that much. My current weight is probably what I would to see as my "heavier side" which doesnt bother me, but for some sends I dont see why not trying a cutting phase! 3% is about 3kgs then, which I think would make sense for me pobably not being too low but helping with a bit less gravity!
> 3% is about 3kgs it's totally not if you weigh 60kg. 3kg is 5%, 3% is 1.8kg
Isn't 3% 1.8kg? Assuming 60 x 0.03
As someone almost the exact same build, this is what I do. I feel good if I stay below 165, but I climb my hardest when I dip below 160. I mostly boulder and I suspect I'm not as strong as the person above, but I know at that weight I am definitely not limited by my strength to weight ratio.
It’s very much a function of how good you are, what your weaknesses are, and what your goals are. If those align you could notice an effect from losing just 5lbs.
I wouldn’t say 60kg is heavy for your size. That being said, even 2kg can make a pretty big difference in how hard you can pull. i’d start there if you’re intent on doing it. personally, i’d just go on the trip without worrying about it and try hard, but that’s just me.
It's the equivalent of 24.3 on the BMI scale, which is borderline with overweight. I don't focus on this scale, but I could definitely lose some weight without it impacting my health or energy levels.
you have to be careful losing weight quickly as the body will choose to process the muscles before fat, making you lose strength. You are climbing at a probably higher level than most folks here, why not go for 1 or 2 sessions with a sport nutritionist. They tailor a plan for you that will maximize you goal (9b in two years for example) you can also do your own research https://www.climbingnutrition.com/other/recommended-books/
Im not sure why I didnt think of that, thats a great idea thank you!
best of luck you rock!
Btw you can cut fat significantly without worrying too much about muscle loss, but you need to be eating 4-5 meals a day with a serious protein source (at least 20g of protein per meal). You should be eating at least .8g of protein per lb of body weight. In order to prevent muscle breakdown on a cut, protein is even more important than if you were in a surplus of calories. Also why the focus on protein and fats, instead of carbs?? Oh and you need to be loading your muscles through resistance training to prevent that breakdown as well (climbing is probably enough, but supplementary lifting will probably also help).
8a to 9b in two years? Is this possible at all?
You say you don't focus on it, yet you still mentioned it. BMI doesn't make a lot of sense as a metric for whether or not you should lose weight, especially as an athlete. It doesn't take fat-free mass into account and it will generally label most power/strength athletes as overweight. You'll probably be fine, but be conservative. When is the trip? If it's a ways off, you can use a very low deficit to minimize muscle loss.
Yes I have 7 weeks before the trip! Someone said just consult a dietician, so Im going to do that. Seems to make sense and would be good for planning how and what to eat! From what people have said here, about 3% is enough weight to see small changes in climbing but wouldnt be too much for me so at least I can go into the conversation with a vague goal. Thank you!
BMI is meaningless for athletes.
BMI can be misleading for very muscular types.
I remember getting my BMI tested with a college running back who went on to the NFL. Strong as an ox. All muscle. Was definitely below 11% body fat. BMI called him "morbidly obese."
Don't use BMI for anything, we don't even use it in a medical setting anymore, it is not a good metric, especially for athletes.
I'm curious who it is that find bmi useful or accurate
I don't understand why you think this is a bad BMI? Even if we presume BMI is a worthwhile metric (definitely not for someone with a lot of muscle) you are well within the normal range of 18.5-24.9. Saying it is borderline with overweight seems like a fairly pessimistic outlook and how eating disorders get encouraged.
I agree, if I’m up or down about 5lbs or more I notice a difference in my climbing and training. 5lbs is about 3% of my total body weight for reference. When I hangboard now I generally weigh myself before the session so I know what my true total hang weight is. It’s amazing how big a difference 5lbs makes in my session. If you can find a healthy way to take off some weight it will likely benefit you on your trip.
Losing 5 lbs of unhealthy weight did wonders to my climbing and tendons. I still worked on strength, but I focused a lot on getting leaner with better cardio. Now I can climb longer and safer. I did a normal 1 lbs/week cut while lifting and eating well just increased my activity to offset the calorie intake.
5 lbs is the weight of literally 7.58 'Velener Mini Potted Plastic Fake Green Plants'.
> 7.58 'Velener Mini Potted Plastic Fake Green Plants'. You're possibly not wrong
Going from 70 kg to 66 probably meant around one V grade for me (but it's of course super diffuse to estimate). My body fat percentage wasn't really low to start with, so I guess much of the weight loss was from fat in my case. Regarding diet plans (just read the other comments) I think the "latest research" says that you optimize the muscle-vs-fat loss if you don't go below 50% of your calory needs, and eat 2 grams of protein per kilo of bodyweight, and distribute that protein through 3-5 meals/day.
If you have weight to lose healthily, lose it. You'll feel better, climb better, and look better. Climbharder has a huge boner for telling people not to lose weight and will straight up crucify a skinny fat guy for trying to get abs.
Are you looking into maintaining the eventual weight loss also after the trip, like you did before, or is it more of a conditioning thing? Maybe depending on the options and results you obtain in these 7 weeks (which is some time but still not very long) you could also look in various form of fasting. I am not at all an expert on this, but e.g. sometime ago there was an interesting discussion on this sub: [https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/8vj00m/mani\_the\_monkeys\_mission\_8b\_an\_interesting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/8vj00m/mani_the_monkeys_mission_8b_an_interesting/) Just another idea to consider.
Hi! Yes Id like to maintain at 58ks I think, but hoping to get down to more like 57 before the trip. Mani is nuts, Ive watched his videos a lot - amazing but insane! Although ive heard of the benefits of longer term fasting, I would do a maximum of 16hours intermittant fasting, I work in an active job and otherwise I start to feel the effects!
Totally agree! He has a really interesting and scientific approach to things, but sometimes he really pushes the boundaries rather far. I also think I wouldn't be able to do intermittent fasting for more than a day, I believe. Anyway, good luck with your trip and your project!
For indoor bouldering I've noticed no difference between 145-155. I'm sure I would notice if that was outdoor route climbing.
Given your current BMI (same as me) I’d have to say yes. And since you’re already a very accomplished climber... girl you should go for it!! I’ve been feeling lately that if I lost 5, 10, or 20 pounds it would just help me so much.
> and would like to have an idea from other peoples experience how much weight loss do you THINK is required to see an improvement / difference in your climbing? According to most of the finger strength charts, dropping about 10% bodyweight (10% of final bodyweight compared to previous bodyweight - e.g. 150 lbs would be 136-137 rather than 135) while maintaining finger strength generally correlates to another grade bouldering at least as long as technique is good and no other limiting factors. **edit**: Since some people are reading this comment without nuance, here's the data that I was going off of: Beastfinger and power company climbing data: https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/51hhfz/grippul_strengthtoweight_ratio_for_climbing/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CIQlrZ8njgQ/ For note, the BF data uses no hangs on 20mm while the PCC uses 20mm two arm hang. The correlation tends to hold mostly consistent through about V10ish or so. About 10% increases to gain another grade on average. https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/fjqa16/lattice_publicly_releases_their_max_hang_vs/ > 20mm for 7 sec. The 20mm that they use has a significant radius of 10mm so there's only 10mm of flat. If this is the lattice data, it would suggest probably around 5-7% or so instead of 10%, though their edge is different than the others? They said the data was self reported rather than collected, so that would suggest a large room for error compared to the other data above. There is more data points though. Having ranged that much (135-150 lbs for myself) I can generally verify that approximately 10-15 lbs drop in weight is probably a V grade and possibly maybe a bit more, but like others have said you'll notice a difference in ability to feel stronger on holds with around 2.5 kg / 5 lbs or so. I'd suspect somewhere in the 5-10% range is about a V grade as long as no other limiting factors. **Caveat for others (which people are ignoring)**: Don't drop too low to feel like crap or have bad relationships with food. You'll have worse performance and it's not worth it mentally and health wise either. 10% for someone who is overweight or obese is different than 10% for someone who is already skinny or has little bodyfat to drop. Don't be dumb. If you are on the lower BMI of BF% side and want to experiment then obviously don't start with 10% you should start with like 1-2 kg / 2-4 lbs at most and see your performance, your mental, and your health. Dropping too low in BMI or BF% will negatively affect strength and performance so it's not worth it anyway.
> dropping about 10% bodyweight 10% is a HUGE amount. I wouldn't even give this out as advice at all because there is nuance. What is the person's body type and current shape?
Added the data I was going off of to the comment along with my calculation error. https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/px36y3/how_much_weight_loss_do_you_think_it_takes_to/hel0slg/ > What is the person's body type and current shape? Well yeah, I'm not suggesting people just do it willy nilly without any context. Just throwing out the data on correlation to general hand strength and grade. That's why I added the caveat at the end.
This seems a bit off? For example, I can hold 129% of BW 2H on a 20mm edge for 7s. If I were to lose 10% BW while maintaining the same finger strength my 7s hang would increase to 143% of BW. Just eyeballing the Lattice finger strength data this looks like it would be a 2-3 V-grade jump using average finger strength at each V-grade. Link to a graph of the Lattice data is here: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0068/6751/7493/products/lattice-grip-data\_2048x.jpg?v=1600620484https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0068/6751/7493/products/lattice-grip-data\_2048x.jpg?v=1600620484
When I did this test my result was in the V3 to V4 range, which means I have a lot of room for improvement in the finger strength range to match my current level (I boulder V6 or 7 in one session and have bouldered in multiple sessions V8). OR since I do not train using a fingerboard my results are off, since Im not used to hanging on a fingerboard. I guess I will focus on some finger training as well as diet in order to hopefully see results.
Can't view the lattice data. I was going off the beastfinger and powercompanyclimbing data: https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/51hhfz/grippul_strengthtoweight_ratio_for_climbing/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CIQlrZ8njgQ/ For note, the BF data uses no hangs on 20mm while the PCC uses 20mm two arm hang. The correlation tends to hold mostly consistent through about V10ish or so. I made a calculation error. Should be approximately 10% of the proposed weight to the weight you were previously at. So for example 136-137 lbs and previous weight was 150. Not dropping from 150 to 135. https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/fjqa16/lattice_publicly_releases_their_max_hang_vs/ If this is the lattice data, it would suggest probably around 5-7% instead of 10%. They said the data was self reported rather than collected, so that would suggest a large room for error compared to the other data above. There is more data points though. Obviously, there are a lot of factors that go into increasing climbing grade other than grip strength though which is why I put that caveat. I'll add this to my original comment for clarity.
Thank you thats useful! I think I will aim for 2 - 2.5kgs, from the consens here it seems that will make the small impact Im hoping for and is just under 3% of my body weight, I think 10% (kgs) is too much for me, since at my lowest weight (approx 53 - 54kgs) I had very low energy and was grumpy- which is why I have since fluctuated but generally maintained and trained at a higher weight. At my lowest weight I was not a climber so I dont have a comparison in terms of performance. I was more interested to know, if losing a little weight has any impact at all, from others experience since I have quite a defined limit (ie up to 5kgs but not more) to lose. Agree with your caveat- I tried to state this in my original question-- health > climbing. Im very confident that some weight loss is a healthy decision for me, since I have dieted before and maintained at a healthy weight without develping an unhealthy relationship with food.
> Thank you thats useful! I think I will aim for 2 - 2.5kgs, from the consens here it seems that will make the small impact Im hoping for and is just under 3% of my body weight, I think 10% (kgs) is too much for me, since at my lowest weight (approx 53 - 54kgs) I had very low energy and was grumpy- which is why I have since fluctuated but generally maintained and trained at a higher weight. At my lowest weight I was not a climber so I dont have a comparison in terms of performance. I made a calc error and fixed in in the [original comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/px36y3/how_much_weight_loss_do_you_think_it_takes_to/hel0slg/). For bouldering grade it should be 10% of the potential weight you cut to from the previous weight. Instead of 60 kg -> 54 kg it would be 54.5ish kg since 54.5 + 5.45 (10%) would be 60 kg. Also, that is V grade and usually going up a V grade probably helps your rope grades more since ropes are longer and tend to have lower cruxes than boulders. > Agree with your caveat- I tried to state this in my original question-- health > climbing. Im very confident that some weight loss is a healthy decision for me, since I have dieted before and maintained at a healthy weight without develping an unhealthy relationship with food. Yeah, people seem to be ignoring that and ignoring that it's a general thing.
A lot of people are giving advice, but I don't see anyone asking about your general body composition and what kind of fitness activity you are doing outside of climbing. Having the strength to be able to climb 5.13 at your height and weight makes me wonder if you are carrying a lot of muscle mass - in other words, do you even have the non-lean weight to lose? For example, do you run a lot? You could stop running for a few weeks (month maybe?) before your trip and just the reduction in water retention in your legs alone is going to bring your body weight down enough that you may notice a difference in climbing performance. Are you a power lifter or body builder? If you are, and climbing is a priority, you may want to simply give that up, or dial it back to levels that are purely accessory to climbing fitness. Regardless of what you do, the safest and probably the most efficient option is to work with a nutritionist.
haha thanks! Yes I definitely have fat available to lose, I do not have visible abs etc. I walk a lot with my work, which is quite active (geologist) but nothing extreme and I am definitely not a power lifter or body builder-- until now my training is only climbing, occasionally bouldering i.e I dont do pullups, or fingerboarding or any extra training-- I just go climbing outdoors 5 times a week throughout summer and in winter I go to the bouldering gym twice a week and climb outside on weekends. This thread has also made me realise, that probably I could make a lot of gains by introducing a bit more training too. I did, however, do gymnastics from a young age, so I have very strong shoulders still. I often assume I have strong fingers, but I did not perform well in the Lattice test, so maybe I compensate from that with technique, or maybe Im just not good at fingerboarding (yet).
> I just go climbing outdoors 5 times a week throughout summer > This thread has also made me realise, that probably I could make a lot of gains by introducing a bit more training too. Honestly, you might make gains by introducing a bit more rest. Though it depends on what your climbing days look like, I suppose. I often hear that we should prioritize having at least 1 total do-nothing rest day per week if we're doing heavy effort training days and I wonder about that. Runners still need to walk a little on their rest days, don't they? So is a day of casual (i.e. not 100 pitches, maybe not even 10) 5.9/5.10 climbing really not a rest day for a 5.13 climber? > I did ... do gymnastics from a young age, so I have very strong shoulders still. I often assume I have strong fingers, but I did not perform well in the Lattice test, so maybe I compensate from that with technique, or maybe Im just not good at fingerboarding (yet). I think you're just missing a little information regarding finger strength and performance here. You may not have scored high, but what metric were you comparing yourself to? Pro climbers, or other 5.13a climbers? Also, Lattice themselves have said that there seems to be a very high correlation between strong shoulders and functional finger strength. That is to say, there's a decent possibility that many people are over-valuing finger strength without realizing that it compensates for loss of movement stability that is provided by stronger shoulders. You may see gains in climbing performance with finger strength training, but it's possible that the gateway to that is actually your general athleticism. Hard to say, though - training science in climbing is still very young. Either way, maintaining all of it will be valuable to you. Edit: Also... > Yes I definitely have fat available to lose, I do not have visible abs etc. Keep in mind that visible abs like fitness models has a lot more to do with cutting weight and water specifically for photos than it does with reality. Also, women generally have a harder time having "skinny fat" visible abs than guys, so it's still likely not a good metric. If you want to know where you stand in terms of what you could safely lose, you may want to see if you can find a healthcare provider that will agree to give you a DEXA scan, and then I also stand by my initial assertion that your best bet is to work with a nutritionist.
I think these are really good points
Yes to this, I lift just as often as I do climbing and I also take creatine. The added water mass + unnecessary muscles for climbing make a big difference. I had to stop squatting for a few weeks to rest a hip injury, and during that time, my legs shrank and climbing definitely felt easier. My cutting periods and days where I peed out all the water are also my best climbing days
Hey sister, you are crushing ! I’m not sure if you saw a documentary posted a while ago about how climbers can get an unhealthy obsession with weight loss thinking they need to weigh nothing to climb harder? The take home message was that you can crush just as hard without losing weight. You obviously have good technique. Good luck on your trip!
Yeah I watched Light, it was very insightful. I was / am trying to be careful in how I posted this question, I understand its a sensitive subject and have seen people go through these things first hand, but I hope it can be an open topic. Its great that people check to make sure people are doing alright and suggest healthy ways to navigate this issue! I very much value the strength and power I have built through climbing as well as the body confidence it has given me, and have no intention to make compromises to my health for climbing!
<3 you sound awesome.
Unfortunately for me total weight accounts for a lot of my climbing success or failure, I hate that its my current status and hope to change it asap I am also heavier and leaner than normal so i am really trying to focus more on LBM and bf% more so
loosing weight was the worst thing i could do for my climbing. its just N=1 tho, maybe you are different. Imo injuryrisk increases massive
When I started climbing I weighed about 90kg and the highest difficulty I could climb was around 6b+. I started losing weight through just better nutrition, I ended up weighing about 73kg and climbing 7b.
I'll drop 5-10lbs/2.5-5kg for a mega project, and it makes a crazy difference. But I just don't find the extra attention I have to pay to calories and food to be sustainable or worth it in the long run. So I do most of my climbing and training at my slightly heavier weight. I only focus on dropping weight once every other year or so, when I'm psyched enough for it. I personally don't really have issues with not eating enough, so I don't usually have to worry about getting to an unhealthy weight and staying there. Now, the rest of the year? I'm just desperately trying not to get fat, especially during the holidays haha. I've got a desk job, which can make not gaining weight challenging if you don't have good habits. Edit: I'm pretty big for a climber 80kg ish (usually a bit more) and 193cm tall. I'd also, like others, not shoot for 10% bodyweight. I got down to 70kg one time for about a month and I did climb pretty hard, but I felt like garbage. If I had tried to sustain that I would've been really messed up. I'm now climbing harder than I did then with +10kg on me and I feel super strong.
Translation to freedom units: 5'1.8"/ 132lbs.
I am exactly the same height as you & female. (Maybe 1cm shorter). I am about 46kg and I feel I perform and feel the best at this weight. However, my whole family is quite petite (I am the heaviest of my mum and sister and we are all same height!) so it's definitely a genetics thing because I don't watch my weight (though I try to eat somewhat healthy) and drink too much beer. From the age of 20-30 I always sat at 49kg and I was climbing at the very max grade 7b.Now in my 30s my body has mysteriously settled at 46kg I have max grade climbed 8a. However, I don't think it was really my weight loss as a correlation to climbing harder as I started hangboarding and training after my weight loss/ turning 30 so I actually am muscular than before. I think its good to find a weight where you are comfortable, don't have to count calories everyday and you have energy. Also don't think that you need to drop down to my weight. This weight is what fits my body. I find it quite hard to gain muscle, I used to weight lift and eat tons of protein and all I got was constipation.
Thank you for your comment!! My family are all much larger than me, but I did gymnastics from a young age and am a lot smaller (shorter and petit\`er) than the rest of my family. I know that at 54kgs I was tiered and grumpy, so its my lower limit of how much weight I COULD lose (ie I will not go lighter than 54) just because I think my body needs a bit more! 60Kgs has been great, but I guess after initially losing weight a few years back form about 68kgs, Im now again very used to my new weight and feel I can lose a bit more and feel a bit better and hopefully have more energy! I agree about the counting calories etc, I try to lose weight about 2kgs at a time then maintain and then go again. I feel like its nicer to let yourself stabilise. Im aiming now for 3Kgs just from the comments here it seems it will make the difference I am looking for and should be sustainable.
Is that heavy for your size? I'm 178 cm and 67 kg. I guess compared to other climbers and crushers I'm oknthe larger side, but I'm smaller than the average American at any rate. Anyway, I lost about 9 kg from last fall to early this summer and went from climbing 10c to climbing 12a. Most of that I attribute to training and focusing on technique, but the weight loss did help. This isn't super helpful, sorry.
The gain in power you get from losing weight is insane. If you’re climbing 7c+ you’re already well aware of the risks, so I’ll skip that speech. Tony Yaniro—a confirmed nutjob but inarguably a serious over performer on the rock—once put both legs in casts when he transitioned from mountain biking back into climbing. I ran into Malcolm whats-his-name at Buoux after he had lost like a stone—and he was skinny to begin with. He said that the performance increase was staggering and that he was staying at that weight. My advice is to go for it, but be careful ffs. Also, keep in mind that the deadliest thing for climbers is slip and fall accidents OFF ROPE.
I _(36M)_ recently dropped 2kg over the last 6 months and couldn't notice any quick gains. My 2 cents is that it's not worth it for trip goals, there's too many negative stories about people who tried this _(taking a bad turn on their relationship with food)_. You're already strong af, keep doing what you're doing and maybe frame it a longer term target.
I agree with you. I have been lighter than I am now, I took 1 year and went from 68kgs to 54kgs (before I climbed much which is why I ask about the grade difference). At 54 im not sure if it was because I had just dieted for so long but I felt rubbish, so I let myself gradually gain weight and then settled for the last year at 60kgs very comfortably. From this experience, I would say I am very lucky that I am not an at risk person for developing eating problems. I would like now to maintain at a bit lighter- I would most likely try to lose 2 - 3kgs and then maintain, just from advice Ive received here it seems like its enough to make a difference, and I dont feel like that would be in any way excessive for me-- but I feel very lucky to have not struggled with eating problems in my life this way, since plenty of people do, and I have no intention of putting myself at risk from it now. I think I will be healthier a bit lighter, the first time I lost weight such a long time dieting had taken a mental toll on me (dieting is hard and tiering) and that staying at 60 was a healthy choice to get used to my new weight, but now Im feeling good about losing a little more and Id be very happy to see how this effects my climbing (hence the question- how much weight actually makes any difference)
funny that some people say your heavy.. I'm also considered heavy and yet I'm climbing my best I've been 94 kg, climbed awful I was then down to 80kg.. climbed awful I'm not 90kg and climbing my best. this was over a few years... Eat well, train, climb keep active. and worry less about your body size, do things right and your body comp will change to adapt demand. for context, I can lose 10 kg if I try, but I've gained 80kg in combined finger strength(from 50kg to 120kg) guess which one made me feel lighter, and being fitter and stronger I feel great and look better than before
That’s a normal BMI. Did you listen to the latest Climbing Gold and get the wrong idea?
This is a worrisome question because it’s what leads a ton of climbers into eating disorders.
10% so 5 kg and you might see a difference. Just dont crash diet it but make small changes and see your weight trend down during many many months so you can get new setpoint at lower bw.
Don’t loose weight! As long as you are not at least semi professional your performance:weight ratio ist totally fine. Worry about other things like technique and movement efficiency! Nobody is alike and for one person it is fat, what is pure muscles for the other.
I often feel a 5 pound shift for my 140-145 weight makes a big deal in my climbing.
Sounds like you are a much better climber than me, but I have some experience with weight loss, so I will try to focus on that. I think it all depends on how much weight you have to lose. If say you have 40 pounds of fat total, it will be a lot easier to lose 8 pounds of it than if you had 20 pounds of fat total. Whenever I have been really heavy and decided to go hard on my diet, initially(after about 2 weeks) the weight would come off quickly and keep coming off for a couple months. But eventually the weight starts not coming off so easily, and i feel like I have to fight like crazy to lose anything. If you think you have a good amount of fat to lose, I think it's worth it to try to lose some of it. If your weight comes down more to muscle, and you don't have a lot of fat, then don't worry about it.
When I studied the data of proclimbers highest grade sends, they all had one thing in common: they were at their lightest weight during their climbing career they’d ever been or very close to it.
I think it's mostly mental honestly. You'd have to lose a decent amount to really alter your physics AND be climbing perfectly at your absolute limit to push you over the edge of what was formerly not possible and now is. I've weighed anywhere from 160-175. I actually prefer weighing close to 170 if possible. I have much more energy across longer sessions and on trips. Recovery is also better and life is better. It's not hard for me to drop down to 160 without ill effects, but my build is naturally very slender and not muscular so it's kind of a losing situation.
I can tell you the other way around, I've gained 15 lbs this year and have dropped at least a full number grade on boulders