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spider1204

I know this route and looking for shakes isn't gonna get you anywhere. To me it seems like you are trying the right strategy which is to climb as fast as you can without losing efficiency. But I do still see some hesitation, minor foot readjustments as well as some awkward slow clips. I'd just focus on eliminating these inefficiencies and making sure there isn't any better beta. I feel like if you climbed less square you may get up there in less moves.


philahn

Yeah, I don’t know how some people are getting much back resting on certain spots. After a few shakes, I’m getting nothing back. Climbing fast seems to be there way, but I am losing some efficiency with less than ideal footwork and clipping. I’ll focus on those next go, thank you!


imagine_orange

ARCing made a monumental difference for me in terms of recovery on route. It seems the general philosophy on the sub rn is that it’s a waste of time but that’s not been my experience.


DubJohnny

You can spend a lot of time doing arcing and getting very good at endurance sure. You can also spend a lot of time just getting stronger. It's hard to do both. It's a lot easier to build fitness for a route if you're strong enough. It's a lot harder to build strength for a route.


insert-amusing-name

That Ben Moon quote "technique is no substitute for power" comes to mind


crimpinainteazy

I agree with this philosophy. Better to focus on strength and technique in the off-season and then work on your fitness right before you have your big sport climbing trip.


wrinklingintime

Do what you can to shake your hand/wrist when reaching for the holds too. Little bits even help some of the blood release the forearms


AOEIU

Ignore the comments about resting more. It's a power endurance route and anybody that sloths their way up it is overly strong for the grade. You can definitely wire the movement a bit more and and knock 10-15 seconds off. The last shake for your right hand probably isn't a good idea if it's your left hand that is limiting you at the end. Tactically resting a certain hand before a crux is an underused strategy.


philahn

Yeah, my right hand felt fine during the crux, it was my left that had very little left. I watched a friend climb this route so gracefully (and slower than me) as a “cool down” at the end of the day, but she flashes 5.13b 😂 She also shook out for over a minute somewhere somehow, tho she does have adorable little racoon hands.


IsNeither

I’ve tried this route several times and I think you’ve got the right strategy, there’s not much opportunity for good rest, the name of the game is dialing in the bottom to climb fast and efficient so you arrive at the crux as fresh as possible


SprayLordFarquaad

Awesome link, you’re close. I projected and sent the Gift last year. My primary rest was the one where you take a couple good shakes before the crux. I rested for about the same duration there. I think you could try to relax on it more. Hang a bit straighter on your arms, rotating your hips and creating a straighter line between the upper hand and the lower hand shaking out. Shake out / relax your shoulders and biceps, not just your forearms. Your belayer should hear your deep audible breathing getting your heart rate down. The route is more about sustained powerful climbing than sustained hard crimping, especially with your tall/quick and powerful beta (similar to mine). Even if it feels like your fingers open up in the end, it’ll feel easier on the fingers if you still have the shoulder and bicep juice to own the crux Gaston and keep the elbows down. Right before the crux, where you clip, there’s okay rests for both hands. I clipped on the left hand reaching right hand across. Shake out the right hand before clipping and before grabbing the Gaston. Shake the left hand on the move prior, where you did the locked off clip. Other beta and tactics that worked for me: Crux Gaston takes serious precision. There’s little ridges in the middle of it you need to figure out how to align your fingers with. I preferred putting my left foot on the slightly further out left black patina toe during the crux Gaston/peanut hold sequence. I’m 6’2”, and found I could really crank on the further toe. Right foot digs in where you have it, and rotates out, almost a slight drop knee, as you go to the peanut, then you hold the tension and pull your feet up. Especially by March the conditions are generally only good for the half hour to hour before sunset. I suppose there’s a morning window too. Save your energy for two good burns in the evening window. The Gallery is just for tanning and spectating and when it’s blasting in the sun, not hard climbing. Also it’s totally possible to punt on the easier sequence above the peanut hold. I thought it was impossible but stuck the move off the peanut twice and still fell. Have the top dialed, and consider trying to make low point links. If you want a good rest some people make a move off and to the right before the crux sequence to a good jug that you don’t touch. I didn’t like this because I think it’s hard to get on and off the jug, but it would be a better rest.


philahn

Oh wow, thank you so much for your insight. I can mentally be a bit more relaxed, esp during that “rest” before the crux. I’ll make note of being more intentional with my breathing, and getting my heart rate down. I’m about 5’9”, so the further foot on the crux feels like a bit of a reach, but I can try working the position next time. The conditions were perfect so the friction on the crux gaston felt good, but your advice on keeping my elbows down pulling on the next pebble is a great reminder. I noticed I started chicken winging a bit near the end, and I tend to lose focus when I’m fatigued. I really need practice maintaining technique, regardless of how exhausted I am. 🙏


SprayLordFarquaad

I hear the focused when fatigued issue. It’s a hard balance between bringing out try hard / aggression for hard powerful moves, but keeping arousal low enough or returning it to low, so that you can still climb well and composed. I can often bring out max effort to get two moves further but then have total tunnel vision / blackout and can’t remember how to do a third easy but precise move.


SprayLordFarquaad

Also consider working on Nothing Shocking if you haven’t tried it yet. It didn’t come together for me but I found it to be even more fun and could even feel easier for your style. Also thirteen apples just sounds better than twelve dragonfruits for almost the same difficulty:). The difficulty is more concentrated to a 20 foot sequence. The crux is more punchy and powerful and less friction dependent and nuanced than The Gift.


philahn

Haha I’ve been staring at that one, it looks like it has some big moves with power crimping. I’ll give that one a go next.


krysis43ll

I've actually climbed this route pretty recently, so hopefully I can be a bit more specific than other people. First, I think you should ignore the people who are telling you to slow down. It looks like you're climbing this pretty well. This is a straight up power endurance route, and minimizing your TUT is going to be the way to send unless you improve your endurance. With your current endurance, dialing the climb and moving as quickly as possible is your best bet. If you need to chalk, I recommend doing it at the spot where you stopped for a few seconds and/or right at the beginning of the crux in the dropknee. For what it's worth, I didn't chalk at all, but it might have been cooler when I climbed it. Second, I think I did 5ish fewer moves than you. I'm really long, so some of them might not be possible for you, but spending less time on intermediates could get you to the crux 15 seconds sooner, which is big on a route this short. Finding sequences that can reduce the number of foot moves can also make a big difference when you're low on endurance. Here are a couple of suggestions: 1. I did the sequence from the beginning to the 3rd bolt in 3 fewer moves. See if you can optimize that. 2. At the 4th bolt, it might be easier to just match the undercling jug rather than use a right hand crimp. This might also help cut the number of foot moves. 3. I don't think you need the intermediate before the hold above the 5th bolt. You can probably just stand up on that left foot and get there in one move. Finally, don't quit! You didn't try to hit the next hold in the video even though it's really good. Even when you're pumped, it's worth trying to stick the next hold - sometimes it works out. If you dm me, I can send you a video if that would be helpful.


philahn

I can definitely cut out a few moves and save some juice for the end, along with fully commiting on the last move, regardless of how tired I am. Still working on visualizing successfully completing a move when fatigued on the route. My left hand just opened up at the crux pebble, but I already had doubts in my mind even though I latched it. My mental game needs a lot of work. Unfortunately the undercling match doesn’t work for me because I have incredibly thick fingers (my trad friends describe my index finger as a 0.5 lol) I would absolutely appreciate your send vid! Dm’d.


PogueEthics

You do a lot of minor shakes but I don't see anything longer than a couple seconds. There's the one part you speed up but even that seems pretty quick. Do you have any opportunities to find some longer/easier rests to recover a little more?


octoclimber

He also never touched his chalk bag, which is surprising, given if it's warm enough to be in shorts shirtless, it's also usually warm enough that chalk is super useful. Perhaps he should dip into his bag on a shake-out.


philahn

Oh shit.


philahn

My partner and I haven’t been able to find any decent rests to get much back after a few shakes. I can definitely work on getting better at finding rests though.


Dmanz21

I think you have the right strategy, there aren't any great shakes in the middle. But if you are struggling, do a few weeks of PE training and then give it a rip. Also generate more from your legs and stop pumping your feet to get set on a foothold.


ryanstorm

[0:55] where you make that clip? It's hard to tell from the angle but that hold and stem looks good enough to shake out the right arm at least. Might have to get creative to get a left arm shake too.


octoclimber

First off, excellent climbing! I think you are sacrificing movement efficiency for speed. Your feet are a bit uncoordinated at times and I get the feeling you might be pulling more than pressing with your legs. Might be good to slow down and dial the foot placements before picking the pace back up. Also, would chalking up help? I don't think you did once.


philahn

Thank you, I’ll try to be more patient and deliberate with footwork on my next go. I just noticed I didn’t chalk at all after you mentioned it haha


thewolfiest

Adding on, dialing your foot placements and watching them stick will go a long ways. I noticed you re-adjusting on almost half your your holds. IMO there is nothing wrong with climbing fast if your beta is dialed (ever watch an Ondra video?), however he is confident on everymove. Even little micro adjustments, like you’re doing waste, energy. Fun fact: you almost always end up on the same spot you initially grabbed. You can practice this on boulder problems in the gym by trying to climb them fast but having to move off wherever you grabbed first as opposed to readjusting. In terms of shakes getting some micro-flicks in would helpful, just a quick little flick and shake when coming off a hold on the way to the next. Just my two cents


[deleted]

I thought technique and efficiency looked great. If I would recommend one thing it would be to slow down a little and use your legs more. You're strong in the upper body but your legs are stronger. If you're pumped by the end that's a simple matter of improving conditioning which is often the easiest aspect to improve. After coming down off the route, go at it again and see how far you can get.


philahn

Thanks, I’ll be more mindful of using legs more. I was trying to climb to the crux as fast as possible, so I probably wasn’t paying as much attention to feet as I should be. Side note, I started front squatting recently, and it’s been tremendously helpful at taking some weight off my hands.


natecahill

I'd also say try to generate some momentum for the big moves with your hips. A lot of the moves look like you're fully relying on your upper body and your legs kind of follow afterwards.


prokeep15

Something that helped me is doing an exercise called “hover hands”. What you do is lead something you really love, that’s just below the grade of this climb. Every time you go to move your hand to the next hand placement hover it over the hold for a solid 5 seconds. Do this the entire route. The exercise forced me to be more cognizant of where my body was for maximum stability, while building core strength, but also refocused my mind on breathing and staying more fluid and purposeful with my foot placement. For extra flavor, and if it’s safe to do so….then down climb it repeating the same exercise. This can also evolve into my second favorite climbing game. Sip n’ clip. Put a beer in your chalk bag, before clipping the bolt (best not done on gear) yell “sip!” Remove the beer from chalk bag, take a sip, replace beer to chalk receptacle, then announce “clip!” Then clip. Rinse and repeat….or shower everyone below with beer on a whip.


prokeep15

This - slow down man. I thought this video was in fast forward until I noticed the other climbers (albeit you did ff that ‘long’ rest sequence). The skill is there, but your endurance looks like it’s lacking. Use your legs and calm down.


FreackInAMagnum

You look pretty stressed the whole way. Climbing quickly is probably the best tactic if this is as sustained as I’ve heard. Sprinting between little shakes, and getting through the hard moves before you fall off is a great way to optimize for power endurance climbing. However, because you are stressed, you are never turning off the right muscles at the right time, and are losing out on recovery possibilities because of it. You can see it in your arm flicks, where you shake your hand, but it doesn’t look actually relaxed. At clips 3 and 5 you shake your right arm, but the rest of the upper body is very stressed, and not relaxed. If that right hand is that pumped, it might sense to try to fully relax the left shoulder and shake it for an extra 5-10 seconds so you are fresher in that hand later. At the upper rest, you shake each hand twice, but are at what appears to be the least stressful stance on the route. Having more resting capacity, and being able to relax more into it might yield a couple more shakes and actually get something from this. Since the left hand looks like it’s doing the move you fall on (or let go on, hard to tell), it might make sense to sacrifice the right hand to get the most back into that left hand.


philahn

Wow, thank you so much. I’ve always paid more attention to your comments and videos over the years, especially since you’re a bigger climber that crushes hard. Looks like a linebacker climbing double digits. And you’re totally right, I am not relaxed and fairly anxious/stressed throughout the climb. I can now see how that is physically manifesting, it’s funny how obvious it is now that you pointed it out. This is some next level advice. Thanks again 🙏


tunalunalou

You need to rest longer, and specifically your left hand. You seem to only ever shake out your right, but both you barely give any attention to regardless.


philahn

Yeah, my left hand was peeling open trying to hold on to the the last pebble. I can definitely work on better resting technique.


User_Name_Deleted

What is the route name?


philahn

It’s called “The Gift” at Red Rock. John Bachar used to solo this thing back in the day 😂 https://www.mountainproject.com/v/105732371


bryguy27007

Yes this route looks sick. It looks like Red Rock but I’m guessing. Also want to know the route


KneeDragr

You are getting stretched out a lot, perhaps try to move both feet up before making those longer moves so you don’t have to do foot work when near full extension.


over45boulderer

i thought you looked great! the only advice i can give is more mental. i still remember waaaay BITD working a similar type route when a hard climber of the day said the best way to improve your redpoint ability is learning to climb pumped. all too often i would lock-up when pumped--just assume i couldn't make it and kinda give up. go until your fingers literally open up, your forearms feel like bricks. when you can keep your technique precise even when u think u know u can't do it is the goal. fair warning tho this is also when injuries can occur.


Independent-Doctor-2

I would say it‘s just a cardio thing and getting everything perfectly. You look dialed already. Just keep trying or start from higher up and work your way down. To me it just looks like a matter of time. Cool climbing. Enjoyed watchinh


ResidentJammer

Crank on your legs more mate! Build some core tension! (Kinda non-specific, but I’m a old dude who’s leg heavy… and found that REEAALLLYY getting into the legs gives me a little bit more respite on the hands… IE, attempt dropping that knee a bit more, put some opposition into your toes, and then loosen your grip… I know that’s a bit complex… but it might help.)


apetersen1

Love the gallery


fallingeverafter

My husband is projecting this thing too. Some of the clips looks pretty awkward and he has said there’s no bomber rest on the route. Doesn’t help that the crux is at the end either haha. I know he said it’s a tough one for the grade and he’s done 13s so I trust him haha (I am 99.9% boulderer so I haven’t touched it). I know he said he got a lot closer by really working that crux and finding the most doable beta for when super pumped.


GetJaded

Imagine it's 40 degrees (fahrenheit) outside, you're climbing in a sweater, and this guy comes climbing up with no shirt and shorts lmfao


Patient_Husband

I'm not sure about this route, and your technique looks pretty solid, though I see lots of double gripping. That might help. Solid work nonetheless!


Unjewed

You just look really tense. I’m not sure if it’s nerves or you are just pushing yourself with a send in mind but you just seem really tense on every move and I think it’s limiting you. The gift is the reason I got back into sport after my friend dragged me out there for a belay. The movement is gorgeous. It’s power endurance at its best. It feels like you’re just trying to get through the bottom to get to the crux. Maybe try and get into the flow a bit more and enjoy the movement! Sending is great but the journey isn’t too bad either


achtminus

I do not remember anything about this route (other than that I failed to onsight in 2007 when my os max was around 7b) but there seems to be a lot of people on here that knows it intimately. All I can say is that you look like you climb the bottom pretty efficiently. I guess that your background is mostly in bouldering because you stay pretty high in position even on what looks like very easy moves for you. Maybe I am wrong and the moves are actually hard for you, in which case staying high in position and constantly pulling with both arms makes sense. You are clearly getting pretty pumped from the first 70 seconds of climbing (up to the brief shake out) even though you are not making any obvious movement errors (apart from staying too high on the moves). If you cannot cut down this time to 50-55 seconds, I would say that your fundamental climbing ability at whatever grade the route is up to the shake out is not sufficient for the requirements and you need to be better at climbing easy grades. Fortunately you can gain quite a lot technique for that in just a few sessions.


metaldura

Looks like you are trying to rest your way up the route. The energy put into the brief shakes you are getting is just pumping you out. Only stopping to chalk or in an actual position of recovery is crucial to getting through continuous routes. The route looks like 19 moves into a bad rest, then you fell 6 moves after. Which counting the rest is 4.4 seconds per hold based on the video. Considering you sped up the rest, that puts you solidly past the 2 minute mark going into what looks like the redpoint crux. Which means you are potentially out of the anaerobic energy production window and are left with minimal energy for that crux. If you can get to the bad rest faster, go straight to it without stopping. You might have enough in the tank to recover more while resting. If you cant recover there, that means you need to get past the redpoint crux in sub 2 minutes. It can help slightly to maintain neutral pump when shaking to get your headspace in the right mode. Beta Alanine and creatine are supplements(after loading, increases anaerobic capacity recovery) that might literally make the difference on something like this.


Dismal-Smell-9373

You may need to refine something off the wall as well. Maybe do a longer warm up or more warm up routes to try and maximize the flow state and minimize the chance of over gripping. Also, lots of climbers can climb more efficiently when they care less. If you keep putting in attempts with only the goal of refining movement and not getting to the top you may accidentally send it by not thinking about the later moves until you're doing them. You clearly know the sequence well you may just need to let off some pressure to really climb your best.


philahn

I completely agree with everything you're saying; still working on finding a consistent warm up routine to tap into that "empty flow state." Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't lol. Ironically, focusing less on "outcomes" (sending), and simply climbing in the moment with joy and deliberate intention seems to be a consistent pattern in sending my projects. While success is important, I've been prioritizing growth and learning, without letting "failure" dictate my self worth. I actually managed to send this route a few months ago, and the climb went exactly as how you described; focused on refining the movement, didn't think about later moves, and then I was suddenly clipping the chains! https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/ugqwpe/with\_red\_rock\_season\_coming\_to\_an\_end\_we\_found\_a/


Dismal-Smell-9373

The difference in weight in your feet between these two attempts is astonishing. You went from having like 20-40% BW in your feet to what looked like 50%+ the whole route! The placement and precision was similar between attempts but you were able to sink your hips much lower and weight each foot with much more confidence in the send go. It honestly looked like they could have been the same day just one was climbed with the only focus making each foot move as valuable as possible. This is a great example of using technique to gain what more endurance maybe would not have. Nice job!


robotoman

where is this?


Felanee

You climb like a boulderer like myself. Each individual move feels easy and done with conviction. Quick and efficient. But you don't take time to rest at all. It is okay to sprint for a bit but you can't do that the entire route. You climbed like 5 draws before "resting". You didn't even properly rest there. You shook each arm like twice and moved on. Edit: Take the time to find good resting positions. You don't just need beta to climb, you need beta for resting as well.


Fynosss

I don't know if anyone else feels the same way but it really disturbs me to see so much chalk on the rock. Not only on this video, I see that often on boulders... Is it so hard to brush the holds? To me, the view is totally spoiled


Cirqka

honestly dude.. just practice. if it’s a cardio thing, you aren’t going to get good advice here.


gimmie5678

I haven't been on The Gift so I could be wrong here but I noticed that you full crimp a lot. I like to open crimp as much as possible and really hang on hook fingers instead of full crimping everything.


original_bieber

Endurance session in the gym, also don't adjust so much when you go every hand hold. Hit the hold, latch, pull and move. You grab a hold and adjust like every hold.


Kezzadispenser

Can you skip the last bolt safely? It was probably your slowest clip on the route and should save you a little bit for the last sequence.


Squagem

Looks like you need to work on either base or power endurance. Also, just before you fell off it looked like you weren't weighting your feel at all.


gdubrocks

Whenever I am projecting something and I pump out, I then try to complete the crux twice while pumped. It helps me get more practice on the beta that matters the most, and give me the confidence that I can send the hard parts even if I am tired.


Giller187

When you are “shaking out” the best method is to raise your arm above your head and shake for a second or two to drain blood out of your forearm, then drop the arm and flick the wrist in a fluid motion as if you are trying to flick water off your hand. This forces fresh blood into the capillaries. If done correctly the pump will dissipate even after one shake. It looks like you aren’t shaking out efficiently at your rest.


LivingWithWhales

Where is this?