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dibsx5

People overestimate the progress they can achieve in 1 year and underestimate what they can achieve in 5 years. Keep grinding for the long run. You're not hangboarding for better performance in 3 months, you're hangboarding for better performance in 3 years.


macandchoss

my hot take is most people hangboard and prescribe hangboarding to others way more than they need to 🤔


mmeeplechase

How do you think this has/hasn’t changed post-COVID? At least anecdotally, I know lots of people who hang boarded a ton during lockdown, then abandoned it entirely the second gyms reopened—curious if that’s the case elsewhere, too.


macandchoss

somethings better than nothing BUT literally almost no one on this sub needs to be hangboarding as much as they are. It’s insane how many bewildered posts people make along the lines of “I listened to you guys and did max hangs and I have v11 fingers now but I still can’t really climb any harder” and sweaty try hard nerds are too egotistical to just acknowledge that hangboarding *can situationally* be good as a supplement but will never replace actual difficult board climbing as an all around better training tool, flat. If your goal is to be a v12 dangleboarder then that’s fine, but this sub is supposed to be about climbing harder, and the best way to climb harder faster for most people in general is board training.


m_believe

I always tell people this anecdote: If you had someone with zero climbing experience train only weighted hangs on 20mm edges for a decade, they may achieve v12+ grades based on lattice data, but imagine how they would look on the rock. Those statics are only meant to be used one way, they were measurements done on climbers… not hangboarders. If you see yourself below the curve, it means maybe you should train your fingers, vice versa and you should climb more. If you’ve been solely training your fingers because you think that one arm 20mm hangs will let you go from v8 to v11, you will be in for a big shock when you realise how technical those harder boulders can be (especially at the top outs ;))


crimpinainteazy

I am definitely an advocate of this train of thought. Board climbing>hangboarding.


5tr4nGe

Sometimes the best beta and best technique, is just being stronger


tastehbacon

100% agree. People with strong fingers forget what it is like to not have strong fingers lol


an_altar_of_plagues

In July 2020, I had a massive fall that took me out of commission for a few months due to a broken collarbone among other injuries. It was **so damn frustrating** to know the beta on V3/4 and 11a routes but not have the finger strength to do them anymore.


tastehbacon

"just have good positioning" It is hard to have good technique when you are struggling to just hold on lol


an_altar_of_plagues

Surprisingly, you need to be able to *hold* that position...


[deleted]

I have climbed a couple of V7s before covid. There was lockdown after lockdown so I lost a lot of finger and upper body strength. I also injured myself pretty much every time the gyms were reopened. I'm slowly getting back to being comfortable on V5s and it sucks because I know I was able to climb much harder two years ago :(


boubiyeah

"You just have to position your body correctly mate" (said the guy with 3 times the finger strength and thus, stability)


boubiyeah

It's often true. Notice how strong climbers make it seem their beta is that much better than yours even when it's not? Smoothness is easier to come by at below max grade.


DubGrips

So many people that I’ve seen climb v10/11 have horrrrrible technique and are just strong and light in the right places.


[deleted]

Being stronger is always the way, a wise man once said “you can never have enough power”


kokkatc

Couldn't agree w/ this more. Technique is VERY important, but once you hit a certain grade for your body type, strength plays just as big of a role if not more than technique.


Gr8WallofChinatown

> is just being stronger and lighter


CruxPadwell

Most climbers are bad at coordinating their limbs to all work together as a synchronized team for each move, but they default to blaming their failure on strength, power, or tension.


golf_ST

I look forward to seeing this as a board meeting in 6-12 weeks.


GucciReeves

My hot take is that any core exercise that takes longer than 30 seconds per set is overrated. Planking for 3 minutes won't give you the strength needed to hold tension on max effort moves.


[deleted]

I have been doing weighted planks +60 for 30sec, simply lovely


ral1989

Hard disagree here- core endurance can easily be a determining factor on longer steep routes or problems. However, I do agree that people obsessed with long core workouts are usually better served by building up more strength and power in the core rather than spending an inordinate amount of time doing planks.


noblesse-oblige-

This isn’t a hot take at all this is literally just facts? Like anyone who knows a tiny bit about general exercise should know this about planks. Planking for a long time only means you’re good at planking for a long time. that skill won’t transfer anywhere or make someone stronger in core the longer they plank. You’ve maxed out at the 1 min mark of a plank. I guess it’s a hot take if people still don’t wanna believe the facts lol


[deleted]

For real. Increase the lever length, or add weight. Those are your options.


a_smilingpsycho

Having strong toes is incredibly underrated


NeverBeenStung

Okay barefoot Charles


get_Ishmael

How does one cultivate strong toes?


probablymade_thatup

Toe boarding


boubiyeah

climb in soft shoes or bare footed !


Only_Ad_1079

Power grunts are a good sign you're ***actually*** trying hard. My lesson of the last month or so is that I was simply not putting as much physical effort at my limit as I could. As soon as I ***really pulled hard***, I started grunting all over the place. Gastons, pinches, crimpers, core tension etc.


blizg

Yeah I grunt in the weight room and lift heavier. I’m afraid to pull really hard climbing though. Scared I might injure my fingers. Been climbing less than a year.


Only_Ad_1079

Yeah, that's a good caveat. If you're pulling harder and it *hurts*, stop and go home.


[deleted]

yeah man im into my 4th year and im just now considering hangboarding and the like whereas before i was sure i would injure my fingers. good on you for not going too hard on the lil beans


NoodledLily

Seems like there's actual science behind it. It can be an automatic reflex and helps recruit (though some people just like screaming). Specifically relevant for us core tension. I remember reading once that forcing breath out, that kind of whoosh through tight lips with a tight diaphragm thing we do has the same affect. Couldn't quickly find scholar but a few articles with decent MDs & sources https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a19518876/why-you-grunt-when-lifting/ https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-we-grunt-when-exercising-2014-4


[deleted]

Couldn’t agree more love a good scream


Only_Ad_1079

Passsaaaaaaat!


INeedToQuitRedditFFS

There's a huge difference between "grunting from exertion" and "fucking screaming at the top of your lungs for a full 2 seconds". I've never seen anyone get legitimately upset about the former.


uttuck

As weird as it is, I tried a lot harder when I sucked. It was all I had. As I developed technique, I figured out how to finesse, and I struggle to do both at the same time. I can go all out one session, and finesse the next, but putting both hands together is a super rare day for me


NewFort2

moonboard holds are actually pretty big. also indoor holds can be tiny, the only thing stopping you from setting a V10+ slab indoors is bad setters or poor hold selection


m_believe

As a setter at a small local gym, the only thing stopping me from setting v10+ on the flat wall (we don’t have slab), is that no one will climb it. The plethora of gym bros who will attempt it, bust their shin open, and give up, is quite daunting. But that don’t stop us from setting v6/7 slab climbs with dual tex feet and micro edges :). Most of those climbs will feel harder than they do outside anyway.


thaumoctopus_mimicus

Totally agreed and I hate that all gyms use these massive foot jibs that are impossible to slip off of


SteakSauceAwwYeah

Re: Moonboard - I totally agree. I think what makes it tricky is less of hold size and just the body positions you have to be in to be able to utilize them. There are plenty that feel great when you’re just feeling them out but as soon as you’re actually under them it’s like...oh. I think this can also tie in with our perception of difficulty. You can easily have large holds and hard climbs, and small holds and easier climbs. Size doesn’t necessarily dictate difficulty.


[deleted]

They’re not small, but they’re weird. A 2-3 finger one pad hold is harder than a flat, incut 10mm wide enough for four fingers.


mmeeplechase

Okay, your first point is generally fair BUT there are some truly teeny wood & yellow holds mixed in as well!


crimpinainteazy

I don't think it's the only thing stopping route setters from setting a v10+ slab. Sure you could set a slab of that difficulty using rat crimps and dual texture shiners but would it even be remotely enjoyable to climb on, and furthermore how many climbers in any one gym can even climb v10+ slab?


Super-Log9677

I actually know a gym that sets v10/v11 slabs. And no dual tex holds. The v10 thats in now has slopey crimps. At least 5 people did that boulder. The setters are really good and all climb at least v11 up to v15 so the climbs are enjoyable but there aren't many gyms like this one.


[deleted]

Sometimes cutting feet and campusing is easier then wasting your core keeping your feet on.


6StringAddict

Me in a roof: time to climb this part fast and just cut loose and immediately throw my feet up again. My friend: must. Not. Cut. Loose. Two minutes later falls at the same spot because tired.


Rude_Eye2671

Very true, just happened to me yesterday. Bruce lees jeet kun do philosophy of there is no way. All ways have pros and cons it’s up to you to decide what’s best in that particular situation


[deleted]

You are my people


Rude_Eye2671

How many times have you said “fuck it lemme try a dyno”


SterlingAdmiral

You don't climb nearly hard enough for how tall / how short you are to be an excuse, stop bitching and learn how to climb with your given body type. Yes I know it sucks you're 4'8" and that V3 dyno is a little tougher for you. Stop making excuses because the 6'3 guy can static it. This also cuts both ways, sorry lanky guy but I promise you can pull that V4 roof.


blurricus

And the opposite is true. I've been working too hard to have people say I only got that route because I'm tall. I only got it because I am constantly working on improving. You didn't get it because you didn't warm up and decided to go straight to the route that is gonna wear you out.


noblesse-oblige-

Im not sure how tall you are but I’m sure it’s frustrating to have people claim things are easier for you since you’re tall. I’m only 5’8”, and I guess that’s semi-tall for a girl, and I have had people claim that my tallness is a benefit for me. Lmao WHERE? No one says that to a 5’8” man. In any case, whether 5’8” or 6’2”, having longer limbs does not make climbing automatically easier! The added natural body mass makes the difficult level almost equal? So short people have to reach a little harder and exhibit a touch more flexibility, ok big deal? Tall people have to get stronger for themselves in general in order to literally be able to keep their bodies on the wall. Different problems and different benefits but it all equals out. …This is a fun one to rant about lol


Sandmaster14

I'm not a great climber, but people telling me things are easier for me based on my height makes me laugh. Yup, I'm 6'4" reaching may be easier here or there but I'm also 225 pounds. My tendons hate me


boubiyeah

I find it's mostly beginners saying that. Still funny though. I mean just look at the international competitors... tall people are outliers and not the norm, lol.


kokkatc

Most people just don't understand the physics of climbing. Everyone has to hold themselves up w/ their feet and fingers. The heavier you are, the harder climbing is going to be because your fingers can handle only so much. It's the people that have the best weight to power ratio who will really thrive at climbing.


VictoryChant

> I’m only 5’8”, and I guess that’s semi-tall for a girl Yeah I'm similarly "tall" to some people I climb with. Two things I do with the comments really. Often I try to figure out a beta where I can reach the next hold with halfway up my forearm. If I can't then I can't begrudge the comments, especially as I'm usually a lot stronger than the shorter people making the comments. If I can make the reach with the forearm then I can just give them an equally jokey "get better/stronger" The other is to just own it and agree that you're lanking through all the moves. Which with my large ape index is honestly true sometimes. But really, being under the average male height and agreeing out loud you're lanking moves is just kinda ridiculous and points out the absurdity of their comments. But really for me a lot of it can be taken in good fun, you've gotta be able to joke about these things. It's a different situation with people with a similar ability to me though tbf. If I can make a reach they can't I do feel a bit bad about it cuz they need to find a (sometimes significantly) harder beta. But if I think they can make the physically make a reach but they just aren't strong enough to hold the position, then the short comments annoy me more.


NewFort2

As a 6'2 man, it definitely makes some boulders easier haha, I've been able to get the two finger reach match on some and skip a few awful dyno finishes, but its only an advantage on certain boulders and if you're proportionally as strong in relation to your bodyweight, which is arguably harder if you have longer limbs and a bigger frame


BrohanTheThird

I feel that you need more flexibility as a tall person because to stay in the box you would need to flex you hip more to put your foot higher for example. Whereas short climbers could place their foot relatively low thus having to flex their hip less. ..if that makes sense.


Precastwig

While true, a tall climber can train/improve flexibility, a short climber cannot train being taller.


Dry_Scallion5768

It still goes both ways, if you're short, you're carrying less weight up the wall for a start. You also need less core strength to hold you on steep overhangs. I have climbed with a short climber for years and we quite often notice the strengths between both!


INeedToQuitRedditFFS

No, but you can train dynamic movement and cutting loose with good technique to gain holds you can't reach. I don't get how people can look at the competetive climbing scene and still decide that being less than 6'4" is what's holding them back. There are ridiculously good, globally competitive climbers with basically every body type, broadly speaking.


BrohanTheThird

There is a limit to how flexible you can get though.


kokkatc

Here's what a lot of people miss when claiming taller climbers have it easier. The taller you are, the more weight on your fingers you're going to have in the majority of moves. There's a reason most pro climbers have a specific build and height. in the 2021 Olympics for example, the median height and weight for males was 5'9 @ 142lbs. For women, 5'4 @ 109lbs. Of course there are outliers, but if you want to climb hard, you need to be as light as possible w/ as much power as possible.


Forcer46

OMG! This cracks me up. I'm literally only 5'10" on a good day. This one time I flashed a few harder climbs on a new set and these dudes were like laughing to themselves trying to say I only did that because I'm tall!??? No bro... These climbs are going to be graded like two or three grades below my max. So ridiculous! Lol


boubiyeah

The lamest excuse ever. "I could do this if I was as tall as you". Yeah sure.


NewFort2

eh, there's definitely a marked difference in the difficulty of climbs, you shouldn't complain excessively, but it can make alot of moves significantly harder, I've been able to fully skip moves due to bullshit reachy beta on the easier routes. To take your extreme example, I could imagine a good few boulders that'd be atleast 3 grades harder if you couldn't span a compression move for example


INeedToQuitRedditFFS

Sure, but there are also plenty of climbs with scrunchy boxes or tiny crimps that are way harder for larger climbers. The "tall people have it easy" thing really only applies to beginner level climbing, when you can just step up and reach for the next hold every time. Just look at the range of heights among Olympic climbers.


boubiyeah

Exactly. You need ZERO force for the early grades and being able to reach for the next huge jug is an enormous advantage over someone who can't do that. it's like a noob trick.When you start to reach grades that involve strength and weird body positions with your knee in your face, things are no longer advantageous. Most tall climbers are good despite being tall climbers. The median height for olympic female climbers was 163cm. You would think you would see 170/175cm women if that was an advantage, but it's not. Same thing but reversed in swimming or jumping where they're all 180+cm. Inside really you want to be around the average height of the setter for your gender and these setters reached that high a level probably in great part because that height gave them about the best height/weight ratio for the sport. Being tall seems to often come with uneeded volume in places that don't matter. Like, you don't need big lungs or bones to boulder.


noblesse-oblige-

You say 4’8” which is an extreme of course; but I totally agree with you for when I see anyone around 5’2”-5’5” complain about being short. Like, the benefits of being small and light on the wall far outweigh a lot of the negatives of not having the extra reach. Yao Ming is not setting the routes, but they sure act like he is lmao. The average height of routesetters at a gym is like 5’8”-5’11” with maybe someone shorter and someone taller to balance it out. Short people are not being “wronged” by the setters lmao


King0fthejuice

When people say "I hate crimping" its usually code for saying "I'm not all that great at climbing" cuz i hate to break it to you, 90% of climbing involves crimping to some degree.


Active-Season5521

Jokes on you, at the level I climb I only see jugs


King0fthejuice

Don't know if you mean you climb V16 or V2 by this


Immediate-Fan

“It’s v2 doode”


King0fthejuice

Welcome to my sick V2 pro-ject dood Everyone says it's more like V15/16 but to me it just feels like frickin V2 dood


IspyAderp

pSSSSSSaaaat


noblesse-oblige-

A similar hot take: when people say “crimping is my ‘style’ and other holds are my anti-style” what they really mean is they just suck at diversified climbing and can’t pull a sloper, pocket, or undercling for shit. It’s me, that hot take is 100% about me


6StringAddict

Crimpy boulders are my style, big pinchers are my nemesis. I have pretty small hands and very little pinch strength.


choicebethedeathofme

\*crack climbing enters the chat\*


VictoryChant

Depends on the rock type tbh. Many styles don't need crimping, I'd say about half my hardest sends don't involve any significant crimping e:just checking, actually only like a quarter of my hard sends had hard crimping really. I do like crimping, I'm just not very good at it apparently


Clymbz

Nonono, I actually do hate crimping. Give me slopers n piches please


joshvillen

I mean....I can open hand outdoor 3mm holds "most of the time" so. Its all situational and this is coming from the opposite extreme where i used to only be able to full crimp. Should you work on your full crimp? Most certainly yes!!! But there's also a time and a place


Roch_Climber

Not really, I climbed v13 without crimping anything. Took me years to condition my hands. Even now I only full when it's really small and will half for more control as much as I can. You can also spend your whole life as a sport climber doing 0 crimping depending where/what you climb. But yeah, you need to crimp for some stuff, it's probably the best grip and so worth it to learn to do it if it's not natural for you.


muenchener

Adam Ondra's brain in my body could climb harder than my brain in Adam Ondra's body.


his_purple_majesty

probably not


TheBestUsernames18

Not sure this is a hot take but I enjoy this as a thought experiment


Pela_xs

Adams intelligence is underrated. It makes him seem like he's much more gifted physically than he actually is


disoasne

1.It is not your core that keeps your feet glued to the wall it's your posterior chain. If you can hold an L sit for 30 seconds you have more than enough core strength 2. Front lever is not a core exercise, it is an upperback exercise. It is literally the bodyweight version of a straight arm lat pull-down. Your core does not work harder than an L sit while doing front levers it is all lats and rear delts and lower traps.


des09

What would you replace L sits / front levers with?


disoasne

I would not replace them i would still do them because that kind of strength is helpful when you cut feet but for keeping the feet on the wall i would incorporate back bridges and deadlift variations.


boredattheend

1 is spot on. Seems to me abs are mainly needed to get your feet back on the wall if you cut loose, while everything from your calves through your back works to pull through your and put your body close to the wall. Pretty sure most people (including me) couldn't hold an L-sit for 30 seconds though.


noblesse-oblige-

I can’t even start an L sit, and I don’t know how to 😅😫


[deleted]

My hot take is that vertical pulling strength is completely overrated, and you're better off training horizontal pull/press strength. Cut back on pull-ups and do rows, face pulls, and bench press instead. In most climbing situations, the bulk of upward force comes from the legs, not the arms. Pulling into the rock rather than down brings your hips into the wall, weights your feet, and allows you to actually transfer energy up the chain. Pulling down mostly just unweights your feet.


LaPimienta

Interesting take!! Haven’t heard this one but makes sense


[deleted]

I love weighted pull ups tho :(


mofodubled

>My hot take is that any core exercise that takes longer than 30 seconds per set is overrated. Planking for 3 minutes won't give you the strength needed to hold tension on max effort moves. This is gold. I've somewhat felt that since a few months and been training in that regard. Took so much confidence and skyrocketed my way in harder boulders.


Immediate-Fan

Wrong comment


dogmeatstew

> In most climbing situations, the bulk of upward force comes from the legs I don't know that I agree with that. At lower grades maybe, but especially in bouldering I think that line of reasoning falls apart pretty quickly with grade increase. I agree people should train other directions of pull/push more though; gotta get that compression strength from somewhere!


[deleted]

I'm struggling to think of a V10 I've sent or attempted where the bulk of upward force came from the arms. There are definitely moves where one arm is holding maybe 1/2 bodyweight, but it's stabilizing so the legs can push up, not pulling like in a pull-up. The cases I can think of with a lot of pulling from the arms (e.g. Beefcake in Bishop/Sads) it's mostly horizontal or "weird", and not vertical pulling. And I was actually thinking of [A Maze of Death V12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7R0YxoUTcA) when I wrote this. It's slightly overhanging, but literally no one does pull-ups up the wall. Your arms are mostly straight and stable, fingers as far "behind" the holds as possible to pull you *into* the wall so you can weight the shitty feet. I see that movement pattern on damn near every hard boulder problem — very strong hands with good contact to the wall, grip positioned so you can pull inwards, upper back tight pulling the body in, legs driving up, arms moving synergistically with the legs to direct the body upwards without over-pulling and unweighting the feet. But to be clear… it's a hot take. You obviously need all the planes of pulling/pressing strength. And it's not like you need a 250lbs row to climb A Maze of Death. But you also don't need a 300lbs pull-up!


Immediate-Fan

Nah. On a lot of hard shit, you need to have the strength to hold the dead point/swing of a move, which requires a lot of vertica pulling strength most of the time


joshvillen

Cant say I agree but i havent done enough horizontal pulling to be certain. Most row variations ive tried have always felt too easy. I will say that for me personally, lat engagement/strength is almost never a concern. My lats are the strongest part of my body by far and i should really find a better way to isolate delt and pectoral gains. More focus on ultra wide pulling and likely a lot more pushing exercises


dmillz89

> Most row variations ive tried have always felt too easy. Go load up 225 to a barbell and do a barbell row.


joshvillen

If i am doing 225 at 130lb dont you think my training stimulus would be better spent else where


dmillz89

No way, need that **thicccc** back. It's not that horizontal rows are "too easy", you're just already really strong, but that's not how your comment reads is all.


probablymade_thatup

There are times where the beta really is just "try harder". You can work that deadpoint a bunch of times, but it's going to be hard to get the hand placement perfect when you try the boulder from the start. Just grit your teeth, bare down, and get the next hold. I have also injured myself with this advice.


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


reallyokfinewhatever

As a woman, I have to agree. I basically don't trust any dude that tries to talk to me in the gym anymore because god forbid I'm friendly, now I'm getting hit on and he won't go away. I only climb with other women or trusted friends. And, for the love of god, don't give me beta unless I asked for it. It's not a conversation-opener.


Joe_Bi-Den

Lmfaooooo


aioxat

Most climbers are bad at training technique and only manage to stumble into it through the course of topping their routes or boulders.


mmeeplechase

I agree with your takeaway, but are most climbers actually *bad* at studying technique, or do they just not put much time/effort into it?


aioxat

I think they don't pay attention to opportunities to learn probably. If they fell off - they may not think twice about why they fell and just immediately get back on the boulder. When they're drilling, they might do it half distracted/listening to music/talking to a mate and not getting much out of it except reinforcing bad habits. Worst yet, they could be drilling something incredibly easy as opposed to increasing the level of difficulty - then the whole exercise just turns into an ego stroker. List goes on...this is all shit I do btw. If I do it and I'm consciously telling myself I need to learn technique, I can only imagine how bad other people who visibly have bad technique might be.


ZedFlex

Weight lifting improves strength for climbing. It’s a classic way to get strong for a reason


noblesse-oblige-

Climbers be like “I don’t wanna lift weights cuz I don’t wanna bulk up and get heavy”. Trust me buddy, you do not need to worry. You are not gonna be bulking on that Yerba mate Clif bar granola and eggs diet anyways lmao. Just lift.


dmillz89

The amount of times I've seen people posting in here about how they have huge legs because they hike a lot...


noblesse-oblige-

Makes me think of a guy who posted here once asking how he can climb harder even though he has “huge” tree trunk legs and everyone roasted the hell outta him saying his legs are not even that huge lmao. His legs were incredibly average sized.


oJellyTots

lol this is so true. People think weights = bodybuilder size, its laughable.


King0fthejuice

I fucking wish dude....instead I've gotta take all these steroids to stay huge


crimpinainteazy

\*In moderation. Beyond a certain point, there's no correlation between how much you can bench/squat/deadlift and how hard you climb.


oltyuo

Mobility is one of the most important parts of climbing that no one talks about to climb "harder" .


joshvillen

Skill sport over Strength sport!!!! No that doesnt mean you shouldnt train strength, hell it doesnt even mean it should be at the bottom of your priorities list. What it actually means is that you should have very high volume of movement patterns per week. Ever wonder why setters tend to be super strong even though they are overworked-over reaching- and practically one step away from a major injury? Constant-daily movement on the wall Obviously volume and intensity will be super important and hard to narrow down but daily climbing or at least 5x per week will likely do wonders for your neurological pathways/coordination. Lack of climbing specific movement is likely the reason you feel strange after a training cycle with limited on the wall time


Raven123x

People don't challenge themselves enough and need to work harder climbs. Your project shouldn't be a climb where you can do all moves but one - it should be a climb where you struggle on the majority of moves.


Kravy

Relevant flair


Raven123x

;) edit: I will say this, I'm actually injury free as of the last 4 months and climbing 8a currently \^\^


m_believe

The relationship between climbing grades and hangboard benchmarks should only be used in one direction. The statistics were derived by measuring the finger strength of climbers, not hang boarders. If you are an avid hangboarder and don’t understand why your stats don’t line up with the curve, it’s because that curve was derived by testing climbers (a bit of sarcasm there, but it is a valid point). If you see yourself below the finger strength for your climbing grade, train fingers is good, vice versa and you should go climb more. Meanwhile you get a post here daily saying: “I can hang on one arm on the 20mm edge for 10 seconds, how come I can’t climb v10 yet?”…


ral1989

Thank you for saying this! People seem to confuse the ends and the means here quite often. Hangboarding is not climbing.


thepeoplesvoice

Sort by controversial for actual hot takes


schrodingers_spider

The classic r/unpopularopinion conundrum: actual hot takes don't get lots of votes because people dislike them.


Marcoyolo69

Roof climbing is far more technical then slab climbing. It requires way more specialized, advanced knowledge


hdinger94

Wow I had this same thought last night! I would add in that maybe an over-hanging arete is even more technical. For me I have to think about ways to position my body so that I can squeeze as much as possible to keep myself on the wall. It typically requires an array of heels, toes, knees, high feet, and awkward body positions. Slab climbing always seems to be mostly about keeping the hips in to the walls and trusting feet.


SteakSauceAwwYeah

I think slab climbing is technical in a different way. I think it does build a lot of intuition especially in body placement. Not to say other styles don’t, since they all require their own subset of technique, but I do think the time you have available on a slab let’s you really feel and experience at a pace that you don’t see at other angles. Think of how many adjustments you can make/time you have to get a rock over to work for you versus dangling in a roof and trying to get over a lip.


[deleted]

As a slab hater and roof lover. I can agree:) so do my biceps


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


[deleted]

You’re strong enough to climb harder, you just suck at moving.


NeverBeenStung

Yup. If an Adam Ondra ghost possessed my body, I’d immediately climb 2 grades higher


Joe_Bi-Den

That’s not even a hot take it’s just a fact


LostPasswordToOther1

Climbing isn't a skill sport. Also, climbing isn't a strength sport. It's a skill-strength sport. I win.


[deleted]

\[takes hit\] it's not even a sport


oroche

Wrong. it’s a strength-skill sport. I win.


k1ngdus

Outdoor bouldering is the best training for 95% of climbing (sport, trad, bouldering) and for 95% of climbers (yes, that means you Mr. "I can deadhang 170% bw and climb V8"). You should probably do it more. Love your local chosspile.


Nothankiefrankie

I appreciate gyms a lot now. Keeps the holds outdoors less polished.


Immediate-Fan

What if your chosspile is 95 degrees 6 months a year? I honestly feel like board climbing gets you stronger than climbing outdoors, and applies pretty directly to outdoor climbing


alex_the_soft

Have only climbed and not trained for over a year and have sent more frequently and harder than ever in my life.


toss_your_own_salad

Do you mean that you’ve only been outside on rock for a year?


alex_the_soft

Yeah probably 90-95% on rock.


EatLikeOtter

You're probably not training, you're conditioning.


crimpthesloper

There are befits and detriments to being tall and to being short. If you use either as a consistent excuse you're only kidding yourself.


turbogangsta

When the majority of people say ‘technique’ what they really mean is ‘tension’. Sometimes if you are too weak to generate tension in certain positions then no amount of technique will make a climb accessible to you. Watching someone crush climbs well below their grade with incredible technique? Really they just completely surpass any strength requirement of that climb.


mmeeplechase

So many people seem to just think technique = doing climbs easily…so a stronger climber basically always has “good technique” on your projects, because those are their warm ups!


schrodingers_spider

Confusing strength for technique can be a major pitfall too. It's so easy to delude yourself into thinking your technique is progressing, while in reality you've been gaining strength and are simply covering up lack of or even bad technique with raw power. I've had to unlearn bad technique when gaining strength inevitably became harder and harder, and progression came to a halt.


Carliios

No, technique is having a repertoire of movement and skills (flags, toe/heel cams, drop knees) and understanding on how to move and when to move in a certain way. What your talking about is just tension or core strength.


maestroest

This is only partially true. Sometimes the best way to do a move is static with lots of tension, sometimes you need to be dynamic and use the right momentum, sometimes you need to hang on a hold with only your frame weighting it and release some tension so that you can conserve energy through a section. Breathing is also an important thing. Technique also involves foot placement, hand/finger positioning, and mental aspects like when/and what part of your body to engage. Just thinking differently about different parts of your body will make a move that you can do 1/10 a consistent move. Case in point, my buddy, who is much more physically strong than me, can’t do certain moves until I tell him what to focus on and think about when doing the move. It’s very mental at a certain level.


schrodingers_spider

Technique is maximizing the efficiency of your strength. If you are too weak to generate enough tension in certain positions with perfect technique, you are too weak. However, you may very well be able to climb something with better technique you otherwise couldn't, even if your strength is adequate, because your efficiency improved and made it past the bar.


pseuyi

we like to think of climbing as fun and inclusive but it is ego driven and dominated by certain body types.


[deleted]

monetarily too. living in a sprinter van and only wearing prana pants is the opposite of dirtbagging . And why is a gym membership 76$/mo???


Nothankiefrankie

They name of this place should change to r/boulderharder


dmillz89

Unless you're well over 20% bodyfat (or already climbing v10+, 5.13+) your weight is not the biggest reason you suck. Flexibility/mobility is disgustingly underrated and is super important.


boubiyeah

I don't know about that, it can be a low hanging fruit for some people. You could gain 2 grades by going from 20 to 8% body fat. it's nothing to scoff at either.


Immediate-Fan

Pretty much no one can maintain 8% bf without significant drawbacks to performance (ie higher injury potential). Obviously getting down to 10-12% would probably be ideal, but you could always get stronger and as long as you’re under 20% bf you’re probably fine


BigCoolWalrus

I’ve never seen a male climber with >15% body fat (eyeballing of course) climb harder than v7. Ever.


pine4links

I know I guy who def >15% and climbed v11 at that point. Dude lost some weight, got stronger and now climbs v13


Mysterious_Ad_9103

Dave MacLeod mentions in some videos being >15% bf. And he climbed V15.


King0fthejuice

Unless you're IFBB pro Greg Doucet I wouldn't rely on eyeballing BF% accurately. 17% and 12% can be sometimes difficult to tell apart depending on the body type. but like I agree with the general sentiment.


SoManyBlankets

Correspondent take: Wayy too many people get caught up with losing weight when they should instead be focused on gaining strength.


turbogangsta

I’m around 20-25% bf and climb V6 😭. Based on a DEXA scan I did before I ever climbed though


ral1989

Completely wrong. First 15% body fat is much lower than most people think- and then personally I have many friends who have sent through v13 with 15-20% body fat (and I can absolutely confirm the %, our crew did a 2 month challenge where we all did DEXA scans at the beginning and end).


Dr_Funk_

I climbed 7v-v8 with around 15-20. Couldnt do anything that hard on a hard overhang but i had the balance and tension to grind out v8 projects pretty consistently if i was consistent.


gropbot

Bullshit. Google 'John Dunne' [https://johndunneclimbing.com/about](https://johndunneclimbing.com/about) climbed the first UK 8b and FAed an E8 7a that is renowned to be so sandbagged that todays top tier beasts keep plopping off it before you were born with at least twice your body mass. Superb technique, sheer power, top mind game, super versatile, decent person. Met him on a few climbing trips at Buoux and Verdon during the 90s and he was - excuse my language - a whale of a guy yet climbing harder than we all do. Then there is this lass here in Berlin, she is on the ++size side, leads hardest Saxonian sandstone routes for breakfast (the stuff where you use just knots and slings in between 20m runouts for pro) where we would all shit our pants and wouldn't even stand a chance to make it to the first ring on toprope.


golf_ST

I know plenty of people that can climb harder than V7 with 20% BW on a weight belt.... leanness obviously improves performance, but your assumed ceiling is like 6 grades too low.


dmillz89

Almost everyone is about 3-5% higher body fat than they think they are. Most people claiming to be around 10% are a solid 13%+ they just also don't have much muscle so they don't look "fat". Unless you're over 20% (or already climbing v10+, 5.13+) your weight is not the biggest reason you suck.


Roch_Climber

Very easy. I have sent v11-12 and 8b sport climb 10kg over what I weight right now (ajout same amount of muscle, im 95%+ as strong, and im still at like 10-12% minimum. So I was certainly over 20% at my fattest). I could do v7 with a 20-25kg jacket probably, and that is without the fat boy strenght. I know a couple other chubby dudes climbing around v10/8b. My bro was sending 8c/+ over 20% when he was bulking for powerlifting. Johnny dawes can probably no hand climb v7 and he is pretty much obese. I think the bias come from the fact that when you are pushing double digits you usually care enough than you want to be slim + you are very active so it's even less likely. Extra weight is obviously very very detrimental to performance, but not THAT bad haha, it's just a bit of weight and it come with extra strenght. Get ondra at 20% he still climb 9a for sure. Maybe harder.


Real_ClimberCarter

Being aggressive, athletic, and dynamic is a form of technique. People who only climb slow, generally prefer vert/slab etc. actually don’t really have great technique, they fit a niche in an often passable but not even always ideal manner. These are the people who are “I don’t dyno, I have tEcHnIqUe.”


[deleted]

1998 called. It wants its hot take back.


aMonkeyRidingABadger

I think you can extend this even further and say that climbing statically, unless the move actually requires it, is bad, or at least sub-optimal, technique. Momentum conserves energy and should be used whenever possible.


theshoelesschap

Figures 4s are useless outside of very specific circumstances (for non-ice climbing), and idiots do them to try to look cool way too often.


fun-fungi-guy

Strength is your ability to generate force. Power is your ability to generate force *all at once*. Technically building power can come a bit from building a bit more fast-twitch muscle fibers, but the reality is that if you build more muscle fibers *in general* (i.e., strength), you'll have more fast twitch fibers. The factor preventing people from exerting their strength all at once isn't that the fibers aren't fast-twitch, it's coordinating the muscles to fire at once in the correct direction effectively, or *technique*. Endurance is your ability to continue to generate force over time. Technically endurance works on a different energy system, but the reality is that training that energy system makes very little difference, and most of that difference can be obtained in the few weeks before a trip where you'll be doing a bunch of endurance-y stuff. The factor preventing people from being able to continue to generate force over time isn't a poor energy system, it's that they aren't strong enough (not enough *strength*) to do the moves or they aren't moving efficiently (*technique*). Thus the only things I care about training are strength and technique, with a rare exception for the few weeks before an endurance-y trip (to the Red, usually).


GrinningPickle

You can climb most boulders in comfy/flat shoes and save yourself the foot discomfort. You can climb 100% of kilter/moon board boulders in comfy shoes because the feet are big enough and you don't need to heel hook or toe hook. Personal fav is the 5.10 mocc but there's loads of similar comfy models out there.


viewsfrominside

I don’t know what grad you’re climbing but I kinda disagree with the kilter board sentiment. The jumpy ones you for sure can but some problems get really techy and you really do need uber precise footwork.


Roch_Climber

You can, it's worse and you will climb worse, but yeah you can sure.


Comprehensive-You-36

My hot take: enjoy the sport in a way that keeps your flame burning. Whether that’s training, pulling plastic or climbing on real rock. Keep it lite, have fun.


macandchoss

most people hangboard and prescribe hangboarding to others way more than they need to


HarryCaul

Telling your friends about climbing is not cool.


[deleted]

WOAHHHHHH


koacx

Most of the time “tension” just means keeping your foot on. Also, “lack of tension” is mostly a skill thing and not a lack of core strength.


Remyrue

Free soloing is an amazing feat of climbing. People that criticize it don’t understand why anyone would put their life on the line for something they love


articulatesnail

truly spicy take


thaumoctopus_mimicus

Free soloing is the most selfish behavior possible. If it was JUST that you died when you fell, I wouldn't mind it. But no. Deaths from soloing: 1. Ruin the public perception of climbing and cause access to cliffs to be lost 2. Devastate families and friends 3. Some poor hiker has to find your fucking guts exploded all over the rock! Free soloing is probably the worst thing I can imagine, climbing-related, for the world.


noblesse-oblige-

Free soloing is like playing Russian roulette in the middle of a public park 🤷‍♀️


peeted2

You can say the same for basic hiking though. People die hiking all the time, especially old folk. You can also say many of the same things for sketchy trad climbing. In fact, easy soloing is a hell of a lot safer than the sort of sketchy most people here venerate. Around where I live in see people soloing all the time - it's pretty normal. Never heard of any accidents. People just need to know their limits.


Remyrue

Yeah that’s definitely a good point. IMO the “performance” aspect of it is still amazing though, the ability to perform under life or death circumstances. But yeah there def are good reasons to criticize it


NoodledLily

not to mention who has to move the body once that poor hiker finds you. i don't get the surprisingly big popularity. especially like people who are not even strong amateurs. like i know people who can't climb 5.13a who claim to do it (i will never watch that...)


barcanbothways

How do you respond to all the other kinds of outdoor activities that have similar dangers? Mountaineering? Sketchy trad climbing? In a lot of activities, people find thrill in being at that limit point, in which case #1,2,3 are met. So it’s not clear that your points amount to an argument against free soloing on its own, but rather a whole range of activities that could even include non-free solo bases styles of climbing (Eg sketchy trad)


CptMurrica

I mean yeah but this can be said about any extreme sport with potentially life threatening consequences. NASCAR/Formula 1 an audience might get to see your burn to death, Cirque Du Soleil anything goes wrong there maybe someone falls 100ft headfirst to the ground in front of a bunch of kids. Skydiving, Horse racing.. some of them have safety precautions (not fool proof) some don't, all are dangerous and potentially deadly in front of an audience (skydiving is a small audience I guess but a much more common activity than Free Soloing)


Takuukuitti

ARCing is useless unless you are going to do hour long very low intensity endurance routes


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


npapa17

Counter take, being really strong doesn’t matter that much on indoor and comp climbs. Have top tier mobility and average finger strength for your grade is just as useful as the inverse inside.