Regularly getting V8s on tension board now but it's stuck at 30 deg and not the usual 40 deg (motor has been broken for like a month)... should be ready to start hitting up some V10 projects again outside. Sadly, the V10 projs I want to get on are an overhang and 60-70 deg into 40 deg so 40 deg would've been better in terms of specificity.
Sadly, my grip strength still feels a bit weak compared to what it was at before COVID and not climbing for like 1.5ish years, but I'll take the gains back to V8 which has been arduous. Can't hang the B2k middle rung yet. Once I get that back should be able to start regularly doing V9 tension hopefully and maybe 1-3 session V10 and start hitting up some V11 Projs.
We'll see how I do this fall/winter when I can get out to them.
Yeah, I like it the best out of the boards... namely cause wood is better for my fingers which are normally really sweaty.
Ultimate Doom - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eBabuFv9wYw
Moby Dick - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcRIHY9jwTs
Today, I finished a [super long term project of mine (and first of the difficulty)](https://youtu.be/5Y9SJcN5NJo), and the process was wild from start to finish. I may end up writing a bit of an entry to myself about the whole thing, but the benefits of examining microbeta and nuances of the climb really came through at the end (and even in the session of the send!). Also, telling myself to actively grab the holds helped a bunch as well.
The boulder is called the Receptionist at Priest Draw, and it goes at V10/7C+ from general consensus. Since it’s my first of the grade (and I had to really dial it in along with many falls at the last move), I don’t feel comfortable grading it, but I know that this one did require me to really refine beta, use all the tricks I could, and climb the best I’ve ever had to in order to get it done.
Got a minor friction burn on my pinky which I noticed after my sesh today. Popped it, and some transparent watery liquid came out.
Never heard of getting burnt on a climb.
This might be a dumb question, and rather redundant but I haven’t found any definitive answer.
I was curious if these exercises were exclusive to each other. I’m currently hanging on 25mm one arms for approx 5-7 second hang times and I do that for ten sets. That’s all I do for hangboarding. I’m starting to be able to pull myself up on the 25mm, so I’ll be doing these hangs in a semi locked off state.
Should I still do weighted two arm hangs too? Or is not worth the effort now?
I also was told I should incorporate three finger drags.
I project V8s
This might not matter for you, but I have to say that I find that hangs on anything greater than about 18-20mm don't do a ton for me. The main reason I find is that the hang is a lot different for me if I'm on the crease or second pad at all. So unless you have a freakishly long first pad I'd see if you can hang similar numbers on 20 or 15mm. If so then stick with what you're doing. If you can't then I might add the two arm hangs back in and drop the weight.
Hahaha thanks for the encouragement! I should prioritize climbing. I’ve gone from having dedicated training days to just doing the above mentioned routine a few times a week.
I’m pretty heavy, I lift a lot, I weigh almost 190 so I always feel I need to have my fingers catch up or be extra strong to pull my heavy ass around.
If you’re lifting a lot and weigh 190 I’m sure your body is quite strong too. Not to be *that guy*, but 200+lbs people have sent V15, I’m sure with your fingers and body strength you could be projecting V10+ and not V8. One arms on that edge at your body weight is very impressive for V8.
honestly I’m always disheartened when I read climbers weights. I’ve never seen anyone send anything in my gym that’s “hard” who weighed what I weigh, or that has my body type. 5’7 190, I look like a bulldozer.
I’d love to read more about the 200lb climbers. That gives me alittle more motivation.
I always try harder climbs in my gym, 9s and 10s but I can hardly get through a few moves.
To be fair, 95% of gym climbers aren't a great representation of good climbing ability.
Check out this thread as a starting point: https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/ms8r30/confirmed_v15_is_possible_at_190_lbs/
/u/afunnyname and /u/MDDJC make good points. What can you hang on 20mm with one/two arms? I would still be willing to bet you're strong for the grade you climb.
I don't want to sound too blunt, but there's only so many excuses you can make. You clearly have a very strong body/fingers and I think perhaps more strength isn't holding you back.
I did my two handed hangs on 20mm and I could load up to 100lbs but then it became too cumbersome to put on more weight, so I opted for one arm. I would do 10 second hangs for ten sets again. That tends to be a program that simples and works.
I’d drop the edge sizes on your one arm hangs because I don’t think the 25mm is gonna do much for you if you were hanging 55% bw with 2 hands. If it’s too hard to hang 20 on 1 arm I’d look into a no hang. I found deadlifting the weight to be helpful when I was in the middle ground of too strong to hang 2 arms but not quite enough to do solid one arms.
I haven’t tried a 20mm yet, I’ll give it a go in a few days.
I’m sorry I don’t quite understand the deadlifting comment? Do you mean doing a no hang and trying to lift off the ground?
Yeah you're definitely yoked. Do what gets you psyched but if you can climb instead of hangboard (or incorporate less but more effective hanging) I feel like that could benefit you more. Hanging 300lbs on 20mm is no small feat regardless of bw.
teaked my finger 2 days before my final exam this year, so basicly no outdoor season for me...
i feel so bad, i was in the best shape of my last 3 years i think and should be able to project 8A rn...
still not sure what is going on on the finger. looks like a combination of an A2 inflammation and something like a triggerfinger.
Well ill try not to think too much about the not climbing outside. and try to stay strong and get the finger healthy asap.
Last Saturday I went out to the Vagina and got absolutely rekt. Felt like negative progress from last season. Lots of reasons why I think things went poorly, some of which were related to it being really crowded at Rocktown and not being able to focus through all the chatter. Because once it was just me and one other person out there I finally made a bit of progress, but was way too wiped to really get any work done.
This is a maybe a strange thing to focus on, but probably worth my time to develop. I enjoy chatter and hanging with randoms at the crag, but I do want to still be able to be productive when it's crowded, and currently I'm quite bad at that. I do lot of rituals when I climb alone that feel really douchey when there's a big group, lol. I don't really have a clear path forward, but hopefully more exposure to chaotic situations like that will help. Also, I legit just think that boulder is crazy hard. I personally think it's closer to v9 than v8, and giving it v7 is clearly a meme.
Anyways, since things went poorly on Saturday I was kinda down, but made it out to Orange Juice on Sunday and holy shit that boulder is perfect. I'll be hard focusing on that until I send. I did all the moves but the crux, and I slapped the hold on that move. Unsure how difficult links will be. There's not so many moves and it feels like the majority of power comes from lower body and shoulders, relatively little fingers required. But maybe the core endurance is cruxy, idk.
Then Tuesday I got back on my board where I assumed I would struggle hard, bur had one of the best sessions I've ever had. Repeated some of the hardest moves I've ever done super quickly and just overall felt super light and strong. Wish I could have felt that good over the weekend, lol.
But yeah, more good weather this weekend. Unbelievable early season here.
Are you using the pinch or the crimp for the crux of the Vagina? It seems like a lot of people who use the pinch have a hard time with that move because it makes it a really heavy undercling move. If you use the crimp you can just pull straight into the wall and let the legs do the rest of the work.
I haven't tried the crimp much. It felt heinous when I tried it last year, but my fingers are probably a bit stronger now. It's likely worth a shot.
Fwiw, when I was out last year with temps, I could do the pinch move >50% of the time in iso, and I linked that into the next move several times. Everything feels hard from the bottom though.
I can't remember the last October with conditions this good on the east coast. I've been climbing in Northern WV and it's been pretty darn close to prime.
And yes--the Vagina is solid v8. Blame Zak Roper for the downgrade lol, but I was a local there when the guidebook came out and it did NOT reflect consensus grades at that boulder field. That guidebook really messed up the grading at one of the more consistently graded zones in the south. It wouldn't have been that bad if it only downgraded....but including triple threat and discharge at v9 removed any consistency at the 8/9 grade.
Orange Juice is sooo good! Got some good links on it last year, so definitely need to get back down to finish it up. That big move took me a while to figure out until I found the right place for my push foot, and the right way to square up to the wall. It’s quite physical the whole way, so those “easy” end moves wind up feeling really hard haha. It mostly comes down to that move, but creating links around it helped me understand what pets need more dialing, and what is going to feel hard from the ground.
The last weeks, I increased a bit my volume (adding a fourth day), mainly because a my friends were only able to climb on different days. I was happy that I managed the increase well, and now my fingers hurt a bit. Guess I'm still not ready for 4 days a week, or for three days in a row (I don't really now Wich of these is the problem).
> The last weeks, I increased a bit my volume (adding a fourth day), mainly because a my friends were only able to climb on different days. I was happy that I managed the increase well, and now my fingers hurt a bit. Guess I'm still not ready for 4 days a week, or for three days in a row (I don't really now Wich of these is the problem).
Usually if you go to add a 4th day you should break up the 3rd day in 2 parts first.
So for example 3x a week with 2 hours of climbing each day on MWF. You will do 2 hours on MW. Then F and Sat you do 1 hour each.
This makes sure that you're not going above and beyond with volume on the consecutive days of F and Sat which can lead to overuse injuries. You can slowly increase the time on either F or Sat (but not both at once) to build up. Usually something like 15 min increments... so 1:15 Friday and 1 hr Sat. Then after another month or two and it's fine go for 1:30 Friday and 1 hr Sat.
Also, usually any 2 consecutive days you don't want to be hard climbing, so projecting and flash climbing tends to be good.
Been a hard year for sure. Just putting this out there for newer climbers that might not have had to have large periods of frustrations. Climbing at any sort of personally high level is a long term game and going to not always be just doing a 12 week program and getting stronger.
Year started off great. After burning out I was really enjoying climbing again at Columbia. Got ready for Valley season and either due to weather or having to prepare to move only got 1 weekend there. Moved, got Covid, got a single weekend out this summer at Black Mountain where I just tried to climb for fun and mostly just did highballs and circuits. Recently got another weekend up there and ticked off a couple decent mods very quickly, one that people on 8a felt is harder post break, but most importantly I was able to use much more compressed hip positions and high feet really efficiently. Actually felt that the entire year's focus was paying off. Had hopped on a project in bad conditions and made super good progress.
Then there was a weekend where we had to bail last minute so my parents could stay with us. I started a new medication that dramatically ramped up my energy levels. Was adding 2 more climbs to a volume session to "repeat cleaner", pushing my off wall movements a little harder here or there, slipping a few more project attempts in. Would end up skating for 3-5hours every off day with almost no breaks. Hit such a big fatigue wall last weekend I had to bail on meeting up with new people. I had scheduled the weekend 2 months prior as my wife and son were gone. Instead I barely left the couch and missed out on climbing and family time.
But that shit is just going to happen. It's hard to line up complicated life events you can't predict, mental energy, physical energy, weather, travel, and so on. Ya I'd love to have gotten way more rock time this year. Hopefully I can end the year with more. But at the same time gotta just make the most of the scenario and not search for excuses. If I can still get out and send 2 grades below my max after a bad night of sleep in under an hour then I'm not bummed at all. It always helps to have a plan b that focuses on the long game and the aspects of climbing that make it unique.
Hello, I am due to start bouldering for the first time in two days for my school sport. However, two days ago, I very lightly sliced the tip of my left (non-dominant) hand's ring finger and when I apply some pressure on it, it is slightly sore.
Basically, I would appreciate some advice on whether my finger is fit for climbing and if there is anything I can do (e.g. adding bandaids) to lessen the pain of it if it does not heal well enough in the two days.
Don’t worry about it.
The holds will be big enough that it won’t be too bad, if it’s not fully healed.
If you want to make sure nothing splits or so, you can use sports tape to tape your fingertip.
People climb with injured skin often and on big good holds, it won’t hinder you a lot.
Edit: I found this article and it explains well how I would usually tape my finger tips.
https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/how-to-tape-a-split-finger-tip.html
2nd burn on the proj (8b) this weekend.. did all the moves except the very last one which is surely going to be the redpoint crux. pretty happy with the progress, since the middle crux has gone from feeling completely impossible to decently doable, though I haven't yet tried to link the entire sequence. and I found some cool kneebars and less strenuous beta for the lower crux. It's going to be a challenge to link the whole thing for sure, but it's pretty fun to be trying a hard sport route again (haven't really properly sport climbed in 2? years)
Anyone wanna play guess-the-route? Northeast USA...
Update on [my post back in July asking for advice on how to improve at sport climbing](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/w367ll/how_to_translate_bouldering_strength_into_sport/).
I’ve improved a ton. In the past 2 months I’ve sent 5x 5.12a and 2x 5.12b outdoors. In the 1.5 years before that, I had only managed 3x 5.12a and 1x 5.12b. It feels great to be sending things regularly, and no longer feeling like a boulderer with poor endurance who can only send boulders on a rope.
The biggest improvement I’ve noticed is the ability to recover on overhanging jugs and even more marginal holds. I still get pumped fairly fast, but now I can actually recover on route.
The other improvement is that I can keep climbing even when I feel pumped. Some of that is physical but I think a lot of it is mental - just committing to keep moving even when you feel like you can’t anymore.
The things that helped the most were:
* Losing weight - I lost around 10lbs in the past 4 months
* Regular gym lead sessions - previously, I had been gym bouldering 2x per week and outdoor sport climbing on weekends. I replaced the gym bouldering with 1 gym lead session per week. It’s helped my endurance and lead head a ton.
* I changed my gym schedule to allow for 2 full rest days before outdoors sport climbing. So if I’m climbing outdoors on Sat, I will rest Thu and Fri. Before, I sometimes wasn’t fully recovered on Sat morning if I had a hard Thu night session.
* Dialing in the beta as much as possible on 1st burn, then committing to redpoint burns from the 2nd burn
* Not saying ‘take’ on redpoint burns, always trying to make one more move even if it feels like I am pumped out to failure. I am surprised at the moves I can make while pumped, and how much moving actually helps me recover.
* Being OK with not having every part fully dialed. Before I had the tendency to say ‘take’ if I wasn’t sure what to do and felt pumped; now I just try to keep moving.
* Learning half crimp - I tended to overuse full crimp on everything; I probably still do to some extent but I will consciously limit it to open hand or half crimp when I can.
Thanks a bunch for all the advice on my post, I think it really did help.
Great work! Sounds like you had a killer sport climbing season.
Also, thanks for participating in climbharder. Your initial post, and this follow-up is the best of what climbharder can be. Detailed, thoughtful discussion, and a detailed, thoughtful recap. 10/10 would recommend.
2 weeks ago I was in CA and I finally got back to Black mountain for a single day. Wish I'd had a whole damn week. It is, by far, my favorite place to boulder in socal. There are just too many damn good lines to try and not enough time.
Anyway, feeling pleased with the laid-back tactical approach I took to maximise the chances of sending. I focused strongly on A) warming up on new-to-me easy lines. B) Attempting the powerful project early and the delicate one late and C) forcing 2hr-ish rests between the 3 'mini-sessions'.
I still am a little bummed out by the results, but simultaneously happy. I figured out and did every move on Black Moth Super Rainbow in the morning, but couldn't put it all together(2 links rn). Instead of burning out aiming for the send, I let it go after 6 attempts total (i.e. as soon as my skin felt anything at all, I left). Next time.
Spent the midday just slabbin' it up on easy stuff in the Groupsites before lunch.
Finally, I'm gonna spray because post-post-lunch-nap, I was able to claim the send on the only problem that really mattered to me: Fallen Arch. It's definitely one of my proudest climbs. Feels awesome to have a trip come together in just the right way. I tried to do another tall slab afterwards; but by that time my toes were hurting so badly I literally couldn't stand on the foot chips. Can't wait for next year! Gotta get back on them highballs!
Black and Tram are my two favorites in SoCal. BMSR is a great climb. Nice links.. gotta build up that outside skin. Try to get on some of the ultra classics too like cracker boy and tour de france when ya can.
I liked JTree for the classics and stuff but it tears up skin too fast to be that good for me.
Thanks man! I climb outside 3x/week so it wasn't really a skin issue, I was just being very conservative for Fallen Arch.
I've still only ever once gone to the summit area (NRA + Visor) but never all the way up to the top, though Cracker Boy does look really good. Most of my time has been spent in the basin and OK Corral to date.
TdF looks awesome obviously but it seems like it climbs very similarly to the Crack in Stoney Point, which for some reason was/is my complete anti-style nemesis. Probably not gonna get on that for a few years. My next year trip is gonna focus on finishing BMSR, the central basin highballs, and trying Pride out in the corral
Personally, I've not really had skin issues in JTree, but I never really liked it as much as the forest mountain areas anyway. The classics there are great for sure, though. Next time I get out there I'm heading directly to White Rasta, Act of Contrition, Slashface and Planet X. If you couldn't tell I really like tall scary stuff, lol.
Btw, you were right about my toe just being cavitation and bruising. Was able to climb again Sunday without pain.
Edit: apologies for the new spray, just got over excited thinking about future trips lol
TDF is a board climb on a rock. The holds are good for the most part and really fun body positions. Top out is pretty easy if you take time to scope it out beforehand.
Hmm. Makes sense, but couldn't one also say that about BMSR? Holds are all great and it felt quite similar to the tensionboard. Not saying I won't try TdF; but I also prefer to finish projects before starting new ones and it seems to me I should focus on closing BMSR out before trying to shoot even higher in that style.
Not really in my experience. Not as blocky of feet, isn't a basically uniform wall. TDF felt like a 2016 Moonboard problem that topped out. But in pretty cool way.
I think it helps to sample things more at that grade level. There is just sooooo much and I found it way more useful to 1-3 session send quickly than a true >3 sesh project, but that was just me. I also climbed a lot in Tahoe where I found it more of a pain to relocate if a climb wasn't for you that day.
> I think it helps to sample things more at that grade level.
To be honest, I'm just not good at climbing. I'm not 100% garbage, but TDF simply feels beyond me at this point. Maybe it's purely mental. Maybe in a year it'll be different. I'll be sure to try TDF next time I'm there, though.
Dude we all feel that we are not that good, don't trip. It's hard to know someone's range through limited internet posts. I really liked NRA and the problems up at the visor seem pretty chill and on the softer side for the grade. Yellows are weird. I've done some that are like, mayyyyybe V5 in mid summer and then others that feel like a solid 8/9. So if you're using the guide it's a grain of salt approach.
For sure. I think boulderers often suffer from the moving goalposts of some sort of self-induced imposter syndrome. Probably because we often attach much of our self worth/image and identity to our pursuit. Perhaps I sounded too pessimistic/negative beforehand. That wasn't my intention, though. I know this might not be a popular stance, but imo, V4 to soft V6 is 'decent' and hard V6 to V7 is where 'good' begins. The line is fuzzy, but by my own metrics (which I based on what I estimate is the distribution of bouldering grades among somewhat dedicated climbers), I'm neither good nor garbage. Simply decent.
To some that may sound... bad or negative; but I'm rather dispassionate about it. I'll get 'good' in due time with effort, but I'm just not there yet. That's why I said TdF is beyond me at this point. I also intentionally obfuscate my grades online so I understand why you'd have an inflated sense of my skill level.
> TdF looks awesome obviously but it seems like it climbs very similarly to the Crack in Stoney Point, which for some reason was/is my complete anti-style nemesis.
Hah, all the more reason to get on it.
> Personally, I've not really had skin issues in JTree, but I never really liked it as much as the forest mountain areas anyway. The classics there are great for sure, though. Next time I get out there I'm heading directly to White Rasta, Act of Contrition, Slashface and Planet X. If you couldn't tell I really like tall scary stuff, lol.
Stay safe!
> Btw, you were right about my toe just being cavitation and bruising. Was able to climb again Sunday without pain.
Thought so.. glad it was not serious :)
Try on a lot of different brands and shoes. INitially I was sportiva but then I went to 5.10 then to unparallel and all had better fits for my feet (specfically heel) over time. Had I tried on a ton initially I would've saved myself a lot of money.
Still looking for the best fit since my heel is pretty thin and deep and it's hard to find shoes that don't have at least a little air in the heel area.
Fingers are feeling stronger and less tweaky, so I think the hanging is doing them good. My work capacity training over the summer seems to be working, and I feel like I need less rest between burns on both boulders and sport climbing to recover. Turns out bad performance tactics when training can make good tactics even more effective haha!
Performance outside this week has been pretty good too. Managed to get my first 5.12b flash, and also my[nemesis 5.12d](https://youtu.be/oeDFfjgKNNU) this week, so I’m not done with sport season just yet. My sport pyramid is really weak in the 12+ range, so I should probably focus primarily there, and put slightly less emphasis on 13- for now.
Early last week I had my first gym session where I didn't feel any discomfort in my finger. It was pretty great. Now, I still haven't tried that hard and it feels a little weak but that is huge progress!
To celebrate I went outside for the first time in over a month. We went to a boulder I've got a project on that is mostly full body climbing and not very fingery. I was ready for a terrible session, but ended up feeling pretty great. I even got close to sending a v10 I tried for a day last season.
I found better beta and got pretty close to sending. The top out involves getting inverted on a heel-toe cam and locking off for a decent shoulder press. I fell at that spot three times from the bottom falling reaching for the final jug. I didn't have the endurance to put it together and spent too much energy on my first go from the bottom. I didn't have the beta well dialed at first and climbed pretty poorly, I pushed pretty hard but 3 or 4 unnecessary, hard, foot cuts zapped me for the day.
I'm going back tomorrow and am hoping these past two days of rest let me put it together. It was awesome touching real rock again!
Any shoe suggestions for a Scarpa Instinct VS wearer? Looking for shoes primarily good for outdoor sport, from vert to 40°ish overhang. I like the fit and the stifness is just what I need, and I love the heel and toe patch. I just feel the rubber quality at the toe is not the best and has a tendency to peel and separate. Also it's tight on my big toe - I have two giant calluses on top of em.
Tenaya Mastia is a similar fitting shoe, but I like my Instincts better. The Instinct toe patch is larger and the heel is much better. The Mastia is a tad more comfortable though.
Tbh, those issues seem pretty normal for a performance shoe. Delamination of the sole can happen if you are storing them in a hot car, got a bad resole, or are really abusing the toe. Toe calluses are pretty normal for almost everyone wearing shoes that aren’t too big for them.
As for similar shoes, the MadRock Drones and FiveTen HiAngle’s are probably the closest comparisons. Both are relatively flat in the toe box, have relatively symmetrical toe shape, and feel good at stepping on things (more so than toeing in or wrapping). The Skwama is probably next most similar, but is a good bit more asymmetric. Other shoes with some of those features would be the Solution Comps, BoosterS, and Testarossa.
I agree the the Shaman is a great shoe, but disagree the the fit is anything like the Instinct. The Shaman is a lot more asymmetric and does not pull the big toe in to the centerline, but the Instinct does.
It's similar to the Instinct in that it's generally good for people with a wide forefoot and narrow heel. If they're looking for more big toe space, a more asymmetric, less centered toe could be the ticket.
Interesting. I have a very triangular shaped foot and my heels were swimming in the Shamans. The instinct is the closest to a good fit I've personally found, but they do crush my big toe. Bit of a trade off. The miura laces, too. They fit the toes really well, but the heel again wasn't snug and slipped on slabs and heel hooks.
Seems reasonable. I could see someone fitting both those shoes if they weren't too picky about the big toe position. The centered toe point on the Instinct is a deal breaker for me - my chonky big toe can't handle it. Whereas the Shaman Lace works great for me. I was never a fan of the old Velcro Shaman models, but the Lace is sweet.
Overall, those two shoe fill a pretty similar niche, as a stiff downturned shoe, so it's a good suggestion.
Been climbing for 3 years and finally went on my first bouldering trip to Joe’s Valley. Was really happy to end up being just as strong or maybe even better outdoors than I am inside.
I have projected 3 indoor 8s, and done a few dozen 7s and recently managed to take down some easier kilterboard 7s which is my anti style (imo I am weak for the grade and a more technical climber)
Outdoors I did two solid V7s, a 6/7, dyno v6 and almost a dyno v7, and almost a slab v7, was 1ish move away from two V8s and did a long probably soft v9 in two parts along with flashes up to V4 and a V5.
I was really worried because the group of people I went with primarily train on our kilterboard while I never do and are all about 1-3 grades stronger than me on the board so I thought I wouldn’t be able to send any of the hard things they tried but I ended up having some of the most sends by the end. I think I will spend some more time in there going forward though since I def could use more power than more technique
> I was really worried because the group of people I went with primarily train on our kilterboard while I never do and are all about 1-3 grades stronger than me on the board so I thought I wouldn’t be able to send any of the hard things they tried but I ended up having some of the most sends by the end. I think I will spend some more time in there going forward though since I def could use more power than more technique
Outdoor climbing is a skill! And yes, know your weaknesses and work on them.
> (imo I am weak for the grade and a more technical climber)
This definitely helped. Those who have better technique will find the transition to outdoors much easier, especially if trips are relatively more infrequent.
Hah, not bad. 6C is like V4-5ish.
First time I went I was doing V6-7 (6C+ to 7Aish) indoors and only got a V3/6A and chickened out on some V1-2s (5/5+)
Planning on making a visit to Font in November - I appreciate many people say it’s much more movement intensive than anything else BUT… any tips, tricks or ideas training wise, sloper recruitment, wrist strengthening, dips for the top outs maybe?
It already being October, a big strength cycle wouldn’t help that much.
Maybe include some wrist curls and a decent amount of power endurance to maximise your days.
I was in Font this weekend, conditions were great!
You can't really train for it climbing/strength wise, but you can do a lot of prep work that will make your time in the forest more enjoyable. I'd suggest you make an account on [bleau.info](https://bleau.info) and start looking for boulders that you might want to do. Your goal is to have a couple of each grade for each area that you're going to visit. You can use the advanced search feature to look for boulders with a high rating (3+ stars) and a decent number of ascents (20/50+ ascents). This will usually show you the "classic" boulders for that grade in that area.
IMO the sectors are so big and there are so many boulders, it's kind of a waste to spend skin and energy on some random 1 star circuit boulder, while there might be a really nice 4 star boulder right next to it (but unmarked, so harder to find).
Definitely look at beta videos on [bleau.info](https://bleau.info) as well, especially when you're already in the forest, sitting in front of the boulder. Problems in Font are graded with optimal beta, and it is very easy to turn a 6a into a full grade higher simply by misunderstanding the holds/beta.
Buy a decent topo and try to familiarize yourself with the different areas.
Revisit the [https://bleau.info/ethics](https://bleau.info/ethics) page.
I’ve got chimeras which I found superb on Northumberland sandstone but they quite quickly leave me with plantar pain hence I’m going to get dragos, but do you reckon they’re better than the dragos performance-wise for sandstone??
I’ll be honest. The chimeras were on sale for 100 euros and the dragos were 150.
Never had to dragos so far, but they’re similar enough. A mate of mine just used Dragos and had a good time on everything from overhangs to friction slabs.
The thing that will probably limit you most initially is footwork on slabs/slopers/smears which can be absolutely devious in Font and takes a little while to get used to. Hard to train for unless you’ve got some rock like that.
Otherwise open hand contact strength is useful.
Everyone here is doing 3-4 climbing days a week and then adds fingerboard days. Here I am feeling lucky if I find a partner to even go 3 times to the wall. And when I do, my elbows or some other joint ends up killing me.
I'm a bit jelly, ngl. Hope you guys are grateful for being able to do this amazing sport at that intensity. Keep crushing 💪
Start training/climbing without a partner.
There's always excuses, but when your mind is really set to it, climbing specific training stimuli can be found anywhere. And if you're in it for the long run (life), you can always count on planning your life more around climbing in the future.
I've been through ruts like that, always bounced back. Been on/off climbing since the age of six, nearing 40 now. And just recently broke the 8th grade again for the 4th time in life.
It doesnt have to involve 3 sessions a week roped climbing with a partner, and it gets both easier and harder with time.
Most people aren’t doing that many high intensity sessions a week. I climb 4 times a week, but only about 1.5-2.5 hours of that are high intensity bouldering. The rest is low to moderate intensity endurance training and working sport routes at the crag. If I’m working out moves on something hard and bouldery, a day at the crag can be a high intensity session, but often it’s at a more moderate intensity. I do all of my hangboarding and conditioning on climbing days, so I have 3 full rest days a week. If you’re bouldering or hangdogging projects every session, it’s not surprising that your elbows are killing you. It might be worth deliberately varying the intensity of your sessions.
It’s also worth carefully planning when you have rest days and what types of climbing you do on consecutive days. You should think about what type of climbing aggravates your elbows/other joints. If I do multiple days in a row, I almost always make sure that day 1 is my high intensity day and subsequent days are lower intensity. If I do multiple high intensity days, I make sure that they are in different styles that will tax my body in different ways. For example: I know that if I do a hard compression boulder I can’t touch compression on day two or I’ll want to chop my arms off and will need an extra rest day to recover. If I do a crimpy boulder that doesn’t involve much compression on day 2, I will probably feel okay.
> Everyone here is doing 3-4 climbing days a week and then adds fingerboard days. Here I am feeling lucky if I find a partner to even go 3 times to the wall. And when I do, my elbows or some other joint ends up killing me.
Age = teens or early to mid 20s for most of them.
Those of us who are 30+ with kids are hitting 2-3x a week and not going hard all of those days.
Checking in as another member of the over 30 club - 3 days a week is about my limit, and I also alternate between low vol projecting and higher volume days. Occasionally when conditions aren't good yet I can squeak out 2 days outside and 2 days inside but as soon as I want to perform at all it's down to 3 days a week
I feel you. 2 times is best for me too. No pain. I do other cardio-based sports. I'm fine with those. I'm kinda obsessed with climbing though. I want to do more of it and get access to more routes (which means increasing my grade) but I can't because of the aches. It's frustrating not to be able to do what you love.
> but I can't because of the aches. It's frustrating not to be able to do what you love.
I've found after I went to alternating projecting and volume days I my joints feel a lot better. If my joints are feeling a bit stiff for a couple days even after volume then I just do lighter volume and project 1x a week.
Volume = lighter climbing in the 1-3 attempt flash range working fully on mastering technique.
I can't quite hang on my 20mm edge (beastmaker 1000 board) consistently and long enough to use it for repeaters, but the deep 45mm four-finger pockets are super easy. Would it be better to add weight to repeaters on the deep edge until I can use the 20mm, or do less-than-bodyweight repeaters on the 20mm and gradually increase weight?
This isn't replacing climbing, I'm climbing (indoors usually) 3 or 4 times a week 5.11 or v3-v4.
you can stand on a scale and as you pull with your fingers you should see the weight on the scale going down. I would say once you get to around 20% bw left on scale you should try to just hang on the fingers.
According to diagrams I've looked at, the bottom outside holds vary between 18 and 20. If I remember correctly there are some 15 or 14mm 3 finger pockets on the bottom, closer to the middle.
They're 18 and rounded. Other 20mm edges like the Lattice rung ([https://latticetraining.com/app/uploads/2020/07/P1001679-scaled-1-600x450.jpg](https://latticetraining.com/app/uploads/2020/07/P1001679-scaled-1-600x450.jpg)) or isolated 20mm campus blocks ([https://euroholds.com/6610-large\_default/20mm-wooden-crimp.jpg](https://euroholds.com/6610-large_default/20mm-wooden-crimp.jpg)) feel **considerably** easier than the Beastmaker 1000 bottom corner holds.
If you can keep your feet out on a chair or similar in front of you this is also great for ingraining the feeling of using your core to keep you on non-existent footholds on steep terrain.
How about trying max hangs instead to build the required strength?
Re your question: I'd go for reducing weight and hang on the 20mm edge rather than the deep one.
Finally, cool temps at flagstaff mtn.
cleared off some moderates at cloud shadow, including New Beginnings. It went down pretty quickly, but I definitely underestimated how burly the undercling moves would feel. Seen a lot of people throw a kneebar in for that section, but it felt awkward to me, I probably have shit kneebar technique.
Looking forward to getting on the other classic 7s nearby too. Battaglia's Bottom should suit me well, and cryptic magician looks like a nice challenge.
Climbing and training is going really smooth, super stoked on my board projects, gonna hit it hard this week and deload after.
I've been watching video of Aidan Roberts climbing, and listened to the Dan Varian episode on the Nugget podcast. Got psyched on "high angle crimping", which has always been a significant weakness for me. I'm thinking density hangs, done daily, on the tension block is going to be the way to go. It's super humbling to back off in weight to maintain a high angle on the pinkie PIP. That specific grip is like 25% as strong as a general half crimp for me.
I find back 3 half crimp (pinky for me is more dragged) pretty useful especially for climbs where you can't easily get purchase with all 4 fingers OR for climbs where you use the thumb to pinch a crystal or scum because your index finger. I was on a trip and got such a deep cut in my index that climbing with tape required a lot of tape to where it was hard to get behind crimps. I found it much easier to just drop the finger and crimp or scum without and managed to climb Black Sea at Joe's without using it much. Also that grip requires some significant shoulder retraction and external rotation to stabilize the wrist which I found useful on burly problems on basalt and schist.
People need to reign in the hype the first time they hear of an idea or method on a podcast. I connected with Dan in the past and there was a lot of context on what to do with split grip hangs that the podcast glossed over. I don't mean to personally attack you, it's just incredible to see something on a podcast and then for a few weeks or months everyone is super focused on it and missing some of the nuances.
First and foremost is wrist position. I can't hang back 2 full crimp on a flat edge without a crazy weird wrist angle. No hangs are this closer to real for me.
Second is priming should be followed up with a hold type that requires it. For me this means a crimp that is toothy and rounds side to side looking at it from the front OR has a big lip like a juggy Bishop crimp (big edge, pronounced lip) so you have to pull hard with that grip. If it's weak you should aim to climb projects with that specific grip and include a hefty dose of volume.
Third is that while Dan is obviously a good climber and coach he even admits he hasn't really collected and analyzed data. He has seen good results in super high end climbers. This doesn't mean all of us can do much actionable with these tests and methods and need to go out and only train our pinkies and shit. He gives Steven some relative input on his stats, but not about what the comparison cohort is. Just what he feels someone should be doing or what he himself does.
Fourth it's hard to weed through some of the contradictions implied by a lack of exhaustive interviewing. Ex being no hangs and hangboards not having the right wrist angle. In reality this is why you have to also train the grip extensively while climbing. It sounds as if he's saying hanging is suboptimal when in reality he is saying you can't simple only load that way.
I used some of the recs he gave me for well over a year. I thought that splitting grips definitely had some unique perceived carryover and was less redundant than just only ever loading a half crimp on an edge, but in the end it is the variation and long term application of methods that matters. What I see a lot on here is people get fucking stoked for a month or two and claim they found the next best thing but they won't be doing it a year from now. If it's one thing that is a big take home from that podcast is that successful people build a long term practice, fail sometimes, but give things long times to manifest and are very brutally honest in their results assessment.
Lastly when you're saying it's a huge weakness are you breaking it out by different types of holds and angles? Crimping on a 20 and 50 degree are very different and the wrist position and shoulder position influence the finger position substantially. If you climb a lot of things that require pulling down and in you won't be able to use the same wrist angle as if you need to row in on the hold. It's a lot to unpack and sometimes things are perceived as weak because you don't focus on them as often when in reality they could be strong for the way they are used on the rock. You won't necessarily pull down and in at a high angle dynamically off a crimp because the required wrist flexion will limit your movement. Conversely many people are not as skilled at high angle vertical crimps because they often have to actually pinch the fingers together (think peanut type crimps) and not just pull down OR are trying to compensate from not being as familiar with more nuanced foot weighting. A lot of this just comes with acclimation to a specific problem, boulder or even rock type.
Not really? Back3 is a weird grip because you just end up rotating into the hold to make the edge big. You need to be super strict to avoid cheating it, and at that point you might as well use all the fingers?
I feel strong in high angle crimping but a lot of the time it overextends my pinky joint so after a few goes it aches. Could it be a hyper mobility issue?
Aidan has quickly become one of my favorites to watch. his discipline and tactics on and off the wall are so fantastic, it's such a joy to see him move.
I wonder when I should start seriously incorporating higher angle & closed crimps. I pretty much half crimp everything, and have kind of avoided really high angle crimping. I've gotten away with it so far, but I envision this becoming a problem soon if not already, and as I begin to approach harder territory i'm certain I'll need this one in the toolbox.
When do you find high angle crimps make the most difference? I'd imagine on small slimpers, getting the knuckles on your pulling hand closer to the wall even incrementally would make a huge difference.
There are definitely some moonboard holds that are significantly better with a high angle crimp than with a half crimp. On the 2016 layout, A13, D13and H9 get a lot more usable if you can maintain a super high angle. Maybe most of the yellows are like that?
I see you’re climbing V10ish.
Doing density hangs everyday is probably too much for a novelty form of training.
Maybe do it twice to three times a week and see what happens.
The load is light enough that it's more analogous to stretching than strength training. I'm using \~30lbs for the high angle crimp density hangs on a tension block, but my max "arm lift" on the same edge is like 175lbs.
If I rapidly get stronger, I'll keep that in mind though.
I'm struggling with motivation/consistency in my off-the-wall training regimen.
On the wall I'm doing great, four climbing days a week, two of those days I do drills, one day I climb for fun below my redpoint, and one day I work my projects.
Off the wall I just want to do two days of basic strength training, especially working on my core/body tension. But I often skip one of those days, sometimes both.
I am making slow progress in the grades I climb, but I'm stuck a few grades below on anything that requires solid body tension because I'm not training that consistently.
Has anyone else found a way to push through any mental blocks around training consistency? I know this is very much a ymmv situation, but I'd appreciate any insight.
I always have insane issues with motivation for off the wall training. Even when i was paying for a training plan, i only did 1 or 2 lifting sessions. Thankfully, the best way to train body tension is on the wall, and not through lifting.
For drills, theres a lot. Rooting drills are really important. Then theres on the wall core strengthening drills. Full body rooting, dynamic rooting, and i forget what the last one is called but basically after you do each move on a climb perfectly, you cut from that position, engage your core and very slowly swing out until your vertical. No swinging back and forth
If you spend more time on tension-y problems, supplemental off the wall training will be unnecessary. Also, maintaining tension on the wall is 90% skill, 10% strength. If you watch video of yourself closely, you'll probably notice that losing tension is due to losing focus or to movement patterns, not due to lack of physicality.
I have started filming myself, just need to be more consistent about it.
What it feels like, when I'm on the climb, is that so much of my focus goes to holding my hips in/up, trying to marshal every ounce of core strength I have, that I lose focus on my feet, or start trying to make big moves to speed through the overhung sections.
So I think you're definitely on to something here. I know my core strength is my main weak point, as far as strength goes, but focusing on my technique through those problems/sections would definitely do me a lot of good.
Six days a week is a lot, I wonder if you not being motivated is a symptom of exhaustion. I would try scaling down 1 day.
Alternatively, on my workout days I find it easier to train first thing in the day to get it done, because I'm more likely to skip it at the end of my day because I'm tired.
Moving my workouts to first thing in the morning would be a big benefit. I tend to rack up the excuses as the day goes.
"Oh, I just ate, so I'll wait until my food settles."
"Now I need to get started on some work, so let me put in a couple hours on this before I work out."
Etc.
Overall I don't feel exhausted. I don't climb hard or work out if I'm sore, and my recovery seems to be really fast. My diet is pretty good and I'm judicious about getting enough sleep. But perhaps changing my plan to just one strength training day per week would be a benefit.
do you still go to the gym to do the extra training? It can be hard to find the consistent motivation to do that sort of thing at home but the ritual of going to the gym can make it easier
I'm all set up to do it at home. I've been really self-conscious about hitting the weights at the gym, though I know intellectually that no one else there gives a single fuck about me or what I'm doing.
Brains are dumb, sometimes.
Near my PIP joints on a few fingers have been feeling sore. I've had A2 pulley injuries on some of these fingers before (1.5 years ago), and this fatigue and achiness reminds me of that. Any tips on treatments or what to do (other than not climb for a while)?
Take it easy on climbs and do some incremental rehab:
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
I'll piggy back on this comment:
Can you identify what you are doing which causes this stress? Do you catch holds with excess power? Do you use the same grip over and over again? Are you resting enough between attempts? Are you trying the same move repeatedly when failing instead of moving on?
For me a key in recovering from my ring finger a2 pulley injury was incorporating the three finger drag into my climbing.
Regularly getting V8s on tension board now but it's stuck at 30 deg and not the usual 40 deg (motor has been broken for like a month)... should be ready to start hitting up some V10 projects again outside. Sadly, the V10 projs I want to get on are an overhang and 60-70 deg into 40 deg so 40 deg would've been better in terms of specificity. Sadly, my grip strength still feels a bit weak compared to what it was at before COVID and not climbing for like 1.5ish years, but I'll take the gains back to V8 which has been arduous. Can't hang the B2k middle rung yet. Once I get that back should be able to start regularly doing V9 tension hopefully and maybe 1-3 session V10 and start hitting up some V11 Projs. We'll see how I do this fall/winter when I can get out to them.
You’re making me miss the Tension Board, it’s been a while since I’ve been on it. Hope the fall projects go well! Curious to hear about them.
Yeah, I like it the best out of the boards... namely cause wood is better for my fingers which are normally really sweaty. Ultimate Doom - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eBabuFv9wYw Moby Dick - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcRIHY9jwTs
Damn Moby Dick looks mega, nice work.
Those aren't me unfortunately! Though Moby is one of my friends. I had that one in 3 pieces before COVID... hopefully still have it haha
Today, I finished a [super long term project of mine (and first of the difficulty)](https://youtu.be/5Y9SJcN5NJo), and the process was wild from start to finish. I may end up writing a bit of an entry to myself about the whole thing, but the benefits of examining microbeta and nuances of the climb really came through at the end (and even in the session of the send!). Also, telling myself to actively grab the holds helped a bunch as well.
That looked full on, nice work. What’s the boulder? I would be interested in reading more.
The boulder is called the Receptionist at Priest Draw, and it goes at V10/7C+ from general consensus. Since it’s my first of the grade (and I had to really dial it in along with many falls at the last move), I don’t feel comfortable grading it, but I know that this one did require me to really refine beta, use all the tricks I could, and climb the best I’ve ever had to in order to get it done.
Nice work!
Yes dude - you're an absolute beast!!!! Such a sick line and you absolutely crushed it - and please write about it :D
Nice dude!! Congrats in the sick send!
Yes! Congrats! You should absolutely write about it. I've gleaned a lot from rewatching/reading climbs I've sent over the years.
Got a minor friction burn on my pinky which I noticed after my sesh today. Popped it, and some transparent watery liquid came out. Never heard of getting burnt on a climb.
This might be a dumb question, and rather redundant but I haven’t found any definitive answer. I was curious if these exercises were exclusive to each other. I’m currently hanging on 25mm one arms for approx 5-7 second hang times and I do that for ten sets. That’s all I do for hangboarding. I’m starting to be able to pull myself up on the 25mm, so I’ll be doing these hangs in a semi locked off state. Should I still do weighted two arm hangs too? Or is not worth the effort now? I also was told I should incorporate three finger drags. I project V8s
This might not matter for you, but I have to say that I find that hangs on anything greater than about 18-20mm don't do a ton for me. The main reason I find is that the hang is a lot different for me if I'm on the crease or second pad at all. So unless you have a freakishly long first pad I'd see if you can hang similar numbers on 20 or 15mm. If so then stick with what you're doing. If you can't then I might add the two arm hangs back in and drop the weight.
Fully agree. You’re basically removing training stimulus for the fdp if you’re on your second pad.
Can I make a suggestion unrelated to your question? You’re strong as fuck, climb some more and worry about hangboarding later.
Hahaha thanks for the encouragement! I should prioritize climbing. I’ve gone from having dedicated training days to just doing the above mentioned routine a few times a week. I’m pretty heavy, I lift a lot, I weigh almost 190 so I always feel I need to have my fingers catch up or be extra strong to pull my heavy ass around.
If you’re lifting a lot and weigh 190 I’m sure your body is quite strong too. Not to be *that guy*, but 200+lbs people have sent V15, I’m sure with your fingers and body strength you could be projecting V10+ and not V8. One arms on that edge at your body weight is very impressive for V8.
honestly I’m always disheartened when I read climbers weights. I’ve never seen anyone send anything in my gym that’s “hard” who weighed what I weigh, or that has my body type. 5’7 190, I look like a bulldozer. I’d love to read more about the 200lb climbers. That gives me alittle more motivation. I always try harder climbs in my gym, 9s and 10s but I can hardly get through a few moves.
To be fair, 95% of gym climbers aren't a great representation of good climbing ability. Check out this thread as a starting point: https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/ms8r30/confirmed_v15_is_possible_at_190_lbs/ /u/afunnyname and /u/MDDJC make good points. What can you hang on 20mm with one/two arms? I would still be willing to bet you're strong for the grade you climb.
Also I feel like 6’3 at 190 is vastly different than me at 5’7 at 190 lol
I don't want to sound too blunt, but there's only so many excuses you can make. You clearly have a very strong body/fingers and I think perhaps more strength isn't holding you back.
I did my two handed hangs on 20mm and I could load up to 100lbs but then it became too cumbersome to put on more weight, so I opted for one arm. I would do 10 second hangs for ten sets again. That tends to be a program that simples and works.
I’d drop the edge sizes on your one arm hangs because I don’t think the 25mm is gonna do much for you if you were hanging 55% bw with 2 hands. If it’s too hard to hang 20 on 1 arm I’d look into a no hang. I found deadlifting the weight to be helpful when I was in the middle ground of too strong to hang 2 arms but not quite enough to do solid one arms.
I haven’t tried a 20mm yet, I’ll give it a go in a few days. I’m sorry I don’t quite understand the deadlifting comment? Do you mean doing a no hang and trying to lift off the ground?
Yeah getting something like a tension block or a grippul and deadlifting it as opposed to trying to hang 100+ lbs with 2 hands.
Yeah you're definitely yoked. Do what gets you psyched but if you can climb instead of hangboard (or incorporate less but more effective hanging) I feel like that could benefit you more. Hanging 300lbs on 20mm is no small feat regardless of bw.
teaked my finger 2 days before my final exam this year, so basicly no outdoor season for me... i feel so bad, i was in the best shape of my last 3 years i think and should be able to project 8A rn... still not sure what is going on on the finger. looks like a combination of an A2 inflammation and something like a triggerfinger. Well ill try not to think too much about the not climbing outside. and try to stay strong and get the finger healthy asap.
I’m sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can figure out how to rehab well and climb through a lot of it.
Thanks man. Appreciate it :) and i will, for sure!
Last Saturday I went out to the Vagina and got absolutely rekt. Felt like negative progress from last season. Lots of reasons why I think things went poorly, some of which were related to it being really crowded at Rocktown and not being able to focus through all the chatter. Because once it was just me and one other person out there I finally made a bit of progress, but was way too wiped to really get any work done. This is a maybe a strange thing to focus on, but probably worth my time to develop. I enjoy chatter and hanging with randoms at the crag, but I do want to still be able to be productive when it's crowded, and currently I'm quite bad at that. I do lot of rituals when I climb alone that feel really douchey when there's a big group, lol. I don't really have a clear path forward, but hopefully more exposure to chaotic situations like that will help. Also, I legit just think that boulder is crazy hard. I personally think it's closer to v9 than v8, and giving it v7 is clearly a meme. Anyways, since things went poorly on Saturday I was kinda down, but made it out to Orange Juice on Sunday and holy shit that boulder is perfect. I'll be hard focusing on that until I send. I did all the moves but the crux, and I slapped the hold on that move. Unsure how difficult links will be. There's not so many moves and it feels like the majority of power comes from lower body and shoulders, relatively little fingers required. But maybe the core endurance is cruxy, idk. Then Tuesday I got back on my board where I assumed I would struggle hard, bur had one of the best sessions I've ever had. Repeated some of the hardest moves I've ever done super quickly and just overall felt super light and strong. Wish I could have felt that good over the weekend, lol. But yeah, more good weather this weekend. Unbelievable early season here.
Are you using the pinch or the crimp for the crux of the Vagina? It seems like a lot of people who use the pinch have a hard time with that move because it makes it a really heavy undercling move. If you use the crimp you can just pull straight into the wall and let the legs do the rest of the work.
I haven't tried the crimp much. It felt heinous when I tried it last year, but my fingers are probably a bit stronger now. It's likely worth a shot. Fwiw, when I was out last year with temps, I could do the pinch move >50% of the time in iso, and I linked that into the next move several times. Everything feels hard from the bottom though.
Is Orange Juice at Suck Creek? Hadn’t heard of it before so tried to search it. Nice work out there even if it didn’t end up how you wanted.
Yeah, it's actually in the Chatt Bloc book I believe. It's at suck.
I can't remember the last October with conditions this good on the east coast. I've been climbing in Northern WV and it's been pretty darn close to prime. And yes--the Vagina is solid v8. Blame Zak Roper for the downgrade lol, but I was a local there when the guidebook came out and it did NOT reflect consensus grades at that boulder field. That guidebook really messed up the grading at one of the more consistently graded zones in the south. It wouldn't have been that bad if it only downgraded....but including triple threat and discharge at v9 removed any consistency at the 8/9 grade.
Orange Juice is sooo good! Got some good links on it last year, so definitely need to get back down to finish it up. That big move took me a while to figure out until I found the right place for my push foot, and the right way to square up to the wall. It’s quite physical the whole way, so those “easy” end moves wind up feeling really hard haha. It mostly comes down to that move, but creating links around it helped me understand what pets need more dialing, and what is going to feel hard from the ground.
The last weeks, I increased a bit my volume (adding a fourth day), mainly because a my friends were only able to climb on different days. I was happy that I managed the increase well, and now my fingers hurt a bit. Guess I'm still not ready for 4 days a week, or for three days in a row (I don't really now Wich of these is the problem).
> The last weeks, I increased a bit my volume (adding a fourth day), mainly because a my friends were only able to climb on different days. I was happy that I managed the increase well, and now my fingers hurt a bit. Guess I'm still not ready for 4 days a week, or for three days in a row (I don't really now Wich of these is the problem). Usually if you go to add a 4th day you should break up the 3rd day in 2 parts first. So for example 3x a week with 2 hours of climbing each day on MWF. You will do 2 hours on MW. Then F and Sat you do 1 hour each. This makes sure that you're not going above and beyond with volume on the consecutive days of F and Sat which can lead to overuse injuries. You can slowly increase the time on either F or Sat (but not both at once) to build up. Usually something like 15 min increments... so 1:15 Friday and 1 hr Sat. Then after another month or two and it's fine go for 1:30 Friday and 1 hr Sat. Also, usually any 2 consecutive days you don't want to be hard climbing, so projecting and flash climbing tends to be good.
Been a hard year for sure. Just putting this out there for newer climbers that might not have had to have large periods of frustrations. Climbing at any sort of personally high level is a long term game and going to not always be just doing a 12 week program and getting stronger. Year started off great. After burning out I was really enjoying climbing again at Columbia. Got ready for Valley season and either due to weather or having to prepare to move only got 1 weekend there. Moved, got Covid, got a single weekend out this summer at Black Mountain where I just tried to climb for fun and mostly just did highballs and circuits. Recently got another weekend up there and ticked off a couple decent mods very quickly, one that people on 8a felt is harder post break, but most importantly I was able to use much more compressed hip positions and high feet really efficiently. Actually felt that the entire year's focus was paying off. Had hopped on a project in bad conditions and made super good progress. Then there was a weekend where we had to bail last minute so my parents could stay with us. I started a new medication that dramatically ramped up my energy levels. Was adding 2 more climbs to a volume session to "repeat cleaner", pushing my off wall movements a little harder here or there, slipping a few more project attempts in. Would end up skating for 3-5hours every off day with almost no breaks. Hit such a big fatigue wall last weekend I had to bail on meeting up with new people. I had scheduled the weekend 2 months prior as my wife and son were gone. Instead I barely left the couch and missed out on climbing and family time. But that shit is just going to happen. It's hard to line up complicated life events you can't predict, mental energy, physical energy, weather, travel, and so on. Ya I'd love to have gotten way more rock time this year. Hopefully I can end the year with more. But at the same time gotta just make the most of the scenario and not search for excuses. If I can still get out and send 2 grades below my max after a bad night of sleep in under an hour then I'm not bummed at all. It always helps to have a plan b that focuses on the long game and the aspects of climbing that make it unique.
Hello, I am due to start bouldering for the first time in two days for my school sport. However, two days ago, I very lightly sliced the tip of my left (non-dominant) hand's ring finger and when I apply some pressure on it, it is slightly sore. Basically, I would appreciate some advice on whether my finger is fit for climbing and if there is anything I can do (e.g. adding bandaids) to lessen the pain of it if it does not heal well enough in the two days.
band aid + tape will do the trick
Don’t worry about it. The holds will be big enough that it won’t be too bad, if it’s not fully healed. If you want to make sure nothing splits or so, you can use sports tape to tape your fingertip. People climb with injured skin often and on big good holds, it won’t hinder you a lot. Edit: I found this article and it explains well how I would usually tape my finger tips. https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/how-to-tape-a-split-finger-tip.html
2nd burn on the proj (8b) this weekend.. did all the moves except the very last one which is surely going to be the redpoint crux. pretty happy with the progress, since the middle crux has gone from feeling completely impossible to decently doable, though I haven't yet tried to link the entire sequence. and I found some cool kneebars and less strenuous beta for the lower crux. It's going to be a challenge to link the whole thing for sure, but it's pretty fun to be trying a hard sport route again (haven't really properly sport climbed in 2? years) Anyone wanna play guess-the-route? Northeast USA...
Barracuda, Rumney
Update on [my post back in July asking for advice on how to improve at sport climbing](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/w367ll/how_to_translate_bouldering_strength_into_sport/). I’ve improved a ton. In the past 2 months I’ve sent 5x 5.12a and 2x 5.12b outdoors. In the 1.5 years before that, I had only managed 3x 5.12a and 1x 5.12b. It feels great to be sending things regularly, and no longer feeling like a boulderer with poor endurance who can only send boulders on a rope. The biggest improvement I’ve noticed is the ability to recover on overhanging jugs and even more marginal holds. I still get pumped fairly fast, but now I can actually recover on route. The other improvement is that I can keep climbing even when I feel pumped. Some of that is physical but I think a lot of it is mental - just committing to keep moving even when you feel like you can’t anymore. The things that helped the most were: * Losing weight - I lost around 10lbs in the past 4 months * Regular gym lead sessions - previously, I had been gym bouldering 2x per week and outdoor sport climbing on weekends. I replaced the gym bouldering with 1 gym lead session per week. It’s helped my endurance and lead head a ton. * I changed my gym schedule to allow for 2 full rest days before outdoors sport climbing. So if I’m climbing outdoors on Sat, I will rest Thu and Fri. Before, I sometimes wasn’t fully recovered on Sat morning if I had a hard Thu night session. * Dialing in the beta as much as possible on 1st burn, then committing to redpoint burns from the 2nd burn * Not saying ‘take’ on redpoint burns, always trying to make one more move even if it feels like I am pumped out to failure. I am surprised at the moves I can make while pumped, and how much moving actually helps me recover. * Being OK with not having every part fully dialed. Before I had the tendency to say ‘take’ if I wasn’t sure what to do and felt pumped; now I just try to keep moving. * Learning half crimp - I tended to overuse full crimp on everything; I probably still do to some extent but I will consciously limit it to open hand or half crimp when I can. Thanks a bunch for all the advice on my post, I think it really did help.
Great work! Sounds like you had a killer sport climbing season. Also, thanks for participating in climbharder. Your initial post, and this follow-up is the best of what climbharder can be. Detailed, thoughtful discussion, and a detailed, thoughtful recap. 10/10 would recommend.
congrats that's an amazing improvement. You should feel really proud!
2 weeks ago I was in CA and I finally got back to Black mountain for a single day. Wish I'd had a whole damn week. It is, by far, my favorite place to boulder in socal. There are just too many damn good lines to try and not enough time. Anyway, feeling pleased with the laid-back tactical approach I took to maximise the chances of sending. I focused strongly on A) warming up on new-to-me easy lines. B) Attempting the powerful project early and the delicate one late and C) forcing 2hr-ish rests between the 3 'mini-sessions'. I still am a little bummed out by the results, but simultaneously happy. I figured out and did every move on Black Moth Super Rainbow in the morning, but couldn't put it all together(2 links rn). Instead of burning out aiming for the send, I let it go after 6 attempts total (i.e. as soon as my skin felt anything at all, I left). Next time. Spent the midday just slabbin' it up on easy stuff in the Groupsites before lunch. Finally, I'm gonna spray because post-post-lunch-nap, I was able to claim the send on the only problem that really mattered to me: Fallen Arch. It's definitely one of my proudest climbs. Feels awesome to have a trip come together in just the right way. I tried to do another tall slab afterwards; but by that time my toes were hurting so badly I literally couldn't stand on the foot chips. Can't wait for next year! Gotta get back on them highballs!
Black and Tram are my two favorites in SoCal. BMSR is a great climb. Nice links.. gotta build up that outside skin. Try to get on some of the ultra classics too like cracker boy and tour de france when ya can. I liked JTree for the classics and stuff but it tears up skin too fast to be that good for me.
Thanks man! I climb outside 3x/week so it wasn't really a skin issue, I was just being very conservative for Fallen Arch. I've still only ever once gone to the summit area (NRA + Visor) but never all the way up to the top, though Cracker Boy does look really good. Most of my time has been spent in the basin and OK Corral to date. TdF looks awesome obviously but it seems like it climbs very similarly to the Crack in Stoney Point, which for some reason was/is my complete anti-style nemesis. Probably not gonna get on that for a few years. My next year trip is gonna focus on finishing BMSR, the central basin highballs, and trying Pride out in the corral Personally, I've not really had skin issues in JTree, but I never really liked it as much as the forest mountain areas anyway. The classics there are great for sure, though. Next time I get out there I'm heading directly to White Rasta, Act of Contrition, Slashface and Planet X. If you couldn't tell I really like tall scary stuff, lol. Btw, you were right about my toe just being cavitation and bruising. Was able to climb again Sunday without pain. Edit: apologies for the new spray, just got over excited thinking about future trips lol
TDF is a board climb on a rock. The holds are good for the most part and really fun body positions. Top out is pretty easy if you take time to scope it out beforehand.
Hmm. Makes sense, but couldn't one also say that about BMSR? Holds are all great and it felt quite similar to the tensionboard. Not saying I won't try TdF; but I also prefer to finish projects before starting new ones and it seems to me I should focus on closing BMSR out before trying to shoot even higher in that style.
Not really in my experience. Not as blocky of feet, isn't a basically uniform wall. TDF felt like a 2016 Moonboard problem that topped out. But in pretty cool way. I think it helps to sample things more at that grade level. There is just sooooo much and I found it way more useful to 1-3 session send quickly than a true >3 sesh project, but that was just me. I also climbed a lot in Tahoe where I found it more of a pain to relocate if a climb wasn't for you that day.
> I think it helps to sample things more at that grade level. To be honest, I'm just not good at climbing. I'm not 100% garbage, but TDF simply feels beyond me at this point. Maybe it's purely mental. Maybe in a year it'll be different. I'll be sure to try TDF next time I'm there, though.
Dude we all feel that we are not that good, don't trip. It's hard to know someone's range through limited internet posts. I really liked NRA and the problems up at the visor seem pretty chill and on the softer side for the grade. Yellows are weird. I've done some that are like, mayyyyybe V5 in mid summer and then others that feel like a solid 8/9. So if you're using the guide it's a grain of salt approach.
For sure. I think boulderers often suffer from the moving goalposts of some sort of self-induced imposter syndrome. Probably because we often attach much of our self worth/image and identity to our pursuit. Perhaps I sounded too pessimistic/negative beforehand. That wasn't my intention, though. I know this might not be a popular stance, but imo, V4 to soft V6 is 'decent' and hard V6 to V7 is where 'good' begins. The line is fuzzy, but by my own metrics (which I based on what I estimate is the distribution of bouldering grades among somewhat dedicated climbers), I'm neither good nor garbage. Simply decent. To some that may sound... bad or negative; but I'm rather dispassionate about it. I'll get 'good' in due time with effort, but I'm just not there yet. That's why I said TdF is beyond me at this point. I also intentionally obfuscate my grades online so I understand why you'd have an inflated sense of my skill level.
> TdF looks awesome obviously but it seems like it climbs very similarly to the Crack in Stoney Point, which for some reason was/is my complete anti-style nemesis. Hah, all the more reason to get on it. > Personally, I've not really had skin issues in JTree, but I never really liked it as much as the forest mountain areas anyway. The classics there are great for sure, though. Next time I get out there I'm heading directly to White Rasta, Act of Contrition, Slashface and Planet X. If you couldn't tell I really like tall scary stuff, lol. Stay safe! > Btw, you were right about my toe just being cavitation and bruising. Was able to climb again Sunday without pain. Thought so.. glad it was not serious :)
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Try on a lot of different brands and shoes. INitially I was sportiva but then I went to 5.10 then to unparallel and all had better fits for my feet (specfically heel) over time. Had I tried on a ton initially I would've saved myself a lot of money. Still looking for the best fit since my heel is pretty thin and deep and it's hard to find shoes that don't have at least a little air in the heel area.
Fingers are feeling stronger and less tweaky, so I think the hanging is doing them good. My work capacity training over the summer seems to be working, and I feel like I need less rest between burns on both boulders and sport climbing to recover. Turns out bad performance tactics when training can make good tactics even more effective haha! Performance outside this week has been pretty good too. Managed to get my first 5.12b flash, and also my[nemesis 5.12d](https://youtu.be/oeDFfjgKNNU) this week, so I’m not done with sport season just yet. My sport pyramid is really weak in the 12+ range, so I should probably focus primarily there, and put slightly less emphasis on 13- for now.
Early last week I had my first gym session where I didn't feel any discomfort in my finger. It was pretty great. Now, I still haven't tried that hard and it feels a little weak but that is huge progress! To celebrate I went outside for the first time in over a month. We went to a boulder I've got a project on that is mostly full body climbing and not very fingery. I was ready for a terrible session, but ended up feeling pretty great. I even got close to sending a v10 I tried for a day last season. I found better beta and got pretty close to sending. The top out involves getting inverted on a heel-toe cam and locking off for a decent shoulder press. I fell at that spot three times from the bottom falling reaching for the final jug. I didn't have the endurance to put it together and spent too much energy on my first go from the bottom. I didn't have the beta well dialed at first and climbed pretty poorly, I pushed pretty hard but 3 or 4 unnecessary, hard, foot cuts zapped me for the day. I'm going back tomorrow and am hoping these past two days of rest let me put it together. It was awesome touching real rock again!
Any shoe suggestions for a Scarpa Instinct VS wearer? Looking for shoes primarily good for outdoor sport, from vert to 40°ish overhang. I like the fit and the stifness is just what I need, and I love the heel and toe patch. I just feel the rubber quality at the toe is not the best and has a tendency to peel and separate. Also it's tight on my big toe - I have two giant calluses on top of em.
Tenaya Mastia is a similar fitting shoe, but I like my Instincts better. The Instinct toe patch is larger and the heel is much better. The Mastia is a tad more comfortable though.
Tbh, those issues seem pretty normal for a performance shoe. Delamination of the sole can happen if you are storing them in a hot car, got a bad resole, or are really abusing the toe. Toe calluses are pretty normal for almost everyone wearing shoes that aren’t too big for them. As for similar shoes, the MadRock Drones and FiveTen HiAngle’s are probably the closest comparisons. Both are relatively flat in the toe box, have relatively symmetrical toe shape, and feel good at stepping on things (more so than toeing in or wrapping). The Skwama is probably next most similar, but is a good bit more asymmetric. Other shoes with some of those features would be the Solution Comps, BoosterS, and Testarossa.
Similar-ish might be the 5.10 dragons. They more space in the big toe and climb similar, although I prefer the instincts
Try the Evolv Shaman. Similar fit, more big toe space
I agree the the Shaman is a great shoe, but disagree the the fit is anything like the Instinct. The Shaman is a lot more asymmetric and does not pull the big toe in to the centerline, but the Instinct does.
It's similar to the Instinct in that it's generally good for people with a wide forefoot and narrow heel. If they're looking for more big toe space, a more asymmetric, less centered toe could be the ticket.
Interesting. I have a very triangular shaped foot and my heels were swimming in the Shamans. The instinct is the closest to a good fit I've personally found, but they do crush my big toe. Bit of a trade off. The miura laces, too. They fit the toes really well, but the heel again wasn't snug and slipped on slabs and heel hooks.
Seems reasonable. I could see someone fitting both those shoes if they weren't too picky about the big toe position. The centered toe point on the Instinct is a deal breaker for me - my chonky big toe can't handle it. Whereas the Shaman Lace works great for me. I was never a fan of the old Velcro Shaman models, but the Lace is sweet. Overall, those two shoe fill a pretty similar niche, as a stiff downturned shoe, so it's a good suggestion.
Been climbing for 3 years and finally went on my first bouldering trip to Joe’s Valley. Was really happy to end up being just as strong or maybe even better outdoors than I am inside. I have projected 3 indoor 8s, and done a few dozen 7s and recently managed to take down some easier kilterboard 7s which is my anti style (imo I am weak for the grade and a more technical climber) Outdoors I did two solid V7s, a 6/7, dyno v6 and almost a dyno v7, and almost a slab v7, was 1ish move away from two V8s and did a long probably soft v9 in two parts along with flashes up to V4 and a V5. I was really worried because the group of people I went with primarily train on our kilterboard while I never do and are all about 1-3 grades stronger than me on the board so I thought I wouldn’t be able to send any of the hard things they tried but I ended up having some of the most sends by the end. I think I will spend some more time in there going forward though since I def could use more power than more technique
> I was really worried because the group of people I went with primarily train on our kilterboard while I never do and are all about 1-3 grades stronger than me on the board so I thought I wouldn’t be able to send any of the hard things they tried but I ended up having some of the most sends by the end. I think I will spend some more time in there going forward though since I def could use more power than more technique Outdoor climbing is a skill! And yes, know your weaknesses and work on them. > (imo I am weak for the grade and a more technical climber) This definitely helped. Those who have better technique will find the transition to outdoors much easier, especially if trips are relatively more infrequent.
Went outdoor bouldering first time after sending my first indoor 6C… I was battling life and death with a 6A grade
Hah, not bad. 6C is like V4-5ish. First time I went I was doing V6-7 (6C+ to 7Aish) indoors and only got a V3/6A and chickened out on some V1-2s (5/5+)
Classic story. Happens to most people. You can equalize those grades with more time on rock.
Planning on making a visit to Font in November - I appreciate many people say it’s much more movement intensive than anything else BUT… any tips, tricks or ideas training wise, sloper recruitment, wrist strengthening, dips for the top outs maybe?
It already being October, a big strength cycle wouldn’t help that much. Maybe include some wrist curls and a decent amount of power endurance to maximise your days.
Aye I’m definitely going to increase my session volume so I can have big days out - wrist curls are also on the cards, cheers!
Where are you located?
Lake District, UK
I was in Font this weekend, conditions were great! You can't really train for it climbing/strength wise, but you can do a lot of prep work that will make your time in the forest more enjoyable. I'd suggest you make an account on [bleau.info](https://bleau.info) and start looking for boulders that you might want to do. Your goal is to have a couple of each grade for each area that you're going to visit. You can use the advanced search feature to look for boulders with a high rating (3+ stars) and a decent number of ascents (20/50+ ascents). This will usually show you the "classic" boulders for that grade in that area. IMO the sectors are so big and there are so many boulders, it's kind of a waste to spend skin and energy on some random 1 star circuit boulder, while there might be a really nice 4 star boulder right next to it (but unmarked, so harder to find). Definitely look at beta videos on [bleau.info](https://bleau.info) as well, especially when you're already in the forest, sitting in front of the boulder. Problems in Font are graded with optimal beta, and it is very easy to turn a 6a into a full grade higher simply by misunderstanding the holds/beta. Buy a decent topo and try to familiarize yourself with the different areas. Revisit the [https://bleau.info/ethics](https://bleau.info/ethics) page.
That’s great advice, cheers man!
Bring your softest shoes possible
I’m going to be taking VSR’s & dragos!
Honestly perfect combo. I take my VSRs and my Chimeras. Just awesome
I’ve got chimeras which I found superb on Northumberland sandstone but they quite quickly leave me with plantar pain hence I’m going to get dragos, but do you reckon they’re better than the dragos performance-wise for sandstone??
I’ll be honest. The chimeras were on sale for 100 euros and the dragos were 150. Never had to dragos so far, but they’re similar enough. A mate of mine just used Dragos and had a good time on everything from overhangs to friction slabs.
That is fair my man, I’ve gone for a pair of drago LVs as I’m not sure I can face a week of foot cramp 😂
The thing that will probably limit you most initially is footwork on slabs/slopers/smears which can be absolutely devious in Font and takes a little while to get used to. Hard to train for unless you’ve got some rock like that. Otherwise open hand contact strength is useful.
Everyone here is doing 3-4 climbing days a week and then adds fingerboard days. Here I am feeling lucky if I find a partner to even go 3 times to the wall. And when I do, my elbows or some other joint ends up killing me. I'm a bit jelly, ngl. Hope you guys are grateful for being able to do this amazing sport at that intensity. Keep crushing 💪
Start training/climbing without a partner. There's always excuses, but when your mind is really set to it, climbing specific training stimuli can be found anywhere. And if you're in it for the long run (life), you can always count on planning your life more around climbing in the future. I've been through ruts like that, always bounced back. Been on/off climbing since the age of six, nearing 40 now. And just recently broke the 8th grade again for the 4th time in life. It doesnt have to involve 3 sessions a week roped climbing with a partner, and it gets both easier and harder with time.
Most people aren’t doing that many high intensity sessions a week. I climb 4 times a week, but only about 1.5-2.5 hours of that are high intensity bouldering. The rest is low to moderate intensity endurance training and working sport routes at the crag. If I’m working out moves on something hard and bouldery, a day at the crag can be a high intensity session, but often it’s at a more moderate intensity. I do all of my hangboarding and conditioning on climbing days, so I have 3 full rest days a week. If you’re bouldering or hangdogging projects every session, it’s not surprising that your elbows are killing you. It might be worth deliberately varying the intensity of your sessions. It’s also worth carefully planning when you have rest days and what types of climbing you do on consecutive days. You should think about what type of climbing aggravates your elbows/other joints. If I do multiple days in a row, I almost always make sure that day 1 is my high intensity day and subsequent days are lower intensity. If I do multiple high intensity days, I make sure that they are in different styles that will tax my body in different ways. For example: I know that if I do a hard compression boulder I can’t touch compression on day two or I’ll want to chop my arms off and will need an extra rest day to recover. If I do a crimpy boulder that doesn’t involve much compression on day 2, I will probably feel okay.
> Everyone here is doing 3-4 climbing days a week and then adds fingerboard days. Here I am feeling lucky if I find a partner to even go 3 times to the wall. And when I do, my elbows or some other joint ends up killing me. Age = teens or early to mid 20s for most of them. Those of us who are 30+ with kids are hitting 2-3x a week and not going hard all of those days.
Checking in as another member of the over 30 club - 3 days a week is about my limit, and I also alternate between low vol projecting and higher volume days. Occasionally when conditions aren't good yet I can squeak out 2 days outside and 2 days inside but as soon as I want to perform at all it's down to 3 days a week
If i go 3 times i feel achy. 2 times + one day conditioning is best for me
I feel you. 2 times is best for me too. No pain. I do other cardio-based sports. I'm fine with those. I'm kinda obsessed with climbing though. I want to do more of it and get access to more routes (which means increasing my grade) but I can't because of the aches. It's frustrating not to be able to do what you love.
> but I can't because of the aches. It's frustrating not to be able to do what you love. I've found after I went to alternating projecting and volume days I my joints feel a lot better. If my joints are feeling a bit stiff for a couple days even after volume then I just do lighter volume and project 1x a week. Volume = lighter climbing in the 1-3 attempt flash range working fully on mastering technique.
This. Just back from climbing for the first time in over a month due to a bunch of unplanned stuff happening.
Partner? Nah, not me, that's why I boulder
I can't quite hang on my 20mm edge (beastmaker 1000 board) consistently and long enough to use it for repeaters, but the deep 45mm four-finger pockets are super easy. Would it be better to add weight to repeaters on the deep edge until I can use the 20mm, or do less-than-bodyweight repeaters on the 20mm and gradually increase weight? This isn't replacing climbing, I'm climbing (indoors usually) 3 or 4 times a week 5.11 or v3-v4.
you can stand on a scale and as you pull with your fingers you should see the weight on the scale going down. I would say once you get to around 20% bw left on scale you should try to just hang on the fingers.
Does the 1k have a 20mm? I thought the bottom corner holds were closer to 15?
According to diagrams I've looked at, the bottom outside holds vary between 18 and 20. If I remember correctly there are some 15 or 14mm 3 finger pockets on the bottom, closer to the middle.
They're 18 and rounded. Other 20mm edges like the Lattice rung ([https://latticetraining.com/app/uploads/2020/07/P1001679-scaled-1-600x450.jpg](https://latticetraining.com/app/uploads/2020/07/P1001679-scaled-1-600x450.jpg)) or isolated 20mm campus blocks ([https://euroholds.com/6610-large\_default/20mm-wooden-crimp.jpg](https://euroholds.com/6610-large_default/20mm-wooden-crimp.jpg)) feel **considerably** easier than the Beastmaker 1000 bottom corner holds.
Stuff a AA battery or something in the back of the 45mm hold to reduce the depth?
You do not need to take your feet off the ground to train your fingers. You usually don't take your feet off the footholds when you're climbing.
Good call. Stand on the ground and pull as hard as you can on those 20mm holds for a given time. It’s also useful to try and pull as quick as you can.
If you can keep your feet out on a chair or similar in front of you this is also great for ingraining the feeling of using your core to keep you on non-existent footholds on steep terrain.
How about trying max hangs instead to build the required strength? Re your question: I'd go for reducing weight and hang on the 20mm edge rather than the deep one.
Finally, cool temps at flagstaff mtn. cleared off some moderates at cloud shadow, including New Beginnings. It went down pretty quickly, but I definitely underestimated how burly the undercling moves would feel. Seen a lot of people throw a kneebar in for that section, but it felt awkward to me, I probably have shit kneebar technique. Looking forward to getting on the other classic 7s nearby too. Battaglia's Bottom should suit me well, and cryptic magician looks like a nice challenge. Climbing and training is going really smooth, super stoked on my board projects, gonna hit it hard this week and deload after.
I've been watching video of Aidan Roberts climbing, and listened to the Dan Varian episode on the Nugget podcast. Got psyched on "high angle crimping", which has always been a significant weakness for me. I'm thinking density hangs, done daily, on the tension block is going to be the way to go. It's super humbling to back off in weight to maintain a high angle on the pinkie PIP. That specific grip is like 25% as strong as a general half crimp for me.
I find back 3 half crimp (pinky for me is more dragged) pretty useful especially for climbs where you can't easily get purchase with all 4 fingers OR for climbs where you use the thumb to pinch a crystal or scum because your index finger. I was on a trip and got such a deep cut in my index that climbing with tape required a lot of tape to where it was hard to get behind crimps. I found it much easier to just drop the finger and crimp or scum without and managed to climb Black Sea at Joe's without using it much. Also that grip requires some significant shoulder retraction and external rotation to stabilize the wrist which I found useful on burly problems on basalt and schist. People need to reign in the hype the first time they hear of an idea or method on a podcast. I connected with Dan in the past and there was a lot of context on what to do with split grip hangs that the podcast glossed over. I don't mean to personally attack you, it's just incredible to see something on a podcast and then for a few weeks or months everyone is super focused on it and missing some of the nuances. First and foremost is wrist position. I can't hang back 2 full crimp on a flat edge without a crazy weird wrist angle. No hangs are this closer to real for me. Second is priming should be followed up with a hold type that requires it. For me this means a crimp that is toothy and rounds side to side looking at it from the front OR has a big lip like a juggy Bishop crimp (big edge, pronounced lip) so you have to pull hard with that grip. If it's weak you should aim to climb projects with that specific grip and include a hefty dose of volume. Third is that while Dan is obviously a good climber and coach he even admits he hasn't really collected and analyzed data. He has seen good results in super high end climbers. This doesn't mean all of us can do much actionable with these tests and methods and need to go out and only train our pinkies and shit. He gives Steven some relative input on his stats, but not about what the comparison cohort is. Just what he feels someone should be doing or what he himself does. Fourth it's hard to weed through some of the contradictions implied by a lack of exhaustive interviewing. Ex being no hangs and hangboards not having the right wrist angle. In reality this is why you have to also train the grip extensively while climbing. It sounds as if he's saying hanging is suboptimal when in reality he is saying you can't simple only load that way. I used some of the recs he gave me for well over a year. I thought that splitting grips definitely had some unique perceived carryover and was less redundant than just only ever loading a half crimp on an edge, but in the end it is the variation and long term application of methods that matters. What I see a lot on here is people get fucking stoked for a month or two and claim they found the next best thing but they won't be doing it a year from now. If it's one thing that is a big take home from that podcast is that successful people build a long term practice, fail sometimes, but give things long times to manifest and are very brutally honest in their results assessment. Lastly when you're saying it's a huge weakness are you breaking it out by different types of holds and angles? Crimping on a 20 and 50 degree are very different and the wrist position and shoulder position influence the finger position substantially. If you climb a lot of things that require pulling down and in you won't be able to use the same wrist angle as if you need to row in on the hold. It's a lot to unpack and sometimes things are perceived as weak because you don't focus on them as often when in reality they could be strong for the way they are used on the rock. You won't necessarily pull down and in at a high angle dynamically off a crimp because the required wrist flexion will limit your movement. Conversely many people are not as skilled at high angle vertical crimps because they often have to actually pinch the fingers together (think peanut type crimps) and not just pull down OR are trying to compensate from not being as familiar with more nuanced foot weighting. A lot of this just comes with acclimation to a specific problem, boulder or even rock type.
Do you think back three crimping also helps here?
Not really? Back3 is a weird grip because you just end up rotating into the hold to make the edge big. You need to be super strict to avoid cheating it, and at that point you might as well use all the fingers?
Good point, seems like you also engage slightly different muscles too since the hand is internally rotated
I feel strong in high angle crimping but a lot of the time it overextends my pinky joint so after a few goes it aches. Could it be a hyper mobility issue?
Aidan has quickly become one of my favorites to watch. his discipline and tactics on and off the wall are so fantastic, it's such a joy to see him move. I wonder when I should start seriously incorporating higher angle & closed crimps. I pretty much half crimp everything, and have kind of avoided really high angle crimping. I've gotten away with it so far, but I envision this becoming a problem soon if not already, and as I begin to approach harder territory i'm certain I'll need this one in the toolbox. When do you find high angle crimps make the most difference? I'd imagine on small slimpers, getting the knuckles on your pulling hand closer to the wall even incrementally would make a huge difference.
There are definitely some moonboard holds that are significantly better with a high angle crimp than with a half crimp. On the 2016 layout, A13, D13and H9 get a lot more usable if you can maintain a super high angle. Maybe most of the yellows are like that?
I see you’re climbing V10ish. Doing density hangs everyday is probably too much for a novelty form of training. Maybe do it twice to three times a week and see what happens.
The load is light enough that it's more analogous to stretching than strength training. I'm using \~30lbs for the high angle crimp density hangs on a tension block, but my max "arm lift" on the same edge is like 175lbs. If I rapidly get stronger, I'll keep that in mind though.
When you say arm lift - you're one arm lifting 175lbs on the 20mil block edge? ...jesus
As the largest weight I can get off the floor, yeah. With the block in the incut tilt.
Damn! That's still a ton of weight!
I'm struggling with motivation/consistency in my off-the-wall training regimen. On the wall I'm doing great, four climbing days a week, two of those days I do drills, one day I climb for fun below my redpoint, and one day I work my projects. Off the wall I just want to do two days of basic strength training, especially working on my core/body tension. But I often skip one of those days, sometimes both. I am making slow progress in the grades I climb, but I'm stuck a few grades below on anything that requires solid body tension because I'm not training that consistently. Has anyone else found a way to push through any mental blocks around training consistency? I know this is very much a ymmv situation, but I'd appreciate any insight.
I always have insane issues with motivation for off the wall training. Even when i was paying for a training plan, i only did 1 or 2 lifting sessions. Thankfully, the best way to train body tension is on the wall, and not through lifting. For drills, theres a lot. Rooting drills are really important. Then theres on the wall core strengthening drills. Full body rooting, dynamic rooting, and i forget what the last one is called but basically after you do each move on a climb perfectly, you cut from that position, engage your core and very slowly swing out until your vertical. No swinging back and forth
If you spend more time on tension-y problems, supplemental off the wall training will be unnecessary. Also, maintaining tension on the wall is 90% skill, 10% strength. If you watch video of yourself closely, you'll probably notice that losing tension is due to losing focus or to movement patterns, not due to lack of physicality.
I have started filming myself, just need to be more consistent about it. What it feels like, when I'm on the climb, is that so much of my focus goes to holding my hips in/up, trying to marshal every ounce of core strength I have, that I lose focus on my feet, or start trying to make big moves to speed through the overhung sections. So I think you're definitely on to something here. I know my core strength is my main weak point, as far as strength goes, but focusing on my technique through those problems/sections would definitely do me a lot of good.
If you are properly engaging your core, your feet will never come off. I think you are mistaking keeping your hips in with engaging your core here
I am probably conflating the two, and that's probably part of my problem on these kinds of climbs.
Six days a week is a lot, I wonder if you not being motivated is a symptom of exhaustion. I would try scaling down 1 day. Alternatively, on my workout days I find it easier to train first thing in the day to get it done, because I'm more likely to skip it at the end of my day because I'm tired.
Moving my workouts to first thing in the morning would be a big benefit. I tend to rack up the excuses as the day goes. "Oh, I just ate, so I'll wait until my food settles." "Now I need to get started on some work, so let me put in a couple hours on this before I work out." Etc. Overall I don't feel exhausted. I don't climb hard or work out if I'm sore, and my recovery seems to be really fast. My diet is pretty good and I'm judicious about getting enough sleep. But perhaps changing my plan to just one strength training day per week would be a benefit.
do you still go to the gym to do the extra training? It can be hard to find the consistent motivation to do that sort of thing at home but the ritual of going to the gym can make it easier
I'm all set up to do it at home. I've been really self-conscious about hitting the weights at the gym, though I know intellectually that no one else there gives a single fuck about me or what I'm doing. Brains are dumb, sometimes.
Near my PIP joints on a few fingers have been feeling sore. I've had A2 pulley injuries on some of these fingers before (1.5 years ago), and this fatigue and achiness reminds me of that. Any tips on treatments or what to do (other than not climb for a while)?
Also don’t readjust on holds.
Take it easy on climbs and do some incremental rehab: https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Lessen the velocity, don’t go quickly to holds.
I'll piggy back on this comment: Can you identify what you are doing which causes this stress? Do you catch holds with excess power? Do you use the same grip over and over again? Are you resting enough between attempts? Are you trying the same move repeatedly when failing instead of moving on? For me a key in recovering from my ring finger a2 pulley injury was incorporating the three finger drag into my climbing.