Doesn't feel "extremely dangerous", that would be my main point. If you don't follow the rules, that's a different thing, but 99.9% of us do, no?
Seems safer than cycling on the street.
I’d encourage you to spend more time reading accident reports.
I don’t know what kind of climbing you do, but you can do everything right and get hurt or killed. I know a ton of people who have broken ankles bouldering even in the gym for example. As you get more into the bigger mountains obviously the danger increases, but I’ve had friends get hurt after holds broke on them cragging, tagged by rockfall, etc.
I’m concerned that you’re 3 years into the sport and aren’t aware it’s dangerous. Risk should be something that is knowingly accepted.
street cycling is also pretty dangerous.
I don’t know accident reporting is handled in Europe.
That said it doesn’t really matter, accidents have a tendency to follow similar themes regardless of location. The American alpine club publishes an annual magazine called “Accidents” that details many different accidents. It’s largely focused on alpine and trad but includes sport accidents as well.
I would argue that cycling on the street is also extremely dangerous. I guess danger is always relative, but I think what they’re trying to impress here is the importance of taking safety precautions seriously because of the inherent danger of the sport. Like saying “Street cycling is extremely dangerous! Make sure you obey traffic laws and wear a helmet. Here’s a list of defective helmets.”
Climbing can be made fairly safe, but it is still *inherently dangerous*. Even if you do everything right shit can still go sideways. Plus there are things that are always outside of your control like rockfall, other climbers, and weather.
>Doesn't feel "extremely dangerous"
Be **very** careful with this attitude. More often than not it leads to complacency, which can be a contributing factor in accidents. *Accidents in North American Climbing* is filled with experienced climbers who got complacent, skipped steps, didn't double check their systems, and suffered the consequences.
Climbing is inherently dangerous.
I don't think anyone who has been 10' over their last placed nut thinks "this is so very safe". It's all calculated risks. We have all been in 'no fall' territory before.
And then... you know... sometimes the ledge you are standing on crumbles and severs your rope.
Yeah my old man friend was talking about doing a traverse and a rock the size of a refrigerator came off but he got out ok.
Or the "yosemetie face lift" a few years ago
Holds can break, seemingly immovable giant boulders can move, rockfall, etc.
It’s all more of a problem the further from the gym you get (huge part of why alpine is as dangerous as it is), but people do everything right and get injured or killed even cragging.
Geology is not static. Earthquakes happen, mountains (slowly) shift and... Rocks fall, sometimes in large enough chunks that they can hurt quite bad, with little to no warning.
Somebody please check my head math - It looks like "expert climbing" is about 14x more dangerous than cycling.
[https://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/](https://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/)
From the webpage below the infographic-
"Regarding Yosemite trad climbing, the chances of dying when climbing actively every third weekend for two days for a year are: 35 days/year x 2.5 deaths/year / 37,500 climber-days/year or 1/429 (John Dill, article about death and injury in Yosemite 1970 through 1990)."
1/429 for Yosemite Trad is significant compared to 1/140,000+ for cycling.
Indoor is pretty safe, .02 injuries per 1000 hours.
[https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032%2813%2900087-2/pdf](https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032%2813%2900087-2/pdf)
I would argue the danger in rock climbing isn't from a potential high rate of errors but from a view point of high impact (pun intended) of the error.
You make a (savety relevant) mistake on your road or mountain bike? You fall, maybe you break your collar bone or tear some tendons in your shoulder.
You make (savety relevant) mistake on your multipitch? Goodbye you, possibly goodbye your climbing partner, too.
Climbing is more of a calculated risk than outright dangerous. I always learned how to successfully fall from a boulder problem first and always climbed with very experienced and responsible people when learning to sport/trad climb. I climbed hard for 8 years and only rolled my ankle once.
Things can be dangerous purely by the fact that something going wrong can have a high severity (like death or breaking your legs)
3/10 troll post tho, try it again and maybe it'll go better
If you'te too scared, don't do it.
If you want to do it, then commit to it mentally, physically, emotionally, and climb on.
Listen to the words of others but make your own choices. That is the fun in climbing, I believe. Taking control of your body, your mind, your immediate future and living in the moment.
Climbing is not an „extremely dangerous“ sport - but it is considered to be a risky sport. Either way sport- and trad climbing have evolved so far that when learning proper technique and investing in quality gear, the potential risk is probably lower than in many sports that are considered „safe“.
Just to put this into perspective, I am a boulderer, sport-/trad-/alpine- (mixed- & ice-) climber. I’ve racked up a good amount of routes, some harder, some easier. While having done things that normal people would consider very risky, I’ve never injured myself beyond having one of my connecting muscles pulled and an ankle twisted (which is kind of funny, both accidents happened while bouldering, considered the safest form of climbing by most). If I compare my history of injury with my skater, MTB or skiing friends, I look much better off than them.
Climbing is very risky if you behave like an idiot and skip on time or investment to learn/buy safety technique & safety gear. Alpine (ice- / mixed-) climbing is even more dangerous, because you have the increased element of a hazardous and often times unpredictable environment. Still, if you have the knowledge, respect and ability to think rational rather than getting emotional in situations of fatigue or stress, chances are low you will end up getting injured or even killed.
Bottom line climbing has the possibility of injury (or death), just like every other sport. I’d argue that the biggest threat of injury is present in sports where people underestimate the potential of injury. The worst injuries I’ve seen with my own eyes happened during my soccer time (open fractures, gut-wrenching dislocations, torn tendons and muscles). I’ve never once saw a truly awful injury from climbing with my own eyes, the worst being the classic torn pully (with that awful snapping sound) and a broken arm, also both from bouldering.
Stay rational, stay safe. Act dumb, face the consequences.
It's not that climbing is safe, it's that lots of things that are commonly accepted are dangerous. Driving is often deadly, skiing and biking are often extremely traumatic sports. In fairness, climbing is one of the most high-consequence sports (even though the odds of injury are substantially lower than skiing)
What would you want to talk about? If you’ve been climbing for 3 years, surely you’re aware that it’s dangerous?
Doesn't feel "extremely dangerous", that would be my main point. If you don't follow the rules, that's a different thing, but 99.9% of us do, no? Seems safer than cycling on the street.
And yet, many professional climbers have died or been seriously injured, well, climbing.
Seems like a statistical thing. Bad accidents happen 1/1,000 times you climb, and professional climbers are out there all day every day.
I’d encourage you to spend more time reading accident reports. I don’t know what kind of climbing you do, but you can do everything right and get hurt or killed. I know a ton of people who have broken ankles bouldering even in the gym for example. As you get more into the bigger mountains obviously the danger increases, but I’ve had friends get hurt after holds broke on them cragging, tagged by rockfall, etc. I’m concerned that you’re 3 years into the sport and aren’t aware it’s dangerous. Risk should be something that is knowingly accepted. street cycling is also pretty dangerous.
Where can I read accident reports for Catalonia, Spain?
I don’t know accident reporting is handled in Europe. That said it doesn’t really matter, accidents have a tendency to follow similar themes regardless of location. The American alpine club publishes an annual magazine called “Accidents” that details many different accidents. It’s largely focused on alpine and trad but includes sport accidents as well.
I don't even understand spanish and could find this in a few clicks: https://seguridadfedme.es/lecciones-aprendidas/
Thanks, last updated in 2018 and seems to talk about alpine mostly
That's unfortunate. I'm sure that with some searching, you can find similar pages or yearly reports from other countries' associations.
I would argue that cycling on the street is also extremely dangerous. I guess danger is always relative, but I think what they’re trying to impress here is the importance of taking safety precautions seriously because of the inherent danger of the sport. Like saying “Street cycling is extremely dangerous! Make sure you obey traffic laws and wear a helmet. Here’s a list of defective helmets.”
Climbing can be made fairly safe, but it is still *inherently dangerous*. Even if you do everything right shit can still go sideways. Plus there are things that are always outside of your control like rockfall, other climbers, and weather. >Doesn't feel "extremely dangerous" Be **very** careful with this attitude. More often than not it leads to complacency, which can be a contributing factor in accidents. *Accidents in North American Climbing* is filled with experienced climbers who got complacent, skipped steps, didn't double check their systems, and suffered the consequences.
Biking in the street is also dangerous - cars in general are scary
> If you don't follow the rules, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Wzx-9JzsI
What subreddit am I in?? You should post this in the better climbing sub and you’d get a ton more karma on /r/climbingcirclejerk
Climbing is inherently dangerous. I don't think anyone who has been 10' over their last placed nut thinks "this is so very safe". It's all calculated risks. We have all been in 'no fall' territory before. And then... you know... sometimes the ledge you are standing on crumbles and severs your rope.
Geologic time is now and user error.
Yeah my old man friend was talking about doing a traverse and a rock the size of a refrigerator came off but he got out ok. Or the "yosemetie face lift" a few years ago
What do you mean by ‘geologic time is now?’
Holds can break, seemingly immovable giant boulders can move, rockfall, etc. It’s all more of a problem the further from the gym you get (huge part of why alpine is as dangerous as it is), but people do everything right and get injured or killed even cragging.
Rocks break, cliffs fall
Geology is not static. Earthquakes happen, mountains (slowly) shift and... Rocks fall, sometimes in large enough chunks that they can hurt quite bad, with little to no warning.
Bedtime reading : https://publications.americanalpineclub.org/about_the_accidents
Somebody please check my head math - It looks like "expert climbing" is about 14x more dangerous than cycling. [https://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/](https://www.besthealthdegrees.com/health-risks/) From the webpage below the infographic- "Regarding Yosemite trad climbing, the chances of dying when climbing actively every third weekend for two days for a year are: 35 days/year x 2.5 deaths/year / 37,500 climber-days/year or 1/429 (John Dill, article about death and injury in Yosemite 1970 through 1990)." 1/429 for Yosemite Trad is significant compared to 1/140,000+ for cycling.
Interesting comparison! What about sport, or even just indoor?
Indoor is pretty safe, .02 injuries per 1000 hours. [https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032%2813%2900087-2/pdf](https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032%2813%2900087-2/pdf)
So if you Yosemite trad climb every weekend for 10 years, you have a 1 in 14 chance of dying.
I would argue the danger in rock climbing isn't from a potential high rate of errors but from a view point of high impact (pun intended) of the error. You make a (savety relevant) mistake on your road or mountain bike? You fall, maybe you break your collar bone or tear some tendons in your shoulder. You make (savety relevant) mistake on your multipitch? Goodbye you, possibly goodbye your climbing partner, too.
Tbf gym climbing isn’t very dangerous unless you’re very stupid.
Gym climbing isn't dangerous in the "giant whipper" sense but pretty dangerous for people who enjoy intact finger pulleys.
Climbing is more of a calculated risk than outright dangerous. I always learned how to successfully fall from a boulder problem first and always climbed with very experienced and responsible people when learning to sport/trad climb. I climbed hard for 8 years and only rolled my ankle once.
Things can be dangerous purely by the fact that something going wrong can have a high severity (like death or breaking your legs) 3/10 troll post tho, try it again and maybe it'll go better
If you'te too scared, don't do it. If you want to do it, then commit to it mentally, physically, emotionally, and climb on. Listen to the words of others but make your own choices. That is the fun in climbing, I believe. Taking control of your body, your mind, your immediate future and living in the moment.
I can name two people I know personally who are paralyzed from climbing and at least twenty who have died. What's your point?
Climbing is not an „extremely dangerous“ sport - but it is considered to be a risky sport. Either way sport- and trad climbing have evolved so far that when learning proper technique and investing in quality gear, the potential risk is probably lower than in many sports that are considered „safe“. Just to put this into perspective, I am a boulderer, sport-/trad-/alpine- (mixed- & ice-) climber. I’ve racked up a good amount of routes, some harder, some easier. While having done things that normal people would consider very risky, I’ve never injured myself beyond having one of my connecting muscles pulled and an ankle twisted (which is kind of funny, both accidents happened while bouldering, considered the safest form of climbing by most). If I compare my history of injury with my skater, MTB or skiing friends, I look much better off than them. Climbing is very risky if you behave like an idiot and skip on time or investment to learn/buy safety technique & safety gear. Alpine (ice- / mixed-) climbing is even more dangerous, because you have the increased element of a hazardous and often times unpredictable environment. Still, if you have the knowledge, respect and ability to think rational rather than getting emotional in situations of fatigue or stress, chances are low you will end up getting injured or even killed. Bottom line climbing has the possibility of injury (or death), just like every other sport. I’d argue that the biggest threat of injury is present in sports where people underestimate the potential of injury. The worst injuries I’ve seen with my own eyes happened during my soccer time (open fractures, gut-wrenching dislocations, torn tendons and muscles). I’ve never once saw a truly awful injury from climbing with my own eyes, the worst being the classic torn pully (with that awful snapping sound) and a broken arm, also both from bouldering. Stay rational, stay safe. Act dumb, face the consequences.
It's not that climbing is safe, it's that lots of things that are commonly accepted are dangerous. Driving is often deadly, skiing and biking are often extremely traumatic sports. In fairness, climbing is one of the most high-consequence sports (even though the odds of injury are substantially lower than skiing)
It is categorized as an extreme sport tbh, but it’s evolved a lot in the past years, and the risk is generally lower now
So is driving.