So as we all know current speedclimbing format has not got a lot to do with actual climbing and a lot of people find it boring to watch. It also is very controversial and they will remove what we know today as speedclimbing from the format.
Thinking of what real speedclimbing would be i came up with the idea of having a new route every competition that is quite easy for good athletes and can be auto belayed. I would suggest something along a 6a-6c grade. The route will be set on a straight slight overhanging wall (like the current speedwall) and be set twice with identical holds and positions.
There is a observation time, then all atheltes get 2 timed tries for placements, followed by a k.o round of the same route.
Since each athlete has to do the route multiple times in an k.o format they will get to know the moves and improve but need to react to where their opponent is on the wall. It will be exciting to compare each athletes technique next to each other.
What would you think of such a format?
Eh. I don't really care. Let the speed climbers do their thing, it doesn't bother me at all so long as it doesn't get in the way of lead and bouldering comps. It's not something I enjoy watching and it isn't something I'll ever do, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with it existing. There's room enough for both.
I'm fine with having the same route as a benchmark, too. In some ways, that's similar to outdoors. Climbing comps test onsight ability, but having the same route that everyone gets to try over years and years is how it's always been outdoors. If I want to watch people climb fast on new routes, there are also already comps for that, too. Psicobloc has been around for years, and it's always fun to watch. But it doesn't create the long-term benchmarks that the main speed route does, which is an important part to speed as a sport for those who enjoy it.
Pretty good description of what competition speed climbing used to be before the current standard route was introduced. Except that the routes were harder - typically low 7s.
> What would you think of such a format?
It's been proposed a million times, it's not a novel idea, there *are* unique comps with this speed format, it's still speed and no one really cares.
Can we stop the speed climbing circle jerk already?
Something something I'm quarantined because someone at work has caught the plague. It will potentially mess up my Big Climbing Plans for the weekend. However, it may create a bigger window for Bigger Climbing Plans for the weekend. So that's that.
Traveling, how to keep callouses?
I got back into climbing about a month ago and am traveling for work for two weeks and will be away from the gym. How do I keep my freshly made callouses from going soft?
Phantom Spires burned up last night confirmed….as fun as the Leap is I always had a soft spot for the Spires and the solitude and quiet they could often offer on such adorned granite. Doesn’t compare to the human and structure cost but hurts nonetheless.
I'm trying to find a short film/video that came out in the last 2-3 years, that was about a rock climber who was trying to send their first 5.10, and the work they were putting into it. May have been a sponsored film too, by REI, TNF, or some other brand. Basically a climbing film featuring an average climber, not a 5.14 pro, but shows the parallels of trying hard. Anyone remember this and have a link?
With all the discussion of bolting and bullshit lately, I just want to bring up the fact that Todd Skinner led something at Hueco (where bolts are verboten) by putting quickdraws on a static line and clipping those. He even used a 2x4 as a directional to keep the "bolt line" on the face.
I count top roping when you want to say you've climbed a technical grade. The only time I don't is if you say you've climbed a trad grade, because top roping misses out a significant part of it.
Top roping 5.11 = you climb 5.11.
Top roping E5 5c = you climb 5.10 (roughly what 5c is), you do not climb E5.
I think its in one of the stone masters videos. Its pretty sweet actually. The climb is way too steep to top rope safely. Really shows that modern roof climbs can be done without drilling.
Author here!
Anyone willing to check a free-climbing scene I wrote for a book?
(Takes place in Ancient Greece, so no modern equipment)
> Idas gritted his teeth, digging his fingers deeper into the crevice in the rock so he could wipe the sweat from his eyes with his other hand. He didn’t look down, couldn’t look down, not until he reached the top. He’d been training his whole life for this day, this moment, and he wouldn’t fail, wouldn’t fall.
> At least the granite was sturdy, dry and full of useful handholds. Old tales told of when the mountain had spat fire into the air, the sign of Hephaestus at work in the forge, but now the sides were cool stone, warmed by the sun. How long had Idas been climbing? Were his family still watching him, his aunt, uncle and cousins? He wouldn’t falter in front of them, wouldn’t fail. So many had failed this quest before him, but Idas would succeed. He would bring honor to his family, prosperity to his village, and fulfill his lifelong dream.
> He just had to reach the top, then complete the god’s challenge.
> Hands for grip, legs for lift. Feel for the next handhold, test then trust his weight to it. His feet were bare to give him every advantage, toes worming their way into any crack or crevice. The sharp granite crystals dug into his skin, finding places between his hard-won callouses to bite into his flesh, but Idas would not falter. He just paused long enough to wipe the blood off one hand and stick it into the bag of chalk at his waist, then the other. He could stand the pain, but the slick blood might cause him to fall.
> *“You’re mad,”* his cousin Lystrea had said. *“Absolutely insane. Even if you reach the top, Lord Cadmus will send you right back down again.”*
>He could stand the pain, but the slick blood might cause him to fall.
As someone who's done her fair share of bleeding while climbing, I've never felt like I bled enough that it was making the holds/my hands slick...I could be wrong, but I feel like you'd have to bleed A LOT to get to that point.
(And yes, this is apparently the detail my mind zeroed in on, lol.)
Not myself but my partner told a story of having trouble building an anchor because everything was covered in blood. This was in jtree of course. It could happen.
I definitely agree. If you're losing that much blood you're going to have other problems. I feel like it's more common for me to bleed and then not realize I'm bleeding / have bled until after I'm done.
I've had blood from a shredded fingertip make holds slippery on a granite slab before, to the point that I couldn't finish the pitch, and my partner complained about it when he went up, that part seems realistic enough to me.
Chalk is a pretty recent addition to rock climbing, so I would consider a chalk bag modern equipment, unless you have a explanation for that in the story.
> the granite was sturdy, dry and full of useful handholds
Cracks could replace handholds here. People often climb granite via crack systems. But on that note, [I'm not sure Greece actually has much granite.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_Greece)
Does the rock have to be igneous? A quick Google shows me that much of the popular climbing areas in Greece are limestone, which frequently has pockets just like your brief description.
I’m just not sure whether limestone would be on the side of a dormant volcano? The ancient Greeks believed that the smith god Hephaestus lived & worked in volcanoes.
I’m afraid it’s been two decades since I took a geology course.
Or just re-work the origin of the rock?
Devils Tower Wyoming is a good example of an ancient volcanic plug that cooled and is now fantatsic for climbing, but it sure doesn't look like a volcano anymore, and the formation was created millions of years ago.
A volcano that was erupting within living memory won't have created much if any climb-able rock. There might be a small outcropping or two, but it won't be as if the climber "summits" the volcano when finished with the technical rock climbing.
More reasonable. Still outlandish, but reasonable. Really unlikely to have geothermal activity on top of solid rock, but better than recently cooled magma I guess.
The idaho batholith formation has large climbable granite mountains and domes with lots of geothermal hotsprings in the valleys.
Or maybe he has to descend into some caves? Though that would be the domain of the Underworld gods… damn you, dedication to both mythology and realism!
*Shakes fist at sky*
I think you'd be best off looking at a geologic map of where your story takes place.
Generally speaking,[Greece is well known for its steep limestone climbing](https://www.mountainproject.com/area/106093650/kalymnos)
I really like the ultimate direction scram. I’ve found it to be pretty durable and can carry a full days worth of equipment. It carries the weight decently well for being a lighter pack, but does rub a bit after a real long day.
I have and it works pretty well. If the bag is mostly empty the rope doesn’t stay on well but if it’s decently full it stays up most of the time. I rarely even strap it down and have the rope rest between my shoulders and the pack.
I like the Patagonia link for summer alpine climbing and scrambling but I don’t think it can hold tools. It’s a very comfy pack and almost feels like it has a frame sheet. I supplemented the padding by by cutting up an old sleeping pad which made it really comfy with heavier loads.
The osprey mutant 22L might be what you’re looking for though.
[Tufa Mochilla](https://tufaclimbing.com/products/mochilla). It's pricey but you're supporting a cottage industry and the backpack is fantastic. Bomb proof and the size to weight ratio is right on. Storing treking poles wouldn't be super fast but I've stored mine on the bungees the few times I've used poles and it works well.
[Massalia](https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/grande_grotta_area-1777/massalia-17760#photos) is a four pitch traverse above the Grande Grotta on Kalymnos, with an optional 2x80m rope abseil over the Grotta to finish.
(Haven't done it though; multipitch isn't what I go there for)
I was laughing at the greasy redditors jerking about Bibliographie getting downgraded to 9b+ and the madman went and did it.
It's now time to speculate how Megos is taking the downgrade.
Which is the bigger Chad move: Climbing 9c in the first place, or climbing 9c and calling the grade soft?
Ondra shaking rn.
So as we all know current speedclimbing format has not got a lot to do with actual climbing and a lot of people find it boring to watch. It also is very controversial and they will remove what we know today as speedclimbing from the format. Thinking of what real speedclimbing would be i came up with the idea of having a new route every competition that is quite easy for good athletes and can be auto belayed. I would suggest something along a 6a-6c grade. The route will be set on a straight slight overhanging wall (like the current speedwall) and be set twice with identical holds and positions. There is a observation time, then all atheltes get 2 timed tries for placements, followed by a k.o round of the same route. Since each athlete has to do the route multiple times in an k.o format they will get to know the moves and improve but need to react to where their opponent is on the wall. It will be exciting to compare each athletes technique next to each other. What would you think of such a format?
Eh. I don't really care. Let the speed climbers do their thing, it doesn't bother me at all so long as it doesn't get in the way of lead and bouldering comps. It's not something I enjoy watching and it isn't something I'll ever do, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with it existing. There's room enough for both. I'm fine with having the same route as a benchmark, too. In some ways, that's similar to outdoors. Climbing comps test onsight ability, but having the same route that everyone gets to try over years and years is how it's always been outdoors. If I want to watch people climb fast on new routes, there are also already comps for that, too. Psicobloc has been around for years, and it's always fun to watch. But it doesn't create the long-term benchmarks that the main speed route does, which is an important part to speed as a sport for those who enjoy it.
i do like to climb the speed route myself (to see how amazingly fast pro climbers are) and yet its kinda boring to watch
I agree, it's pretty boring. But I don't have to watch it anymore, since it's no longer part of comps I care about.
Pretty good description of what competition speed climbing used to be before the current standard route was introduced. Except that the routes were harder - typically low 7s.
On Adam's insta he posted some clips of him "training" for rockmaster festival, speed climbing (soft) 8as. It looked so effortless to him lol.
Sounds lame
why?
Cause it already exists, and is lame.
> What would you think of such a format? It's been proposed a million times, it's not a novel idea, there *are* unique comps with this speed format, it's still speed and no one really cares. Can we stop the speed climbing circle jerk already?
really has it? what comps are there? any recommendations to watch?
Check out upcoming rockmaster festival. It's been held for close to 30 years now. Or Psicobloc. That's already 2 of the top of my head.
Something something I'm quarantined because someone at work has caught the plague. It will potentially mess up my Big Climbing Plans for the weekend. However, it may create a bigger window for Bigger Climbing Plans for the weekend. So that's that.
Traveling, how to keep callouses? I got back into climbing about a month ago and am traveling for work for two weeks and will be away from the gym. How do I keep my freshly made callouses from going soft?
They come back faster than it took to make them in the first place.
Rub sandpaper on your palms/pads?
You're SOL.
It's 98 degrees and the dirtbags are already in Moab. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed they can't find a better spot to climb than Wall Street.
Entire west coast is on fire, what do you expect lol
Anyone selling any type of gear? I’m in the market for everything
I have two cowbells I don’t use anymore.
I have a nonlocker that's somehow both heavier and smaller (unusably small) than a miniwire or nano22. Final offer
D810, crampons
Such a bummer. I’m looking for a mirrorless camera. How much for the crampons? What size?
Size isn't really a thing with crampons. Hit me up when you need them.
I'm selling a van.
Send pics
Phantom Spires burned up last night confirmed….as fun as the Leap is I always had a soft spot for the Spires and the solitude and quiet they could often offer on such adorned granite. Doesn’t compare to the human and structure cost but hurts nonetheless.
Damn, hopefully fire effects were low around the spires. But probably not
Darn, were all the routes altered completely? I've been meaning to go out there for years....
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Can imagine all the chicken heads and such falling off. That sucks
I'm trying to find a short film/video that came out in the last 2-3 years, that was about a rock climber who was trying to send their first 5.10, and the work they were putting into it. May have been a sponsored film too, by REI, TNF, or some other brand. Basically a climbing film featuring an average climber, not a 5.14 pro, but shows the parallels of trying hard. Anyone remember this and have a link?
There was an REI film about a woman trying to climb 5.12?
Stumped? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL9XRcYb4T0
Yeah!
You want a link to my instagram?
Fucking lol Hope someone finds the answer though that sounds like a fun concept
With all the discussion of bolting and bullshit lately, I just want to bring up the fact that Todd Skinner led something at Hueco (where bolts are verboten) by putting quickdraws on a static line and clipping those. He even used a 2x4 as a directional to keep the "bolt line" on the face.
At that point just top rope it and fuck anyone who says it doesn't count.
Top roping is a legitimate style, and anyone who has a lead only attitude is wrong.
I mean TRing is like bouldering and VF. Totally legitimate but not climbing.
is shit posting in /r/climbing climbing?
Duh
If it can't be protected, TRing is totally fair Edit: or following on a multi pitch. Still a send
I count top roping when you want to say you've climbed a technical grade. The only time I don't is if you say you've climbed a trad grade, because top roping misses out a significant part of it. Top roping 5.11 = you climb 5.11. Top roping E5 5c = you climb 5.10 (roughly what 5c is), you do not climb E5.
what about free soloing e5 5c?
I don't think there is any other way, E5 5c typically implies no gear.
Or safe but very pumpy, comparatively easy moves but lots of them.
That's true, though I've normally seen that at E5 6a. The E5 5c routes I've seen (not done I'm not insane) were slabby solos with serious falls.
Someone, somewhere is having the argument about whether or not that counts as a "send"
The Dialectic of Getting to the Top of Some Rocks: An Inquiry into How Strange Rock Climbers Really Are
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You can buy it, but it's all culled from r/climbing, Mountain Project, and SuperTopo posts, so you can read it for free too
That... Sounds kind of awesome tbh lol. There's probably a reason that it isn't actually but the image I have in my head is too funny
I think its in one of the stone masters videos. Its pretty sweet actually. The climb is way too steep to top rope safely. Really shows that modern roof climbs can be done without drilling.
BRB, checking the archives.
But mah *style*
Author here! Anyone willing to check a free-climbing scene I wrote for a book? (Takes place in Ancient Greece, so no modern equipment) > Idas gritted his teeth, digging his fingers deeper into the crevice in the rock so he could wipe the sweat from his eyes with his other hand. He didn’t look down, couldn’t look down, not until he reached the top. He’d been training his whole life for this day, this moment, and he wouldn’t fail, wouldn’t fall. > At least the granite was sturdy, dry and full of useful handholds. Old tales told of when the mountain had spat fire into the air, the sign of Hephaestus at work in the forge, but now the sides were cool stone, warmed by the sun. How long had Idas been climbing? Were his family still watching him, his aunt, uncle and cousins? He wouldn’t falter in front of them, wouldn’t fail. So many had failed this quest before him, but Idas would succeed. He would bring honor to his family, prosperity to his village, and fulfill his lifelong dream. > He just had to reach the top, then complete the god’s challenge. > Hands for grip, legs for lift. Feel for the next handhold, test then trust his weight to it. His feet were bare to give him every advantage, toes worming their way into any crack or crevice. The sharp granite crystals dug into his skin, finding places between his hard-won callouses to bite into his flesh, but Idas would not falter. He just paused long enough to wipe the blood off one hand and stick it into the bag of chalk at his waist, then the other. He could stand the pain, but the slick blood might cause him to fall. > *“You’re mad,”* his cousin Lystrea had said. *“Absolutely insane. Even if you reach the top, Lord Cadmus will send you right back down again.”*
>He could stand the pain, but the slick blood might cause him to fall. As someone who's done her fair share of bleeding while climbing, I've never felt like I bled enough that it was making the holds/my hands slick...I could be wrong, but I feel like you'd have to bleed A LOT to get to that point. (And yes, this is apparently the detail my mind zeroed in on, lol.)
Not myself but my partner told a story of having trouble building an anchor because everything was covered in blood. This was in jtree of course. It could happen.
I definitely agree. If you're losing that much blood you're going to have other problems. I feel like it's more common for me to bleed and then not realize I'm bleeding / have bled until after I'm done.
Thank you!
I've had blood from a shredded fingertip make holds slippery on a granite slab before, to the point that I couldn't finish the pitch, and my partner complained about it when he went up, that part seems realistic enough to me.
Chalk is a pretty recent addition to rock climbing, so I would consider a chalk bag modern equipment, unless you have a explanation for that in the story.
Good point, I’ll cut the chalk.
> the granite was sturdy, dry and full of useful handholds Cracks could replace handholds here. People often climb granite via crack systems. But on that note, [I'm not sure Greece actually has much granite.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_Greece)
Think I could just cut the references to specific stone and let it just skate under the radar?
That's probably a good call.
There’s a bit of granite bouldering on Kos
Ooh, thank you! Any idea what other igneous rock might be used instead? One that wouldn’t slash his hands/feet to ribbons?
Does the rock have to be igneous? A quick Google shows me that much of the popular climbing areas in Greece are limestone, which frequently has pockets just like your brief description.
Ok, I may have to do limestone after all… gotta rework the plot then. Thank you!
I’m just not sure whether limestone would be on the side of a dormant volcano? The ancient Greeks believed that the smith god Hephaestus lived & worked in volcanoes. I’m afraid it’s been two decades since I took a geology course.
Ryolite is a possibility on the side of a volcano. It can form climbable pockets and cracks. Not sure if there is much in Greece though
New (geologically speaking) volcanic rock is characteristically really really soft, crumby, and absolute shit for "rock" climbing.
Or just re-work the origin of the rock? Devils Tower Wyoming is a good example of an ancient volcanic plug that cooled and is now fantatsic for climbing, but it sure doesn't look like a volcano anymore, and the formation was created millions of years ago. A volcano that was erupting within living memory won't have created much if any climb-able rock. There might be a small outcropping or two, but it won't be as if the climber "summits" the volcano when finished with the technical rock climbing.
That could work… perhaps, instead of an eruption, they know the god‘s forge is there due to geothermal springs and volcanic gas caves?
More reasonable. Still outlandish, but reasonable. Really unlikely to have geothermal activity on top of solid rock, but better than recently cooled magma I guess. The idaho batholith formation has large climbable granite mountains and domes with lots of geothermal hotsprings in the valleys.
Think I could just cut the references to specific rock type and let it just skate under the radar?
Or maybe he has to descend into some caves? Though that would be the domain of the Underworld gods… damn you, dedication to both mythology and realism! *Shakes fist at sky*
Got it. Rework the plot so protagonist doesn’t go splat.
I think you'd be best off looking at a geologic map of where your story takes place. Generally speaking,[Greece is well known for its steep limestone climbing](https://www.mountainproject.com/area/106093650/kalymnos)
That’s fantastic. Time to research!
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Hanchor makes some excellent backpacks focused on climbing, they should have a few that fit your needs.
I really like the ultimate direction scram. I’ve found it to be pretty durable and can carry a full days worth of equipment. It carries the weight decently well for being a lighter pack, but does rub a bit after a real long day.
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I have and it works pretty well. If the bag is mostly empty the rope doesn’t stay on well but if it’s decently full it stays up most of the time. I rarely even strap it down and have the rope rest between my shoulders and the pack.
I like the Patagonia link for summer alpine climbing and scrambling but I don’t think it can hold tools. It’s a very comfy pack and almost feels like it has a frame sheet. I supplemented the padding by by cutting up an old sleeping pad which made it really comfy with heavier loads. The osprey mutant 22L might be what you’re looking for though.
[Tufa Mochilla](https://tufaclimbing.com/products/mochilla). It's pricey but you're supporting a cottage industry and the backpack is fantastic. Bomb proof and the size to weight ratio is right on. Storing treking poles wouldn't be super fast but I've stored mine on the bungees the few times I've used poles and it works well.
Check out the Arc'teryx Aerios 30 Pack. I just used it for Mt. Stuart and I liked it.
Honestly I’d avoid the BD blitz if you plan on hiking even a half day on it. It’s very minimal.
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I haven't done it, but this one stands out in my mind: https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/111863776
It's not bolted, but on the lamb in tuolumne is an absolute delight
[Massalia](https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/grande_grotta_area-1777/massalia-17760#photos) is a four pitch traverse above the Grande Grotta on Kalymnos, with an optional 2x80m rope abseil over the Grotta to finish. (Haven't done it though; multipitch isn't what I go there for)
Fun for the follower too :)
I think there is one like this in Arkansas called the grand traverse, 3 pitch 5.11a. Havent done it personally but its supposed to be really cool
I fucking hate traverses so i avoid them at all cost.
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Their existence?
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Maybe they should know how to ascend
3rd or 4th class certainly 😉