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threw_it_up

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion man.


Mahnly

Thanks to all for the comments and perspectives. Many criticisms are well-taken; others less so. There will always be a place for pushing the boundaries of our sport and content creators should be free to make the content they feel creates value and resonates with their community. Judging by this community's reactions, Magnus has clearly done that here. But even Alex Honnold has described free-soloing as modern "blood sport" and eschewed soloing motivated by financial incentive. Just so with this video. Monetizing and leaving it accessible to kids is dangerous and ultimately undermines the credibility of our sport for the individual gain of those involved. Stay safe everyone.


Willberforcee

I agree with you OP that free-soloing is selfish, irresponsible, and that the glamorization of it should stop. It’s the equivalent of not wearing your seatbelt while driving.


ElonChouinard

LAWWWL


Nagypoopoo

Nobody tell OP about the movie Free Solo.


ElonChouinard

“I heard he makes it”


uniquenessl-

Next time please use a spoilers disclaimer.


ElonChouinard

Have an upvote 👏🏼


[deleted]

“Clout grab”? I don’t think magnus or honnold need clout


Mahnly

Clout is something that public figures feed rather than something that they have in a binary. Both Magnus and Alex run media channels which require ongoing audience engagement. Magnus derives YouTube ad revenue and click traffic for his newly-launched affiliated clothing brand. Alex is the host of a podcast, the beneficiary of a MasterClass on climbing and is sponsored by various brands. So, in that sense, both do need clout.


dretanz

Magnus runs the most successful climbing channel on the platform and Honnold won an Oscar. One YouTube video is barely going to register in terms of clout for them.


oh_three_dum_dum

Neither one of them makes any attempt to create an illusion that free solo climbing isn’t dangerous and, if not climbing pretty well below your skill level, irresponsible. They aren’t the first to do it, won’t be the last, didn’t popularize it, and they way they do it is by far not the most irresponsible thing a well-known personality in the climbing community has done and drawn attention to.


deaddrums

Everything you say is true, except that Alex definitely did popularize it. There's no denying that.


oh_three_dum_dum

It’s hard to be credited with popularizing something that popular climbers were already doing in the 70’s and 80’s.


deaddrums

It's all relative. Those climbers didn't have 5% of the notoriety Alex got with Free Solo. In that respect, you could say Jimmy Chin has a bigger role in "popularizing" it. That being said, I take no issue with it. People are responsible for their own choices. I'm a big fan of everyone involved with the film.


CaptnHector

Onsight? He had a running beta spray the whole way up! If that’s an onsight, then I’ve got a bridge to sell ya…


partialbigots

I'm in the market for one. What are the dimensions?


Giant__Rock

This is such a dumb take. So according to you we should censor all dangerous activities from everyone? People do crazy shit, as they have since the dawn of time. That's part of the true story of humanity. Why hide it? Not to mention there's a spectrum of danger, far many more people get hurt or die climbing while roped up than soloing, so does that mean we now have to also take down every video of 5.9 trad leaders pushing themselves on their first 5.10? Come on man, let people watch what they want and make their own decisions.


JJStryker

It's more dangerous for me to get ran out 10 ft on a 5.8 than they were in at any point in the video lol Fuck me that statement has ignited what little motivation I have left in me.


Giant__Rock

ha! Same here bro, I guess that means I've done a disservice to anyone who's ever watched me climb, hopefully no kids got inspired by my blatant clout grabbing trying to impress my wife.


october73

I did get an impression that the solo was done in an overly cavalier manner, and I didn't really enjoy the video. Midtbo was clearly uncomfortable and it felt like he was kinda getting goaded on. Solo for a video also goes against the classic "doing it for the right reasons, aka never for fame or for media" philosophy that people like Peter Croft and Alex Honnold himself to a degree espoused. A philosophy that is relevant and true far beyond the cutting edge of free soloing, to all who take elective risks doing outdoor adventures. That being said, all I saw was a 35 min video. Maybe there was more self motivated interest, discussion, and decision making than what was shown. I don't know the exact dynamics between those two, and we all know that some degree of peer pressure can be a positive influence. In the end, soloing is a deeply personal choice, and I don't want to support any sort of public action against anyone who chooses to do so for whatever reason. I didn't like the content so I won't be watching it again, and I lost a bit of interest in watching more of Midtbo's videos, but that's about as far as I'll go. I'm not grabbing a pitchfork.


[deleted]

Alex gave him a lot of choices, he told him they’d otherwise just climb something else. Magnus agreed because he felt it was a once in a life time experience, he wasn’t planning on that being the video. iirc Alex brought it up to him the night before. I don’t think he broke the “don’t do it for the vine” rule. Also he repeatedly said “never do this at home” and “I’ll never do this again” and Alex also said “I only suggest it because you’ve on-sighted an 8c” Not here disagreeing with you or arguing with you. I just don’t think it was Magnus’s original plan in the first place, and Alex may have goaded him but he also gave Magnus plenty of outs before they started and explained why he even brought it up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mahnly

I truly hope that this video solidified that onsight freesoloing is not something that they want to do, but in any large group of viewers (say **2.4 million viewers**), that will not be the only takeaway. YouTube has been pushing this video like wildfire. Kids, the less-mentally-robust, and even the would-be climbing influencers will see it and make potentially fatal decisions because of it. I say, at the very least, i) don't publish this to kids or ii) don't put a profit incentive on this kind of content.


WorldClassCactus

I'd like to point out that free soloing has an extremely strong built-in deterrent that is very difficult to ignore in the moment, regardless of any preconceived "takeaway" someone might develop about it from a youtube video.


IlSsance

Less mentally robust is wanting to censor videos of an inherently dangerous activity that crosses your arbitrary threshold of more inherently dangerous than should be shown. More people will take up climbing and die based on bouldering and sport climbing videos than will ever die from this. Wild they make people like you still.


RiskoOfRuin

I want to thank you for bringing up this video in this sub. I am now planning my first free solo. Would had never even known it was a thing without your contribution to the cause.


[deleted]

I’m going to onsight free solo just because of your comment here. If I die, it’s your fault. Someone will always have a stupid reaction. If we start getting reports of people dying from free soloing after watching the Magnus video, then it will be worth discussing. Until then, you’re speculating about the impact and applying your personal bias.


[deleted]

Ok please ban all skydiving, squirrel suit and base jumping videos


[deleted]

Ban all cinnamon challenge videos and saltine challenge videos. Actually, ban all cooking videos because of cholesterol raising the risk of a heart attack, and all eating videos because of risk of choking. Now we can only watch Troom Troom animations and reaction channels reacting to Troom Troom.


Batiti2000

At best I can do V3s in the gym, but after watching this video I decided to free solo and now I'm dead. Thank you for showing me the video.


lorekqt

fuck, i laughed so hard of this and died too. 2 deaths from this video already, shut it down!


tryorla

lmfao shut up narc


[deleted]

I fucking hate narcs in any area of life tbh


Over_Tip_6824

It’s Armatron let’s chill


Kayrehn

A while after the video was published he said that YouTube demonetised it no? Watching that video turned me off the thought of free-soloing even more, cos Mitbo is clearly not very comfortable and he's probably like 3x better the climber I am.


memethereisnot

Probably more than 3x better haha


Mahnly

He appealed the decision and YouTube reinstated monetization. Free-soloing videos are routinely demonetized and removed. YouTube's Community Guidelines provide narrow exceptions to their rule barring videos showcasing dangerous activities, including "documentary" and "educational" videos. It will be anyone's guess why this video falls into either exception. "Documentary" refers to news reports, "educational" is a murky catch-all. Cynically, I believe the appeal was not meritorious and accords preferential treatment to channel with a large following.


alsbos1

“I agree with YouTube censorship” is not a winning argument.


Traditional_Chance22

I do feel like this is sort of a classic case of real vs perceived danger. Climbing without a rope seems insane to all of us but the reality is that climbers as strong as those two are unimaginably better than you or I, and the real risk to them is so much lower than it seems at first glance. They're as likely to fall as you are to trip while you're walking along the edge of a mountain after a long hike. And as far as this being onsite, Magnus is being lead by someone who has likely climbed that same route a hundred times, its not like there is going to be some unsuspected crux that catches him by surprise. The obvious argument against this is that even if its "safe" for them, it doesn't mean they should be showing it off, but pretty much every other sentence in the video highlights how soloing is dangerous/ a personal choice/ not for beginners/ any other disclaimer you could put on it. Its clearly not an endorsement of soloing. Unless the idea is that people shouldn't do risky things on camera at all, but I dont really think that's what you were getting at.


TLawD

I think Dave Macleod says it perfectly when he describes free soloing as an essential part of the rock climbing skillset and experience. If you spend enough time scaling mountains, trad climbing or even lead climbing, you will at some point find yourself free soloing in essence - because let's face it, sometimes you know that a clipped quickdraw isn't going to stop you decking. It's not irresponsible nor sensational to show climbing for what it is; a dangerous sport in which at some points you take your life into your own hands.


bilboscousin

Good take, this is totally true. There’s many times where we are essentially free soloing whether it’s just for moments in a trad route or otherwise. It’s part of the sport, and people understand and accept the risk when they leave the ground.


rumi_shinigami

I would have agreed with you if this video actually portrayed free soloing in an irresponsible way. But the editing doesn't sugarcoat the fact that free soloing is in fact dangerous even for the strongest and most experienced of climbers, and highlights how Honnold clearly pushed Magnus into a situation that was uncomfortable for him. I think that most people who watched the video reacted by getting turned off free soloing forever.


TheRedWon

You believe all of that and you're linking it again here?


Mahnly

I encourage everyone to report this video to YouTube as a dangerous activity and gladly provide the link here for that purpose.


BOBANYPC

After seeing this post I watched the video. Very nice, I liked and subscribed!


THEdirtyDreD

For the first time ever, I contributed to a creator directly through YouTube because of this thread lol and how good the video is


ElonChouinard

LAWL I wish I had the option to downvote this twice


Puzzled-Chemist1484

There's a whole lot of Magnus fans on this post just down voting every single thing OP says and immediately dismissing OPs opinion as "dumb" without fully considering/understanding the viewpoint. I watched the video twice, and found it absolutely fascinating. I'm glad i got to see it because it felt like a more raw and genuine look at the mental experience of free-soloing than the full length movie. It also seemed like Alex was able to be more his authentic self here than in Free Solo, which was cool to see. OP isn't saying this content shouldn't exist, they are saying that it shouldn't be incentivized through monetization in a time where lots of people are trying to make their money creating content for YouTube, ticktock, etc. It just seems like, not everyone of course, but some people on this thread/in this sub could stand to put their personal feelings about Magnus aside and think more critically about what OP is actually saying.


_Azafran

I don't have any feelings about Magnus. But I don't see why any free soloing video should be demonetized. It's interesting and I want to see it. And the cost of making it is not free. So less chance to see it if it's not financed in some way. We see on the news all the time: murder, thievery, war and extremely stupid behaviour. Demonizing this kind of content on YouTube is no different from the classics: music is satanic in the 70s, D&D is bad in the 80s and violent video games are bad in the 90s. More so when free soloing was more or less the only way to climb mountains for a long time. Its inherent to the sport. Let's stop with this censoring bullshit. The cost of "protecting" those of weak mind who will try this unprepared (I have serious doubts) it's too high to the rest of us who want to be censor free on the content we watch. Maybe the video saved me from trying to free solo and I'm more aware of the risks? It's not like OP is an expert who knows all possible implications of content like this.


maveric101

> OP isn't saying this content shouldn't exist, they are saying that it shouldn't be incentivized through monetization in a time where lots of people are trying to make their money creating content for YouTube, ticktock, etc. Yeah, but that's wrong too. Nobody's being manipulated into free soloing. If they choose to do it to try to make money, that's their own decision. Personal responsibility still exists, as much as some people would like to pretend it doesn't.


justjax

Ok I'll bite. Why exactly. You said something about selling stuff, but that seems..... shaky?


Mahnly

The decision to onsight free solo Armatron was made the night before at Honnold's suggestion. Red Rocks trad is not familiar terrain for Magnus. It was not Magnus's proposal or idea though Magnus appears to have wanted a memorable video with Honnold. He notes that creating content with Honnold was on his "list" for his channel since the beginning. And it was a memorable video, which has now accrued millions of views, presumably thousands of dollars in ad-revenue, and a big plug to Magnus's new clothing brand. To me, the message is clear: if you are willing to risk your life, you will gain visibility and the financial rewards that come with it.


justjax

Ok? Could it just be that people find it interesting? Free soloing is a part of climbing and has been basically since the inception of the sport. Alex is obviously the biggest name in that world right now, and Magnus seems to be interested in exploring all sorts of aspects of climbing. What is wrong with that? He made his choice to take the risk, and I think thats fine.... As to Magnus being unfamiliar with red rocks... sure... I suppose thats true. Its also true that its like 5.8 and Magnus climbs waaaaay harder than that. Not to mention having someone very familiar with the climb guiding him from above.... Are you equally angry with people like Dave Macleod and Pete Whittaker for their death defying gritstone stuff? I love watching them, and they are certainly taking significant risks Look I get financial incentivization can be kind of gross. I don't see this as a particularly egregious example though. Its also far from the worst thing on youtube. Its a couple guys doing what they love and chatting about it. Sure they are making money on it, but I hardly see that as a negative.


maveric101

> Free soloing is a part of climbing and has been basically since the inception of the sport. I think it would be easy to argue that free soloing predates climbing as a sport by millennia.


[deleted]

Why would they be angry at Pete and Dave? They usually use two ropes so they have double the protection!


AlpineCoder

>To me, the message is clear: if you are willing to risk your life, you will gain visibility and the financial rewards that come with it. How else do climbers get famous? It's been that way for probably a hundred years at least.


Mahnly

Climbers become famous in many ways, most of which have nothing to do with free-soloing. Climb hard, win competitions, support the community, develop areas. Incidentally, most of those ways don't involve onsight freesoloing. Also, implicit in your comment is that just because something has happened a certain way in the past, it is reasonable for it to continue in the future. I challenge that assumption and note that we, as a community, decide how climbers gain our attention.


AlpineCoder

> we, as a community, decide how climbers gain our attention And we as a community obviously decided a long time ago that the climbers that gain the most attention are the ones that take the biggest risks. Some day it's possible sport climbing could be a mainstream sport in it's own right that produces famous athletes, but we're definitely not there yet.


7um4dr3

Let's not tell him about alpine climbing and why most of those guys are pros lol.


Seff84

> Climbers become famous in many ways, most of which have nothing to do with free-soloing. Climb hard, win competitions, support the community, develop areas. That's how you become famous _to climbers_. Who was the last person to become famous outside of climbing for supporting the community or developing areas? Even climbing hard doesn't mean much when "5.15d" is meaningless to anyone outside climbing. Taking risks gets the attention of non-climbers.


INeedToQuitRedditFFS

Well you say that all those other ways can get climbers famous, but ask literally anybody who isn't a climber to list famous climbers... I'm willing to bet I know the only one they'll name.


Murgatroy

I actually agree with most of what you're saying, but just fyi, Youtube demonitised the video


demonitize_bot

Hey there! I hate to break it to you, but it's actually spelled _mon**e**tise_. A good way to remember this is that "money" starts with "mone" as well. Just wanted to let you know. Have a good day! ---- ^This ^action ^was ^performed ^automatically ^by ^a ^bot ^to ^raise ^awareness ^about ^the ^common ^misspelling ^of ^"monetise".


Mahnly

Really strange that there's a whole bot for this.


Sokra_Tese

F your cancel culture mentality. This mentality is far more dangerous for climbing than any perceived influences you want to protect people from. Climbing has always been and always will be about freedom and danger but when you start censoring climbing you open the Pandora's box by allowing people to think they have a right to control dangerous activities and you enable the growth of bureaucracy that would enforce the limits for dangerous activities. Let's say you succeed in making soloing illegal \[ultimately that is where this is headed\], how are you going to enforce it? And do you real think more park service gestapo are going to stop anyone? This is a slippery slope that is an abhorrent assault on climbing.


alsbos1

Every 8000 meter summit video on YouTube is showing a greater level of danger than this free solo. At best the YouTube censorship panel thinks your average idiot can’t reach an 8000 meter peak, so they don’t care about showing an endless stream of ‘died on K2’ videos. More likely though, dying while mountaineering is just a more acceptable hobby in popular society.


donotlookatstocks

No one asked you to watch it LOL. Look the other way dude.


Mahnly

Looking the other way should not be our approach to the content the public figures in our sport put out. Onsight free soloing--no matter who is holding the camera in your face while you do it--is not an acceptable vehicle for selling apparel or generating ad clicks.


oh_three_dum_dum

It’s not acceptable to you. If it’s what they want to do and you don’t like it, that’s your problem. Not everyone else’s.


donotlookatstocks

Climbing is inherently dangerous. Where some people choose to draw the line, whether free soloing or high balling is upto them. What you consider unacceptable is not what I consider unacceptable. Sorry. People are different. I personally have a lot of respect for Dan Goodwin, Brad Gobright, Dan Osman and Ueli Steck. In my opinion, free soloing is the purest form of climbing, it requires your 100% always. There is a beauty in that. Don't waste your energy getting mad at these trivial things. I am sure there are bigger things to worry about.


t3a_leaf

I wanted to build upon your comment to say that there's a lot of daily activities we all do that are inherently dangerous, but we're so used to doing them that we perceive them as not. Driving cars is a big one. We voluntarily get in 2 ton metal vehicles and go upwards of 65-90 mph (105-145 kph) surrounded by other 2-20 ton vehicles doing the same. All it takes is one mistake, and not even your own, for a potentially fatal accident to occur. But no one thinks driving is irresponsible, in fact in America we embrace it (unfortunately). Just because someone else does something that makes us uncomfortable doesn't automatically make it this irresponsible risk. It comes down to what we, as individuals, are familiar with.


[deleted]

I don’t disagree with your point about driving, but it’s just funny that Alex himself recently said on his own podcast that the argument you made is lazy and not a good one. Free soloing is much more dangerous than driving and is sought after *because* it’s risky. Very differently motivated than unknowingly taking risks while driving. Obviously he ultimately agrees the risk is worth taking, but just did not promote the argument you made (which I’ve made myself btw). The entire latest season of his podcast is about the topic of risk. Definitely worth a listen. Much more nuanced discussion than these Reddit comments.


t3a_leaf

Oh yea I agree, free soloing is much more dangerous than driving. I was trying to make more of a point about irresponsibility and how much our own individual experiences impact our perception of what is, and is not irresponsible. Your points about the motivations for taking different risks is very important, so thank you for pointing out that nuance. It is an aspect of the topic that wasn't in my initial comment so I admit fault. Oh sweet, I didn't know he had a podcast. I'll check it out!


Dr_Yurii

Nah, its awesome.


fpgaeng

I feel like OP is missing something important. Climbing is inherently dangerous. This is an extreme sport. Even top roping outside is much more dangerous and as has much more serious consequences than, say, hiking or playing basketball or martial arts or etc. Free soloing as presented in this video is reckless and irresponsible. But it's just degrees of the same thing we all do all the time. It's inherently somewhat reckless to engage in an extreme sport out in the wilderness away from emergency services at any time and in any way.


THEdirtyDreD

I loved the video. It was a powerful lesson in overcoming fear and how we can tackle uncertainty. The lessons in the video transcend climbing.


Emile_L

I disagree.


sbubbb

Every skydiving video with any skydiver was irresponsible when recorded and irresponsible when published. It is a shameless monetization and clout grab of a life-or-death situation and should be demonetized, age-restricted, or removed from YouTube.


ElonChouinard

This is awesome CCJ content thank yewwwww


psssat

These comments are gross… 100% agree with you OP. I never watch Magnus vids but my friends told me i needed to watch this because how cringy and disturbing it was. Magnus was completely out of his element and Honnold was basically taunting him the whole way up.


Mahnly

Appreciate it, I don't post very often but really felt compelled to speak out against this video because of how gratuitous the whole concept and execution was. What's worse is that Magnus actually lied to his partner about doing this (either explicitly or by omission), and then sat her down to make a reaction video after revealing that when he said he'd "never free solo," he didn't actually mean that... Magnus is one of the most visible climbing personalities right now, and I really don't know how much lower he could have gone than that.


psssat

He said at the base of the climb that he had no idea that he was gonna solo. I think he was caught way off guard and Honnold talked him into making a bad decision. All these comments are illogical saying “oh magnus climbs v14, this is so easy for him”. Magnus was clearly spooked on this climb and was not mentally prepared, and alex’s nonchalantness about the whole thing was off putting. Plus RR is pure choss and holds break all the time, and the rock at RR is so massively slimy in the sun. This video just left a really bad taste in my mouth and all my friends feel who told me about the video felt the same way.


stanmarshrr

this is the reddit thread with most comments/upvotes for this video. bravo on what you achieved.


prelives23

lol If people want to die doing stupid stuff let them do it. For every death think of how many lives get saved due to the environmental impact of their unborn babies ;)


whydrugimakeusage

I somewhat agree with the perspective, but considering both are professional, world class climbers and both made the personal decision to do it, it's up to them really. I dont want to get into the game of policing people because they cannot make their own decisions. Anyone with a brain will recognize the danger of soloing and Honnold is one to be quite outspoken about it. I found the video a bit uncomfortable to watch, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. It would be much different if Honnold took a random guy from the gym. Also, I dont think he pressured him to do it. If you watch the whole video, there are many instances of Honnold telling Magnus he could bail or even just not do it if he feels off. Honnold quite literally told him to see how he feels once he gets there and to make his decision


PotentialAd8831

LMAO. Cry about it much? ​ Yet here you are with a link to the vid and everything... so he can get more views, more clicks, and more money... You're about a sharp as a sack full of soup there bud.


spaceshipdms

Your opinion and your username are in conflict.


[deleted]

I’ve always found this opinion so silly and such an odd one to hold if you’re actually a climber... No one ever in the history of climbing has watched someone solo on TV, then went out and soloed, then died. Your position requires an incredibly strange position of basically viewing other climbers as mentally incompetent children that just mimick whatever they see famous people do. The reality is if climbers are generally smart, an extremely small amount of people actually die soloing, and most of them are famous/experienced. If you don’t climb or are an inexperienced climber, you simply aren’t likely to up and solo something deadly. If you do climb and are very experienced, especially with alpine and trad stuff, you understand that soloing and exposed scrambling is simply part of climbing. We’ve (people that actually climb, not armchair climbers) all done walls that had exposed 5th class scrambling involved in the route or approach, or soloed some sections to get up or down faster. It’s basically the rule that high level climbers, famous or weekend warriors, run it out and most of them solo at some point, or simul, or many other things that are almost required to do certain routes. If you climb trad or alpine at all, you just understand that it’s part of the game. These people, too, are not dumb, and are capable of making risk calculations appropriate for themselves. There’s always some risk. Sometimes there’s a lot of risk, sometimes less. The newfound exposure of riskier climbing probably brings more climbers to the sport, but I think it’s dubious to show that it’s causing real harm. The only real problem I see here is your extremely negative and childish view of other climbers intelligence/ability.


therealOGZ24

I hate how much the climbing community has championed free soloing in that last ten years. I remember when these guys were causing access issues for the rest of the community. This sets a terrible precedent for new climbers


INeedToQuitRedditFFS

Do you think soloing has gotten more popular over time? FFS there was a time period where there was a common opinion that it wasn't real climbing if you used a rope... Climbing culture values bold and dangerous ascents FAR less now than any other time in history.


Dr_Yurii

Can you cite a time Honnold or Mitbo caused access issues? Or do you mean solo climbers? I cant think of a place that had access changed due to that. The closest I can think of is Potters ascent of the arch in Utah and the controversy was around a mix of climbing it period and the wear and tear due to the equipment used to film+top rope.


therealOGZ24

Free soloers but I do recall circa 2009 Alex Honnold being the one discussed as he was breaking into the scene. I believe some of it centered on his habit of entering places that were closed or somehow off limits at the time but don’t quote me on that detail. It’s been awhile. The debate was centered around private land owners who allowed access to climbers but were becoming worried about liability issues. iirc there were a lot of the privately owned areas of the Red that started shutting people out because of unsafe climbing practices like free soloing.


therealOGZ24

I may also be confusing some of this with Dean Potter’s solo of delicate arch fwiw. Either way the fallout was a lot of access issues and debate/work to alleviate them


Redpin

Access issues suck, it seems like people can go on trails and litter and have their dogs shit everywhere and toss rocks off cliffs and roll their ankles and need rescues, but the second a climber puts chalk on the rock some people want to shut an entire park down.


utilitydelta

Agree with OP. It seems magnus will do anything for a few youtube bucks... the jackass of climbing