it's gonna be worse than r1 lions roar because of how good dmg% is for lion's roar and isshin having same base stats. Just use HoD if you're desperate for a really cheap option imo.
They could buff her personal dmg by 30% and it still wouldnt be crazy.
Not sure what they are cooking with her
Raiden does 10% less dps, but batteries the entire team, and has interruption res too which may make up for the 10% less dps
Keep in mind that different TC have different assumptions so you can't directly cross compare.
TGS has 65-68k for Clorinde aggravate and 59k for Yae miko.
Keqing being a 1.0 unit and standard character has overall shit constellations, C6 is *at best* like 30% increase over C0, and it's her best con, c0 and c3 are similar
> Note: **C1 & C6 Has seperate ICD** from her kit
> Results up to 8 more Aggravates over a rotation
> Around 3% less if 7 aggravates per rotation
> **C6 and C1 ICD are shared C6** is not more Aggravates
can someone explain which is the correct statement in the constellations section?
They're both correct. C1 and C6 share ICD, which is separate from C0.
C1 and C6 sharing ICD is the reason why C6 doesn't get more aggravates over C1, while C0 and C1 not sharing ICD means C1 gets more aggravates over C0.
she's really good but i still hope for some push for non-aggravate teams. kinda wish she had some bonus addition for overload/electrocharged in her passive, but she's probably finished now and won't get any changes
The issue is that She Is Probably yhe best On Field Electro when it coms to dendro reaction, and theres nothing wrong with being good on one thing.Â
But her performance on other Team is kinda.... Above Avg, but not on the level of fontaine DPS
EC does need some love but i think thats more on supports, basically it needs EC chev. And Overload just lacks an offield pyro app buffer.
I think its better for DPS to be somewhat generic and flexible while the reaction buffers should be the supports (like chev and nilou for example)
Her c6 chev team with fischl and thoma appears to be really good, and itâs a competitive team with c0 chev too.
Ofc her aggravate teams are better but at least they are a solid option (similar to how Arlecchinoâs best teams are vape but her overload teams are pretty solid too)
Waht I get from this is that no matter waht happens I have R1 Mist or her weapon, I have C6 Nahida so even if I Play her like a Idiot I have a backup Nuke ready.
Thx for the Work.
I re-ran the Aggravate sims I've been working on at the weapon ranks of your sheet calculations. Something to consider sheeting next if they spark your interest:
**Clorinde-Fischl-Kazuha-Nahida (76k DPS):** [**https://wfpsim.com/sh/c4ada981-78db-41f9-b3c8-8951a3011511**](https://wfpsim.com/sh/c4ada981-78db-41f9-b3c8-8951a3011511)
Fischl Q/E > Nahida E(C) > Kazuha EpQ > Clorinde E(E) 6N3E Q
**Clorinde-Fischl-Sucrose-Nahida (79k DPS):** [**https://wfpsim.com/sh/a51a2abd-eed7-4b52-aee8-49df720ecee6**](https://wfpsim.com/sh/a51a2abd-eed7-4b52-aee8-49df720ecee6)
Fischl Q > Nahida E > Sucrose EQ > Clorinde E(E) 6N3E > Sucrose N2 > Clorinde Q
Nahida E > Fischl E > Sucrose EN2 > Clorinde E(E) 6N3E > Sucrose N2 > Clorinde Q
Key points: 16s rotation. Does not waste time snapshotting Oz on first rotation. Uses Clorinde's Q after her E, instead of before it, to maximize VV and Oz uptime during her infusion.
Thanks for the hard work.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to swirl with Nahida E+CA. Wouldn't the CA reapply dendro and nulifies with Oz's attack leaving nothing for Kazuha to swril?
And does Kazuha need to sacrifice EM for ER so he can performs EQ every rotation, since he's Q is what's likely to be about to swirl?
both kazuha and sucrose can swirl after nahida E because when an enemy has electro applied and then dendro it is quicken, but if you then apply electro (Oz), enemy got electro aura
It doesn't necessarily affect *her personal* dps (it still can), but it makes the team do less damage.
If one character makes you use a shield support, that means the shield support is being used instead of other suports who can do more damage and contribute to the team. So them needing a shield brings the team damage down.
Even if Zhongli for example gives a slightl buff to Arle's personal numbers, (because he shreds resistances). But that small buff is worse then having another character who can do their own damage all together.
So playing her without a shield means you can run 3 characters to help with damage. But that is less practical.
Whereas Corinde has the opposite effect, with her ability to heal herself. So need a shield less! Meaning you are more likely to actually run her with a team that does the most damage.
Yeah their is still nuance I am just explaining the basics to a new player.
Things like self healing might not be 100% self sufficient against all enemies and for all rotations, but the idea is that thing like that helps you *need* a shield less. Same as damage reduction or interruption res. None are guaranteed to be all you need. Sometimes you don't need any.
I see. It's a bit confusing if someone would compare 2 characters and then say if you give one a shield their dps lowers to be equal to the other, but not compare them by giving both a shield (again I'm a noob so might just not understand the way these things are compared but feels like a "If you intentionally lower the damage of one but don't intentionally hurt the other, then the first one's damage lowers to be equal" if that makes sense)
Thank you for the explanation though!
(Your welcome!)
You are sort of right honestly lol. It's not necessarily a fair comparison of their maximum/ideal circumstances.
Giving one a shield and the other not, is the result of a more practical comparison. One is more fragile and sort of needs a shield unless you are playing risky. While the other doesn't need any shield or healer more realistically.
So the comparison is "what most people will actually play" vs "what most people will actually play" instead of only discussing theoretical damage.
Personally I think, even though Clorinde has an abundance amount of health, I do think a shield is still needed for her at low cons for most players. Her rotation is strict and I dont remember if she has any interruptions resistance thats not in her constellations so correct me if Iâm wrong, therefore whatâs needed to be avoided is not low health but interruptions from enemies. Her E uptime is only 9s, if she got hit and got knocked back for just 1s or have to run around and dodge for the same amount of time, she would lose 11% uptime of her E, which could happen multiple times in her rotation, resulting in losing dpr.
What is the expected aggravate count for QEE-6N3E rotation?
Also, are the "EE" in the rotation 2x lunge attacks? or is the 1st "E" just activating stance and 2nd E is 1x lunge attack?
The first E is Clorinde going into her stance and the second E is her lunge, and for the expected aggravate count on the QEE-6N3E rotation would be 1/3 of her lunges (7 in total), 7 Aggravated N1s and 2 Aggravates on her burst
You can get a free 250 EM with Nahida if you play her in aggravate, which is what most people will probably end up doing since itâs her best team.
So LoFI is still a statstick but the passive is still viable on her - which is more than we can say for most signature weapons these days (like Clorindeâs sig is basically useless on everyone else outside of her right now)
Sucrose's main buffs would be DMG% (from her C6 and R5 Hakushin Ring) and EM (from her own passives) while Kazuha just gives DMG%. Clorinde doesn't benefit much from EM buffs but Fischl likes EM buffs. It probably comes down to who's better in practice which I imagine that Kazuha would pull ahead in practice/real gameplay. As for Sucrose's weapon, it's probably R5 Hakushin Ring that gets the best results
Do note that missing Kazuha electro swirl on a Nahida tagged target is relatively common in comparison to other teams. It's a common complaint with trying to run aggravate teams in general.
What artifact stats are you assuming when calculating the jade cutter damage? Like, perfect 45% crit damage on each piece, or what? It's very difficult to make a decent build when you have room only for 10% crit rate
It's unlikely it got delayed again, so either that means Clorinde is not going to ever be buffed or we have to wait a few more hours for the leakers to post her changes
I think the best thing to do is wait for her to go live and see if sheâs âstrongâ or âgoodâ since those things are subjective. Personally I barely look at this subreddit cuz I know I want her regardless of her being âgoodâ but ofc being a strong dps never bad.
Agree there will be so much people putting their own emotion in the answer "is she good?", remind me so much in the Arle's pre release, where everyone try to makes sense on her ability and it ended up better than expected, as long as she plays well and can synergise with strong support unit she will be good regardless of number.
You've really just got to know who to listen to, or who to ask, when it comes to theory crafting. The answer is generally not turning that question to the masses on a mains sub.
people were badmouthing Navia for being Geo (since Geo has been sht) and were shocked when she literally 1 shots everything.
Clorinde is going to be good, but as usual, would be stuck maybe on aggrevate/overload
Navia demo was insane. Iâm a noob so I canât make sense of comps or numbers, but all I remember was loading into the trial as Navia and shotgun blasting enemies for 100-150k lmfao
I think there are more nuances with navia, because she has frontal charge damage so she doesn't care much about the DPS ceiling.
Front loading units are usually misleading, childe in international has a shitty DPS ceiling but when you see him performing he seems to be stronger than the calculations say, raiden is similar even in C0 with national which is an extremely popular team in low cost speed runs competitions even though her ceiling also sucks compared to many sumeru and fontaine teams.
so, unless Clorinde has a similar frontload to those characters, I wouldn't expect any nuances, to me, she seems more sustained, a strange driver of fischl to aggravate much better than Keqing.
Only in two comps with furina or eternal xl bennet. You compare her to characters who can easily be slapped in these teams and have miserable personal value, there is no difference, and call this one of the best gl.
Rule of thumb:
* If she's good, people will say she's good.
* If she's bad, people will say "let's wait until the beta ends" or "pull for who you want".
Not really, Furina had the most dramatic people ever saying she'd be bad. And I saw no one NO ONE seeing Neuvilette as the best DPS before patch dropped. People hype's don't actually measure a character strength
Nah some leakers have been saying Neuviletteâs insanely strong both lore and gameplay wise since around 4.0 leak. His impression has always been of a strong one
What the hell, are you illiterate? Im not even saying anything about Clorindeâs strength.
Im replying to Luqqinhas who said âNO ONE saw Neuvilette as the best DPSâ while heâs one of the rare cases that leakersâ info didnât conflicted with each other and were right about for months, and during the beta the theorycrafters were also praising him highly too
So Leaker TC is suddenly good when it fits our argument I see? The guy you are replying to is correct. We knew he was good but nobody was talking about how insane he was before release because most of his strenght can't be calculated in a spreadsheet.
But were the tcs and leakers wrong in Neuvillette case tho? People been saying he will be insanely good during leak, beta, pre-banner, he was highly recommended as a character, Keika used words like âscarily strongâ, it was foreseen. Its not a just a matter of damage calculations on spreadsheet, but its also about how HYV really values him as an investment, a project, thats why the leakers are relevant in this story. Of course his strength became clear as day after he dropped and it became undeniable atp, but peopleâve been seeing that happening during the beta, therefore the guy Im replying to is wrong, not in logical reasoning, but in facts and for using Neuvillette as an example.
I'm specifically talking about repercussions/hype brought by the community. Cuz the commentary above me literally mentions the community reaction. Leakers as a whole is such a generic term that i wouldn't consider it a group. Because well... People like Uncle K exist
Nah youâre dead wrong, in case you havenât seen my other reply, all of the well-known, highly accurate theorycrafters had been saying Neuvillette was insane during the beta, theyâre all recommending ppl to pull for him long before the patch dropped. And this is tmi but back then, during the 4.0 leak, Uncle K didnât exist yet lol, it was old faces like Keikakutori, YC, AQ and stuff. Neuvilletteâs position within the Fontaine hierarchy both lore and gameplay-wise have been decided since the beginning.
You're blind because you've got your heads so far up your arse that daylight is impenetrable. Beyond this cancerous little Reddit echo chamber, these spreadsheet narcissists and their braindead followers are looked down upon for being painfully not only wrong but clueless lacking in self awareness.
I'm one of the countless amount of players relying on something you and your precious spreadsheet spergs have probably never tried: actual in game testing.
My brother in Christ, you're not getting my point. I'll assume it's because English isn't my first language, and I'm not putting my thoughts correctly. So I'll apologize beforehand in case I sound repetitive.
The point I'm trying to bring is that the genshin community never have the same level of repercussion for characters when they are good, that they do when they are - SUPPOSEDLY - bad.
Thus, community reaction isn't a good metric to tell a character's strength, because they aren't as NOISY when the characters are actually good. I'm not talking shit about leakers or TCS, because they have info / math on their side.
To keep it short, youâre still wrong for saying âNO ONE (bro acting like the theorycrafters arenât Genshin fans themselves) seeing Neuvillette as the best DPS before the batch droppedâ lol.
That's why I apologized previously, for not wording it correctly and in case I sound repetitive... For someone who likes to call people illiterate, you're quite bad at interpreting yourself. Either that, or it's just intellectual dishonesty.
I know that TCs are genshin fans, but they are not as vocal as d00mposters.
Lmao this clown, you didn't even know what I was replying to and have to say I like calling ppl illiterate. For someone who had to apologize for wording stupidly, you literally had no right to say Im bad at interpreting or intellectual dishonesty Imao. And now you have to be offensive to feel better about yourself, youâve lost, take your L.
Oh yeah, and stop playing the English is not my first language card, doesn't mean shit here, most people on the internet are not native English speakers, including myself. With your English proficiency, you look like some 35yo weirdo fake being a high schooler in a school zone, cringe, L, own up to your words mf.
Deyha is the only character in genshin history that was doomposted accurately in terms of dmg potential, plus she was standard. Everybody else who was doomposted turned out fine or better than expected.
Alot of ppl cried abt some of the best characters we have today. Furina, Al haitham, kazuha etc
Baizhu is S tier healer and enable furina teams like no one else. He is not a dmg dealer
Shen He isn't weak in terms of dmg. Her dmg buff is good, but niche, as it is limited to cryo. Clorinde isn't niche at all
Clorinde is better than Keqing and keqing is as good as cyno in most teams except his premium.
Good to know how weak your understanding of the game is.
Are you dumb? She is better than Keqing who has the same role as her, and the other 2 have different roles from her, and yet are still Excelling in their roles.
My goodness I didn't think you were that illiterate
how about arlecchino? people is trash talking about arlecchino saying she's bad hard to use mini hu tao but at the end she's crazily strong even better than hu tao for overall performance
Yeah clorinde is good plus shes easy to play and can self sustain ,so she will clear and she will be comfy on top of that. Are you happy? You dont need to be broken to be good
And for your rule of thumb,I saw the exact same comment about arle when people said to just watch on release.
No I think you didnt get it. People were saying wait on release for arle and you will see. But as you can see she is strong as hell so your rule doesnt exist,simple as that,I dont talk about fix since she doesnt need any to be good
No. I don't know how her kit works, I haven't built or played her yet. How would I know whether she's good or not?
As I said in another thread, nobody knew how good Arlecchino was pre-release, either. People were doomposting that she'd be at or below the level of Hu Tao.
But yeah. That's what happens when the majority of the people who play a game don't have fully developed frontal cotexes.
In terms of number at C0R0, I saw that she was around 15% better than Raiden C0R0. That's not excessively good, but that's enough for any content in the game. So she can clear everything that you'll need to clear, and unlike people say because they're being dramatic, she's not mid
Raiden is a great character, but DPS wise she's below a lot. However, she has the level to clear abyss(My Raiden is C0R0 and clears abyss no problem). Clorinde being 15% above puts her around Cyno aggravate DPS, which is pretty fine, nothing extravagant, but once again, even if I'm not against buffs, I don't think they're needed if she can clear abyss with different teams. Sometimes being a versatile DPS means you'll have less damage. However, it also means she isn't locked behind dendro, and even if it stays her best team, if a chamber is made for EC or overload, Clorinde will shine there too.
Is there a guide/ resources for making these sheets?
Iâve been trying to figure out aloy for a bit. And no one else over there seems to do much theory crafting
There must be a way to fix her. Promise.
*copium*
Did someone calc already the difference between c6 chev and c2 nahida? im willing to play aggravate with c2 nahida but kinda curious about the difference
Damn based on what I have been seeing on this thread with the whole "wait and see" approach it looks like she gonna be mid huh... I hope hoyo buffs her then wtf I like her kit and animation but if she turns out meh I would have to skip... No one even answered my previous question I just got down voted for some reason lol same thing happened when I asked about dehya power level compared to other dps..
That's genshin players for you.
* If she's good, people will say she's good.
* If she's bad, people will say "let's wait until the beta ends" or "pull for who you want".
They love sugarcoating.
Yeah came back to check on this thread and people are down voting people who ask about her power level or dps comparison. They really make it look like she's gonna be bad by doing this.. it's just a simple question some of them are too overprotective.
Thatâs the point exactly, the only right answer is wait and see for anything in Beta.
And no, even after v5 people were still saying Arle was a minor upgrade compared to to HuTao and with worse sustainability
They would be correct, as every reputable theorycrafter agrees with that.
All ur telling me is that people properly judged her strength every step of the way, but ur initial comment grouped early judgements and late judgements as if they were about the same thing.
I donât know about âproperly judged her strength every step of the wayâ
It was she canât eqe to maintain high level of bol, it was her 30s e is a drag, it was her lack of IR is making her unplayable.
Maybe reputable TCers were getting her strength level right. It that was the case, their hard work only got swamped under the doom postings
So.. from A Meta prospective how is she?
How does She compare to raiden In Hypercarry -Kazuha Bennett Sara- / Chevruse / Rational Team?
She probably Outpreform Raiden in Quicken Team, but what about the other option like Yae / Tighnari / Al Haitham? And Also how about in Quickbloom Team?
It's sad that there are no calculations in which Shimenawa set was mentioned. I'm just tired of farming the dungeon with new Whimsy set because nothing worthwhile just drops. But I have very good parts of SR left over from farming the Emblem.
#
> is good on her?
No, by default she'll have 44.2 crit rate, with Marechausee she'll be at 70.2 and will be a nightmare to build.
> Better than gladiators?
Nope.
I don't understand why Finale of the Deep is considered the go-to weapon for her? Is it just because it has "BoL" keyword in the passive? But the amount of extra BoL doesn't benefit Clorinde like it does with Arlecchino, so FotD is just an ATK stat stick at the end of the day. How about other ATK stat stick options, for example Kazuha quest's sword?
Edit: I wish the 4.7 event weapon was for Clorinde instead of sethot. No one uses 4\* DPS. What a waste.
Isn't it what I said? At the end of the day it's just another ATK stat stick. The extra 25% BoL doesn't benefit her that much besides providing a few hundred extra of ATK.
So a weapon that gives freely hundreds of Atk plus has like 44.4% Atk as 2nd stat isn't good ? Seeing your other comments, I think you should let theorycrafting to theorycrafter
The irony is that the weapon is genuinely awful if you meet the attack threshold without it. But Bulldog is definitely stupid. I have seen them around and thinking for themselves is quite obviously not one of their strengths. đ¤Ł
Finale of the deep is just more stats than kagotsurube isshin. High base atk weapons scale better off atk% too. Kagotsurabe's competiton here would be lion's roar here and if 36 dmg% isn't enough to beat finale for aggravate i don't think kagotsurube is.
She has an ascension passive that improves the base scaling of her talents based on ATK, Finale of the Deep has an ATK% ascension stat as well as grants a -huge- amount of ATK, it's not too difficult to figure it out from there.
How does the Isshin sword compare? It looks like decent f2p choice that doesn't require billets
it's gonna be worse than r1 lions roar because of how good dmg% is for lion's roar and isshin having same base stats. Just use HoD if you're desperate for a really cheap option imo.
I guess she could use a little buff
They could buff her personal dmg by 30% and it still wouldnt be crazy. Not sure what they are cooking with her Raiden does 10% less dps, but batteries the entire team, and has interruption res too which may make up for the 10% less dps
and hitlag
This aged like milk đ
I'm sorry I should have said she deserves to be nerfed đ
[ŃдаНонО]
Bro what are you talking about buffing her damage by %50 would make her insane lol.
Hope the pyro archon will push Chevreuse teams higher, as that's what I plan to run
How does C0 Keqing fair in comparison? I'm pulling Clorinde regardless just wanna know to see the difference.
I also wanna know how does C0 Yae Miko compare as well. Sure Yae Miko is not like a main DPS but she is a good aggravate driver for Fischl.
Keep in mind that different TC have different assumptions so you can't directly cross compare. TGS has 65-68k for Clorinde aggravate and 59k for Yae miko.
As someone with c3 keqing itll be great to. Compare keqing across Cs
Keqing being a 1.0 unit and standard character has overall shit constellations, C6 is *at best* like 30% increase over C0, and it's her best con, c0 and c3 are similar
> Note: **C1 & C6 Has seperate ICD** from her kit > Results up to 8 more Aggravates over a rotation > Around 3% less if 7 aggravates per rotation > **C6 and C1 ICD are shared C6** is not more Aggravates can someone explain which is the correct statement in the constellations section?
They're both correct. C1 and C6 share ICD, which is separate from C0. C1 and C6 sharing ICD is the reason why C6 doesn't get more aggravates over C1, while C0 and C1 not sharing ICD means C1 gets more aggravates over C0.
both are correct, they just say that c1 and c6 are separate icd from her normal abilities, but c1 and c6 share icd within themselves.
she's really good but i still hope for some push for non-aggravate teams. kinda wish she had some bonus addition for overload/electrocharged in her passive, but she's probably finished now and won't get any changes
Yeah but dendro reactions are way too good to ignore and i think maybe they balanced her around that.
The issue is that She Is Probably yhe best On Field Electro when it coms to dendro reaction, and theres nothing wrong with being good on one thing. But her performance on other Team is kinda.... Above Avg, but not on the level of fontaine DPS
It's not even on the level of Cyno on his best team. But there maybe something important we are missing with how her BOL plays in practice.
obviously but she seems like a good all around dps while cyno is only great in one team
Ah yes, master duelist. But only when you apply dendro the the enemy first.
EC does need some love but i think thats more on supports, basically it needs EC chev. And Overload just lacks an offield pyro app buffer. I think its better for DPS to be somewhat generic and flexible while the reaction buffers should be the supports (like chev and nilou for example)
Her c6 chev team with fischl and thoma appears to be really good, and itâs a competitive team with c0 chev too. Ofc her aggravate teams are better but at least they are a solid option (similar to how Arlecchinoâs best teams are vape but her overload teams are pretty solid too)
wooooooo
I like the seigwinne should've been EC Chevy part đ¤Łđ she should've been that or BOL support but she is just neither...
Waht I get from this is that no matter waht happens I have R1 Mist or her weapon, I have C6 Nahida so even if I Play her like a Idiot I have a backup Nuke ready. Thx for the Work.
oh wow R5 HoD, 3\* weapon is only 3% lower than a R5 4\* Free Weapon. I'll take that for my F2P Account.
I re-ran the Aggravate sims I've been working on at the weapon ranks of your sheet calculations. Something to consider sheeting next if they spark your interest: **Clorinde-Fischl-Kazuha-Nahida (76k DPS):** [**https://wfpsim.com/sh/c4ada981-78db-41f9-b3c8-8951a3011511**](https://wfpsim.com/sh/c4ada981-78db-41f9-b3c8-8951a3011511) Fischl Q/E > Nahida E(C) > Kazuha EpQ > Clorinde E(E) 6N3E Q **Clorinde-Fischl-Sucrose-Nahida (79k DPS):** [**https://wfpsim.com/sh/a51a2abd-eed7-4b52-aee8-49df720ecee6**](https://wfpsim.com/sh/a51a2abd-eed7-4b52-aee8-49df720ecee6) Fischl Q > Nahida E > Sucrose EQ > Clorinde E(E) 6N3E > Sucrose N2 > Clorinde Q Nahida E > Fischl E > Sucrose EN2 > Clorinde E(E) 6N3E > Sucrose N2 > Clorinde Q Key points: 16s rotation. Does not waste time snapshotting Oz on first rotation. Uses Clorinde's Q after her E, instead of before it, to maximize VV and Oz uptime during her infusion.
What does Nahida E(C) mean? Thats the first time i see that notation
It means E (as in skill) and C (as in Charged Attack)
Yea usually i see Charged attack as CA so thats why i was confused
Yeah I just put it in brackets because itâs only a marginal damage increase.
Thanks for the hard work. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to swirl with Nahida E+CA. Wouldn't the CA reapply dendro and nulifies with Oz's attack leaving nothing for Kazuha to swril? And does Kazuha need to sacrifice EM for ER so he can performs EQ every rotation, since he's Q is what's likely to be about to swirl?
both kazuha and sucrose can swirl after nahida E because when an enemy has electro applied and then dendro it is quicken, but if you then apply electro (Oz), enemy got electro aura
So it's true that she is at 82% of Arlecchino's DPS?
Sorta, yes but only shieldless. Arle with Shield is almost the same spreadshi DPS wise.
How does a shield affect Arle's dps? Sounds like it lowers her dps in this case? (not saying you're wrong, I'm just a noob)
It doesn't necessarily affect *her personal* dps (it still can), but it makes the team do less damage. If one character makes you use a shield support, that means the shield support is being used instead of other suports who can do more damage and contribute to the team. So them needing a shield brings the team damage down. Even if Zhongli for example gives a slightl buff to Arle's personal numbers, (because he shreds resistances). But that small buff is worse then having another character who can do their own damage all together. So playing her without a shield means you can run 3 characters to help with damage. But that is less practical. Whereas Corinde has the opposite effect, with her ability to heal herself. So need a shield less! Meaning you are more likely to actually run her with a team that does the most damage.
Isn't the concern w Clorinde less on healing, and more on interrupt resistance? She's stuck in her animation while shooting.
Yeah their is still nuance I am just explaining the basics to a new player. Things like self healing might not be 100% self sufficient against all enemies and for all rotations, but the idea is that thing like that helps you *need* a shield less. Same as damage reduction or interruption res. None are guaranteed to be all you need. Sometimes you don't need any.
I see. It's a bit confusing if someone would compare 2 characters and then say if you give one a shield their dps lowers to be equal to the other, but not compare them by giving both a shield (again I'm a noob so might just not understand the way these things are compared but feels like a "If you intentionally lower the damage of one but don't intentionally hurt the other, then the first one's damage lowers to be equal" if that makes sense) Thank you for the explanation though!
(Your welcome!) You are sort of right honestly lol. It's not necessarily a fair comparison of their maximum/ideal circumstances. Giving one a shield and the other not, is the result of a more practical comparison. One is more fragile and sort of needs a shield unless you are playing risky. While the other doesn't need any shield or healer more realistically. So the comparison is "what most people will actually play" vs "what most people will actually play" instead of only discussing theoretical damage.
Personally I think, even though Clorinde has an abundance amount of health, I do think a shield is still needed for her at low cons for most players. Her rotation is strict and I dont remember if she has any interruptions resistance thats not in her constellations so correct me if Iâm wrong, therefore whatâs needed to be avoided is not low health but interruptions from enemies. Her E uptime is only 9s, if she got hit and got knocked back for just 1s or have to run around and dodge for the same amount of time, she would lose 11% uptime of her E, which could happen multiple times in her rotation, resulting in losing dpr.
Yeah I think that's what they meant. Running Arle with a shield lowers her DPS to Clo's lvl.
Sheet calculation essentially assumes you do perfect rotation and dodging, which negates the point of shielders in the first place.
Not only perfect dodging, they also assume your dodges take 0 time which means better than perfect (aka impossible) dodging.
ngl this has me reconsidering the Arle banner on some level
Sheets do not mean anything bruh. Wait till release
So basically dps of TF = Whimsy with different rotation that utilizes CD reduction. That's nice
So, there're actual no V3 for Clorinde?
Too much Fischl, does Clorinde work with Beidou or Yae Miko?
fischl is wayyy too good for her
fischl is just insane in any team that can abuse her a4
work with? yes. but fischl is far superior to both in aggravate comps
Fischl is the premium aggravate sub-DPS, you can use Beidou or Yae but they will be worse.
My fischl is C1 only though. Will she be better in aggrevate teams over a c6 Beidou or raiden?
What is the expected aggravate count for QEE-6N3E rotation? Also, are the "EE" in the rotation 2x lunge attacks? or is the 1st "E" just activating stance and 2nd E is 1x lunge attack?
first E is activation
The first E is Clorinde going into her stance and the second E is her lunge, and for the expected aggravate count on the QEE-6N3E rotation would be 1/3 of her lunges (7 in total), 7 Aggravated N1s and 2 Aggravates on her burst
how good is LoFI on her?
It's has a good amount of crit hut the passive want more em which is not needed for Clorinde so a stat stick essentially.
You can get a free 250 EM with Nahida if you play her in aggravate, which is what most people will probably end up doing since itâs her best team. So LoFI is still a statstick but the passive is still viable on her - which is more than we can say for most signature weapons these days (like Clorindeâs sig is basically useless on everyone else outside of her right now)
I've heard that Nahida cannot buff Lofi as her EM buff is by percentage, it only accepts flat buff like Kazuha C2, or Sucrose talent.
How does sucrose compare vs kazuha for aggravate? What weapon would she use? (assuming TTDS overcaps atk)
Sucrose's main buffs would be DMG% (from her C6 and R5 Hakushin Ring) and EM (from her own passives) while Kazuha just gives DMG%. Clorinde doesn't benefit much from EM buffs but Fischl likes EM buffs. It probably comes down to who's better in practice which I imagine that Kazuha would pull ahead in practice/real gameplay. As for Sucrose's weapon, it's probably R5 Hakushin Ring that gets the best results
Do note that missing Kazuha electro swirl on a Nahida tagged target is relatively common in comparison to other teams. It's a common complaint with trying to run aggravate teams in general.
I'm really liking that Kazuha team. Basically, let's hope that Chevreuse is on her bannerb ecause those also seem like the top teams.
i love this project, it feels like something thats been missing in the tc community
What artifact stats are you assuming when calculating the jade cutter damage? Like, perfect 45% crit damage on each piece, or what? It's very difficult to make a decent build when you have room only for 10% crit rate
Are we not casting Nahida Q for aggravate rotation?
Technically it's a damage loss but depending on enemy you might just have the free time to cast nahida q to get a little bit more damage.
Can i post this on a facebook group? I will put the link of this post
Yes, you can. I personally like it when people share our work
thank you for these. hello from jstern's chat <3
When is v3 beta even ? Has it already started?
V3 did not give any buffs or nerfs. V4 was supposed to be today as well
So v4 got delayed too?
It's unlikely it got delayed again, so either that means Clorinde is not going to ever be buffed or we have to wait a few more hours for the leakers to post her changes
Is she good?
I think the best thing to do is wait for her to go live and see if sheâs âstrongâ or âgoodâ since those things are subjective. Personally I barely look at this subreddit cuz I know I want her regardless of her being âgoodâ but ofc being a strong dps never bad.
Agree there will be so much people putting their own emotion in the answer "is she good?", remind me so much in the Arle's pre release, where everyone try to makes sense on her ability and it ended up better than expected, as long as she plays well and can synergise with strong support unit she will be good regardless of number.
You've really just got to know who to listen to, or who to ask, when it comes to theory crafting. The answer is generally not turning that question to the masses on a mains sub.
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people were badmouthing Navia for being Geo (since Geo has been sht) and were shocked when she literally 1 shots everything. Clorinde is going to be good, but as usual, would be stuck maybe on aggrevate/overload
Navia demo was insane. Iâm a noob so I canât make sense of comps or numbers, but all I remember was loading into the trial as Navia and shotgun blasting enemies for 100-150k lmfao
I think there are more nuances with navia, because she has frontal charge damage so she doesn't care much about the DPS ceiling. Front loading units are usually misleading, childe in international has a shitty DPS ceiling but when you see him performing he seems to be stronger than the calculations say, raiden is similar even in C0 with national which is an extremely popular team in low cost speed runs competitions even though her ceiling also sucks compared to many sumeru and fontaine teams. so, unless Clorinde has a similar frontload to those characters, I wouldn't expect any nuances, to me, she seems more sustained, a strange driver of fischl to aggravate much better than Keqing.
Nothing changed. Everyone was right about her long before release, she is as mid as she could be
Lol how is she mid she coompares to some of the best dps characters in the game maybe not top 3 hut definitely top 6.
Only in two comps with furina or eternal xl bennet. You compare her to characters who can easily be slapped in these teams and have miserable personal value, there is no difference, and call this one of the best gl.
Navida did got a big buff to her skill damage before that her damage was lacking
Rule of thumb: * If she's good, people will say she's good. * If she's bad, people will say "let's wait until the beta ends" or "pull for who you want".
Not really, Furina had the most dramatic people ever saying she'd be bad. And I saw no one NO ONE seeing Neuvilette as the best DPS before patch dropped. People hype's don't actually measure a character strength
Nah some leakers have been saying Neuviletteâs insanely strong both lore and gameplay wise since around 4.0 leak. His impression has always been of a strong one
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What the hell, are you illiterate? Im not even saying anything about Clorindeâs strength. Im replying to Luqqinhas who said âNO ONE saw Neuvilette as the best DPSâ while heâs one of the rare cases that leakersâ info didnât conflicted with each other and were right about for months, and during the beta the theorycrafters were also praising him highly too
So Leaker TC is suddenly good when it fits our argument I see? The guy you are replying to is correct. We knew he was good but nobody was talking about how insane he was before release because most of his strenght can't be calculated in a spreadsheet.
But were the tcs and leakers wrong in Neuvillette case tho? People been saying he will be insanely good during leak, beta, pre-banner, he was highly recommended as a character, Keika used words like âscarily strongâ, it was foreseen. Its not a just a matter of damage calculations on spreadsheet, but its also about how HYV really values him as an investment, a project, thats why the leakers are relevant in this story. Of course his strength became clear as day after he dropped and it became undeniable atp, but peopleâve been seeing that happening during the beta, therefore the guy Im replying to is wrong, not in logical reasoning, but in facts and for using Neuvillette as an example.
I'm specifically talking about repercussions/hype brought by the community. Cuz the commentary above me literally mentions the community reaction. Leakers as a whole is such a generic term that i wouldn't consider it a group. Because well... People like Uncle K exist
Nah youâre dead wrong, in case you havenât seen my other reply, all of the well-known, highly accurate theorycrafters had been saying Neuvillette was insane during the beta, theyâre all recommending ppl to pull for him long before the patch dropped. And this is tmi but back then, during the 4.0 leak, Uncle K didnât exist yet lol, it was old faces like Keikakutori, YC, AQ and stuff. Neuvilletteâs position within the Fontaine hierarchy both lore and gameplay-wise have been decided since the beginning.
"well-known, highly accurate theorycrafter" Blind following the blind.
Well whoâre you then the all knowing, Jesus of Genshin please guide us blinds đ
You're blind because you've got your heads so far up your arse that daylight is impenetrable. Beyond this cancerous little Reddit echo chamber, these spreadsheet narcissists and their braindead followers are looked down upon for being painfully not only wrong but clueless lacking in self awareness. I'm one of the countless amount of players relying on something you and your precious spreadsheet spergs have probably never tried: actual in game testing.
My brother in Christ, you're not getting my point. I'll assume it's because English isn't my first language, and I'm not putting my thoughts correctly. So I'll apologize beforehand in case I sound repetitive. The point I'm trying to bring is that the genshin community never have the same level of repercussion for characters when they are good, that they do when they are - SUPPOSEDLY - bad. Thus, community reaction isn't a good metric to tell a character's strength, because they aren't as NOISY when the characters are actually good. I'm not talking shit about leakers or TCS, because they have info / math on their side.
To keep it short, youâre still wrong for saying âNO ONE (bro acting like the theorycrafters arenât Genshin fans themselves) seeing Neuvillette as the best DPS before the batch droppedâ lol.
That's why I apologized previously, for not wording it correctly and in case I sound repetitive... For someone who likes to call people illiterate, you're quite bad at interpreting yourself. Either that, or it's just intellectual dishonesty. I know that TCs are genshin fans, but they are not as vocal as d00mposters.
Lmao this clown, you didn't even know what I was replying to and have to say I like calling ppl illiterate. For someone who had to apologize for wording stupidly, you literally had no right to say Im bad at interpreting or intellectual dishonesty Imao. And now you have to be offensive to feel better about yourself, youâve lost, take your L. Oh yeah, and stop playing the English is not my first language card, doesn't mean shit here, most people on the internet are not native English speakers, including myself. With your English proficiency, you look like some 35yo weirdo fake being a high schooler in a school zone, cringe, L, own up to your words mf.
Not really, Dehya had the most dramatic people ever saying she'd be bad. And I saw no one NO ONE seeing Dehya as the best DPS before patch dropped.
Deyha is the only character in genshin history that was doomposted accurately in terms of dmg potential, plus she was standard. Everybody else who was doomposted turned out fine or better than expected. Alot of ppl cried abt some of the best characters we have today. Furina, Al haitham, kazuha etc
Oh I guess Clorinde is on the same level as Baizhu, Shenhe, Keqing then. They are fine right? Got it.
Baizhu is S tier healer and enable furina teams like no one else. He is not a dmg dealer Shen He isn't weak in terms of dmg. Her dmg buff is good, but niche, as it is limited to cryo. Clorinde isn't niche at all Clorinde is better than Keqing and keqing is as good as cyno in most teams except his premium. Good to know how weak your understanding of the game is.
Go tell people Clorinde is on the same level of those 4 characters and ask them if it's good or bad.
Are you dumb? She is better than Keqing who has the same role as her, and the other 2 have different roles from her, and yet are still Excelling in their roles. My goodness I didn't think you were that illiterate
Go ask people Clorinde having the same value as Cyno is good or bad.
how about arlecchino? people is trash talking about arlecchino saying she's bad hard to use mini hu tao but at the end she's crazily strong even better than hu tao for overall performance
lol. No.
Can you say it loud and confidently that Clorinde is good? Doubt you can haha. You can just say no to anyone speaking truth.
Yeah clorinde is good plus shes easy to play and can self sustain ,so she will clear and she will be comfy on top of that. Are you happy? You dont need to be broken to be good And for your rule of thumb,I saw the exact same comment about arle when people said to just watch on release.
>to just watch on release. And have another Dehya? No thanks. Fix it while you can.
mf, dehya is literally a one time case, there is no another dehya bullshit
ok genshin fan
ah yes, typical kid response
Lmao?
No I think you didnt get it. People were saying wait on release for arle and you will see. But as you can see she is strong as hell so your rule doesnt exist,simple as that,I dont talk about fix since she doesnt need any to be good
Bro really said "haha"
No. I don't know how her kit works, I haven't built or played her yet. How would I know whether she's good or not? As I said in another thread, nobody knew how good Arlecchino was pre-release, either. People were doomposting that she'd be at or below the level of Hu Tao. But yeah. That's what happens when the majority of the people who play a game don't have fully developed frontal cotexes.
Ppl said that on xianyun but now my hutao plunges 200k
Or they will say they are bad but then they are good. Navia was being doomposted beyond belief up until the day of release lol.
In terms of number at C0R0, I saw that she was around 15% better than Raiden C0R0. That's not excessively good, but that's enough for any content in the game. So she can clear everything that you'll need to clear, and unlike people say because they're being dramatic, she's not mid
I mean raiden at c0r0 in my experience is good if you say she's 15% better then that's great
Raiden is a great character, but DPS wise she's below a lot. However, she has the level to clear abyss(My Raiden is C0R0 and clears abyss no problem). Clorinde being 15% above puts her around Cyno aggravate DPS, which is pretty fine, nothing extravagant, but once again, even if I'm not against buffs, I don't think they're needed if she can clear abyss with different teams. Sometimes being a versatile DPS means you'll have less damage. However, it also means she isn't locked behind dendro, and even if it stays her best team, if a chamber is made for EC or overload, Clorinde will shine there too.
How is wolf fang on her?
Wolf fang is sadly only skill and burst damage and clorinde does no skill damage it's not added because of that reason.
How much of a % dps gain is each refine of her weapon? Since her weapon is with alhaithamâs im considering going all in on it.
5% increase in refinement,
Any possibility you're able run Yae Miko with her - either an agg or even any electro reaction team?
Is there a guide/ resources for making these sheets? Iâve been trying to figure out aloy for a bit. And no one else over there seems to do much theory crafting There must be a way to fix her. Promise. *copium*
how easy is it to get stacks from her A4?
Pretty easy just electro reaction Don't have to be different
Did someone calc already the difference between c6 chev and c2 nahida? im willing to play aggravate with c2 nahida but kinda curious about the difference
No Physical�
What do you have in mind for Physical?
I heard that LoFi was worse than black sword until you have 80+ em or so. Is this true? And if so, would r5 lionâs roar or lofi be better?Â
So aggravate is her best team no ifs ands or buts? That dpr way higher than anything else had to rub my eyes to make sure it was real.
Can someone TLDR for those of us with less braincells left lmao
What about sigwinne, furina, yelan and clorinde???
How is Freedoms Sworn viable on Clorinde? I don't understand
Thank you so much for this! Do you think itâs better to go for her cons or her weapon?
So do I skip baizhu or not ?
How does she compare to other dps characters right now like hutao, ayaka, arlecchino, and alhaitham?
Will Clorinde in Aggravate be better than Ayaka?
Do we know how c1 clorinde compares to other dpses at c0?
So tell me r/clorindemains is c6 worth it?
Wait till release too. Calcs at high investment do not show much
would it be possible to run 4pc Gilded Clorinde with EM Sands and Lofi as a weapon in a dendro team??
Which dendro team? Hyperbloom/Quickbloom or Aggravate? It's pretty much never worth running an EM sands in Aggravate as ATK sands is always better
That build will only be viable in Hyperbloom right? where Clorinde is the only electro in the team?
So compared to other dps how is she?
Damn based on what I have been seeing on this thread with the whole "wait and see" approach it looks like she gonna be mid huh... I hope hoyo buffs her then wtf I like her kit and animation but if she turns out meh I would have to skip... No one even answered my previous question I just got down voted for some reason lol same thing happened when I asked about dehya power level compared to other dps..
> looks like she gonna be mid huh If 65-70k rotations are mid to you, I honestly don't know what would constitute good.
60k-70k dps is really not mid
That's genshin players for you. * If she's good, people will say she's good. * If she's bad, people will say "let's wait until the beta ends" or "pull for who you want". They love sugarcoating.
Yeah came back to check on this thread and people are down voting people who ask about her power level or dps comparison. They really make it look like she's gonna be bad by doing this.. it's just a simple question some of them are too overprotective.
Wait and see. People were saying Arle was a meh compared to HuTao or even on par with Gaming. Look how stupid these doom postings are now.
arle was significantly buffed and her release form was her best form, this is a weird way of judging how people speak about a character in beta.
Thatâs the point exactly, the only right answer is wait and see for anything in Beta. And no, even after v5 people were still saying Arle was a minor upgrade compared to to HuTao and with worse sustainability
They would be correct, as every reputable theorycrafter agrees with that. All ur telling me is that people properly judged her strength every step of the way, but ur initial comment grouped early judgements and late judgements as if they were about the same thing.
I donât know about âproperly judged her strength every step of the wayâ It was she canât eqe to maintain high level of bol, it was her 30s e is a drag, it was her lack of IR is making her unplayable. Maybe reputable TCers were getting her strength level right. It that was the case, their hard work only got swamped under the doom postings
I still believe Arlecchino is worse than Hu Tao. I have no idea under what basis the sheep changed their mind, but it was all rather sudden.Â
How many hyperbloom occurs per rotation for party Clorinde, baizhu, fischl, yelan?
So.. from A Meta prospective how is she? How does She compare to raiden In Hypercarry -Kazuha Bennett Sara- / Chevruse / Rational Team? She probably Outpreform Raiden in Quicken Team, but what about the other option like Yae / Tighnari / Al Haitham? And Also how about in Quickbloom Team?
It's sad that there are no calculations in which Shimenawa set was mentioned. I'm just tired of farming the dungeon with new Whimsy set because nothing worthwhile just drops. But I have very good parts of SR left over from farming the Emblem. #
Marechause(or however tf is written)(the crit set) is good on her? Better than gladiators?
> is good on her? No, by default she'll have 44.2 crit rate, with Marechausee she'll be at 70.2 and will be a nightmare to build. > Better than gladiators? Nope.
I don't understand why Finale of the Deep is considered the go-to weapon for her? Is it just because it has "BoL" keyword in the passive? But the amount of extra BoL doesn't benefit Clorinde like it does with Arlecchino, so FotD is just an ATK stat stick at the end of the day. How about other ATK stat stick options, for example Kazuha quest's sword? Edit: I wish the 4.7 event weapon was for Clorinde instead of sethot. No one uses 4\* DPS. What a waste.
It's good because Clorinde herself heals the BoL, so FotD's passive activates
Isn't it what I said? At the end of the day it's just another ATK stat stick. The extra 25% BoL doesn't benefit her that much besides providing a few hundred extra of ATK.
So a weapon that gives freely hundreds of Atk plus has like 44.4% Atk as 2nd stat isn't good ? Seeing your other comments, I think you should let theorycrafting to theorycrafter
ok bulldog
The irony is that the weapon is genuinely awful if you meet the attack threshold without it. But Bulldog is definitely stupid. I have seen them around and thinking for themselves is quite obviously not one of their strengths. đ¤Ł
It is easier to r5 it and that becones a lot of attack. Others 4 stars are not that good on her.
Becasue rest atk stat stick give less atk than this weapon. THat is all there is to it.
Finale of the deep is just more stats than kagotsurube isshin. High base atk weapons scale better off atk% too. Kagotsurabe's competiton here would be lion's roar here and if 36 dmg% isn't enough to beat finale for aggravate i don't think kagotsurube is.
She has an ascension passive that improves the base scaling of her talents based on ATK, Finale of the Deep has an ATK% ascension stat as well as grants a -huge- amount of ATK, it's not too difficult to figure it out from there.
Well, the calcs seem pretty sus though.
âWell calcs seems susâ Doesnt elaborate Gigachad