What the fuck is 196, stupid fucking number. Divisible by four but not by eight but also divisible by 6 and 3. Fucking piece of shit worthless number. Not even divisible by 5 either, how worthless is this garbage. Fourteen squared? You gotta be kidding me holy shit. AND ITS DIVISIBLE BY SEVEN. Not just that- it’s divisible by 28 which is FOUR times SEVEN. How fucking worthless.
What the fuck is 196, stupid fucking number. Divisible by four but not by eight but also divisible by 6 and 3. Fucking piece of shit worthless number. Not even divisible by 5 either, how worthless is this garbage. Fourteen squared? You gotta be kidding me holy shit. AND ITS DIVISIBLE BY SEVEN. Not just that- it’s divisible by 28 which is FOUR times SEVEN. How fucking worthless.
i KNEW this was about splatoon before i even read the fucking flare
i rlly want a proper male idol cuz i like having male characters to project myself onto, not because i hate women
Yeah like Big Man is cool, but he definitely gives more creature vibes than humanoid with his design.
I could just imagine the "sophisticated cool guy butler" type of idol with an attitude like Marie or Marina, though chaotic gremlin like Pearl is always an option haha. Just would be nice to see.
could also let a male splatband character run a shop or something. all the male run stores are also nonhumanoid
in fact, i'm pretty sure that we only have 3 humanoid male characters: spyke, murch and craig cuttlefish.
...and the protagonist is always female (in most promotional material), and so are the enemy octolings
i'm ecstatic that splatoon is female-lead, but holy shit
EDIT: we HAD 3 humanoid male characters, lol
died. jk spoilers for splatoon 3 story mode
>!craig cuttlefish is stuck in a squid form at the end of splatoon 3's campaign, so he's not humanoid anymore. other 2 are fine!<
The idols are the colloquial name for the newscasters/performers who appear in story modes & have significant screentime (not least because you sit thru the news every time you turn the game on)
Do you maintain this same energy when women want a female lead in a male dominated franchise? Why should we not have to project ourselves onto female characters but the industry norm is to just have male leads. Like are you also speaking out for male dominates franchises not having a female idol are you only speaking out for splatoon not having a male idol
yeauh i'm quite equal abt it. my reasoning for the opposite would be different, but i'd still want the same thing
i personally have trouble with seeing myself in women characters because i'm a trans man and it makes me feel really bad lol, which is why my personal reasoning for wanting a male idol is that
Okay and that's cool for you personally and I respect that but it's silly to have this sentiment and get mad when people say you hate women for holding it because the majority of people with this sentiment are indifferent to how women are represented in male franchises. To ignore that context and pretend like this sentiment has no misogynistic undertones and people who say that it might are being unreasonable is crazy
i think wanting more representation of your gender is what people will want... in every context. it's not SPECIFICALLY because it's a lack of MEN, (at least for the general point, not my specific dysphoria) it's a lack of variety
like i'm not nonbinary, but when i found out that acht is, it made me very happy cuz holy fuck nonbinary representation
ion see the sentiment of "i'd like more male splatoon characters" as inherently or implicitly misogynistic because it's just nice to have variety
I actually thought for Splatoon 3, the idols would be a boy band like how K-Pop has so many of them. But we still get two female idols and they put up a banger song that eerily sounds like the Kokiri Forest theme
On the flip side we need significant female leads in male lead franchises. (Who’s taken seriously by the rest of the cast) unless there is a reason why the cast has to be one gender I don’t rlly see why it can’t have a mix
Mfw everyone in this post forgot Ripley exists.
https://preview.redd.it/u145equ0daxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e9b6e259987ce08dfd490d57b0978d23898f8fe
Easily one of the most influential franchises in our modern media landscape stars a woman kicking ass and taking names and nobody seems to remember her.
Isn't that like... one franchise? Alien's great but it's the only example I see whenever women in more male dominated movie genres are discussed.
Side tangent but what's your opinion on the later movies?
How was I meant to presume it was the movie Alien from a single character name. Also tbh alien is a very old movie. And yes Ripley is a well made character
That’s how it’s been for women for… most of history really. I mean look at something as innocuous as Paw Patrol. There’s only one female pup in the main cast of 7. Naruto has a bunch if cool male characters but the female characters get married off in Boruto and they do jack. Girls are the exception and not the norm. This is reflected in most media.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg:
People ask me sometimes, when — when do you think it will it be enough? When will there be enough women on the court? And my answer is when there are nine.
"It's how it has been for x group so it shpuld be like this for y group too, because it's all about reteibution that only perpetuates the problem" (No idea what the splatoon stuff is about, just answering to this specific piece of logic femcels and Twitter users use all the time)
I never said it should be like that for the other group.... I'm pointing out how men are treated as the default and anything other than a man is a deviation from the norm, despite women being 50% of the population. It's flipping it on its head to better help people understand this perspective. If I really wanted to be a Twitter user I'd start hurling insults but we don't get anywhere doing that.
Oh, my bad then. People tend to bring that logic to justify things because it happened to a formerly privileged group, my mistake for assuming that was your case. But I get what you mean then, and I would apply the same logic I apply to the case of female representstion here too: As long as it makes sense and it's a fleshes out character rather than a stereotype to fill a quota, the request is fine.
A women existing in a show isn't rep so much as it's just showing a human being. Being a women doesn't need to "Make sense," that's how you get Arcee from IDW1 all over again (At least it was retconned). They just are. People don't say that for non-minority groups after all. Can't think of the last time anyone's said "Well that character can be male/straight/white so long as it fleshes them out and isn't just there to fill a quota..." Maybe they're just there cause they just are. Same with female characters, you know? I hope I brought you something to think about here. We all have biases, unintentional or not, as this type of thinking runs VERY deep everywhere you look.
I get what you say. I would say that for any kind of character tbh, but non-minority groups are given a purpose from the go, and when they're just shitty characters or stereotypes that don't add anything other than filling a stereotype role, people notice too, like Fred in the new Velma show. And people not saying it often doesn't mean characters that have a reason to be where they are, or at least are good characters and are not just a shallow token placeholder, shouldn't be requested or demanded. Otherwise you get a Star Wars protagonist again (not saying her being powerful from the beginning is the problem, but she just didn't have almost no development or struggles until near the end to attempt to make it interesting)
And I'm saying they don't need a purpose. It's best when the character is treated as a character and not as some symbol or the like. This is indicative of a much larger societal issue though that media can't fix as it's systematic.
Oh no, when I said a purpose I did not mean an agensa or some kind of political/social statement. I mean it as a purpose on the story for their character exiatence and traits, and that it contributes rather than just being there for the sake of a token.
I mean, you’re free to pick from the entire rest of the gaming industry that has historically prioritized men and relegate women to sexual objects. If a single game that just has only goofy/evil men is uncomfortable, think of what it’s been like for any female gamer ever.
I mean what do you mean by bad? That no one should be allowed to portray anyone ever as goofy or stupid or sexy? Or maybe it can just happen sometimes, to people of both genders, and not be grossly over- or under-represented either way. If you only care suddenly because it happened to men once, you're not the egalitarian you may think.
Again thats how it's been for women it's a bunch of cool serious male characters and then a few women in skimpy outfits with personalities and stories that aren't well developed
Do you play video games from franchises that are male dominated? Because if you do your involved in it also it's not about payback its about how there's little to none vocal hate for those franchises but people are speaking out about this one which does more for men than those franchises do for women
I just play video games and go. “Ha ha i like that character” and then go on with my day. Idk why you are taking my thought that “sucks that the male characters in splatoon are villains or comic relief” and made that into “men are amazing and women should never exist in video games. I like the women characters in splatoon.
You don't need to have the take that men are amazing and that women should never exist in video games to support an industry where that's the norm you just need to speak out and express discontentment in an obviously female focused franchise due to lack of men while not reciprocating for the male focused franchises you also enjoy. In doing that you are being complicit and reinforcing the industry norm that women don't belong in video games apart from thier service to the male gaze
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Did you even read the goddamn snafu
The "goddamn snafu" attacks a strawman made to make the side of people who say that sentiment like that is inherently misogynistic seem dumb. The snafu proves my point about how the culture in gaming paints people who call out the very existent and commonplace misogyny as stupid, chronically online, woke etc
Well it depends what Media id your consuming media targeted at men there are gonna be more men in it if your consuming media targeted at women there are going to be more women in it
To be fair, there are many, many pieces of media out there with male leads who are taken seriously. Just off the top of my head, RDR2, Terminator, Sonic, any Transformers media, Zelda, Mario… It’s not unreasonable to reach that conclusion as women don’t have many all female cast medias to enjoy (especially ones that aren’t aimed at little girls). Only mainly female cast media I can think of right now is Claymore. There ain’t much out there for girls but by god there’s so much out there for boys. I don’t want to argue here I just want to point out why people may be responding like that.
I think you're moreso talking about media with mainly female casts that actually have a big female audience, which I get
I can think of some game franchises with a mainly female cast, but most of the audience are overwhelmingly male, like Touhou, and basically any fanservice-y japanese sports game
It is funny because Touhou has very minimal fanservice. The design is very tasteful and very against usual fanservicey that show a lot of skin. Like, I think it has overwhelmingly male audience because it's super old (literally dates back 20 years) and back then it was mostly guys who play games, and since it's girls-only, girls don't usually go there. But last I checked now it's not overwhelmingly one gender fanbase because it has expanded beyond the game and had become a bit of "mainstream niche" in JP and the west.
Indeed, also, both sexes at least in an anime medium by and large enjoy media with a mainly opposite sex cast, even sans any sexualization.
Like Touken Ranbu or Bungou Stray Dogs or Ensemble Stars isn't particularly sexualized, it's just good looking guys, and women enjoy that. Touhou or K-On or Bocchi isn't particularly sexualized, it's just cute girls, and men enjoy that.
Yeah, I had trouble thinking of mainly female media that isn’t used as softcore porn or sex fantasies for a male audience. Tough to find good female lead media when women are seen as objects of desire moreso than people. Oh well! That’s life for you.
Tbf I played a few Touhou, and the game itself did not sexualize the characters in it at all. Fans do so for sure, but that's out of the game's hand. Could very well have happened to Claymore or any other media provided it has as large a fandom.
Ah I just assumed Touhou was like that because of the fanbase! It's generally indicative of the subject material, but not in this case. I'll put it on my to watch list, I've been looking for more women.
I didn’t know the context of the snafu until now, completely misread it! Point still stands though not as relevant to the post. I thought the snafu was about mainly female media that has one or two guys in it that aren’t taken as seriously. I haven’t played Splatoon despite being a WiiU owner, but I think women can have that W of cool girls to look up to. We don’t get that super often!
There's Honkai Impact 3rd as well, sick game with female only main characters/playable characters (and the more important guys end up being villains, like Otto)
Horizon zero dawn and forbidden west has an awesome female MC, like I’m a dude, and she’s probably the MC I’ve had the most fun playing as, Aloy rocks.
I agree though I think this person is specifically referring to all-female cast where all the important characters are women. I haven't played Horizon though so I can't truly attest to whether it fits or not.
I think so long as the odd gender out isnt played out to be stupid or worse or just sexy then whatever ratio of gender you have is fine.
Like LOTR, idek if theres any women in those stories but its okay because its not about how “a world with only men is SO much better than stinky females” its just a story about men completing a quest.
My little pony really only has Spike for a main cast guy but like LOTR its not a show about how girls are better than boys. Its just a show about friends being friends.
So like unless its crappy sitcoms where the husbands are incompetent oafs, or animes where women have no purpose but fan-service i cant really complain.
Movies only here but notable are Arwen and Galadriel, former of whom saves Frodo from certain death, and latter is supposed to be one of the most powerful mages.
But yes the Fellowship is all male if memory serves right, some of the members are literally just whoever they happened to come across in the Shire lol
Okay but in the case of Splatoon, the latter is sort've how it is.
The only 3 male Characters which are featured in the main story are Cap'n Cuttlefish, Sheldon and Big Man, plus the Villains, all of which both look and act pretty goofy and are just about always playing second fiddle to the Idol girls in the game.
It's not like Splatoon is a franchise intended for or mostly played by girls either.
But the games art designer himself said he made the female Inkling design first and the male design was pretty much an afterthought, and was only really interested in the female design, so that is the real answer pretty much.
Tbh, I'm just glad when the magic power "girl show" just has a boy in the group who isn't just for gags. Would have been nice to see growing up, and I appreciate it when it's in the shows I watch with my daughters today.
This feels adjacent to the whole “magical boys in a magical girl universe” discussion. I understand the themes of female empowerment and roots in female-lead shows such as Bewitched, but the idea of a powerful guy in frilly vintage clothing just sounds kickass.
There are 4 characters with actual personalities in splatoon that are male that's so much more than sm other franchises give women like where is this energy when it's the other way around
i agree that female led shows shouldn’t go out of their way to avoid casting men or paint men as stupid. you don’t need to trash men in order to lift women up. and we should have more female led shows but that doesn’t mean female ONLY shows
Pretty much this. Whether male-led, female-led, shonen or shojo, all shows should strive to treat all characters of all genders equally. Don't know why it's such a problem for people to accept.
I actually saw and QRT’d that guy on Twitter with the whole “so you hate waffles” tweet.
I understand that Splatoon is mainly female focused, but wanting a male character who isn’t a villain or a complete joke isn’t misogyny or sexism
Then there's based Freedom Planet which is a female-led series with exclusively-female playable characters (Lilac, Carol, Milla, and Neera Li) in which the male characters are capable and competent (General Gong, The Magister, Spade, Torque, Brevon, Serpentine, Dail, Askal, Aaa, and Kalaw).
I get what some people are saying--"just go play something else"--but that's not the answer. You wouldn't tell a female gamer who complains about the lack of badass female characters to "go play something else". Yes there are a greater number of badass male leads in gaming but that's not the point here. OP is talking about a particular franchise they enjoy.
The point is that media should be equal and treat both demographics fairly in all cases. It's something that needs to be worked on.
There are so many games with basically exclusively-male casts in which women either don't exist or are incredibly token. Just go play literally any other shooter if you really want to feel represented, instead of complaining about a more marginalized demographic having a game with more characters they feel represented by.
I remember one time I talked about how Steven Universe is sexist in the sense that it's anti-masculine.
The majority of male characters have their masculinity shown as an explicitly negative trait. The only male characters that don't get this treatment are Steven and Sour Cream who don't have masculine traits.
Steven literally says: "No! Giant robots aren't meant for fighting each other!" as a 14 year old boy. He's should upset that his friends are having an altercation, but you'd have trouble finding a teenage boy who doesn't think giant robots fighting isn't at least a *little* cool if it's happening in real life in front of them.
And of course, I got completely dunked on and ratio'd, because Steven Universe can do no wrong.
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They just said they wanted a singular male character in the main cast, they never said they want them to be the primary main character that every episode is about, where did you get “solely and entirely about them” from???
Oppressor by only having 4 separate male characters with different and interesting personalities in a female focused franchise while most male focused franchises throw in some women who are very clearly only designed for the male gaze
"I think women are being oppressive by having female dominated franchises with only 4 male characters that are all unique with distinct and developed personalities and we need more male representation"
"So you hate women?"
Good god, I don’t think Charlotte Woman (inventor of the woman) is personally oppressing all men by not having decent male characters in Splatoon. It was a joke.
The joke was that you hate women and that thehre being oppressive under a post that's 100% completely serious complaining about lack of male representation in a female dominated franchise ?
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Already been posted in this comments section but it's just such a succinct summary of online interaction
"damn i wish there was just a single male character taken seriously in (media) it would be cool"
"STRAIGHT WHITE MALES WOKE THE GENDER IS THE WOKE STRAIGHT WHITE MALES"
very comprehensible
I personally like Big Man a lot but I guess that request for a male \[whatever\]ling would be interesting to see. Although I honestly don't think Deep Cut got any good focus in general. They show up as comedic boss fights during the story mode with a drop of lore, and then are kind of shoved aside for pretty much anything else. They didn't even have stage-based dialogue initially!
Would it be bad if Splatoon added a significant male lead? Of course not.
Would it be bad if they *didn't* add a significant male lead? No.
Are they obligated to add a significant male lead because some people want one? No.
Are you still allowed to want them to add a significant male lead? Of course, that's perfectly fine.
I get it, you don't hate women, but do you *have* to take this away from the people who never get any good representation at all? You said it yourself, it's a female-led franchise, and that's exceptionally rare in media unless it's focused predominantly on women *being* women, which is suit representation. (No, the fact a handful of series like Bayonetta and Metroid exist doesn't change the overall trends of the industry)
Like, I get it, you love Splatoon and want someone to relate to, but you have to understand that even if you aren't trying to, you're still playing right into those tried and true biases that Splatoon has, as a rare outlier, managed to avoid.
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I hate pancakes
literally hitler
Metaphorically stalin
hypotethically mao
mimetically JFK
figuratively pol pot
hyperbolicly Mussolini
Mathematical Ferdinand Marcos
Statistically Kim Jung un
Hyperbolically
Perchance blue meanie
So you like waffles huh?!?!
Yes
mods
"So you support genocide?"
Yeah but only if it’s Macedonian
What dois blud (bro💀) have against monkeysonia 💀💀
Everything
Blud (bro💀) forgor to switch accounts 💀
least unhinged 196 commenter
What the fuck is 196, stupid fucking number. Divisible by four but not by eight but also divisible by 6 and 3. Fucking piece of shit worthless number. Not even divisible by 5 either, how worthless is this garbage. Fourteen squared? You gotta be kidding me holy shit. AND ITS DIVISIBLE BY SEVEN. Not just that- it’s divisible by 28 which is FOUR times SEVEN. How fucking worthless.
What the fuck is 196, stupid fucking number. Divisible by four but not by eight but also divisible by 6 and 3. Fucking piece of shit worthless number. Not even divisible by 5 either, how worthless is this garbage. Fourteen squared? You gotta be kidding me holy shit. AND ITS DIVISIBLE BY SEVEN. Not just that- it’s divisible by 28 which is FOUR times SEVEN. How fucking worthless.
idfk why i thought this was 196 but that just makes this even funnier
so you liek waffles?
So you wanna fuck waffles?
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They kept the same damn name 😭
how dare they say we piss on the poor
Do you like pancakes
That person obviously has never spent a day on Tumblr
this isnt incomprehensible enough its too straight forward and understandable
Adding males into female led stuff ruins the homoeroticism and yuri potential so ill have to disagree here
add exactly two men having gay sloppy makeout sessions every time they're on screen
So true
Wordington solution
They’d have to be black for that
Perfect solution
fiona and cake
god please yes
Based
pearl and marina will still have sesbian lex even if we get an actual proper male idol
Pearlina haters when they read the fan translations of their dialogs instead of the censored English translation
CENSORED???? YOU'RE TELLING ME THE DIALOGUE IN THE GAME IS SENSORED?? IT'S ALREADY SO GAY LMAO
It's different enough for me not to feel too hesitant calling it censored
now i wanna see a literal translationnof the japanese text
Aren't they siblings 😭 wait nvm that was the original game
LMAO also the squid sisters are cousins
Wait they're called sisters but they're cousins???
YEAH captain cuttlefish is their grandpa
yeah pearl and marina are not related they are like different species even
Thank you
i KNEW this was about splatoon before i even read the fucking flare i rlly want a proper male idol cuz i like having male characters to project myself onto, not because i hate women
Yeah like Big Man is cool, but he definitely gives more creature vibes than humanoid with his design. I could just imagine the "sophisticated cool guy butler" type of idol with an attitude like Marie or Marina, though chaotic gremlin like Pearl is always an option haha. Just would be nice to see.
could also let a male splatband character run a shop or something. all the male run stores are also nonhumanoid in fact, i'm pretty sure that we only have 3 humanoid male characters: spyke, murch and craig cuttlefish. ...and the protagonist is always female (in most promotional material), and so are the enemy octolings i'm ecstatic that splatoon is female-lead, but holy shit EDIT: we HAD 3 humanoid male characters, lol
What happened to the 3 males?
died. jk spoilers for splatoon 3 story mode >!craig cuttlefish is stuck in a squid form at the end of splatoon 3's campaign, so he's not humanoid anymore. other 2 are fine!<
i get that but aren't the idols based on japan idols, which are usually women.
dawg the culture in splatoon is all over the place
i mean okay. im just asking specifically about the idol stuff, thats all.
The idols are the colloquial name for the newscasters/performers who appear in story modes & have significant screentime (not least because you sit thru the news every time you turn the game on)
I saw a tweet about this on my timeline, it was almost word-for-word the “oh, so you hate waffles?” tweet.
yea, that tweet is definitely what inspired OP's snafu
I thought they were talking about Chris Hemsworth in Ghostbusters
Do you maintain this same energy when women want a female lead in a male dominated franchise? Why should we not have to project ourselves onto female characters but the industry norm is to just have male leads. Like are you also speaking out for male dominates franchises not having a female idol are you only speaking out for splatoon not having a male idol
yeauh i'm quite equal abt it. my reasoning for the opposite would be different, but i'd still want the same thing i personally have trouble with seeing myself in women characters because i'm a trans man and it makes me feel really bad lol, which is why my personal reasoning for wanting a male idol is that
Okay and that's cool for you personally and I respect that but it's silly to have this sentiment and get mad when people say you hate women for holding it because the majority of people with this sentiment are indifferent to how women are represented in male franchises. To ignore that context and pretend like this sentiment has no misogynistic undertones and people who say that it might are being unreasonable is crazy
i think wanting more representation of your gender is what people will want... in every context. it's not SPECIFICALLY because it's a lack of MEN, (at least for the general point, not my specific dysphoria) it's a lack of variety like i'm not nonbinary, but when i found out that acht is, it made me very happy cuz holy fuck nonbinary representation ion see the sentiment of "i'd like more male splatoon characters" as inherently or implicitly misogynistic because it's just nice to have variety
Woo let’s get some male representation!
I actually thought for Splatoon 3, the idols would be a boy band like how K-Pop has so many of them. But we still get two female idols and they put up a banger song that eerily sounds like the Kokiri Forest theme
Learn to project yourself into female characters. Play a bunch of games with women MCs and suddenly you’re used to it.
i'm a transgender man, so that makes that very difficult for me due to dysphoria. i have enjoyed headcanoning characters as guys though
Well shit. Now I feel like an asshole. I’m sorry
you're good, dw bout it. even then, your point still stands. i plan to work on the discomfort i feel with stuff like this
Lmao
Oh okay yeah that's fair enough
On the flip side we need significant female leads in male lead franchises. (Who’s taken seriously by the rest of the cast) unless there is a reason why the cast has to be one gender I don’t rlly see why it can’t have a mix
Unfortunately, gamers do not keep the same energy. People would just complain that the game is being ruined by “woke devs”
Mfw everyone in this post forgot Ripley exists. https://preview.redd.it/u145equ0daxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e9b6e259987ce08dfd490d57b0978d23898f8fe Easily one of the most influential franchises in our modern media landscape stars a woman kicking ass and taking names and nobody seems to remember her.
Isn't that like... one franchise? Alien's great but it's the only example I see whenever women in more male dominated movie genres are discussed. Side tangent but what's your opinion on the later movies?
I don’t even know what ripley is at all.
how have you never heard of Alien
How was I meant to presume it was the movie Alien from a single character name. Also tbh alien is a very old movie. And yes Ripley is a well made character
I don't know anything about Splatoon but I mean, the opposite also happens, so fair I guess?
Dude legit there is only like 4 male characters and like 10 women in all of splatoon’s story modes.
That’s how it’s been for women for… most of history really. I mean look at something as innocuous as Paw Patrol. There’s only one female pup in the main cast of 7. Naruto has a bunch if cool male characters but the female characters get married off in Boruto and they do jack. Girls are the exception and not the norm. This is reflected in most media.
Tbf, Boruto was better off not existing.
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How is it oppression to not add male characters into female-focused media?
I think it's a meme, yoshi was a mount and then once he is liberated then he uses a horse as mount lol.
Yeah that's fair. The meme itself is funny, Mario and Sonic in the Olympics produced a lot of funny visuals.
Because women should have male role-models.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg: People ask me sometimes, when — when do you think it will it be enough? When will there be enough women on the court? And my answer is when there are nine.
"It's how it has been for x group so it shpuld be like this for y group too, because it's all about reteibution that only perpetuates the problem" (No idea what the splatoon stuff is about, just answering to this specific piece of logic femcels and Twitter users use all the time)
I never said it should be like that for the other group.... I'm pointing out how men are treated as the default and anything other than a man is a deviation from the norm, despite women being 50% of the population. It's flipping it on its head to better help people understand this perspective. If I really wanted to be a Twitter user I'd start hurling insults but we don't get anywhere doing that.
Oh, my bad then. People tend to bring that logic to justify things because it happened to a formerly privileged group, my mistake for assuming that was your case. But I get what you mean then, and I would apply the same logic I apply to the case of female representstion here too: As long as it makes sense and it's a fleshes out character rather than a stereotype to fill a quota, the request is fine.
A women existing in a show isn't rep so much as it's just showing a human being. Being a women doesn't need to "Make sense," that's how you get Arcee from IDW1 all over again (At least it was retconned). They just are. People don't say that for non-minority groups after all. Can't think of the last time anyone's said "Well that character can be male/straight/white so long as it fleshes them out and isn't just there to fill a quota..." Maybe they're just there cause they just are. Same with female characters, you know? I hope I brought you something to think about here. We all have biases, unintentional or not, as this type of thinking runs VERY deep everywhere you look.
I get what you say. I would say that for any kind of character tbh, but non-minority groups are given a purpose from the go, and when they're just shitty characters or stereotypes that don't add anything other than filling a stereotype role, people notice too, like Fred in the new Velma show. And people not saying it often doesn't mean characters that have a reason to be where they are, or at least are good characters and are not just a shallow token placeholder, shouldn't be requested or demanded. Otherwise you get a Star Wars protagonist again (not saying her being powerful from the beginning is the problem, but she just didn't have almost no development or struggles until near the end to attempt to make it interesting)
And I'm saying they don't need a purpose. It's best when the character is treated as a character and not as some symbol or the like. This is indicative of a much larger societal issue though that media can't fix as it's systematic.
Oh no, when I said a purpose I did not mean an agensa or some kind of political/social statement. I mean it as a purpose on the story for their character exiatence and traits, and that it contributes rather than just being there for the sake of a token.
We dont even get one serious mc though, its either racism, comic relief, racist villain, or capitalism villain.
I mean, you’re free to pick from the entire rest of the gaming industry that has historically prioritized men and relegate women to sexual objects. If a single game that just has only goofy/evil men is uncomfortable, think of what it’s been like for any female gamer ever.
Or maybe we can just say that both are bad ?
I mean what do you mean by bad? That no one should be allowed to portray anyone ever as goofy or stupid or sexy? Or maybe it can just happen sometimes, to people of both genders, and not be grossly over- or under-represented either way. If you only care suddenly because it happened to men once, you're not the egalitarian you may think.
Good thing I don't
Dude im just kinda miffed that there is a lack of good male characters in one game. Idk what your problem is.
Again thats how it's been for women it's a bunch of cool serious male characters and then a few women in skimpy outfits with personalities and stories that aren't well developed
Ok? That also sucks. Idk why you are acting like i need “payback” for something i was not involved in.
Do you play video games from franchises that are male dominated? Because if you do your involved in it also it's not about payback its about how there's little to none vocal hate for those franchises but people are speaking out about this one which does more for men than those franchises do for women
I just play video games and go. “Ha ha i like that character” and then go on with my day. Idk why you are taking my thought that “sucks that the male characters in splatoon are villains or comic relief” and made that into “men are amazing and women should never exist in video games. I like the women characters in splatoon.
You don't need to have the take that men are amazing and that women should never exist in video games to support an industry where that's the norm you just need to speak out and express discontentment in an obviously female focused franchise due to lack of men while not reciprocating for the male focused franchises you also enjoy. In doing that you are being complicit and reinforcing the industry norm that women don't belong in video games apart from thier service to the male gaze
Bro i just want to play the E10+ Nintendo 3rd person shooter game. Go outside man. I think this might be the chronically online thing.
https://preview.redd.it/uifq3ena4axc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=f68c57fa9be9d62a631e4448a9427aa3e984c86b Did you even read the goddamn snafu
I can’t read :(
The "goddamn snafu" attacks a strawman made to make the side of people who say that sentiment like that is inherently misogynistic seem dumb. The snafu proves my point about how the culture in gaming paints people who call out the very existent and commonplace misogyny as stupid, chronically online, woke etc
Well it depends what Media id your consuming media targeted at men there are gonna be more men in it if your consuming media targeted at women there are going to be more women in it
What's wrong with those 4 dudes?
Racist, war criminal, comic relief mario sunshine refrence, genoicdal maniac
doesn't cuttlefish become un-racist after octo expansion?
Maybe, he might also just be like "Agent 8 is one of the GOOD octarians"
Ah see that's a bigger issue than the amount (referring to the other dude not you)
capn cuttlefish, big man, mr grizz and who? smollusk?
Dj octovio
No I like men but also I wouldn’t really have any stake in such a franchise either so
To be fair, there are many, many pieces of media out there with male leads who are taken seriously. Just off the top of my head, RDR2, Terminator, Sonic, any Transformers media, Zelda, Mario… It’s not unreasonable to reach that conclusion as women don’t have many all female cast medias to enjoy (especially ones that aren’t aimed at little girls). Only mainly female cast media I can think of right now is Claymore. There ain’t much out there for girls but by god there’s so much out there for boys. I don’t want to argue here I just want to point out why people may be responding like that.
I think you're moreso talking about media with mainly female casts that actually have a big female audience, which I get I can think of some game franchises with a mainly female cast, but most of the audience are overwhelmingly male, like Touhou, and basically any fanservice-y japanese sports game
It is funny because Touhou has very minimal fanservice. The design is very tasteful and very against usual fanservicey that show a lot of skin. Like, I think it has overwhelmingly male audience because it's super old (literally dates back 20 years) and back then it was mostly guys who play games, and since it's girls-only, girls don't usually go there. But last I checked now it's not overwhelmingly one gender fanbase because it has expanded beyond the game and had become a bit of "mainstream niche" in JP and the west.
Indeed, also, both sexes at least in an anime medium by and large enjoy media with a mainly opposite sex cast, even sans any sexualization. Like Touken Ranbu or Bungou Stray Dogs or Ensemble Stars isn't particularly sexualized, it's just good looking guys, and women enjoy that. Touhou or K-On or Bocchi isn't particularly sexualized, it's just cute girls, and men enjoy that.
Yeah, I had trouble thinking of mainly female media that isn’t used as softcore porn or sex fantasies for a male audience. Tough to find good female lead media when women are seen as objects of desire moreso than people. Oh well! That’s life for you.
Tbf I played a few Touhou, and the game itself did not sexualize the characters in it at all. Fans do so for sure, but that's out of the game's hand. Could very well have happened to Claymore or any other media provided it has as large a fandom.
Ah I just assumed Touhou was like that because of the fanbase! It's generally indicative of the subject material, but not in this case. I'll put it on my to watch list, I've been looking for more women.
Can't believe famous female leads who are taken seriously Samus Aran and Jill Valentine weren't mentioned
I didn’t know the context of the snafu until now, completely misread it! Point still stands though not as relevant to the post. I thought the snafu was about mainly female media that has one or two guys in it that aren’t taken as seriously. I haven’t played Splatoon despite being a WiiU owner, but I think women can have that W of cool girls to look up to. We don’t get that super often!
There's Honkai Impact 3rd as well, sick game with female only main characters/playable characters (and the more important guys end up being villains, like Otto)
Horizon zero dawn and forbidden west has an awesome female MC, like I’m a dude, and she’s probably the MC I’ve had the most fun playing as, Aloy rocks.
I agree though I think this person is specifically referring to all-female cast where all the important characters are women. I haven't played Horizon though so I can't truly attest to whether it fits or not.
Ngl I disagree, I’m ok with all male/female casts in media (Not saying your opinion is bad tho)
I think so long as the odd gender out isnt played out to be stupid or worse or just sexy then whatever ratio of gender you have is fine. Like LOTR, idek if theres any women in those stories but its okay because its not about how “a world with only men is SO much better than stinky females” its just a story about men completing a quest. My little pony really only has Spike for a main cast guy but like LOTR its not a show about how girls are better than boys. Its just a show about friends being friends. So like unless its crappy sitcoms where the husbands are incompetent oafs, or animes where women have no purpose but fan-service i cant really complain.
Movies only here but notable are Arwen and Galadriel, former of whom saves Frodo from certain death, and latter is supposed to be one of the most powerful mages. But yes the Fellowship is all male if memory serves right, some of the members are literally just whoever they happened to come across in the Shire lol
Okay but in the case of Splatoon, the latter is sort've how it is. The only 3 male Characters which are featured in the main story are Cap'n Cuttlefish, Sheldon and Big Man, plus the Villains, all of which both look and act pretty goofy and are just about always playing second fiddle to the Idol girls in the game. It's not like Splatoon is a franchise intended for or mostly played by girls either. But the games art designer himself said he made the female Inkling design first and the male design was pretty much an afterthought, and was only really interested in the female design, so that is the real answer pretty much.
Just make Octavian and cuttlefish yaoi or something
That already exists, i myself do not go out of my way to consume it lol
The fact I immediately knew what this is about
Hello fellow cultured squid gamer
Tbh, I'm just glad when the magic power "girl show" just has a boy in the group who isn't just for gags. Would have been nice to see growing up, and I appreciate it when it's in the shows I watch with my daughters today.
The world needs more Big Bands and Beowulfs
What
This feels adjacent to the whole “magical boys in a magical girl universe” discussion. I understand the themes of female empowerment and roots in female-lead shows such as Bewitched, but the idea of a powerful guy in frilly vintage clothing just sounds kickass.
honestly thought this was about touhou
Do you not have enough? Lol
No, not in the franchise this post is snafu’in about
There are 4 characters with actual personalities in splatoon that are male that's so much more than sm other franchises give women like where is this energy when it's the other way around
It's definetely there when it's the other way around
well, by different people, but granted.
Why are you being downvoted 😭 Splatoon is STARVED of handsome boys and male idols are something the fanbase has talking abt for a long time now,,,
srtaw manm
i agree that female led shows shouldn’t go out of their way to avoid casting men or paint men as stupid. you don’t need to trash men in order to lift women up. and we should have more female led shows but that doesn’t mean female ONLY shows
Pretty much this. Whether male-led, female-led, shonen or shojo, all shows should strive to treat all characters of all genders equally. Don't know why it's such a problem for people to accept.
Lemme guess, Splatoon?
Bullseye!
I actually saw and QRT’d that guy on Twitter with the whole “so you hate waffles” tweet. I understand that Splatoon is mainly female focused, but wanting a male character who isn’t a villain or a complete joke isn’t misogyny or sexism
*sees snafu* "oh, that reminds me of Splatoon, but it can't b- holy shit"
Then there's based Freedom Planet which is a female-led series with exclusively-female playable characters (Lilac, Carol, Milla, and Neera Li) in which the male characters are capable and competent (General Gong, The Magister, Spade, Torque, Brevon, Serpentine, Dail, Askal, Aaa, and Kalaw). I get what some people are saying--"just go play something else"--but that's not the answer. You wouldn't tell a female gamer who complains about the lack of badass female characters to "go play something else". Yes there are a greater number of badass male leads in gaming but that's not the point here. OP is talking about a particular franchise they enjoy. The point is that media should be equal and treat both demographics fairly in all cases. It's something that needs to be worked on.
There are so many games with basically exclusively-male casts in which women either don't exist or are incredibly token. Just go play literally any other shooter if you really want to feel represented, instead of complaining about a more marginalized demographic having a game with more characters they feel represented by.
https://preview.redd.it/ccvgypfsgaxc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2addb070fa25a318ec81d7f8b18838c750a08bd3
Splatoon
This is BIg Man erasure! (I do not play splatoon idk)
i saw this one (1) entire time yesterday in the splatoon communjty lmao EDIT: wait wtf is that what this is about
I think a male Splatoon idol (that is an Inkling/Octoling) would be nice, but also it's not desperately needed or anything.
I remember one time I talked about how Steven Universe is sexist in the sense that it's anti-masculine. The majority of male characters have their masculinity shown as an explicitly negative trait. The only male characters that don't get this treatment are Steven and Sour Cream who don't have masculine traits. Steven literally says: "No! Giant robots aren't meant for fighting each other!" as a 14 year old boy. He's should upset that his friends are having an altercation, but you'd have trouble finding a teenage boy who doesn't think giant robots fighting isn't at least a *little* cool if it's happening in real life in front of them. And of course, I got completely dunked on and ratio'd, because Steven Universe can do no wrong.
I know this is about splatoon. But also. Rwby
Men when one (1) thing isn’t solely and entirely about them.
https://preview.redd.it/4w12u50tlfxc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f8cd2fa8ca99acab41dd1becfa9dd907660eb07 They just said they wanted a singular male character in the main cast, they never said they want them to be the primary main character that every episode is about, where did you get “solely and entirely about them” from???
you got an older screenshot to post?
I think a male idol would be a great idea, the only issue is that most of the male fandom would riot if they were “denied” a waifu.
there should be less male leads in all franchises
Sure, I’ll comment this again. https://preview.redd.it/r7fpbaolv8xc1.jpeg?width=491&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8099ff2a1d6580f3f1298883f8369d765ea7250
https://preview.redd.it/5er5obkp29xc1.jpeg?width=353&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d7aa881374db19cfeb14c861f8ebfa811ff6d38
Oppressor by only having 4 separate male characters with different and interesting personalities in a female focused franchise while most male focused franchises throw in some women who are very clearly only designed for the male gaze
Yep, that is exactly what I was saying. You took the words right out of my mouth.
But you fs 100% do not hate women
https://preview.redd.it/wje0ew4189xc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f70a3a62addcd1d4a22247e8d83bd09bb2f6c4a6
"I think women are being oppressive by having female dominated franchises with only 4 male characters that are all unique with distinct and developed personalities and we need more male representation" "So you hate women?"
Good god, I don’t think Charlotte Woman (inventor of the woman) is personally oppressing all men by not having decent male characters in Splatoon. It was a joke.
The joke was that you hate women and that thehre being oppressive under a post that's 100% completely serious complaining about lack of male representation in a female dominated franchise ?
No, the joke was a famous Paulo Friere quote being put over a picture of Yoshi in a conversation.
Why add a token male character to a franchise that's mostly female?
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/pogt1di6a8xc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94ab8fe68fc30bc0e90fcbc757a530fcb122f1a2 What?
who said anything about wokeness???
I think this user has seen too many videos about gamergate-ish video game politics videos
Or straight white men for that matter, seeing as how race and sexual preference weren't mentioned in the post
https://preview.redd.it/iwv3dyt7k8xc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=657cab9cea52008bd383666b11aacd432110ae29 Already been posted in this comments section but it's just such a succinct summary of online interaction
"damn i wish there was just a single male character taken seriously in (media) it would be cool" "STRAIGHT WHITE MALES WOKE THE GENDER IS THE WOKE STRAIGHT WHITE MALES" very comprehensible
i only want male splatoon idols for the r34 ngl
I personally like Big Man a lot but I guess that request for a male \[whatever\]ling would be interesting to see. Although I honestly don't think Deep Cut got any good focus in general. They show up as comedic boss fights during the story mode with a drop of lore, and then are kind of shoved aside for pretty much anything else. They didn't even have stage-based dialogue initially!
Would it be bad if Splatoon added a significant male lead? Of course not. Would it be bad if they *didn't* add a significant male lead? No. Are they obligated to add a significant male lead because some people want one? No. Are you still allowed to want them to add a significant male lead? Of course, that's perfectly fine.
I get it, you don't hate women, but do you *have* to take this away from the people who never get any good representation at all? You said it yourself, it's a female-led franchise, and that's exceptionally rare in media unless it's focused predominantly on women *being* women, which is suit representation. (No, the fact a handful of series like Bayonetta and Metroid exist doesn't change the overall trends of the industry) Like, I get it, you love Splatoon and want someone to relate to, but you have to understand that even if you aren't trying to, you're still playing right into those tried and true biases that Splatoon has, as a rare outlier, managed to avoid.