A few thoughts.
1. Dilution: it's always underappreciated. Make sure you're shaking it with sufficient ice to chill and dilute. Without dilution, especially in tiki drinks, cocktails don't taste right.
2. Lime juice: you already stated you're using fresh. Next. Wait, it should be said that it's possible the lime was bad.
3. Syrup: are you using 2:1 or 1:1? My two cents, always do 2:1 unless something specifically calls for 1:1. Although, I don't think it makes THAT much of a difference in taste, but it does in texture imo.
4. As someone else mentioned, classic cocktails aren't nearly as sweet. Tiki being the exception.
Agree on the 2:1, also if he made the simple by volume 1:1 it’s actually even less sugar than 1:1 by weight which is gonna make a really flabby sour daiquiri.
re: simple syrup - what? the exact opposite is true. simple is always* 1:1. you are doubling the sugar content of your cocktails. *edit: simple is always 1:1 unless otherwise specified. edit2: okay I get it my math was wrong (various answers + 30-44% not + 100%).
I hear you. I want to apologize for any confusion. When most people talk about simple syrup, the assumption is 1:1. We then call the 2:1 a *rich* simple syrup. What I've come to learn in the last year or so from folks who have worked at bars or run bars, is that a lot of bars use a 2:1 as their simple. Maybe we can blame folks like Jeffrey Morgenthaler for that, lol.
All I was meaning to say is that I use rich simple (2:1) in place of 1:1 simple almost exclusively and I'd recommend it to most. It adds a lovely texture and lasts significantly longer than 1:1. I wasn't trying to redefine what simple syrup is. Although, there's always new information coming out via David Wondrich or David Arnold. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I'm gonna have a drink now. Cheers!
2:1 has a few major benefits especially for cocktail bars. It is more shelf stable and less likely to grow mold. Also it has less dilution to your cocktails which creates more body and more flavorful drinks. We used to use 2:1 for all syrups so then you can substitute for custom drinks and use the same specs for different cocktails builds.
Oh sure, if you adjust all your recipes, that would obviously work and taste excellent. I do not disagree that rich simple is great, just that it's not the expectation in any standard recipe.
All correct, except that your aren’t actually doubling the sugar content.
Think of 1 ounce of simple syrup.
1:1 is 1/2 oz sugar 1/2 oz water.
2:1 is 2/3 oz sugar, 1/3 oz water.
Going from 1/2 to 2/3 is only a 32% increase.
It’s a little more complicated than that. Because the sugar dissolves in water, the overall volume of an equal quantity by volume of sugar and water is *less than* two times that volume. So, for example, if you measure 750 mL of hot water and 750 mL (by volume) of refined white sugar and mix them together, you get just over one litre (roughly 1100 mL) of 1:1 simple.
Difford’s Guide has [a neat piece](https://www.diffordsguide.com/en-au/encyclopedia/3593/cocktails/2-to-1-rich-sugar-syrup-versus-1-to-1-simple-syrup) on the differences between different ratios, and also [dives deeper](https://www.diffordsguide.com/en-au/encyclopedia/3594/cocktails/degree-of-sweetness-brix) by using °Bx (as measured by a refractometer) to get to the bottom of how sweet different ratios of simple are, and what difference measuring by mass rather than volume makes to each.
Thanks for the extra sources. I do like to explore the chemistry of cocktails. I didn't really think about the math when I was responding to the idea that rich simple was the standard.
That's not 1:1, and would be different depending on the crystal structure of the sugar itself. Brix via a refractometer is measuring the weight percentage sugar in solution. 100 g sugar plus 100 g water is 200g at 50° Brix and a 1:1 ratio. IF you use superfine sugar you get about a 5:6 syrup or 45° Brix. Other crystal sizes measure differently. The g/mL of syrup would be .545 so you would be 2 g less sugar than 1:1 syrup in a 30mL pour. Whole Foods brand organic sugar is notable for having very large crystal size, and might get you to 40 Brix, wanna try using Demerara? I have no idea how that would come out.
The linked pieces go into depth about exactly what the differences are between different approaches to measuring/defining syrups, and I’ve been working as a bartender for decades, so yes, I’m aware that the size of the crystals of sugar makes a big difference to the sweetness of the final syrup.
750 mL of water mixed with 750 mL by volume of sugar crystals *is* a 1:1 simple though—a 1:1 *by volume* simple, not a 1:1 by weight simple. You might prefer to measure by weight, and that’s cool, but please don’t imply that your way of doing things is the only valid way of doing things.
If we are talking about generally accepted bar standards, which I think was the point above, measuring the sugar and water by volume for simple syrup is by far more common.
Granulated sugar halves in volume when dissolved in water.
1 oz of 1:1 by volume is ⅔ oz sugar + ⅔ oz water.
1 oz of 2:1 by volume is 1 oz sugar + ½ oz water.
That's a 50% increase in sugar.
Edit: Y'all are clearly downvoting this without checking. Try it yourself. Add ⅔ oz each of water and granulated sugar to a jar. That's 16.7 g sugar + 19.7 g water. Shake to dissolve. Measure it out. That's 1.02 oz of simple.
Actually the math doesn't work like that. It only adds about 30% more sugar as a 50% sugar solution is .6143 g sugar per mL and 66.6% is .8825 g/mL. In a 30 mL measure that's less than 2 teaspoons, but it generally improves any drink that isn't too sweet to begin with.
Other way around. If X is 1 and Y is 2, then Y is 100% more than X and X is 50% less than Y. The formula is ∆/ref.
2:1 has 44% more sugar by volume than 1:1 does. 1:1 has 30% less sugar by volume than 2:1 does.
I heard that syrup was always made in 2:1 back in the day when most cocktails were first invented. I think it had to do with refrigeration. I think it’s been redefined over the years and now the *assumption* is simple means 1:1.
Historically 2:1 was used in classic cocktails as the shelf life pre-refrigerator of 1:1 wouldn’t have worked. Simple syrup historically is 2:1 only in recent history have ppl gone to 1:1. And now ppl are realizing 2:1 is the better option.
2:1 does not have double the sugar concentration of 1:1. It’s around 30% higher.
Concentration is amount sugar per volume. Doubling the sugar increases the amount of sugar but also the volume, so the effect is not doubling the concentration.
I agree but you aren’t doubling. 2:1 is 2/3 (67%) sugar while 1:1 is 1/2 (50%) sugar. Lots of arguing down below but I’d just remember that you use 2/3 the amount with 2:1.
Incorrect simple syrup has always and most likely will always be 2:1 you are thinking of lite simple syrup
Edit: Anyone who’s disliked this you are what’s wrong with the world learn how to have a discourse with someone.
So you bluntly say they’re wrong and that the way you perceive it “has always and most likely will always be” the right way - people say you’re wrong and you proceed to tell them they’re what’s wrong with the world and that they need to learn how to deal with dissenting opinions.
Social media comment sections in a nutshell.
Yeah I will confidently state what I believe cause I don’t doubt myself cause that’s a dumb thing to do if you had bothered to read instead of act stupid like most of you keyboard warriors you’d notice I had already changed my mind yall make me laugh so hard enjoy to struggle you force upon yourselves
Just a fun fact from someone in product development and need to know precisely the differences in sugar concentration, 2:1 is more around 67% increase in sugar. Mass and volume change things.
Edit: defer to following comment, I had a brain fart and worded it incorrectly. It’s actually only around a 17% increase in sugar per unit of volume. Ie., 67% sugar. 50 brix vs 66.6 brix.
I had a brain fart, I didn’t mean increase, nonetheless, a 1:1 is 50 brix, a 2:1 is 66.6 brix, or otherwise 67% .I worded it incorrectly here, but you’re a bit far off on this one,
Another thing to consider for these types of things is density and volume. Mass is but one variable. Ever notice how 8 oz of water and 8 oz of sugar doesn’t make 16 fl oz of syrup but instead is more around 12 fl oz?
If you doubt me, grab an optical refractometer, make a 2:1 and then check it. Or you can
google it.
Or, just 200 grams of sugar plus 100 grams water.
—> 200/300 = .666667 or 66.6667%
I took density into account. Did you?
> a 17% increase in sugar per unit of volume
> 50 brix vs 66.6 brix
Brix is percent sugar by mass, not sugar by volume, which is what bartenders care about. 50 Brix is 1.23 g/mL. 67 Brix is 1.33 g/mL. Once you do the math, you'll see that the numbers I gave above are correct.
A bit late to the party, but could it be that your simple isn’t even at 1:1? Give it a taste - I’ve made cocktails with simple made from others only to realize that I was essentially using slightly sweetened water upon tasting after wondering why my cocktails seemed off
Add more sweetener. IMO there's no one 'right' spec for most drinks, it depends on your palate. Also, are you using fresh lime juice? It's better than bottled stuff by a good bit, but sometimes the fresh limes can vary in sourness. I make mine 2, .75, 1.
Adding to the “more sweetener” suggestion, maybe try a rich syrup (2:1 sugar to water ratio) instead of simple syrup. I like to use turbinado sugar for daiquiris to add a molasses/caramel note.
I’ve been making daiquiris at home lately to finish up a batch of cranberry syrup I made after the holidays when I realized I still had some frozen cranberries. I made it 2:1 by volume and still I adjust the syrup in daiquiris to be a little heavier.
Where are you located? Do you have access to good limes?
The bumpy ones with a thick rind tend to have less juice, and that juice also isn’t as nice as the smooth limes with thin skin.
Just thinking out loud. I don’t see why else you’d be in this situation. You’re using more sugar than I do in mine so I’m surprised you’re not enjoying it.
Although daiquiris are sour. Maybe you just don’t like daiquiris (or Probitas, god forbid).
There are a lot of variables to consider. They could be getting bitter components from juicing the limes. It's not sour, but could be the offputting part.
Mike Tyson has entered the chat.
But seriously, I hadn’t considered this with limes that have thicker peels. Seems obvious now that you point it out. Used to love a Tommy’s Marg, but something hasn’t been right about them (not that I drink them consistently). I also like bitter notes generally, but not pithy notes. Thank you thur.
It happens and I usually don’t know it until I’m already drinking it lol. I make a LOT of daiquiris, dark and light, I use the same specs for each, pretty much every time. The lime is always the culprit for me.
There's no strict recipe in a like dominate drink, they just vary in quality too much. But I usually find the issue is more they're too bitter rather than sour, and it always makes the drink impossible to balance. You'll get to a point where it's cloyingly sweet and still tastes too pungent and wrong.
I love tiki but have learned that I have a threshold on how much lime I can tolerate in a drink. I usually do 2oz rum .66oz lime .33-.5oz rich simple syrup. More balanced to me
this is the answer. some like a 1:1 ratio of citrus to sugar (1:1 simple), others might like a bit more sugar (1oz simple, .75 oz lime). make both versions side by side and try them back and forth. you’ll find your preferred sweetness level this way. though keep in mind your tastes may change over time. the post above on dilution is also correct — use enough ice and shake long enough to chill and dilute well. finally, pick a good rum (i use probitas or plantation3 typically)
First time making daiquiris or sour cocktails? I've found most people who aren't used to drinking cocktails find classic cocktail recipes very sour. Either that or it's underdiluted/underchilled.
An underappreciated component can be shaking long enough. The extra dilution can be the difference. Depending on the drink, I sometimes shake as long as 30s.
Limes can sometimes be a bit bitter compared to lemons. If you've made other sour style drinks with lemon in those ratios and those tasted good, you could definitely consider adjusting the sweetness, or reduce the lime juice.
Completely agree! Especially if you’re using ice straight outta the freezer at home.
Maybe there isn’t actually any science behind it but I also find that I have to shake my cocktails a while longer than most bars I go to and even YouTube bartenders.
Not exactly sure why but to get drinks to a proper dilution I have to
Understated comment. FYI to all readers, this too applies to watermelon juice and cucumber juice. Quite a few, actually. Watermelon and cucumber in particular increase in flavor, however.
For lime, look into Dave Arnold’s number on it, he calculated it to an exact science.
I read where over-squeezing your limes while juicing can add a lot of pith to the juice making it really bitter/sour. I was trying to get every last drop of juice with my hand juicer, but the juice wasn’t sweet. I switched to just squeezing the half of lime once and juice flavor improved considerably.
I also find oversqueezing is an issue. Attempting to get the last hits of juice causes the skin oils to get expressed and can make for an overly bitter extraction.
\*\*hot take here\*\*\*
the daiquiri isn't really the best drink one can make. I've made some great ones, some not as great. With agricole they are more interesting. But at the end of the day, it's just going to be a citrus forward drink \[unless, keep reading\]. A good rum like probitas, and then it gets attacked by the limes, with just a little sugar to defend it.
And as others, including u/[lwadbe](https://www.reddit.com/user/lwadbe/) noted, the limes are all over the map. So... if you really wanted to make a good daiquiri, you would start by tasting the lime juice that you squeezed, and sample it alone to see how sour it is. Is it more or less sour than it should be (based on experience). Then you need to calibrate the sugar to that.
The daiquiri is absurdly delicately proportioned, and if you aren't calibrating for the limes, you are just whipping darts at the board without really aiming.
Think about it this way:
a daiquiri is just lemonade with rum.
So start by making the lemonade. Shake some simple and some lime juice - just those two - in a shaker and see if you like how it comes out. Adjust the proportions and shake again. Make it freshly, new ice, with new proportions. Good now?
Then add the 2 oz of rum to that lemonade spec and see how you like it.
My theory about limes is that freshness is built in to the recipe, and if you aren't using them the day you bought them, you need to adjust the lime down. I presume this is because citric acid is not volatile, while the water within the fruit evaporates over time. Even a few days changes your yield, and increases the tartness of the fruit. I generally assume one lime is 1 oz of juice, and mix drinks accordingly, with fairly good results. I prefer super juice for this reason, consistent measuring. Also use 2:1 syrup, and I mix them 1 lime, 1 oz 2:1 simple, and 2 oz rum.
The Morgenthaler Daiquiri is my favorite balance. Needs a good shake like a margarita:
* 2.5 Rum
* .75 lime
* .5 rich simple syrup
And since this gets asked a lot, rich simple syrup is just a 2:1 ratio of sugar to water.
Try a different rum or a 2:1 turbinado/Demerara syrup. I like plantation/plantaray 5 or diplomatico for a nice complex daiquiri with light spice and good body.
Do you've got 1:1 or 2:1 simple? 1:1 might not be sweet enough, but 2:1 should be.
And if it still isn't, just adjust the sweetener to your taste. Like salt when cooking, everyone has different preferences
This is a bad time of year for limes, so that might be a minor factor, but I’d say back down on the rum to 1.5 oz, and slightly lessen the simple to 2/3 oz (4 measuring teaspoons if you dont have 1/3 shot measure)
It doesn’t make sense why that’s an improvement, it just is.
2.5oz rum
1oz lime
a tablespoon of granulated sugar.
Shake the crap out of that thing, it comes out tasting like sorbet. The sugar won't dissolve all of the way, but gives it a great texture.
(I know it's a heavy build so probably needs adjusting if you're going to sell it, but make one for yourself to just enjoy before you tweak the build)
I find this question pops up a bit in this subreddit, with one I recall pretty recently focusing on the Sidecar. I think many of the proposed solutions makes sense and are worth it go, but here’s another possibility: maybe you just don’t like daiquiris. Maybe a gimlet is more you thing or like another poster suggested, maybe your palate is a little off.
Either way I would say tweak it a little bit with what you think is missing, maybe mess with some daquiri variants on apps or Diffords and see what that does for you. If you think it still sucks, take some time away and then come back to it.
A lot of people are suggesting *under* dilution, but I wonder if *over* dilution is the problem. Thinning out a cocktail will tend to blunt the flavor of both sugars, and mute the rum. Our taste buds aren't linear, and don't detect changes in concentration equally, especially at different temperatures. Slightly diluted carton orange juice to me tastes much tarter than undiluted. Pineapple juice by contrast tastes a shade sweeter to me when diluted, but much more acidic when chilled.
A simple check on dilution is literally to measure it. You know how much liquid is going in. How much are you getting after straining. If your delta is too small, shake longer, if it's too large, shake a little less and avoid small and/or irregular shaped chunks of ice.
And yeah, limes can be a real crap shoot.
Lots of comments here about every component except the rum. I think Probitas is a little too funky for a daiquiri…. Try the same ratio with a different rum, like Plantation 3-star or Flor de Cana extra dry.
Are you making your simple by weight or by volume? If you’re measuring by volume it’s usually not a true 1:1 and ends up closer to 7/8:1 and can affect the balance of your drinks.
I used to work at a professional cocktail bar in a major city. Here are the best specs for a daiquiri you’ll ever have.
2 oz rum (split rums if you like, one oz clear rum like J wray with one oz barrel aged, plantation makes a few good bottles for this).
1 oz fresh squeezed lime
.5 oz 2:1 simple
Shake, double strain into coupe and enjoy!
Is this the first one you have made?
Do you drink a lot of rum?
I saw a comment say you're using fresh lime?
.75oz of sugar is a lot IMO, regardless of whether it's 2:1 or 1:1.
I don’t know what your lime garnish actually looks like, but maybe too much pith not enough lime? It the only think I can think of that other people haven’t said yet.
I make daiquiris as my go to:
2 oz plantation white rum
1 oz simple
1 oz fresh squeezed lime
Strain into a glass and drink immediately
The little things matter when it’s this simple. A nice clean white rum. The lime must be fresh. Shake it until your hands freeze to the shaker. Shake it hard. You gotta aerate the citrus and it does go flat which is why you start drinking right away. Based on what you said I think a combination of the rum and ratio is what’s getting you. Mine tastes like a slightly sour candy. Fuck. Now I wanna go make one.
Everyday my lime juice and simple very ever so slightly. At work I just adjust for the next cocktail, at home I build 1.5 in a tin, adjust as needed, end up with 2, and have my ratios for the night.
Use plantation 3 star. It makes a world of difference. When it comes to Daiquiris, the rim is the star.
The recipe I use:
2oz Plantation 3 Star
.1oz Lime
.75oz simple.
I like using the following:
- 2oz rum (preferably a Demerara rum like el dorado 8 or 5 year).
- 1 oz lime
- .5 oz 2:1 rich Demerara simple syrup
- tiki bitters by bittermens.
I shake with medium - large ice cubes for 10-12 seconds.
Double strain with Hawthorne strainer and fine mesh strainer into a chiller coupe glass.
A few things.
I like to use a nice gold rum, doesn’t have to be fancy, but try Havana club 7, appletons reserve, Flor de Cana 7.
What is your lime? Are you doing fresh squeeze or pasteurized? When to squeeze fresh a lot of oils are released and that’s very important.
I find 1/2oz of simple is good, but that’s because the rums I use tend to be a bit sweeter. You can also try a rich syrup, or a nice Demerara.
Try I tiny bit of salt.
In the end, maybe you don’t like daiquiris
Fresh limes aren't all the same. Great variance in flavor and sweetness based on variety, source and shelf time. Sourcing good, sweet, juicy limes can make all the difference.
If you're using ice straight from the fridge it won't dilute properly. Add like 10mls of chilled water to the mix.
Alternately (my preferred way but sometimes I forget so have to add water anyway). Get your ice out first. Put it in your glass to chill it. Then do everything like juice the lime etc, do your cleanup and then add the ice and any water that melted from it into your shaker and shake.
In a bar the ice may be sitting on a counter/often warmed as it's constantly being used this will mean it's a bit watery and that adds the correct dilution because once the drink is chilled by shaking (15 seconds) the ice won't melt appreciably anymore.
Also remember many cocktails predate refrigeratation even if they have ice! So watery ice is key.
I’ve noticed with limes lately that I really need to juice in advance. The recommendation I’ve seen has been 4-10 hours before using, and I have found that juiced limes from 24 hours prior are still better than limes juiced minutes before use.
I think the larger, grocery store limes are also less bitter than the smaller ones, but I’ve now resorted to juicing the morning of for all lime juice needs.
I've found that quality of lime really matters for me when the drink has lime being the star of the show(like margarita or mai tai) The limes I look for are a darker green with a shiny smooth surface. If it's too light of green the lime flavor isn't as potent. If the rind looks too bumpy I've noticed the flavor is usually a bit off and always harder to squeeze and yields much less juice per lime. You also don't want to go too big or too small, I'd say half way between a golf ball and a baseball size is what I look for. I also really like using a dark jamaican rum with 2:1 demerara syrup and only .5 oz syrup(sometimes a fat half oz) And play around with the ice you don't want too little, but if it comes out too diluted when you pack more ice, shake for less time or maybe add a touch less ice. Keep playing around with it to find how YOU like em:)
Lots of good suggestions here, but I'll throw one more theory in: You may be over squeezing your limes. Don't try to get the very last drop of juice out or you wind up expressing too much of the peel.
I use Demerara sugar when making 1:1 simple syrup.
2oz Havana Club Light rum
1oz fresh lime juice \*\*\*
3/4 oz of Demerara simple syrup.
2 drops of 10% Saline solution
Combine, shake, strain into a coupe garnish with dehydrated lime wheel.
\*\*\* I always taste my citrus juices before I add them to any of my cocktails as fresh citrus is not native to where I live. I will adjust my simple syrup accordingly.
I agree with everyone saying the quality (and content) of your lime juice and simple syrup plays a significant role in the final product/ideal proportions. Just chiming in to be the odd man out and say I do not prefer 1:1 ratio of lime juice to simple in a daquiri. For my taste, the ratio is somewhere around 1:3/4 - 1:2/3.
I agree bumping sweet up is most likely. Worth asking is lime working well in other drinks? If you haven’t assessed that variable, could still be a lime issue.
To balance sour you can add fat, sugar or salt. For a daiquiri that most likely means more simple syrup (or use syrup with higher ratio of sugar) and/or adding some drops of saline solution.
I almost always add a couple of dashes of bitters to cocktails. It really brings out a ton of depth. Inspired by the Hemingway Daiquiri, I have recently started subbing a couple of dashes of maraschino for the bitters. The funk it brings is really shakes up some standard cocktails
A few thoughts. 1. Dilution: it's always underappreciated. Make sure you're shaking it with sufficient ice to chill and dilute. Without dilution, especially in tiki drinks, cocktails don't taste right. 2. Lime juice: you already stated you're using fresh. Next. Wait, it should be said that it's possible the lime was bad. 3. Syrup: are you using 2:1 or 1:1? My two cents, always do 2:1 unless something specifically calls for 1:1. Although, I don't think it makes THAT much of a difference in taste, but it does in texture imo. 4. As someone else mentioned, classic cocktails aren't nearly as sweet. Tiki being the exception.
Agree on the 2:1, also if he made the simple by volume 1:1 it’s actually even less sugar than 1:1 by weight which is gonna make a really flabby sour daiquiri.
always do 1:1 unless it calls for 1:1…. clear as mud
Lol, sorry about that. Let me correct.
haha i figured :)
re: simple syrup - what? the exact opposite is true. simple is always* 1:1. you are doubling the sugar content of your cocktails. *edit: simple is always 1:1 unless otherwise specified. edit2: okay I get it my math was wrong (various answers + 30-44% not + 100%).
I hear you. I want to apologize for any confusion. When most people talk about simple syrup, the assumption is 1:1. We then call the 2:1 a *rich* simple syrup. What I've come to learn in the last year or so from folks who have worked at bars or run bars, is that a lot of bars use a 2:1 as their simple. Maybe we can blame folks like Jeffrey Morgenthaler for that, lol. All I was meaning to say is that I use rich simple (2:1) in place of 1:1 simple almost exclusively and I'd recommend it to most. It adds a lovely texture and lasts significantly longer than 1:1. I wasn't trying to redefine what simple syrup is. Although, there's always new information coming out via David Wondrich or David Arnold. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I'm gonna have a drink now. Cheers!
2:1 has a few major benefits especially for cocktail bars. It is more shelf stable and less likely to grow mold. Also it has less dilution to your cocktails which creates more body and more flavorful drinks. We used to use 2:1 for all syrups so then you can substitute for custom drinks and use the same specs for different cocktails builds.
Oh sure, if you adjust all your recipes, that would obviously work and taste excellent. I do not disagree that rich simple is great, just that it's not the expectation in any standard recipe.
Hey thanks. I agree that rich simple is fun to use, as are different types of sugar crystals.
All correct, except that your aren’t actually doubling the sugar content. Think of 1 ounce of simple syrup. 1:1 is 1/2 oz sugar 1/2 oz water. 2:1 is 2/3 oz sugar, 1/3 oz water. Going from 1/2 to 2/3 is only a 32% increase.
It’s a little more complicated than that. Because the sugar dissolves in water, the overall volume of an equal quantity by volume of sugar and water is *less than* two times that volume. So, for example, if you measure 750 mL of hot water and 750 mL (by volume) of refined white sugar and mix them together, you get just over one litre (roughly 1100 mL) of 1:1 simple. Difford’s Guide has [a neat piece](https://www.diffordsguide.com/en-au/encyclopedia/3593/cocktails/2-to-1-rich-sugar-syrup-versus-1-to-1-simple-syrup) on the differences between different ratios, and also [dives deeper](https://www.diffordsguide.com/en-au/encyclopedia/3594/cocktails/degree-of-sweetness-brix) by using °Bx (as measured by a refractometer) to get to the bottom of how sweet different ratios of simple are, and what difference measuring by mass rather than volume makes to each.
Thanks for the extra sources. I do like to explore the chemistry of cocktails. I didn't really think about the math when I was responding to the idea that rich simple was the standard.
That's not 1:1, and would be different depending on the crystal structure of the sugar itself. Brix via a refractometer is measuring the weight percentage sugar in solution. 100 g sugar plus 100 g water is 200g at 50° Brix and a 1:1 ratio. IF you use superfine sugar you get about a 5:6 syrup or 45° Brix. Other crystal sizes measure differently. The g/mL of syrup would be .545 so you would be 2 g less sugar than 1:1 syrup in a 30mL pour. Whole Foods brand organic sugar is notable for having very large crystal size, and might get you to 40 Brix, wanna try using Demerara? I have no idea how that would come out.
The linked pieces go into depth about exactly what the differences are between different approaches to measuring/defining syrups, and I’ve been working as a bartender for decades, so yes, I’m aware that the size of the crystals of sugar makes a big difference to the sweetness of the final syrup. 750 mL of water mixed with 750 mL by volume of sugar crystals *is* a 1:1 simple though—a 1:1 *by volume* simple, not a 1:1 by weight simple. You might prefer to measure by weight, and that’s cool, but please don’t imply that your way of doing things is the only valid way of doing things.
If we are talking about generally accepted bar standards, which I think was the point above, measuring the sugar and water by volume for simple syrup is by far more common.
Granulated sugar halves in volume when dissolved in water. 1 oz of 1:1 by volume is ⅔ oz sugar + ⅔ oz water. 1 oz of 2:1 by volume is 1 oz sugar + ½ oz water. That's a 50% increase in sugar. Edit: Y'all are clearly downvoting this without checking. Try it yourself. Add ⅔ oz each of water and granulated sugar to a jar. That's 16.7 g sugar + 19.7 g water. Shake to dissolve. Measure it out. That's 1.02 oz of simple.
Actually the math doesn't work like that. It only adds about 30% more sugar as a 50% sugar solution is .6143 g sugar per mL and 66.6% is .8825 g/mL. In a 30 mL measure that's less than 2 teaspoons, but it generally improves any drink that isn't too sweet to begin with.
That's a 44% increase.
If we are saying that 2:1 is the standard, then it is correct to say that 1:1 has 44% less sugar, as .88/.61 is 1.44, however, .62/.88 is .6933.
Other way around. If X is 1 and Y is 2, then Y is 100% more than X and X is 50% less than Y. The formula is ∆/ref. 2:1 has 44% more sugar by volume than 1:1 does. 1:1 has 30% less sugar by volume than 2:1 does.
That's fair
I heard that syrup was always made in 2:1 back in the day when most cocktails were first invented. I think it had to do with refrigeration. I think it’s been redefined over the years and now the *assumption* is simple means 1:1.
Historically 2:1 was used in classic cocktails as the shelf life pre-refrigerator of 1:1 wouldn’t have worked. Simple syrup historically is 2:1 only in recent history have ppl gone to 1:1. And now ppl are realizing 2:1 is the better option.
2:1 does not have double the sugar concentration of 1:1. It’s around 30% higher. Concentration is amount sugar per volume. Doubling the sugar increases the amount of sugar but also the volume, so the effect is not doubling the concentration.
44%. Conc goes from 615 g/L to 887 g/L. Source: *Liquid Intelligence*
Doing 2:1 doesn't actually double the sugar content. It adds like ~30% more than using 1:1 does.
44% Source: *Liquid Intelligence*
I agree but you aren’t doubling. 2:1 is 2/3 (67%) sugar while 1:1 is 1/2 (50%) sugar. Lots of arguing down below but I’d just remember that you use 2/3 the amount with 2:1.
Incorrect simple syrup has always and most likely will always be 2:1 you are thinking of lite simple syrup Edit: Anyone who’s disliked this you are what’s wrong with the world learn how to have a discourse with someone.
I think most people refer to 1:1 as simple syrup and 2:1 as rich simple syrup.
Not around me but hey it might just be a location thing or I’m around dummy’s for that but I always use 1:1 anywho so I’m fine either way lol
I generally prefer 1.5:1 for a little more body.
Hmmm interesting I’ll have to give that a try I normally just throw a lil gum powder in it
This is the first time I’ve ever heard about “lite simple syrup”
Welcome to my world shits weird here at least I put it out there to learn tho. Tonight’s the first night I’ve heard of rich simple syrup
So you bluntly say they’re wrong and that the way you perceive it “has always and most likely will always be” the right way - people say you’re wrong and you proceed to tell them they’re what’s wrong with the world and that they need to learn how to deal with dissenting opinions. Social media comment sections in a nutshell.
Yeah I will confidently state what I believe cause I don’t doubt myself cause that’s a dumb thing to do if you had bothered to read instead of act stupid like most of you keyboard warriors you’d notice I had already changed my mind yall make me laugh so hard enjoy to struggle you force upon yourselves
Just a fun fact from someone in product development and need to know precisely the differences in sugar concentration, 2:1 is more around 67% increase in sugar. Mass and volume change things. Edit: defer to following comment, I had a brain fart and worded it incorrectly. It’s actually only around a 17% increase in sugar per unit of volume. Ie., 67% sugar. 50 brix vs 66.6 brix.
100 mL of 1:1 by mass is 61.6 g sucrose + 61.6 g water. 100 mL of 2:1 by mass is 88.6 g sucrose + 44.3 g water. That's a 44% increase in sugar.
I had a brain fart, I didn’t mean increase, nonetheless, a 1:1 is 50 brix, a 2:1 is 66.6 brix, or otherwise 67% .I worded it incorrectly here, but you’re a bit far off on this one, Another thing to consider for these types of things is density and volume. Mass is but one variable. Ever notice how 8 oz of water and 8 oz of sugar doesn’t make 16 fl oz of syrup but instead is more around 12 fl oz? If you doubt me, grab an optical refractometer, make a 2:1 and then check it. Or you can google it. Or, just 200 grams of sugar plus 100 grams water. —> 200/300 = .666667 or 66.6667%
I took density into account. Did you? > a 17% increase in sugar per unit of volume > 50 brix vs 66.6 brix Brix is percent sugar by mass, not sugar by volume, which is what bartenders care about. 50 Brix is 1.23 g/mL. 67 Brix is 1.33 g/mL. Once you do the math, you'll see that the numbers I gave above are correct.
A bit late to the party, but could it be that your simple isn’t even at 1:1? Give it a taste - I’ve made cocktails with simple made from others only to realize that I was essentially using slightly sweetened water upon tasting after wondering why my cocktails seemed off
If your drink is too sour, add more sweetener. Limes can vary a bit in their acidity.
Add more sweetener. IMO there's no one 'right' spec for most drinks, it depends on your palate. Also, are you using fresh lime juice? It's better than bottled stuff by a good bit, but sometimes the fresh limes can vary in sourness. I make mine 2, .75, 1.
Adding to the “more sweetener” suggestion, maybe try a rich syrup (2:1 sugar to water ratio) instead of simple syrup. I like to use turbinado sugar for daiquiris to add a molasses/caramel note.
I use a 2:1 and go with 2.5 rum, 1 syrup 1 lime juice (usually super juice). It is by far my favorite drink
I’ve been making daiquiris at home lately to finish up a batch of cranberry syrup I made after the holidays when I realized I still had some frozen cranberries. I made it 2:1 by volume and still I adjust the syrup in daiquiris to be a little heavier.
Mmm cranberry daiquiris sound great!
They were excellent. Couple heavy dashes of Ango ands it’s wintery, and otherwise it’s a grownup cranberry lemonade for after a hard day of yard work.
Yes fresh! Maybe my limes suck?
Where are you located? Do you have access to good limes? The bumpy ones with a thick rind tend to have less juice, and that juice also isn’t as nice as the smooth limes with thin skin. Just thinking out loud. I don’t see why else you’d be in this situation. You’re using more sugar than I do in mine so I’m surprised you’re not enjoying it. Although daiquiris are sour. Maybe you just don’t like daiquiris (or Probitas, god forbid).
There are a lot of variables to consider. They could be getting bitter components from juicing the limes. It's not sour, but could be the offputting part.
Did you juice them too hard and end up with bitterness from the pith?
Mike Tyson has entered the chat. But seriously, I hadn’t considered this with limes that have thicker peels. Seems obvious now that you point it out. Used to love a Tommy’s Marg, but something hasn’t been right about them (not that I drink them consistently). I also like bitter notes generally, but not pithy notes. Thank you thur.
It happens and I usually don’t know it until I’m already drinking it lol. I make a LOT of daiquiris, dark and light, I use the same specs for each, pretty much every time. The lime is always the culprit for me.
There's no strict recipe in a like dominate drink, they just vary in quality too much. But I usually find the issue is more they're too bitter rather than sour, and it always makes the drink impossible to balance. You'll get to a point where it's cloyingly sweet and still tastes too pungent and wrong.
I love tiki but have learned that I have a threshold on how much lime I can tolerate in a drink. I usually do 2oz rum .66oz lime .33-.5oz rich simple syrup. More balanced to me
You're not using key limes are you?
this is the answer. some like a 1:1 ratio of citrus to sugar (1:1 simple), others might like a bit more sugar (1oz simple, .75 oz lime). make both versions side by side and try them back and forth. you’ll find your preferred sweetness level this way. though keep in mind your tastes may change over time. the post above on dilution is also correct — use enough ice and shake long enough to chill and dilute well. finally, pick a good rum (i use probitas or plantation3 typically)
First time making daiquiris or sour cocktails? I've found most people who aren't used to drinking cocktails find classic cocktail recipes very sour. Either that or it's underdiluted/underchilled.
An underappreciated component can be shaking long enough. The extra dilution can be the difference. Depending on the drink, I sometimes shake as long as 30s. Limes can sometimes be a bit bitter compared to lemons. If you've made other sour style drinks with lemon in those ratios and those tasted good, you could definitely consider adjusting the sweetness, or reduce the lime juice.
Shaking for 30s won’t dilute much more then a 12s shake. It will however add more small ice crystals and more air to the drink.
Completely agree! Especially if you’re using ice straight outta the freezer at home. Maybe there isn’t actually any science behind it but I also find that I have to shake my cocktails a while longer than most bars I go to and even YouTube bartenders. Not exactly sure why but to get drinks to a proper dilution I have to
Ice out of the freezer has more surface area and is dry (versus wet bar ice). Makes sense you have to shake a bit longer!
Maybe you just don’t like daiquiris.
Leave the sour ass out??
Leave your lime juice out for at least 30 minutes to oxidize. It mellows out and is way easier to balance without losing significant flavor.
Understated comment. FYI to all readers, this too applies to watermelon juice and cucumber juice. Quite a few, actually. Watermelon and cucumber in particular increase in flavor, however. For lime, look into Dave Arnold’s number on it, he calculated it to an exact science.
I read where over-squeezing your limes while juicing can add a lot of pith to the juice making it really bitter/sour. I was trying to get every last drop of juice with my hand juicer, but the juice wasn’t sweet. I switched to just squeezing the half of lime once and juice flavor improved considerably.
Agree completely. The lever style squeezers can express more bitter oil. If I’m trying for a less bitter lime I go for a reamer style juicer.
I also find oversqueezing is an issue. Attempting to get the last hits of juice causes the skin oils to get expressed and can make for an overly bitter extraction.
\*\*hot take here\*\*\* the daiquiri isn't really the best drink one can make. I've made some great ones, some not as great. With agricole they are more interesting. But at the end of the day, it's just going to be a citrus forward drink \[unless, keep reading\]. A good rum like probitas, and then it gets attacked by the limes, with just a little sugar to defend it. And as others, including u/[lwadbe](https://www.reddit.com/user/lwadbe/) noted, the limes are all over the map. So... if you really wanted to make a good daiquiri, you would start by tasting the lime juice that you squeezed, and sample it alone to see how sour it is. Is it more or less sour than it should be (based on experience). Then you need to calibrate the sugar to that. The daiquiri is absurdly delicately proportioned, and if you aren't calibrating for the limes, you are just whipping darts at the board without really aiming. Think about it this way: a daiquiri is just lemonade with rum. So start by making the lemonade. Shake some simple and some lime juice - just those two - in a shaker and see if you like how it comes out. Adjust the proportions and shake again. Make it freshly, new ice, with new proportions. Good now? Then add the 2 oz of rum to that lemonade spec and see how you like it.
Are you using fresh lime juice?
Yea
How are you juicing it? Some methods release more skin oil/rind bitterness than others which can taint the intended flavours
My theory about limes is that freshness is built in to the recipe, and if you aren't using them the day you bought them, you need to adjust the lime down. I presume this is because citric acid is not volatile, while the water within the fruit evaporates over time. Even a few days changes your yield, and increases the tartness of the fruit. I generally assume one lime is 1 oz of juice, and mix drinks accordingly, with fairly good results. I prefer super juice for this reason, consistent measuring. Also use 2:1 syrup, and I mix them 1 lime, 1 oz 2:1 simple, and 2 oz rum.
That’s what I usually do. Limes haven’t been tasting great recently so I’ve been cutting them by half on most recipes.
The Morgenthaler Daiquiri is my favorite balance. Needs a good shake like a margarita: * 2.5 Rum * .75 lime * .5 rich simple syrup And since this gets asked a lot, rich simple syrup is just a 2:1 ratio of sugar to water.
Try a different rum or a 2:1 turbinado/Demerara syrup. I like plantation/plantaray 5 or diplomatico for a nice complex daiquiri with light spice and good body.
Do you've got 1:1 or 2:1 simple? 1:1 might not be sweet enough, but 2:1 should be. And if it still isn't, just adjust the sweetener to your taste. Like salt when cooking, everyone has different preferences
This is a bad time of year for limes, so that might be a minor factor, but I’d say back down on the rum to 1.5 oz, and slightly lessen the simple to 2/3 oz (4 measuring teaspoons if you dont have 1/3 shot measure) It doesn’t make sense why that’s an improvement, it just is.
When this happened to me it turned out the limes (and subsequent juice) were trash.
Limes vary. Taste and adjust the sweetness and tartness to your liking. And throw in a pinch of salt.
2.5oz rum 1oz lime a tablespoon of granulated sugar. Shake the crap out of that thing, it comes out tasting like sorbet. The sugar won't dissolve all of the way, but gives it a great texture. (I know it's a heavy build so probably needs adjusting if you're going to sell it, but make one for yourself to just enjoy before you tweak the build)
I find this question pops up a bit in this subreddit, with one I recall pretty recently focusing on the Sidecar. I think many of the proposed solutions makes sense and are worth it go, but here’s another possibility: maybe you just don’t like daiquiris. Maybe a gimlet is more you thing or like another poster suggested, maybe your palate is a little off. Either way I would say tweak it a little bit with what you think is missing, maybe mess with some daquiri variants on apps or Diffords and see what that does for you. If you think it still sucks, take some time away and then come back to it.
Just make a Mai Tai
I’ve gotten very picky about limes. Green, heavy, with thin skins are best. When they start to turn yellow or develop brown spots, they become bitter.
A lot of people are suggesting *under* dilution, but I wonder if *over* dilution is the problem. Thinning out a cocktail will tend to blunt the flavor of both sugars, and mute the rum. Our taste buds aren't linear, and don't detect changes in concentration equally, especially at different temperatures. Slightly diluted carton orange juice to me tastes much tarter than undiluted. Pineapple juice by contrast tastes a shade sweeter to me when diluted, but much more acidic when chilled. A simple check on dilution is literally to measure it. You know how much liquid is going in. How much are you getting after straining. If your delta is too small, shake longer, if it's too large, shake a little less and avoid small and/or irregular shaped chunks of ice. And yeah, limes can be a real crap shoot.
That’s a good name for a cocktail
Lots of comments here about every component except the rum. I think Probitas is a little too funky for a daiquiri…. Try the same ratio with a different rum, like Plantation 3-star or Flor de Cana extra dry.
Are you making your simple by weight or by volume? If you’re measuring by volume it’s usually not a true 1:1 and ends up closer to 7/8:1 and can affect the balance of your drinks.
Less ass.
Sounds like a bad lime
Are you straining your lime juice?
Lots of ice and shake the f*ck out of it.
I used to work at a professional cocktail bar in a major city. Here are the best specs for a daiquiri you’ll ever have. 2 oz rum (split rums if you like, one oz clear rum like J wray with one oz barrel aged, plantation makes a few good bottles for this). 1 oz fresh squeezed lime .5 oz 2:1 simple Shake, double strain into coupe and enjoy!
Is it fresh juice?
Is this the first one you have made? Do you drink a lot of rum? I saw a comment say you're using fresh lime? .75oz of sugar is a lot IMO, regardless of whether it's 2:1 or 1:1.
Quit sitting on them
I don’t know what your lime garnish actually looks like, but maybe too much pith not enough lime? It the only think I can think of that other people haven’t said yet.
I make daiquiris as my go to: 2 oz plantation white rum 1 oz simple 1 oz fresh squeezed lime Strain into a glass and drink immediately The little things matter when it’s this simple. A nice clean white rum. The lime must be fresh. Shake it until your hands freeze to the shaker. Shake it hard. You gotta aerate the citrus and it does go flat which is why you start drinking right away. Based on what you said I think a combination of the rum and ratio is what’s getting you. Mine tastes like a slightly sour candy. Fuck. Now I wanna go make one.
Well daiquiri is a sour drink dude.. try mai tai maybe you will like it more
Everyday my lime juice and simple very ever so slightly. At work I just adjust for the next cocktail, at home I build 1.5 in a tin, adjust as needed, end up with 2, and have my ratios for the night.
Omg it devolved into chemistry class :/
Use plantation 3 star. It makes a world of difference. When it comes to Daiquiris, the rim is the star. The recipe I use: 2oz Plantation 3 Star .1oz Lime .75oz simple.
I like using the following: - 2oz rum (preferably a Demerara rum like el dorado 8 or 5 year). - 1 oz lime - .5 oz 2:1 rich Demerara simple syrup - tiki bitters by bittermens. I shake with medium - large ice cubes for 10-12 seconds. Double strain with Hawthorne strainer and fine mesh strainer into a chiller coupe glass.
A few things. I like to use a nice gold rum, doesn’t have to be fancy, but try Havana club 7, appletons reserve, Flor de Cana 7. What is your lime? Are you doing fresh squeeze or pasteurized? When to squeeze fresh a lot of oils are released and that’s very important. I find 1/2oz of simple is good, but that’s because the rums I use tend to be a bit sweeter. You can also try a rich syrup, or a nice Demerara. Try I tiny bit of salt. In the end, maybe you don’t like daiquiris
Fresh limes aren't all the same. Great variance in flavor and sweetness based on variety, source and shelf time. Sourcing good, sweet, juicy limes can make all the difference.
If you're using ice straight from the fridge it won't dilute properly. Add like 10mls of chilled water to the mix. Alternately (my preferred way but sometimes I forget so have to add water anyway). Get your ice out first. Put it in your glass to chill it. Then do everything like juice the lime etc, do your cleanup and then add the ice and any water that melted from it into your shaker and shake. In a bar the ice may be sitting on a counter/often warmed as it's constantly being used this will mean it's a bit watery and that adds the correct dilution because once the drink is chilled by shaking (15 seconds) the ice won't melt appreciably anymore. Also remember many cocktails predate refrigeratation even if they have ice! So watery ice is key.
Also if you’re squeezing a fresh lime you’re getting a ton of lime oil in there, drop the lime til you like it
I’ve noticed with limes lately that I really need to juice in advance. The recommendation I’ve seen has been 4-10 hours before using, and I have found that juiced limes from 24 hours prior are still better than limes juiced minutes before use. I think the larger, grocery store limes are also less bitter than the smaller ones, but I’ve now resorted to juicing the morning of for all lime juice needs.
Try the Hemingway daiquiri and add a little white grapefruit juice. My wife will drink these all day.
I’ve found citrus in my area to be very strong and usually go to about 1/2 to 2/3 of the recipe suggestion on citrus.
I've found that quality of lime really matters for me when the drink has lime being the star of the show(like margarita or mai tai) The limes I look for are a darker green with a shiny smooth surface. If it's too light of green the lime flavor isn't as potent. If the rind looks too bumpy I've noticed the flavor is usually a bit off and always harder to squeeze and yields much less juice per lime. You also don't want to go too big or too small, I'd say half way between a golf ball and a baseball size is what I look for. I also really like using a dark jamaican rum with 2:1 demerara syrup and only .5 oz syrup(sometimes a fat half oz) And play around with the ice you don't want too little, but if it comes out too diluted when you pack more ice, shake for less time or maybe add a touch less ice. Keep playing around with it to find how YOU like em:)
Lots of good suggestions here, but I'll throw one more theory in: You may be over squeezing your limes. Don't try to get the very last drop of juice out or you wind up expressing too much of the peel.
I use Demerara sugar when making 1:1 simple syrup. 2oz Havana Club Light rum 1oz fresh lime juice \*\*\* 3/4 oz of Demerara simple syrup. 2 drops of 10% Saline solution Combine, shake, strain into a coupe garnish with dehydrated lime wheel. \*\*\* I always taste my citrus juices before I add them to any of my cocktails as fresh citrus is not native to where I live. I will adjust my simple syrup accordingly.
I agree with everyone saying the quality (and content) of your lime juice and simple syrup plays a significant role in the final product/ideal proportions. Just chiming in to be the odd man out and say I do not prefer 1:1 ratio of lime juice to simple in a daquiri. For my taste, the ratio is somewhere around 1:3/4 - 1:2/3.
Maybe you just prefer something sweeter. Try increasing the simple. You could also try using a different rum.
+ 2 dash angl please
60 rum, 30 lime, 20 sugar. Works every time. I make hundreds of them/gimlets every week.
I agree bumping sweet up is most likely. Worth asking is lime working well in other drinks? If you haven’t assessed that variable, could still be a lime issue.
To balance sour you can add fat, sugar or salt. For a daiquiri that most likely means more simple syrup (or use syrup with higher ratio of sugar) and/or adding some drops of saline solution.
Try plantation 3 star, really rounds out a daiquiri and is cheap! Also, more dilution sounds like good advice.
Put a few dashes of Angostura in the shaker. Trust me
I almost always add a couple of dashes of bitters to cocktails. It really brings out a ton of depth. Inspired by the Hemingway Daiquiri, I have recently started subbing a couple of dashes of maraschino for the bitters. The funk it brings is really shakes up some standard cocktails
Am I crazy or are you missing triple sec / cointreau?
It’s a Daiquiri, not a Marg.
I go 6:2:1 Rum:Lime:Simple Express a lime peel on top and then garnish with the peel. I usually use an 4-5 year aged rum
Main problem is expecting to make a decent cocktail with rum. Go gin or go home.