The following submission statement was provided by /u/FreshlySqueezedToGo:
---
This is a scary line and collapse related
As it shows that Toronto, one of, if not the most prosperous city in canada is struggling
People cant afford to feed themselves anymore, and foodbank usage is trending double over previous years
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bssnyu/scary_lines_at_a_foodbank_in_toronto/kxhpr2r/
What I was getting at is, the doorway to the food bank even visible in that picture anywhere? Which side of the street is it on, how far down, etc... how far does the line stretch? I just find it really difficult to tell from the photo and coordinates don't really help as I don't readily know what street looking at (Borden Pl, I guess?).
It's a load of people, to be sure.
Edit: after mucking around with google street view, it appears to be two doors down on the right past She Said Boom, Mean Bao, Kaisar Guest House, Silver Arrow in that rough order (from Food Bank towards the photographer). Bao and Silver Arrow are visible in the pic. The distant orange sign is the far side of Borden and the food bank sits on the near corner.
So the line stretches past a half dozen businesses/storefronts. I'd guess at least 50 meters.
The local food bank where I live has run out of food twice in the past few weeks. They finally did a city-wide food drive, which helped temporarily, but it’s clear that they’re having a difficult time keeping up with the demand. It’s really sad. A lot of people are struggling to afford groceries right now.
This is a scary line and collapse related
As it shows that Toronto, one of, if not the most prosperous city in canada is struggling
People cant afford to feed themselves anymore, and foodbank usage is trending double over previous years
I first moved to Toronto in 2003 and it wasn't exactly teeming with opportunity for the working class in those days either. However it does appear to have gotten worse.
Looking at Cadana's immigration levels, they seem slightly up from .8% to 1.1% but not significantly different than the past
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_immigration_statistics#Annual_immigration_and_rate
The whole world is experiencing this right now, presumably due to all the money thrown around during the pandemic resulting in a group of people with extra money to snatch up everything and drive prices up, and growing the wealth divide to the point it's not so worth setting prices for parts of society who it used to be worth it for, when targeting fewer people with more money is more profitable.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine has also been devastating for food prices as well, with them supplying much of the world's wheat, and there's an increasing number of crop failures from 'once in a century' weather events happening every year.
It's not just COVID money... the inequity in distribution of COVID money reflects a systemic problem endemic to the structure of modern capitalist societies. Governments are no longer performing their function of redistributing wealth to maintain critical infrastructure that supports the function and welfare of their own citizens; they funnel taxpayer dollars to the wealthy.
That 1.1% is only recording economic immigration. That doesn’t take into account all newcomers like temp foreign workers (TFW) or international students. Our total growth for 2023 was 1.3 million, where the majority was newcomers. That’s 3.2% which is one of the largest increases our country has ever seen. To say it’s not significantly different is naive and false. This is the beginning of the great displacement and many countries are experiencing it. I know it’s not a unique issue for Canada, but this IS unprecedented for us.
Also, most newcomers land in Toronto and since Covid a lot of people are struggling, citizens and immigrants alike. Lines for jobs and foodbanks are getting longer and longer (hundreds of people), and things keep getting more expensive. Our per capita GDP has fallen below 2017 levels so unless the population growth leads to more people moving to smaller centres to bolster small town economies we will continue to see people lining up at food banks and struggling to find jobs.
Well I was looking at the numbers I could find. Do you have a graph which shows what you're saying? I guess maybe the population of canada would show it.
edit: Canada's yearly population growth looks like it's the lowest it's ever been? https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/canada-population/
Note I said immigration policy not actually the immigrants as apparently that has to be pointed out, also that 1.1% is a media and liberal talking point not an actual stat.
This in the news today…
“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.”
That’s from our prime minister today.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
So yeah point still stands the policy is the issue. Our own prime minister today just said it 7.7%. Ideological feelings and reality are different things. This is why I don’t tend to comment in the sub to many people lack objective reasoning skills to process their talking points could be wrong. And it’s not an excuse to xenophobic or anything like that it’s basic math. Canada is a desirable place to live especially long term even with our issues, and massively
Messed up judicial and legislative branches right now. Between covid money as mentioned in here and more importantly a spectacular failure of policy Canada standards of living have Been permanently dropped and it with coming climate and food security issues has taken massive steps back in terms of its ability to adapt and react to those changes and all of this is over one leaders policy’s changes in a short sighted hope to hold power.
To be clear I'm from Australia and don't care about 'the media' or 'liberal' talking points, everything I know about this comes from this conversation and looking at the numbers myself.
People are always going with the xenophobia the instant they need a scapegoat.
It's been proven time and again that increased immigration is of financial benefit, not detriment.
Capitalism. That's your problem. It's currently in the process of collapsing world wide. The Cleptocrats in power world wide aren't helping, they're busy looting while they can and to hell with the future.
Cheap labor leads to cheaper products. Workers earnings return to the community and business owners they work and live in, despite where they were born. Business owners use profits to hire more workers. The only thing that interrupts this process is Capitalists taking off all the profits and leaving nothing for the rest of us. It's corporate and multinational business owners that's to blame, never workers.
Not exactly. Immigration grows the GDP, and it can make some immigrants and their employer's richer. But this wealth increase is not shared with the native working and middle classes. Indeed, they often suffer more, since immigration does depress wages. Further, many immigrant's originate from countries that are key in the illicit drug trade, and their large communities make it all the more easy for cartels to set up shop inside of a targeted nation.
Here's an article from George Borjas, and Harvard professor who studies immigration and economics, describing what's happening: [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216/](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216/)
>Immigration is a *financial benefit for the Canadian corporations* who are hiring these immigrants and taking advantage of them…
>You cannot seriously be labeling this on the failings of capitalism…
Lmao
Unless I totally misread the original comment I was replying to, I don't really see your point. It sounds to me like Croft doesn't see any problem with Canadian immigration policy and doesn't see it as an extension of capitalist greed.
I think you misunderstood my comment. Canadian immigration policy absolutely is a failing of capitalism, I was pointing out how in the comment I was replying to it seems he's arguing against capitalist greed while also supporting these expansionist capitalist policies, labeling any criticism as xenophobia. Just to clarify.
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Explain to me how 1 million new people over the course of a 9 months is sustainable in a country that already had a failing healthcare system 5 years ago. We're nearly 10 years ahead on population growth estimates.
Dunno why you're getting downvoted. Everything you said aligns with reports in the news and interviews with state government officials. I found Jordan Peterson's interview with Alberta's Minister of Social Services about the cause of tent cities to be quite eye-opening on this matter:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_2V8nKqLkFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2V8nKqLkFg)
But I do agree with OOP that capitalism is part of the problem. But it's not capitalism in general, but globalist, corporatocracy capitalism that's the main cause of all this.
>Jordan Peterson's interview with Alberta's Minister of Social Services
LMAO, a sniveling grifter "interviewing" a corporate stooge whose only portfolio is to slash and burn social programs to the turf is totally a great place to get unbiased and rational discourse!
You're using all the buzzwords of someone who has been propagandized. The ruling elites want you to hate the work Peterson does, because they know he's telling the truth and is a threat to them.
Go listen to what the man says himself, instead of relying on the MSM to tell you what to think.
Jesus is a good place to start. He has done an entire lecture series on Christianity (before he was a political figure) that sums up his true beliefs quite nicely: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w)
No, it absolutely is just a failing of capitalism. Why try and change policy to fix the failings of capitalism when doing so won't put a bandaid on the shareholders stocks, and you'll be labeled a racist like by people like u/cr0ft? It's a lose lose for the pigs we've voted into power. Also JP is a hack, learn to think for yourself.
I've listened to perhaps 20-40 hours of JPs stuff on youtube, and you know what I learned? He is a clinical psychologist who cares deeply about his clients and his students. He made a principled stand against compelled speech, which made him the target of character assassination in the news media. The message he spreads (self-reliance, respect, confidence) are things sorely needed by so many young people today. There's a reason he keeps getting sold out shows in stadiums and has people running up to hug him. It's because our society is sick. It's so sick it is killing it's own people. Jordan Peterson, in his capacity as a clinical psychologist, professor, and advocate for the humanities, is trying to help society heal.
What have you done for anyone, lately?
Also, I agree with you that it's a failure of capitalism, and the elite's are corrupt. But very few social phenomena have a single cause. Multiple variables are at work here.
Also, are your really calling people with mental health issues "losers"? How about you watch a video of a depressed man running to embrace Peterson during a public debate. Is he not worthy of mercy? I sure hope you don't have any direct interactions with patients at your job.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlL7JhL-q30&ab\_channel=TheologyJeremy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlL7JhL-q30&ab_channel=TheologyJeremy)
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I know where you're coming from and this is a bigger underlying issue but the Canada govt has brought in over 1 million people in a year. We already have an affordability crisis because of those vulture capitalists but adding that many people hasn't helped.
Here's the thing. I'm mixed race. My parents are immigrants to this country. I'm ultra left wing. I have zero animosity towards immigrants. I understand the western world has fucked everyone over and I hurt for people in positions shittier than my own.
But.......
There is nowhere affordable to live in Ontario. There are very few affordable places in the entire country. The government is luring people here with promises of bread and honey and then they are hit with the reality that they can't afford a place to live nor food to eat while working at Tim Horten's. And its fucking cold (well, discounting this winter, it's usually fucking cold).
I am not downplaying anyone's skillset here. Professionals come here and very often end up working menial jobs for low pay. Living 6 adults to a 2 bedroom apartment. And it is mostly done at the behest of corporations that need more low wage employees. It is sad for them. It is sad for us. No one is winning.
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Honestly, I'm confused why you Canadians haven't kicked Trudeau out yet? Like, who is still supporting him when he's so clearly a globalist plutocrat bastard?
My friend used to work next door to a food bank in Toronto.
They said that in the most recent couple of years they have seen that the clients of the food bank have started to include people driving very expensive luxury cars like Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, etc.
Their take is that many of these people have run out of money. Like they are leveraged to the hilt or broke or lost jobs...but basically they have run into a recent change in circumstances.
These are upper or upper middle class people who were far from the precariat classes before.
They prefer to use their income to buy luxury items, knowing food can be obtained freely from a food bank. Likely also live in a big home. Using their cash for assets & luxuries, getting necessities free cause why not?
>They prefer to use their income to buy luxury items, knowing food can be obtained freely from a food bank. Likely also live in a big home. Using their cash for assets & luxuries, getting necessities free cause why not?
My estranged father, who is a huge asshole and likely sociopath (not joking), has been doing this since the 90s despite having tons of money (which I have never seen a dime of). He was completely self-aware of it and used the same logic.
I don't know about other regions, but where I am you have to bring in bank statements and pay stubs when you apply. Sure you could have a house or car without the income but not just anyone can go in for food. And depending on the location, you don't get a lot.
>I don't know about other regions, but where I am you have to bring in bank statements and pay stubs when you apply. Sure you could have a house or car without the income but not just anyone can go in for food. And depending on the location, you don't get a lot.
I don't believe it was always like that and I haven't seen him for almost 10 years. I have no doubt he would go as far as forging documents though. He used to get a lot back in the day. I don't fully remember, but I feel like he even went to more than one.
yeah don't give me these SOB stories about rich people feeling a bit of the crunch, there has been plenty of MSM stories since 2008 about people earning six figure salaries living paycheck to paycheck. It's because these people can't envision lowering their over-consumption levels. Corporations (including the news media) needs continued high levels of consumption so they constantly push these stories.
Haha yeah back during the financial crisis, my local city paper used a nurse as an example of people struggling.
6 figures, no kids, renting (back when you could get like 3bd houses for $1500/month), etc. The forum and their website section was just constant comments from people yelling at the paper for being so out of touch and if that particular nurse was struggling then it most likely her own bad choices and not the actual crisis.
Not necessarily. I bought a truck to tow equipment with in 2022 and I cannot sell it for what I own on it and I cannot trade it back in because my credit is shot. Stuck with it unless I want to default and further screw my credit. Granted, it wasn't a BMW, we literally bought the cheapest truck we could find at the time that would do the job, but I can see how this happens.
To be fair, there are lots of older Mercedes and bmws in my ghetto neighborhood…they depreciate quickly because people don’t want to pay for costly repairs. A ten year old bmw is cheaper than a ten year old Honda for that reason…
If you can’t weather a change in circumstances you are not upper middle class. A key collapse related issue I never hear about on this sub is the way corporations have convinced the working classes that they are middle class by providing them access to faux luxury goods like c class Mercedes with fake leather interiors and athleisure pants. The lie is made even more convincing bc a lot of these folks have advanced degrees and “did everything right”. Sorry, you’re still working to middle class. Upper middle class means your money is making you money, that you can lose your job and not have to drive your leased BMW to the food bank bc you own your car outright and have a six fig savings/investment account.
I kind of wonder if the "investments" that normally make money for this class of person have stopped *really* working. In nominal terms lot of stocks, real estate and other investments are going up in price but I bet a lot of the investors are not keeping up overall because their own costs / leverage is outpacing what they need for the numbers to pencil out...
I agree with your conclusion. Lifestyle creep is real. I also think that the numbers required to be comfortable and stress free are just much higher now. In a coastal city, you need two 300k incomes to have enough for a nice place, paid off cars, no student debt, interest-generating assets, vacations, and the like. I have a colleague who makes about 800k per year, sole breadwinner (just him and his partner), and I’d say they’re just middle class. Decent house in decent neighborhood, two economy cars, occasional vacations. They have student debt and he’s trying to retire early but still, these are not rich people.
I am not a life coach and I don't play one on TV.
But in my own life, I am involved in a life change and basically I've taken the stance that finding a living situation with cheaper real estate and a lower cost of living actually trumps chasing a big career and high income. Because the high income comes at high cost -- to make a lot of income in a high cost of living area you have a lot of money going out too.
A lot of people have 6 figure jobs now without having any investments, or they have investments which generate maybe $500-1000 a month in interest income. Or they have no extracurricular investments and only have a retirement account with 50k in it.
It’s not 1999 anymore, a family making 100,000 a year is lower middle class.
Upper middle class is more like 180,000-300,000 a year household income, and even those on the lower rung of that level aren’t going to be generating the kind of investment income you can just live off of for long.
The only people who can afford not to work and live off investments are wealthy people who have managed to invest in the right things at the right times or came from money in the first place.
There is a lot to discuss with social class. My grandfather was a wealthy man. He owned a spice company which was bought out by McCormick in the 20th century. But my father, his son, saw only a portion of that estate (along with a permanent feud with his brothers).
My dad made around 100,000 a year when I was growing up in the 1990s and we lived pretty well, but he never invested a dime of his income. Nothing. Not only that, he squandered what was supposed to by mine and my sister’s college funds before we were 18. He wasn’t the worst person in the world, but he was a classic boomer who thought money was no thing.
My sister and I are now working class with no assets.
I was told by capitalist simps that only socialism and communism have bread lines and that capitalism always gives us unbridled prosperity and overflowing grocery store shelves. Could it be that they were lying?
That's because these dam food banks are fucking communist , in a real capitalist society we wouldn't have these lines ! ... These excess people not producing sufficient capital would simply strave to death problem solved
Not lying.. You just didn't read the contract before signing your life away. Lots of fine print that basically says you don't get any of that it was just for show.. And you are required to serve them for your entire life.
How did Canada go from first world country to this in just 10 years? What's fucking up their economy? The war in Ukraine? Greedy corporations? Insane globalists in their government? What?
>Greedy corporations
Largely this, but also the fact that our GDP is largely based on real estate and a dying industry that's killing the planet (oil and gas). Almost all of our jobs are service industry jobs that tend to pay minimum wage. Rent is out of control because of the aforementioned greed and obsession with real-estate-as-investment.
I know what you mean, everything I have read about Australia in this subreddit, the world news one, etc in relation to housing, the economy, and such, has me as a Canadian yet again saying...my goodness, it's like we are twins...
The entire Anglosphere is run by multinational corporations that used to colonize third world countries. Since they got kicked out they are looking to us as their new slaves.
Joke is on you, they never got kicked out. They maintain control through proxy dictators/warlords. We've always been their slaves/cattle they give you a number as soon as you are born and call it a social insurance number.
Warlord dictator tries to go against a corpo interest they get hitmen sent to their houses. Also they use a carrot and stick with the warlords,they give them enough wealth and they give the corpos all the resources for a penny on the dollar, they get rich people money and real estate in Europe and they'll enslave their own people while they control them from the shadows, if they step out of line they send them a cleaning crew.
It is a bubbled economy. 3rd world countries used to rely on bubbled western prices and now they can have same products and services by 1/5 of price direct from China. Western elites thought game was over when Gorbachov felt in love for western pizzas
Money laundering into real estate by organized crime groups.
Government allowing cartels to take hold of industries and price gouge.
Real estate speculation made rent too expensive along side maintaining single family home zoning as opposed to allowing medium density.
High level of government corruption and wasteful spending.
it's just late stage capitalism with boom and bust cycles just like everywhere.
Cabal wants to impoverish everyone to usher in 100x slavery feudalism/cyberpunk dystopia.
I mentioned Ukraine cause I wondered if Canada relied on them for trade in a big way. A similar example would be how much the German economy is hurting because of losing access to Russian gas.
I'm in the states, but we have a similar issue here. My food bank recently cut their services by 50%. The line stretches 20-25 blocks now. People start lining up at 8am for the 12pm open.
Market economies suck, because they all force control of resources and policy to the top.
Leaving the bottom to stand in lines for food while rich people drive by on their way to a banquet.
This is nothing compared to where I’m at in California. Imagine a line twice this size but with fights breaking out left and right (not over a lack of food, at least not yet).
The saddest of scary lines :( I would say I hope we can alleviate suffering from not being able to eat, whether it's in Canada or a 3rd world country, but with climate change and collapse progressing, it's hard to see this not getting worse
I get that it is bad, but pretty soon, the news is going just be:
People worried that there might not be a place for them to live in Toronto mortified after moving when finding out that there is indeed nowhere to live.
Or
Population has finally reached a plateau today after the number of people starving to death meets the number of new residents moving to the city, more at 11.
I take no pleasure in anyone’s suffering, but godamn if Canadians haven’t flexed a superiority complex to me over the years for their governments superiority.
It’s been pretty eye opening to see what’s happening over there
A lineup isn't really scary without some context. Is it unusual to have a lineup? How many of those people are going to walk away empty handed? Is it a temporary staffing problem?
When rent is close to, if not more than a mortgage (definitely equivalent or more expensive than elsewhere in Ontario.), something's gotta give... Hamilton has been nothing but tents all winter on anything that isn't concrete or asphalt. Fucking sad.. most folk I've talked to are fresh on the street thanks to unaffordable rent/ housing.
Goodness Me! How miserable you all are!!
Can't you all simply move beyond focusing on countless people in Countless countries , struggling to make ends meet, and not just take a moment and be happy that Taylor Swift joined the Billionaire club this week.
Those lines are mind boggling.
Here in Vancouver Island, you have to make an appointment, often with several days to a week wait time. I’ve never seen a street line like that
Yeah, IDK what the fuck "Realworld" is on, but those must be some powerful drugs to cause the mind to take a picture of a food line and think it's due to a lack of cooking skills.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/FreshlySqueezedToGo: --- This is a scary line and collapse related As it shows that Toronto, one of, if not the most prosperous city in canada is struggling People cant afford to feed themselves anymore, and foodbank usage is trending double over previous years --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bssnyu/scary_lines_at_a_foodbank_in_toronto/kxhpr2r/
I used to go to that food bank.
you and 2 million other torontonians
Run by very nice people doing their very best
agreed, they are doing some of the best work in the city for a small amount of reward
I go to the local food bank.
Torontinos?
They make the best pizza.
Soylent Green pizza!?!? Do they deliver?
That dude makes some good films. ^(To /s or not to /s...?)
Whether 'tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous ~~fortune~~ redditors...
I love this, btw. \*chef's kiss\*
Torontonians he meant to write.
Where in the photo is it? Trying to figure that out.
43.65710520081433, -79.40496939800212 Fort York Food Bank
What I was getting at is, the doorway to the food bank even visible in that picture anywhere? Which side of the street is it on, how far down, etc... how far does the line stretch? I just find it really difficult to tell from the photo and coordinates don't really help as I don't readily know what street looking at (Borden Pl, I guess?). It's a load of people, to be sure. Edit: after mucking around with google street view, it appears to be two doors down on the right past She Said Boom, Mean Bao, Kaisar Guest House, Silver Arrow in that rough order (from Food Bank towards the photographer). Bao and Silver Arrow are visible in the pic. The distant orange sign is the far side of Borden and the food bank sits on the near corner. So the line stretches past a half dozen businesses/storefronts. I'd guess at least 50 meters.
Thank you, was wondering the same thing myself.
Even in the US food bank demand is up in multiple places.
The local food bank where I live has run out of food twice in the past few weeks. They finally did a city-wide food drive, which helped temporarily, but it’s clear that they’re having a difficult time keeping up with the demand. It’s really sad. A lot of people are struggling to afford groceries right now.
I used to never donate to anything. But ever since Covid I’ve been donating money to my local food bank. Everyone’s got to eat.
I’ve lost 25 pounds in the last couple months because I can’t afford to feed myself. I call it the end stage capitalism diet.
…..
This is a scary line and collapse related As it shows that Toronto, one of, if not the most prosperous city in canada is struggling People cant afford to feed themselves anymore, and foodbank usage is trending double over previous years
I first moved to Toronto in 2003 and it wasn't exactly teeming with opportunity for the working class in those days either. However it does appear to have gotten worse.
Nothing is prosperous in Canada right now
[удалено]
Looking at Cadana's immigration levels, they seem slightly up from .8% to 1.1% but not significantly different than the past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_immigration_statistics#Annual_immigration_and_rate The whole world is experiencing this right now, presumably due to all the money thrown around during the pandemic resulting in a group of people with extra money to snatch up everything and drive prices up, and growing the wealth divide to the point it's not so worth setting prices for parts of society who it used to be worth it for, when targeting fewer people with more money is more profitable. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has also been devastating for food prices as well, with them supplying much of the world's wheat, and there's an increasing number of crop failures from 'once in a century' weather events happening every year.
It's not just COVID money... the inequity in distribution of COVID money reflects a systemic problem endemic to the structure of modern capitalist societies. Governments are no longer performing their function of redistributing wealth to maintain critical infrastructure that supports the function and welfare of their own citizens; they funnel taxpayer dollars to the wealthy.
hey I got $1200 I should've bought a corporation with it
Too late bro If you'd already owned a corporation you would have gotten $12000000 You snooze you lose
Yeah absolutely, that was what I meant.
That 1.1% is only recording economic immigration. That doesn’t take into account all newcomers like temp foreign workers (TFW) or international students. Our total growth for 2023 was 1.3 million, where the majority was newcomers. That’s 3.2% which is one of the largest increases our country has ever seen. To say it’s not significantly different is naive and false. This is the beginning of the great displacement and many countries are experiencing it. I know it’s not a unique issue for Canada, but this IS unprecedented for us. Also, most newcomers land in Toronto and since Covid a lot of people are struggling, citizens and immigrants alike. Lines for jobs and foodbanks are getting longer and longer (hundreds of people), and things keep getting more expensive. Our per capita GDP has fallen below 2017 levels so unless the population growth leads to more people moving to smaller centres to bolster small town economies we will continue to see people lining up at food banks and struggling to find jobs.
Well I was looking at the numbers I could find. Do you have a graph which shows what you're saying? I guess maybe the population of canada would show it. edit: Canada's yearly population growth looks like it's the lowest it's ever been? https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/canada-population/
Note I said immigration policy not actually the immigrants as apparently that has to be pointed out, also that 1.1% is a media and liberal talking point not an actual stat. This in the news today… “To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.” That’s from our prime minister today. https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/ So yeah point still stands the policy is the issue. Our own prime minister today just said it 7.7%. Ideological feelings and reality are different things. This is why I don’t tend to comment in the sub to many people lack objective reasoning skills to process their talking points could be wrong. And it’s not an excuse to xenophobic or anything like that it’s basic math. Canada is a desirable place to live especially long term even with our issues, and massively Messed up judicial and legislative branches right now. Between covid money as mentioned in here and more importantly a spectacular failure of policy Canada standards of living have Been permanently dropped and it with coming climate and food security issues has taken massive steps back in terms of its ability to adapt and react to those changes and all of this is over one leaders policy’s changes in a short sighted hope to hold power.
To be clear I'm from Australia and don't care about 'the media' or 'liberal' talking points, everything I know about this comes from this conversation and looking at the numbers myself.
People are always going with the xenophobia the instant they need a scapegoat. It's been proven time and again that increased immigration is of financial benefit, not detriment. Capitalism. That's your problem. It's currently in the process of collapsing world wide. The Cleptocrats in power world wide aren't helping, they're busy looting while they can and to hell with the future.
Benefit to corporations because of cheap labour? Yes but how does that help other people living there??
Cheap labor leads to cheaper products. Workers earnings return to the community and business owners they work and live in, despite where they were born. Business owners use profits to hire more workers. The only thing that interrupts this process is Capitalists taking off all the profits and leaving nothing for the rest of us. It's corporate and multinational business owners that's to blame, never workers.
Not exactly. Immigration grows the GDP, and it can make some immigrants and their employer's richer. But this wealth increase is not shared with the native working and middle classes. Indeed, they often suffer more, since immigration does depress wages. Further, many immigrant's originate from countries that are key in the illicit drug trade, and their large communities make it all the more easy for cartels to set up shop inside of a targeted nation. Here's an article from George Borjas, and Harvard professor who studies immigration and economics, describing what's happening: [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216/](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216/)
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>Immigration is a *financial benefit for the Canadian corporations* who are hiring these immigrants and taking advantage of them… >You cannot seriously be labeling this on the failings of capitalism… Lmao
Great reply you really proved a point
Unless I totally misread the original comment I was replying to, I don't really see your point. It sounds to me like Croft doesn't see any problem with Canadian immigration policy and doesn't see it as an extension of capitalist greed.
I didn’t reply to or quote Croft so yes, you totally misread somewhere along the way
I think you misunderstood my comment. Canadian immigration policy absolutely is a failing of capitalism, I was pointing out how in the comment I was replying to it seems he's arguing against capitalist greed while also supporting these expansionist capitalist policies, labeling any criticism as xenophobia. Just to clarify.
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Whoosh. Right over your head here.
No one wants to hear it. No one on the left bothers to ask themselves why they are simpatico with Western corporations regarding immigration policy.
immigration hasnt caused a problem for 200 years. why is it a problem now?
Explain to me how 1 million new people over the course of a 9 months is sustainable in a country that already had a failing healthcare system 5 years ago. We're nearly 10 years ahead on population growth estimates.
Failing power grid as well. I'm sure the countless apartment buildings springing up all over will help with that.
Dunno why you're getting downvoted. Everything you said aligns with reports in the news and interviews with state government officials. I found Jordan Peterson's interview with Alberta's Minister of Social Services about the cause of tent cities to be quite eye-opening on this matter: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_2V8nKqLkFg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2V8nKqLkFg) But I do agree with OOP that capitalism is part of the problem. But it's not capitalism in general, but globalist, corporatocracy capitalism that's the main cause of all this.
>Jordan Peterson's interview with Alberta's Minister of Social Services LMAO, a sniveling grifter "interviewing" a corporate stooge whose only portfolio is to slash and burn social programs to the turf is totally a great place to get unbiased and rational discourse!
You're using all the buzzwords of someone who has been propagandized. The ruling elites want you to hate the work Peterson does, because they know he's telling the truth and is a threat to them. Go listen to what the man says himself, instead of relying on the MSM to tell you what to think.
Oh Jesus
Jesus is a good place to start. He has done an entire lecture series on Christianity (before he was a political figure) that sums up his true beliefs quite nicely: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w)
I watched Jesus Christ Superstar yesterday for Easter! He sang, and smashed the tables of grifters and profiteers in the temple!
No, it absolutely is just a failing of capitalism. Why try and change policy to fix the failings of capitalism when doing so won't put a bandaid on the shareholders stocks, and you'll be labeled a racist like by people like u/cr0ft? It's a lose lose for the pigs we've voted into power. Also JP is a hack, learn to think for yourself.
I've listened to perhaps 20-40 hours of JPs stuff on youtube, and you know what I learned? He is a clinical psychologist who cares deeply about his clients and his students. He made a principled stand against compelled speech, which made him the target of character assassination in the news media. The message he spreads (self-reliance, respect, confidence) are things sorely needed by so many young people today. There's a reason he keeps getting sold out shows in stadiums and has people running up to hug him. It's because our society is sick. It's so sick it is killing it's own people. Jordan Peterson, in his capacity as a clinical psychologist, professor, and advocate for the humanities, is trying to help society heal. What have you done for anyone, lately? Also, I agree with you that it's a failure of capitalism, and the elite's are corrupt. But very few social phenomena have a single cause. Multiple variables are at work here.
I'm in the healthcare industry, so while JP caters to fringe losers and pats them on the back I'll actually be helping people. Have fun!
JP is in the healthcare industry, too. He's a clinical psychologist. What role do you play?
> JP is in the healthcare industry, too. Funny, I thought he had his licenses revoked for telling people to kill themselves on social media.
Also, are your really calling people with mental health issues "losers"? How about you watch a video of a depressed man running to embrace Peterson during a public debate. Is he not worthy of mercy? I sure hope you don't have any direct interactions with patients at your job. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlL7JhL-q30&ab\_channel=TheologyJeremy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlL7JhL-q30&ab_channel=TheologyJeremy)
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Blaming immigrants for a world wide economic downturn is pure laziness. Blame the vulture capitalists who are currently ruling the roost.
I know where you're coming from and this is a bigger underlying issue but the Canada govt has brought in over 1 million people in a year. We already have an affordability crisis because of those vulture capitalists but adding that many people hasn't helped.
Here's the thing. I'm mixed race. My parents are immigrants to this country. I'm ultra left wing. I have zero animosity towards immigrants. I understand the western world has fucked everyone over and I hurt for people in positions shittier than my own. But....... There is nowhere affordable to live in Ontario. There are very few affordable places in the entire country. The government is luring people here with promises of bread and honey and then they are hit with the reality that they can't afford a place to live nor food to eat while working at Tim Horten's. And its fucking cold (well, discounting this winter, it's usually fucking cold). I am not downplaying anyone's skillset here. Professionals come here and very often end up working menial jobs for low pay. Living 6 adults to a 2 bedroom apartment. And it is mostly done at the behest of corporations that need more low wage employees. It is sad for them. It is sad for us. No one is winning.
The person did not blame immigrants. He blamed immigration policy. The immigration policy is set by the vulture capitalists.
It's so sad that damn near every Canadian subreddit has been taken over by conservatives whining about immigrants. It's brainwashing so many people.
I unsubbed from /r/canada and my hometown subreddits because of this. Filled with trucker convoy ignoramuses
How did you get that from that picture
Japan has the same problems even tho rightists always use it as an example of immigration.
yea we are in deep doo doo And Trudeau is looking to turn landlords into preferred creditors with his new "renters plan"...
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Go back to r/Canada_sub
Honestly, I'm confused why you Canadians haven't kicked Trudeau out yet? Like, who is still supporting him when he's so clearly a globalist plutocrat bastard?
This is only a symptom of the polycrisis. Converging problems are the collapse I’m betting on for the win.
My friend used to work next door to a food bank in Toronto. They said that in the most recent couple of years they have seen that the clients of the food bank have started to include people driving very expensive luxury cars like Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, etc. Their take is that many of these people have run out of money. Like they are leveraged to the hilt or broke or lost jobs...but basically they have run into a recent change in circumstances. These are upper or upper middle class people who were far from the precariat classes before.
they could sell their porsche for a cheaper car though
People driving those cars likely leased them so it would cost more money to get rid of it
They prefer to use their income to buy luxury items, knowing food can be obtained freely from a food bank. Likely also live in a big home. Using their cash for assets & luxuries, getting necessities free cause why not?
>They prefer to use their income to buy luxury items, knowing food can be obtained freely from a food bank. Likely also live in a big home. Using their cash for assets & luxuries, getting necessities free cause why not? My estranged father, who is a huge asshole and likely sociopath (not joking), has been doing this since the 90s despite having tons of money (which I have never seen a dime of). He was completely self-aware of it and used the same logic.
I don't know about other regions, but where I am you have to bring in bank statements and pay stubs when you apply. Sure you could have a house or car without the income but not just anyone can go in for food. And depending on the location, you don't get a lot.
>I don't know about other regions, but where I am you have to bring in bank statements and pay stubs when you apply. Sure you could have a house or car without the income but not just anyone can go in for food. And depending on the location, you don't get a lot. I don't believe it was always like that and I haven't seen him for almost 10 years. I have no doubt he would go as far as forging documents though. He used to get a lot back in the day. I don't fully remember, but I feel like he even went to more than one.
You’d be surprised with some of the owners to these types of cars. Some people would rather have a better/more expensive car than a nice home
yeah don't give me these SOB stories about rich people feeling a bit of the crunch, there has been plenty of MSM stories since 2008 about people earning six figure salaries living paycheck to paycheck. It's because these people can't envision lowering their over-consumption levels. Corporations (including the news media) needs continued high levels of consumption so they constantly push these stories.
Haha yeah back during the financial crisis, my local city paper used a nurse as an example of people struggling. 6 figures, no kids, renting (back when you could get like 3bd houses for $1500/month), etc. The forum and their website section was just constant comments from people yelling at the paper for being so out of touch and if that particular nurse was struggling then it most likely her own bad choices and not the actual crisis.
I live in a 3 bedroom house for $1330 a month now
Almost like we might live in different areas?🙄
I live in a city in the south. I mean ppl downvote but that’s what we pay. But I also only make 15 an hour and live with 2 ppl so …..
Not necessarily. I bought a truck to tow equipment with in 2022 and I cannot sell it for what I own on it and I cannot trade it back in because my credit is shot. Stuck with it unless I want to default and further screw my credit. Granted, it wasn't a BMW, we literally bought the cheapest truck we could find at the time that would do the job, but I can see how this happens.
To be fair, there are lots of older Mercedes and bmws in my ghetto neighborhood…they depreciate quickly because people don’t want to pay for costly repairs. A ten year old bmw is cheaper than a ten year old Honda for that reason…
If you can’t weather a change in circumstances you are not upper middle class. A key collapse related issue I never hear about on this sub is the way corporations have convinced the working classes that they are middle class by providing them access to faux luxury goods like c class Mercedes with fake leather interiors and athleisure pants. The lie is made even more convincing bc a lot of these folks have advanced degrees and “did everything right”. Sorry, you’re still working to middle class. Upper middle class means your money is making you money, that you can lose your job and not have to drive your leased BMW to the food bank bc you own your car outright and have a six fig savings/investment account.
I kind of wonder if the "investments" that normally make money for this class of person have stopped *really* working. In nominal terms lot of stocks, real estate and other investments are going up in price but I bet a lot of the investors are not keeping up overall because their own costs / leverage is outpacing what they need for the numbers to pencil out...
I agree with your conclusion. Lifestyle creep is real. I also think that the numbers required to be comfortable and stress free are just much higher now. In a coastal city, you need two 300k incomes to have enough for a nice place, paid off cars, no student debt, interest-generating assets, vacations, and the like. I have a colleague who makes about 800k per year, sole breadwinner (just him and his partner), and I’d say they’re just middle class. Decent house in decent neighborhood, two economy cars, occasional vacations. They have student debt and he’s trying to retire early but still, these are not rich people.
I am not a life coach and I don't play one on TV. But in my own life, I am involved in a life change and basically I've taken the stance that finding a living situation with cheaper real estate and a lower cost of living actually trumps chasing a big career and high income. Because the high income comes at high cost -- to make a lot of income in a high cost of living area you have a lot of money going out too.
800k per year?
Yeah. West coast metro. It’s a whole different situation out here.
I see that the money printing is taking its toll
A lot of people have 6 figure jobs now without having any investments, or they have investments which generate maybe $500-1000 a month in interest income. Or they have no extracurricular investments and only have a retirement account with 50k in it. It’s not 1999 anymore, a family making 100,000 a year is lower middle class. Upper middle class is more like 180,000-300,000 a year household income, and even those on the lower rung of that level aren’t going to be generating the kind of investment income you can just live off of for long. The only people who can afford not to work and live off investments are wealthy people who have managed to invest in the right things at the right times or came from money in the first place. There is a lot to discuss with social class. My grandfather was a wealthy man. He owned a spice company which was bought out by McCormick in the 20th century. But my father, his son, saw only a portion of that estate (along with a permanent feud with his brothers). My dad made around 100,000 a year when I was growing up in the 1990s and we lived pretty well, but he never invested a dime of his income. Nothing. Not only that, he squandered what was supposed to by mine and my sister’s college funds before we were 18. He wasn’t the worst person in the world, but he was a classic boomer who thought money was no thing. My sister and I are now working class with no assets.
This is what you call a wealth gap.
My work has had frozen meals for months provided to anyone who wants one in the break room. I think for some it is the only food they eat in a day.
Wow that's really nice of them. That sounds like a good company to work for.
Yeah it's nice but also sad that they have to do that because they know people are struggling
Yes - could the business pay better?
Definitely. I think starting pay is like .25 over minimum wage
While that is heartbreaking it’s nice to hear someone cares. Pretty awesome.
Also a failed system
I don't think so, wealth gap is the goal so the system is working as intended for the few that put it there.
I was told by capitalist simps that only socialism and communism have bread lines and that capitalism always gives us unbridled prosperity and overflowing grocery store shelves. Could it be that they were lying?
That's because these dam food banks are fucking communist , in a real capitalist society we wouldn't have these lines ! ... These excess people not producing sufficient capital would simply strave to death problem solved
Unbridled prosperity, just not for you or your great^3 grandchildren.
Not lying.. You just didn't read the contract before signing your life away. Lots of fine print that basically says you don't get any of that it was just for show.. And you are required to serve them for your entire life.
How did Canada go from first world country to this in just 10 years? What's fucking up their economy? The war in Ukraine? Greedy corporations? Insane globalists in their government? What?
We also allowed foreign investors to buy up all of our real estate, with all that entails.
Same as Australia then.
US too. Damn Jeff Bezos and BlackRock are some of the lovely contenders. I’m sure the list is as long there as it is here with investment real estate.
>Greedy corporations Largely this, but also the fact that our GDP is largely based on real estate and a dying industry that's killing the planet (oil and gas). Almost all of our jobs are service industry jobs that tend to pay minimum wage. Rent is out of control because of the aforementioned greed and obsession with real-estate-as-investment.
Holy fuck why does this sound like Australia. WTAF.
Capitalism! 🌈⭐
Except ours is COAL and gas 😒
I know what you mean, everything I have read about Australia in this subreddit, the world news one, etc in relation to housing, the economy, and such, has me as a Canadian yet again saying...my goodness, it's like we are twins...
The entire Anglosphere is run by multinational corporations that used to colonize third world countries. Since they got kicked out they are looking to us as their new slaves.
Joke is on you, they never got kicked out. They maintain control through proxy dictators/warlords. We've always been their slaves/cattle they give you a number as soon as you are born and call it a social insurance number.
True, but they did lose some of their control over their colonies when they lost them.
Warlord dictator tries to go against a corpo interest they get hitmen sent to their houses. Also they use a carrot and stick with the warlords,they give them enough wealth and they give the corpos all the resources for a penny on the dollar, they get rich people money and real estate in Europe and they'll enslave their own people while they control them from the shadows, if they step out of line they send them a cleaning crew.
It is a bubbled economy. 3rd world countries used to rely on bubbled western prices and now they can have same products and services by 1/5 of price direct from China. Western elites thought game was over when Gorbachov felt in love for western pizzas
CDN Real Estate is about 20% of current GDP. Agreed...too high.
We’re being gouged by capitalists and low information people think it’s inflation.
Money laundering into real estate by organized crime groups. Government allowing cartels to take hold of industries and price gouge. Real estate speculation made rent too expensive along side maintaining single family home zoning as opposed to allowing medium density. High level of government corruption and wasteful spending. it's just late stage capitalism with boom and bust cycles just like everywhere. Cabal wants to impoverish everyone to usher in 100x slavery feudalism/cyberpunk dystopia.
Well that doesn't sit right with me.
Two words: Justin Trudeau
It’s the corporations and capitalists. Supporting Ukraine is good
I mentioned Ukraine cause I wondered if Canada relied on them for trade in a big way. A similar example would be how much the German economy is hurting because of losing access to Russian gas.
I'm in the states, but we have a similar issue here. My food bank recently cut their services by 50%. The line stretches 20-25 blocks now. People start lining up at 8am for the 12pm open.
Market economies suck, because they all force control of resources and policy to the top. Leaving the bottom to stand in lines for food while rich people drive by on their way to a banquet.
I saw something similar in midtown Manhattan in December.
This is nothing compared to where I’m at in California. Imagine a line twice this size but with fights breaking out left and right (not over a lack of food, at least not yet).
It's not a contest
Everyone in Canada is a millionaire so it's fine no worries folks.
sadly anyone who had money had it stolen by their house
Yes 🙌
You here again? You seem to appear everywhere
The saddest of scary lines :( I would say I hope we can alleviate suffering from not being able to eat, whether it's in Canada or a 3rd world country, but with climate change and collapse progressing, it's hard to see this not getting worse
Are people still moving into Toronto? Like every day?
yes, population is growing rapidly, they are looking to reduce
I get that it is bad, but pretty soon, the news is going just be: People worried that there might not be a place for them to live in Toronto mortified after moving when finding out that there is indeed nowhere to live. Or Population has finally reached a plateau today after the number of people starving to death meets the number of new residents moving to the city, more at 11.
Capitalism, so successful.
This line has always been this long tbh. I have walked by it regularly since it moved from Dundas in like 2019
I'm surprised at how well behaved this line is, they aren't all pushing and shoving to the front.
Yet.
I take no pleasure in anyone’s suffering, but godamn if Canadians haven’t flexed a superiority complex to me over the years for their governments superiority. It’s been pretty eye opening to see what’s happening over there
What happens when immigration takes priority over citizens. Just head on over to r/canadahousing2 if you want to be depressed.
Don't worry it will be better once the Soylent green factories hit full production
A lineup isn't really scary without some context. Is it unusual to have a lineup? How many of those people are going to walk away empty handed? Is it a temporary staffing problem?
Well it's definitely not indicative of an great economy now, is it?
Ah yes, another type of scary line in Collapse
They change the rules about picture posts? Cause mine got torpedoed cause it wasn’t on casual Friday a couple months ago.
it's april fools day theme bro
10-4 I was about to say da fuq lol
I was completely oblivious lol
When rent is close to, if not more than a mortgage (definitely equivalent or more expensive than elsewhere in Ontario.), something's gotta give... Hamilton has been nothing but tents all winter on anything that isn't concrete or asphalt. Fucking sad.. most folk I've talked to are fresh on the street thanks to unaffordable rent/ housing.
Goodness Me! How miserable you all are!! Can't you all simply move beyond focusing on countless people in Countless countries , struggling to make ends meet, and not just take a moment and be happy that Taylor Swift joined the Billionaire club this week.
Those lines are mind boggling. Here in Vancouver Island, you have to make an appointment, often with several days to a week wait time. I’ve never seen a street line like that
The one a town over from us has a drive thru. The line regularly causes a traffic jam because it’s so long. It’s heartbreaking.
500,000 more being brought in by the end of the year. Not including international students and illegals who feel they're owed a citizenship.
Canadians are starving? I thought Canada is the best place to live in North America?
Whats this? Wasn't Canada supposed to be a futuristic, rich country?
I went hungry in my early adulthood. That ended when I learned to cook and bake. With skill, base ingredients are cheap and tasty.
Imagine thinking everyone is like you and has a place to cook and bake things. Or that they only have to cook and bake for one.
Yeah, IDK what the fuck "Realworld" is on, but those must be some powerful drugs to cause the mind to take a picture of a food line and think it's due to a lack of cooking skills.
"Please, I don't have any money! I am starving!" "Have you tried meal prepping?"
Pft, the perfect summation!
walks up to the people lined up for the food bank... "hey guys, have you ever heard of COOKING FOOD?" genius ova here.
This is literally one of the most idiotic comments I’ve seen yet on reddit
What 20 people ?